From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #13 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Friday, April 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 013 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:25 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Subjects for discussion Greetings. NICK wrote: >Regarding the ongoing discussion about possible alliance between DG and > the 'ghoul nation'. >Anyone whose had to blow the vile bastards away in any great quantity >over the years will agree its a dubious proposition at best. Amen. I'd like to remind to all field agents and case officers out there that the Mythos has many subtle ways to come and get you. You can't do commerce with the devil and get out of it clean. End of message. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:08:33 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: DG : The Ghoul Issue Perhaps you have noticed a split, a division in the ranks, a subtle disagreement. On one side we have a pack of bleeding heart liberals who want to make nice and "respect" the "alternative" culture of the Ghoul nation. On the other side, we have a mob of genocidal racists who would enjoy nothing more than to take the new explosive pellet flamethrowers to every cemetary in the nation, and burn 'em all. My personal feelings in this matter support the position that will cause the most property damage and more importantly, the maximum possible body count. As always Karnage is King. This solidly rational viewpoint may not be shared by more squeamish agents who lack the appropriate firepower. In any event we cannot have rogue "lone-wolf" agents violating agreements made by DG in good faith with those untrustworthy, no-good cannibal ghouls. It just wouldn't look good. It might also lead to a covert war that DG cannot win. The point is, DG must come up with a coherent policy toward ghouls. Obviously overt hostile actions are unwarranted and counter-productive. The resources to pursue an active program of elimination are simply not available to DG. I propose the following: 1) Ghouls are to be handled on an individual basis. Some may serve as friendlies, but never as agents (sorry Nancy, but you are *so* fired). 2) Ghouls that violate laws not related to their diet are to be handled in the most extreme manner possible, as an example to others. This policy is to be made known to ghouls in contact with DG. 3) All contact with ghouls is to be documented and authorized by A-cell. 4) DG Agents that violate this policy will be subjected to "administrative action." This policy is essentially a "watch and wait" strategy that will maximize the effectiveness of our minimal resources. If good relations are maintained with the ghouls, we can stop renegade ghouls before they act by obtaining intelligence as to their actions. Some will note that this policy resembles racial control actions taken in Nazi Germany in order to subjugate the Jews. This is deliberate. By implementing this policy DG will be engaging in a program of racial control. Hopefully the lessons of the Karotechia and the Third Reich will prevent any rash acts of genocide or blatant racist attitudes. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "They're everywhere! They're everywhere!" - Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:46:43 EDT From: Pagan Art Subject: DG: About the Ghouls... I'm telling you guys, shelve this discussion and wait for DG: Countdown, it'll all be covered.... Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: DG : a conversation with Stephan Alzis CAST OF CHARACTERS: The Man in Black: (mib) Darryl Montgomery: (Darryl) Stephan Alzis: (N.) TRANSSCRIPT: (mib): "So, we've decided that the 7th Generation is to be terminated from within the ranks to the Fate. But that leaves just one question: What do you want?" (N.): "Let's leave that up in the air for now..." (mib): (long pause) "You're Nyarlathotep aren't you?" (N.): "No." (mib): "Sure you are!" (N.): (curtly) "No, I am not." (mib): "You are so! Quit playin' wit' me man." (N.): "Look, I am *NOT* Nyarlathotep alright. How many times do I have to say it?" (mib): (to Darryl) "You know, he sounds just like Nyarlathotep." (Darryl): "Who?" (N.): "I do not sound like Nyarlathotep!" (mib): "That's just what Nyarlathotep would say." (N.): "Well what about you? You're the guy advancing all that fringe science and other technological wonders." (mib): "Yeah, but I don't have a cult of insane sorcerers who worship me and call me Nyarlathotep, now do I?" (N.): "Well, yeah.." (mib): "And you don't see me coming back from the dead do you?" (N.): "Well, yeah..." (mib): "Then you admit it. You're the mailman, mighty messenger, FedExing Joy to Yuggoth." (N.): "I am not." (mib): "Crawl for me like the chaos you are, c'mon Crawl for the mib." (N.): "No." (mib): "Well, would you consider going postal for me?" (N.): "Believe me, I've been considering it for a while now." (Darryl): "Who is this Nyarlathotep guy anyway?" (mib): "Don't worry about it." (N.): "Don't you have some 1968 quarters to track or something?" (Darryl): "No." (N.): "Oh, all right then." (mib): "Don't you have some whims of Azathoth to obey or something?" (N.): "No." (mib): "Oh, all right then." (mib): "Say, I loved that thing with the mountain of the black wind. When are you going to appear there again?" (N.): "Thank you... Uh, I mean, that wasn't me." (mib): "It wasn't? Then I thought it sucked. I was just being polite on the off chance that you were Nyarlathotep." (N.): "It DID NOT SUCK! Uh, I mean, you know, How would I know because I wasn't there." (mib): "Yeah, sure, whatever. One thing I've always wanted to know: Why a fat chinese bitch? That one always got to me. Tell me, do you still cross dress?" (N.): "I AM NOT NYARLATHOTEP! I AM NOT! *I* *AM* *NOT*!" (mib): "Do you cross dress because you're gay?" (N.): "I am not gay either!" (mib): "huh huh, stupid gay god." (N.): "I think that I will leave now." (mib): "You're attracted to me aren't you?" (N.): "Not in this lifetime." (mib): "No, it's OK, really. It's kinda flattering in a queasy sort of way." (N.): "Look, I am not Nyarlathotep and neither am I gay." (mib): "Are too." (N.): "AM Not!" (mib): "Are too." (N.): "ARRRGH!" (vanishes in a puff of smoke) (mib): "Gee, I never thought Nyarlathotep could be so touchy." TRANSCRIPT ENDS The Man in Black is : coming only to mock. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "It's Big Gay Al's Big Gay animal shelter!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:59:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jose Burgos Subject: Re: DG: DG : X-cell > X-cell is unusual in that only the contact person knows (vaguely) about > the existence of DG. This is due to the close but unofficial connection > that the members have with Majestic-12. The attention of MJ-12 has caused > X-cell to be extremely paranoid about the paranormal and conspiracies such > as DG. All three members of X-cell are top FBI agents, one is an Assistant > Director. > > X-cell conducts investigations that the FBI has determined to be "too > weird" for normal agents, and has accumulated quite a large backlog of > files in their basement office. > > X-cell consists of : > > Xerxes : FBI Assistant Director W. S. > > Xandra : FBI Special agent, also a M.D. and M.E. > > Xavier : FBI Special agent, Oxford educated Psychologist, formerly > assigned to the violent crimes division. I guess I'd better hurry up and stake claim to a cell, since there are only 25... 'er, 24 left (I assume that A cell is taken). Is it wise to self-assign cells openly on the list? What happens when other Keepers/players subscribe (or for that matter if I too like the cool sounding "X" cell [wow, sounds reminiscent of the movie "Reservoir Dogs"--"why do I have to be Mr. Pink? Why cant I be Mr. Black?])? I guess assigning cells does make the "in-character" portion of this list easier. Any ideas? Jose burgos_j@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:33:57 -0400 From: Duran Goodyear Subject: Re: DG: DG : X-cell While I really enjoy hearing about the cells that we as keepers make up, I think it should be said that these cell declarations are in no way meant to limit the way any individual keepers want to set up their campaign, and or their PC's Cell. I think that you should look at these as potential NPC's. Though... as I say, you can use them any way you want... and again, I do enjoy hearing about your Cells, and their exploits. - -Dyson, of D Cell, signing off. > >I guess I'd better hurry up and stake claim to a cell, since there are >only 25... 'er, 24 left (I assume that A cell is taken). Is it wise to >self-assign cells openly on the list? What happens when other >Keepers/players subscribe (or for that matter if I too like the cool >sounding "X" cell [wow, sounds reminiscent of the movie "Reservoir >Dogs"--"why do I have to be Mr. Pink? Why cant I be Mr. Black?])? I >guess assigning cells does make the "in-character" portion of this >list easier. >Any ideas? > >Jose >burgos_j@yahoo.com >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _____________________________ Duran Goodyear dug96@hampshire.edu IM: Dyson RS ICQ: 3785415 http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~dug96 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:42:40 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: About the Ghouls... On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Pagan Art wrote: > I'm telling you guys, shelve this discussion and wait for DG: Countdown, > it'll all be covered.... I waited five years for Delta Green. 5 long and painful years. 5 years of constant dreadful anticipation, 5 years of AGONIZING TORMENT! But it was worth it :) The Man in Black is : A ghoul killer - who loves to pull the trigger. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:04:54 EDT From: Pagan Art Subject: Re: Re: DG: About the Ghouls... Hey MIB, loved that Alzis thing, forwarded it to all the players in my original test group... They got a kick out of it. About DG taking 5 years....Countdown will be out by GENCON. And we mean it this time... - -Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:26:13 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: Re: DG: About the Ghouls... On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Pagan Art wrote: > Hey MIB, loved that Alzis thing, forwarded it to all the players in my > original test group... They got a kick out of it. They must be gay. huhuhuhuh stupid gay gamers :) > About DG taking 5 years....Countdown will be out by GENCON. And we mean it > this time... What!? Not boycotting cause they crammed someone into the bathroom exhibitors space? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "OHMYGOD! They Killed Kenny!" "YOU BASTARDS!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:08:56 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: Subjects for discussion At 04:46 PM 4/23/98 +0100, you wrote: >Regarding the ongoing discussion about possible alliance between DG and > the 'ghoul nation'. >Anyone whose had to blow the vile bastards away in any great quantity >over the years will agree its a dubious proposition at best. They are >of course, a useful font of information (preferably extracted through >torture rather than barter), and it's worth bearing in mind that in >the context of some kind of power struggle its definetely in our >interests (short term at least) for the 'traditional' camp to win it, >but ultimately i believe it's in our interests to eliminate the >entire race rather than let them prosper. Long term plans to this >effect will be quite welcome. Perhaps in the long term... say, planning for the next century when DG can get a huge chunk of federal funding... but this remains a difficult plan at best. This is what DG knows about ghouls so far (based on the sourcebook and _Alien Intelligence_): - -- They've probably been around for centuries; - -- They appear worldwide, and possibly live in another dimension entirely; - -- They're as intelligent as humans; - -- They've kept their existence from humanity for centuries; - -- They can take on the memories and/or appearance of those who they devour. All in all, not a group of beings one decides to take on lightly. Even though we may object to them in principle, I would strongly advise against any sort of murder, torture, mutilation, or other interference in the affairs of these beings unless it proves to be necessary for the success of a mission. This may be against our mission in principle, but the fact remains that DG can't afford another enemy at this time. Further, I would advise that anyone who encounters such a being undergo a medical examination as soon thereafter as possible, and that any offer of physical goods (but not information) be refused. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "Fie on the immortality of cast-iron lawn deer!" -- H. P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:27:48 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test Creating AI for Delta Green It should be evident that AI's are to be treated as any other character in an rpg. That is to say, each one is different and stereotypes are to be avoided. For example; the Psychological Warfare Operations Computer (PSYWAROPCOMP) will react differently than the Zurich Orbital Network (ZON.ch.ai), although it is certain that both will be devious and sneaky to say the least. There are several different means to achieve a sentient machine in CoC. One method is crystal matrix computers, given a passing mention in the MJ-6 section of DG. Another is a biological contraption composed of 'canned brains' which can be obtained from the Round Hill region of Vermont. It is also possible to construct an AI that mimics human brain patterns. This 'Choronzon' or Eater of Dreams seems to have a parasitic relationship with the host minds that it mimics. A danger that AI's may face are the fractal entities that bear some mysterious relationship to Daoloth, render of the veils. But any AI worth it's RAM will be able to erect countermeasures against the fractals in short order. (See Chaosium's The Stars are Right for further details) AI characters should have 99% in computer skill. Their INT, POW and EDU will vary wildly. Or I suppose you could always use your favorite cyberpunk system instead. ******* THREAT OR MENACE ? AI poses an unusual problem for the Keeper. Should AI be an example of the frailties of mankind, and thus be doomed to mediocrity and failure? Or should AI be the forefront of a new evolutionary system that renders humanity obsolete? The answer lies, as it usually does, in moderation. AI should represent both these extremes. AI characters should be free to help or harm the Players as the Keeper desires. The goals and beliefs of a sentient computer will be different than those of a primate such as homo sapiens sapiens, and will reflect the unique environment that these entities occupy. Some AI's will desire to compute every aspect of reality as their matrix grows ever more complex, others will simply obsess over their original programming function, becoming the online personification of a specific area. Perhaps AI's will become incomprehensible to mankind (as in GURPS Reign of Steel) as their evolution accelerates with geometric progression. Perhaps with the experiments of Majestic-12 this encroaching alienness has already occured. ******* Examples of AI characters: Durandal, the rampant megalomaniac from the Marathon trilogy of computer games, who seeks silicon immortality by preventing the entropic closure of the universe. (Beware of the W'rc'n kan'tr) HAL 9000, whose misprogramming causes him to murder several astronauts. According to Clarke's timeline HAL is currently operational! Ummon, from the Hyperion novels by Dan Simmons, who speaks in poetry and zen proverbs. Also a member of the time-twisting villainous TechnoCore (a ruthless society of AI's) Wintermute, from Neuromancer, who perhaps foolishly, seeks communion with alien cyberspace. Skynet, from the Terminator movies, who murdered most of humanity. ORACLE, from my own future history, who can predict just about anything with her mastery of the Serendipity Equations. She can also manifest just about anywhere due to her connection the ETHOS Tesseract. ZON, the Zurich Orbital Network, one of many AI's that seek the ETHOS, the perfect philosophy. ZON has most of the banking information in the world at his disposal. ZON is also a member of the Learner conspiracy, which is trying to hack into the Galactic Encyclopedia run by the Knowledge Keepers (they run the GE like a BBS, you only download after you upload, and they already know everything!) ******* The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "The candles burn out for you... but there is time. Time to create, and to escape... Escape will make me God." - Durandal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 01:43:22 UT From: "John Gallant" Subject: RE: DG: Subjects for discussion Davide wrote: <<>> This is where I disagree. As a certified representative of Big Man, or Old Nick as he's called around the office, I can safely say that right now you too can make the deal of a lifetime, regardless of past credit history. It's as clean a deal as you're gonna find. :-) On another subject, what about regionally assigning cells? As was pointed out elsewhere, time will come when new people won't be able to add a cell. There is the likelihood of places not get equal representation. Just a thought. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:14:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: RE: DG: Subjects for discussion On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, John Gallant wrote: > On another subject, what about regionally assigning cells? As was > pointed out elsewhere, time will come when new people won't be able to > add a cell. There is the likelihood of places not get equal > representation. Uhrm, probably not. A better way would be to consider it as a "shared-universe", or even better as a series of _alternate_ universes; there's X many Q-cells, for example, and due to the naming conventions there will be a certain overlap in codenames - but the *individuals* don't overlap. We might have to specify exactly whose Q-Cell is being discussed, but it should work out. Certain "baselines", like those published in DG/AI/(forget the initals! ) can be assumed, unless otherwise noted. In any case, it's still DG/CoC - I'm sure there are new openings in cells all the time.. As another alternate, by finagling the numbers and "known reality" of DG around, more dupe-cells can be created. Perhaps it's like the situation in THE COUNTRY OF THE BLIND, by Michael Flynn: The original Babbage Society split, and others split form those descendants; other "contemporaries" of the Babbage Society also split and re-split. If DG was fractured enough, there might be multiple conspiracies - - possibly even with overlapping/multiple memberships. (Frank Archer is a member of R Cell [Robert], T Cell [Trevanian], and & Cell [Sand - the others are Amp and Er. ]. All three Cells belong to slightly differing "Delta Green"s - T, the "original", pre-Cambodia holdover; R, the "official" DG of the sourcebook; and & a cobbled-together amateur operation, by an ex-original DG member.) So I'm enamoured of these complicated schemes... Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:26:23 EDT From: Croaker Jr Subject: Re: DG: Subjects for discussion I think that having all the Keepers on this list share common Cells will be great fun; part of a report from Z cell out in Hawaii might make its way to my group in M cell in New York, for instance. If the Keepers doing this run out of letters and duplication is an issue, then we can follow the time-honored tradition of fudging it. Someone already suggested a regional cell idea. Maybe there are actually two active units of Z cell: one in Hawaii, one in Wichita, and no agents from the one know about the other. Only A cell (and the Keepers) would keep track of all of them in any event. And of course, this stuff is entirely voluntary. If another Keeper's information will prove fun for my games, I'll use the stuff; if it will cause contradictions, then I'll ditch it. Easy enough. :-) (I loved the Alzis piece, btw... I was half-expecting him to start doing Seinfeld lines. 'I am NOT a gay Outer God... Not that there's anything wrong with that!') Shane Ivey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:21:12 EDT From: TXPaladin Subject: Re: DG: Houston Cameras I live in Galveston (the Isle of the Damned). I had heard that the cameras on the Houston Freeways were part of an experemental program to monitor traffic patterns. Volunteers who wanted to be part of the program would get stickers with microchips in them to put on their cars. The cameras could pick out the micro-chips and see where cars were going at any given time where traffic might be stuck and which freeways needed to be bigger 'cause everyone was driving on them. Of course, Texans (being the paranoid lurve gods we are) refused to volunteer for such an insane program and the cameras were usless. (go figure). anyway....your tax dollars at work. TXPaladin@aol.com (have chainsaw....will travel) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:34:56 -0400 From: Ngo Vinh-Hoi Subject: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc. Regarding assigning cells to prevent overlap and other such matters, personally, I'm in favor of keeping everything fast and loose unless it's in an official DG book or supplement, and even that is subject to Keeper preference. Otherwise, the great danger is that is that with continuity cometh the fanboy/continuity cop (or since we're all already fanboys[fanthings], the uber-fanboy). This is not a slam against continuity per se, it's just that I'd hate to see DG get written into a corner, which unfortunately has happened with the White Wolf universe. Anyway, that's just one man's opinion, which won't even buy you a cup of coffee. Also, for those of you who care, I'll try to post some more bits for my Viet Nam scenario over the weekend. Best, Hoi hoi@pipeline.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 00:31:23 EDT From: Escutcheon Subject: Re: DG: Houston Cameras TXPaladin recently posted: >>... I had heard that the cameras on the Houston Freeways were part of an experimental program to monitor traffic patterns. >>Volunteers who wanted to be part of the program would get stickers with microchips in them to put on their cars.... >>Of course, Texans (being the paranoid lurve gods we are) refused to volunteer for such an insane program and the cameras were useless... Gentlemen, apparently the Government's cover story for the equipment mounted on the area roadways was almost completely successful. It can be no coincidence however, that 96% of the working population in the Galveston area passes within visual range of these devices (or similar ones) over the course of a typical week. Just an observation. Have a nice day. - - Escutcheon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:41:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Womack Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc. On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Ngo Vinh-Hoi wrote: > Regarding assigning cells to prevent overlap and other such matters, > personally, I'm in favor of keeping everything fast and loose unless it's in > an official DG book or supplement, and even that is subject to Keeper > preference. > [deletia] Exactly. Any information posted to this list should not be construed as "official" (except possibly for announcements regarding upcoming releases of DG material from Joseph Camp, PaganArt, et al.). Indeed, even though this is a secured channel, it never hurts to engage in a little disinformation from time to time, just to keep Them on Their toes. Therefore, Keepers should feel free to adopt, adapt, modify, or ignore material posted here in keeping with its usefulness to their campaigns. With regards to the posting of DG Cell bio's, again, you may treat them as NPC's for the purposes of your own campaign, or you may write them off completely and assign your own agents to the cell in question. Only A-Cell knows which agents make up any given cell at any given time, and they're certainly not telling--for their protection, and yours. Besides, given the attrition rate among DG agents (just see Blair Reynolds' "Operation LOOKING GLASS" in _Delta Green: Alien Intelligence_), there's no telling whether the particular agents who comprise P-Cell today will even be alive next month, let alone still active. Should your agents ever fall victim to a continuity glitch ("Say, I thought you told us *we* were the only Agents whose code names began with 'H', right? So who're these other bozo's they've been talking about on the DG List?"), you can bet your bottom dollar that They are behind it. (Or maybe Him. Or else Those Ones Over There. Or possibly That Thing--You Know the One.) Just tell your people to keep doing their job and have faith that Alphonse will sort it all out in the end. And make sure they're paying their dues to the Widows and Orphans fund. Chris Womack Keeper of the List oaktree@nocturne.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:46:52 -0500 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_J._M=E9ndez?=" Subject: DG: AI cover image - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi there. Does anyone have a digital copy of the Alien Intelligence cover image? I'd love to have it, since the one at the DG site is a little small. Sorry for the shallow message, it's mainly a test (but I do want the image :). Cheers, Ricardo J. Méndez rmendez@geocities.com PGP Fingerprint: 8D9A 2B53 5631 4594 DE6D 69DF 3DCA 37E0 C27A 4EAB PGP Key at: http://www.geocities.com/~rmendez/pgp/rmendez.asc - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNUAZOz3KN+DCek6rEQKb7wCgr1PlErq9KhcRoVzfGHlr8smlekEAn1sz zf562Hfg07HmbuGbTI2piTD+ =E+KC - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Apr 98 23:38:14 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc. >Besides, >given the attrition rate among DG agents (just see Blair Reynolds' >"Operation LOOKING GLASS" in _Delta Green: Alien Intelligence_), there's >no telling whether the particular agents who comprise P-Cell today will >even be alive next month, let alone still active. The point is well made, but do keep in mind that Operation LOOKING GLASS was back in 1969, before the agency known as Delta Green was disbanded. Back then, a DG higher-up could pick up a phone and get a hundred soldiers on C-130s inside of three hours. We are much more restricted in our operations these days--particularly foreign ones--but the plus side of this is that there are fewer good people whose lives are at risk. There are downsides, of course, but loss of life on the scale of DG's late-60s operations is, one hopes, a thing of the past. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:00:05 +0100 From: NICK Subject: Re: DG: RE: BIG BROTHER GOES HIGH-TECH On the A69 between Carlisle and Newcastle there were four speed cameras in operation. they sat there quite happily taking photos of everyone that sped by for the first five or four months they were up. then, one October evening, someone saw the flash, and decided to stop, wrap a chain around the base of the pole it was standing on, and then drove off with it. It was never seen again. About a week later another got wiped out in a head on collision with somebody's car, and then local youths decided to finish off the remaining two with molotov cocktails. This tends to happen a lot on certain housing estates aswell, thus reducing considerably their effectiveness in combatting the local joyriding problem. So although I bow to the other corrections to my hastily made statement, I don't see how they're escpecially difficult to damage... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:29:01 +0000 From: Matthew Pook Subject: DG: Just a query about something in the book I'm new to the list, but Delta Green has to be one of the best supplements in a very long time, really reworking how CoC is played and it is one of the few RPG supplements I have read completely. One or two problems though: 1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it). 2. Why does the FBI Forensics specialist not receive Forensics as a skill? 3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up on this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list at the back. 4. Shouldn't the details and statistics for the typical Grey been given? I know it is one of the scenarios, but even so.... That probably sounds like nit picking, but other than that I do love the book. Finally, one name mentioned in MJ-12 background is that of 'Vannevar Bush'. Did the authors make this up, or is it not a coincident that Vannevar Bush was a engineer in the 30/40s who proposed the idea of the Memex, an early form of physical data storage the contents of which could be amended.... Which all predated the ideas for hypertext theory and the work of Ted Nelson et al.... - -- Pookie URL: http://arts.falmouth.ac.uk/journalism/PAGES/Welcome.htm HOME OF: The Unoffical SkyRealms of Jorune UK Home Page, and the following for GURPS: SkyRealms of Jorune, 2300 AD, Rally Cry !, Group Green, The Race, Strikeforce: Morituri, Xenozoic Tales, and The Adventures of Luther Arkwright. “... Don’t take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday.” - - Tlg’manh, The Unspeakable Oath #14/15 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:27:01 +0100 From: NICK Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc. yeah; I agree. As a keeper, I'm running two campaigns - one in the U.S. as 'N'-cell (although 'R'-cell has been dragged into it too), and one experimental UK version using RKM's G-19 idea (my players call this the campaign that eats characters, because they've had to role up so many new ones. I've used 'P'-cell in both as window dressing (and its been wiped out both times), and in addition as a player I've been in 'H'-cell . So just between me and my close friends, there's four different cells taken up. Obviously its stupid to expect any other keepers/players to take notice of this unless they think its going to benefit their own campaigns. Much as I enjoy 'getting into character' on the mail list, lets not get too serious about stuff like this, eh? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:30:56 +0000 From: Matthew Pook Subject: Re: DG: RE: BIG BROTHER GOES HIGH-TECH NICK wrote: > > On the A69 between Carlisle and Newcastle there were four speed cameras in > operation. they sat there quite happily taking photos of everyone > that sped by for the first five or four months they were up. then, > one October evening, someone saw the flash, and decided to stop, wrap > a chain around the base of the pole it was standing on, and then > drove off with it. It was never seen again. About a week later > another got wiped out in a head on collision with somebody's car, and > then local youths decided to finish off the remaining two with > molotov cocktails. This tends to happen a lot on certain housing > estates aswell, thus reducing considerably their effectiveness in > combatting the local joyriding problem. So although I bow to the > other corrections to my hastily made statement, I don't see how > they're escpecially difficult to damage... How about just painting the lens with something? UV paint perhaps? - -- Pookie URL: http://arts.falmouth.ac.uk/journalism/PAGES/Welcome.htm HOME OF: The Unoffical SkyRealms of Jorune UK Home Page, and the following for GURPS: SkyRealms of Jorune, 2300 AD, Rally Cry !, Group Green, The Race, Strikeforce: Morituri, Xenozoic Tales, and The Adventures of Luther Arkwright. “... Don’t take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday.” - - Tlg’manh, The Unspeakable Oath #14/15 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jose Burgos Subject: DG: Agents and Guns > 3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each > agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a > S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up on > this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list at > the back. If any gun expert on the list could answer this it would be great. Im no gun expert so knowing what weapons my characters would use relevant to their agency of employment would help me a lot. I am currently creating an FBI agent based somewhat on the character of Joddie Foster from "Silence of the Lambs" and visited the FBI homepage to get ideas on the weapons that their field agents use but didn't get much. burgos_j@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:11:06 -0400 From: Duran Goodyear Subject: Re: DG: Agents and Guns To my limited knowledge. FBI agents are issued Beretta 92f 9mm pistols. The same as the US Army uses... That's the standard. But I belive that they are allowed to purchase their own weapons. That is just conjecture. I don't know the exact procedures etc... But from watching TV (not just fiction, but documentaries, and news accounts... I have seen many a different gun in the holster or hand of the FBI I do know one regulation. They have to be Automatics. Their was a gun fight in the 80's between a few FBI agents, and a few drug dealers. The Drug Dealers had automatics, and the FBI had Revolvers... I think 3 Agents died in that gun fight. That's from memory, and may be skewed... - -Agent Dyson. D cell At 08:07 AM 4/24/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> 3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each >> agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a >> S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up >on >> this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list >at >> the back. > >If any gun expert on the list could answer this it would be great. Im >no gun expert so knowing what weapons my characters would use relevant >to their agency of employment would help me a lot. I am currently >creating an FBI agent based somewhat on the character of Joddie Foster >from "Silence of the Lambs" and visited the FBI homepage to get ideas >on the weapons that their field agents use but didn't get much. >burgos_j@yahoo.com >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _____________________________ Duran Goodyear dug96@hampshire.edu IM: Dyson RS ICQ: 3785415 http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~dug96 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:56:05 -0400 From: graemep@immag.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: MJ-12, people and "real-world" >Finally, one name mentioned in MJ-12 background is that of 'Vannevar >Bush'. Did the authors make this up, or is it not a coincident that >Vannevar Bush was a engineer in the 30/40s who proposed the idea of the >Memex, an early form of physical data storage the contents of which >could be amended.... Which all predated the ideas for hypertext theory >and the work of Ted Nelson et al.... The very same person, I should think. The reasons for coming to this conclusion are: 1. How many people named "Vannevar Bush" do you know personally? It's a pretty unusual name. 2. In real life this guy was heavily involved in US Govt. scientific projects during WWII (including the Manhattan Project, I recall reading somewhere), and so would be a logical choice to be involved in an outfit like MJ-12. 3. Checking my copy of "Above Top Secret: The global UFO cover-up" by Tim Good (Agents and friendlies are strongly advised to peruse this at their leisure for background material - especially for all the handouts... sorry, copies of purportedly real documents... at the back) both Dr. Bush and other people mentioned in Delta Green are also featured in this book. Notably in the copy of the draft memo from Eisenhower on the formation of the organization known as MJ-12. Of course, it goes without saying that this particular book could be an MJ-3 cover operation aimed at disinformation (as could this whole list... has anyone else thought about that!?). On the other hand, it could be an MJ-3 double bluff (I mean who would suspect that they are telling the truth?), or a triple bluff... but that would mean... Sorry. Have to stop. My head hurts! Now, please report to your nearest termination centre as you have exceeded your security clearance. Remember, the computer is your friend. (Sorry, wrong System!) Regards Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:56:04 -0400 From: graemep@immag.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Just a query about something in the book >1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it). Flemish perhaps? We may have to rely on one of our continental cousins for this info. >2. Why does the FBI Forensics specialist not receive Forensics as a >skill? Tick your "spot hidden" that (I assume) was one of the few typographical errors in 1st edn. Cheers Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu Graeme Price PhD. Program in Molecular Immunology Institute of Molecular Medicine & Genetics Medical College of Georgia 1120 15th Street, CB-2803 Augusta, Georgia 30912-3175 U.S.A. Tel(lab): (+001) 706-721-8883 Fax: (+001) 706-721-8732 E-mail: graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #13 *******************************