From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #77 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, July 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 077 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:02:05 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: RE: Just a small question - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Florian Hanke 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月22日 8:26 件名 : Re: DG: RE: Just a small question Florian Hanke wrote: >Some time ago some scientists used their supercomputers to simulate evolution on >other planets, and most of the times the result looked very insect-like (not >insectoid-like), actually very similar to the mi-go, as they are portrayed. But, >honestly, I don't know how serious these studys were? Anyone seen something >similar? I saw a Learning Channel special about life on other worlds, and most of the life forms seemed insectile. However, I see no reason why they should be insectile rather than humanoid. Or whale-like. It all depends on the environment. What I really love about Lovecraft is how, long, long before scientists in the SETI movement were trying to point out that human-looking aliens are very unlikely, Lovecraft was writing about aliens who were radically non-humanoid. Of course, he borrowed parts from many animals, plants, and fungi, to craft chimerae, but he was still doing much better than the SF writers of the time (and for many years after). It's very difficult to imagine a truly alien life form. But life forms with a generally humanoid shape are certainly possible, perhaps even a bit more likely than a number of other shapes. I mean, we have proof that this shape works, since we're doing reasonably well with it. It allows us to see over objects, frees up our hands, puts our main senses up high, protects our most vital parts with bone--it's OK. Those scientists in the DG book who say the Grays are too humanoid are wrong--the problem is not that, but that they are too simple. Oh, and thanks for the info about Liber Ka. Be seeing you, David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:51:29 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: DG Sci Fi - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Jonathan P Keim 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月22日 1:20 件名 : DG: DG Sci Fi Agent Munch wrote: >Surely somebody has to >have done this! We had a Traveller game once that turned out to be a CoC game in disguise. It was set in the early days of FTL, and our characters were the crew of the first starship that could jump far enough to explore beyond the 3 or 4 closest stars. We were a Scout team, checking out likely places to colonize. The first couple of planets went OK, but then we damaged our hydrogen fuel processors and could only use "dirty" hydrogen scooped from gas giants, without the full processing job. So we misjumped, of course, and at the next place our engines were so damaged that we couldn't leave. And of course, it was a nightmare world of Cthuloid terror. It was one of those situations where the GM just kind of handed us this situation and sat back to watch how we'd get out of it. He hadn't planned any clues that would lead us to an inobvious "way out"; he didn't KNOW any way out. To get out alive, we would have to surprise him. He did that kind of thing a lot, which was what made his games so much fun, if extremely deadly. By setting it up with about 1 month of gaming before encountering the world from hell, all our characters were working together and had a real "history" together. We even had a couple of love affairs springing up between characters. This really increased the horror factor--watching helplessly as one's romantic interest, whom one has courted for several adventures and shared a memorable picnic with on a lovely, 2-mooned planet, is eaten alive by giant maggots--well, it's a lot more disturbing than when you go into the game expecting that sort of thing. The few survivors barely made it back to the main ship and started limping back to Earth sublight. We had coldsleep capsules, and we calculated out the energy requirements and figured that, allowing for life support, we could popsicle ourselves and make it back to Earth in about 150 years. Nobody'd ever tried to coldsleep for that long, so we had no way of knowing if we'd survive. And of course something got back on board with us, and we had to hunt it down Alien-style. While fun, it was a little cliche. Then we went to bed, and the GM just let it end there. We never knew whether we made it back to Earth or not. He was saving that for the sequel, which to date (about 8 years later) is still to come. Be seeing you, David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:09:12 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Re: Just a small question - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : M-Zodiac 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月22日 7:27 件名 : DG: Re: Just a small question Agent MZodiac wrote: >That was the very short-lived "Dark Skies" which promised much, but IMO >delivered little. >The bad guys were MJ-12. >Used the same source material as DG. (Roswell, Conspiracy Theories, etc.) Well, MJ-12 was kind of the bad guys, and kind of the good guys. That was the main thing I liked about it. There's a couple good bits for DG in there, esp. in the muddled morality issue. But yeah, what a waste that show was, overall. It coulda been so good. I was really bugged by their treatment of some of the historical figures, too, esp. Colin Powell and Carl Sagan. And the lead character--man, I wanted him to get killed in every episode. He wouldn't have lasted a week in one of my campaigns. David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:15:08 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : POOH@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu 宛先 : deltagreen@nocturne.org 日時 : 1998年7月21日 19:21 件名 : Re: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos Will (Lord of Pooh Bears) wrote: >>>One of the best Lovecraftian SciFi movies isn't really space faring, but is a great load of fun... Split Second, with Rutger Hauer. Rutger Hauer is a cop, investigating... Something Nasty. The SAN loss his new partner obviously takes through the movie is a delight...<<< Yes, a very fun, but cheesey, film. The partner is the best (that and the shower scene--grrrr). But the monster was crap--combining Alien with the Zodiac killer? What was the director thinking? David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:19:49 -0400 From: "Walter B. Haight" Subject: Re: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos At 11:05 PM 7/21/98 +0100, you wrote: > >> I have always considered most of the films that John Carpenter has >>done to be heavily Mythos, from the Thing to Big Trouble in Little China. >>Just the feeling of something bigger lurking behind that next shadow, that >>there are things out there that regard humanity as Doritos, and that there >>is ( ultimately ) nothing we can do to stop us from destroying ourselves ( >>and then being gobbled up by the monsters ). Escape From New York even fits >>in well with this, and I liked Escape From L.A. even if no one else did! > > > >well no.......Big Trouble is Carpenters homage to Hong Kong Movies, I doubt >that Lovecraft even occured to him during the whole movie. > >but hey, your entitled to your opinion :-) > >Strange that you didnt mention Prince of Darkness by the way > >Oh and by the way, The Guy who asked about Feng Shui, watch Big Trouble in >Little China..... thats what its like only much, much better :-) > > > Prince of Darkness! Yes!!!!! I didn't think to mmention that, but it's probably the most myhos of all. Yeah, I doubt he was thinking Lovecraft too, but it still could fit, what with the Hidden Evil Waiting To Get You theme. Milk and Cookies Aaron Litz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:02:15 -1000 From: "M-Zodiac" Subject: DG: Re: RE: Re: Just a small question I missed the treatment of historical figures you mentioned. Just out of curiosity, what did they say about Powall and Sagan. Nothing nice, I'd imagine. For all his good points, Sagan intimated he preferred "Scooby Doo" to "X-Files", for their skeptical eye. - -Marc "Know this. Elric cannot have what he desires most. What he desires does not exist. What he desires is dead. All Elric has is sorrow, guilt, malice, hatred. This is all he deserves and all he will ever desire." -Moorcock, "The Vanishing Tower" - -----Original Message----- From: David Farnell To: Delta Green List Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 2:23 PM Subject: DG: RE: Re: Just a small question - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : M-Zodiac 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月22日 7:27 件名 : DG: Re: Just a small question Agent MZodiac wrote: >That was the very short-lived "Dark Skies" which promised much, but IMO >delivered little. >The bad guys were MJ-12. >Used the same source material as DG. (Roswell, Conspiracy Theories, etc.) Well, MJ-12 was kind of the bad guys, and kind of the good guys. That was the main thing I liked about it. There's a couple good bits for DG in there, esp. in the muddled morality issue. But yeah, what a waste that show was, overall. It coulda been so good. I was really bugged by their treatment of some of the historical figures, too, esp. Colin Powell and Carl Sagan. And the lead character--man, I wanted him to get killed in every episode. He wouldn't have lasted a week in one of my campaigns. David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:32:02 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: Re: DG: What the heck? My assumption is that YOA means "years of age" regards sc At 03:18 PM 7/21/98 -0600, you wrote: >I've spent some time looking for answers for my dumb questions - can anyone >answer them? >Both involve material from the Delta Green Sourcebook. > >1) Introduction page vi - what the hell does "If so, then who bells the >cat?" mean ??? >2) page 167 - what the hell does "YOA" mean? > >if anyone knows, please send me an e-mail. > >Thanks > > > > Scott Cleverdon Mercenary of the Occult "just when you think you're being too paranoid, you aren't being nearly paranoid enough..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:38:51 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: DG: Handout stuff and maps for Puppets and Shadow Plays Dear All, If you want a pretty good map of the area for the first scenario in the DG sourcebook, Puppets and Shadow Plays, send a check for $3 to the San Carlos Apache Tribe Recreation and Wildlife Department PO Box 97 San Carlos, AZ 85550 USA. They'll send you a nice big map of the reservation 1 inch=3 miles. Detailed enough to show all the small artificial lake made by ranchers and unfinished dirt tracks you can only get up with a jeep. Also they supply a fair amount of info on game hunting in the area, also the photos give a fair idea of the terrain. Well worth the $3 you pay for it, they're quick too, you'll have it within a couple of weeks. regards Scott Cleverdon Mercenary of the Occult "just when you think you're being too paranoid, you aren't being nearly paranoid enough..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:51:18 -0700 From: Lech Von Oxen Subject: Re: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos Prince of Darkness? What about In The Mouth of Madness -- the most mythos movie in years. Prototypical Lovecraft protagonist: Sam Neill as Insurance Fraud Investigator Stereotypical Lovecraft antagonist: Evil tome and its evil author. Tribute to Lovecraft: Opening scene set in sanitarium. Honestly, despite its weak points (skips character for momentum and assumes a general audience paranoia), it stands in my mind as the best Carpenter film since The Thing, which is, in fact, a brilliant honorary of Lovecraft's lessons: paranoia will destroy us all, but not before the alien shapeshifter thingy gets most of us first. Please, see both movies. Call me Lech. Walter B. Haight wrote: > > > Prince of Darkness! Yes!!!!! I didn't think to mmention that, > but it's probably the most myhos of all. Yeah, I doubt he was thinking > Lovecraft too, but it still could fit, what with the Hidden Evil Waiting To > Get You theme. > > Milk and Cookies > > Aaron Litz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:53:11 -0700 From: Colonel Panic Subject: Re: DG: RE: Nationality, journalism and chain letters. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David Farnell wrote: > Great stuff, that. Also, TUO had an article some time back about a Mythos > computer virus. Don't remember the details, though. But I like the idea of a > virus that slowly but inevitably reconfigures the computer into an alter to > some Old One or another, while simultaneously addicting the user and > corrupting the mind. David, it's been done -- it's called Microsoft Internet Explorer. I had a somewhat similar idea when I first got a fast enough computer to run Fractint (a freeware fractal generator - look up 'fractint' at http://www.inference.com/infind ). The idea of mathematical entities which are essentially infinite fascinates me, but I never got around to writing the actual adventure. Colonel Panic (finger absinthe@teleport.com for PGP Public Key) - - -- How easy it was for us to laugh at their primitive and strange beliefs as we worked diligently in our kitchens painting chicken eggs for a rabbit to deliver in celebration of the resurrection of our Messiah. -- Michael Page - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNbV+IuUtnTgFYhvTEQI5AgCePUwZ3tpqhh/k8DB+C8bD12gm2loAoPfg 3RftWSHmuD7Vtoegfg4kzui0 =7elI - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:17:53 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Re: RE: Re: Just a small question - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : M-Zodiac 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月22日 10:19 件名 : DG: Re: RE: Re: Just a small question MZodiac wrote (re: Dark Skies): >I missed the treatment of historical figures you mentioned. Just out of >curiosity, what did they say about Powall and Sagan. Nothing nice, I'd >imagine. For all his good points, Sagan intimated he preferred "Scooby Doo" >to "X-Files", for their skeptical eye. Powell was a soldier in some episode when they had to go into Russia or something to extract the remnants of Russia's compromised equivalent of MJ-12 (I could have some of this wrong--it's been a while). Anyway, after one encounter with the parasites-in-the-head critters, Powell was saying, "Take me off this, I don't want anything to do with it any more, I don't want to know." Understandable, I guess, but come on--Colin Powell has less balls than the dork lead character?! I mean, I don't know whether I would vote for him if he ran for Prez, but I was annoyed how they made him out to be a bit of a coward. Sagan was also portrayed as a coward--as soon as MJ-12 showed him the info and told him what they'd do to his family if he didn't keep his mouth shut and work for them, he knuckled under without a peep. If Sagan was working for them, then that means he spent his life lying to everyone about alien life just to cover up for MJ-12. In spite of this, I rather liked some of the characterizations. The Hoover had me in hysterics a couple of times. David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: gmgm@netmcr.com (G.M.) Subject: DG: Convergence WAV files Hey out there, back when the DG book came out, the Pagan guys put on AOHell a wav file of what Scott Adams had recorded off of his radio, in both origina and cleaned-up format. I had been holding on to this to spring onto my players, but I lost it in a recent hard drive crash (obviously caused by MJ-12). Does anyone out there have this? GAry m, minor epot aka "Sneezy the Squid" - ------------------------------ "Decadence is it's own reward" DNRC Member since 1995 AOL Instant Message ID& AOL email address: gmgm1970 ICQ ID#: 8391493 ICQ nick: minor epot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:12:26 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: RE: Nationality, journalism and chain letters. >David, it's been done -- it's called Microsoft Internet Explorer. Curious you should mention this in the context of evil viruses and computer mayhem; I'd just read the following article online: http://www.gcn.com/gcn/1998/July13/cov2.htm In a nutshell, the U.S. Navy is testing a so-called "Smart Ships" plan in which two computers running Windows NT deal with ship's navigation, propulsion, and other tasks, allowing the Navy to reduce crew by 10%. The pilot program is on the USS Yorktown. As the link above will show, things aren't quite going according to plan. be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:09:29 +0200 From: "Fabio Zanicotti" Subject: DG: Solidarity with Davide Mana > Boys, you should try and be friendly with my local retailer (owned by > Stratelibri, the only RPG importer in Italy)! > They grant you high prices (no less than +35% over the original tag), slow > and sloppy service, grumpy to downright rude attitude to the > customer and a > bonus sistem that gives you about 60 cents off the next purchase for each > 12$ spent (fractions are rounded down). > Please don't ask for further discounts. > Managers have the right of first choice on all incoming material; which > means that about half of the newly delivered stuff never gets to the > shelves, and that Pagan book you ordered six weeks ago "had to be ordered > again" (and it will cost you the equivalent of about 45 US$). > Books are taken out of their shrink-wrap before going to the shelves, and > are often in very poor shape at the moment of purchase (no discount for > this, sorry); the fact that some have clearly been throug a > photocopier/scanner does not help their state. > To all this you can add "the thrill of the unespected", like ordering Feng > Shui stuff and being presented with Fading Suns supplements. > > > All in all, ordering from the UK or the USA is faster, cheaper (despite > postal charges) and safer. > Davide, have my full solidarity... I live in Milan, and the situation is much the same you describe for Turin. The only shop that stocks an acceptable amount of RPG related material is the local Stratelibri shop (of the AVALON franchise) which presents the same bad attitude you have experimented by yourself. I also have to order books & games from the UK in order to get the latest items at a reasonable price... Adding to this in the last few months I've noticed that Stratelibri have terribly slowed down the rate of new material orders form UK & USA distributors, and what they call "new arrivals" are dated at least three months back... Furthermore, they have stopped months ago to import material from what they think are the "least sellable" gaming line, leaving the fans of the above lines totally deserted (Conspiracy X is one of the victims of this blind policy....). Years ago I wrote some CoC articles for Stratelibri's house organ magazine EXCALIBUR (maybe you have stumbled across them - I was young at the time... I hope you didn't hate them too much - if you happened to read them that is...) and I can assure you that they are really as rude and miser as they seem......: [ It's a pity that such people hold practically the entirety of the Italian gaming market.....:( Just to give vent to my bitterness.... FABIO ZANICOTTI Fabio.Zanicotti@italtel.it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:31:35 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: DG: D. Skies etc > >Well, MJ-12 was kind of the bad guys, and kind of the good guys. That was >the main thing I liked about it. There's a couple good bits for DG in there, >esp. in the muddled morality issue. But yeah, what a waste that show was, >overall. It coulda been so good. I was really bugged by their treatment of >some of the historical figures, too, esp. Colin Powell and Carl Sagan. And >the lead character--man, I wanted him to get killed in every episode. He >wouldn't have lasted a week in one of my campaigns. Quite agree about the muddled morality, that always seemed one of the interesting point sin Cthulu, how many compromises will you make to win. e.g. that scene in DSkies with the hybrid kid when the heroine gives out "You just see a potentially dangerous alien but I see a child." A delightfully caring attitude sure, but given that it is a potentially dangerous alien not very sensible. I took the historical figures as light relief though I am sure they were intended to add veracity and weight. Actually I took the whole series as a laugh. I saw "The Mouth of Madness" recently: clear Lovecraft influences but essentially a load of rubbish, are there any decent Cthulu inspired films/tv? Mark Winkelmann ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:53:25 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: RE: DG: computer viruses You probably know it already but the adventure "Fractal Gods" concerns such amtters its in "The Stars Are Right" which is generally a really good collection of scenarios. Mark Winkelmann >---------- >From: Colonel Panic[SMTP:absinthe@teleport.com] >Sent: 22 July 1998 06:53 >To: Delta Green List >Subject: Re: DG: RE: Nationality, journalism and chain letters. > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > > > >David Farnell wrote: > >> Great stuff, that. Also, TUO had an article some time back about a >Mythos >> computer virus. Don't remember the details, though. But I like the >idea of a >> virus that slowly but inevitably reconfigures the computer into an >alter to >> some Old One or another, while simultaneously addicting the user and >> corrupting the mind. > >David, it's been done -- it's called Microsoft Internet Explorer. > >I had a somewhat similar idea when I first got a fast enough >computer >to run Fractint (a freeware fractal generator - look up >'fractint' at >http://www.inference.com/infind ). The idea of mathematical >entities >which are essentially infinite fascinates me, but I never got >around >to writing the actual adventure. > >Colonel Panic (finger absinthe@teleport.com for PGP Public Key) > >- -- >How easy it was for us to laugh at their primitive and strange >beliefs >as we worked diligently in our kitchens painting chicken eggs for >a >rabbit to deliver in celebration of the resurrection of our >Messiah. > -- Michael Page > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 >Charset: noconv > >iQA/AwUBNbV+IuUtnTgFYhvTEQI5AgCePUwZ3tpqhh/k8DB+C8bD12gm2loAoPfg >3RftWSHmuD7Vtoegfg4kzui0 >=7elI >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:15:25 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Convergence WAV files In a message dated 98-07-22 02:57:16 EDT, you write: << the Pagan guys put on AOHell a wav file of what Scott Adams had recorded off of his radio, in both origina and cleaned-up format. I had been holding on to this to spring onto my players, but I lost it in a recent hard drive crash (obviously caused by MJ-12). Does anyone out there have this? >> It was on AOL for ages, but I've lost it too. (Ref the "Hard Drive Formatting Disaster," mentioned a few days ago). I'd love to get a copy to slap up on my DG site, if Tynes & co. approve. Shane Ivey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:25:09 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos In a message dated 98-07-21 09:49:09 EDT, you write: << And Paul Reiser--who isn't filled with a sense of incomprehensible horror when they see an AT&T commercial? >> So THAT'S why I keep hearing it, over and over, that sepulchar echo from beyond that haunts my dreams: "One Rate... One Rate... One Rate..." That's it. I'm making my wife throw that new Babyhood book away. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:38:47 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Nationality, journalism and chain letters. SPOILERS: Mar's Players Bug Off! ;-) SPOILERS: Mar's Players Bug Off! ;-) SPOILERS: Mar's Players Bug Off! ;-) In a message dated 98-07-21 14:59:50 EDT, you write: << What if there was this cult-ridden chain letter that sent each of its recepients some kind of horrible curse that could only be countered by sending ten copies of the letter (all of which with the course, obviously) to other people? Maybe it wouldn't be a curse, but some kind of dangerous info or some mythos knowledge. Any ideas? >> Well, I'm kind of partial to Senor Sock, myself (see Y.GOLO.NET on my site). The tricky thing about this idea, IMO, will be allowing a way "out" of the doom while retaining the sense of nihilistic inevitability. In Call of Cthulhu, salvation should be illusory at worst, transitory at best, and to heck with Elder Signs. :-) Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:42:05 EDT From: CroakerJr@aol.com Subject: DG: New Age ALPHONSE, Be advised that the transcripts from Operation NEW AGE have been installed online for review. Pass the word to those who have clearance for the material. Be seeing you. Shane http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/newage.htm +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Agent Newcastle : Cuff Him! Pagan Pub : There are shards all over the floor. Several dozen are embedded in [REDACTED], or rather are embedded in the glowing field of energy that covers his body like an aura. Agent Newcastle : Don't cuff him! Pagan Pub : LOL! +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jul 1998 14:00:18 BST From: ITDCJB@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk Subject: DG: Jammyness Re: cases of jammyness We had a case of this last night. Beneath a house we'd found the secret corridor and were about to enter when we heard footsteps. Our rather trigger happy professor let of his machine gun through the door to frighten the guards - well he's never used a m/gun before and he's firing through a door so the GM gives him five rolls at 5%. The prof rolled 01, 11, 04, 04 and 08. Two minutes later he did the same trick - but this time he injured the kid we were meant to be rescuing... _________ Animation, Bar Conversation, /__ __/ /__ Anticipation, Disinclination. __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ "Soho (Needless to say)", Al Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:43:58 -0400 From: "John C. Detwiler" Subject: Re: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos Message text written by Delta Green List >I myself called Alien:Ressurection a " parade of grostequeries " after I saw it. It had no soul, it was just there to make you flinch ( when that alien thing got sucked through a pinhole in the hull WHY did it have to scream like a baby!? It nearly gave me nightmares, and THAT is no small task)< I believe the film-makers were trying to get us to feel sympathy for the creature because it was partly human. I found this to be pathetic. If a "true" human had done the things that the hybrid had done I would still have no sympathy for it. >I have always considered most of the films that John Carpenter has done to be heavily Mythos, from the Thing to Big Trouble in Little China. Just the feeling of something bigger lurking behind that next shadow, that there are things out there that regard humanity as Doritos, and that there is ( ultimately ) nothing we can do to stop us from destroying ourselves ( and then being gobbled up by the monsters ). Escape From New York even fits in well with this, and I liked Escape From L.A. even if no one else did!< Always nice to meet a fellow Carpenter fan. Nobody ever seems to give him enough credit. - --John the Bastard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:54:20 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Re: Just a small question > From: M-Zodiac > To: Delta Green List > Subject: DG: Re: Just a small question > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:10:49 -1000 > Reply-to: Delta Green List > That was the very short-lived "Dark Skies" which promised much, but IMO > delivered little. > The bad guys were MJ-12. > Used the same source material as DG. (Roswell, Conspiracy Theories, etc.) > > -Marc > Hello, I thought that MJ-12 were the 'good' guys in this series, it started out with John someone investigating them for a US Senator, then him joining them with his girlfriend. Then they were both sickened by what was done in the name of the US government that they went on the run trying to expose the conspiracy. In the end she was taken by the hive and he was helping Majestic again in order to try to get her back. The best thing about the entire series was casting JT Walsh as the Captain in charge of MJ-12 but they killed him in the last episode anyway, or did they ;-) there were some really great episodes and I loved the idea of the series having a timeline right back to the stoneage and supposedly finishing in 1999 on new years eve. There was an effort to try and save the series but as one of the main characters is now playing 7/9 in ST Voyager it looks unlikely. pity Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:56:11 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Just a small question David Farnell wrote: > > But life forms with a generally humanoid shape are certainly possible, > perhaps even a bit more likely than a number of other shapes. I mean, we > have proof that this shape works, since we're doing reasonably well with it. > It allows us to see over objects, frees up our hands, puts our main senses > up high, protects our most vital parts with bone--it's OK. Those scientists > in the DG book who say the Grays are too humanoid are wrong--the problem is > not that, but that they are too simple. > > Oh, and thanks for the info about Liber Ka. > > Be seeing you, > David Farnell Begin Rant... Actually, the human form is inefficient, slow, fragile and the only reason we evolved into it because our environment forced us to have it. I'm sorry to write about this on the list, but this is one of my personal bitches. The first and formost reason that humanity has an upright posture has nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with tools or point of view, and everything to do with locomotion. In Africa, at about the time when the first creatures identifiable as humanoid began to come out of the woodwork, it was during a drout. You see, "man" lived in the trees, but the trees, our only sources of food, were dying out, except for patches of forest that existed far away from one another. So humanity had to walk all of that distance, and it couldn't do so without it's posture changing dramatically. More important than bipedalism for the use of tools would be grip strength in the hands, which also increased at about this time (to help give weak humanity an edge over the many predators which were uniquely adapted to their environment). BTW many of our vital parts are not protected by bone, at least not any more so than any other mammal or most other animals. What about the arteries? Also, our bone protection is rarely more efficient than an insect's exoskeleton. All I am basically saying is that humanity evolved in a certain way becaus of certain circumstances. Very specific circumstances. Even our intelligence formed out of necessity to be able to out-think rather than out-run or out-fight our competitors for resources. I am not saying that there *could* not be a humanoid race out there. I am merely saying that it would be more unlikely that you suppose simply because of the vast number of variables involved. Don't even get me started on "intelligent life":) BTW - I am completely in agreement with you about Lovecraft's creativity with regard to the creation of his alien entities. It is rather surpristing when you consider his tame background. -Randall L. Orndorff - -- Eat the Rich. The Poor are Tough and Stringy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:01:28 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: Babylon 5/Lovecraft Mythos Lech Von Oxen wrote: > > Prince of Darkness? > > What about In The Mouth of Madness -- the most mythos movie in years. > > Prototypical Lovecraft protagonist: Sam Neill as Insurance Fraud > Investigator > > Stereotypical Lovecraft antagonist: Evil tome and its evil author. > > Tribute to Lovecraft: Opening scene set in sanitarium. > > Honestly, despite its weak points (skips character for momentum and > assumes a general audience paranoia), it stands in my mind as the best > Carpenter film since The Thing, which is, in fact, a brilliant honorary > of Lovecraft's lessons: paranoia will destroy us all, but not before the > alien shapeshifter thingy gets most of us first. > > Please, see both movies. > > Call me Lech. > Damn straight, not to mention the fact that the author in "In The Mouth of Madness" creates his own "mythos" to set his stories in. Randall L.Orndorff - -- Eat the Rich. The Poor are Tough and Stringy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:03:22 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Nationality, journalism and chain letters. > David, it's been done -- it's called Microsoft Internet Explorer. > > I had a somewhat similar idea when I first got a fast enough > computer > to run Fractint (a freeware fractal generator - look up > 'fractint' at > http://www.inference.com/infind ). The idea of mathematical > entities > which are essentially infinite fascinates me, but I never got > around > to writing the actual adventure. > > Colonel Panic (finger absinthe@teleport.com for PGP Public Key) > Check out the fractal Yog-Sogoth in Ye Book of Monstres (volume two, I think) --Randall L. Orndorff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:38:52 +0900 From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko Noyes) Subject: Re: DG: D. Skies etc >a laugh. I saw "The Mouth of Madness" recently: clear Lovecraft >influences but essentially a load of rubbish, are there any decent >Cthulu inspired films/tv? Check out "The Resurrected", based on "The xxxx Case of Charles Dexter Ward" (I can't remember the exact title offhand). It's the closest movie representation fo a Mythos investigation I've ever scene. 90% of the movie is research, the rest is "Scream...Bang! Bang! ohshit... scream... gurgle." The scene in which there investigating the cellar with flashlights is particularly effective. Check it out. Jay - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum Terry Pratchett, "Interesting Times" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:44:18 -0700 From: John Michael Alldredge Subject: Re: DG: What the heck? At 03:18 PM 7/21/98 -0600, you wrote: >I've spent some time looking for answers for my dumb questions - can anyone >answer them? >Both involve material from the Delta Green Sourcebook. > >1) Introduction page vi - what the hell does "If so, then who bells the >cat?" mean ??? ******This refers to an old fairytale/fable/homily in which a bunch of mice, fed up with the depredations of the local cat, decide that the thing to do is to hang a bell around its neck so the jingling will give early warning... the plan was abandoned when one mouse asked the obvious question: "Who bells the cat?"******** >2) page 167 - what the hell does "YOA" mean? ******Years Of Age******** > >if anyone knows, please send me an e-mail. > >Thanks > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:46:36 -0700 From: John Michael Alldredge Subject: Re: DG: Just a small question At 12:01 AM 7/22/98 +0200, you wrote: >(Spoilers ahead) >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V >V > >The adventure in the sourcebook with Groth reminded me somehow of a series that >was on TV some years ago: >The "heroes" were a man and a woman and there was that govt. organisation called >"Majestic", also there was that hivetheory and the aliens did the same as in this >adventure >Now, does anyone remember the name of this series?? *********Dark Skies************ > >Thanks >Florian Hanke > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:50:44 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: Alien insects (was: Just a small question) Oh, well... Teaches me to go to the university to study those silly Appennine sequences instead of staying at home checking the mail! First, I was about to post something about Dark Skies (that's currently being broadcast here in Italy), but you guys covered the subject perfectly. And you're right, David: the main character is a dork if I ever saw one. Then, I found rathers stimulating the thread about "what do the aliens look like", but Randall L. Orndorff (among others) covered much of what I was goin to say anyway. However, here's just a pair of further details... [background turbine-like whine as Paleontologist background kicks in] Chance plays a significative part in evolution. Probably more than we'd like. This means that we have to leeave behind our humanocentric attitude (like HPL did when he wrote his stories, btw) and look at the whole biz in a dispassionate, scientific way. A "successfull" species is the one that is best at negotiating both case and necessity, making the best of what it's got. If you survive and reproduce, you're a certified success by evolutionary standards - all the rest is accessory. In this way the human structure is pretty efficient. It's not the only one and it's not the best. But we can't all afford a Ferrari, and an old VW bug can take us there all the same. Now, about simulations. Currently a lot of work is being done in this sense, chiefly thanks to the progress made in the last years with the computing power/price couple. But, much as I love them, computer simulations of natural systems are _hard_ nonetheless. As I said, chance plays a really important part in natural processes, so in your simulation you'll have to randomly determine the moment of the random event, the import and the nature of the same, and then you'll need to compute the effect on all the involved variables (and they are an awfull lot). Covering all bases is really hard. Where does this leave us? Given a set of starting conditions, if your simulation is _really_ good, and it really duplicates the chancy biz of growing up as a species in the natural world, you should end up with a different critter every time. Maybe not radically different, but different nonetheless. The chances of the same being showing up twice should be pretty low. And the chance of randomly generating the evolution of man as we know it are close to 0. Bleak? Yeah, but what often is lost to the large public is, these simulations are worth close to nothing as a predictive tool, and they are not used as such. Their chief application is as models to better understand the natural phenomena we simulate. So results should be taken with more than a grain of salt. As for the dominance of insectoid critters in this kind of experiments/projections, the reasons can be various. Insects are the largest animal group in our world, after all, so the starting parameters in the simulation might be biased in this sense. Their structure is also easier to simulate than a more complex being (they are made of less "building blocks"). And they are pretty efficient. Also - and sorry if this sounds cynical - they certainly look alien and creepy, and so are considered better for a TV broadcast than, let's say, salmon-like alien life forms. The guy that decides what goes on air prefers to show you something spectacular. And this is more or less the end of this rambling. I leave with a single Mythos thought: now, if all simulations, independently of platform, operators, software and starting parameters, should _all_ end up always giving as ideal evolutionary result something like the Mi-Go... That would be sinister. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy docotr.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #77 *******************************