From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #53 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, June 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 053 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:19:21 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Glastonbury Festival UK Only / Glaser Safety Slugs >Graeme Price wrote: >(Cuts) >> Something similar may actually have been done in the past (in the >>assassination of Reinhardt Heydrich by >> Czech partisans in WWII... I mentioned this in an earlier post, I think). >(Cut) > >In the case of Heydrich it was inadvertent. The first assassin ambushed >his car but had a jammed sten-gun. As Heydrich and his driver pulled >pistols to deal with the situation assassin #2 lobbed a grenade into the >car. Heydrich was able to start out on foot after the attackers but was >sufficiently wounded to stop. Initially doctors thought he would recover >completely, but horsehair stuffing from the car-seat had been driven >into the wound, and infection killed him. And a damn good thing too. Yes, this is the most likely answer, but I have read a very interesting book about Biological weapons which quotes Paul Fildes (the head of Porton Down in WWII) as saying that he "had a hand" in Heydrich's death. Not that we will ever know either way. Cheers Graeme ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:20:26 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Glastonbury Festival UK Only / Glaser Safety Slugs > Graeme Price wrote: > (Cuts) > > Something similar may actually have been done in the past (in the assassination of Reinhardt Heydrich by > > Czech partisans in WWII... I mentioned this in an earlier post, I think). > (Cut) > > In the case of Heydrich it was inadvertent. The first assassin ambushed > his car but had a jammed sten-gun. As Heydrich and his driver pulled > pistols to deal with the situation assassin #2 lobbed a grenade into the > car. Heydrich was able to start out on foot after the attackers but was > sufficiently wounded to stop. Initially doctors thought he would recover > completely, but horsehair stuffing from the car-seat had been driven > into the wound, and infection killed him. And a damn good thing too. > -- > Rob Shankly > ludo@bigpond.com.au > Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you frantic. > I'm assuming that he was exposed to anthrax or something similar from the horsehair. K E E P E R S E Y E S O N L Y THIS MEANS YOU! If for the sake of argument certain people in Brazil were to gain access to the remains of the aformentioned SS officer and revive it, would the anthrax spores which are notoriously long survivers be present and how would this affect the raised individual. Infectious to others? Before anyone chargges in with the argument that there are 2 seperate organisms here ie the spores and Heydrich as he died some time after the initial attack they would have been in his bloodstream and most parts of his body I assume they would be beyond removal. Anyone know more about the effects of Anthrax on people, you hear alot about how its not nice but what are the symptoms / results of infection. Some unlucky PCs are in for a shock ;-) Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:48:15 +0100 From: Nick Subject: Re: DG: RE: Silly Rulesmongering I once read an interesting story about an assasination; what the bad man did was break into the victims house, and turn on all the gas. He then switched on a light(maybe he did that first) and then sat outside with an air rifle and a pellet made out of ice (presumably he had an ice box with him). When the victim came home, he shot the light bulb with the pellet and the bloke got blown to bits. Now all this seems very clever, but is it really realistic to have a bullet made out of ice? surely if it melted even a little in your hands whilst you loaded it, it wouldn't fire properly? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:26:00 +0000 From: "Taz" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Silly Rulesmongering > I once read an interesting story about an assasination; > > what the bad man did was break into the victims house, and turn on > all the gas. He then switched on a light(maybe he did that first) and > then sat outside with an air rifle and a pellet made out of ice > (presumably he had an ice box with him). When the victim came home, > he shot the light bulb with the pellet and the bloke got blown to > bits. Now all this seems very clever, but is it really realistic to > have a bullet made out of ice? surely if it melted even a little in > your hands whilst you loaded it, it wouldn't fire properly? It has been proposed that an CO2 gun could shoot these 'bullets'. A lot of fiction (particularly Mission Impossible) writers use this sort of thing to drug someone without leaving a trace. Seems to me you'd need some sort of refrigerated magazine to keep them in... Icecream anyone? Be Seeing You Taz RPGA Europe IT Co-ordinator and Event Support Co-ordinator (taz2@ukonline.co.uk) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:53:48 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: Undead Nazis and Anthrax Following an interesting conversation about Nazi assassinations & biological warfare, Rob Thomas wrote: >I'm assuming that he was exposed to anthrax or something similar from >the horsehair. Official cause of death for Mr. Heydrich was "septicaemia caused by bacteria and possibly by poisons carried into [vital organs] by the bomb splinters". >If for the sake of argument certain people in Brazil were to gain >access to the remains of the aformentioned SS officer and revive it, >would the anthrax spores which are notoriously long survivers be >present and how would this affect the raised individual. Infectious >to others? Before anyone chargges in with the argument that there >are 2 seperate organisms here ie the spores and Heydrich as he died >some time after the initial attack they would have been in his >bloodstream and most parts of his body I assume they would be beyond >removal. The old Star Trek transporter filter right? It is an interesting possibility about raising the dead. You never know just what they died of. Go ahead, make him infectious. Makes for a good scenario. Anyone know more about the effects of Anthrax on people, >you hear alot about how its not nice but what are the symptoms / >results of infection. Some unlucky PCs are in for a shock ;-) Yes, thank you. Anthrax is bacterial cause by Bacillus anthracis (gram +ve, spore former). Anthrax is aminly a disease of livestock (cattle, horses and sheep) humans are infected only rarely: usually via entry of spores through broken skin: inhalation into the lung is also possible, but less common (in humans this is called Woolsorter's disease). Spores germinate at the site of entry and growth of the bacteria causes a gelatinous oedema (think snotty pus) at the site of infection. The bacteria spread to the bloodstream via the lymph system and multiply in the blood and tissues. The patient then dies. There are several sort so toxin secreted by the bacilli (including oedema factor, toxic factor and protective factor: these are encoded by a plasmid [bit of extrachromosomal DNA] which can be lost or gained by the bacteria). Typically in cutaneous anthrax there is a sore: starting as a papule which develops within 12-36 hours, later progressing to become a malignant pustule, then a necrotic pustule (huge black blisters) from which the bugs escape into the bloodstream. In inhalation anthrax, there will be lymph node swelling, sepsis, meningitis and haemorrhagic pulmonary oedema (bloody fluid on the lungs). This leads into haemorrhagic pneumonia with shock (which my med. micro textbook describes quaintly as "a terminal event"). Cutaneous anthrax is about 20% fatal if untreated: pulmonary anthrax (which admittedly needs a much higher dose of spores to develop) is almost 100% fatal within 48 hours or so. Not nice. Not nice at all. Treatment is via antibiotics (mostly penicillin to which most [but not all] strains are sensitive). Treatment of pulmonary anthrax is much less effective and mortality remains high. In either case, treatment must be started as soon as possible (once the bugs are in the bloodstream, it's goodnight Vienna). Vaccination is possible, but duration of protection is limited (not sure about the new vaccines - which may be much more effective). The main reservoir of infection is contaminated soil (via spores from the carcasses of infected livestock). Person to person spread is not described in any of my textbooks (I checked) but this doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. Anthrax is probably the viable organism for use as a biological weapon: the spores hang around almost indefinately until they find the correct conditions to germinate. Anthrax has probably been used as a weapon (Rhodesia 1978-80 anthrax outbreak), and has excaped from a biological weapons research facility (Military camp 19: Sverdlovsk [now Ekatarinsburg] 900 miles east of Moscow, USSR 1979: Number of cases unknown - possibly in the hundreds: apparently only a fraction of a gram of spores got out: Yeltsin admitted all this in 1992). Like I said. Not nice. Not nice at all. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:58:34 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: RE: Silly Rulesmongering Nick worte: [snip] >Now all this seems very clever, but is it really realistic to >have a bullet made out of ice? surely if it melted even a little in >your hands whilst you loaded it, it wouldn't fire properly? Reminds me of an old "Tales of the Unexpected" where a woman beats her husband to death with a frozen leg of lamb and then puts it in the oven. She then feeds it to the detectives who come over to investigate as "it seems such a waste to throw it away". Upshot is that the detectives leave uttering the words "Well, I guess we had better keep looking for the murder weapon". Sick, but slightly amusing... Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 19:07:51 +0100 From: Toby Rushton Subject: Re: DG: Police investigative forms Could you send me a copy of the police report, please? Thanks Toby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:17:13 EDT From: Dhl9@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Glaser In a message dated 98-06-25 04:50:11 EDT, djuneau@io.com writes: << Now, until fairly recently, the backup guns tended to be .380 or below, with the occasional oddball like the COP 4-shot .357; now, however, you can pick up all sorts of 9mm, .45, and .40 autos in incredibly small packages. (I personally like the ParaOrdinance .45s - P.12.45, or mebbe the P.10.45; I understand there are .40 conversion kits for 'em as well. The large muzzle is sure to give all but the SAN-challenged second thoughts, especially on something roughly the size of two MYTHOS decks. ) >> Ever hear of the Semmerling LM-4? It is a .45 ACP, 4 or 6 shot and fits in the palm of your hand. I like any .45 but statistics show that anything under a 5 inch barrel and hollow points have a hard time opening up thus reducing their effectiveness. I heard the C.O.P. .357 was no better than the average derringer accuracy wise. Someone asked about the Glaser in a .44. The .44 is a notoriously poor manstopper because of overpenetration. I wonder if the Glaser is any different. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:54:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel M Harms Subject: Re: DG: RE: Silly Rulesmongering On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Rob Shankly wrote: > On a quieter note, an airgun dart could be coated with tetrodatoxin > (from poisonous octopi or an anaesthesiologist) which stops the victim's > lungs from working puff puff puff. I believe you mean tetrodoxin here. It's a paralytic poison found in pufferfish of different varieties. In Japan, people eat fugu, a dish made from pufferfish, because they enjoy the numbing of the skin that goes along with it, and every year people die because a chef, despite his training, makes a bad batch. What makes tetrodoxin even more interesting for CoC investigators is the fact that it doesn't always kill the victim. In many cases, it induces a coma that is virtually indistinguishable from death. In Haiti, the substance is used in Voudou rites of zombi creation. According to Wade Davis, author of _The Serpent and the Rainbow_, the priest throws the powder across the victim's path in a small enough dose to make its effects temporary. After the person "dies", the doctor digs him up and uses other drugs to put him to work. There's been some dispute as to whether this would administer the drug effectively, however. Some of the above may be inaccurate, as I'm going from memory here, but tetrodoxin can be a fun tool for Keepers. Yrs., Daniel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:38:53 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: Tetrodotoxin etc. >On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Rob Shankly wrote: > >> On a quieter note, an airgun dart could be coated with tetrodatoxin >> (from poisonous octopi or an anaesthesiologist) which stops the victim's >> lungs from working puff puff puff. > > I believe you mean tetrodoxin here. Actually Tetrodotoxin (he said, picking nits...) >It's a paralytic poison found >in pufferfish of different varieties. In Japan, people eat fugu, a dish >made from pufferfish, because they enjoy the numbing of the skin that goes >along with it, and every year people die because a chef, despite his >training, makes a bad batch. As I recall, the chef needs to be licensed to prepare such a dish. The toxin is found in the liver, skin and ovaries of the puffer fish (family Tetraodontoidea) and in the California newt (Taricha torosa). Clinical signs of poisoning from tetrodotoxin include tingling of the lips and tongue, motor incoordination, numbness of the skin, salivation, muscle weakness, generalised paralysis and death. And people eat this stuff willingly! I always knew the Japanese were an odd bunch! > What makes tetrodoxin even more interesting for CoC investigators >is the fact that it doesn't always kill the victim. In many cases, it >induces a coma that is virtually indistinguishable from death. In Haiti, >the substance is used in Voudou rites of zombi creation. According to >Wade Davis, author of _The Serpent and the Rainbow_, the priest throws the >powder across the victim's path in a small enough dose to make its effects >temporary. After the person "dies", the doctor digs him up and uses other >drugs to put him to work. There's been some dispute as to whether this >would administer the drug effectively, however. Yes, I've wondered about this too. The zombie thing is a little bit tenous (personal opinion) but good for a plot device... or as a scientific rationale when filling in the report forms. Cheers Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:51:05 -0400 From: "John C. Detwiler" Subject: DG: police forms For those of you who want that form I "advertised" earlier you can get it from my pathetic website at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/6034/chaos.htm It's available in Word 97 format or lo-cal RTF. John the Bastard jdetwiler@compuserve.com "What if something _were breeding/were brooding_ beneath our feet?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:49:46 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: Silly Rulesmongering On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Daniel M Harms writes: > > >On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Rob Shankly wrote: > > > I believe you mean tetrodoxin here. It's a paralytic poison >found >in pufferfish of different varieties. In Japan, people eat fugu, a >dish >made from pufferfish, because they enjoy the numbing of the skin that >goes >along with it, *snip* Actually, if I remember correctly, there is a pronounced euphoric effect from the VERY small dosage found in properly prepared Fugu. > What makes tetrodoxin even more interesting for CoC >investigators >is the fact that it doesn't always kill the victim. In many cases, it >induces a coma that is virtually indistinguishable from death. In >Haiti, >the substance is used in Voudou rites of zombi creation. According to >Wade Davis, author of _The Serpent and the Rainbow_, the priest throws >the >powder across the victim's path in a small enough dose to make its >effects >temporary. After the person "dies", the doctor digs him up and uses >other >drugs to put him to work. There's been some dispute as to whether >this >would administer the drug effectively, however. > > Some of the above may be inaccurate, as I'm going from memory >here, but tetrodoxin can be a fun tool for Keepers. I believe that the reason that the Zombie dust was effective when administered in this fashion was because one of the other ingredients was ground nettles or a similar irritant and abrasive. This allowed the toxin to reach the bloodstream through nearly microscopic cuts in the skin when the barefoot victim walked over the powder. Alternatively, the powder would be blown into the victim's face, entering the mucous membranes of the eyes and sinuses. The poor victim would experience total paralysis of the voluntary muscles along with sufficiently depressed heartbeat and respiration to ensure that he would be pronounced dead without electronic monitoring devices. The victim would be totally aware of the entire process, including his own burial! When the drug wore off the Tonton Macoutes would dig him up and feed him a variety of Datura Stramonium(sp?), a potent Hallucinogenic, show him a sealed jar into which they would tell him they had placed his soul, and put him to work as a slave! The Haitian secret police make Nyarlathotep seem like a nice guy by comparison. Hope this helps keepers running a campaign in Haiti. Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:00:17 EDT From: Imandos@aol.com Subject: DG: Bio-agents Robert Thomas wrote: >Anyone know more about the effects of Anthrax on people, >you hear alot about how its not nice but what are the symptoms / >results of infection. Some unlucky PCs are in for a shock ;-) My brother can answer this. I'll get him to send a post to the list with the effects. While we're at it, is there any other Chemical or Biological agent anyone on the list wants to know about? If so, my brother is a specialist in this field. Send in any questions you have between now and Saturday night and I'll collect them over the weekend and have him send a post or posts on Monday in response. Thomas Woodall Imandos@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:48:53 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: DG: Re: Bio-agents > >Anyone know more about the effects of Anthrax on people, > >you hear alot about how its not nice but what are the symptoms / > >results of infection. Some unlucky PCs are in for a shock ;-) > >other than the fact that it really ruins you're day...I can't say much on the subject...but it's not as nasty as some of the hemmoragic stuff like ebola. Well, I guess that's a relative opionion...*none* of those diseases are very pleasant, I would think...However, having all you're internal organs liquify over a period of a few days dosen't sound like a fun way to pass the time....I rather just have a beer.... am I rambling again? hmmm...I suppose what they say about sleep deprevation is true then Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:05:52 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: DG: Paperwork samples John C. Detwiler wrote: > > Who wanted the police paperwork? I've got a generic based on a text book > form in Word 97 format available. I'd love to get a copy, too. Can you e-mail the file to croakerjr@aol.com? Hopefully my WP program will be able to decipher it. Shane Ivey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Organlegging in the Rocky Mountains On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Nick wrote: > The mib wrote;- > >>>After having lost Amnesia Grrl the Extract to MJ agents, and picking up > sigint from the bug I injected into her, I did some looking into similar > cases. > > Don't know if it's entirely related, but before the recent UK > warning, my contacts were telling me about amnesiacs turning up all > around the green and Pleasant land - all suffering from extensive and > extremely painful brain deformities. Something like your Amnesia Grrl, > these deformities were leading to the significant over-production of > various chemical elements. noone seemed to know why or how. That's a totally different bug :) The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:17:05 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Cell Z and the like. On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Bruce Baugh wrote: > Am I the only one who reads all this discussion of Cell Z and keeps thinking > of the Mover cell of that name in OVER THE EDGE (which would cross over > quite well with DELTA GREEN)? Why do you think Agent Zorro does all the killing that I don't have time for? The Man in Black is : the new host of the Hawaiian Moving Company Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Death to Kergillia!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:19:32 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: San Francisco Ocean Doings On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Bryant Durrell wrote: > My cell's guessing that someone is trying to cover up Deep One breeding. > But that's a bit subtle for the Deep Ones themselves. So we're worried. Burn down buildings in Chinatown and sift the ashes for evidence. Tcho-Tcho's might be used as muscle for the tongs. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:25:03 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Police investigative forms On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, John C. Detwiler wrote: > Who wanted the police paperwork? I've got a generic based on a text book > form in Word 97 format available. May be able to convert to other formats > but not sure what that would do to it. Let me know your address & I'll > send it to you. Oh yeah! Right. Like we're all gonna line up to do that. Nice try Narc-boy. > John the Bastard You damn right. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:28:21 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Silly Rulesmongering On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Taz wrote: > As a true story, a friend of mine had a license to test his > ammunition for 'the humane destruction of livestock'. He tried > shooting a goat in the head from 10 yards with a 'stock' .38 FMJ > round. The bullet bounced and the goat just shook it's head! He > then tried again with a glaser round. Voila! Headless goat. Headless Goat of the Woods with a Thousand brain fragments? :) The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:50:05 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Infection! (Mi-Go Biology 101) On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Jay Dugger wrote: > Wednesday, 24 June 1998: > > Our favorite microbiologist's infection lecutre stirred my imagination. > Suppose MiB's Mi-Go sidekick (Buzz), distraught by Adolf's awful fate at > the hands (no jokes, please) of Mr. Squick, burns itself upon a funeral > pyre. Ms. Sheep, a local firefighter, happens upon the blaze and > extinguishes same, but she gets a lungful or two of smoke in so doing. > > Let's assume Ms. Sheep has Mi-Go bits and spores in her lungs, eyes, nose, > and throat. These spores take root and spread. Hmmm... I will go out and inject some poor soul with BUZZite and report back to you. I'm thinking metamorphosis into a new Mi-Go here, but the possibility for mutation or hybridization does exist. Maybe the mutant will become addicted to Mi-Go tissue? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "There's a fungus among us." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:56:32 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: Silly Rulesmongering On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:28:21 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black writes: >On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Taz wrote: > >> As a true story, a friend of mine had a license to test his >> ammunition for 'the humane destruction of livestock'. He tried >> shooting a goat in the head from 10 yards with a 'stock' .38 FMJ >> round. The bullet bounced and the goat just shook it's head! No surprise there at all. When I was on the horse racing circut some years ago a horse broke its leg during a race. A policeman who had seen too many movies swaggered up and tried to put it down with his 9mm. several shots glanced off of the skull of the poor beast who was by now screaming and blowing foam...its eyes wild. Finally someone showed up with a 44mag. and dispatched the poor beast. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:36:51 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: Glaser Don wrote: > >I will note that a helluva lot of people *are* killed with the good ol' >.22 Long Rifle round each year... Excellent point. Part of the reason that all this talk about wound cavities and ballistics and powder charges and such are pretty much hot air. As someone noted earlier, it mainly sells gun magazines. Damage occurs in unpredictable ways. We have a very simple damage system in CoC, and personally, I think it's OK because I like combat fast and dirty. I sometimes use hit location rules, but not much. It's good to get some info on these things to add some realism to the game--DG agents generally make guns a pretty intimate part of their lives. And if we can relate it to the game, fine. But let's not let arguments about various kinds of bullets take over the whole list, OK? It's starting to sound like a medieval theological argument in here. (And yes, I know I've added to it--hell, I got it all off to a start with that Black Talon question. Mea culpa!) Remember, there's plenty of info on the web, too. Be careful out there, David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:54:16 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Tetrodotoxin etc. - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Graeme Price 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年6月26日 4:46 件名 : DG: Tetrodotoxin etc. >>It's a paralytic poison found >>in pufferfish of different varieties. In Japan, people eat fugu, a dish >>made from pufferfish, because they enjoy the numbing of the skin that goes >>along with it, and every year people die because a chef, despite his >>training, makes a bad batch. > >As I recall, the chef needs to be licensed to prepare such a dish. The >toxin is found in the liver, skin and ovaries of the puffer fish (family >Tetraodontoidea) and in the California newt (Taricha torosa). Clinical >signs of poisoning from tetrodotoxin include tingling of the lips and >tongue, motor incoordination, numbness of the skin, salivation, muscle >weakness, generalised paralysis and death. And people eat this stuff >willingly! I always knew the Japanese were an odd bunch! Hey, it tastes good! (and no, it tastes nothing like chicken) Actually, I've eaten it a few times (rich students who take me out to eat now and then), and I've never noticed any numbness, tingling, etc. I think that if you DO notice that, it's "Sayonara, sucker." The number of deaths is quite small, certainly less than the number of deaths from Burger-meister Hamburgers (infected with some nasty bacillus) every year. I don't really think people eat it for that enjoyable (?) numb feeling--I mean, it's pretty easy to get numb in Japan (beer cans the size of newborn babies in vending machines on every corner). People eat it becasue it tastes good, and in Japan, people will eat about anything edible that grows in and around the islands. (It's real fun to go to aquariums with Japanese people--they look at the fish and say "Oishii so!" (Looks tasty!)--I kid you not.) David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:22:22 PDT From: "Aaron Litz" Subject: DG: DG Weapons I'm sure all this talk about Glasers and Black Talons is interesting and everything, but I betcha a couple bucks that Cthulhu will eat you either way. By the way, one of my more interesting players characters carries, in addition to his Glocks and Skorpian, an enchanted tai chi sword ( and is an expert in tai chi to boot. ) But his Sanity is somewhere around 25 . PS- anyone ever thought about enchanted guns? ( a bless firearm spell as a result of advanced weapons research, courtesy of Mi-Go tech given to MJ-12) Milk and Cookies Aaron Litz " Good. Bad. I'm the one with the Gun." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:26:21 EDT From: Escutcheon@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Toxic Ammo Hi Guys! I after reading more posts, I thought I'd mention one or two more nasty ideas: >After the posts on the subject of Glaser Safety Slugs, I started to >wonder about whether it was possible to fill the slug with other >substances apart from teflon or a teflon / xxxx mix. Perhaps a fast >acting poison or even nastier a virulant strain of CJD, so that if >someone survives the initial bullet trauma, they die slowly over a >few months / years. Just a quick warped thought. A practical approach is hollowpoints filled with nicotine - The materials to make such are not too hard to come by. >I guess you could mix it with anything you like: examples would be > >Ricin (ala. Bulgarian Secret Service vs. Georgi Markov) >Cyanide (but why be boring!) >Botulinus Toxin (ouch!) By the way, intel. where I work indicates that some drug dealers are using Ricin in phony drug packages in the hope of killing police officers. The stuff is not only toxic to the touch, when placed in a drug test kit, it gives off toxic fumes. >Personally I would go for anthrax as Clostridia cannot grow in >areas well supplied with blood or oxygen. Something similar may actually >have been done in the past (in the assassination of Reinhardt Heydrich by >Czech partisans in WWII... I mentioned this in an earlier post, I think). I'd recommend the Clostridia as much easier to find in a virulent form. The stuff would have to be mixed with a toxin that inteferes with the local circulation, such as brown recluse spider venom. In regard to High Explosive Slugs, the ones that I've used (gun dealer in the family) were basically similar to hollowpoints filled with C4. Yr. Obd't Servant, J. Frederick MacKenzie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:30:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: DG Weapons On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Aaron Litz wrote: > I'm sure all this talk about Glasers and Black Talons is interesting > and everything, but I betcha a couple bucks that Cthulhu will eat you > either way. By the way, one of my more interesting players characters > carries, in addition to his Glocks and Skorpian, an enchanted tai chi > sword ( and is an expert in tai chi to boot. ) > But his Sanity is somewhere around 25 . All those nice regenerating/armoured/unaffected-by-terrestrial-matter beasties *do* make guns a bit of a moot point. Cultists, tho, are usually easier targets, and if you can nail 'em fast enough, they can't Call the beasties... Evil Keeper Toolkit #1: Cultists *always* set their watches fast. ("Hahah! We got here in the nick of time! *BLAM*BLAM*BLAM*" "Uhm, weren't there supposed to be five cultists here? Dave? ohshit...") > PS- anyone ever thought about enchanted guns? ( a bless firearm spell as > a result of advanced weapons research, courtesy of Mi-Go tech given to > MJ-12) I might give (with much difficulty) and enchanted *bullet*; a blessed weapon is of less use, until you're down to melee with the bloody thing... IIRC, "disallowing" Theron Marks' "enchanted shot" came up in an early TUO lettercol. (#5, p. 4, letter from Harvey Chen. ) I'd probably allow it, given enough roleplaying reason to, but it'd be unique (or damn few - single digit at *most*, probably 3 or so if I was generous), expensive (in money *and* POW, favours, and so on), and most certainly to be saved until the last fringe of desperation. ("Look, a Deep One! *BLAM*" "Fred, you *dick*.." ) I've a nasty enough idea in mind, but I need to puzzle out an end-game for it...lots of opportunities to play Chow Yun Fat, but it could become hideous at the climax. Depends if I really want to bring in a Supporting Guest Deity or not... Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:45:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Glaser On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 Dhl9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-06-25 04:50:11 EDT, djuneau@io.com writes: > > << Now, until fairly recently, the backup guns tended to be .380 or below, > with the occasional oddball like the COP 4-shot .357; now, however, you > can pick up all sorts of 9mm, .45, and .40 autos in incredibly small > packages. (I personally like the ParaOrdinance .45s - P.12.45, or mebbe > the P.10.45; I understand there are .40 conversion kits for 'em as well. > The large muzzle is sure to give all but the SAN-challenged second > thoughts, especially on something roughly the size of two MYTHOS decks. > ) >> > > Ever hear of the Semmerling LM-4? It is a .45 ACP, 4 or 6 shot and fits > in the palm of your hand. I like any .45 but statistics show that > anything under a 5 inch barrel and hollow points have a hard time > opening up thus reducing their effectiveness. I'd heard of it, but I don't recall seeing one other than in G&A once. As for the short-barrels, I can live with a slightly lowered effectiveness; I'd rather add a zero-length compensator to control the the beastie enough to allow followup shots. With even the P.12.45/P.10.45, the barrel is short enough to cut into your muzzle-energy anyways... ("The Miskatonic University Gun-Fondling Club will be meeting.." ) > I heard the C.O.P. .357 was no better than the average derringer accuracy > wise. Accuracy schmaccuracy, I sez. 4 rounds of hot-load .357 in *that* tidy a package will make up for it, and in any event it's for point'n'shoot ranges, much like most other true backups. (If the muzzle touches the target, to-hit rolls are redundant.) > Someone asked about the Glaser in a .44. The .44 is a notoriously poor > manstopper because of overpenetration. I wonder if the Glaser is any > different. Supposed to be better; of course, a lot of my "data" originated in RED DRAGON, by Thomas Harris. Of course, the .44 Mag has it's uses - just ask that DG bunnies & guppies cop from Fish & Wildlife. ("Hey, that .44 won't stop a Hound of Tindalos." "It's not the Hounds I'm worried about... look behind you." "Hi, I'm Mr. Bear, call me Kodiak. I unnerstand you got a problem with my cousin Winnie?") Not that *I* would want to play pistolero versus a furry mountain; much like Cthulhu, 'tis best to be where they *aren't*. Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:02:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: RE: Silly Rulesmongering On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Nick wrote: > I once read an interesting story about an assasination; > > what the bad man did was break into the victims house, and turn on > all the gas. He then switched on a light(maybe he did that first) and > then sat outside with an air rifle and a pellet made out of ice > (presumably he had an ice box with him). When the victim came home, > he shot the light bulb with the pellet and the bloke got blown to > bits. Now all this seems very clever, but is it really realistic to > have a bullet made out of ice? surely if it melted even a little in > your hands whilst you loaded it, it wouldn't fire properly? You borrow the local meat-locker to reload in; keep all the instruments (use a forceps to handle the projectile) at "room" temperature, and then use a Thermos to hold your ammo at the cold temp. You could even do it with dry ice, altho you'd get sublimation. An air-gun, all you'd need is to load it on-site... I'd say it *might* work. Gas is dangerous, but it takes more than a simple load to go *BOOM*. You need to get the right fuel-air misture for best effectiveness, but it could be calculated. Make sure the refrigerator clicking on/off doesn't ignite it early, tho. I'd also make sure I had a shot directly in to the bulb-in-question, once the door opens. The target will smell the gas immediately upon entering, and trying to punch glass to get to your bulb adds another level of uncertainty (and forensic evidence) to the equation. Actually, given the choice, I'd "let" his pilot go out, or the stove be left on "accidentally", while the target slept. It's not as flashy, but suffocation lets you sneak in as the paramedic team and toss the place... and even if he wakes up, he'll be in terrible condition, possibly brain-damaged. (Once upon a time my family combined carbon-monoxide poisoning [from a charcoal burner] with the flu; either one by itself would have been bad enough, but the mix was bloody horrible.) Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:25:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Cell Z and the like. On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Phil Ward wrote: > Don Juneau wrote: > > > Think of the poor DG agents, no guns at all, dealing with Al Amarja.. > > I think I'm going to introduce bootleg Karla Sommers CDs when I > > get a game going. > > > > "All right, who fed the Relevations of Glaaki into the Cut-Ups Machine? > > Senor Sock?" > > OK, The people here in my office need to know all the Senor > Sock jokes (one of them is using Senor Sock's intro as a .sig), > and we have _no_ idea what a cut-ups machine is. > > can you help. For Senor Sock, I'll bow towards the more demented members of the list. The Cut-Ups machine is a product of the Cut-Ups conspiracy... NON-DG SPOILER HERE BE DRAGONS OKAY, NO DRAGONS - JUST WEIRDNESS All right, the Cut-Ups are a worldwide conspiracy of surrealists fighting the oppressive hand of Control Addicts. In this context, we speak of their operations on the small (fictional) Mediterranean island of Al Amarja, of which more can be found in Atlas Games' most excellent OVER THE EDGE. (Some reference may also be found in their collectable card-game ON THE EDGE, but hey, buy both. Just a plug from an innocent <*koff*koff*> bystander, to keep Tynes and Baugh from doing so as well. ) In any event, the Cut-Ups Machine is the product of an eccentric (to say the least) genius, and alters reality by way of "cut ups" - words clipped from newspapers, books, magazines, other media - which are fed in in greta gobs, mixed together, then pumped out in such a manner as to be surreal. Feeding in the Relevations of Glaaki would probably bring forth Ol' Spiky, and make Y'golonac into something akin to Barney, but with more merchandising... not that it'd be a *bad* idea. The "Cut-Ups method" I suggested is using said cut-ups as plot-devices, randomised generators and all kinds of good stuff in an RPG; it's somewhat complicated-sounding, so I'll refer you to the excellent Cut-Ups sourcebook, WEATHER THE CUCKOO LIKES, also from Atlas Games. Seriously, tho, OTE has *much* good stealable material. If I can ever find a decent GM for it, I'll happily zorch my mind into "PC knowledge" and "player knowledge", and stumble face-first into everything the Edge has to offer...(hmm. Bruce is in Seattle now, I understand - six-hour roadtrip for gaming, once Das Van is highway-happy? ) Don ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #53 *******************************