From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #37 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Tuesday, June 9 1998 Volume 01 : Number 037 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:41:20 EDT From: Olaughing@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: real life references... In a message dated 98-06-08 18:11:18 EDT, you write: > ... > >"American Psycho" posters, coffee-table books of murder scene > >photographs, etc. > >A great place to hang out, since you can watch inexperienced shoppers > >come in and react to some of the merchandise. The staff are all pleasant > >suburban types who read gardening magazines. Makes you wonder. > > Makes me wonder what they might be using as fertilizer for their gardens.... > Oh good. I was afraid I was the only person thinking that. John Goodrich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:25:00 -0400 From: "John P. Yuda" Subject: Re: DG: DG site directory Tell you what. I can get the directory up on a webpage, but I can't promise how quickly I can do it. I have a bit of a full plate right now. But, if you all want to send me any contact info you want: name, phone, email, ICQ, location, etc. I'll get some preliminary design in and have it up in a week or so. You can just email that stuff to my work email (jyuda@omegafinancial.com) and put something to the effect of "DG Contact List" in the subject. Yuda At 10:38 PM 6/8/98 EDT, you wrote: > Shane wrote that he would like to have everyone's Delta Green websites to >add to his own and this reminded me of something those of us on the Rolemaster >list have done. We sent our names, locations, Roleplaying games we play, >emails and ICQ #s to the list and one of the members is listing them on his >web page. If anyone has space for this information on their page and if >people are interested, this would be a helpful list to access when in need of >local gamers or as a contact list when moving. I look forward to hearing >everyone's opinion of such a list. I don't have a page up right now or I >would offer to collect this information. > >Thomas Woodall >Imandos@aol.com >ICQ# 5834343 > > - ------------------------------------------------------- John P. Yuda 138 S. Atherton St. apt. 720 State College PA 16801 (814)865-5078 yuda@psu.edu jyuda@omegafinancial.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:43:27 +0100 From: Nick Subject: DG: Religions and the like interesting thing about Buddhism, and various related eastern religions, is the way they dovetail nicely into some of th more depressing western philosophy, like Schopenhauer (who actually died with a copy of the Tibetan book of the dead under his pillow) and even Nietzsche (in that he accepts Schopenhauer's metaphysics, but trys to deny the consequences for 'life'), and of course also quantum physics (no, honestly). All these areas raise lots of interesting points about personal identity and the nature of reality with plenty of scope for the cosmic horror angle (the world is just will - the world we experience and know is simply a manifestation of that will so it can act upon itself). Not that i'm suggesting, even for a second, that we should be associating respectable religions like Buddhism with cosmic horror, of course. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:47:14 EDT From: WinningerR@aol.com Subject: DG: Re: Black Man With a Horn >>>"Black Man With a Horn", a novella by T.E.D. Klein. It's available in Klein's collection DARK GODS, and I believe it's also in some other anthologies--perhaps someone else knows which ones. be seeing you, Alphonse<<< These days, it's probably easiest to find this excellent novella in the otherwise ridiculous CTHULHU 2000 anthology available from Arkham House. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:19:08 -0500 From: Nightstar Subject: Re: DG: X-Files ".......diminutive but strikingly attractive and erudite red-haired female partner......" OH YEAH!!!!!! - ----------------------------------------------------------- Finally, a light at the end of the tunnel......heh heh heh. Nightstar ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:31:44 EDT From: Imandos@aol.com Subject: DG: DG Contact List John P. Yuda wrote in response to my question regarding a player list: >Tell you what. I can get the directory up on a webpage, but I can't >promise how quickly I can do it. I have a bit of a full plate right now. >But, if you all want to send me any contact info you want: name, phone, >email, ICQ, location, etc. I'll get some preliminary design in and have it >up in a week or so. You can just email that stuff to my work email >(jyuda@omegafinancial.com) and put something to the effect of "DG Contact >List" in the subject. Thanks for responding. I hope we can get several people to send in the information. Here is my info: Thomas Woodall Imandos@aol.com ICQ# 5834343 Games played: COC/Delta Green, Rolemaster, AD&D, Cyberpunk, White Wolf's storyteller system, Gurps, MERP, various other games. Address: Morgantown,WV ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:30:48 -0500 From: Nightstar Subject: Re: DG: Christianity and Nyarlathotep (Ranting) At 12:31 AM 6/10/98 +0900, you wrote: >>Despite this, careless speculation about the views of Jesus or the early >>Christians could easily be disrespectful toward the most cherished beliefs of >>some people. Perhaps I should have spoken up when the Scientologists (or >>those weird Italian cultists) were getting hammered. > >>Please carry on, gentlemen. I'm just asking that you avoid a "flip" tone when >>you discuss controversial subjects. > > I have to admit that your message made me stop and pause. Please >understand that I had absolutely no intention of offending anyone. Do keep >in mind, however, that we are talking about a completely fictional universe. >Nyarlothep & Co. are completely derived from the works of various pulp >authors. As such, I was commenting on a what-if situation for a completely >fictional situation. I am not hammering on anyone; I merely speak _as >though_ they were real for the purposes of our little cybernetic kaffeklatch. > Secondly, I would like to point out that we have cheerfully >discussed trepannation (sp?), torture, and a wide variety of violent >situations on this mailing list with nary a squeak of protest from anyone. >I'd a bit worried if people suddenly become offended by an entirely >speculative discussion on religion. > >Sincerely and Respectfully, > >Jay > >Gibber gibber, squeak squeak > > > I bet the Big N is lovin' this! - ----------------------------------------------------------- Finally, a light at the end of the tunnel......heh heh heh. Nightstar ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:49:51 -0400 From: Viktor Haag Subject: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greetings list, One of the issues that seems to make a great plot device on "legal-drama" TV is the matter of jurisdiction for enforcing the law. For example, I understand that Kidnapping is considered to fall under the Federal jurisdiction, and therefore the local FBI agents have jursidiction over the local law enforcement boys. The DG book gives a brief list of the sorts of crimes that Fibbies consider their turf, but little indication of how these jurisdicational matters are supposed to be handled. Anyone from the American contingent care to give a brief precis? Perhaps it would help if I revealed what I had in mind here... I'm working on a scenario wherein MJ12 is shipping some sensitive cargo on a standard military transport. What's supposed to be in the truck? Oh, I don't know, rocket parts, M16s, ammunition boxes, land-mines -- doesn't really matter, I don't think. What *does* matter is what's *really* in the truck: several sealed containers containing dangerous organic material of a genetically questionable nature, if you know what I mean (and I think that you do)... Now, suppose some local militia outfit were to hear about this shipment, and decide to hijack it. So, Billy McBob and his cronies hold up the transport, whack the guards, and make off with 98 cases of standard issue army weapon x, and 2 cases of decidedly non-standard issue MJ12 contraband y. What happens next?? Does ATF get involved to recover all these weapons? Does the army handle it? And how do our intrepid agents get involved? Certainly MJ12 is going to want their two boxes of oreo cookies back. Presumably Alpha cell wants to commandeer the cookies in question to see what MJ12's cooking up? Waco anyone? Agent Eduard - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNX11mirplIwlWTDJEQKmNgCfQkD03V7uZVU0JvBhZQosiD008dQAoMAb km1B7e6ux9ycMg+8yaPzQDoz =BAr5 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:56:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Illuminatus Primus Subject: Re: DG: DG site directory - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > We sent our names, locations, Roleplaying games we play, emails > and ICQ #s to the list At this particular juncture in time, ICQ should be considered as a compromised communications source, and not used for messages of a sensitive nature. The general public is just now catching on to the backdoors that certain other government agencies have programmed into the software. http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/12758.html has some background on the matter. Note that with proper access to the source & protocol, it would not be too hard to encrypt the pipe, much like ssh works. You could also very easily hook it into a PGP wrapper, and gain up to 1024-bit security. Of course, this is counter-productive to the agendas of certain other government agencies... - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNX13KMVnIkW8IEjpAQH+AQQAw8TcD8AR5A7pn7LRnLNXWR47RVt5+IK2 w+H9E0u+LZaebzKzepqGLenIvit20XW9Snl+AsNg1MG8wiviedrVIETFb1kPgXya ox5Px8CIL97vmbPB50jKfbBRb3JStx8vRT6P5iNuc9CNqOeBhDQJow4LU07zJRpn 0V/43w28Gw4= =jFOV - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:04:48 EDT From: SteveL1979@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement In a message dated 98-06-09 13:52:39 EDT, you write: << For example, I understand that Kidnapping is considered to fall under the Federal jurisdiction, and therefore the local FBI agents have jursidiction over the local law enforcement boys.>> This isn't correct, I'm afraid; it's a good example of how TV often gets things wrong. Kidnapping is a state crime, within the jurisdiction of the state where it takes place. However, if the kidnapper crosses state lines with his victim, or if the victim is a federal official, *then* it's a state crime. As a basic rule of thumb, the feds have jurisdiction ONLY over those things specifically assigned to them as violations of federal law. The states have jurisdiction over everything else. The way Congress is these days, the reach of federal criminal jurisdiction has expanded a lot, but it's still more limited than that of the states. <> There are lots of potential jurisdictional conflicts here. Since it involves the military and federal property, it's definitely a federal crime. The US Army would bring in its Criminal Investigation division, and probably also seek the help of the BATF and FBI. There may also have been purely state crimes committed during the attack, which the state would investigate and prosecute. The most likely happenstance is a "task force" with representatives from all agencies involved to work together to solve the crime. How well they work together is, of course, up to you as GM -- and a good source of quasi-political dilemmas for the PCs. Steve Long ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:19:49 -0400 From: "Alexander Beckers" Subject: RE: DG: DG site directory > At this particular juncture in time, ICQ should be considered > as a compromised communications source, and not used for messages > of a sensitive nature. The general public is just now catching > on to the backdoors that certain other government agencies have > programmed into the software. The most secure method of using ICQ would be to use its file-send feature to send PGP encrypted copies of any potentially hazardous information. Alex Beckers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 13:25:24 -0400 From: Mark Edwards Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement At 01:49 PM 6/9/98 -0400, Viktor Haag wrote: >I'm working on a scenario wherein MJ12 is shipping some sensitive >cargo on a standard military transport. What's supposed to be in the >truck? Oh, I don't know, rocket parts, M16s, ammunition boxes, >land-mines -- doesn't really matter, I don't think. What *does* matter >is what's *really* in the truck: several sealed containers containing >dangerous organic material of a genetically questionable nature, if >you know what I mean (and I think that you do)... > >Now, suppose some local militia outfit were to hear about this >shipment, and decide to hijack it. So, Billy McBob and his cronies >hold up the transport, whack the guards, and make off with 98 cases of >standard issue army weapon x, and 2 cases of decidedly non-standard >issue MJ12 contraband y. > >What happens next?? > >Does ATF get involved to recover all these weapons? Does the army >handle it? And how do our intrepid agents get involved? Certainly MJ12 >is going to want their two boxes of oreo cookies back. Presumably >Alpha cell wants to commandeer the cookies in question to see what >MJ12's cooking up? Waco anyone? Initially, the question of BATF agents moving in depends upon the contents of the "official cargo manifest" i.e. what was said to be on the truck. If the manifest says firearms, BATF will probably get involved, however, i think that Army CID or FIB will have primary jurisdiction. In any case, the individuals actually on the case will be MJ12, therefore the BATF, CID, or FBI question really is really their cover story anyway. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 13:23:29 -0500 From: David Harrison Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement < For example, I understand that Kidnapping is considered to fall under > the Federal jurisdiction, and therefore the local FBI agents have > jursidiction over the local law enforcement boys.>> > > This isn't correct, I'm afraid; it's a good example of how TV often gets >things wrong. Kidnapping is a state crime, within the jurisdiction of the >state where it takes place. However, if the kidnapper crosses state lines >with his victim, or if the victim is a federal official, *then* it's a state >crime. Though this is basically true, there is one slight correction to be made. The FBI can become involved in kidnappings automatically after 24 hours. It is assumed after this time that state lines have been crossed and it falls under federal jurisdiction. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:29:54 -0400 From: "Alexander Beckers" Subject: RE: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement > This isn't correct, I'm afraid; it's a good example of how TV often gets > things wrong. Kidnapping is a state crime, within the jurisdiction of the > state where it takes place. However, if the kidnapper crosses state lines > with his victim, or if the victim is a federal official, *then* > it's a state > crime. I thought the Lindberg Law stated that the FBI could take over in a kidnapping case after a certain amount of time, on the assumption that by that time, the kidnappers would have crossed state lines. Alex Beckers DG Friendly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:29:14 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement > From: Viktor Haag > To: "Delta Green (E-mail)" > Subject: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:49:51 -0400 > Reply-to: Delta Green List > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > snip > For example, I understand that Kidnapping is considered to fall under > the Federal jurisdiction, and therefore the local FBI agents have > jursidiction over the local law enforcement boys. > > The DG book gives a brief list of the sorts of crimes that Fibbies snip > I'm working on a scenario wherein MJ12 is shipping some sensitive > cargo on a standard military transport. What's supposed to be in the > truck? Oh, I don't know, rocket parts, M16s, ammunition boxes, > land-mines -- doesn't really matter, I don't think. What *does* matter > is what's *really* in the truck: several sealed containers containing > dangerous organic material of a genetically questionable nature, if > you know what I mean (and I think that you do)... I watched an episode of the Outer Limits last night with the same plot. Some militia group "Lightning Dawn" IIRC, hijack this truck believing it to contain stinger missiles, and it actually contains an alien in cryogenic freeze. Of course they let it out and have to face it apparently it was the only part of ship that crashed in New Mexico to survive, it was supposed to be the sentient cooling system for the ship which was a collection of symbiotic organisms, if that's the radiator what's the exhaust like;-) Anyway not living in America I'd assume that the Army who were shipping this thing to Russia for storage, would be all over the incident. In the DG rulebook aren't there special Army investigators for this situation who would take over in the interests of National Security. In the UK this would come under the Defense of the Realm Act, basically the Army does what it wants and perhaps apologises but dosen't explain later. In the episode they thought they'd killed this creature (which was a superconducting superfluid nice alliteration I thought if redundant in the decription a superfluid is superconducting by its nature I think) by sticking a neon sign into it and electrifying it (more complicated than that something to do with the neon interfering with another gas but I forget) 2 people got out alive 1 of the militia sterotype nice guy looking out for his brother who made a bad choice, and the army Captain lo and behold another sterotype - career army woman who sees that people can be outside the army and still be worthwhile. All together now AAAWWWW! Anyway in a usual outer limits style end the thing had reproduced and the episode closed with a frozen motorcycle cop inside the building (very very very Terminator 2 even down to the shades!) Maybe someone can remember the Episode title and you could check it out on video. Anyway why not just handle it as a cross jurisdictional major incident involving representatives from various law enforcement communities, wait a mo this is begining to sound familier. Rob J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:52:21 -0400 From: "Elliot A. Rushing" Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement Steve Long (Hey, Steve!) wrote: > This isn't correct, I'm afraid; it's a good example of how TV often gets >things wrong. Kidnapping is a state crime, within the jurisdiction of the >state where it takes place. However, if the kidnapper crosses state lines >with his victim, or if the victim is a federal official, *then* it's a state [erm, bet you meant "federal"] >crime. > > As a basic rule of thumb, the feds have jurisdiction ONLY over those things >specifically assigned to them as violations of federal law. The states have >jurisdiction over everything else. The way Congress is these days, the reach >of federal criminal jurisdiction has expanded a lot, but it's still more >limited than that of the states. Steve, you beat me to the punch! ;) Another concept to toss in is that often crimes violate both federal and state law, and federal and state/local agencies may have competing agendas -- often, too, in real life, while the federal government has the higher authority (if applicable), often state/local agencies have the practical upper hand, especially larger agencies (e.g., the FBI has around 2500-3500 agents, NYPD has *38,000* officers) in terms of resources, pull, and especially information/informant base. Yet another point is that often federal agencies, due to limited resources, have an annoying tendency to "handle" federal investigations (particularly RE bank heists) by asking the local agencies to investigate (which we do anyway -- state law, remember?) and forward our reports/arrest results to them. Of course, the newspaper reports always say the FBI solved the crime. ;) Gotta love that. ;) > There are lots of potential jurisdictional conflicts here. Since it >involves the military and federal property, it's definitely a federal crime. >The US Army would bring in its Criminal Investigation division, and probably >also seek the help of the BATF and FBI. There may also have been purely state >crimes committed during the attack, which the state would investigate and >prosecute. The most likely happenstance is a "task force" with >representatives from all agencies involved to work together to solve the >crime. How well they work together is, of course, up to you as GM -- and a >good source of quasi-political dilemmas for the PCs. Good analysis, Steve -- actually, the task force concept is *very* much in vogue right now, and could be used to justify so *many* otherwise laughable combinations in Delta Green. ;) It also works very well in real life, but factionalism can and does happen. Take care, Elliot. - ---- Elliot A. Rushing Deputy Sheriff/Sheriff's Counsel Union County Sheriff's Office, Monroe, NC -- USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:06:31 -0400 From: "Elliot A. Rushing" Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement Howdy, Alex! > I thought the Lindberg Law stated that the FBI could take over in a >kidnapping case after a certain amount of time, on the assumption that by >that time, the kidnappers would have crossed state lines. While the concept of "taking over" an investigation has a certain attraction, and while turf battles can and do occur rarely (usually to the detriment of everyone), usually in RL, by the time a kidnapping case has gotten to the point where the FBI will be called in, you're going to have multiple local agencies (perhaps in different states) already involved and pulling their collective hair out, as well as the potential unofficial involvement/ harrassment (forgive me) of concerned citizen's groups (especially if it's custody or domestic violence-related). In these circumstances, generally everyone needs all the help they can get, and the "task force" mentality comes into play. The feds have superior tracking technology, computer resources, and logistic and/or consulting capabilities, while the locals usually have superior (you guessed it) local contacts and info. Still, the world of Delta Green seems ideally suited for turf battles, although we're trying to steer away from that in our reality. ;) Take care, Elliot. - ---- Elliot Rushing Cop lawyer (or is it Lawyer Cop?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:32:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Viktor Haag wrote: > Now, suppose some local militia outfit were to hear about this > shipment, and decide to hijack it. So, Billy McBob and his cronies > hold up the transport, whack the guards, and make off with 98 cases of > standard issue army weapon x, and 2 cases of decidedly non-standard > issue MJ12 contraband y. A large part of it will be a military investigation, but the FBI *will* be involved; possibly ATF, once the manifest is known (I suppose the MJ12 Happy Meals *won't* be listed ), but certainly every local/state law-enforcement type in the area. This was seen not too long ago, when a truck carrying USAF (IIRC) air-to-air missiles wandered away in Texas; the civvie contract-driver dumped the trailer in a lumber-yard, and cruised off. What I remember said that he may have been connected with militia-type activities, and that possibly the lumber-yard was the drop-site... but i don't remember for certain. This was roughly the same period of time that that A-10 went missing out of Arizona, and was found in Colorado - near the site of the Okie-City bombing trial. Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:54:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Request for Asst. On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Phil A Posehn wrote: > Does anybody out there know where to obtain remaindered copies of the > JANE'S books? The new ones are WAY too expensive but out of date copies > would be perfect for GMs! I keep getting a remaindered-books catalog in the mail - they've had Janes books, pretty damn cheap. It'll take me a while to dig it out, tho... Edward R Hamilton, Bookseller Falls Village CT 06031-5000 My yellowing 12 AUG 1994 copy of his paper lists JANES AMERICAN FIGHTING SHIPS OF THE 20th CENTURY at $19.95, and JANES INFANTRY WEAPONS '91-'92 is $89.95, original list of $210. (767 pages ) H'wever, either they have limited stocks or this stuff is *popular*, because they're not in every catalog (big newspaper thing, about 30-32 pages or so) and when seen, don't stay long. Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:17:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Illuminatus Primus Subject: RE: DG: DG site directory - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > The most secure method of using ICQ would be to use its file-send > feature to send PGP encrypted copies of any potentially hazardous > information. Going to turn off DG Mode here, and act like a normal person for a while. :) While this is true, the problems with ICQ are much more basic. Due to the inherent lack of security measures in the program itself, and the proprietary protocol used for the application, even simply *being* on ICQ opens you up to any number of serious hacks, from sent-data sniffers to spoofed password redefinitions. The Wired article I referred to at http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/12758.html goes over in pretty gruesome detail how badly non-secure ICQ is. I have access to the rootshell mailing list as well, and there's quite a lot of annoyance over these problems, as they were found, duplicated, and acknowledged MONTHS ago, and yet nothing has been done to fix them. It would be in folks' best interest to stay off of ICQ as much as possible. ICQ hacks are the current craze of the new generation of pseudo-hackers, as the exploits are widely available off of silly haX0r web sites. Back to DG Mode... AOL has announced that they're buying Mirabilis, the creators of ICQ. There's already 12 million ICQ users outside of AOL. AOL takes over the codebase, re-wires it into AOL, but yet, doesn't fix the backdoors, allowing any number of various agencies access to the information. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNX20I8VnIkW8IEjpAQEYnAP/Vcm9BgSSZkvGniZUlWxJl4POEBaCqejK Sa7x8+STAGabmaSnXKPQjA8DYRE9sXPwWFUqk98E4ylofSXozH8+tgn1cE0AGkYF Pngf7lLjc2qn1ZW65TZkJlH3BfPE4CeDkXV//gpF4rmgABJ596L7XQdAke97YKP0 b0b20UQKtIY= =k68J - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:40:27 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: DG: Kult << SO! Here's my question. If that little kid in "At Your Door" can have his mind's eye opened, what about the players? If satori or gnosis or whatever are achievable in CoC, what is the effect, and what's the mechanic? I've been considering a limited crossover with Kult >> I'm designing a Kult/DG crossover scenario as we speak. Kult crosses over with CoC very easily if you monkey with a couple of the basic truths just a little. Viz, certain cults might well THINK that by following the paths of Light or Dark that they can attain immortality and regain humanity's lost godhead and operate under that assumption. Conversions are an intriguing process: some of the gods and godlike figures in Kult are gimmes, with obvious Lovecraftian equivalents, but the more interesting angle is to compare what the deluded cultists THINK they follow with what they really do follow. What the local satanist calls Astaroth might be a little bit different from what the satanist on the other side of the globe calls Astaroth. Giving the players the chance to buy into the cultist's line of how to attain immortal powers is a very intriguing thought. If anyone on this list winds up playing in my scenario when it's done, please forget you read it. ;-) The otherworld from Kult can be presented as-is or with some modifications. The main thing is, the players SHOULD be confused as heck about its true origin and nature. Is it a facet of the Dreamlands? Is it somehow related to Lost Carcosa? Is it someplace on another planet? Is it a figment of their imaginations? Is it a shared perception foisted on them by some psychic enemy or bugaboo? Is it exactly what is described in the Kult book? Keep guessing, Agents... << you could introduce the players to either a psychic or psychic = researcher who has stumbled onto some way to trigger the development of = these abilities. >> Like I mentioned (maybe) the other day, this is a field that is ripe for development in a DG campaign. Another one I'm writing deals broadly with attempts to shape/guide human psychic development and powers, and the implications of those attempts from a Cthulhu Mythos point of view. It is well established in Mythos literature that human possess noncorporeal souls that can exist beyond physical death and can even move from one body to another; it is interesting to note that among the beings of the Mythos this seems to be a rare capacity. This could mean that humans have unknown powers which might save them... or it could mean that they will have that much clearer understanding of the bitter truth when all the pieces are connected and the stars come right. Shane Ivey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:40:29 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Jurisdiction in law enforcement << Does ATF get involved to recover all these weapons? Does the army handle it? And how do our intrepid agents get involved? >> The US is governed by layer upon layer of bureaucracy, each of which has its own goals and agenda and police: municipality police, county sheriffs, state police, Department of Justice, Department of the Treasury, Department of Defense, CIA... As others have made clear, in the case you described any number of different agencies could get involved, most likely resulting in a task force to try to coordinate their activities. Sometimes those work beautifully; sometimes they don't. In a case where you have military investigators as well as federal law enforcement and state and local police involved, the differences might stand out and cause some problems. (Fun for the Keeper, hair-wrenching for the players!) One phenomenon that is often portrayed on various crime dramas is the turf rivalry that can crop up, particularly between local and federal law enforcement. The FBI and the New York City Police Department have a particularly long history of that kind of feud, stemming from J. Edgar Hoover's glory-hounding heyday. This should certainly be the case with both Delta Green and MJ-12 directly involved in the recovery operation! Both covert groups will have operatives running around trying to steer things--and trying to root out the opposition if they know they are there. I guess my point is to use the events to highlight the byzantine nature of the government agencies involved, while adding a hefty dose of intrigue and suspicion for the players to chew on while they are trying to get their cell leader to get somebody to pull rank on their behalf. ;-) Shane Ivey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:16:27 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: Media Suppression Just wondering. Is there a specific mechanism by which the Government can censor the news media (print, radio, TV or all three) in the US? I know that the constitution protects free speech and so on, but I guess there would have to be a mechanism to gag the press regarding matters of national security. In the UK, there is a mechanism called the D-Notice which used to be used to stop the press reporting on matters which affected state secrets and national security (although I'm not sure if HMG still issues D-Notices). Anyone got any more up to date info on this? Anyway, comments please. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 15:30:04 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: Re: DG: DG site directory - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>Note that with proper access to the source & protocol, it would not be too hard to encrypt the pipe, much like ssh works. You could also very easily hook it into a PGP wrapper, and gain up to 1024-bit security.<<< I think that PGP 5.5 goes upto 4096 bits, if I understand it right. 5.5 also uses DH/DSS encryption as opposed to RSA. What that means, I don't know, but it's supposedly better. Regards, >>> R. Menzi - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNX2NNqhFxkX3nANTEQKNSwCfScssNXG2oYTyDqRlkggDnbEPeHgAoLck MiurSGfdbC9q/+g6BPeHVxYF =yf6M - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 17:31:48 -0700 From: Duran Goodyear Subject: Re: DG: Media Suppression At 07:16 PM 6/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >Just wondering. Is there a specific mechanism by which the Government can >censor the news media (print, radio, TV or all three) in the US? > >I know that the constitution protects free speech and so on, but I guess >there would have to be a mechanism to gag the press regarding matters of >national security. It's called "This is a soldier with an M-16... You are about to broad cast something that would damage National Security... Think again bucko..." Ok, so thats pretty rough. I'm no expert on the matter, but as I understand it... If the US govt. feels that it's an issue of national security... then first... They make sure it never reaches the media... "Gee, I guess Suzy news person died in a car crash on the way to work this morning..." Again, brutal... but I for one would not rule it out if it is THAT important. and second... Quiet it up... Deny. Cover up. and put very imposing men in your door way, telling you to stop talking about it. It is the right of the media to broad cast what they want, when they want. But if the Mil/Gov can do so with out exposing them selves, I would expect them to do what is nessisary to cover it up... One thing they have to be concerned with is Would killing someone make more of a mess then if the story got out... Which is more important. ____________________________ Duran Goodyear dug96@hampshire.edu IM: Dyson RS ICQ: 397119 http://hamp.hampshire.edu/~dug96 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:29:15 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: Christianity and Nyarlathotep (Ranting) - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Escutcheon@aol.com 宛先 : deltagreen@nocturne.org 日時 : 1998年6月9日 15:22 件名 : Re: DG: Christianity and Nyarlathotep (Ranting) In a message dated 9 June 1998 J. Frederick MacKenzie responded reasonably and politely to David Farnell's offensive bullshit by writing: >While I like to rattle my players as much as the next guy, I can't tell you >how much this thread bugs me. I'm sincerely sorry I offended you, J. Frederick. And I don't think your response was overly touchy--I was certainly stomping down hard on some toes there. But it was certainly meant only in the context of the game; I'm not out to convert anyone out of Christianity. However, see below... > >I generally maintain an "athiestic" CoC game, because that's more true to >Lovecraft's vision. As a keeper with a Christian perspective, I try to show >the horror of a world without meaning, without God. As such, plotlines >involving Christianity as a tool of Nyarlathotep are just another insidious >horror. > >Despite this, careless speculation about the views of Jesus or the early >Christians could easily be disrespectful toward the most cherished beliefs of >some people. True. The "however" is this: what I said was not merely careless speculation, but what I've come to believe (minus all the Lovecraftian stuff, of course) after many years of study. I'm not going to go into it further than that because by now everyone's getting ready to tell me to drink a big glass of you-know-what, rightly so. >Perhaps I should have spoken up when the Scientologists (or >those weird Italian cultists) were getting hammered. Why? There's nothing wrong with people believing what they believe, as long as they don't try to ram it down others' throats or violate people's rights, use it as an excuse for war, things like that. Thus, while the basic beliefs of Scientology are as perfectly deserving of respect as those of any other religion, I have no problem with "hammering" their terrorist tactics, their mind control, their extortion, etc., just as I have no problem with protesting the mutilation of women's genitals while still having respect for Islamic beliefs. As far as the Italian cultists go, I don't remember anyone hammering them. I just remember having a strong feeling of "truth is MUCH stranger than fiction." > >Please carry on, gentlemen. I'm just asking that you avoid a "flip" tone when >you discuss controversial subjects. Sorry again. Sometimes I forget others' feelings. Actually, I spiced the post with several "flip" comments in an attempt to prevent its being taken too seriously, but of course that just made it more offensive. Yours in all sincerity, David Farnell ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #37 *******************************