From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #89 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, July 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 089 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:49:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Radioactive Deep Ones? On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Ford Benjamin wrote: > Hearkening back to the subject line, with > all those nuclear armed ships falling apart in the harbour, who knows how > that may have affected the locals? Foul hybrids not good enough? Try > stooped, shuffling scaly Russian peasants with festering sores from > radiation poisoning. Of course, imagining what radiation could do to the > Deep Ones (and their allies like shoggoths or star spawn) actually living > under the harbour is probably best not considered...... One report I saw some time back said that Uncle Ivan was simply *dumping* nuke-waste (canned) and entire concrete-filled submarine reactor assemblies in the Arctic Ocean off Novya Zemlya or such. And you thought *Deep Ones* were bad - what mutant monstrosities would it take to make *them* go, "Oh, ick, go a-*way*..." Don ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:44:47 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Wheee! Linguistics! On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Jay and Mikiko Noyes wrote: > I disagree. Linguistic variance is neither good nor bad, it simply _is_. > It is generally the result of the conflict between ease of production (many > people, for instance, pronounce "months" as "muns" because it is easier) and > success in communication. Yer, showin' yer nihilism here! > Say, you're in Hawaii, right. You ever have a class with a fellow > named Derek Bickerton? I hear he's a pain in the butt, but some of what he > writes is way cool. > > Now you'll tell me that you're his son... Never heard of him. Sounds like I'm his clone tho'. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:36:53 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: Re: War crimes tribunal (was DG: A Forgotten Horror) At 09:32 AM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote: ) > >They did actually manage to shoot a couple of alleged war criminals dead, >and capture a couple more. However I heard the other day that the >operations have become more difficult as the local government (Serbian?) >has begun giving out new identities to those on the wanted list (a pair or >twins thought to be camp guards were captured by commandoes and taken back >to the Hague, where it was found out that they were not the suspects that >were wanted and they had to be released). Capturing the real high ups will >be no mean feat as (esp. Milosevic) they seem to be surrounded by small >armies. > What has lately been receiving a lot of airplay on Canadian news channels is the story of the snatch of twin Serbian brothers by the British SAS. The house where these suspected war criminals were hiding had been under surveillance for some time. Once the targets were confirmed, a snatch team went in, took the brothers and they were transported to the Hague for trial. The only problem was, the twins who were snatched weren't the war criminals. They had somehow snuck in while under surveillance and switched with the actual targets. The brothers who were arrested are now being celebrated as heroes by the Serbians and are apparently considering suing the Coalition forces for false arrest and imprisonment. ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:32:39 -0700 From: pkapera@juno.com Subject: Re: DG: Detective Music >> Does anyone know some "Detective" music? I hope you know what I >mean. The score for "Dark City", the recent movie (in the U.S.). Also, almost any classic Jazz would work (Billie Holiday, Miles Davis, etc.). - P. Controlled chaos is cool. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:29:51 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: RE: DG: A Forgotten Horror At 11:47 AM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Oh, and a TV set will irradiate you >>way more than a pellet of uranium, according to that special. Not all at >>once I'm sure, but accumulated over time, and how much time do you spend >>sitting in front of a uranium pellet? > >Yes. This is a good one. When I went on my work radiation safety course, I >had to fill in a form saying what "radiation producing devices do you >intend to use?". And they were surprised with the answer "computer >monitors". Hmmm, we're straying pretty close to the "grammar and pronuciation" debate here. Speaking as an occupational health professional who may have to present on workplace radiation exposure ... It's extremely difficult to explain that the difference between ionizing radiation (what most people think of when they hear "radiation" and "radioactive") and non-ionizing radiation. To most people, radiation means a clicking Geiger counter and glowing stuff. And yes, televisions and computer monitors do produce a very small amount of X-rays (ionizing radiation) in addition to the electric and magnetic fields (non-ionizing radiation). In almost all cases, however, the X-rays are absorbed by the lead and barium salts added to the glass. Your exposure to ionizing radiation is probably greater from the book that you're holding. The clays used to produce fine paper (that used for books, covers, magazines, etc.) contain enough radioactive isotopes to produce radiation levels above the background. >By the way, anyone live in a granite rich area... 40% above >normal background counts as I recall. Hey! It's you flat-landers who have below normal background radiation exposures. :) Those of us living on the Pre-Cambrian shield are just fine ... >Anyway, uranium is no big deal >(depending on which isotope you use: I use non-radioactive uranyl acetate >to stain sections for electron microscopy)... the heavy metal poisoning >from uranium (unless it is the enriched reactor-grade stuff) will kill you >before the radiation does! > Actually, all isotopes of uranium are unstable and, therefore, "radioactive". Some isotopes, however, have much less activity and are strictly alpha emitters (for non-physicists, the slow particles that are stopped by paper). The toxic hazard of depleted or non-enriched uranium is considerable and is certainly the primary concern in some circumstances. Mainly when there are above normal concentrations in well water, resulting in a chronic exposure that may damage the kidneys. Perhaps in the future radiation induced cancer might develop but that's not an immediate concern. ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:32:43 PDT From: "James Miller" Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes > >Interesting discussion. >Has anyone mentioned the "Davy Crocket" tactical nuclear rocket from the >early Viet Nam era? It was an early attempt at a small field nuclear >divice. Since the blast radius was larger than the range, finding someone >dumb enough to fire one would have been a problem though. > >Letting one of your investigators have one and seeing if they check the >specs could be fun! > >Phil > Hi all, I happen to be one of Phill's gamers. What he said is food for thought. So is this..."Who gave the baby the gun?" Do you realy want a gammer to have such a device? I have one word for Phill.... Jullian. Need I remind you what he did with a sub? ') This a warning to all CoC GMs, only place the device in games with people who do not live by the axiom "Shoot first and ask questions latter." Bye Bye for now TheDr4 aka JT Miller ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:40:46 PDT From: "James Miller" Subject: Re: DG: Re: more movies >Did you mean the 1950s "Split Second"? >I'm >surprised that no one has mentioned "The Wicker Man" which has all of the >elements of a good CoC campaign! > >Phil > I was talking about the 1990's version with Rutger Hauger (I think that is how you spell his name. It was about a detective psychily linked to a mutant on a killing spree. Well, I like it. It is like wat the man looking lor a CPA to audit his wardrobe was told. "There is no accountant for taste." TheDr4 aka JT Miller ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:35:43 -0700 (PDT) From: scott cleverdon Subject: DG: Mo' Music I would highly recomment that you try the following : The English Patient Soundtrack ( middle-eastern/bulgarian chants/30's jazz/sweeping orchestral Night on Earth, the soundtrack, Tom Waites - perfect post-modern industrial noise and atmosphere. DG is written all over it... Scott Cleverdon Mercenary of the Occult "just when you think you're being too paranoid, you aren't being nearly paranoid enough..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:55:40 -0700 From: Lech Von Oxen Subject: Re: DG: Freaking the Mundanes Hi kids, Thanks for you thoughts on player discipline. You've made my situation quite apparant. Evidently, I just have a problem finding a good gaming group. I have two devotees, but they're sick of playing with just the three of us, and really like the thrill of a four or five player group. I agree with them, but, as stated, have had the problem of finding people who even show up. So there's that. I guess I'm just not looking in the right places... Lech out. "You don't make friends with salad!" - - Bart and Homer Simpson. Florian Hanke wrote: > > Lech Von Oxen wrote: > > > 1. Any particular means to keeping players committed (aside from > > blackmail, of course)? I just started Pagan's Walker in the Wastes to > > have half my players uncommit. It really pissed me off, as I had done > > some pretty extensive preparations. Regardless, anyone got any clues to > > keep the plebes we call players from ditching on four Fridays in a row? > > > > Aaaah... Now I feel *really* good with my extremely devoted group!I can't > understand these players. "Walker in the Wastes" may be hard, but it's > a very tense campaign (especially up in the polar ice and when time's > running out) > and very rewarding for players and GM alike! I hope you find some other > players > to finish it! I think you guys already tried this, but agree on a day that > everybody can come. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:58:18 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: Detective Music On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:32:39 -0700 pkapera@juno.com writes: >>> Does anyone know some "Detective" music? I hope you know what I >>mean. > >The score for "Dark City", the recent movie (in the U.S.). >Also, almost any classic Jazz would work (Billie Holiday, Miles >Davis, etc.). > And for you traditionalists, there's the "Peter Gunn" theme (if you can find it...)! Michael theherald@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:58:18 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: Radioactive Deep Ones? On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:49:23 -0500 (CDT) Don Juneau writes: >On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Ford Benjamin wrote: > > > >> Hearkening back to the subject line, with >> all those nuclear armed ships falling apart in the harbour, who >knows how >> that may have affected the locals? Foul hybrids not good enough? Try >> stooped, shuffling scaly Russian peasants with festering sores from >> radiation poisoning. Of course, imagining what radiation could do to >the >> Deep Ones (and their allies like shoggoths or star spawn) actually >living >> under the harbour is probably best not considered...... > >One report I saw some time back said that Uncle Ivan was simply >*dumping* >nuke-waste (canned) and entire concrete-filled submarine reactor >assemblies in the Arctic Ocean off Novya Zemlya or such. Apparently some time in the 70s, their nuclear icebreaker "Lenin" had some sort of nuclear accident, and, IIRC the affected reactor was eventually dropped into the ocean in that general area. I'm not sure what safeguards (if any) the Russians may have taken with it. The US Navy did something similar back in the early 60s, when the military was still a bit naive about the effects of radiation on the ocean ecosystem. The submarine USS Seawolf (not the current SSN-21, but the previous Seawolf, the second US SSN) had been built with an S2G liquid sodium cooled reactor, partly to test this type of reactor vs. the S2W pressurized water cooled reactor in Nautilus. The design proved less than completely successful in service. (The sodium in the primary loop of the S2G soon became far more radioactive than an equivalent amount of water, it tended to burst into flames on contact with water (another reason, besides it being hot -- both thermally and radiologically, that leaks were BAD News!), and it could not be completely shut down (as the sodium metal would then freeze inside the reactor and primary loop -- more Bad News!). The Soviet Navy had developed similar reactors, and had decided that the greater theoretical energy density of a liquid metal cooled reactor was more important than a few safety problems. However, Rickover _was_ concerned with reactor safety, and thus, after two years of unlimited operations, the S2G was shut down in December of 1958, the boat was drydocked for reactor replacement, and a modified Nautilus type PWR was installed, the boat recommissioning 30 September 1960. The S2G reactor assembly was reportedly deep-sixed in the Atlantic, a few hundred miles due east of the Delaware-Pennsylvania border. (This policy has not been repeated in later years when the US Navy scrapped some of its older nuclear subs -- the "hot" components are now sent to a special facility in the western US for burial. Check out the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard website for data on this procedure, together with some very depressing pictures of nuclear subs being scrapped...) Also, the Russians lost the Komsomolets (K-278), their one Mike-class SSN, on 4 July 1989, due to fire and flooding. It sank in the Barents Sea -- in a location about a mile down. The Russians later seemed very concerned about salvaging this boat -- even talking to some European salvage firms when they found they couldn't carry it out themselves. There was speculation on why the Russians wanted their sunken sub salvaged -- it couldn't be restored to service, and there were no others of its class... With the thaw in the Cold War, the news came out that the Russians (for once) were worried about a radiation hazard -- not from the SSN's reactor (which had apparently been safely scrammed and was mostly harmless now) -- but from the nuclear warheads of the torpedoes (possibly the 53-68 or the older ET-80 (66) type fish), the casings of which were being corroded by the salt water. Eventually, a Russian expedition, with some US help, managed to seal off the warheads, and make the wreck safe (for now). But, IIRC, the warheads are still down there... Possible scenario idea for you folks with DG cells with Navy connections... Awhile back, I put together a story outline (never got around to writing the story) concerning a joint US/Russian salvage expedition to the Komsomolets wreck. No, Operation RED SHARK was not "Raise the Komsomolets" -- they weren't after the boat itself. (Although some of the USN personnel along didn't mind getting a good look -- they were submariners themselves, after all, and Russian-speaking (to better understand their Russian partners on this mission, of course...)) :) They were there to salvage the torpedo warheads, which would then no longer be a potential underwater menace, and could be take back to the Rodina to be dismantled like some of the rest of the former USSR nuclear stockpile... Needless to say, it was not a boring op, and besides the usual dangers of salvage operations a mile down, there was a traitor within the party with connections with the "Russian Mafia", and his own agenda for the warheads... (Big surprise!) One of the warheads turns out to still be useable, and that's the one that ends up being hijacked by the traitor. He forces a US Navy officer to fly him out to a sub the conspirators have got operational (an old Foxtrot-class boat), promising the officer that "you can return safely to your ship after the warhead and I are aboard the submarine". When his partners try to shoot down the helicopter after he is dropped off, he quarrels with them, and ends up being shot by them. The helo pilot (who was told to "leave the area as fast as you can after dropping me off") does so -- his transmitter was wrecked by the hijacker, and he needs to get back to the ship to get a message out concerning the sub. (US and Russian naval forces might have a chance of locating and sinking it...) As the hijacker's buddies aboard the submerged Foxtrot class boat gloat to their dying ex-comrade, he informs them that he has taken out a "life insurance policy"... A specialist in Russian Navy nuclear weapons (one reason he was on the expedition), he knew how to disengage the Permissive Action Links, and set a homemade timer to trigger the warhead. (After the damage it suffered in the sinking, and sitting in salt water in the wreck for years, and the decay of its tritium, it will not go off with anything near its rated yield, but even a 10% yield will be equal to a hundred tons of TNT...) He had intended to simply reset the timer manually every so often to keep the nuke from triggering. His ex-partners insist he is bluffing and ---- No Cthulu Monsters (though you might throw in a couple of Deep Ones, if you must, for local color...). Just your ordinary evil conspiracy to hijack a nuclear warhead! But maybe DG can do something with it? Michael theherald@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:47:51 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Re: War crimes tribunal - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : G. Wyckoff 宛先 : deltagreen@nocturne.org 日時 : 1998年7月29日 8:01 件名 : DG: Re: War crimes tribunal Jerry wrote, >Or, even worse: a DG agent gets caught in mid-op and thrown in the prison >for war crimes (how is the UN supposed to know that the Mi-go, and not >your friendly DG agent standing over the ruins, actually detroyed the >village). The PC's have to decide whether to follow orders and forget >about it, or break their fellow agent (PC or NPC) out of prison. > >Great way to get those DG agents over to Europe. Sounds like the REAL reason the USA was against creating the court! Of course, they were worried about MJ-12 and REO DELTA boys getting tried for war crimes, not us. Luke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:44:51 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: Little Nukes - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Florian Hanke 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月30日 7:20 件名 : Re: DG: Little Nukes Florian Hanke wrote: >Another good example are the >studies about Lasertanks(!) in the 60s. They even wanted to use LSD as a Weapon in >the Vietnam war, and tried it on willing subjects (own soldiers). Same with the >british army during WWI, they tried the effects of toxins on volunteers. What >happened to these people - especially the LSD-ones? Maybe stuff for a good >scenario? Lasertanks? Did they really build any? Check out _Jacob's Ladder_ for nice stuff on post-Vietnam-drug-testbunny-syndrome. Excellent, creepy movie. And there was an X-Files episode about a guy who'd been operated on so that he could never sleep, but could project his dreams. That was the first episode with Ratboy, I think. David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:39:07 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Nyarly & nukular stuff (heh heh heh) - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : CroakerJr@aol.com 宛先 : deltagreen@nocturne.org 日時 : 1998年7月29日 9:37 件名 : DG: Nyarly & nukular stuff (heh heh heh) Shane wrote lots of good stuff, re: >Someone asked about running a game with Islamic or quasi-Islamic terrorists >following Nyarlathotep. The big N has always been strongly connected to Egypt and the Middle East. I don't see any problem with him appearing as Muhammed or Jesus or anyone else. He's a Master of Disguise, y'know? I mean, if there's some supernatural law preventing him from appearing as some holy figure, then how come the guys who make Southpark can draw Jesus getting the stuffing beaten out of him by Satan? (Great episode, BTW.) And as far as love being the true message of Islam, well, that depends on who's true Islam you're talking about. Or any other religion, for that matter--I ain't singling out Islam. I mean, AUM Shinrikyo was a millenial Buddhist religion--millenial Buddhism!?! "The Devil can quote scripture" and all that. A leader with enough charisma can twist any religion into a weapon, regardless of the original intent of that religion. >IMO, all this brings up another juicy Lovecraftian theme: people may well >further the aims of the servants of the Old Ones simply by not taking them >seriously. "You're saying the FBI and CIA should investigate this group >because they believe they can resurrect Hitler? Go back to your desk!" Heck, >this ought to be a factor in every DG game. Absolutely. The main thing that's going to get us killed, in the real world or the Mythos world, is this very thing. I like adventures that reflect real-world problems, trying not to be too heavy-handed about it, but using the Mythos as a metaphor to bring into relief what we are doing to ourselves and the world. (I think this is the case with virtually all the modern Mythos fiction, BTW--I'm not doing anything unusual.) Not taking real threats seriously is right up near the top of the list. Finally, as regards the linguistic purity debate: I'm an English teacher, and I used to teach Freshman Comp, so I've done a LOT of grammar and spelling nitpicking in my time. More than enough to last me a lifetime. This is email, not something for publication, not a job application, not a term paper. I won't get into whether nitpicking is justified in those other areas, but in an informal discussion like this, I hope nobody's gonna waste any time over stuff like that. We've got people from all over the world here, too, and English often isn't their native language. As long as I can understand it, it's OK by me. That said, I love making fun of people who say "nucular," too. Just don't pick on me for saying "y'all." There are perfectly valid historical linguistic reasons for it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:01:42 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: A Forgotten Horror (nukular wor 'n' angles) - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : Jay and Mikiko Noyes 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月30日 2:09 件名 : Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror Jay Noyes, Lord of Silly Latin Quotes, wrote: >The biblical angels were definitely >not a touchy-feely bunch (check out the story of Azrael when you get the >chance) and certainly weren't interested in whether you were being properly >nurtured. Burning swords definitely get mentioned. I prefer my angels kind of like that one on the cover of the DG book. More into scourging than nurturing. Again, _Kult_ has lots of good stuff for that. "Touched by an Old One"--very nice, whoever posted that! (We've had so much traffic lately, I'm accidentally deleting things after just skimming them.) As regards continuing nuclear dangers, yeah, us folks in Asia are still a mite nervous. I remember when there was that tense time when N.Korea was saying how it was going to nuke Seoul--this was just after the "Great Leader" died. There were maps in the news magazines showing the range of the missiles, and Fukuoka was well within range. Closest major Japanese city, in fact. And even the S.Koreans don't have much love for Japan. Duck and cover! David Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:25:52 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jesper_J=FChne?=" Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes Hi All I don't know if you have touched on this topic in the Little Nukes discussion? Some of my friends (who are Ph.D. in Physics) told me that the problem with a nuclear weapon is to make a explosion bringing the Plutonium/Uranium together. It is true that the principle of making a nuclear bomb is simple, just add together enough P/U and a chainreaction will acure. The problem is that in order to "add the stuff together" you need a very precise and controlled explosion for it to work. Acoording to my friends this is very difficult. So if a terrorist group had then material to make a bomb, they would still need some blueprints in order to make the bomb. Jesper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:07:06 -0400 From: "John C. Detwiler" Subject: DG: RE: Re: War crimes tribunal >...REO DELTA boys...< Please, tell me this isn't some hybrid of SRO DELTA and REO SPEEDWAGON. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:26:21 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Radioactive Deep Ones? Benjamin wrote: >I was having a talk with a physicist buddy of mine about NBC weapons and >their use in the coming century. This was also about the same time I'd just >bought Escape from Innsmouth. I started thinking to myself, "It'd be great >if there was something like this for Delta Green." Actually, there is rather a good plot on this topic that I used myself to great effect in the pre-DG days (remember them?!) back in, oh... '94 I guess. It was all based on a plot about Deep Ones and their agents getting hold of nuclear weapons for their own purposes: viz. to see if they could hasten the rise of Ry'leh when the Stars were _almost_ right. This involved lots the kidnap and capture of an elderly Cambridge geology professor to exploit his ideas on plate tectonics and deep blasting to create controlled(ish) plate shifts. The investigators got their first lead on the London Underground when an ex-FBI agent (who had been watching Innsmouth privately for sometime and was following up his own lead in the UK) stepped onto their train mid heart attack (having just received the Prof. Gammell treatment) and pressed a diary into their hands. Much weirdness, insanity and general carnage ensued as the investigators tried to find out just what the hell was going on. Unfortunately, the campaign fell apart (as the academic year ended and my players moved home for the summer) befor they got over the Atlantic to follow up on the relevant leads that would lead them to the atomic devices (at the time, the PCs weren't even sure they existed). Anyway the source of the atomic devices? In 1963 (I think) the USS Thresher sank under unusual conditions whilst undergoing sea trials just off the coast of New England... literally about 100 miles away from the projected psoition of Innsmouth (an easy shoggoth ride). I have reprints of the front page of The Times from the dates concerned (great handouts!), and all sorts of background data (please don't ask me to post them: All my past campaign notes are still in the UK). Had to bend history a little and put 2 SUBROC atomic depth charge weapons aboard the Thresher (which was a nuclear sub): SUBROC didn't enter service 'till '65 (IIRC) but it's not unreasonable that experimental versions were aboard Thresher. Just a little bit of refitting by favourite cultist controlled industrial concern (following recovery from extreme depth via deep ones etc.) and you're ready to rock and roll. Anyway, I had great fun running that Campaign. Especially when the PI's heart exploded out of his chest in front on the PC with a blood fetish. But that's another story. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:02:51 -0500 From: Shane Ivey Subject: DG: R'lyehan, whoa-oh, radio. (Got a barbequed I-tha-qua...?) If we have any radio/electromagnetics experts on the list, I have a question which you could maybe explain in a "physics for idiots" sort of way. Why is it that radio does not work underwater? Is it a matter of conductivity, that water is less conducive to the transference of energy than is air? Or is it something else which I have managed to forget in the years since I took introductory chemistry? "What does this have to do with Delta Green," you ask? Well, a couple of things. First off, I'm a staunch believer in describing Lovecraftian supernatural events in terms of physical phenomena, so I've always been curious about Lovecraft's aside in "The Call of Cthulhu" where he explains Cthulhu's telepathic silence as being due to his submersion in the sea and compares it, if I recall correctly, to radio. Secondly, I'd like to concoct some "Marvel Universe"-quality quasi-scientific descriptions of Grey-adapted technology which may enhance or perfect underwater remote communications. Bo knows social sciences--Bo don't know physics... ;-) Shane Ivey http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:27:34 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: MI-5 Website Hey guys, look what I just found: http://www.m15.gov.uk/ The newly setup official website for HMG's security service. Hmmm. Must investigate further..... Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:30:44 -0400 From: Afterburner Subject: Re: DG: MI-5 Website >Hey guys, look what I just found: > >http://www.m15.gov.uk/ Um. That should be http://www.mi5.gov.uk/ You've got a number one instead of an "i" AB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:52:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "Matt C." Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: War crimes tribunal At 09:07 AM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >>...REO DELTA boys...< > >Please, tell me this isn't some hybrid of SRO DELTA and REO SPEEDWAGON. > > Ridin' the storm out! and we ain't missin' a thing, yeah, Great Cthulhu's taken wing, + | + Matt Cowger - 'The worst are full of passionate intensity, while the best lack all conviction.' - Yeats Tenebrae@Earthling.net ICQ UIN:5409084 Cam #:9607-020 http://home.gvi.net/~tenebrae + | + ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:39:08 +0200 From: "Florian Hanke" Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes David Farnell wrote: > > > > Lasertanks? Did they really build any? > (Un-) fortunately they stopped the project. The reason was: To penetrate steel of 1/2 inch thickness from about 1km you need the energy output of a nuclear power plant and direct the beam for about 3 seconds on the same spot. But laser can still be used as a weapon (especially by terrorists) for blinding. For that you need just a car battery - the only countermeasures against this are to give, for example, soldiers eyepatches so that one eye remains operational - pretty sarcastic, huh? Regards Florian Hanke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:16:47 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:25:52 +0200 "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jesper_J=FChne?=" writes: Some of my friends (who are Ph.D. in Physics) told me that >the(snip) >problem with a nuclear weapon is to "add the stuff together" >you >need a very precise and controlled explosion for it to work. Acoording >to my >friends this is very difficult. While this is technically true, as I understand it, making a critical , or near critical, mass without the density required for an actual explosion is much easier and VERY messy. Phil. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:38:55 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: RE: Re: War crimes tribunal - -----Original Message----- 差出人 : John C. Detwiler 宛先 : Delta Green List 日時 : 1998年7月30日 22:23 件名 : DG: RE: Re: War crimes tribunal Agent John Detwiler wrote: >>...REO DELTA boys...< > >Please, tell me this isn't some hybrid of SRO DELTA and REO SPEEDWAGON. > > > Whoooops! Getting my alphabet soup agencies mixed up with cheesey pop groups. ELO, BTO, SMAP... Luke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:25:15 EDT From: Escutcheon@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: War crimes tribunal Oh NO! <<<< ...REO DELTA boys... Please, tell me this isn't some hybrid of SRO DELTA and REO SPEEDWAGON. Ridin' the storm out! and we ain't missin' a thing, yeah, Great Cthulhu's taken wing, etc. ;) >>>> All projected from large speakers mounted on sinister black helicopters! AAUGH! The ultimate eldritch junior high dance band horror! - - J. Fred (Gibber, Gibber) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:46:19 EDT From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:39:08 +0200 "Florian Hanke" writes: > > >David Farnell wrote: > > >> >> >> >> Lasertanks? Did they really build any? >> > >(Un-) fortunately they stopped the project. The reason was: >To penetrate steel of 1/2 inch thickness from about 1km you need the >energy >output of a nuclear power plant and direct the beam for about 3 >seconds on the >same spot. > >But laser can still be used as a weapon (especially by terrorists) for >blinding. >For that you need just a car battery - the only countermeasures >against this are >to give, for example, soldiers eyepatches so that one eye remains >operational - >pretty sarcastic, huh? > >Regards >Florian Hanke > The US military may have already gotten around to issuing anti-laser eye protection (protective goggles) to troops who may be exposed to lasers (that includes range-finders, target designators, and the like). Eye protection is likely to be part of the soldier's standard kit on future high-tech battlefields. Several years ago, the USAF was testing some airplane windows which would turn opaque instantly if exposed to a bright flash (such as that of a nuclear explosion). I've seen photos (in Aviation Week) of these fitted to a B-1B, but I don't know if they were officially adopted, or strategic bombers still use the old flash curtains! The closest thing to a laser tank I've seen a photo of was a gas-dynamic laser vehicle for AA defense. It was based on an LVTP-7 (now AAVP-7) chassis (a USMC Amtrac), and the laser, generators, etc. took up the entire hold of the vehicle. It never went into service, and even the photo may have just been a mockup... _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:47:36 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:18:06 +0100 Ian/Cath Ford writes: >OK, you hit my button then guys. Ranting likely to follow... > >:: A whole bunch of stuff talked about nukes and chemical plants and >the >like... I recall when the now closed nuclear plant in my area was still in the planning stage the intended site was literally straddling the San Andreas fault line and the proposed cooling system was liquid sodium. The ramifications of such a design screw-up would be lots of fun to role-play. Living through them would have been another question entirely! Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:13:45 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) >>> I recall when the now closed nuclear plant in my area was still in the planning stage the intended site was literally straddling the San Andreas fault line and the proposed cooling system was liquid sodium. <<< Sounds like the Indian Point reactor we have in the NYC area. 30 miles Upstream, blast radius of 30 miles, built on a fault line. It's got alot of powerful lobbyists on its side and has a pretty bad policy for EPA inspectors. Next to nothing has reached the press about it because whoever is behind it has some well-placed friends. >>> The ramifications of such a design screw-up would be lots of fun to role-play. Living through them would have been another question entirely! <<< It get better: the meltdown emergency evauation plan for the area north of NYC consists of *asking for volunteers* to drive school busses in an get the people out. One thing New Yorkers are not is /that/ stupid. Regards, >>> R. Menzi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:46:45 -0400 (EDT) From: gmgm@netmcr.com (G.M.) Subject: DG: PGP Keys Where, if anywhere, can I find the PGP keys for the members on the list, and where can I post mine? Is there a central location web page? If not... I'll stay in the dark and hope Senor Sock doesn't see me. GAry m, minor epot aka "Sneezy the Squid" - ------------------------------ "Decadence is it's own reward" DNRC Member since 1995 AOL Instant Message ID& AOL email address: gmgm1970 ICQ ID#: 8391493 ICQ nick: minor epot ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #89 *******************************