From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #84 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Tuesday, July 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 084 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:15:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Glovecleaners in Oklahoma On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 MgkellyMP5@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of terrorists, I had an idea about a group of Egyptian terrorists > under the influence of Nyarlathotep (Sounds like the Karotechia. I know, but > these guys aren't just sitting around a villa in Argentina). Has anyone used > terrorists in their DG campaign or have a suggestion as to what prominent > historical figure Nyarlathotep would appear as to a Muslim? True Islam teaches > peace and tolerance, so Mohammed is out, but I am lacking in knowledge of > other historical Middle Eastern leaders. Uhm, the fifth imam, the one that is the root of the Sunni/Shiite split; Saladin; Ruholla Khomeni (Shiite only, I think). Hell, bring in The Old Man Of The Mountain - Nyarli-babi can surely do better than hashish hallucinations, yes? Once upon a time in the late THE WILD HUNT apa'zine, one fellow was discussing a historical '20s scenario, involving British Intelligence, Irem, and the then-current political leadership of the Arabian peninsula. The original Sa'udi leader, the two Hussein brothers who ended up in Jordan and Syria... 'twas Mark M Kellner, DICIN' SPHERE #9, for TWH 132. (if I can find the other pages, I'll do a better precis; of course, I'd *love* to have contact info and permission to reprint... even better, I'd love to have [or have access to] a complete TWH collection.) Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 23:47:01 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes Lech Von Oxen wrote: > > Hi all, > (Crowd screams: Hi Lech!) Hi Lech! Love the Red Queen... keep 'em coming! > 1. Any particular means to keeping players committed (aside from > blackmail, of course)? I just started Pagan's Walker in the Wastes to > have half my players uncommit. It really pissed me off, as I had done > some pretty extensive preparations. Regardless, anyone got any clues to > keep the plebes we call players from ditching on four Fridays in a row? I had a problem like this in my last campaign (side note: it was RQ. not CoC, but it involved mythos elements). Basically, every encounter they avoided later came back to haunt them. Fail to investigate that mysterious house by the river? Your sister winds up dying there. Don't finish off the evil cultists? Next year they take over the town. Abandon the stranger you were travelling with when something takes him off your boat? He winds up in the clutches of serpent men trying to raise a GOO from it's slumber... as their High Priest! After awhile, they get the hint... or everything they've ever loved winds up corrupted or gone. Only one of my players has any clue whatsoever as to what the mythos is, and he's usually wrong about what the party is facing. Managed to keep him thinking that Serpent Men were something else for weeks, and the rest of my group just quakes in fear anytime he even hints that it's something from the mythos. Me, I just smile, and say that sometimes, weird footprints are just regular prints distorted by the rain... - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:44:53 -0700 From: "JimmieBise,Jr" Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes >Lech Von Oxen wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> (Crowd screams: Hi Lech!) > >Hi Lech! Love the Red Queen... keep 'em coming! Hear! Hear! More Red Queen!! As for dealing with "ditchmeisters", make sure that their presence, or absence, has repercussions. I have this problem also in my group, thought they're all good enough to let us know when they will and won't be in town and such. Folks call ahead to the Great Gaming Commune beforehand to let everyone know if there will be an unscheduled absence, and, in that case, we do something else. Then again, my group is blessed with at least three good Keepers that can run just about anything. Second thing...keeping the bogeymen out of the sunlight of the players' minds... This one is a bit easier. In my experience, I've found that the one good clue should be completely surrounded with other more mundane things that look really, really good. Keep them off balance and don't be afraid to toss in some real surprises, even improvisationally. Think they've got your X-Files NPC locked in their minds? Hah! Change him or her up..give them another angle and keep them guessing. Remember the "Paranoia" RPG...Fear and Surprise...Surprise and Fear..:-) They'll love you for it..really..:-) - -Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:04:43 -0700 From: Lech Von Oxen Subject: DG: More craziness... Hi, again. I was watching Force 10 From Navarone, with Harrison Ford and Robert Shaw (don't forget Carl Weathers -- we love you Apollo!), and was reminded of a campaign idea I once had for Cyberpunk 2020. I think it could be well-adapted to DG. Three characters -- in CP 2020 a solo, netrunner, and media -- are blackmailed/bribed/otherwise coerced into working for an unnamed entity. Their duties include tracking down paranormal and occult occurences and recording them for a private collection. Think of the really wealthy guy in Contact who funds a second space ship and lives in consistent altitude in his jet; an eccentric who does not fear the unexplained and in fact searches for a clue to the afterlife. In DG, a covert operations group (essentially a three-member cell) could find themselves under the thumb of a mysterious benefactor who, through keeping them alive (by some means, perhaps Vietnam veterans implanted with some tracking/suicide device?), gets to send them to infiltrate cults and bring back ancient artifacts and tomes. These guys (tough guy, techie, and scientist for me -- pick your own lot) get to run covert, government-sanctioned assaults on poor, unsuspecting cultists, quietly sneaking in and stealing their copy of Cultes de Ghoules while the innocent worshipers orgy in the feast of Shub-Niggurath. Or take it a step further and run it as a renegade DG cell, who is actively sabotaging both DG and MJ12 operations in hopes of drawing the organizations into exposing themselves. Think: using Glovecleaners to desiminate Mythos chaos into the public, forcing DG to appear, bringing in MJ12, then offing both teams in a double-cross-over-patchwork. Hell, just get the players to believe they're the good guys... Call me Lech. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:56:43 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes Hello Fellow conspiritors. I'm going to address your first point, because I think its something we've all experienced: players with other commitments. Its so very hard to find good dedicated players. I know, I've spent several years at a time not refereeing because I couldn't find a group I could not only trust to be there on a weekly basis but would get along with each other. I think the most important thing is to establish a specific night of the week to play, same time, same place and let it be known that this is day has been made possible with no little sacrifice to yourself. The other thing is to start early, because you'll always run late. Get all the social stuff out the way. Don't let players leave with the only copy of note/handouts/character sheets. Trust you me, that way lies madness and death (both different sides of the same coin as we all know). There is an odd chemistry there needs to be between players. They need to be garrulous enough to be open and be unafraid of looking stupid but not so entirely comfortable that they never get anything done. Also, hide any video game consoles before the evening starts. Realise, that unless they themselves have refereed, they will never know the thought, care and preparation that goes into the running of a game such as CoC. If you don't feel comfortable calling someone a bastard to their face for not turning up, you shouldn't probably be playing with them in the first place. Your Queen in Red stuff is great by the way. Can't wait for the next installment... regards scott cleverdon At 07:13 PM 7/27/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all, > >(Crowd screams: Hi Lech!) > >Anyway. > >Couple questions for you nutters: > >1. Any particular means to keeping players committed (aside from >blackmail, of course)? I just started Pagan's Walker in the Wastes to >have half my players uncommit. It really pissed me off, as I had done >some pretty extensive preparations. Regardless, anyone got any clues to >keep the plebes we call players from ditching on four Fridays in a row? > >2. And speaking of players, I am continually baffled by the postings by >Keepers that warn their players away from certain messages with fear of >eternal pain in the bowels of Hell. I wouldn't let my players ten feet >from this list, or the DG book, or even the episode of the X-Files where >I got my idea for my favorite NPC. Only one of my players has a clue >that Pagan even has a book called Delta Green, and the rest just think >CoC is a role-playing game -- no one actually knows what I do here alone >in preparing for the campaign (hehehehehehe...). Question, then: when >players know about the Mythos already, but are attempting to play >ignorant characters, are there any special preparations Keepers make to >keep their characters ignorant of their players' knowledge. Sure, good >players can make the distinction, but truly good players are as hard to >find as truly good keepers. > >3. After watching Fargo, again, last night (and having spent the last >six months reading Walker in the Wastes fowards and backwards), I >pondered the similarities between Paul Bunyan and Ithaqua ... I mean, >c'man, let's talk about Ethnocentrism at its greatest feat: Americans >take traditional Inuit (Aztec, Japanese, etc.) Wind God and say, "But >will the kids like it?" Suddenly there's a big axe instead of webbed >foot prints, and a big blue ox (Babe) for the PG-13 appeal. I'm sure an >upper-level Disney executive will one day fall into the cult's hands, >and the new movie will feature Paul Bunyan being released from >imprisonment by his happy, little dwarf-helpers. Anyone else made this >connection? > >OK, I'm going to leave before I hurt myself. > >Call me Lech. > > Scott Cleverdon Mercenary of the Occult "just when you think you're being too paranoid, you aren't being nearly paranoid enough..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:09:24 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: DG: RE: RE: Encyclopedia Cthulhiana My view on this kinda thing is to steer clear of it. I was just rereading some August Derleth over the weekend and the way he cites HP Lovecraft beside the Necronimicon, Pnakotic Manuscripts etc seems a bit rubbish. This is hidden lore, you aren't meant to get it down the nearest Barnes & Noble. If players do look up HP Lovecraft in my game its just harmless scifi/horror. I can credit the idea of his work (if used in games)being inspired by real things but it is thoroughly emasculated compared to the true mind blowing horror of something like the Revelations of Glakki. I thought the point of these tomes is that they reek of something genuinely wrong with the world. If you think its fiction then it isn't truly horrifying. Of course if you later discover its real, THAT might be worth a few points. Still it is an amusingly post modern approach to gaming and there isn't anything wrong with that kind of thing, just not to my taste. The other possibility is that if the players want to believe thats fine, I am a firm believer in misinformation and given how much info is available in the world today the players should get leads which look promising and are just some harmless loonies wibblings. Mark Winkelmann >---------- >From: Christian Conkle[SMTP:ConkleC@nwrel.org] >Sent: 27 July 1998 22:20 >To: 'Delta Green List' >Subject: DG: RE: Encyclopedia Cthulhiana > >On a similar note to this, I had the idea for a scenario called "The Game" >in which a number of unrelated teenagers around the country are all involved >in similar suicide cults. Their only connection is that they all played a >game called "The Return of the Old Ones" written by S.Petersen, also >responsible for books like S.Petersen's Field Guide to Mythos Monsters and >Dreamlands as well as many award-winning game products. The players all >dressed up in robes and lit candles and acted the parts of investigators >into the unknown, making sure to play up the "Mazes and Monsters" perception >of gaming by the public. Eventually, the players become to involved in the >game and ignore homework and friends and decide to start their own >cults/covens (each with contacts to the Fate or something, usually hot women >dressed in tight leather pants who teach them "real spells" when they reach >"eighth level", etc.). Maybe even have a few game sessions turn out to be >"Summon Dimensional Shambler" spells in disguise complete with tennis >raquets, candles, and bare feet. > >The Agents could then use the books published by S.Petersen's Chaos Games as >handbooks, losing SAN for learning it's secrets, and even more when they >find out what's true and what's not! S. Petersen could then be introduced as >an informant/guide to the Mythos. The possibilities are endless! > >----------------------------------------------------- >Christian Conkle >Web Development Specialist >Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory > >work: conklec@nwrel.org >home: conkle@europa.com >----------------------------------------------------- > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christopher D. Nichols [SMTP:chrisnicls@hotmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 1:17 PM >> To: deltagreen@nocturne.org >> Subject: DG: Encyclopedia Cthulhiana >> >> In Daniel Harms' book _Encyclopedia Cthulhiana_, he writes the >> following: >> >> "If you wish to have this volume available as a resource for >> >> . investigators in your game, suggested values are Sanity loss 1d6/. >> >> 2d6, Cthulhu Mythos +8%, Occult +1%, spell multiplier x1, 6 . >> weeks." >> >> Now as Delta Green is set in the real world, or at least the Call of >> Cthulhu version of such, it is not unreasonable that Encyclopedia >> Cthulhiana is not the only Mythos related piece of fiction or gaming >> material that might turn up in a game. >> >> Given this, what would the stats of the various books we use be? >> Further, how does Delta Green react to publishers like Chaosium, Pagan >> Publishing, Triad, Arkham House and Necronomicon Books, amung others? >> >> Chris Nichols >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:15:58 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:13:46 -0700 > From: Lech Von Oxen > To: Delta Green List > Subject: DG: Freaking the Mundanes > Reply-to: Delta Green List > Hi all, > > (Crowd screams: Hi Lech!) > > Anyway. > > Couple questions for you nutters: > > 1. Any particular means to keeping players committed (aside from > blackmail, of course)? I just started Pagan's Walker in the Wastes to > have half my players uncommit. It really pissed me off, as I had done > some pretty extensive preparations. Regardless, anyone got any clues to > keep the plebes we call players from ditching on four Fridays in a row? > How old are your players? If you expect them to stay in on a Friday night you may be asking a little bit too much;-) Rob J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:37:22 -0400 From: "Eric Brennan" Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes - -----Original Message----- From: JimmieBise,Jr To: Delta Green List Date: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 12:45 AM Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes >Second thing...keeping the bogeymen out of the sunlight of the players' >minds... > >This one is a bit easier. In my experience, I've found that the one good >clue should be completely surrounded with other more mundane things that >look really, really good. Keep them off balance and don't be afraid to toss >in some real surprises, even improvisationally. Think they've got your >X-Files NPC locked in their minds? Hah! Change him or her up..give them >another angle and keep them guessing. > >-Jim The only threat to our games is other players. A GM can have the most enigmatic, cool NPC in the world, but all it takes is one guy with a short fuse to cut him loose from this mortal coil. Jim, do you remember Strake? So arcane even he doesn't know what he's doing, and then Rudy get's tired of dealing with anybody even remotely complex and *bang*!! Fear and Surprise are nice, but a Kevlar Vest is better. Sadly, Agent WALLACE aka Eric Brennan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:40:31 -0400 From: "Eric Brennan" Subject: DG: Re: RE: RE: Encyclopedia Cthulhiana - -----Original Message----- From: Winkelman, Mark To: 'Delta Green List' Date: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 5:48 AM Subject: DG: RE: RE: Encyclopedia Cthulhiana >My view on this kinda thing is to steer clear of it. I was just >rereading some August Derleth over the weekend and the way he cites HP >Lovecraft beside the Necronimicon, Pnakotic Manuscripts etc seems a bit >rubbish. This is hidden lore, you aren't meant to get it down the >nearest Barnes & Noble. If players do look up HP Lovecraft in my game >its just harmless scifi/horror. > >I can credit the idea of his work (if used in games)being inspired by >real things but it is thoroughly emasculated compared to the true mind >blowing horror of something like the Revelations of Glakki. > >Mark Winkelmann On a similar note, the Wildcards novels took that tact in the second book, way back when the Tantric sorceror Fortunato was part of the series. He said that HP Lovecraft's father was a Scottish Rite Mason, and that's where he bastardized his mythos from, i.e. stuff he saw on his father's bookshelf. Be Seeing You, Agent WALLACE aka Eric Brennan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:41:48 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: DG: A Forgotten Horror One and all: This evening, I was casting my rather brittle mind back upon the events of recent years and it occurred to me just what was the biggest change in our world in the last decade: the near-evaporation of the threat of nuclear war. I wonder to what extent that very palpable threat existed within the minds of the younger members of this list. For the better part of forty years, most everyone on the planet went to bed each night and arose each morning with the question, "Is this the day when it will all end?" This came to mind because I've been re-watching a 1985 film, WHEN THE WIND BLOWS. The film presents a retired, somewhat naive couple in rural Britain at the onset of a nuclear war. Despite helpful pamphlets from the local council and the national government, they find themselves ill-prepared to deal with the realities of nuclear conflict's terrible aftermath. The awful dichotomy between the way things are supposed to be ("Paint your windows white to ward off the effects of the blast.") and the way things are ("Surely something that you can't see and can't smell and can't feel can't really hurt you?") is horrific. It calls to mind a short story by Ann Beattie, "When it Comes," in which a housewife in a small town daydreams of the war to come as she does her dishes--thoughts of her husband climbing into a panel truck with the other men of the town to go man the stockades, and not returning; the wearying inevitability of strangers with dogs occupying the farm and eyeing the straps of her dress. It's curious, really, that the likes of the present angel craze and the epidemic of cults and militias is credited to "pre-millennial tension," and not to the thick sedimentary layers of nuclear fear that came to settle in the collective unconscious in the last several decades. Case Officers seeking ways to properly inculcate a proper atmosphere of fear and loathing in the minds of their subjects would do well to look back at our swiftly forgotten apocalyptic dread for inspiration. "Oh, look, dearie--funny spots on my legs. Is it because of the bomb?" "Why I'm sure that's just varicose veins, my dear." be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:15:53 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes > (snipping galore) > 3. After watching Fargo, again, last night (and having spent the last > six months reading Walker in the Wastes fowards and backwards), I > pondered the similarities between Paul Bunyan and Ithaqua ... I mean, > c'man, let's talk about Ethnocentrism at its greatest feat: Americans > take traditional Inuit (Aztec, Japanese, etc.) Wind God and say, "But > will the kids like it?" Suddenly there's a big axe instead of webbed > foot prints, and a big blue ox (Babe) for the PG-13 appeal. I'm sure an > upper-level Disney executive will one day fall into the cult's hands, > and the new movie will feature Paul Bunyan being released from > imprisonment by his happy, little dwarf-helpers. Anyone else made this > connection? > > OK, I'm going to leave before I hurt myself. > > Call me Lech. Babe the Blue Gnoph-Keh? Hmm...:) -Randall L. Orndorff - -- Eat the Rich. The Poor are Tough and Stringy. BTW--I have already played part of Walker in the Wastes and our GM ditched out on us right after the introduction... Annoyed the hell out of me as I was having a whole hell of a lot of fun playing an ultra skeptic who spent a great deal of his time trying to convince everybody that Gnoph-Keh were just a new species of bear. Albeit one with six legs and a horn. Anyway, Walker looks like a bitch to pull off ( as a GM, but it also looks like a lot of fun if you do. Good Luck! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:39:02 -0500 From: "Matt C" Subject: DG: Re: A Forgotten Horror >This evening, I was casting my rather brittle mind back upon the events >of recent years and it occurred to me just what was the biggest change in >our world in the last decade: the near-evaporation of the threat of >nuclear war. While the possibility of full scale nuclear war like the kind that would have been seen in the 50s-80s has dried up, it is still interesting to note that both the United States and the Soviet Republics have warheads missing. And that the Chinese have conducted nuclear testing as recently as a few years ago. Not to mention the recent Pakistani/India events. The world is in no way safe from nuclear weaponry, just the scale of the potential destruction has changed. An intersting DG track could be terrorists or cultists with a nuclear weapon for purposes of extorition or some other occult use. Matt C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:44:55 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror Uncle Joe wrote: >This came to mind because I've been re-watching a 1985 film, WHEN THE >WIND BLOWS. The film presents a retired, somewhat naive couple in rural >Britain at the onset of a nuclear war. Despite helpful pamphlets from the >local council and the national government, they find themselves >ill-prepared to deal with the realities of nuclear conflict's terrible >aftermath. Another (arguably more powerful) treatment of the same situation was presented in a BBC drama (from 1982 IIRC) called "Threads" which as I recall concentrated on the breakdown of society following a nuclear exchange. The one abiding memory I had of that was the vision of a Traffic Warden carrying a machine gun (disturbing enough) with huge blisters on his face (radiation sickness) standing guard over a supermarket to prevent looting. I never felt the same about playing Twilight 2000 after that. >Case Officers seeking ways to properly inculcate a proper atmosphere of >fear and loathing in the minds of their subjects would do well to look >back at our swiftly forgotten apocalyptic dread for inspiration. Along a slightly different vein (no pun intended), the movie "And the band played on" about the early years of the AIDS epidemic, and the beaurocratic and institutional inertia that undoubtedly cost lives, coupled with the scientific infighting about what the cause was, is another one which shows just how inadequate modern society is at dealing with subtle (or not so subtle) threats to the population. Could it be that, at times, the system just isn't worth saving? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:42:31 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: DG: Re: Re: A Forgotten Horror > >This evening, I was casting my rather brittle mind back upon the events > >of recent years and it occurred to me just what was the biggest change in > >our world in the last decade: the near-evaporation of the threat of > >nuclear war. Well, the U.S. is out of immediate danger from a direct nuclear exchange at least for the forseeable future. However, the implications of a nuke exchange in the indian theater of operations would have a significant impact on our economy, as well as the Far East's...it would cause economic chaos for everyone...hmmm......lost jobs, uncertain futures, economy already shaky sufferes total collapse...even the communists are having severe troubles....perfect setting for a DG op.... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:45:32 +0000 From: "John P. Yuda" Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror > I wonder to what extent that very palpable threat existed within the > minds of the younger members of this list. For the better part of forty > years, most everyone on the planet went to bed each night and arose each > morning with the question, "Is this the day when it will all end?" To be honest, at age 20 here, I never really had any such fears until the recent India-Pakistan situation. Granted, I grew up being taught that the soviets were the root of all evil and such, but I guess I was still too young to realize the potentially dire end of the cold war when it was still a threat back in the 80s. I do suggest, though, for some good listening on topic, the Sting song "Russians" from his album The Dream of the Blue Turtles. Yuda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:07:49 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Joseph Ellis Subject: DG: A Forgotten Horror Lo, Funny, this should come up, I was just having a drink the other night with a friend who was telling me about a recent series on television discussing nuclear, chemical and germ warfare. Anyway he told me that the Russians had developed a back pack nuke, that is an nuclear bomb small enough to fit inside a briefcase or rucksack. More than this, they had built 80 of them prior to the fall of the USSR. However, a recent investigation by General Lebed, while he was still security minister revealed that the Red Army could only find 47 f them. Shortly therafter he was fired from his job. As I say, I didnt see the programme so I cant vouch for its accuracy, but even the possibility that terrorists or fanatics have a small, and undetectable nuke worries me. Especially with the IRA feeling desperate and marginalised in N.Ireland. And anything that makes me shudder in real life is perfect to put into DG. SJE "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!" -Monty Python On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Matt C wrote: > > While the possibility of full scale nuclear war like the kind that would > have been seen in the 50s-80s has dried up, it is still interesting to note > that both the United States and the Soviet Republics have warheads missing. > And that the Chinese have conducted nuclear testing as recently as a few > years ago. Not to mention the recent Pakistani/India events. The world is in > no way safe from nuclear weaponry, just the scale of the potential > destruction has changed. An intersting DG track could be terrorists or > cultists with a nuclear weapon for purposes of extorition or some other > occult use. > > Matt C. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:44:57 PDT From: "Mar Calpena" Subject: DG: Answers Lech Von Oxen wrote: <1. Any particular means to keeping players committed (aside from Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror Another 20 YOA one here, and growing up in the 80's and in NYC no less, nuclear war seemed a very distant and unlikely possbility. The first time I remember seeing the nuclear threat delt with was in Wargames, with Mathew Broderick. (As a minor side note, I now live in a house on 10th street right next to an NYU dorm, in a house with a gorilla suit in the window. Perhaps some of you locals have seen it. Anyway, I heard many stories from the NYU kids telling me who lives here, the most notable of which was MB. They looked so saddened to find out that it was just my father's girlfriend.) When I did think about it, I had the impression that no one could win or even survive a nuclear war /and/ that everyone knew it. My mother, OTOH, used to tell me about the ways the nuclear threat was forced into their minds. Every night, when the networks would go off the air, they would run a clip of a mushroom cloud rising. It scared the shit out of her. She remembered the drills, too. "Duck and cover, kids. Duck and cover." My generation was raised in the full tilt of the coked up hollywood need to amuse and I found the communist threat the source of humorous situations (ala _Spies_Like_Us_) and the rest was seen mainly communication problems, no that the reds were our antithesis. (The may have been "wrong," but it wasn't their fault; their subsequent generations only inheirited the situation, just like I did.) Of course, that is a mass expression of psychological tendancies, namely to deal with a problem by turning into a joke and/or treating it as if it were smaller then it is. That may have been what my parents generation was doing, but I was raised to see it that way. To us, the nuclear threat was old news and didn't have the impact of novelty that it had the generation before mine. Regards, >>> R. Menzi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:05:43 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: RE: DG: A Forgotten Horror >I do suggest, though, for some good listening on topic, the Sting >song "Russians" from his album The Dream of the Blue Turtles. Yakky, nice man but hate that music. Much of the angst I had in the 80's was caused by the poor quality of mainstream music such as that particular piece of tripe. And is listening to pop songs really a good source of political commentary? At least Billy Bragg might be a bit better. And on a related topic does anyone use background music for atmosphere when gaming. I do and as GM strictly enforce whats played. Often starting with something contemporary that you might hear on the radio or walking down the street when things start off and then get progressively weirder and more unpleasant. I also use very different music for the Dreamlands sequences (Terry Riley especially). A useful source is that I also do reviews for an experimental music magazine which a friend in the UK runs and some of the stuff he has sent me is suitable, often very atmospheric with no rhythm, words or melody just tones and timbre being explored. It certainly can help to scare the pants off the players. >Mark Winkelmann ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:27:34 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: Little Nukes Stephen wrote: >Anyway he told me that the Russians had developed a back pack >nuke, that is an nuclear bomb small enough to fit inside a briefcase or >rucksack. More than this, they had built 80 of them prior to the fall of >the USSR. However, a recent investigation by General Lebed, while he was >still security minister revealed that the Red Army could only find 47 f >them. Shortly therafter he was fired from his job. Ouch! I though that reducing the size of nukes (below about 500lbs) was technically unfeasible. As I recall this was unrelated to the critical mass of plutonium you would need (I'm no physicist and I don't think that the critical mass needed to initiate a nuke is common knowledge), but something to do with radiation sheilding... of course, if you're fanatical enough than little things like tumours, large blisters, no immune system and all your hair falling out might not matter (viz. the final episode of "Edge of Darkness"). I suppose it depends on how big your briefcase is! I guess part of the story involved the fabled "Red Mercury" which had something to do with making atomic bombs smaller (nice plot line here, as no one has ever proven that Red Mercury exists - although I do remember seeing a documentary on the beeb a couple of years back about a South African arms dealer who claimed to have samples of the stuff shortly before he was assassinated by parties unknown). I did once know how Red Mercury was supposed to work... unfortunately my memory isn't what it used to be. Terrorist access to nuclear materials is of course a big worry (personally I'm more concerned about biologicals but there you go). However, the technology involved in making an atomic device is reasonably heavy duty (this is dealt with rather nicely in the Tom Clancy novel "The sum of all fears"). The big question is why fabricate a bomb with (e.g) stolen plutonium (getting a warhead off the shelf is another matter) when you could cause at least as much trouble by grinding it up small and dropping it in a major reservoir. (Fish?)food for thought? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:39:49 -0700 From: Christian Conkle Subject: DG: RE: Freaking the Mundanes 1. One thing I do to ensure players sticking around from session to session is to have it on a neutral day that all can agree on and work their schedules around as much as possible. We game on Saturday afternoons at a local game store. We used to game on Tuesday nights at my place, but my place was too small and people began to work on Tuesdays, so we switched it. Also, keep in mind, and I always remind my players of this, it's JUST A GAME. They are not to feel obligated to forego any other activity for the game. They are not to ditch family or friends or girl/boy-friends just to make it to the game. Having said that, I have rescheduled flights home from business trips to be able to game on Friday nights with my other group, so go figure. 2. That's one of the great things about Delta Green. DG allows you to tell your players "We're playing Call of Cthulhu." then throw the mythos away, or include parts of it, or include all of it. The players never know what to expect. In our group, we experiment with games often and people who want to play or run a certain game must "pitch" it to the rest of the group. My friend Cheney pitched DG as X-Files meets Millenium. They wanted me to run it so I said "sure" (I was told yesterday that I was the greatest GM any of these people had ever seen *blush* *blush* *blush* ). My big fear was that the campaign would be too similar in scope to a Champions game my friend Fred ran a few months back with aliens, conspiracies, and MIB's. Of course, it was comedy game that included, among other things, the Greys making an alliance with the Wicked Witch of the East from Oz and her army of munchkin slaves, not to mention the Atlanteans. Oh, and the Greys all spoke with spanish accents and called our heroes "Gringo Federales". 3. Jack Frost is more likely a diminuation of Ithaqua, much like Pixies are diminuative mytholizations of the ancient pre-Celtic Picts, or Mother Nature is of Shub-Niggurath. Is Santa Claus really a sugar-coating of Nyarlothotep bearing gifts to those who behave a certain way? The Easter Bunny really Tsathoggua? - ----------------------------------------------------- Christian Conkle Web Development Specialist Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory work: conklec@nwrel.org home: conkle@europa.com - ----------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Lech Von Oxen [SMTP:lechvoxen@earthlink.net] > Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 7:14 PM > To: Delta Green List > Subject: DG: Freaking the Mundanes > > Hi all, > > (Crowd screams: Hi Lech!) > > Anyway. > > Couple questions for you nutters: > > 1. Any particular means to keeping players committed (aside from > blackmail, of course)? I just started Pagan's Walker in the Wastes to > have half my players uncommit. It really pissed me off, as I had done > some pretty extensive preparations. Regardless, anyone got any clues to > keep the plebes we call players from ditching on four Fridays in a row? > > 2. And speaking of players, I am continually baffled by the postings by > Keepers that warn their players away from certain messages with fear of > eternal pain in the bowels of Hell. I wouldn't let my players ten feet > from this list, or the DG book, or even the episode of the X-Files where > I got my idea for my favorite NPC. Only one of my players has a clue > that Pagan even has a book called Delta Green, and the rest just think > CoC is a role-playing game -- no one actually knows what I do here alone > in preparing for the campaign (hehehehehehe...). Question, then: when > players know about the Mythos already, but are attempting to play > ignorant characters, are there any special preparations Keepers make to > keep their characters ignorant of their players' knowledge. Sure, good > players can make the distinction, but truly good players are as hard to > find as truly good keepers. > > 3. After watching Fargo, again, last night (and having spent the last > six months reading Walker in the Wastes fowards and backwards), I > pondered the similarities between Paul Bunyan and Ithaqua ... I mean, > c'man, let's talk about Ethnocentrism at its greatest feat: Americans > take traditional Inuit (Aztec, Japanese, etc.) Wind God and say, "But > will the kids like it?" Suddenly there's a big axe instead of webbed > foot prints, and a big blue ox (Babe) for the PG-13 appeal. I'm sure an > upper-level Disney executive will one day fall into the cult's hands, > and the new movie will feature Paul Bunyan being released from > imprisonment by his happy, little dwarf-helpers. Anyone else made this > connection? > > OK, I'm going to leave before I hurt myself. > > Call me Lech. ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #84 *******************************