From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #87 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, July 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 087 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:32:20 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:48:55 -0400 Afterburner writes: >> Also...And this is just a pet-peeve. People saying "Nuculer". > > You can thank Eisenhower for that one. He may not have been >the first >user of that pronunciation, but he was certainly the most famous. He >uttered it frequently in any official pronouncements regarding nuclear >issues. > > AB > I remember some antinuke on a TV talk show claiming that "Ee-lectricity generated by Nuculer Power is _Radioactive_"! Michael theherald@juno.com "I say we dust off and nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure!" --- CPL Hicks, USCM ("Aliens") _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:32:18 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:07:49 +0100 (BST) Stephen Joseph Ellis writes: > > Lo, > > Funny, this should come up, I was just having a drink the >other night with >a friend who was telling me about a recent series on television >discussing >nuclear, chemical and germ warfare. > Anyway he told me that the Russians had developed a back pack >nuke, that is an nuclear bomb small enough to fit inside a briefcase >or >rucksack. More than this, they had built 80 of them prior to the fall >of >the USSR. However, a recent investigation by General Lebed, while he >was >still security minister revealed that the Red Army could only find 47 >f >them. Shortly therafter he was fired from his job. And in the Red Army, when they fire you, they have a special squad for the task! :) > As I say, I didnt see the programme so I cant vouch for its >accuracy, but even the possibility that terrorists or fanatics have a >small, and undetectable nuke worries me. Especially with the IRA >feeling >desperate and marginalised in N.Ireland. > And anything that makes me shudder in real life is perfect to >put >into DG. I haven't found any information yet on Russian Atomic Demolition Munitions, but I'm still looking. Meanwhile, here's something I found on US ADMs, to give you some idea of the tech the military admits to having... The US Army's MADM (Medium Atomic Demolition Munition) was an adaption of the W-45 warhead developed for the Bullpup missile. It had three yields in the 1-15 KT range, adjustable by varying the deuterium-tritium mixture in the fissile core. The Bullpup warhead weighed about 150 lbs, but the MADM's weight was given as slightly under 350 lbs (including the H-815 container (42.5 inches long, 24.5 inches diameter, watertight to permit underwater placement), warhead, firing cable, coding/decoding unit, and firing set). Its Permissive Action Link is described as a "mechanical combination lock". It could be time-fuzed or command detonated. 350 were built between January 1962 and June 1966, and all were retired by the end of 1984. The weapon reportedly had some reliability problems in service. A bit on the bulky side, but the RFP was for a weapon which could be placed by a six-man team... Somewhat smaller was the Army's M-159 SADM (Special Atomic Demolition Munition), with a choice of yields in the range of 10T to 1KT, and a weight of about 150 lbs (59 lbs of which is the W-54 warhead itself). It uses a mechanical combination lock PAL, and is time-fused. It can be emplaced by a two-person team. Between August 1964 and June 1968, approximately 260 SADMs were manufactured. While some of the early marks have been retired, about 200 remain in service. Keep in mind that the above two weapons were built with 1960s tech... Michael theherald@juno.com "Buy one today! Special bargain prices! Be the first kid on your block to be the last kid on your block!" --- CPT Richard Stobor, Freelance Arms Merchant, advertising his stock of nukes. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:32:19 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:58:50 GMT0BST Robert Thomas writes: >> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:27:34 -0400 >> To: Delta Green List >> From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) >> Subject: DG: Little Nukes >> Reply-to: Delta Green List > >> Stephen wrote: >> >> >Anyway he told me that the Russians had developed a back pack >> >nuke, that is an nuclear bomb small enough to fit inside a >briefcase or >> >rucksack. More than this, they had built 80 of them prior to the >fall of >> >the USSR. However, a recent investigation by General Lebed, while >he was >> >still security minister revealed that the Red Army could only find >47 f >> >them. Shortly therafter he was fired from his job. >> >> Ouch! I though that reducing the size of nukes (below about 500lbs) >was >> technically unfeasible. As I recall this was unrelated to the >critical mass >> of plutonium you would need (I'm no physicist and I don't think that >the >> critical mass needed to initiate a nuke is common knowledge), but >something >> to do with radiation sheilding... of course, if you're fanatical >enough >> than little things like tumours, large blisters, no immune system >and all >> your hair falling out might not matter (viz. the final episode of >"Edge of >> Darkness"). I suppose it depends on how big your briefcase is! >> >> I guess part of the story involved the fabled "Red Mercury" which >had >> something to do with making atomic bombs smaller (nice plot line >here, as >> no one has ever proven that Red Mercury exists - although I do >remember >> seeing a documentary on the beeb a couple of years back about a >South >> African arms dealer who claimed to have samples of the stuff shortly >before >> he was assassinated by parties unknown). I did once know how Red >Mercury >> was supposed to work... unfortunately my memory isn't what it used >to be. >> >> Terrorist access to nuclear materials is of course a big worry >(personally >> I'm more concerned about biologicals but there you go). However, the >> technology involved in making an atomic device is reasonably heavy >duty >> (this is dealt with rather nicely in the Tom Clancy novel "The sum >of all >> fears"). The big question is why fabricate a bomb with (e.g) stolen >> plutonium (getting a warhead off the shelf is another matter) when >you >> could cause at least as much trouble by grinding it up small and >dropping >> it in a major reservoir. >> >> (Fish?)food for thought? >> >> Graeme >> >> graemep@immag.mcg.edu >> >> >> >Hello All, > >Aparently the way around the size requirements re the ammount of >Plutonium needed was quite easy. I'm sure everyone knows how the >Hiroshima bomb worked: > >A sphere of uranium / plutonium (can't remember which) surrounded by >a spherical network of explosive charges. When the explosives >detonate they (providing they are shaped correctly) force the >plutonium / uranium in to super criticality and the chain reaction >sustains itself. > >ie > >Bang. Well, actually, that was the _Nagasaki_ bomb -- the MK-III, codenamed "Fat Man"! It used a sphere of plutonium imploded by "a centrally-directed spherical radial shock wave" into a supercritical state. Doing so makes use of what I have heard termed "explosive lenses" (of Composition B, in "Fat Man"). (IIRC, the configuration of these was part of the _actual_ "Secret of the Atomic Bomb" that the Rosenbergs gave to the Russians! You can't classify physics (at least not long-term, especially after presenting public proof that "It Can Be Done"!), but the AEC can and did classify things such as the manner in which the explosives implode the hollow sphere of plutonium into a supercritical mass...) It was 11 feet long, 5 feet in diameter, and weighed 10,000 lbs. Approximately half its weight was HE to detonate the nuclear charge. (Postwar developments have reduced the HE requirement to 15-40 lbs.) The Hiroshima bomb -- MK-I, codenamed "Little Boy" -- was a "gun-assembly" detonation system. Basically, you had two somewhat subcritical masses of fissionable material (U-235 in the case of "Little Boy", the Hiroshima bomb), one smaller than the other. To detonate, you set off an explosive charge which drives the smaller chunk of U-235 down a tube (a converted smoothbore 3-inch howitzer barrel in "Little Boy") into a corresponding hole in the larger one, forming a supercritical mass and a nice loud explosion. "Little Boy" weighed 8,900 lbs (including a steel casing 6 inches thick!), and measured 126 inches long and 28 inches in diameter. The "Trinity" shot of 15 July 1945 at Alamagordo, NM, was a test of the implosion detonation system. (Some of the Manhattan Project scientists had questions about its efficiency; they did not bother testing the gun-assembly detonation system, feeling it was so simple it could not malfunction!) The "Trinity gadget", as it was referred to, was a sphere containing 5,000 lbs of HE, and 14 lbs of plutonium and "tuballoy" tamper. (My info is from "US Nuclear Weapons", by Chuck Hansen (Aerofax, 1988), ISBN 0-517-56740-7. Fascinating book!) > >Given the level of technology / explosives development in the 1940s >huge (well the bomb was so big it needed a specially converted US >bomber) ammounts of explosives and p / u were needed. Given the >increase in the effectiveness of explosives, especially plastic >explosives, one consequence is that the ammount of p / u needed and >the overall size of the bomb comes down. The original WWII A-bombs used TNT and Composition B (60/40 RDX/TNT). Later explosives included HMX (cyclotetramethylenetetranitrate, or desensitized Torpex), and Octol (70/30 HMX/TNT). In the late 50s-early 60s,more powerful triggering explosives -- DATB (diaminotrinitrobenzene) and TATB (triaminotrinitrobenzene) were introduced. (You may need your team members to run a Sanity check when the DG-Friendly nuclear weapons expert from Army Ordnance starts nonchalantly rattling off the above chemical names....):) > Admittedly these brief / >suit case bombs arn't that powerfull about 5 kilotonnes IIRC the >programme correctly. But they are only intended as battlefield >tactical nukes ie destroy a couple of acres, an airport, marshalling >yard or port etc. Precisely the uses the US Army anticipated for its Atomic Demolition Munitions. While it originally was thinking of using them to deny the enemy assets and transportation routes in event of a withdrawl, it's only a small step from that to sending a special warfare team to deny the enemy assets he already has! > >Of course grind up a pound of uranium and you would theoretically I >think have enough to kill everyone on the planet if a method to >expose everyone via the air could be created. Which, luckily, is slightly harder than it sounds! (I wonder what would get you first, heavy metal poisoning or radioactivity? > >Have fun with that guys. Don't worry! We will... Michael theherald@juno.com > >Rob. >J.R.E.Thomas. >Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. >MScII City and Regional Planning Student. >ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) Nostradamus is great, even better because my wife plays Nostradamus' second wife!!! No kidding. regards sc At 08:04 PM 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote: >On background music: > >>>Films: >>> Basic Instinct > >Cooler than you might think. Lots of good swells. > >>> Crimson Tide > >If you liked that, check out "The Rock" and, when it hits, >"Armageddon" (scores only - I stay far away from words for >background music). Beware "Con Air", though, unless you like >the musical equivalent of a meat grinder roaming around in your >head (so disconcordant, it's scary). > >> The Hunter, the Hunted (Alex Cremens). > >Really good. Available through Wizard's Attic, byt the way, along >with its predecessor (which is arguably better), "Dark Themes >>From Beyond." > >>The Fog (Carpenter) > >One of the best horror scores ever!! If you (or anyone on this list) has >a copy of this, I would gladly pay shipping to mail a blank tape to you >if you could copy it for me (it is long out of print, my copy was >destroyed, >and the record stores laugh at me when I periodically request it). > >Other stuff you guys can (hopefully) use (long): >** "Miracle Mile" score (Tangerine Dream; high energy). >** Thomas Moore - "Music for the Soul" (ominous holy music). >** "Alien 3" score (gods, this is good!). >** Anything by Dead Can Dance (words included, but good luck >understanding > very many of them!). >** "The Usual Suspects" score (as good as the movie itself. 'Nuff said). >** Orbital - "Insides" (particularly "The Box"). >** Anything by Recoil (highly industrial). >** About half of "Nostradamus" (alternately dark and happy; go figure). >** The Death Odors -" International Compilation" (Italian; limited to >1,000 > copies, but it's a hour of sheer madness; mostly what I call > "depth sound"). >** Tangerine Dream - "Zeit" (like the Death Odors, but not as immersing). >** "The Seventh Sign" score. >** "Psycho II" score (Jerry Goldsmith is a god). >** The usual scores ("Hellraiser", "Warlock", "Candy Man", "Jacob's >Ladder", etc.) > > Good listening, > > > - P. > > > Controlled chaos is cool. > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Scott Cleverdon Mercenary of the Occult "just when you think you're being too paranoid, you aren't being nearly paranoid enough..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:33:43 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror Robert Thomas wrote: > The film is 'The Peacemaker', anyone know if its any good? I haven't > seen it. > > Rob. Horrible Bad Evil Eldrich SAN Sucking Horror No, I like HBEESSH, it's much worse than that Clooney is bad, the female lead is forgettable and the plot............ SPOILER ALERT * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * In the second to the last scene, the bad guy with the backpack nuke which, by the way he's holding as if it only weighed 5-10 kg, runs into a church with about a minute left before detonation.. Clooney shots him and then tells the kids in the choir to run for it.. Yeah, Right. It's a nuclear weapon, how far can you run in a minute. Then he and the female lead find they can't defuse it, so they fix it so only the conventional explosive will blow. And it does. So Clooney, the FL, and about twenty cops are standing around the building. No Hazmat suits, no nothing. Nobody seems to be in the least bit upset that the entire area is being dusted with plutonium........ Last scene is Clooney and the FL in the swimming pool. The world has been saved, everybody is fine, nobody even mentions radiation hazards....... Arrrghhhhhhhh...... And yes, the whole movie is that dumb.... People in plague infested lands should tell people to avoid things like a showing of "Peacemaker". - -----Josh > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:52:50 PDT From: "James Miller" Subject: Re: DG: Re: more movies >From owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org Mon Jul 27 19:15:37 1998 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by nocturne.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA13863 > for deltagreen-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:11:26 -0700 (PDT) >X-Authentication-Warning: zuul.org: majordom set sender to owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org using -f >Received: from mail3.noc.netcom.net (mail3.noc.netcom.net [204.31.1.151]) > by nocturne.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA13859 > for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:11:15 -0700 (PDT) >Received: from frostbit.com (mail.frostbit.com [208.132.189.3]) > by mail3.noc.netcom.net (8.9.1/8.9.1/(NETCOM v2.00)) with SMTP id TAA06329 > for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:08:22 -0700 (PDT) >Message-Id: <199807280208.TAA06329@mail3.noc.netcom.net> >From: "Gregory S. Secaur" >To: "Delta Green List" >Subject: DG: Re: more movies >Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:05:05 -0500 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Priority: 3 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: Delta Green List > >> >The Frighteners >> >The Outisider >> >The Music of Erich Zann >> >The Reanimator >> >Bride of Reanimator >> >Necronomicon >> >The Mouth of Madness >> >The Ressurected >> >Deep Rising >> >Alien >> >Cast a Deadly Spell >> >The Thing >> >Event Horizon >> >Split Second Hello, Split Second would make a great post 2000 campaingn. In The Mouth of Madness was not as good as Lord of Illusition. Lord could be made into as it is. Cast A Deadly Spell has HP as the main character. As for Chronos that is actualy a vampire movie. A campaingne around the object would be a good idea. Hope I gave you some "bad" ideas. See you soon. TheDrIV aka JT ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:40:32 +0100 (BST) From: Stephen Joseph Ellis Subject: Re: DG: Background Music Hi, My old stand-bys for background music are- Silence of the Lambs Twin Peaks Twin Peaks-Fire Walk with Me SJE "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!" -Monty Python ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:52:09 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: RE: DG: Musique Non Stop > >>The Fog (Carpenter) > >One of the best horror scores ever!! If you (or anyone on this list) has >a copy of this, I would gladly pay shipping to mail a blank tape to you >if you could copy it for me (it is long out of print, my copy was >destroyed, >and the record stores laugh at me when I periodically request it). A friend has some John Carpenter OSTs I'll check which ones. > >Other stuff you guys can (hopefully) use (long): >** "Miracle Mile" score (Tangerine Dream; high energy). >** Thomas Moore - "Music for the Soul" (ominous holy music). >** "Alien 3" score (gods, this is good!). >** Anything by Dead Can Dance (words included, but good luck >understanding I like them a lot though a lot of it is quite uplifting and so I would use it for the Dreamlands sequences. >** "The Usual Suspects" score (as good as the movie itself. 'Nuff said). >** Orbital - "Insides" (particularly "The Box"). Good Call >** Anything by Recoil (highly industrial). >** About half of "Nostradamus" (alternately dark and happy; go figure). >** The Death Odors -" International Compilation" (Italian; limited to >1,000 > copies, but it's a hour of sheer madness; mostly what I call > "depth sound"). >** Tangerine Dream - "Zeit" (like the Death Odors, but not as immersing). Good Call, all of their first four albums (also Electronic Meditation, Atem & Alpha Centauri) have a similarly aincient sound and are quite freaky atmospheric. I also like a lot of other so-called Krautrock groups: Faust, Amon Duul 2 and Popol Vuh (who did soundtracks to Nosferatu and Aguirre Wrath of God). The soundtrack to the Wicker Man has just been released, it having never been available before. Its suitably pastoral and folky but I love it. And I must point out for those who haven't sen it that the Wicker Man is the best film in the general horror field. Quite suitable for CoC background as it features primitive religion left to fester on its own. Great for surly locals being unhelpful. >Mark Winkelmann ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:02:16 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: RE: DG: Background Music The magazine is called Electric Shock Treatment, I will check about availability. It is fairly infrequent, like once every six months to a year. Just remembered a couple of old favorites from that area: Deep Listening Band (recorded in an empty underground resivoir tank - almighty echoes) Lights In A Fat City (didgeridoos and oil drum percussion - interesting but not exactly scary) Main (The guitar player from Loop, real exploration of tone and timbre stuff) Crevice (From Texas so should be in the US - Crevice 1 seemed stupidly experimental - 1 78 minute track that hops and skips from sound and style with no context, Crevice 2 which is live is much more atmospheric) Wim Mertens (A possibly French minimalist classical pianist/vocalist, very nice and reminiscent of 19th century romanticism - maybe a dreamlands background). Some of these are things which I don't listen to for "pleasure" and are more functional for atmosphere. SO I'd recommend taking a listen before you splash out top dollar for stuff. Mark Winkelmann >---------- >From: pkapera@juno.com[SMTP:pkapera@juno.com] >Sent: 29 July 1998 03:20 >To: deltagreen@nocturne.org >Subject: Re: DG: Background Music > >> I also use very different music for the >>Dreamlands sequences (Terry Riley especially). A useful source is that >>I >>also do reviews for an experimental music magazine which a friend in >>the >>UK runs and some of the stuff he has sent me is suitable, often very >>atmospheric with no rhythm, words or melody just tones and timbre >>being >>explored. It certainly can help to scare the pants off the players. > >Any chance of you posting some of the names of the ones that >were released - esp. in the U.S. (if you know). At the very least, let >us know what magazine it is (I have a few shoppes I can go to to find >import mags and CDs). > > > - P. > > > Controlled chaos is cool. > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:45:24 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: RE: DG: A Forgotten Horror Well I don't want to get into a slagging match so my final words are as follows > >1) Have you ever listened to the song? I mean, actually comprehended >the lyrics. Try it. They are well meant sentiments though fundamentally I think this kind of thing doesn't work well in the popular song format. Songs with an obvious message like this often come across as heavy handed. However I come from the perspective that its music first and words/lyrics second which many people don't have (How I used to argue with the Dylan fans at college). > >2) Sting is about as far from mainstream as you can get without >getting into industrial/goth on one end or jazz on the other. He >does good work, I'm just guessing you're not a jazz fan, and >therefore don't appreciate Sting. Not that there's anything wrong >with that, everyone has their own taste in music. Don't agree, he's very popular and successful, you read about him in the mainstream press and my parents even have some of his music. He has hits. There's even been a rap cover version of one of his tracks. Now he mightn't be as mainstream as the Spice Girls and he may have a level of 'musical sophistication' from his jazz background that you won't find in much other mainstream music but he is still part of the mainstream. As for jazz I am a major fan (the last album I bought was Pharaoh Sanders, I went to see Herbie Hancock last week) but, shall we say, Sting isn't to my taste. > >Mark Winkelmann ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 06:58:42 -0400 From: Afterburner Subject: Re: DG: Background Music > My old stand-bys for background music are- > > Silence of the Lambs > Twin Peaks > Twin Peaks-Fire Walk with Me For the interested among you, Joe Satriani has some really dark, quirky stuff that would go good with the Mythos, especially the song "Dweller on the Threshhold" (which is a Mythos name if ever I've heard one). Most of his quirky stuff can be heard on "Time Machine," a 2-CD set. Dunno how they've got 'em arranged on the CDs, but on the tapes, the items of interest can be found on the B-side of the 1st cassette. Aside from that, his two other songs which might be of interest are "The Enigmatic," from _Not of this Earth_, and "Hill of the Skull" from _Surfing with the Alien_. Also, for further views on the "Good background music for CoC/DG," check out: http://www.hplovecraft.com/popcult/music.htm AB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:10:52 +0000 From: "John P. Yuda" Subject: Re: Background Music (Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) > And on a related topic does anyone use background music for > atmosphere etc. Two words: Pink Floyd. Excellent Background music, as it doesn't detract from anybody's attention, yet is has this amazing ability to be weird enough in places to be mildly (or more than mildly, depending on the album->anybody ever listen to Ummagumma?) unsettling. Kinda weird. Maybe their pawns...moreso than most, that is. Yuda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:09:33 +0100 From: "Winkelman, Mark" Subject: RE: DG: The stars were right > > Some Endtimes scenario: >After the 3rd world war - the old ones are again walking on this earth - oh >well > >doesn't sound that cool does it? I mean would you fear a squid that's grown >too >big >when you're having your own survival problems with nuclear radiation?? >Probably not! A fanzine I got back in the mid 80's hada proposed play by mail rpg based on after Cthulu comes out and rules the world. The players are in a prison cmap of the last few thousand humans somewhere near the North Pole. It was all very grim and relentless, it mainly seemed to revolve around grubbing for survival and much was made of the sex ratio of around 100-1 men-women, I'll say no more. I suspect the whole thing would be too grim to keep going for long but it might make an interesting interlude. Somehow the players might experience this for one session as a vision of one possible future. I'm sure it would focus their minds. Partly it is inspired by a scen in Dr WHo & The Pyramids of Mars (which I have seen converted to CoC frequently): "But Dr we know that the earth isn't destroyed in the 1920's" "Oh really" and then a quick trip forward 50 years shows what'll happen if you walk away. There are obvious shortcomings and many of the stories aren't appropriate but there is some interesting CoC ideas in some Dr Who episodes. Mark Winkelmann > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:32:30 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: War crimes tribunal (was DG: A Forgotten Horror) Don (amongst others) wrote: > >> Anyone notice that there is now a permanent war crimes tribunal? There is so >> little talk about it but I think it will have a major impact on how the world >> does business. If the UN really uses this tool we could see the budgets of >> intelligence/ covert ops sections skyrocket. One key word, deniability. > >There were reports around last year, of spec-ops units being folded into >one "hunter" group for snatching war-criminals in Bosnia, etc. Can't >remember if they actually did anything, but it was a UN thing. (TIME >magazine?) They did actually manage to shoot a couple of alleged war criminals dead, and capture a couple more. However I heard the other day that the operations have become more difficult as the local government (Serbian?) has begun giving out new identities to those on the wanted list (a pair or twins thought to be camp guards were captured by commandoes and taken back to the Hague, where it was found out that they were not the suspects that were wanted and they had to be released). Capturing the real high ups will be no mean feat as (esp. Milosevic) they seem to be surrounded by small armies. Note that for any UN convention to have work, it must have the necessary teeth. This is a major problem with the Chemical and Biological weapons convention, which prohibits use and development of these materials (except research for _defensive_ purposes - which has something of a broad meaning [viz. you can research how to counter the agents, but to do this you first have to work out how they will be used offensively]) but has no sanctions or penalties built in to punish (or deter) defaulting. Neville Chamberlain's line about "I have in my hand a piece of paper from Herr Hitler" leaps immediately to mind, I'm afraid. But then I'm just a cynical sod. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:25:22 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: Background Music (Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) Snip of Death > Does anyone know some "Detective" music? I hope you know what I mean. > > Regards > Florian Hanke The soundtrack to "Angel Heart". Trust me. (The movie itself may be a good source of ideas for use with the Fate too...) Randall "Johnny Favourite" Orndorff - -- Eat the Rich. The Poor are Tough and Stringy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:37:41 -0400 From: "John C. Detwiler" Subject: Background Music (Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) CoC background music/noise--two words: Lustmord Coil Look'em up ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:51:37 -0500 From: Shane Ivey Subject: DG: Spec-Ops & UN >> There were reports around last year, of spec-ops units being folded into one "hunter" group for snatching war-criminals in Bosnia, etc. Can't remember if they actually did anything, but it was a UN thing. << According to US News & World Report, Special Operations counterterrorism troops from SEAL Team 6 were sent over in 1995 (concealed in big supply drums, even) to form a strike force with CIA officers in order to track down and apprehend Bosnian-Serbian war criminals. Delta Force commandos followed in 1997, joining a now-massive international operation led by the US. "In two separate operations, eight U.S. troops belonging to the U.S. Army's Delta and Torn Victor units put on French uniforms and traveled to Pale, hoping to conduct surveillance on Karadzic while his guard was down." Of course, this may just be so much disinformation to cover up the fact that among the recent Delta Force troops were a number of federal law enforcement and intelligence officers who were then covertly routed through Bosnian Muslim resistance channels to Saudi Arabia and Egypt in pursuit of the so-called "Black Pharaoh Cult" in top secret Operation RAMSES, but that's another story. If you want the "official" story, check out http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/980706/6pifw.htm Shane Ivey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:52:16 -0400 From: "John C. Detwiler" Subject: Re: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror Message text written by Delta Green List >Your fear and loathing of so-called "mispronounciation" only reveals your ignorance!< Right on, brother. I hate language purists. Whenever anyone corrects my pronunciation I sneer. Whenever they correct my grammar I explain to them that grammar rules are arbitrary. Just ask someone if it is correct to say hisself rather than himself and then ask them to explain why. It's lots of fun. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:14:57 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes > To: deltagreen@nocturne.org > Cc: koala@mail.bright.net > Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes > From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:32:19 EDT > Reply-to: Delta Green List > > On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:58:50 GMT0BST Robert Thomas > writes: > >> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:27:34 -0400 > >> To: Delta Green List > >> From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) > >> Subject: DG: Little Nukes > >> Reply-to: Delta Green List > > > >> > >Hello All, > > > >Aparently the way around the size requirements re the ammount of > >Plutonium needed was quite easy. I'm sure everyone knows how the > >Hiroshima bomb worked: > > > >A sphere of uranium / plutonium (can't remember which) surrounded by > >a spherical network of explosive charges. When the explosives > >detonate they (providing they are shaped correctly) force the > >plutonium / uranium in to super criticality and the chain reaction > >sustains itself. > > > >ie > > > >Bang. > > Well, actually, that was the _Nagasaki_ bomb -- the MK-III, > codenamed "Fat Man"! It used a sphere of plutonium imploded by "a > centrally-directed spherical radial shock wave" into a supercritical > state. Doing so makes use of what I have heard termed "explosive > lenses" (of Composition B, in "Fat Man"). (IIRC, the configuration of > these was part of the _actual_ "Secret of the Atomic Bomb" that the > Rosenbergs gave to the Russians! You can't classify physics (at least > not long-term, especially after presenting public proof that "It Can Be > Done"!), but the AEC can and did classify things such as the manner in > which the explosives implode the hollow sphere of plutonium into a > supercritical mass...) It was 11 feet long, 5 feet in diameter, and > weighed 10,000 lbs. Approximately half its weight was HE to detonate the > nuclear charge. (Postwar developments have reduced the HE requirement to > 15-40 lbs.) > > The Hiroshima bomb -- MK-I, codenamed "Little Boy" -- was a > "gun-assembly" detonation system. Basically, you had two somewhat > subcritical masses of fissionable material (U-235 in the case of "Little > Boy", the Hiroshima bomb), one smaller than the other. To detonate, you > set off an explosive charge which drives the smaller chunk of U-235 down > a tube (a converted smoothbore 3-inch howitzer barrel in "Little Boy") > into a corresponding hole in the larger one, forming a supercritical mass > and a nice loud explosion. "Little Boy" weighed 8,900 lbs (including a > steel casing 6 inches thick!), and measured 126 inches long and 28 inches > in diameter. > > The "Trinity" shot of 15 July 1945 at Alamagordo, NM, was a test of > the implosion detonation system. (Some of the Manhattan Project > scientists had questions about its efficiency; they did not bother > testing the gun-assembly detonation system, feeling it was so simple it > could not malfunction!) The "Trinity gadget", as it was referred to, was > a sphere containing 5,000 lbs of HE, and 14 lbs of plutonium and > "tuballoy" tamper. > > (My info is from "US Nuclear Weapons", by Chuck Hansen (Aerofax, > 1988), ISBN 0-517-56740-7. Fascinating book!) > > > > >Given the level of technology / explosives development in the 1940s > >huge (well the bomb was so big it needed a specially converted US > >bomber) ammounts of explosives and p / u were needed. Given the > >increase in the effectiveness of explosives, especially plastic > >explosives, one consequence is that the ammount of p / u needed and > >the overall size of the bomb comes down. > > The original WWII A-bombs used TNT and Composition B (60/40 > RDX/TNT). Later explosives included HMX > (cyclotetramethylenetetranitrate, or desensitized Torpex), and Octol > (70/30 HMX/TNT). In the late 50s-early 60s,more powerful triggering > explosives -- DATB (diaminotrinitrobenzene) and TATB > (triaminotrinitrobenzene) were introduced. > > (You may need your team members to run a Sanity check when the > DG-Friendly nuclear weapons expert from Army Ordnance starts nonchalantly > rattling off the above chemical names....):) > > > Admittedly these brief / > >suit case bombs arn't that powerfull about 5 kilotonnes IIRC the > >programme correctly. But they are only intended as battlefield > >tactical nukes ie destroy a couple of acres, an airport, marshalling > >yard or port etc. > > Precisely the uses the US Army anticipated for its Atomic > Demolition Munitions. While it originally was thinking of using them to > deny the enemy assets and transportation routes in event of a withdrawl, > it's only a small step from that to sending a special warfare team to > deny the enemy assets he already has! > > > > >Of course grind up a pound of uranium and you would theoretically I > >think have enough to kill everyone on the planet if a method to > >expose everyone via the air could be created. > > Which, luckily, is slightly harder than it sounds! (I wonder what > would get you first, heavy metal poisoning or radioactivity? > > > > >Have fun with that guys. > > Don't worry! We will... > > Michael > theherald@juno.com > > > > >Rob. > >J.R.E.Thomas. > >Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. > >MScII City and Regional Planning Student. > >ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk > > > > Hello all, what can I say except whoops got my Nuclear weapons confused there now which button restarts the comptuer the green or red one? Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. 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