From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #60 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 01 : Number 060 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:16:46 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: Silly Rocket Ammo Thanks for the info! I always wondered what happened to Gyrojet. Phil. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:41:34 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: Random Sexual Perversions All Right, all right! I surrender! You're much sicker than I am! I admit it! Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:24:20 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: Hillbillies With Guns On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:00:12 -0400 murphy writes: . In >>the more remote areas of the state anything could happen. I'll send >>information on West Virginia's mythos/paranormal history if anyone is >>interested. Examples are the famous Mothman and the Braxton County >Green >>Monster. The second one was a top ten {of the year} nationwide story >in the >>late 50's. MOTHMAN???? I just HAVE to hear this one! Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:10:24 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: Yanks With Guns On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:53:44 EDT Escutcheon@aol.com writes: >Actually, this seems to be exactly backwards from what I would have >said. In >most urban areas in the U.S., just carrying around a long arm openly >can get >you arrested. On the other hand, in many rural areas people have no >objection >to folks who go out "plinking" or hunting "varmints". Then there are places like Idaho where it was perfectly legal the last time I was there to carry sidearms in public...even in bars! Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:27:22 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:30:36 GMT0BST Robert Thomas writes: > >Wasn't this in one of the Bond Movies IIRC? Yes. It was "Thunderball" , I think. The small rocket was manufactured by Gyrojet that was fired from the cigarette. Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:34:18 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: CNN & Operation TAILWIND On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:34:22 -0700 (PDT) Illuminatus Primus writes: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >CNN is now retracting their story of last month regarding >Operation TAILWIND in Laos back in the '60s. They are >apologizing for the report, and saying that they were mistaken in >their story, which said that American defectors were exposed to >nerve gas. > >Hrm. Wonder who got to them?... Probably the same people who convinced the San Jose Mercury to do the same thing with their series on the CIA and Crack cocaine. Phil. > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:51:42 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: DG: Re: Yanks With Guns While freedom of speech is one of the few things that I still hold sacred, this discussion is beginning to show signs of drifting into a debate on the 2nd amendment. I have yet to encounter one of those that didn't degenerate into rampant flaming on both sides with the server becoming as congested as a gamer's arteries! Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 19:31:30 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: DG: D&D&Deliverance (Gun comments snipped by List-Keeper request. On to other responses.) << You have in effect turned a very fine roleplaying game into a modern day D&D. >> Come now... A lot of banter goes on with this list, very little of it intended to be a genuine-seeming representation of the Delta Green milieu. I think MiB's stories and Conversation Memoranda are great fun, but I would not base my Call of Cthulhu campaign on them. The core of Delta Green (to me) is the bottom-line fact that all the guns and training won't save the day; they'll just make the "big bad agents" feel slightly better (before the inevitable madness and/or squishing) by being able to fight back against the most peripheral threats. << What does 'How very deliverance' mean? >> It means... ummm... there were these city guys who went into the fictionalized rural south, and... Aw, just see the movie. I have to say, I've never even heard rumors in the real South about the kinds of nastiness shown in the film "Deliverance." But as a portrayal of decay and evil, it was downright quasi-Lovecraftian. Who knows what else those two hunters would have done with poor old Ned Beatty if Burt Reynolds hadn't shown up. "Did ye ever hear tell of a Shoggoth?" << (By the way, I just read the SWEET story by Shane Ivey about that very thing, archived on his Shadowlands website--check it out.) >> Whoohoo! http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm Shane Ivey Birmingham, AL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:33:06 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Viscissitude On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Gerry Mckelvey wrote: > the Black hand is waging a shadow war against the soul eaters, but suspects > it's a losing battle. Old Clan Tzimisce is leading the fight against thier > former clan brothers and they don't give up a grudge (even if it kills > them.). So, it's possible to have human cultists and vamps/mages/whatever > all going about thier day jobs (or whatever) then meeting in a basement > somewhere to further Viscissitude's goals on earth in their spare > time...the fun thing is, you never can be sure if you got the soul eater. > After all, if someone can ooze down a crack in the floor and change shape > and form to get away from you, even if you got a body, how can you be sure > you got the right one? they can alter others too, you see... I have been planning a Vampire campaign where Tremere (who seems to be infected with Vicissitude) has developed a series of magical rituals based on Diablerie and the Bitter Rose thing. Basically it prevents his soul from being eaten by feeding diablerie soul fragments to the souleater inside him. Thus he gets to keep Vicissitude and his Soul. I'm thinking that he learned the Technique from Tzimicse, as part of some Jyhad/Antidiluvian deal. Maybe Tremere was being mentored by Tzimicse for whatever reason? ObDG: Yeah, if John "Children of the Twighlight" Crowe can do a better job with Vampires than WW I'll be impressed. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:41:01 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Dear M.I.B. On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Jay and Mikiko Noyes started my new advice column: > Dear M.I.B. > > The memvers of DG "V" cadre have an unusual problem. Whenever an > incident of cosmic horror occurs, they all spontaneously sing out the guitar > riff from Metallica's "Thing that should not be" > > What should I do. > > Signed, > Fearful of Dark One Retribution Dear Fearful, The way the secret masters see it, you have two options: 1) Hose them all in embarassingly ridiculous ways straight out of Paranoia RPG until they scream out loud that they just can't take it anymore. (I suggest an Elder Sign Forehead Tattoo for starters) 2) Learn the lyrics and have a sing along, Karaoke style. METALLICA KICKS ASS~! METALLICA ROCKS~! The Man in Black is : blackened in the end Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:47:23 -0700 From: clever1@earthlink.net (Scott Cleverdon) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering >Has anyone out there ever heard of a delightful weapon briefly >manufactured in the '60s called the Gyrojet? It fired .45 solid fuel >rockets!! A finger over the barrel would hold the projectile back since >it built up most of its velocity outside of the barrel.(no recoil and >silent!!) When it had finished accellerating it had twice the power of a >.45ACP. It could also fire under water and had no ballistic grooves since >the spin was produced by internal vanes in the "slug". >Phil Gyrojet guns have been rather popular with a bunch of RPG's over the years. Top Secret, Star Frontiers, James Bond 007, Gamma World, even Traveller. A bunch of agents with seemingly clever experimental weapons could make for an amusing scene and a lesson on the need to rely on wits and not hardware. Still, what could you put in the tips of those little rockets? regards ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:50:02 -0700 From: clever1@earthlink.net (Scott Cleverdon) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering >Has anyone out there ever heard of a delightful weapon briefly >manufactured in the '60s called the Gyrojet? It fired .45 solid fuel >rockets!! A finger over the barrel would hold the projectile back since >it built up most of its velocity outside of the barrel.(no recoil and >silent!!) When it had finished accellerating it had twice the power of a >.45ACP. It could also fire under water and had no ballistic grooves since >the spin was produced by internal vanes in the "slug". >Phil Gyrojet guns have been rather popular with a bunch of RPG's over the years. Top Secret, Star Frontiers, James Bond 007, Gamma World, even Traveller. A bunch of agents with seemingly clever experimental weapons could make for an amusing scene and a lesson on the need to rely on wits and not hardware. Still, what could you put in the tips of those little rockets? regards ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:50:40 -0700 From: clever1@earthlink.net (Scott Cleverdon) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering >>Well, what you've said is true, as far as it goes. What we really should >>mention is that there is a huge difference still between small cities and >>large ones, and an even larger gulf between cities and the "rest" of the >>country. Most of the crime, especially gun violence, occurs in the cities - >>mainly the larger ones. I worked as a dispatcher for a police demartment >>whose coverage area encompassed the suburban county of Washington, DC (a >>city with the highest per-capita murder rate in the world), and in my nine >>years, homicides were a rare event. Admittedly, that is changing as the >>influence of the city encroaches more on the county, nevertheless, >>homicides are not an everyday occurrence. My area, despite all that, has a >>huge number of guns, both handguns, and rifles (we love to hunt down here). > > Thank you for the supporting commentary. > A simple point. I've come to know many cops and other individuals in law enforcement here in Los Angeles, including someone who works in military intelligence and they all cannot imagine leaving home without a weapon. Indeed they find it rather brave of me (a Scotsman) to be able to go about my daily business and not be armed. The chap in Military Intelligence, when he's working carries a supressed H&K sub machine gun under his passenger seat, not to mentions a second backup handgun. There's also interesting things with regard to him as to what the police can do to him because he works for the government. They can cuff him and arrest him but they cannot remove his weapons. He also declares formally to any cops who stop him for whatever reason exactly who he is and what he's carrying. He also wears his MI badge like dogtags. regards Ia Ia Etc. Scott Cleverdon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:50:52 -0700 From: clever1@earthlink.net (Scott Cleverdon) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering >>Well, what you've said is true, as far as it goes. What we really should >>mention is that there is a huge difference still between small cities and >>large ones, and an even larger gulf between cities and the "rest" of the >>country. Most of the crime, especially gun violence, occurs in the cities - >>mainly the larger ones. I worked as a dispatcher for a police demartment >>whose coverage area encompassed the suburban county of Washington, DC (a >>city with the highest per-capita murder rate in the world), and in my nine >>years, homicides were a rare event. Admittedly, that is changing as the >>influence of the city encroaches more on the county, nevertheless, >>homicides are not an everyday occurrence. My area, despite all that, has a >>huge number of guns, both handguns, and rifles (we love to hunt down here). > > Thank you for the supporting commentary. > A simple point. I've come to know many cops and other individuals in law enforcement here in Los Angeles, including someone who works in military intelligence and they all cannot imagine leaving home without a weapon. Indeed they find it rather brave of me (a Scotsman) to be able to go about my daily business and not be armed. The chap in Military Intelligence, when he's working carries a supressed H&K sub machine gun under his passenger seat, not to mentions a second backup handgun. There's also interesting things with regard to him as to what the police can do to him because he works for the government. They can cuff him and arrest him but they cannot remove his weapons. He also declares formally to any cops who stop him for whatever reason exactly who he is and what he's carrying. He also wears his MI badge like dogtags. regards Ia Ia Etc. Scott Cleverdon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 17:51:07 -0700 From: clever1@earthlink.net (Scott Cleverdon) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering >Has anyone out there ever heard of a delightful weapon briefly >manufactured in the '60s called the Gyrojet? It fired .45 solid fuel >rockets!! A finger over the barrel would hold the projectile back since >it built up most of its velocity outside of the barrel.(no recoil and >silent!!) When it had finished accellerating it had twice the power of a >.45ACP. It could also fire under water and had no ballistic grooves since >the spin was produced by internal vanes in the "slug". >Phil Gyrojet guns have been rather popular with a bunch of RPG's over the years. Top Secret, Star Frontiers, James Bond 007, Gamma World, even Traveller. A bunch of agents with seemingly clever experimental weapons could make for an amusing scene and a lesson on the need to rely on wits and not hardware. Still, what could you put in the tips of those little rockets? regards ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:34:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Re: Code Book (keepers only) Various and Sundry Replies On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, rik kershaw wrote: > > From: "David Farnell" > > > You think a bunch of big, bad agents aren't going to make up stupid > > names for the things they fear the most, just to show how tough they > > are? > > No I don't. I would assume that horrors such as these would dread a > race of quiet intelligent men who would have learnt to keep quiet > about what they have seen. There are a number of very old proverbs > such as a "fool chatters while the wise man listens." But I forgot > that Delta Green isn't CoC in the same way that MTG is not an RPG. In > CoC the idea was to use your wits and intelligence to try to stop > cosmic horror. Delta Green is over-reliant on hi-powered weaponry and > technology, and the belief that the bad agent can triumph because he > is one bad-assed mother. You have in effect turned a very fine role > playing game into a modern day D&D. Uhm, I don't know what changes were made in your edition of DG, but it's rather obvious that the high-powered weaponry and technology *isn't* the end-all, be-all of the game; in fact, if anything it's going to *add* to the SAN-losses. ("Oh shit!" BLAM*BLAM*BLAM "Nothing stops it!") The game that's heavily reliant on high-tech weapons and technology, and the bad-ass agent is GURPS Black Ops. (The "Total Badass" advantage was removed before publication - serious unbalancing effect.) And even then, given it's specified "world" and the genre it's doing, it fits. As DG does in *it's* niche... As for turning CoC into a modern day D&D, any blame for *that* lies with the Keeper in question, and the players in that game. DG doesn't make many changes at all to the rules (mainly in the combat portion), adds some stats for nifty new tech-toys and weapons, and the rest of it is *source*. There's not a damn thing there that'll allow someone to, say, walk up on Ithaqua and slap it's face... Now, the humourous stuff (and I do include MiB's "writeups" as such) can go over the top quite easily - but then, look at the subject of the humour! And while a lot of the humour seems a bit "out of place" in CoC, in reality you see similar humour in the fields of law-enforcement, emergency-services, and the military; what they see does affect them, and one of the human mind's defensive mechanisms is humour - and so you get really hideous jokes and truly sick screwing-around... to keep everything from being totally overwhelming. Some people can get by without it, and some just try awful hard to do that - it's not a laff-riot as Hollywood tends to present it as. Reality's SAN checks aren't as obvious, and the losses can hide for a long time... But, in any event it's all your game - be you player or Keeper, y'all have the control; the DG list is "slack time", as it were, where kicking back and relaxing is the usual object. > Plus you are all missing one very vital point about names. If you > know the name, the true name of your foe, you will have a power over > him. As my mother would say think on. Uhm, nyet. Only if you're allowing D&D-type spells, methinks. Knowing that it's Y'golonac (or an avatar thereof) chewing through your door doesn't make much difference, unless you have Dismiss Y'golonac or suchlike... which begets the next note, that the names we *do* have for these entities are unlikely to be the mystic-s__t "True Name" of "magikal" lore - Y'golonac possibly means "Yo, Fat Boy!" or something perhaps less smartassed. If someone wished to find out the "True Name" of a Mythos entity (something from, say, Lesser Servitor on up to GOO or above) I'd make 'em work for it - and assess some *major* Sanity erosion. (To truly know Nyarlathotep's name, one would almost have to "know" it in the correct frame of reference - and the human mind is obviously *not* suited to such.) Thanks for allowing me to rant all over the mailing-list, however... Here, Glaaki-Glaaki-Glaaki... Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 22:24:45 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: D&D&Deliverance > It means... ummm... there were these city guys who went into the >fictionalized rural south, and... Aw, just see the movie. > I completely agree! > I have to say, I've never even heard rumors in the real South about the kinds >of nastiness shown in the film "Deliverance." But as a portrayal of decay and >evil, it was downright quasi-Lovecraftian. Who knows what else those two >hunters would have done with poor old Ned Beatty if Burt Reynolds hadn't shown >up. "Did ye ever hear tell of a Shoggoth?" > Despite modern times, there are still a *lot* of areas of the country that are *very* backwoods and deserted. Lots of the rural south, the hill country of Appalachia (my kins' stomping grounds), the deserts of Nevada, lots of Idaho and Montana. There's still a lot of room for old-style Lovecratianism. - -Jim (whose investigators are about to discover some of that for themselves...) - -Jim =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Music is the art of being physical." -Wynton Marsalis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:19:33 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: Re: DG: Dear M.I.B. > > Dear Fearful, > > The way the secret masters see it, you have two options: > > 1) Hose them all in embarassingly ridiculous ways straight out of > Paranoia RPG until they scream out loud that they just can't take it > anymore. (I suggest an Elder Sign Forehead Tattoo for starters) ooooo...now there's an idea.... > > 2) Learn the lyrics and have a sing along, Karaoke style. METALLICA KICKS > ASS~! METALLICA ROCKS~! uh...now that's just cruel and unusual punishment... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 22:31:07 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: DG: new spells > I have been planning a Vampire campaign where Tremere (who seems to be > infected with Vicissitude) has developed a series of magical rituals based > on Diablerie and the Bitter Rose thing. Basically it prevents his soul > from being eaten by feeding diablerie soul fragments to the souleater > inside him. Thus he gets to keep Vicissitude and his Soul. that sparks an idea or two...the rules on spell use/creation for DG and for CoC are pretty vague. I think they were intended more as a plot device rather than a character's tool, save the banishment spells of course... so, my question is - where can I find rules for PC's to develop thier own spells (presuming they want to ditch the SAN to learn such a process). The reason I ask is that I run my major NPC's just like they were Player characters and award them exp just like the PC's would get (well, sort of a neg san score really...it's just to keep score...). I know that you can learn them from books, and quite probably from summoned critters, but what if you want to develop a spell of you're own? Something like 'fireball' would be out of the question...but how about something that scrambles physical evidence at a crime scene or makes it easier to tell if a subject is lying to you... just some thoughts... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:23:47 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: new spells At 10:31 PM 7/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >that sparks an idea or two...the rules on spell use/creation for DG and for >CoC are pretty vague. I think they were intended more as a plot device >rather than a character's tool, save the banishment spells of course... >so, my question is - where can I find rules for PC's to develop thier own >spells (presuming they want to ditch the SAN to learn such a process). There aren't any, and (IMO) for good reason. Spells in CoC are indeed, as you put it, plot devices. They're alien science preserved from the records of pre-human civilizations, passed down in fragmentary form through the writing of madmen. They're flashes of madness, warping of the fabric of reality, not tools to be picked up and used with as little thought as a hammer. The more you understand the Mythos, the more it affects your mind - and if someone understood it enough to be able to completely re-work it, I doubt they would be able to function at all. Off the top of my head, I can't remember a single Mythos story in which a person _creates_ a spell. You're free to ignore that, but I think it says a great deal about the genre. >The >reason I ask is that I run my major NPC's just like they were Player >characters and award them exp just like the PC's would get (well, sort of a >neg san score really...it's just to keep score...). This is slightly off-topic, but I'd rather make my NPCs more powerful in accordance with the strengths of the players. > I know that you can >learn them from books, and quite probably from summoned critters, but >what if you want to develop a spell of you're own? IMO, you're shit out of luck. > Something like >'fireball' would be out of the question...but how about something that >scrambles physical evidence at a crime scene or makes it easier to tell if a >subject is lying to you... just some thoughts... Two points: 1) Once you let the cat out of the bag on this, there'll be little you can do to stop it. Sooner or later, someone will want to create a fireball spell, and unless you have a developed set of rationale for it, the only reason you'll be able to give will be a weak "it's not allowed". 2) The examples you have given are more crutches for players than anything else. Think of it this way: A person who was creating a spell would probably have to be brilliant, possessed of great knowledge, and have a great willpower, right? So why can't this wonderful talented individual figure out how to clean up the crime scene, or tell if the witness is lying, on his own? Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "Wool is wool. Wool is a pack of lies." -- Richard S. Shaver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:07:01 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: Re: DG: new spells > Off the top of my head, I can't remember a single Mythos story in which > a person _creates_ a spell. You're free to ignore that, but I think it says > a great deal about the genre. you know, I think you're right...I know a few adventures happen because some idiot found/rediscovered a spell...but I don't think I can remember one where some bozo created the spell that caused the trouble...well, there *was* a few where Nylarthotep (sp?) gave a new spell or two away to cause trouble, but he IS an Outer God so I guess he's the exception to the rule...(I'm thinking of the Time travel spell, can't remember which book it was in...) > This is slightly off-topic, but I'd rather make my NPCs more powerful in > accordance with the strengths of the players. that just encourages my group to blow stuff up...which causes them to all get killed/tossed in jail/die resisting arrest and no phone calls from anyone for a week or until I get a case of beer as peace offering.. some people have no sense of humor... > Two points: > > 1) Once you let the cat out of the bag on this, there'll be little you can do > to stop it. Sooner or later, someone will want to create a fireball spell, > and > unless you have a developed set of rationale for it, the only reason you'll > be able to give will be a weak "it's not allowed". > well, you could always argue 4th dimensional topographics won't allow it, or allow it and tell them it seems to be working fine...then let them find out they've really been tapping the life force of Azatoth or Cthauaga (that other mythos fire god, don't have me book in front of me...) and it's going to want to discuss the matter with them...hey, that's not a bad idea after all...hmm.... > 2) The examples you have given are more crutches for players than > anything else. Think of it this way: A person who was creating a spell > would probably have to be brilliant, possessed of great knowledge, and > have a great willpower, right? So why can't this wonderful talented > individual figure out how to clean up the crime scene, or tell if the witness > is lying, on his own? smart people have thier blind spots too, you know. 'sides, just cause you're smart don't mean you don't have an ego...and altering reality would be a big ego boost. I admit, it'd be easier to just mop up like the rest of the world...but it could come down to the personality involved... some good points tho...something for me to consider... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:19:50 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: DG: Re: Silly Ammo-Mongering On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:27:22 -0700 paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) writes: > >On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:30:36 GMT0BST Robert Thomas > writes: > >> >>Wasn't this in one of the Bond Movies IIRC? > > >Yes. >It was "Thunderball" , I think. The small rocket was manufactured by >Gyrojet that was fired from the cigarette. >Phil Yes, I've read of this concept. The rocket is ignited by a fuse that is built into the front of the "cigarette", extending back to the tale of the rocket. (These were somewhat smaller than the stock Gyrojet round, and were called the Microjet...) At least in theory, the filter was supposed to provide some protection to the agent smoking the "cigarette" from the rocket exhaust. (Though I think the agent was really supposed to take the "cigarette" from his mouth and point it at the target just before ignition...) The rocket would go supersonic inside of a couple of feet, and had very respectable stopping power for a small kinetic-kill round. I've even seen a suggestion that an agent with a pack of these "cigarettes", set up to volley-fire after he had ripped off the top, could deal with a room-full of bad guys! This is something the Company probably still keeps around in its equivalent of "Q branch"... :) CAUTION: Smoking may be hazardous to the health of the bad guy standing next to you! The first mention of rocket pistols was in "Armageddon 2319" (Yes, the original "Buck Rogers"!) The American troops in the novel carried rocket small-arms with some fairly powerful explosive headed ammo -- giving each squad the firepower of a battery of light artillery! And the rocket pistol might not be quite dead! I recall reading of a Russian (?) version for use by frogmen who wanted something more dangerous than a standard speargun! Michael theherald@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:01:21 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: new spells At 12:07 AM 7/3/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> Off the top of my head, I can't remember a single Mythos story in which >> a person _creates_ a spell. You're free to ignore that, but I think it >says >> a great deal about the genre. > >you know, I think you're right...I know a few adventures happen because >some idiot found/rediscovered a spell...but I don't think I can remember >one where some bozo created the spell that caused the trouble...well, >there *was* a few where Nylarthotep (sp?) gave a new spell or two >away to cause trouble, but he IS an Outer God so I guess he's the >exception to the >rule...(I'm thinking of the Time travel spell, can't >remember which book it was in...) Shadows of Yog-Sothoth. I think this is a better way for introducing a new spell, because it gives you a great amount of control of what the players get. After all, are they going to say, "You know, Nyarlathotep, I'm not sure if I want that..."? >> This is slightly off-topic, but I'd rather make my NPCs more powerful >>in accordance with the strengths of the players. >that just encourages my group to blow stuff up...which causes them to all >get killed/tossed in jail/die resisting arrest and no phone calls from >anyone for a week or until I get a case of beer as peace offering.. I'd keep doing it until they figured out not to blow stuff up, then. Seriously, though, I think that giving GM characters experience like normal PCs would tend to make the GM get attached to them and lead to a GM vs. the players mentality. If Dr. Frankenfurter needs an 89% in Psychoanalysis for the next session, I say give it to him and be done with it. >> 1) Once you let the cat out of the bag on this, there'll be little you >can do >> to stop it. Sooner or later, someone will want to create a fireball >spell, >> and >> unless you have a developed set of rationale for it, the only reason >you'll >> be able to give will be a weak "it's not allowed". >> >well, you could always argue 4th dimensional topographics won't allow >it, Which, to most players in my experience, is the same as "it's not allowed". >or allow it and tell them it seems to be working fine...then let them find >out they've really been tapping the life force of Azatoth or Cthauaga (that >other mythos fire god, don't have me book in front of me...) and it's going >to want to discuss the matter with them...hey, that's not a bad idea after >all...hmm.... Nah... you'd have to explain why someone else didn't figure out about fireballs first... It seems that having fireballs at all would violate much of the mood of the setting. If the players want to play something with fireballs, break out Mage or something like that. >> 2) The examples you have given are more crutches for players than >> anything else. Think of it this way: A person who was creating a spell >> would probably have to be brilliant, possessed of great knowledge, and >> have a great willpower, right? So why can't this wonderful talented >> individual figure out how to clean up the crime scene, or tell if the >> witness is lying, on his own? >smart people have thier blind spots too, you know. They do. Yet in the time it took to come up with a new spell, surely any person could figure out a number of different ways to deal with the situation. For example, why can't the person who can't tell whether a person is lying spend some time improving his Psychology skill? Buy a lie detector? They may not be as useful, but they both do a great deal to resolve the problem and would be a helluvalot simpler than trying to warp the very fabric of space/time to do it. > 'sides, just cause >you're smart don't mean you don't have an ego...and altering reality would >be a big ego boost. I admit, it'd be easier to just mop up like the rest >of the world...but it could come down to the personality involved... That's hardly a reason for giving the PCs this magic to begin with. My main objection to this type of spell is that investigators are supposed to be investigating, not casting spells left-and-right. They're more of a "quick-fix" for a situation than something which adds to the game. After all, what's more memorable - having the PCs frantically try to cover up the crime scene before the police arrive, or having someone say, "We cast Destroy Crime Scene, 15' R."? It seems to be more of an excuse for character (and player) laziness than a believable and atmosphere-creating addition to the setting. Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "Wool is wool. Wool is a pack of lies." -- Richard S. Shaver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 16:46:10 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: DG: Homicide in the age of firearms - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've been lurking around for the last little bit and I noticed that people are talking alot about guns. Somewhere, someone mentioned that people would just kill each other with melee weapons, like knives and lead pipes. Yes, this is true, but it's harder to kill someone with in this way. What guns have done to murder is to make it less personal, less meaningful, easier. To kill a man with a club or a knife, you have to get up close and personal and do it with your hands. With a gun, you don't have to see their insides come out. To kill quickly and efficiently with a melee weapon takes training, which usually teacjes you more than how to kill, but also the discipline not to do so at a whim. Their is no soecial training to learn how to kill a man with a gun; point and shoot is so easy that a child could (and often does) do it. The introduction of firearms into the world, and the subsequent mass production of them (making them available to most anyone with the money and/or connections) changed the world for the worse. But the damage has already been done; to ban firearms would take them away from people who obey the law while the bussiness interests would still sell to the people who get guns to the black market. Murder is as mass produced as the ability to commit it. Their is no longer any glory in killing an opponent, as their was in the days of knights and samuri (sp?). Without discipline, all that is left is murder. The act has lost alot of its meaning, and thus, it is taken on more lightly and is commited more widely. Guns have taken everything but the horror and greif out of a killing, and what is left has been multiplied manyfold. Most firearm deaths in america are spur of the moment crimes of passion, or accidents and would not have occered if the firearm was not readily available. If man discovers his wive has had an affair and grabbed a bat and beat his wife instead of using a gun, the odds are much better for her to survive. At least 50% of murders are crimes of passion commited by people who would be one-time offenders. The presence of a gun in the situation just make them more likely to result in death. Most of these, often familial murders are sorely regreted by the murderer, who would not have committed the crime if the instrument were not at hand. (This is not because of lack of trying, only because it's harder to kill without a firearm.) But what can you do? Guns are out and people use them maliciously against other people. In order to defend yourself in that situation, you need to be on the same level, making the legality of firearms a neccesity. The possession af a firearm during such an inciden also make the defenders chance of being killed by a gunshot jump by 300%, but that is the chance you take when you present yourself as a rival. I could go on, but I think I've said everything that I want to at the moment. Regards, <<< R. Menzi >>> - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNZvxkahFxkX3nANTEQJTMACg6+Q6+6sQXIBTpQhCwI/YVSqPOBoAoJQj Ckp8LbfeF3oP+gosh0U0TYZ6 =R6Cj - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #60 *******************************