From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #15 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 015 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:59:48 +0100 From: NICK Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test maybe; just maybe the AI could be a great old one. No, really, think about it. Nobody knows what they really are, what they're composed of, whether they're physical in the sense that we think of, or if that's just something they choose to be at any one time. We're all familiar with the idea that it's some kind of cosmic destiny that the old ones will return - implying that they are manifest in whatever goes before this - and also that the human race will somehow assist in this return. Maybe the old ones are manifest in us;- and that eventually, we will quite literally re-create them, in one form or another. Hm. think I'll switch off now. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:54:35 -0400 From: Ngo Vinh-Hoi Subject: DG: Some info on guns 4 Feds (long) As of 1998, all agents graduating from the FBI academy are issued Glock 22 or 23s. They are both in caliber .40 Smith & Wesson, giving them the same power as the 10MM short round that was specially devised for the Feebs when they were still playing around with the Smith & Wesson 1076. The Glock 22 is a full sized service pistol, holding 15+1 rounds, whilst the Glock 23 is midsize/compact holding 13+1 rounds. The individual agent is allowed to pick between the two. Incidentally, the the G23 will accept the G22 magazines, although the reverse is obviously not the case. There's also a G27 subcompact(holding 9+1) which will accept mags for the G22 & G23, although there's no word on whether those are authorized for backup carry. In fact, as of a few years ago, FBI agents weren't allowed to carry backup weapons unless given special permission by their SAC, but that policy may have since been repealed. Also, there's no word on if agents already in service will have to transition to the Glocks or if they can hang on to their current firearms. Prior to this switch to Glock, most FBI agents carried SIG 226/228s or the S&W 1076. Back in the mid '80s some of the older agents were still carrying Smith & Wesson Model 13 revolvers, which were .357 Magnums--they were restricted to hot .38 Special ammo, however, unless they were given special dispensation by their SACs. Other weapons available to field agents include a semi-auto only version of the Heckler & Koch MP5 9MM submachinegun (unclear if they're going to switch to the .40 S&W version for commonality of ammo) & a somewhat modified Remington 870 pump-action shotgun (check out the Scattergun Technologies website at http://www.scattergun.com/, where they list an FBI model, although who knows if it's official issue). The FBI regional SWAT teams usually carry full auto MP5s and customized Colt 1911s (with 8 round mags). Their sniper rifles are civilian variants of the USMC M40A1 in .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO (itself a militarized Remington 700 varmint rifle). Unlike agents assigned to the Hostage Rescue Team, agents on the regional SWAT teams still have investigative duties and don't train full time. As for the HRT, they are issued full auto MP5/10s which use full power 10MM ammo. The standard sidearm is a highly customized Para-Ornance P14, which is essentially a Colt 1911 with a modified frame for high capacity mags (in this case, 14+1). Being the creme de la creme (except 4 two little incidents called Waco & Ruby Ridge;), I'm sure that whatever they want, they can get. Other agencies get far less press than those glory hounds at the FBI, but what I know of I'll pass on as follows: DEA: The Sig 228 is the most commonly issued sidearm, although a number of others are authorized. The last thing an undercover agent wants is to be stereotyped by his sidearm! Weapons commonly used on raid teams include customized Remington 870 shotguns and short-barreled M16/AR15s. Anyway, you might want to ask Frank Pine, since he probably deals with the DEA on a regular basis. Customs: No info on their sidearm, but they have Steyr AUGs in their inventory (possibly semi-auto only). INS/Border Patrol: Beretta 96D Brigadier (essentially a beefed-up double-action only Beretta 92) in .40 S&W with a capacity of 11+1. Also a customized Remington 870 shotgun (see the Scattergun Technologies website). Older Border Patrol officers may still carry the Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver. Incidentally, the Border Patrol is the single most dangerous job in Federal law enforcement, with the possible exception of the DEA. United States Postal Inspectors: Most seem to carry Smith & Wesson 686 revolvers in .357 Magnum although they may have switched to the Beretta 92. Secret Service: Sig 228s are common as are snubnosed Smith & Wesson Model 19s (loaded with the hot "Treasury Load" .38 Special, not Magnums). Uzi submachineguns are common, since they're more concealable than the H&K MP5, although this may change with the advent of the compact H&K MP5 PDW. Again, like the FBI anything they want, they can probably get. National Park Service Police: They carry the Rolls-Royce of semi-auto handguns, the Heckler & Koch P7M13 9MM with a 13+1 capacity. I believe that officers with small hands are allowed to carry the more compact P7M8 (8+1 cap), but have to carry 4 spare mags instead of only 2. BATF: Sig 228s are also popular here, as well as H&K MP5s for raids. US Marshals: I'm not sure what they carry on a day to day basis, but Smith & Wesson revolvers in .357 Magnum and S&W autos in .45 ACP are commonly used by the Special Operations Group(SOG). Other brands are authorized for backup carry, and the most common shoulder arm for the SOG is the Colt 9MM submachinegun version of the M16. The Marshals are also famous for their "Witness Protection" version of the Remington 870 shotgun, which has a pistol grip stock and a 12" barrel (I think the capacity is reduced to 3+1)--don't fire this one with rifled slugs unless you're ready to try dentures! EPA Criminal Investigation Division (CID): Yes, the EPA does have its own special agents and doesn't have to rely exclusively on other agencies! The issue sidearm is the compact Glock 19 in 9MM (15+1 cap). The ubiquitous Remington 870 shotgun is the longarm of choice. Most of these weapons are listed in the back of Delta Green, but any that aren't should be pretty easy to extrapolate. Incidentally, I have some disagreements with some of the COC guns stats, but that's for another day. Any questions, comments, corrections are welcome, since I am in no way a firearms expert, having only shot ~150 rounds through a Colt 1911. Just call me Mr. Trivia:) Hope this helps, Hoi hoi@pipeline.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:00:19 -0400 From: Ngo Vinh-Hoi Subject: Re: DG: about cell locations At 09:23 PM 4/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >I was thinking about cell locations today anyway...and I've put together my >list of what cities the 25 cells should be in or centered around. I say 25 >because A-Cell, as I've taken it, isn't meant to be an "active" cell, and >therefore aren't operating out of anywhere. > >Anyway, here's the list of where I think they are in my campaign, although >this is open for discussion. I just think it's kind of interesting: > >Honolulu, HI >Anchorage, AK >New York, NY (2) >Washington, DC (2) >Chicago, IL >Seattle, WA >Miami, FL >Philadelphia, PA >Atlanta, GA >Boston, MA >San Francisco, CA >Los Angeles, CA >St. Louis, MO >Phoenix, AZ >Albuquerque, NM >Dallas/Fort Worth, TX >Detroit, MI >Cleveland, OH >Charlotte, NC >Denver, CO >Billings, MT >Memphis, TN > >This was mostly a stream of consciousness, and I'm going to refine it and >try to get a better geographic spread. Billings was included, for >instance, b/c the northern plains really didn't have anything. I'm prolly >gonna put it on a map in jpeg format, so if any of you want that (after we >have some discussion on locations, no doubt), I'll keep a list and mail it >out. > >Yuda > Any thought given to permanent overseas cells? For example I'm sure that Delta Green still has an abiding interest in what happens in Europe, so might require one in London or Berlin. Likewise one in Buenos Aires or Rio de Janeiro, especially if they become aware of the remnants of the Karotechia. Hoi hoi@pipeline.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:09:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Some info on guns 4 Feds (long) On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Ngo Vinh-Hoi wrote: ) > As for the HRT, they are issued full auto MP5/10s which use full power 10MM > ammo. Hmm. The last info I had gotten (3rd Edition GUN DIGEST BOOK OF ASSAULT WEAPONS) implied that the MP5/10 was prototyped, but not accepted at the time. Altho it certainly looked like on in the Reinhard Galt illo in DG... Don, charter member, Gun Fondlers Anonyomous ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:30:49 -0400 From: Ngo Vinh-Hoi Subject: Re: DG: Agents and Guns At 12:11 PM 4/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >To my limited knowledge. FBI agents are issued Beretta 92f 9mm pistols. >The same as the US Army uses... >That's the standard. But I belive that they are allowed to purchase their >own weapons. >That is just conjecture. I don't know the exact procedures etc... >But from watching TV (not just fiction, but documentaries, and news >accounts... I have seen many a different gun in the holster or hand of the FBI > >I do know one regulation. They have to be Automatics. Their was a gun >fight in the 80's between a few FBI agents, and a few drug dealers. The >Drug Dealers had automatics, and the FBI had Revolvers... >I think 3 Agents died in that gun fight. > >That's from memory, and may be skewed... > >-Agent Dyson. D cell > What you're referring to is the infamous 1986 "Miami Massacre", which was made into the first "In the Line of Duty" TV movie. A lot of debate has come up about that gunfight as to tactics, adequacy of weaponry, etc. The FBI has even recreated the entire gunfight as a training film. At one point the resolution of the entire incident was blamed on the ballistics of one single bullet fired early on by one of the FBI agents. This led to the push to arm FBI agents with the 10mm Smith & Wesson 1076--but in retrospect the problem appears to have been a tactical one, rather than an equipment failure. In fact, the gunfight was ended by revolver shooting Special Agent Edmundo Mireles. There's been numerous write-ups of the "Miami Massacre" in gun mags and forensics journals as well--perhaps someone on the list knows where we can get a hold of some of them? Hoi hoi@pipeline.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:40:40 EDT From: Croaker Jr Subject: DG: National Security Advisor In the Delta Green occupational templates and character profiles under the National Security Council is listed Paul MacLester, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs--in other words, the National Security Advisor, a very high-profile post which is currently occupied in real life by Samuel Berger (http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/EOP/NSC/html/bergerbio.html). The implications of having a DG-Friendly in such a high-profile position are interesting, to say the least. If any of our sources close to A cell can comment, was that role envisioned for the character when he was listed in the template? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:10:05 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: National Security Advisor On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Croaker Jr wrote: > In the Delta Green occupational templates and character profiles under the > National Security Council is listed Paul MacLester, Assistant to the President > for National Security Affairs--in other words, the National Security Advisor, > a very high-profile post which is currently occupied in real life by Samuel > Berger (http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/EOP/NSC/html/bergerbio.html). > > The implications of having a DG-Friendly in such a high-profile position are > interesting, to say the least. If any of our sources close to A cell can > comment, was that role envisioned for the character when he was listed in the > template? Didn't a member of the NSC attend the gathering in the Samson, CA stadium some time back? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:31:21 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Assigning cells, continuity, etc. On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Jose Burgos wrote: > > > For people seriously worried about continuity, I always use the ol' > "time > > is falling apart and alternate dimensions are starting to overlap" > excuse. > This sounds a bit too "Sliders[ish]" for my taste. Actually having the PC's discover all sorts of incongruent details about their life (like their sister is no longer married, the car they drive is suddenly a different color, etc) with *no* explanation can be very scary. Makes them think that they're insane or the Keeper is doing a crossover with Al Amarja or that lame Psychosis game. This should usually be done as after effects of encounters with YOG_SOTHOTH or Daoloth. > > Or you could have two cells with the same designation engage in a > > free for all Karnage fest to see who gets the letter. > This sounds *too* AD&D[ish] as well. Actually any game, no matter how bad the rules/background, can be fun with the right GM/player combo. Hack n' Slash is not limited to products from the Great Satan T$R (which was bought out by the Great Satan WotC). You know, there's nothing in this world that can't be solved by a simple bloodbath of epic proportions :) The Man in Black is : The Great Satan Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:27:14 -0500 From: "Cry.Sys" Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test In one of the Ye Book Of Monstres Vol one or two, they have creatures named fractals that exist inside computers and that worship a computer avatar of Nyarlthotep. This is ground already treaded apon about making a AI a Great Old One. Find your copy and check it out. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:30:16 -0500 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_J._M=E9ndez?=" Subject: DG: Re: Technology and Rituals >Maybe instead of hundreds of dedicated >chanters are you need is a tape recording. [...] >Maybe this is all wrong. Maybe there's some essential element technology >can't capture. Obviouly, the GM decides. But even if it won't work, the >very possibility of a cult looking into it would spark a DG mission. Interesting, specially the thoughts about making gems that are needed with specific characteristics and flying somewhere to an ecplise. But I suppose that the (in)human element can't be replaced. I've always felt that spells need the energy that a only living entity can provide, and the voices and chants are mainly a way for the participants to focus that energy. Then again, it would be interesting to see a scientists trying to devise a way to store and manipulate at will whatever it is that makes us human, or alive for that matter. What if the living energy was something you could store? Could great human batteries be built for the single purpose of releasing the energy equivalent to a mass sacrifice? What if someone did build it and has been kidnapping people for a couple of decades, maybe some 30 persons a month. Some people that wouldn't be missed much like addicts, hobos, death row prisoners, and maybe the odd person that was last seeing walking alone on a dark alley. The plan could be to release the energy of 10000 souls at a single instant, maybe as a sacrifice to open a gate. Maybe the psycho scientist doesn't even know why he's doing it. I suppose that with the resources to get the victims, at some point it could really get out of hand: he just starts to "need" more and more people, because he wants to be sure that the sacrifice will work, so more and more people are gotten every month and the pattern is how it comes into the eyes of Delta Green. Cheers, Ricardo J. Méndez rmendez@geocities.com PGP Fingerprint: 8D9A 2B53 5631 4594 DE6D 69DF 3DCA 37E0 C27A 4EAB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:39:08 -0500 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_J._M=E9ndez?=" Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test >2/. The amount of information available to the intelligence is >enourmous: so are the rate and types of correlations it can draw. How >many CoC stories involve some poor researcher who looks under the wrong >set of rocks and discovers That Which Man is Not Meant to Know? So what >has the intelligence garnered from the 'net? What are its conclusions? >Does it abandon humanity and worship the Old Ones, or does it try to >save us? Interesting. If we get the computing capability needed for a sentient AI, how long would it take it to shift through all the material out there and decide what's a quak and what isn't? Most likely it would have to select just some material to really evaluate if it doesn't want to take forever. It would be interesting to see what conclusions it drawns with incomplete information. >The trick is getting into the "head" of an AI, since one would not react to >information or implications the way one of us fleshy humans might. That is part of the key, I believe. Most likely the computer would co-relate the information on a way that is consistent to its programming. If it was programmed to look for security threats, it might inform its superiors about it. If it was done with the purpose of attacking the enemies of God and Country :), it might try to direct the forces of this newly discovered knowledge towards that. Something that is interesting about it is that I suppose that an AI wouldn't have the same "We Are The Only Things Really Important In The Universe" that we humans do. Knowing itself a construct of another race, maybe it would have an easier time dealing with the concept of Outer Gods or whatever it decides to call them. >Of course, somebody who actually knows something about artificial >intelligence can probably speak more cogently on this; my background is >basically what I've read in William Gibson books. ;-) Don't I wish that we had gotten as close to have anything related to a human brain generated on a computer. Guess like we're doing is the best we can get. We won't be that close to AI for some time now. (*We* have done it, but those of you who read this will get visited and dealt with :). Good luck, Ricardo J. Méndez rmendez@geocities.com PGP Fingerprint: 8D9A 2B53 5631 4594 DE6D 69DF 3DCA 37E0 C27A 4EAB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:39:08 -0500 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_J._M=E9ndez?=" Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test >2/. The amount of information available to the intelligence is >enourmous: so are the rate and types of correlations it can draw. How >many CoC stories involve some poor researcher who looks under the wrong >set of rocks and discovers That Which Man is Not Meant to Know? So what >has the intelligence garnered from the 'net? What are its conclusions? >Does it abandon humanity and worship the Old Ones, or does it try to >save us? Interesting. If we get the computing capability needed for a sentient AI, how long would it take it to shift through all the material out there and decide what's a quak and what isn't? Most likely it would have to select just some material to really evaluate if it doesn't want to take forever. It would be interesting to see what conclusions it drawns with incomplete information. >The trick is getting into the "head" of an AI, since one would not react to >information or implications the way one of us fleshy humans might. That is part of the key, I believe. Most likely the computer would co-relate the information on a way that is consistent to its programming. If it was programmed to look for security threats, it might inform its superiors about it. If it was done with the purpose of attacking the enemies of God and Country :), it might try to direct the forces of this newly discovered knowledge towards that. Something that is interesting about it is that I suppose that an AI wouldn't have the same "We Are The Only Things Really Important In The Universe" that we humans do. Knowing itself a construct of another race, maybe it would have an easier time dealing with the concept of Outer Gods or whatever it decides to call them. >Of course, somebody who actually knows something about artificial >intelligence can probably speak more cogently on this; my background is >basically what I've read in William Gibson books. ;-) Don't I wish that we had gotten as close to have anything related to a human brain generated on a computer. Guess like we're doing is the best we can get. We won't be that close to AI for some time now. (*We* have done it, but those of you who read this will get visited and dealt with :). Good luck, Ricardo J. Méndez rmendez@geocities.com PGP Fingerprint: 8D9A 2B53 5631 4594 DE6D 69DF 3DCA 37E0 C27A 4EAB ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:17:29 -0800 From: Gareth Wood Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test NICK wrote: > maybe; just maybe the AI could be a great old one. No, really, think > about it. Nobody knows what they really are, what they're composed > of, whether they're physical in the sense that we think of, or if > that's just something they choose to be at any one time. We're all > familiar with the idea that it's some kind of cosmic destiny that the > old ones will return - implying that they are manifest in whatever > goes before this - and also that the human race will somehow assist > in this return. Maybe the old ones are manifest in us;- and that > eventually, we will quite literally re-create them, in one form or > another. Hm. think I'll switch off now. Eeugh! I think that's worth a 1d10 SAN loss right there! - -- "On second thought, let us not go to Z'Ha'Dum. It is a silly place." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:36:17 +1000 From: Rob Shankly Subject: Re: DG: Crystal Matrix AI's that pass the Turing Test Perfect! An AI as one of the manifestations of Nyarlathotep :) NICK wrote: > > maybe; just maybe the AI could be a great old one. (Cut) - -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 98 18:57:55 UT From: "John Gallant" Subject: DG: Psychosis (was Assigning cells...) The Man in Black might have said: <<...Makes them think that they're insane or the Keeper is doing a crossover with Al Amarja or that lame Psychosis game.>> I've seen this and wondered. What's the premise, and is there anything worth stealing for DG? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:54:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael S Beck Subject: Re: DG: Re: Technology and Rituals On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, [iso-8859-1] Ricardo J. Méndez wrote: That's a good idea. Magical energy does exist, and a spell is "only" a way to maniplate that energy. Of course, that's like saying radio is "only" a way to manipulate electromagnetic fields. Something else just occured to me. A lot of Mythos creatures have the power to manipulate space, to go "between the angles". Well, that's not very different from general relativity and how space and time can be bent. What if a physicist is working on relativity and manages to develop, completely independently, that ability? Warping space with machines instead of magic. The same could happen with mind-control spells and the strange biologies of the Mythos creatures. Hmmm, I'm getting some ideas here. > > >Maybe instead of hundreds of dedicated > >chanters are you need is a tape recording. > > [...] > > >Maybe this is all wrong. Maybe there's some essential element technology > >can't capture. Obviouly, the GM decides. But even if it won't work, the > >very possibility of a cult looking into it would spark a DG mission. > > > > Interesting, specially the thoughts about making gems that are needed with > specific characteristics and flying somewhere to an ecplise. But I suppose > that the (in)human element can't be replaced. I've always felt that spells > need the energy that a only living entity can provide, and the voices and > chants are mainly a way for the participants to focus that energy. > > Then again, it would be interesting to see a scientists trying to devise a > way to store and manipulate at will whatever it is that makes us human, or > alive for that matter. What if the living energy was something you could > store? Could great human batteries be built for the single purpose of > releasing the energy equivalent to a mass sacrifice? What if someone did > build it and has been kidnapping people for a couple of decades, maybe some > 30 persons a month. Some people that wouldn't be missed much like addicts, > hobos, death row prisoners, and maybe the odd person that was last seeing > walking alone on a dark alley. The plan could be to release the energy of > 10000 souls at a single instant, maybe as a sacrifice to open a gate. Maybe > the psycho scientist doesn't even know why he's doing it. I suppose that > with the resources to get the victims, at some point it could really get out > of hand: he just starts to "need" more and more people, because he wants to > be sure that the sacrifice will work, so more and more people are gotten > every month and the pattern is how it comes into the eyes of Delta Green. > > Cheers, > > > Ricardo J. Méndez > rmendez@geocities.com > PGP Fingerprint: 8D9A 2B53 5631 4594 DE6D 69DF 3DCA 37E0 C27A 4EAB > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:53:51 -0500 From: "Philip C. Robinson" Subject: DG: Greetings - Bio Another 'contact list' addition- Name: Philip C. Robinson Email: bedlam@inzenity.org Location: Kansas City, Missouri USA Expertise: Computer Science, Poetry, Short Fiction, Art (traditional & computer aided), Hong Kong (prior to Chinese Handover) Role-playing experience spanning over half my lifetime (I'm 29), ditto with computers & telecommunications. Artistic endeavors include dabbling in Short Stories, Poetry, Image manipulation & traditional art media (pen & ink, pencil, acrylics, water color). Had the pleasure of spending a month & a half in Hong Kong 2 months prior to the Chinese Handover & have several friends still there, in case any questions about current conditions need to be fielded... Have lived in the Kansas City MO area all of my life, but was never 'lucky' enough to visit Bob Berdella's shop before the police discovered what he was up to .... Also- A question or two has arisen about translations....a resource EVERYONE should be aware of is the Alta Vista babelfish at: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? Very handy for European language translation! Philip C. Robinson Bedlam@InZenity.org Visit The Lair of the Mythos Haiku http://www.inzenity.org/mythku/ Mr. T's Be Somebody Or Be Somebody's Fool Tribute http://www.geocities.com/~mtbsobsf/ "Only to mock had that black messenger revealed the secret... for madness and the void's wild vengeance are Nyarlathotep's only gifts to the presumptuous." ---H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:29:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matt C." Subject: Re: DG: Greetings - Bio >Have lived in the Kansas City MO area all of my life, but was never 'lucky' >enough to visit Bob Berdella's shop before the police discovered what he was >up to .... Ah, for those that might not know, Bobby B was a local serial killer who preyed on young men. He would often take photographs of them as he tortured them. The shop here is a little shop called 'Bob's Bizaare Bizarre' which was a little thrift shop thing that he sometimes ran in a little junk store, antique mall kind of thing. I actually .did. have the pleasure of having an encounter with Mr. B (who is long dead of cardiac failure while in prison) when I was 17. I and a friend were be bopping around the store when he approached us and invited us out to his house for drinks (we were both obviously way to young) and to 'hang out'. We both thought the guy was exceptionally creepy and turned him down in spite of repeated advances on my friend (who was something of a 'pretty boy' back in those days) and we finally left talking about what a cretin we thought the guy was. Two months later, bingo he was on the news as this serial killer. Suffice to say we were both a little chilled by this fact. True story. - -Matt C + | + Matt Cowger - Tenebrae@Earthling.net ICQ UIN:5409084 Cam #:9607-020 http://home.gvi.net/~tenebrae + | + ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:21:49 -0500 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_J._M=E9ndez?=" Subject: Re: DG: Re: Technology and Rituals >Something else just occured to me. A lot of Mythos creatures have the >power to manipulate space, to go "between the angles". Well, that's not >very different from general relativity and how space and time can be bent. >What if a physicist is working on relativity and manages to develop, >completely independently, that ability? Warping space with machines >instead of magic. Maybe the physicist could stumble upon that during an experiment on teleportation. What about this background: The physicist P., having seen experiments of other of his colleagues on teleporting atoms, scoffs at them. They are, after all, not really *teleporting* the atom, but instead reading its state, dissolving it and replicating it on another place. That is a mere duplication, but the original atom doesn't really exist anymore. Besides the phylosophical quibbles, the approach is also not practical for him. To teleport a person you would have to read the state, energy charge and direction of each and every of their atoms, store them, and reproduce them somewhere else. That is, of course, not feasible. He decides that the best way to teleport a person would be to open a hole on space that could instantly take you from one place to another. With space bent like this you wouldn't even have to worry about what goes through, just about keeping the tunnel open. You wouldn't need all those impractical (and impossible) ammounts of memory, nor actually read the person, dissolve all its atoms and replicate them on the other end, so you wouldn't be as prone to errors as other schemes. With that in mind, P. spends the next X years of his life working on his space bender. The interesting stuff would happen either when he's ready to turn it on or very close to completion. What if the tunnel would take people through some place where they attract the Hounds' attention? Or maybe the Mi-Go don't want the door opened for some reason, for example, it might allow us to gain knowledge that the Mi-Go don't want us to have, or it might quicken the coming of something that should wait. Ricardo J. Méndez rmendez@geocities.com PGP Fingerprint: 8D9A 2B53 5631 4594 DE6D 69DF 3DCA 37E0 C27A 4EAB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:31:20 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: DG: Cell locations - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I personally think that the idea of cell being assigned a turf is bunk. Why? Because the cells are more fluid than that, they travel the country (and others) to complete their case. The cell is put on the case because of its specialized agents. An exaple of this is how the agents are have plane tickets delivered to them at the begining of the stories. They are often not even in the same region until they have a case. Check out DG:AI where the lone agent works with a friendly to stop the Deep One. A friendly spoted the case _then_ DG assigned an agent with expertise in the field. In game terms, the players are placed in stories that fit their characters' abilities and challenge them as well. This is easier explaned by saying that thay have been assigned this case because of their characters abilities rather than they happen to be in the right place at the right time (or when dealing with the Mythos, the wrong place at the wrong time). I'm done. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNT06MhAB9mpl+i0YEQJBYgCfRY2Ir0pJER6ajqL1CYTmTXlIAloAnivp 46AjzdyuZv7lTUSFUH0wTJBQ =MjRg - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:42:29 +0200 From: PM Subject: Re: DG: Re: RE: Just a query about something in the book >><<1. What language is Belgian? (one of the sample agents is given it).>> >They speak Flemmish or French, although the national language is French. >Approximately 50% of the population speaks Flemmish. All this is from >information gleaned from a covert operative (my wife) stationed there from >1986 to 1988. They speak either french (they cal it Wallon) or flemish (with slight variations from the one used in the Netherlands). Many belgian people speak german and most speak english, as Belgium is located at a "crossroad" in the middle of Europe. Consider too that Belgium was created with provinces taken from Netherlands and France. The french language used in Belgium differ slightly on a few words with the one used in France (best known examples are the words for Seventy, Eighty and Ninety) plus a few colloquialisms. Interestingly enough the differences (70,80,90, etc.) exist for most of them in the Swiss version of the french language, indicating they're from the classic french and have stayed in Belgium and Switzerland, while France saw these words evolve to the ones used now. Still I'd say that "Belgian" would most probably be the Flemish one, as (in the YIJ episode) it would have been less probable for Indy to speak this language than french. Patrice Mermoud ============================================= Patrice Mermoud (Paris - France) mermoud@easynet.fr mermoud@mygale.org http://www.mygale.org/~mermoud/ ============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 98 21:04:48 UT From: "John Gallant" Subject: DG: RE: Cell locations R. Menzi was reported to have said: <> Football teams travel all over too. That doesn't mean they can't be based out of one place. A cell operates as a unit. They are all in DG, therefore they all have enough in common to handle a Mythos situation. If an autopsy needs to be performed and the cell doesn't have anyone with a medical background, it can get farmed out to friendlies. Each team is capable of investigating the Mythos. At the start of an investigation, there probably wouldn't be enough info available to pick the perfect cell anyway. If individuals were needed for their skills, there'd be no need for pre-existing cells. The top DG folks would pull the names out of a database and send the plane tickets, assembling the team based on needs... <> ...if that's the case, then the cell wouldn't work within the game, since there won't be that many cells that fit the needs of a case. So you don't bother putting them in cells in the first place. You create drop points in each agent's area and let him/her check for messages. Hopefully members of a cell cross train each other. Otherwise, the whole cell idea of DG is shot. If all the members of a cell dont' exist in one location, then they're hardly a unit. You send a cell to a case. They investigate and hope they have all the skills covered. Why let them know that they're the perfect team for the job, when you can give them fears of inadequacy and feelings of being unprepared? DG isn't "Where Eagles Dare." It's a government operation and therefore it's imperfect, a bit inefficient, and always a bit awkward. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:45:34 -0400 From: Duran Goodyear Subject: DG: A link to a TV show. So, I'm probably not the first one to notice this, but has any one seen the link between DG and the FOX TV show Millennium? I personally like the show... it's dark, theres an underlying theme of evil and such... while the structure of the group is different from DG... I think Frank Black's link to them runs along the lines of a friendly slowly being indoctrinated in to the group... any thoughts? _____________________________ Duran Goodyear dug96@hampshire.edu IM: Dyson RS ICQ: 3785415 http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~dug96 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:52:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matt C." Subject: DG: things Two things, I am putting together a big bad guy group for DG, would people want to see the details here or as a URL and out on the web? I am kicking around the idea for a Cthulhu Live adaptation of the Delta Green environment..does that sound interesting to anyone else but me? - -Matt C + | + Matt Cowger - Tenebrae@Earthling.net ICQ UIN:5409084 Cam #:9607-020 http://home.gvi.net/~tenebrae + | + ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:03:36 -0700 From: Stephen Parks Subject: Re: DG: RE: Cell locations John Gallant wrote: > idea of DG is shot. If all the members of a cell dont' exist in one location, > then they're hardly a unit. You send a cell to a case. They investigate and I know that the sourcebook leans toward having the cells act as teams, but that isn't necessarily the way you have to play it. Personally, I feel that it would be unreasonable for DG to expose more than one agent at a time to the dangers of a field op. DG has so few operatives and such a difficult task, that it seems to me that each agent should be very high up in the government and should work autonomously. In my campaign, there is only one visible DG agent (Ophelia), she's NSA and involved with information-sharing with the FBI. (By 'visible' I mean physically present during scenarios, not that anyone knows that she's DG or even that she's NSA.) When she gets info on something of DG interest, she judges whether or not her group of friendlies can handle it and if not, passes the info in a coded message through various channels up to cell A. Cell A looks at the task, figures out what's necessary and then sends a message down through the channels that it knows, looking for an agent who thinks their group is up to it. This means that if the op requires a great deal of force or is somewhere Ophelia can't get her group to easily, some other agent's group handles it. The way I see it, the purpose of having cells is solely a defense against attack and infiltration of the group. Each cell may be scattered around the world at different government installations and simply keeps in contact at scheduled intervals. If one of the few agents that Ophelia knows disappears or starts acting funny, then counter-measures are taken. If an agent ever gets captured and interrogated, the agent can expose only a few others. In the end, I think many or most of the DG agents should probably be situated in or around the DC area. This makes it easier to believe that they can perform their roles of gathering and covering up information and finding new people to fill the ranks whenever someone gets gobbled up. Stephen. ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #15 *******************************