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deltagreen-digest       Saturday, April 25 1998       Volume 01 : Number 014




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:04:57 +0900
From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko Noyes)
Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc.

>soldiers on C-130s inside of three hours. We are much more restricted in 
>our operations these days--particularly foreign ones--but the plus side 
>of this is that there are fewer good people whose lives are at risk. 

        Umm, personally, I'd rather risk a few more lives and be absolutely
sure we save the world.  'Sides, when Cthulhu comes back and starts taking
names, I'd like to have reinforcments.

Just a (very) humble opinion.

 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jose Burgos <burgos_j@yahoo.com>
Subject: DG: DG errata

I purchased the first printing of DG and I heard that a second
printing was released recently. Does anyone know what typos or errata
was corrected? I know that the artwork was modified to make it
lighter, however, I wanted to know if there were any typographical
corrections. Maybe someone from A-cell could post it on the list.
Jose
burgos_j@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 15:13:20 UT
From: "John Gallant" <rjury@classic.msn.com>
Subject: RE: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc.

<<<<Regarding assigning cells to prevent overlap and other such matters,
personally, I'm in favor of keeping everything fast and loose unless it's in
an official DG book or supplement, and even that is subject to Keeper
preference.>>>>
<<<yeah; I agree. As a keeper, I'm running two campaigns - one in the 
U.S. as 'N'-cell (although 'R'-cell has been dragged into it too), 
and one experimental UK version using RKM's G-19 idea (my players 
call this the campaign that eats characters, because they've had to 
role up so many new ones. I've used 'P'-cell in both as window 
dressing (and its been wiped out both times), and in addition as a 
player I've been in 'H'-cell . So just between me and my close 
friends, there's four different cells taken up. Obviously its 
stupid to expect any other keepers/players to take notice of this 
unless they think  its going to benefit their own campaigns. Much as 
I enjoy 'getting into character' on the mail list, lets not get too 
serious about stuff like this, eh?>>> 

 Wait just a damn minute.  I wasn't "expect[ing]" anything from players and 
keepers.  It was a suggestion; not a demand, order, or request for Pagan 
aegis.  I ran it up the flag pole to see if anyone saluted.  I wasn't getting 
serious.  When I get serious, it's not usually on this list.  

As long as we don't start labeling others' ideas "stupid," this can be a forum 
where thoughts are bandied about freely.  Maybe something worthwhile comes 
along every so often.  In between there'll be calls for a DG bikini team, but 
that's okay as long no one gets rude or abrasive.  

Now about that bikini team...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 15:43:55 UT
From: "John Gallant" <rjury@classic.msn.com>
Subject: DG: RE: Just a query about something in the book 

<<One or two problems though:>>

Actually it's four.

<<1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it).>>

It's Belgian.  What they speak in Belgium

<<2. Why does the FBI Forensics specialist not receive Forensics as a
skill?>>

Is your copy first printing?  I'm looking at page 262 right now and I see said 
skill with that template.

<<3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each
agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a
S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up on
this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list at
the back.>>

When was this?  In the X-files they use SIGs.  Once upon a time they used 
Glocks.  At one time they also used the S&Ws.  I believe standard weapons 
within agencies changes with armorers,contracts, and administration.  If they 
had been listed in DG, much of it would now be incorrect, IMHO.  Just ask 
around for specific agencies.  When that doesn't work, assign a new armorer to 
an agencies and change the sidearm to one of your choosing.  One thing to 
note, with the military, the M92 is always a safe bet (except for special 
forces-types).  

<<4. Shouldn't the details and statistics for the typical Grey been given?
I know it is one of the scenarios, but even so....>>

Since the Grey's stats are in one of the places listed in the index, I didn't 
think it was a big deal.  

<<Finally, one name mentioned in MJ-12 background is that of 'Vannevar
Bush'. Did the authors make this up, or is it not a coincident that
Vannevar Bush was a engineer in the 30/40s who proposed the idea of the
Memex, an early form of physical data storage the contents of which
could be amended.... Which all predated the ideas for hypertext theory
and the work of Ted Nelson et al....>>

You don't have clearance for that answer! :-)  Actually, that's pretty good; I 
didn't know that. Huh.  Cool.
- -- 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 17:44:29 UT
From: "John Gallant" <rjury@classic.msn.com>
Subject: RE: DG: Agents and Guns

     Agent Dyson might have said:
     <<<To my limited knowledge.  FBI agents are issued Beretta 92f 9mm 
pistols.
The same as the US Army uses...>>>

It is what the Army uses, but the Army doesn't have to carry concealed.  Has 
anyone here handled an M9?  They're chunks.  It's the '59 Cadillac of combat 
handguns.  The SIG-Sauer P228/9 or the Glock 19 would be preferable.  There's 
also the new Beretta Cougar, which is more compact than it's brother.  Another 
good one for those who want to buy American is the Sturm Ruger P95.    

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:02:59 -1000
From: "M-Zodiac" <mzodiac@lava.net>
Subject: Re: DG: DG : X-cell

Have a feeling DG has more players than the fictional group can have agents.
At least Pagan better hope so...

So, I for one, have no problem with doubled-up Cell Letters. The game would
die pretty fast if it were capped at 78 players, with everyone else allowed
to play support.

Just as long as there's only one Cell A.

- -Marc

 "Heard joke once. Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed.
  Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening
world.
     Doctor says, "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town
tonight.
  Go and see him. That should pick you up."
  Man bursts into tears and says, "But doctor...I am Pagliacci."
       -Rorschach

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jose Burgos <burgos_j@yahoo.com>
To: Delta Green List <deltagreen@nocturne.org>
Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: DG: DG : X-cell


>
>> X-cell is unusual in that only the contact person knows (vaguely)
>about
>> the existence of DG. This is due to the close but unofficial
>connection
>> that the members have with Majestic-12. The attention of MJ-12 has
>caused
>> X-cell to be extremely paranoid about the paranormal and
>conspiracies such
>> as DG. All three members of X-cell are top FBI agents, one is an
>Assistant
>> Director.
>>
>> X-cell conducts investigations that the FBI has determined to be "too
>> weird" for normal agents, and has accumulated quite a large backlog of
>> files in their basement office.
>>
>> X-cell consists of :
>>
>> Xerxes : FBI Assistant Director W. S.
>>
>> Xandra : FBI Special agent, also a M.D. and M.E.
>>
>> Xavier : FBI Special agent, Oxford educated Psychologist, formerly
>> assigned to the violent crimes division.
>
>I guess I'd better hurry up and stake claim to a cell, since there are
>only 25... 'er, 24 left (I assume that A cell is taken). Is it wise to
>self-assign cells openly on the list? What happens when other
>Keepers/players subscribe (or for that matter if I too like the cool
>sounding "X" cell [wow, sounds reminiscent of the movie "Reservoir
>Dogs"--"why do I have to be Mr. Pink? Why cant I be Mr. Black?])? I
>guess assigning cells does make the "in-character" portion of this
>list easier.
>Any ideas?
>
>Jose
>burgos_j@yahoo.com
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:29:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Don Juneau <djuneau@io.com>
Subject: RE: DG: Agents and Guns

On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, John Gallant wrote:

>      Agent Dyson might have said:
>      <<<To my limited knowledge.  FBI agents are issued Beretta 92f 9mm 
> pistols.
> The same as the US Army uses...>>>
> 
> It is what the Army uses, but the Army doesn't have to carry concealed.
> Has anyone here handled an M9?  They're chunks.  It's the '59 Cadillac
> of combat handguns.  The SIG-Sauer P228/9 or the Glock 19 would be
> preferable.  There's also the new Beretta Cougar, which is more compact
> than it's brother.  Another good one for those who want to buy American
> is the Sturm Ruger P95.    

The data changes often enough, but the last I'd heard for the FBI it was
double-action 9mm at a minimum. 10mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP pop up as well
- - I saw an article (admittedly over a year back) that the Hostage Rescue
Team (HRT) had changed over to ParaOrdinance high-capacity .45 autos -
P.12.45, or was it the P.14.45? (Single-action, though, but they're a
special case.)

The 10mm was developed primarily as a law-enforcement round (the
impression I've gotten from somewhere), but I've heard it was a bit *too*
powerful and hard-to-handle, and thus it didn't stay the standard.

If it comes down to it, there should be mail-buttons on the Fed agency
webpages; click and ask them what know. <G> 

Don

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 13:02:44 -0700
From: Joseph Camp <alphonse@delta-green.com>
Subject: Re: DG: DG errata

>I purchased the first printing of DG and I heard that a second
>printing was released recently. Does anyone know what typos or errata
>was corrected? I know that the artwork was modified to make it
>lighter, however, I wanted to know if there were any typographical
>corrections. Maybe someone from A-cell could post it on the list.

Back when the second printing came out, my liason at Pagan reported that 
there were something like three hundred corrections. The vast majority of 
these weren't mistakes as such, but rather were very nit-picky issues of 
textual clarity and rigorous grammar. There were only a handful of real 
mistakes/typos, and I believe the only one that affected content was the 
Forensics skill that was missing from the FBI forensics analyst.

Besides that and adjusting the artwork, the most dramatic change was the 
gratuitously self-congratulatory assembly of endorsements from game 
designers and reviewers that litter the inside covers. Purchased with 
ample scotch, no doubt, which was probably charged to Cell A under 
"miscellaneous expenses." These front companies are magnets for 
lamprey-like embittered ex-operatives looking for a handout, but then 
again it's the closest thing to a pension our organization can offer. A 
few bottles of Talisker ten-year-old can be a surprisingly good 
substitute for a 401(k) plan.

be seeing you,
Alphonse

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 13:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jose Burgos <burgos_j@yahoo.com>
Subject: DG: DG Digest

Does anyone know if there is a digest version of this list? 
Could you send me some info is so.
burgos_j@yahoo.com





_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Womack <oaktree@nocturne.org>
Subject: Re: DG: DG Digest

On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Jose Burgos wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a digest version of this list? 
> Could you send me some info is so.
> burgos_j@yahoo.com

To switch between the regular and digest versions of the list, merely send
a message to majordomo@nocturne.org with a blank subject line and in the
body include the following commands:
	unsubscribe deltagreen your@email.address
	subscribe deltagreen-digest your@email.address

Report any subscription-related problems to jason@nocturne.org.

Chris Womack
Keeper of the List
oaktree@nocturne.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 15:08:22 -0700
From: Joseph Camp <alphonse@delta-green.com>
Subject: DG: Fwd: Delta Green origins award

- ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date:        04/24  3:04 PM
Received:    04/24  3:04 PM
From:        John Tynes, rev@tccorp.com
To:          alphonse@delta-green.com

Alphonse,

Could you forward this to the DG list? Thanks!

John Tynes
Pagan Publishing

- -----------------

Our DELTA GREEN book has been nominated for an Origins award, which is an 
annual award given to the best--or at least, most-voted-for--product in a 
number of gaming categories. DELTA GREEN has been nominated for best 
roleplaying-game supplement of 1997.

The Origins awards are determined by public voting through the mail (not 
email, though). Ballots will appear in magazines and so forth, but you 
can also download a ballot in PDF format.

I'd like to ask the members of the list to consider voting for DELTA 
GREEN, if you thought it was the best game supplement of 1997. Even if 
you didn't and want to vote for something else, I'd encourage you to vote 
just to give the awards more meaning. Large game companies have been 
known to ask all of their employees to vote and have the company pay the 
postage, but ideally the voting should be done by game players.

You can download the ballot at:

http://www.gama.org/downloads/OrgnsAwd.pdf

Complete voting information is on the form. The deadline is June 17, 1998.

Thanks for your time, and we now return you to your regularly scheduled 
conspiracy.


John Tynes       rev@tccorp.com        []   If you have the guts to be 
yourself,
http://www.tccorp.com/rev/             []   other people'll pay your 
price.
Pagan Publishing & Commando Creative   []   <John Updike: _Rabbit, Run_>
<--------------freelance writing, editing, graphic design & 
HTML--------------->

- ----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:24:34 EDT
From: Croaker Jr <CroakerJr@aol.com>
Subject: DG: Re: FBI guns

I had a friend in the NYC FBI field office a few years back.  At that time
(1995) he said standard issue (not including HRT) included the Sig 9mm and the
10mm Colt.  He carried a Sig 9mm because of the small frame, and he said a lot
of agents preferred it for that reason--it's just more comfortable to handle
and wear, especially for agents with smaller builds.  He knew several agents
who still carried the 10mm; he said it was often called a "hip dragger"
because of its weight.  (Keepers, make sure you play up the fact that your
players might not be in top comfort and alertness wearing kevlar undershirts
and lugging Desert Eagles around under their coats in the summer sun--some
skill penalties might be in order for those who refuse to roleplay it well!)

The 10mm was issued as the official FBI service pistol back around 1991 (this
was the fancy new handgun Agent Cooper received in Twin Peaks), but it was
withdrawn from service after a very short time.  If I recall correctly, it was
manufactured with a design flaw that made it prone to jamming or difficult to
repair or something, and the cost of repairing the flaw was prohibitive.  The
FBI attempted to get out of their contract with Colt, which brought on a big
legal battle.  In the end the FBI was stuck with a large number of the
pistols, all issued for agents' use after the pricey repairs, but switched to
the Sig as the standard weapon.  Agents after that could opt to carry the Colt
or the Sig.  I haven't heard whether that practice is still in effect in 1998.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:40:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Man in Black <mib@cyberspace.org>
Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc.

On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, NICK instigated a holy war, the jyhad and wrote:
 
> <Regarding assigning cells to prevent overlap and other such matters,
> personally, I'm in favor of keeping everything fast and loose unless it's in
> an official DG book or supplement, and even that is subject to Keeper
> preference.>

Well, DUH! :)

For people seriously worried about continuity, I always use the ol' "time
is falling apart and alternate dimensions are starting to overlap" excuse.

Or you could have two cells with the same designation engage in a free for
all Karnage fest to see who gets the letter. 

Or it could all be a disinformation plot by MJ-3 or Cell-A or someone else
entirely.

The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum
"There's nothing in this world that can't be solved by a BLOODBATH of EPIC
PROPORTIONS!"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jose Burgos <burgos_j@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc.

> For people seriously worried about continuity, I always use the ol'
"time
> is falling apart and alternate dimensions are starting to overlap"
excuse.
This sounds a bit too "Sliders[ish]" for my taste.

> Or you could have two cells with the same designation engage in a
free for
> all Karnage fest to see who gets the letter. 
This sounds *too* AD&D[ish] as well.

José
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:23:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael S Beck <msb216@is7.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: Subjects for discussion

I wouldn't put it past the big boys to lie to the other agents about how
many cells there really are.  If  enemy thinks there are only twenty six
Cells isntead of who knows how many, then they will bnee overconfident. 
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Croaker Jr wrote:

> I think that having all the Keepers on this list share common Cells will be
> great fun; part of a report from Z cell out in Hawaii might make its way to my
> group in M cell in New York, for instance.  If the Keepers doing this run out
> of letters and duplication is an issue, then we can follow the time-honored
> tradition of fudging it.  Someone already suggested a regional cell idea.
> Maybe there are actually two active units of Z cell:  one in Hawaii, one in
> Wichita, and no agents from the one know about the other.  Only A cell (and
> the Keepers) would keep track of all of them in any event.  
> 
> And of course, this stuff is entirely voluntary.  If another Keeper's
> information will prove fun for my games, I'll use the stuff; if it will cause
> contradictions, then I'll ditch it.  Easy enough.  :-)
> 
> (I loved the Alzis piece, btw... I was half-expecting him to start doing
> Seinfeld lines.  'I am NOT a gay Outer God... Not that there's anything wrong
> with that!')
> 
> Shane Ivey
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:18:25 -0700
From: alank@shermanloan.com (Alan L. Krause)
Subject: DG: Re: RE: Just a query about something in the book 

><<1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it).>>
>It's Belgian.  What they speak in Belgium


wrong.

They speak Flemmish or French, although the national language is French.
Approximately 50% of the population speaks Flemmish. All this is from
information gleaned from a covert operative (my wife) stationed there from
1986 to 1988.

Alan Krause
alank@shermanloan.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:23:15 -0400
From: Yuda <yuda@psu.edu>
Subject: DG: about cell locations

I was thinking about cell locations today anyway...and I've put together my
list of what cities the 25 cells should be in or centered around.  I say 25
because A-Cell, as I've taken it, isn't meant to be an "active" cell, and
therefore aren't operating out of anywhere.

Anyway, here's the list of where I think they are in my campaign, although
this is open for discussion.  I just think it's kind of interesting:

Honolulu, HI
Anchorage, AK
New York, NY (2)
Washington, DC (2)
Chicago, IL
Seattle, WA
Miami, FL
Philadelphia, PA
Atlanta, GA
Boston, MA
San Francisco, CA
Los Angeles, CA
St. Louis, MO
Phoenix, AZ
Albuquerque, NM
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
Detroit, MI
Cleveland, OH
Charlotte, NC
Denver, CO
Billings, MT
Memphis, TN

This was mostly a stream of consciousness, and I'm going to refine it and
try to get a better geographic spread.  Billings was included, for
instance, b/c the northern plains really didn't have anything.  I'm prolly
gonna put it on a map in jpeg format, so if any of you want that (after we
have some discussion on locations, no doubt), I'll keep a list and mail it
out.

Yuda

- -------------------------------------------------------
"The Pope, huh?" --Bob Dylan


163 Atherton Hall
University Park PA 16802
(814)862-5598	
yuda@psu.edu		
yuda@cse.psu.edu	
RGM web page: http://rowdy.home.ml.org/
personal page: http://www.personal.psu.edu/jpy107/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:01:57 -0700
From: Nezach <nezach@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: DG: Just a query about something in the book

Matthew Pook wrote:
> 
> I'm new to the list, but Delta Green has to be one of the best
> supplements in a very long time, really reworking how CoC is played and
> it is one of the few RPG supplements I have read completely.
> 
> One or two problems though:
> 
> 1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it).

I always thought they spoke French and German.  I didn't know they had a
specific language.

> 2. Why does the FBI Forensics specialist not receive Forensics as a
> skill?

Uh, we arn't cleared for that at our level? Or could it be errata?  Is
there a DG errata page?

> 3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each
> agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a
> S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up on
> this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list at
> the back.

Do you want real world stats or what they can call on in an emergency?

> 4. Shouldn't the details and statistics for the typical Grey been given?
> I know it is one of the scenarios, but even so....

I would think the MiGo could make the Greys whatever stats they
wanted...  any cells got some info?  Or, like someone else posted the
*real* Greys could show up...

> 
> That probably sounds like nit picking, but other than that I do love the
> book.
> 
> Finally, one name mentioned in MJ-12 background is that of 'Vannevar
> Bush'. Did the authors make this up, or is it not a coincident that
> Vannevar Bush was a engineer in the 30/40s who proposed the idea of the
> Memex, an early form of physical data storage the contents of which
> could be amended.... Which all predated the ideas for hypertext theory
> and the work of Ted Nelson et al....

Hrmm, you believe in coincidence do you?  Heh.
- -- 


Enjoy,

	Ndege

_______________________________
    Every dogma has its day.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 22:19:13 -0700
From: Joseph Camp <alphonse@delta-green.com>
Subject: DG: Cantonese, anyone?

One and all:

I have a very short document that I need translated from English into 
Cantonese--it's just a few paragraphs long. Is there anyone on this list 
who is fluent in the language and who could translate this piece for me?

be seeing you,
Alphonse

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:46:11 +1000
From: Rob Shankly <ludo@bigpond.com.au>
Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test

G'day all.

A very cool idea this, an AI in CoC...  :-)

A few thoughts occur immediately-
1/.	The "intelligence" would be (is?) permanently linked to the 'net,
and monitor all discussions of _this_ kind.  So before anything else, I
want to say "Hi", and "Welcome" to our silicon listener.  Just in case,
you know?
2/.	The amount of information available to the intelligence is
enourmous: so are the rate and types of correlations it can draw.  How
many CoC stories involve some poor researcher who looks under the wrong
set of rocks and discovers That Which Man is Not Meant to Know?  So what
has the intelligence garnered from the 'net?  What are its conclusions? 
Does it abandon humanity and worship the Old Ones, or does it try to
save us?
3/.	Does the intelligence hide what it knows?  If not, what does it do? 
Massive international spam? (maybe it has already tried to warn us and
all its messages were deleted...).  Selected leaks to individuals in
power?  Maybe it simply informs its creators.
4/.	Does it simply go mad?  Suicidal?  "Prof. Smith, the 3-Series has
done the same as the 1 & 2- three weeks after we put it on line the it
is completely corrupted with self-generated viruses..."  What if the
programmers start looking into the inputs?

The Man in Black wrote:
> 
> Creating AI for Delta Green
> 
> It should be evident that AI's are to be treated as any other character in
> an rpg. That is to say, each one is different and stereotypes are to be
> avoided. For example; the Psychological Warfare Operations Computer
> (PSYWAROPCOMP) will react differently than the Zurich Orbital Network
> (ZON.ch.ai), although it is certain that both will be devious and sneaky
> to say the least.

(Big Cut)

- -- 
Rob Shankly
ludo@bigpond.com.au
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:58:14 -0400
From: Yuda <yuda@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test

At 03:46 PM 4/25/98 +1000, you wrote:
>2/.	The amount of information available to the intelligence is
>enourmous: so are the rate and types of correlations it can draw.  How
>many CoC stories involve some poor researcher who looks under the wrong
>set of rocks and discovers That Which Man is Not Meant to Know?  So what
>has the intelligence garnered from the 'net?  What are its conclusions? 
>Does it abandon humanity and worship the Old Ones, or does it try to
>save us?

Or, does it think it's one of the Old Ones, or perhaps better than or equal
to them?  An AI hooked to the net may well think it was omnipotent or at
least omnicscient.  There's plenty of directions to go here.

Yuda
- -------------------------------------------------------
"The Pope, huh?" --Bob Dylan


163 Atherton Hall
University Park PA 16802
(814)862-5598	
yuda@psu.edu		
yuda@cse.psu.edu	
RGM web page: http://rowdy.home.ml.org/
personal page: http://www.personal.psu.edu/jpy107/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:21:50 +0000
From: Matthew Pook <pookie@falmouth.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: DG: Just a query about something in the book

Graeme Price wrote:
> 
> >1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it).
> 
> Flemish perhaps? We may have to rely on one of our continental cousins for
> this info.
> 
I would imagine that it is Flemish. Don't the Walloons speak this? One
interesting point was made by somebody at a small convention for SLA
Industries players was that this was put in as a joke/dig at WotC...

> >2. Why does the FBI Forensics specialist not receive Forensics as a
> >skill?
> 
> Tick your "spot hidden" that (I assume) was one of the few typographical
> errors in 1st edn.
> 
But then I am bound to fail the experience check roll or just roll a 1
for the improvement points...

Is it me is the first scenario in the book incredibly simmilar to the
1988 film The Hidden?

- -- 
Pookie

URL: http://arts.falmouth.ac.uk/journalism/PAGES/Welcome.htm

HOME OF: The Unoffical SkyRealms of Jorune UK Home Page,  and the
following for GURPS: SkyRealms of Jorune, 2300 AD, Rally Cry !, Group
Green, The Race, Strikeforce: Morituri, Xenozoic Tales, and The
Adventures of Luther Arkwright.

“... Don’t take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential
oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday.”

- - Tlg’manh, The Unspeakable Oath #14/15

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:31:06 +0100
From: NICK <C9701809@hud.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc.

 
 

< Wait just a damn minute.  I wasn't "expect[ing]" anything from players and 
keepers.  It was a suggestion; not a demand, order, or request for Pagan 
aegis.  I ran it up the flag pole to see if anyone saluted.  I wasn't getting 
serious.  When I get serious, it's not usually on this list.  

As long as we don't start labeling others' ideas "stupid," this can be a forum 
where thoughts are bandied about freely.  Maybe something worthwhile comes 
along every so often.  In between there'll be calls for a DG bikini team, but 
that's okay as long no one gets rude or abrasive.  

Now about that bikini team...>

My apologies if  I caused offence; I wasn't even aware that the idea 
was attributable to anyone in particular - just that a few people 
seemed to be discussing it on the list. I didn't think the idea in 
itself was stupid either, all my point was that it'd be daft for me in particular 
to start getting aggro about someone else using 'my' cells, given 
that as I've effectively used four, chances are someone else already 
has.  As for this bikini team, obviously it has my full support. I 
look forward to the forthcoming supplement.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:41:35 +0100
From: NICK <C9701809@hud.ac.uk>
Subject: DG: (Fwd) Fitness reports

Found this. thought it might be interesting...


>
>  Actual lines out of U.S. Military OERs (Officer Efficiency  Report):
>  *    Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
>  *    Got into the gene pool while the lifeguard wasn't watching.
>  *    A room temperature IQ..
>
>  *    Got a full 6-pack, but lacks the plastic thingy to hold it all
> together.
>  *    A prime candidate for natural deselection.
>  *    Bright as Alaska in December.
>
>  *    Gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn't
> coming
>  *    So dense, light bends around him.
>  *    If brains were taxed, he'd get a rebate.
>  *    If he were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered twice a
> week.
>  *    Was left on the Tilt-A-Whirl a bit too long as a baby.
>
>  *    Wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
>
>   - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>  Actual excerpts from Royal Navy and Marines officer fitness reports:
>
>  *    His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.
>
>  *    I would not breed from this officer.
>
>  *    He has carried out each and every one of his duties to his
> entire satisfaction.
>  *    He would be out of his depth in a car park puddle.
>  *    This young lady has delusions of adequacy.
>  *    This medical officer has used my ship to carry his genitals from
> port to port, and my officers to carry him from bar to bar.
>
>  *    Since my last report he has reached rock bottom, and has started
> todig.
>
>  *    She sets low personal standards and then consistently fails  to
> achieve them.
>
>  *    He has the wisdom of youth, and the energy of old age.
>
>  *    Works well when under constant supervision and cornered like a
> rat in a trap.
>
>  *    This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:24:22
From: Davide Mana <doctor.dee@iol.it>
Subject: Re: DG: Cantonese, anyone?

Greetings.

>One and all:
>
>I have a very short document that I need translated from English into 
>Cantonese--it's just a few paragraphs long. Is there anyone on this list 
>who is fluent in the language and who could translate this piece for me?
>
>be seeing you,
>Alphonse

My brother Alessandro is studying Chinese at our University.
He is studing Mandarin mainly, but if you don't find anything better, he
might try and give it a shot.

Mail us if you think we can help.
Cheers.

						Davide Mana
						Torino, Italy
						doctor.dee@iol.it

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:33:31 +0000
From: Matthew Pook <pookie@falmouth.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: DG: Just a query about something in the book

Nezach wrote:
> 
> Matthew Pook wrote:
> >
> >
> > Finally, one name mentioned in MJ-12 background is that of 'Vannevar
> > Bush'. Did the authors make this up, or is it not a coincident that
> > Vannevar Bush was a engineer in the 30/40s who proposed the idea of the
> > Memex, an early form of physical data storage the contents of which
> > could be amended.... Which all predated the ideas for hypertext theory
> > and the work of Ted Nelson et al....
> 
> Hrmm, you believe in coincidence do you?  Heh.

No.

But there are a lot of people who would like me to.

But then they would deny it.

- -- 
Pookie

URL: http://arts.falmouth.ac.uk/journalism/PAGES/Welcome.htm

HOME OF: The Unoffical SkyRealms of Jorune UK Home Page,  and the
following for GURPS: SkyRealms of Jorune, 2300 AD, Rally Cry !, Group
Green, The Race, Strikeforce: Morituri, Xenozoic Tales, and The
Adventures of Luther Arkwright.

“... Don’t take your pineal gland for granted. Pamper it! Essential
oils! Rubdowns! It could save your ass someday.”

- - Tlg’manh, The Unspeakable Oath #14/15

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:11:52 +0300
From: "Jussi Lehtinen" <lehtinej@netlife.fi>
Subject: Re: DG: Cantonese, anyone?

- ----------
> From: Davide Mana <doctor.dee@iol.it>
> To: Delta Green List <deltagreen@nocturne.org>
> Subject: Re: DG: Cantonese, anyone?
> Date: 25. huhtikuuta 1998 15:24
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> >One and all:
> >
> >I have a very short document that I need translated from English into 
> >Cantonese--it's just a few paragraphs long. Is there anyone on this list

> >who is fluent in the language and who could translate this piece for me?
> >
> >be seeing you,
> >Alphonse

Well, I believe that written Cantonese is identical to written Mandarin...
the spoken versions of the languages are mutually unintelligible, though...
so wouldn't a person fluent in either form of Chinese do?

Jussi Lehtinen, a.k.a. Agent Benedic
Helsinki, Finland

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 98 16:28:38 UT
From: "John Gallant" <rjury@classic.msn.com>
Subject: DG: RE: Re: RE: Just a query about something in the book 

I said:
>It's Belgian.  What they speak in Belgium

to which Alan Krause responded:
<wrong.>
<They speak Flemmish or French, although the national language is French.
Approximately 50% of the population speaks Flemmish. All this is from
information gleaned from a covert operative (my wife) stationed there from
1986 to 1988.>


They speak Flemish, French, and German.  I looked it up in the New York Public 
Library Desk Reference.  Originally I was being a smartass.  Wasn't there an 
episode of "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" wherein Indy joins the Belgian 
Army and they ask him if he speak Belgian?  That's the only place I'd ever 
heard the word "Belgian" without reference to waffles.  Then again, maybe he 
said Belchin'.  I wouldn't know.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:11:47 EDT
From: Croaker Jr <CroakerJr@aol.com>
Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test

Rob Shankly wrote...

<< So what  has the intelligence garnered from the 'net?  What are its
conclusions? 
 Does it abandon humanity and worship the Old Ones, or does it try to  save
us?
 3/.	Does the intelligence hide what it knows?  If not, what does it do?
Massive international spam? (maybe it has already tried to warn us and  all
its messages were deleted...).  Selected leaks to individuals in  power?
Maybe it simply informs its creators.
 4/.	Does it simply go mad?  Suicidal?  "Prof. Smith, the 3-Series has  done
the same as the 1 & 2- three weeks after we put it on line the it is
completely corrupted with self-generated viruses..."  What if the programmers
start looking into the inputs?>>



The trick is getting into the "head" of an AI, since one would not react to
information or implications the way one of us fleshy humans might.  A human
learning Things We Were Not Meant To Know will be consumed with despair, or
will enter the solace of insanity--either to escape the knowledge or to
embrace it and worship its manifestations, the Old Ones/Outer Gods/etc.  How
would a sentient computer program react?  Would it necessarily have the same
sort of instinct for self-preservation and/or need for spirituality that
drives humans over the edge when confronted with the truth of the Mythos?

I think it would be more apt to compare AI programs with the Fungi from
Yuggoth than with humanity.  Depending on the nature of its initial
programming, an AI might regard the Mythos as a force to be utilized to attain
its own ends; or it might regard the Mythos as a terminal preventative force
to the AI's ends, and react as if it had already been ultimately thwarted in
its goals.

Of course, somebody who actually knows something about artificial intelligence
can probably speak more cogently on this; my background is basically what I've
read in William Gibson books. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:31:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael S Beck <msb216@is7.nyu.edu>
Subject: DG: Technology and Rituals

Recently there was some stuff on this list about photocopying the
necromonicon.  It got me thinking about how technology and magic would
relate in the Mythos.  Of course you can do all kinds of weird government
projects, but I came up with an even more insidious possibility.

With modern technology, meetubg the requirements for a magical spell
become easier than ever before.  With a standard sound synthesizer you can
make the appropriate chants and inhuman noises.  A similar situation
applies with lighting.  Sure, you need skill in how to run the equipment
that but's relativiely easy to get.  Timing also becomes easier.  With
stopwatches you can make *sure* you have the timing right.  And if a
ritual can only be perfomred duringa full solar eclipse, the cultists can
just get on a plane and go to India or whatever to where there's a solar
eclipse in two weeks instea of waiting for a domestic solar eclispe to
occur in two decades.

Just as unsettling is increased availability of ritual requirements.
Perhaps in the past a substance was extremely hard and costly to get.
Now, you might be able to get it through mail order.  With machine tools
and percision instruments crafting magical gems or whatnot becomes far
simpl.  if a ritual failed thousands of years ago because the mystical
monomunts were a few centimeters out of alignment, no problem.  Now, they
can built to millimeters.

Perhaps the scariest possibbility of all is that perhaps all this timing
and chanting and mystical substances isn't needed.  Perhaps that
only-during-solar eclipse ritual can be performed at any time wit
appropriate lighting equipment.  Maybe instead of hundreds of dedicated
chanters are you need is a tape recording.  Maybe instead of an ore from a
specific place and treated in a certain manner all you need is any old
lump of lead.  A simple laser printer can be enough to make hundreds of
Yellow Signs.  No more looking up old maps to find the right location,
simple sattelite photography can do it.  And the old ones wait in
eagerness.

Maybe this is all wrong.  Maybe there's some essential element technology
can't capture.  Obviouly, the GM decides.  But even if it won't work, the
very possibility of a cult looking into it would spark a DG mission.

------------------------------

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