From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #62 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Saturday, July 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 062 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:20:41 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: new spells (followup) - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Gerry Mckelvey 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月3日 12:09 件名 : DG: new spells >so, my question is - where can I find rules for PC's to develop thier own >spells (presuming they want to ditch the SAN to learn such a process Oops, something I forgot. Well, CoC really doesn't have what you'd call an organized magic system, so there's no rules for creating spells. Sometimes I think that's great, but the spell lists in the rulebook are a mess, everything just jumbled together (except for the Greater Grimiore, which is a little organized but still without system). I've been fiddling with adapting the KULT magic system--which frankly is also quite confusing, but it's a framework at least. I've just ordered Golden Dawn, which I'm really looking forward to. I'd kind of like to have some sort of system, at least for Lesser Grimiore spells. David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:07 EDT From: PaganArt@aol.com Subject: DG: No Subject Hey guys, Just wanted to let you all know (as we just found out), Pagan has won the ORIGINS award for DELTA GREEN as best Role-Playing supplement. Woo-hooh! Me Scott and Tynes are now going to get drunk! - -Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:48:34 EDT From: Imandos@aol.com Subject: DG: A nonflame question. Please take this as a real question and not an invitation to an argument. What are the laws in various countries, states, provinces or wherever anyone on this list is from regarding the carrying of firearms by both Government agents and citizens. Views about the right to carry firearms aside, I simply want to know the laws, so my DG simulation can be accurate if my agents go to areas I am not familiar with. Anyone who can answer this information about both concealed, openly carried, and none allowed to be carried, please do so, as the rules of other countries and other areas in the USA would greatly help me. Feel free to email me off the list if you like. I think the laws of various areas would be helpful to all our agents. The same is true of such laws as breaking and entering and the rights of the press and the prosecuted. Once again, if you send to the list please list only the laws and not your views of them so there will be no hard feelings. we are all in this conspiracy together, let's cooperate against our common foes. By the way, I would also be interested in environmental laws outside the USA. My players have found such laws helpful in our simulation. Thomas Woodall Imandos@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:32:41 -0700 From: "Bruce Baugh" Subject: DG: Re: A nonflame question. From: Imandos@aol.com > Please take this as a real question and not an invitation to an argument. >What are the laws in various countries, states, provinces or wherever anyone >on this list is from regarding the carrying of firearms by both Government >agents and citizens. Views about the right to carry firearms aside, I simply I'm a little thin on documentation on the matters at the moment, but DG GMs and players may well wish to know about the THOMAS server at http://thomas.loc.gov/ - this outstanding reference site lets you get at laws passed by the United States government with keyword searches, by law number, by sponsors, and various other ways. It is a really marvelous thing to keep handy. Actual law tends to be at least as horrific as the Cthulhu Mythos. :) And it has links to other useful sites, like http://lcweb.loc.gov/global/judiciary.html - national and circuit court rulings and other neat stuff there. - -- Bruce Baugh brucebaugh@mindspring.com http://brucebaugh.home.mindspring.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:56:02 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: A nonflame question. I'm afraid it gets a little confusing in some areas. CONCEALED weapon permits vary from city to city in their difficulty to obtain. For example; in Sacramento, Calif., where I live, it used to be the case that one could obtain one if one carried large sums of cash or had a high risk occupation. Failing those criteria, simply becoming a Reserve police officer(which meant doing traffic control for a few parades) would suffice. It is supposed to be a bit harder now. In the nearby small town of Isleton the local Mayor doubled the town's operating budget by giving anyone with a clean criminal record a concealed weapons permit... for a fairly hefty fee regardless of where they actually lived as long as it was somewhere in Calif. This provides the GM with a good opportunity to set up a "social engineering situation" in the game. Hope this helps. Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:08:58 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: No Subject CONGRATULATIONS!!! Delta Green deserved it (and a couple of others that it didn't get) I hope this will bring you tons of success. My very best regards and wishes, Phil On Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:07 EDT PaganArt@aol.com writes: >Hey guys, > >Just wanted to let you all know (as we just found out), Pagan has won >the >ORIGINS award for DELTA GREEN as best Role-Playing supplement. >Woo-hooh! > >Me Scott and Tynes are now going to get drunk! > >-Dennis > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 08:31:31 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: DG: Re: No Subject Congratulations!!! This is a first-rate thing y'all have done, and I'm glad that the industry's standing up and taking notice!!!! - -Jim > Just wanted to let you all know (as we just found out), Pagan has won the > ORIGINS award for DELTA GREEN as best Role-Playing supplement. Woo-hooh! > > Me Scott and Tynes are now going to get drunk! > > -Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:18:18 +0900 From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko Noyes) Subject: Re: DG: Re: A nonflame question. >number, by sponsors, and various other ways. It is a really marvelous thing >to keep handy. Actual law tends to be at least as horrific as the Cthulhu >Mythos. :) Hmmm. Lawyers = insane cultists. My fellow agents, we are in a target-rich environment. Enjoy. Jay - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- On retreat: Rincewind: "Come on, let's run away." Eric: "Where to?" Rincewind: "Don't you worry about _to_. In my experience that always takes care of itself. The important word is _away_." Terry Pratchett, "Eric" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:41:04 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: No Subject On Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:07 EDT PaganArt@aol.com writes: >Hey guys, > >Just wanted to let you all know (as we just found out), Pagan has won >the >ORIGINS award for DELTA GREEN as best Role-Playing supplement. >Woo-hooh! > >Me Scott and Tynes are now going to get drunk! > >-Dennis > Congratulations! Michael theherald@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:49:55 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: DG: Re: A nonflame question. On Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:18:18 +0900 ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko Noyes) writes: >>number, by sponsors, and various other ways. It is a really marvelous >thing >>to keep handy. Actual law tends to be at least as horrific as the >Cthulhu >>Mythos. :) > > Hmmm. Lawyers = insane cultists. > > My fellow agents, we are in a target-rich environment. Enjoy. > > >Jay Right! Don't think of it as being incredibly outnumbered -- think of it as having a wide choice of targets! Michael theherald@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:29:39 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: DG: Getting guns << How heavy armament a DG member FBI agent can access and use on DG operations without catching attention ? Will it be different for the other agencies, for example ATF ? Or in general how can a DG agent abuse his/her organization to get resources for DG ? >> This will depend entirely on whether the players are attepting to get their equipemt legally, or through DG's illegal means. If they are getting it "under the table," then I too like the "Whim" method: if you feel like letting them carry it, then tell them that their DG contact had access to it through whatever means. But that begs the other question, how is gear "officially" obtained? Each major federal law enforcement agency has an extensive array of paramilitary resources. The FBI's Hostage Rescue Team and their regional SWAT Teams have the most immediate access to equipment, as does the U.S. Marshal Service's Special Operations Group; and the ATF, given their raids against targets reputed to illegally possess machine guns or rocket launchers or worse, is (in)famous for the heavy gear of its agents when conducting raids. But all these law enforcement agencies share the factor which will prove a challenge to Delta Green operatives seeking armaments: all of it must be signed out. The paper trail is steep: it should be very clear exactly who has the Big Guns, who LET them have them, what they are to be used for, and whether they were in fact used. That includes ammo: if an agent turns in 6 fewer rounds than he took out, eyebrows and official inquiries will be raised. But to answer the original question of WHAT they can get: FBI agents in the field can fairly easily sign out MP5 submachine guns and 12-gauge shotguns to use in conducting a raid; the SWAT team will have access to M-16 assault rifles and to sniper rifles, usually .30-06 or 7.62mm NATO caliber, as well as tear-gas launchers and body armor. They will NOT likely have access to military hardware like machine guns, squad assault weapons, or grenade launchers. But Delta Green may perfectly well have access to those things, by the route that DG would almost certainly take to get its gear: the military. DG ops are black operations, and DG includes military personnel who are involved with black ops on a regular basis. Let's say a platoon from SEAL Team Seven is to be sent on a black operation to annihilate a small terrorist outpost someplace where relations are too sensitive for the U.S. to publicly admit to the deed (like, for instance, just about ANYWHERE). The Seals will go in with grenade launchers, assault rifles, sniper rifles, submachine guns, maybe even a machine gun or two, all of it gear written off of some other service's supply list as "damaged" or "destroyed." Knowing DG's needs, Agent DARREN, Captain of Seal Team Seven, can skim some of that "destroyed" gear away from the black op and send it with a DG friendly or agent to a safe house, where other DG operatives can pick it up to store it away against future need. The stuff is already being sent along without any records, so as long as DARREN and his cohorts are careful the chance of the "skimmed" gear being noticed as missing will be small. That's one possible example; apply variations to get similar effects for other branches of service or other federal agencies. Note that this technique will become more difficult with more expensive and rare equipment: listing a dozen M-16 rifles as "destroyed" and sneaking them away will be much easier than squirreling away, say, an F-15. ;-) But hey, DG has some shills in the Air Force (and the air corps of the Navy and Marines) too, right...? Now, I can offer no advice for those of you running non U.S.-based campaigns. If anyone knows how covert actions are carried out by British or other governments' militaries, please advise us. Shane Ivey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:02:15 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: Re: DG: new spells > Shadows of Yog-Sothoth. I think this is a better way for introducing a > new spell, because it gives you a great amount of control of what the > players get. After all, are they going to say, "You know, Nyarlathotep, > I'm not sure if I want that..."? I've used something similar in other games too...get 'help' from one Bad Guy to defeat another Bad Guy, of course, no matter what, they're helping at least one bad guy get more powerful...it's not something I do very often, but I've found that it really motivates me players to get the bad guy who helped them...I can usu spin quite a few adventures out such a situation and everyone has a great time... > I'd keep doing it until they figured out not to blow stuff up, then. > Seriously, though, I think that giving GM characters experience like normal > PCs would tend to make the GM get attached to them and lead to a > GM vs. the players mentality. If Dr. Frankenfurter needs an 89% in > Psychoanalysis for the next session, I say give it to him and be done with > it. Not really...I *do* try to make my villans as believeable as I can...Letting them advance mostly like a PC tends to make them more balanced characters...except for some things I have to give them to advance my plotline... > > Which, to most players in my experience, is the same as "it's not allowed". nah...just give them a few beers before the explanation next time...that tends to make the rules arguments go away...well, except for our resident rules lawyer...I usu don't waste the beer on him, I just quote random page numbers for various rule books and let him go look them up to see if I'm BSing him.. > That's hardly a reason for giving the PCs this magic to begin with. I like to give the PC's something to consider...esp when they have to think along the lines of 'ok, if I cast this spell, I advance my goals, but I'm no better than the guys I defeated to get this far and my buddies will hunt me down 'cause I've damned myself or I could just do things the right way and be safe' they hate that sort of thing..that's when they usu resort to guns...I think its called 'mis-placed aggression' but I'm not sure... > > My main objection to this type of spell is that investigators are supposed > to be investigating, not casting spells left-and-right. They're more of a > "quick-fix" for a situation than something which adds to the game. After > all, what's more memorable - having the PCs frantically try to cover up the > crime scene before the police arrive, or having someone say, "We cast > Destroy Crime Scene, 15' R."? It seems to be more of an excuse for > character (and player) laziness than a believable and atmosphere-creating > addition to the setting. depends on what ya gotta do to cast the spell...I'd never make it that simple... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:05:01 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: DG: Re: RE: new spells (followup) Oops, something I forgot. Well, CoC really doesn't have what you'd call an organized magic system, so there's no rules for creating spells. Sometimes I think that's great, but the spell lists in the rulebook are a mess, everything just jumbled together (except for the Greater Grimiore, which is a little organized but still without system). Query: 'Greater Grimiore'? What's that? It sounds like something cool...I have no willpower when it comes to new game suppliments (a fact that most game marketers out there are counting on, I'm sure...) Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:57:57 -0500 From: "Charles Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Re: DG Enchanted Weapons > >>> Hmm... I wonder if you could use one of those fluorocarbon > synthetic blood substitutes? (Or would your cruise missile then > only destroy synthetic artificial monsters?):) <<< > > not really necessary, though you must plan ahead. You need to > draw anough blood to cover the missile and store it. The blood > must be from the caster, so you can't do a constant transfusion > thing to get the blood back. A pint of blood (with the normal > cell count) will recover in about a month, so this is a > preparation that will take some time and alot of > light-headedness. > > Regards, > <<< R. Menzi >>> Not to rain on MIB's and R. Menzi's parade or anything, because they had some pretty good ideas, but the spell required the caster to draw the blood with a specially prepared blade at the time of the casting. No cheating alowed! I felt pretty magnanimous letting my players have the capability at all. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:26:19 -0500 From: "Charles Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Code Book (keepers only) Various and Sundry Replies In > > CoC the idea was to use your wits and intelligence to try to stop > > cosmic horror. Delta Green is over-reliant on hi-powered weaponry and > > technology, and the belief that the bad agent can triumph because he > > is one bad-assed mother. You have in effect turned a very fine role > > playing game into a modern day D&D. Almost from the beginning, 1st ed. _Call of Cthulhu_, I ran the game in the 1980's - 90's. I ran a campaign based around a secret govenrment organization. The characters still had to defeat the Mythos entities with brainpower, not firepower. Just last night I had a CoC game with an old friend. His charater was from the old days in my campaign. He explained to the new players that guns were for dealing with cultists and lesser creatures. As I posted in the Codes thread, guns in my campaign are refered to as "security blankets." Oh, yes, one other use for a gun in CoC is to kill your fellow investigators when they go insane and are carrying submachineguns. It's a characters' inside joke in my campaign to never say anything like, "I'm just not feeling like myself today." The response is to put a gun to the person's head and say "Who do you feel like." As for other kinds of technology, who in their right mind wouldn't use satelite imaging, night-vision goggles, fast cars, and laser sights if they had access to them. I certainly would! It's remarkably easy to get these things if you know where to look for them, and if you don't know, you make do with what you have. And if you don't stamp out the cults as you encounter them, how do you deal with them. My characters have nightmares about cultist that got away. What are they doing out there? They're rebuilding their cults! Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:49:27 -0500 From: "Charles Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: D&D&Deliverance > Despite modern times, there are still a *lot* of areas of the country that > are *very* backwoods and deserted. Lots of the rural south, the hill country > of Appalachia (my kins' stomping grounds), the deserts of Nevada, lots of > Idaho and Montana. There's still a lot of room for old-style Lovecratianism. Lovecraft wrote specifically of the swamp dwellers (cajuns) near New Orleans in several stories, as well as the back-woods people in New England and primitive peoples from around the globe. I live in Mississippi. I have for most of my life. Cable TV and computer controlled fuel injection has not changed the essential nature of my fellow Mississippians, neither for good nor ill. We are still the same people we were 100 years ago. We just have more stuff. I can drive out from Jackson in any direction and hit rural farmlands and thick forest in a matter of 20 minutes or so. Lovecraft's cultists often hid in plain sight. Read "The Thing on the Doorstep", "The Festival", and "The Shadow over Innsmouth" for three different cults and individuals operating out in the open. Watch "American Gothic" on the Sci-Fi Channel to see how a community will tolerate evil if it stays vague enough or doesn't confront them directly. Rural areas and low income suburbs are also choice places to set up drug labs and distribution points. They have been popular for years with international terrorist groups as safe houses and bomb factories. College towns are noted for eclectic youth. Nothing has really changed since Lovecraft's time except points of methodology. Byakhee do not show up on radar, I use them in games for smuggling. The Deep Ones are just as good for that role in coastal areas. And the Mississippi River Valley gives Deep Ones access almost to the Great Lakes. Stay sharp, there are cracks in the sidewalks. And they hide some really ugly things. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:53:54 -0500 From: "Charles Baucum Jr." Subject: DG: Re: Homicide in the age of firearms > Yes, this is true, but it's harder to kill someone with in this > way. What guns have done to murder is to make it less personal, > less meaningful, easier. To kill a man with a club or a knife, > you have to get up close and personal and do it with your hands. > With a gun, you don't have to see their insides come out. To > kill quickly and efficiently with a melee weapon takes training, > which usually teacjes you more than how to kill, but also the > discipline not to do so at a whim. Their is no soecial training > to learn how to kill a man with a gun; point and shoot is so easy > that a child could (and often does) do it. > I understand that the City of New York is trying to ban the carrying of the streetdealers new weapon of choice - the baseball bat. It is an unconfirmed rumor, to me, but worth looking into if you're inrterested in that sort of thing. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:55:37 -0500 From: Nightstar Subject: Re: DG: Guns & Ammo Threads At 01:50 PM 7/3/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Just to put in my two cents: I would really rather see gun stuff not >directly related to DG kept off the thread. It is fairly irritating to >get a batch of mail and find as many off-topic posts as on-topic ones. > >Furthermore, gun control, like other politically charged issues, tends to >divide people and result in lots of flames, without ever resolving >anything. They also tend to go on a very long time if they're not nipped >in the bud. There have already been a few "baiting" posts, and while no >one has so far risen to the challenge, I can't help but think it's only a >matter of time. > >I know Chris would probably rather not have to throw his >weight around, but it's better to politely but firmly lay down some >ground rules now than risk having to end up deleting half a dozen >off-topic threads after everyone is pissed off and half the group has >left in frustration. I've seen it happen on other mailing lists, and >it's not a pretty sight. > >There are roughly a gazillion usenet groups, chat boards and mailing lists >for people who want to discuss guns, but this is the only place to talk >Delta Green. > > >- Eric. > > Half the group might leave in frustration if they feel censorship is raising its ugly head. I have been following this thread since it started and if there have been any flaming baits, I missed them totally. I think this thread will come to a natural end as people lose interest in it. If you try to censor it, you will only give it new life. The world loves a cause and if there are flamers here, any cause will do. - ----------------------------------------------------------- Finally, a light at the end of the tunnel......heh heh heh. Nightstar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 15:15:07 -0500 From: Nightstar Subject: Re: DG: Guns & Ammo Threads At 08:45 PM 7/3/98 EDT, you wrote: > I am one of the individuals responsible for the guns discussion on this >list. I ceratinly did not want to bait anyone into an argument or to make >to find out the opinions of others on the list about gun control as it applies >to DG. Let's keep it friendly. > >Thomas Woodall >Imandos@aol.com > I feel this discussion about guns, etc. has been healthy and well conducted. I have not noticed any animosity in the posts. However, now I am detecting animosity regarding censoring topics. Therefore, in the interest of being politically correct on this list, and not wanting to broach any topics that someone might have beliefs about, I submit the following topics as potentially too controversial for discussion on this list. 1. Guns and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 2. Religion and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 3. Sex and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 4. Politics and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 5. Violence and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 6. Ethnic culture and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 7. Feminism and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 8. World politics and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 9. Microsoft and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. 10. Censorship and any references to such unless the sentence contains some variation of DG. Any discussion on any of these points, even if it includes DG, should not go beyond 2 or 3 postings lest it become a "flame fest". Did I miss anything? - ----------------------------------------------------------- Finally, a light at the end of the tunnel......heh heh heh. Nightstar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 16:57:51 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: DG: baseball bats in NYC - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>> I understand that the City of New York is trying to ban the carrying of the streetdealers new weapon of choice - the baseball bat. It is an unconfirmed rumor, to me, but worth looking into if you're inrterested in that sort of thing. <<< With the way the Mayor is going these days, I wouldn't be surprised. The same thing made carrying brass knukles a felony offence here. Though the fact that bats have a place in a sport make it unlikely, though they might be classified as a deadly weapon if they are not already. (That would make using one carry a longer sentence.) However, I seriously doubt that the major dealers (who are looking at enough time for their business) would have any problems with using a gun. In the end, illegal trades that also carry guns are self-correcting; the security that the firearm give them an attitude much more likely to get on one of their peers lists of people to take out of the game. I guess it's like that with the feds, too. If you believe they are going to come down on you and you prepare to defend yourself from them (like the Branch Dividians), you preparations make you a target. (It should be noted that with the popularity of the "wait 'em out" tactic, these things are going to end less violently in the future, unless DG is involved, but them the agents will plant evidence to make it seem like self-defense, if not cover it up entirely.) Regards, <<< R. Menzi >>> - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNZ6XT6hFxkX3nANTEQIRgQCg6YaphGDWJ6JHfqKtlVVdi5LWeLAAnjGA H/c1PO94tZxLPazOr4LMdCus =A4lp - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:13:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Re: Homicide in the age of firearms On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Charles Baucum Jr. wrote: > I understand that the City of New York is trying to ban the carrying of the > streetdealers new weapon of choice - the baseball bat. It is an > unconfirmed rumor, to me, but worth looking into if you're inrterested in > that sort of thing. A report I had, from the early '90s or so when I was doing CiruitNet's FIREARMS echo, was that Paris, France, had actually banned the possession of baseball bats in public, unless actually engaged in playing a game, citing gang violence. Might be urban legend, but at the time I didn't have access to the material needed to verify. I'd offer the original article, but that's seriously buried - text-file, ZIP'd, in the megs and megs of saved-text that I've collected over the years... As for actual firearms laws, I'd expect the NRA to have a web-accessable database of such things. (If not them, someone of a similar bent; admittedly, it'll be somewhat biased, but I'm fairly certain that they'll keep the politicking out of the legal text, if only to make sure their audience doesn't get busted by mistake.) Another gem from CircuitNet: at that time, Florida had a non-resident CCW permit. (I forget the details, but I just reread the article recently, so I know I can find *that* one. ) Due to the construction of Michigan's state CCW law, they recognised (on a reciprocal basis) out-of-state permits, and thus Michiganites were applying for the Florida permit to carry concealed... the article also noted that someone in the state Attorney-General's office (IIRC) was trying to get that changed. Currently, here in the Spokane, Washington area, Spokane County recognises Boundary County (Idaho, north of Cour 'd Alaine - specifically, Athol) pistol permits; I'm not sure if the person in question has a CCW, but available information suggests that he still carries a loaded .38 under the driver's seat of his car. (Some has claimed that hauling it over the ID/WA border violates Federal laws on "Interstate Transportation of a Firarm", but I'd prefer to see this fella take a different felony - I'm pretty sure he won't stop packing, and having him get his "third strike" for felon-with-a-gun/Fed firearms beef would make me feel all warm and happy inside. ) Another CircuitNet bit: at that time, Arizona law allowed open-carry in public - apparently, you might be barred from the mall, but carrying a Glock in a tactical thigh holster to garage sales was OK. I don't believe it applied to longarms. Something even older: once, in the early '70s, the City of Industry (as I remember), an incorporated town within the city limits of Los Angeles, was issuing it's motorcyle officers 12-gauge pump shotguns, which were carried on a locking-mount on the bike, muzzle-down on the front of one saddlebag. The idea was, in case of riot or armed-robbery, the motor cops could get there quicker... and needed more than the issue .38/.357. (This one was in a compilation of articles from LAW ENFORCEMENT HANDGUN DIGEST, along with some interesting "non-lethal" ammo and the usual run of gun/cop-stuff.) I doubt it lasted very long, but it's something to think about, if you run an older urban scenario... who knows? It may have caught on, and motor cops would be carrying longarms in times of trouble... Don ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:04:54 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: Getting guns The easiest route for obtaining large amounts of ordinance if you don't mind it being less than state of the art is to have your group attached to a paramilitary "black" outfit that the CIA is sponsoring such as the Cuban immegre' Freedom Brigade during the '60s or the Contras in the '80s. Make a plausible one up out of today's headlines. There is no paper trail. Everyone wants "plausible deniability" Another route that could generate good roleplaying and serve as a good segue into the adventure proper is having the party go to Belgium to by their weapons, obtain a phony end use certificate from a corrupt embassy attache', etc. QUERY to any Belgian members: Does the "Gun Bourse" still do business on the Rue de Char et Pain (sp?) ? IMO doing something along these lines would be better than simply filling out a voucher for a ton of weapons in that it would help reinforse the covert nature of the group in the player's minds and give them time to interact in character and develop their character's personalities before the fecal matter impacts the rotating blades. Phil. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:33:51 -0700 (PDT) From: clever1@earthlink.net Subject: Re: DG: No Subject >Just wanted to let you all know (as we just found out), Pagan has won the >ORIGINS award for DELTA GREEN as best Role-Playing supplement. Woo-hooh! Congratulations guys, you deserve it. Have on on me... sc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: DG: Request for advice and anecdotes Dear All, I am about to embark on the first scenario in the DG book, "Puppet Shows and Shadow Plays" and I was looking for any advice, anecdotes and really any other experiences, player or keepers may have had while running this and the rest of the adventures in the book. Also, for handout-realism puritan visit http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ for endless zoomable aerial photographs of the entire planet. Wonderful for those pesky little green-triangled files we love so much, often slid across the dulled formica of a bureau desk. regards to one and all scott cleverdon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:20:14 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: DG: Re: Request for advice and anecdotes Dear All, > > I am about to embark on the first scenario in the DG book, "Puppet Shows and > Shadow Plays" and I was looking for > any advice, anecdotes and really any other experiences, player or keepers > may have had while running this and the rest of > the adventures in the book. whatever you do....don't ask the MiB for character concepts....I blew my SAN check on the Random Sexual Perversions table...but I'm much better now... If Mr. Squick was his idea of a run-of-the-mill NPC I shudder to think of him putting effort into an evil NPC... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:13:00 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: Re: DG: Re: Request for advice and anecdotes Being a newcomer to this list I am unaware of the instabilities of MIB's imaginanitive creations... at least not yet. Ia Ia etc. sc At 08:20 PM 7/4/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >Dear All, >> >> I am about to embark on the first scenario in the DG book, "Puppet Shows >and >> Shadow Plays" and I was looking for >> any advice, anecdotes and really any other experiences, player or keepers >> may have had while running this and the rest of >> the adventures in the book. > >whatever you do....don't ask the MiB for character concepts....I blew my >SAN check on the Random Sexual Perversions table...but I'm much better >now... > >If Mr. Squick was his idea of a run-of-the-mill NPC I shudder to think of >him putting effort into an evil NPC... > >Jerry McKelvey >Exitus Acta Probat. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:31:49 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Re: RE: new spells (greater & lesser grimoires) - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Gerry Mckelvey 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月5日 4:18 件名 : DG: Re: RE: new spells (followup) Jerry wrote: >Query: 'Greater Grimiore'? What's that? It sounds like something cool...I >have no willpower when it comes to new game suppliments (a fact that most >game marketers out there are counting on, I'm sure...) No need to buy anything new. In the 5th edition rules, the spells are split into 2 categories, the Greater and Lesser Grimoires. (Sorry, I spelled it wrong before.) The division is a little arbitrary. The Greater spells are pretty much the ones that were in the original rules, and I think most if not all can be found in the "canonical" stories. These are the Summon/Bind, Contact, Call/Dismiss, and Gate spells, plus that oh-so important spell, Create Elder Sign. Mixed with these are some other spells which may only be there because they were in the original edition of the rules--Brew Space Mead, Voorish Sign, etc. (Ah, almost forgot Mr. Squick's favorite, Resurrection.) The Lesser Grimoire is a jumble of spells from the various published adventures and other supplements. The only organization is alphabetical, and some of them pretty much duplicate each other--it's a bit of a mess, frankly:) This is where I'd like to see some structure. At the very least, the spells could be ranked by power or type or both; it's kind of a headache trying to pick out some cool spells for villainous wizards. Also, perhaps spells which are near-duplicates could be fused together. The new edition of the rules promises to have a dramatic increase in the number of spells. The horror, the horror! Anyway, I really like the spells in CoC for the most part; it really encourages the players NOT to use magic except when unavoidable. I think becoming too familiar with magic would take away some of the horror. That's why I said before that I make it even more unpleasant to cast spells. Yours, David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 01:06:40 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: Code Book (sigh) > >I was really just kidding about DG agents actually using such silly names, >but it's true that people, especially military and intel-ops people, have >always given belittling names to their enemies. It's just a way of dealing >with it. > I have had an interesting thought concerning Agents in such a situation "talking out" what may have just happened to them using humor and such. Might such a thing be worth some bonus SAN award? After all, I think we all admit that the use of humor, not necessarily rampantly, but used in context would ease the situation and stabilize the persons involved. I have a story that might illustrate my point. I work as a police dispatcher, and, during one very quiet midnight shift, we had a Trooper involved in a very brief high-speed chase. Due to the minor nature of the infraction for which the Trooper began the chase, he cut it off. After all, he did have the tag number of the car and it wasn't worth getting into something protracted at 3 AM on a Monday Morning. Well, after he broke off the chase, he turned onto another road and saw the car that he had been chasing flipping over repeatedly. He got to the accident scene and found the car, somewhat dented up, missing a back window and the driver. Not far from the car he saw an arm. Not to be intentionally gross, but there's a point to this. Well, several other officers got to the scene and began looking for the man. It was dead calm out there, and there was a pretty good ground fog. They could only hear their own footsteps and the faint moaning of the driver somewhere in the woods alongside the road. Well, they ended up finding him, though he passed away later. Back at the Barrack, the Troopers were telling me about it and there was still a lot of tension and fear obvious with them. It had not been a good situation to begin with, and the setting and such made it a lot worse. Well, after they had told me how creepy it was out there, and how genuinely spooked they had been, I looked at them and asked calmly, "What were you worried about? The guy was unarmed, wasn't he?". Admittedly, it was a terrible joke, but it did the job. Everyone laughed..a couple of them threatened to shoot me, but they relaxed and were able to focus on the job. Something of that sort happening in a DG adventure might be worth the recovery of a SAN or two, and some well-earned experience to the person who lightened the tension when it needed to be. Any thoughts on this here? - -Jim - -Jim =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Music is the art of being physical." -Wynton Marsalis ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #62 *******************************