From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #90 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Friday, July 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 090 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:34:03 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: Re: DG: PGP Keys >>> Where, if anywhere, can I find the PGP keys for the members on the list, and where can I post mine? Is there a central location web page? <<< Inside your PGPkeys program, there is a function called "search." Go there and fill in names that you see people use on the list, or e-mail addresses. You have to do it for each one individually, and e-mail addresses work best, IME, as there is no risk of getting the wrong person's key because they use the same name. Also, shech to make sure that you getthe most recent version of a person's key. I know I had to abbandon a few of my ealier ones because they were compromised and/or I lost the key in a drive crash. Checking out people's keys can lead to some interesting connect the dots, such as the Alphonse-Tynes-Baugh connection, but isn't this the place for conspiracy theories . . . Regards, >>> R. Menzi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:09:34 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jesper_J=FChne?=" Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes >From: Phil A Posehn > >On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:25:52 +0200 "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jesper_J=FChne?=" > writes: > Some of my friends (who are Ph.D. in Physics) told me that >>the(snip) >>problem with a nuclear weapon is to "add the stuff together" >>you >>need a very precise and controlled explosion for it to work. Acoording >>to my >>friends this is very difficult. > >While this is technically true, as I understand it, making a critical , >or near critical, mass without the density required for an actual >explosion is much easier and VERY messy. >Phil. > Messy in what way? Jesper ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:17:21 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) > To: deltagreen@nocturne.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:47:36 -0700 > Subject: Re: DG: A Forgotten Horror) > From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) > Reply-to: Delta Green List > > On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:18:06 +0100 Ian/Cath Ford > writes: > >OK, you hit my button then guys. Ranting likely to follow... > > > >:: A whole bunch of stuff talked about nukes and chemical plants and > >the > >like... > I recall when the now closed nuclear plant in my area was still in the > planning stage the intended site was literally straddling the San Andreas > fault line and the proposed cooling system was liquid sodium. > > The ramifications of such a design screw-up would be lots of fun to > role-play. > Living through them would have been another question entirely! > > Phil Hello Phil and everyone else, Just a quick question about this, How does the system over in the USA allow the siting or even the consideration of siting a plant like that in an obviously hazardous area. Over in the UK the planning system admittedly would be sidestepped (the Government has reserved the right to determine certain applications i.e. The Department of Energy would be the planning authority in question) but even given this there would be at least a local enquiry, even a public enquiry where local people and anyone with a 'material consideration' not necessarily financial can be represented and heard at a planning inquiry. There could even be an appeal to the European Court on environmental grounds, (there would have to be an environmental impact assessment first). I understand that the American (USA) Planning system is a zoning system and once an area is zoned as long as development meets the zoning ordinances requirements all that is needed is a building permit, in the UK the right to develop has been nationalised to prevent innapropriate development (ie ripping up the kiddies playing field and building a chemical works, extreeme example there), is there a mechanism whereby developments such as a Nuclear Reactor can be opposed. One final question, given that zoning ordinances are agreed at, (I think), a local level why does anywhere zone for Nuclear reactor, I mean you can just see the meeting: "Gee, what should we do with that vacant lot on the cliff top?" "You mean the one next to the Faultline and the dormant volcano?" "Yeah, that's the one." "Hey lets zone it for a Nuclear Reactor!" "Yeah good idea." Just imagine Kroft Industries getting incentives from this lot to develop a new experimental facility in their county. 3 eyed fish anyone or just fish eyed kids. Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use mQGiBDUBfaERBADVEXULk4S2P+e3aXLD7i2KXWhL2hGcxnBE+tJkYayDBof1ZDn1 VFHdkjywIjuElHS1B9Ts68ePicSgzZslqEBw7xBRytO1yMyGYFDCTGc5SkNHhVUx dlknHQJx+G/t1ip31ByTsubsHJRhrkFkRH5juC3n/KOjj4XJ/lPoqFm2gQCg/8nb iL7UGvrYHR3hwwlNOF/7es0D/00/UwAnUjMXvg6v/187v+/8QE8Ow1L1e9xLETX1 jxJ+JASprEwi4bsrApzpyRaUgUP5JWRyBVvWr4DP+wC+pSA/1gk0waNOpunt3tZk rTk9DTF7fbZlphIAkQAZF/Y0DzbqeBu5ayuuPe1S16KThZ57pDxzVSAEUJRZTQPV 36MdA/4hHmK5kVm96hPJ6Jqhzxrl+nv9lF9Ck5iXLI4MDLJkbOzpPX/V1MMpd7qE mVmt0hyr4RhZBnPVN0eG0gQb8pm/Tf+8mg6bl1Tz6nvxlLP/yG1DK/LvrlhdTF6C lIjMceu1fIOQdVyR1wW4k9bRQtjbAEIZilz9bWsQgW0iMZrAqbQySmFtZXMgUm9i ZXJ0IEVkd2FyZCBUaG9tYXMgPFRob21hc1JAY2FyZGlmZi5hYy51az6JAEoEEBEC AAsFAjUBfaEECwMBAgAKCRBl18uccldLyC7TAJ41cXpcQ8666HY13XPw+rrP7Vve yACYueFAfNsaBrjml76XKCCvTzfnTrkCDQQ1AX2iEAgA9kJXtwh/CBdyorrWqULz Bej5UxE5T7bxbrlLOCDaAadWoxTpj0BV89AHxstDqZSt90xkhkn4DIO9ZekX1KHT UPj1WV/cdlJPPT2N286Z4VeSWc39uK50T8X8dryDxUcwYc58yWb/Ffm7/ZFexwGq 01uejaClcjrUGvC/RgBYK+X0iP1YTknbzSC0neSRBzZrM2w4DUUdD3yIsxx8Wy2O 9vPJI8BD8KVbGI2Ou1WMuF040zT9fBdXQ6MdGGzeMyEstSr/POGxKUAYEY18hKcK ctaGxAMZyAcpesqVDNmWn6vQClCbAkbTCD1mpF1Bn5x8vYlLIhkmuquiXsNV6TIL OwACAgf+KEEjO7KXJ6VAPWNe0fh553+QhIqko9XZ9Hcj5Ct6rSH0WId1BLxMSybz 12uUw5zSC1Mkvwn0jDJmStykY43WszvZUFauTcN9uQdbrRnCRBzaG0oipcfLycjK W5SR2Ap/drZXboPWUW9IllqtwYVuIzkznuHcjOtkBDgUT6ITyJQpZjHCjy1SgMVR A82Fsv+jUH9lezb14KwS7wp93mvWgkUjxOPiQznyg9MtqHIkvHNUrt+a8sFTMruA 3ii81GXs+W0Pq5S3ZRNk2MjEw43rSMZES1sSqJIefP1Y+cK/8P2XDW8afU8xdrVy ejeNWmTDLriMaoAHQPAdkyaCTD3K84kAPwMFGDUBfaJl18uccldLyBEC0i0AoNBL m5dSVwDxlpHOtmOSD3l3kTOSAJwJm2CPAWB+ZzG0Zk4F8rujBq0U4w== =JP+6 - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:26:57 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes > Messy in what way? > > Jesper > > Hello All, Well it won't go bang but it will go critical and give off more dangerous radiation than when it is sub-critical. During the Manhattan project in Los Alamos, a scientist, (can't remember his name if you want the full facts read "Genius", by James Gleick an autobiography of Richard Feynman), was putting bits of uranium I think together into a frame when he slipped forcing two sub-critical bits togeather, instant critical but not super-critical, (BANG), mass he died a few weeks later. On the subject of Mr Feynman, there's someone who could be a DG friendly. One of his favourite stories was how he cracked the safes containing the secrets of the atomic bomb, its all in the book. All he did was instead of assuming like most people that a safe's combination was exact and precise, he worked in error ranges. Therefore if the combination, was 25-25-25 the combinations 24-24-24 and 26-26-26 would work just as well because of mechanical slippage. He also assumed that people would use dates as combinations which reduced hugely the number of combinations possible. as he said all you needed was one or two inexplicable successes and everyone thinks you are a safecracker he used to carry some tools to make it look as if he was really trying hard where as all he was doing was trying a couple of hundred combinations at most. anyway I should be working. outahere Rob. J.R.E.Thomas. Science Library PC Room Advisor ext 6135 / 5128. MScII City and Regional Planning Student. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use mQGiBDUBfaERBADVEXULk4S2P+e3aXLD7i2KXWhL2hGcxnBE+tJkYayDBof1ZDn1 VFHdkjywIjuElHS1B9Ts68ePicSgzZslqEBw7xBRytO1yMyGYFDCTGc5SkNHhVUx dlknHQJx+G/t1ip31ByTsubsHJRhrkFkRH5juC3n/KOjj4XJ/lPoqFm2gQCg/8nb iL7UGvrYHR3hwwlNOF/7es0D/00/UwAnUjMXvg6v/187v+/8QE8Ow1L1e9xLETX1 jxJ+JASprEwi4bsrApzpyRaUgUP5JWRyBVvWr4DP+wC+pSA/1gk0waNOpunt3tZk rTk9DTF7fbZlphIAkQAZF/Y0DzbqeBu5ayuuPe1S16KThZ57pDxzVSAEUJRZTQPV 36MdA/4hHmK5kVm96hPJ6Jqhzxrl+nv9lF9Ck5iXLI4MDLJkbOzpPX/V1MMpd7qE mVmt0hyr4RhZBnPVN0eG0gQb8pm/Tf+8mg6bl1Tz6nvxlLP/yG1DK/LvrlhdTF6C lIjMceu1fIOQdVyR1wW4k9bRQtjbAEIZilz9bWsQgW0iMZrAqbQySmFtZXMgUm9i ZXJ0IEVkd2FyZCBUaG9tYXMgPFRob21hc1JAY2FyZGlmZi5hYy51az6JAEoEEBEC AAsFAjUBfaEECwMBAgAKCRBl18uccldLyC7TAJ41cXpcQ8666HY13XPw+rrP7Vve yACYueFAfNsaBrjml76XKCCvTzfnTrkCDQQ1AX2iEAgA9kJXtwh/CBdyorrWqULz Bej5UxE5T7bxbrlLOCDaAadWoxTpj0BV89AHxstDqZSt90xkhkn4DIO9ZekX1KHT UPj1WV/cdlJPPT2N286Z4VeSWc39uK50T8X8dryDxUcwYc58yWb/Ffm7/ZFexwGq 01uejaClcjrUGvC/RgBYK+X0iP1YTknbzSC0neSRBzZrM2w4DUUdD3yIsxx8Wy2O 9vPJI8BD8KVbGI2Ou1WMuF040zT9fBdXQ6MdGGzeMyEstSr/POGxKUAYEY18hKcK ctaGxAMZyAcpesqVDNmWn6vQClCbAkbTCD1mpF1Bn5x8vYlLIhkmuquiXsNV6TIL OwACAgf+KEEjO7KXJ6VAPWNe0fh553+QhIqko9XZ9Hcj5Ct6rSH0WId1BLxMSybz 12uUw5zSC1Mkvwn0jDJmStykY43WszvZUFauTcN9uQdbrRnCRBzaG0oipcfLycjK W5SR2Ap/drZXboPWUW9IllqtwYVuIzkznuHcjOtkBDgUT6ITyJQpZjHCjy1SgMVR A82Fsv+jUH9lezb14KwS7wp93mvWgkUjxOPiQznyg9MtqHIkvHNUrt+a8sFTMruA 3ii81GXs+W0Pq5S3ZRNk2MjEw43rSMZES1sSqJIefP1Y+cK/8P2XDW8afU8xdrVy ejeNWmTDLriMaoAHQPAdkyaCTD3K84kAPwMFGDUBfaJl18uccldLyBEC0i0AoNBL m5dSVwDxlpHOtmOSD3l3kTOSAJwJm2CPAWB+ZzG0Zk4F8rujBq0U4w== =JP+6 - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:41:12 +0200 From: "Florian Hanke" Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes Michael Layne wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:39:08 +0200 "Florian Hanke" > writes: > > > > > >David Farnell wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Lasertanks? Did they really build any? > >> > > > >(Un-) fortunately they stopped the project. The reason was: > >To penetrate steel of 1/2 inch thickness from about 1km you need the > >energy > >output of a nuclear power plant and direct the beam for about 3 > >seconds on the > >same spot. > > > >But laser can still be used as a weapon (especially by terrorists) for > >blinding. > >For that you need just a car battery - the only countermeasures > >against this are > >to give, for example, soldiers eyepatches so that one eye remains > >operational - > >pretty sarcastic, huh? > > > >Regards > >Florian Hanke > > > The US military may have already gotten around to issuing anti-laser > eye protection (protective goggles) to troops who may be exposed to > lasers (that includes range-finders, target designators, and the like). > Eye protection is likely to be part of the soldier's standard kit on > future high-tech battlefields. > Of course, eye protection is very important - but with lasers it's very hard to protect the eyes efficient. That's mainly because different lasers cover all visible electromagnetic wavelengths (light) and beyond... So if you go and try shield the eye from every possible laser, the soldiers won't be able to see! If not, they will very likely be blinded.Very nasty, these lasers! In the end, the most efficient and cheap protection is to patch one eye... Another possibility of protection would be that troops are given laser detectors, which activate the eye protection. Imagine this in warfilms: It's really quiet --- suddenly: "Lasers! Hit the dirt!, but still ---very quiet - some sort of paranoid soldiers... Regards Florian Hanke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:28:01 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Detective Music Greetings. It's the second time I'm sending this. The first sending (two days ago) never appeared. Is it my provider going to hell once again, or is it _them_ "sampling" our list? However, here we go again... Florian Hanke asked: > Does anyone know some "Detective" music? I hope you know what I >mean. I hope I got your meaning right... Try the jazz of the Charlie Haden Quartet West (published by Verve-Gitanes). Two CDs in particular, "Always Say Goodbye" and "Haunted Heart" are the most Chandleresque collections of music I ever heard - so much so that the Chandler/Marlowe connection is aknowledged in the liner notes. They are great as background music for setting a noirish mood. And they are great to listen to anyway! Cheers. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:58:57 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Detective Music Greetings. Florian Hanke asked: > Does anyone know some "Detective" music? I hope you know what I >mean. I hope I got your meaning right... Try the jazz of the Charlie Haden Quartet West (published by Verve-Gitanes). Two CDs in particular, "Always Say Goodbye" and "Haunted Heart" are the most Chandleresque collections of music I ever heard - so much so that the Chandler/Marlowe connection is aknowledged in the liner notes. They are great as background music for setting a noirish mood. And they are great to listen to anyway! Cheers. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:17:52 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes Oh, I don't know; giving a character, possibly wounded or on the point of insanity, a chance to save the world at the mere cost of their own life sounds like fairly player friendly game mastering to me and certainly gives one a way to end the scenario with a bang. And it conveniently gets rid of all the evidence as well. I was going to say that *I'd* never be that nice to my players but then I thought.......so what happens if "one little shock" puts the character carrying the Davy Crocket over the edge a little bit prematurely. Would certainly give the other players a chance for some intense role-playing....... Not for my Fargo campaign I think, but down the line. Added bonus; several of my players are weapons nuts and like big bang bangs. However, they've learned that when I let them have their toys it means they're *really* gonna need them. With any luck, if I gave them a nuke early in the scenario I could send the *players* running screaming around the room. Which is of course what I *really* GM for.........(heh heh heh) - --------- Josh ********************************************************************* James Miller wrote: > > > >Interesting discussion. > >Has anyone mentioned the "Davy Crocket" tactical nuclear rocket from > the > >early Viet Nam era? It was an early attempt at a small field nuclear > >divice. Since the blast radius was larger than the range, finding > someone > >dumb enough to fire one would have been a problem though. > > > >Letting one of your investigators have one and seeing if they check the > >specs could be fun! > > > >Phil > > > Hi all, > > I happen to be one of Phill's gamers. What he said is food for > thought. So is this..."Who gave the baby the gun?" > Do you realy want a gammer to have such a device? I have one word > for Phill.... Jullian. Need I remind you what he did with a sub? ') > This a warning to all CoC GMs, only place the device in games with > people who do not live by the axiom "Shoot first and ask questions > latter." > > Bye Bye for now > > TheDr4 aka JT Miller > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:35:42 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: Radioactive Deep One Hybrids If I were a deep one I'd be happy to supply my friends in New Innsmouth, CA with all the old sunken nuclear weapons they could want. It's just garbage off the floor to me. A couple of young'ns spend a couple of years in the Navy and New Innsmouth has a whole new source of income to replace its fading fishing fleet. Not to mention: "See what happens when those goverment bastards try and round us up to put in concentration camps for our religious beliefs NOW you sonnabitch!" - ---- Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:55:24 +0900 From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko Noyes) Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes >>While this is technically true, as I understand it, making a critical , >>or near critical, mass without the density required for an actual >>explosion is much easier and VERY messy. >>Phil. >> > >Messy in what way? Weeell, let's just say that detergent and hot water aren't going to do a thing for the stain. Jay - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum Terry Pratchett, "Interesting Times" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:11:39 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: Little Nukes Florian Hanke wrote: > But laser can still be used as a weapon (especially by terrorists) for blinding. > For that you need just a car battery - the only countermeasures against this are > to give, for example, soldiers eyepatches so that one eye remains operational - > pretty sarcastic, huh? > Recall that the guys were working on a "Non-Lethal" battlefield/Anti-Terrorist weapon, sort of an area-effect laser strobe , lotsa beams all around really fast. Blinds (permanently?) anyone caught looking in its direction. Wonder what ever happened to that project and what they did with the prototypes when they were finished. It's amazing what an agent in say the DOD Inspector General's Office might be able to turn up in some old warehouse somewhere. "Hey John, what's this......It looks like a big gold chest with angels on top of it......." - ------ Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:42:11 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: Accountability Something has been bugging me for a while now. Namely just how DG ops are covered up. I can see how this would work for FBI-agents (ADAM assigns mission, handles reports and generates false paper trails), but there would have to be someone (by "someone" I mean a DG "someone")in an ADAM-like position of power in every agency which contained DG agents (from Alien Intelligence, the DNI seems to fit this bill for ONI), so that time sheets, reports, medical leave etc. can be made to look like something inocuous. This could especially be a problem where friendlies are involved. Also, who pays the travel expenses for agents on an Op? This is not as stupid a question as it sounds: hotel credit card receipts, hire care records, airline seat allocations etc. would be the first thing that MJ-12 would be looking for to find out who's been snooping around their black operations. Also I seem to recall hearing somewhere that travel expenses of some Federal employees are open to public access. If this is the case it gives lots of potential leads to Saucerwatch, Phenomen-X, cultists etc. to bug the investigators with. Which also leads on to forensics. Are there clean-up teams to remove evidence (for example the blood stains that give non-typable DNA fingerprints.. or don't have DNA at all?) or is this handled by the agents themselves? Who picks the bullets out of the walls of the cultist's house to stop local law enforcement running a ballistics check and finding out that the round was fired by agent Smith's service automatic (when according to FBI records he was on holiday in Acapulco)? Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Secret black funds chanelled via DG-run accounts? Untraceable firearms/heavy weapons (explosives?) arsenals at safe houses? A DG-car pool? DG-pathology labs? Comments (Alphonse)? Or am I just stirring up a hornet's nest unneccesarily? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:03:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Terry Gwazdosky Subject: DG: Question about Greys Hey I just subscribed to the list, so be kind if this has already been covered. As I was reading the DG source book I noticed that some sample Greys had individual intelligence ratings, which were lower than the sample Mi-go. Does this mean that the Greys *COULD* potentially think for themselves? I know they were "built" by the Mi-go and are psychically controlled, but under some special circumstances could they operate on their own? I see them as being sort of like proto-matter slave humans mentioned in two of the scenerios from the book. Totally under control, but if that control was broken somehow... Providing the above is feasible I had an idea: What would happen if Shans started taking over Greys in order to get their hands on some of the advanced technology the Mi-go have been providing MJ-12 with? They could possibly steal back a ship, providing of course that the keeper decided the Mi-go had pulled another Roswell-type incident somewhere else (possibly with another country). This would allow them to escape Earth before it is destroyed and not have to deal with those pesky humans that keep drilling holes in their heads. ;) Let me know what you think. - -- Transmission ends. Be seeing you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:02:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "G. Wyckoff" Subject: Re: DG: Accountability > > Also, who pays the travel expenses for agents on an Op? This is not as > stupid a question as it sounds: hotel credit card receipts, hire care > records, airline seat allocations etc. would be the first thing that MJ-12 > would be looking for to find out who's been snooping around their black > operations. Also I seem to recall hearing somewhere that travel expenses of > some Federal employees are open to public access. If this is the case it > gives lots of potential leads to Saucerwatch, Phenomen-X, cultists etc. to > bug the investigators with. This isn't a stupid question _at all_. The answer that concerns me is, how long before MJ-12 or someone else _does_ figure out that the PC's are knee-deep in a conspiracy. That is, what is the servicable life of a character? > Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Secret black funds chanelled via > DG-run accounts? Untraceable firearms/heavy weapons (explosives?) arsenals > at safe houses? A DG-car pool? DG-pathology labs? Comments (Alphonse)? Or > am I just stirring up a hornet's nest unneccesarily? I wonder how much "black" money DG has to play with: how much of the NSA, CIA, or DIA budget which is not subject to item by item oversight that DG has access to. Is it even possible to calculate DG's annual operating budget in the same way as it is possible to do so for the CIA or NSA? As far as some of the physical evidence, why cover it up? If I got a sample of untypable DNA from some "blood" substance from a crime scene, I would assume that it was 1) bacterial contamination 2) due to some chemical which rendered the DNA unusable (such as something that depurinated it or 3) a really shitty job by the people at the crime scene. I would not think "this is alien DNA, ohmigod". As far as weapons, I can imagine that DG might have a source of untracable weapons, or that the individal agents do. Agents might have been in a position to pick up "throw down" pieces during their investigations, military people might have weapons captured from enemies, or DG friendlies that work at an arms factory might have access to guns with no serial numbers or serial numbers which have not yet been registered. For airline tickets and such, maybe DG has stolen blanks from travel agencies (several travel agents int he Chicagoland area just got ripped off for "blank" tickets, and the airlines have almost no way of knowing which tickets that come to them from travel agents are valid or not.) What about sources of cash for Delta Green agents? I imagine that several friendlies might be in a position to launder money stolen from cultists, or stolen from anyone that DG can get it from. Cars, boats, airplanes?? What about them? Well, the government has repossesed vehicles that they auction off all of the time; what if several of them were reported "destroyed in an accident" and never got to market. Or maybe someone rigs the auction so that a DG friendly or agent running a front company can buy a few things cheap. Maybe DG has a few hackers who have backdoors into car rental agency computers. Phony I.D.? Hell, forget phony, we have a friendly at the New York State DMV who will give you a real one, no problem. And health care, which has got to be the trickiest, even there, I am sure there are ways around it. "What? FBI Agent Smith who was on his vacation in Mexico was in a horrible car accident and is in the hospital there? Captain Graves who was on shoreleave in Thailand got shot by pochers while he was hiking in the jungle?" And what if someone got a whiff of wrongdoing?? Deny, deny, deny, slash and burn, coverup. One thing I get the sense of is that DG are about the last bunch of folks to give a shit if one _individual_ is at risk from the government. They are trying to save the world from monsters who would destroy everyone, damnit, one persons career means nothing. And if someone was going to expose the conspiracy, I can imagine that they would walk up dead. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:24:22 -0700 From: Christian Conkle Subject: DG: RE: Accountability Finally, a worthwile discussion.. Comments below: - ----------------------------------------------------- Christian Conkle Web Development Specialist Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory work: conklec@nwrel.org home: conkle@europa.com - ----------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu [SMTP:graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 9:42 AM > To: deltagreen@nocturne.org > Subject: DG: Accountability > > Something has been bugging me for a while now. Namely just how DG ops are > covered up. [Christian Conkle] (snip) One would have to assume that Delta Green maintains many more friendlies than agents. Accounting Clerks, Payroll officers, Supply Seargents, Motorpool attendants, etc. These people know of Delta Green and when they get a receive a requisition with a little green triangle sticker on it (easily removable, like stars in Kindergarten), they know to give it "the special treatment". > > Also, who pays the travel expenses for agents on an Op? [Christian Conkle] Again, these kinds of expenses would have to be routed through designated friendly accountants. He who controls the money controls the operation. > Which also leads on to forensics. Are there clean-up teams to remove > evidence (for example the blood stains that give non-typable DNA > fingerprints.. or don't have DNA at all?) or is this handled by the agents > themselves? Who picks the bullets out of the walls of the cultist's house > to stop local law enforcement running a ballistics check and finding out > that the round was fired by agent Smith's service automatic (when > according > to FBI records he was on holiday in Acapulco)? > [Christian Conkle] The extent of the Delta Green friendly network would have to be extensive. There could be friendly judges, forensic team investigators, etc. Of course, if the information is too outlandish, who would believe it? Director Johnson: "Agent Smith's weapon was responsible for an unexplained killing in Poughkeepsie? That's impossible! He's on holiday in Acapulco! Double-check those records. Nothing? That's what I thought!" > Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Secret black funds chanelled via > DG-run accounts? Untraceable firearms/heavy weapons (explosives?) arsenals > at safe houses? A DG-car pool? DG-pathology labs? Comments (Alphonse)? Or > am I just stirring up a hornet's nest unneccesarily? > [Christian Conkle] The problem with the friendly-network theory is that once the network becomes TOO large, it becomes nigh impossible to keep Delta Green a secret. There are, what, an estimated 74 agents or so in Delta Green? Let's say each agent required 5 friendlies on average to maintain the cover-up. That would be a LOT of friendlies. 370. Well, not that many, really, I guess. Plus, a lot of the friendlies would overlap. 1 well-placed Federal Judge is worth about 20 local judges. A Defense Department Expense Auditor is worth about 20 agency accountants or Payroll clerks. DoD memo to all payroll clerks: "All expense reports labelled DRX in the top corner will be forwarded to DoD Expense Auditor Lakely for processing." Working, as I am, in a corporate environment for a government contracter with some authority on the ability to create policies and procedures (at least in the Web area), I can tell you that the directive doesn't always have to make sense, you're just expected to follow it. And no one asks any questions anyway. As long as it doesn't affect them, who cares who had to handle the audit? Less work for the prole. Again, just a theory. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:44:55 -0700 From: Christian Conkle Subject: DG: RE: Question about Greys I know they were "built" by the Mi-go and are psychically controlled - ---- >GASP!< They ARE??!! Oh my gosh my GM's campaign makes so much SENSE now!! (smarm mode off, sorry) There aren't any unsuspecting players subscribed are there? If there are, BUGGER OFF! Us Keepers are talking Keeper stuff now. Your comments about Grey technology brings up a good point. (please allow for spoiler space in case any players didn't bugger off) How much effort do you think the Sky-Devils would put into the technology of a proxy-race? Maybe the saucers aren't capable of interstellar flight. It is said in "Whisperer in the Darkness" that the Fun Guys aren't totally of this space-time continuum, and that they can traverse the ether on their own, so why would they need saucers? The Greys need saucers as conveyances to get to, at least the moon and at most Pluto. If they even need to travel anywhere at all. Maybe MJ-12's been sold a lemon. I can see a bunch of of Mi-Go operating their Grey puppets from afar, interacting with MJ-12, making deals for the exchange of technology for cooperation, snickering to themselves.. "Interstellar? SURE! We got interstellar (snicker, snicker), Oh yeah. Look at this babe, isn't she a beaut? (snicker snicker), Low mileage, it was once owned by a little old Xiclotl from Alpha Centauri who used it just to go over to Barnard's Star. (snicker) and features? Let me tell you about this baby's features.." - ----------------------------------------------------- Christian Conkle Web Development Specialist Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory work: conklec@nwrel.org home: conkle@europa.com - ----------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Gwazdosky [SMTP:autumn@mint.net] > Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 10:04 AM > To: deltagreen@nocturne.org > Subject: DG: Question about Greys > > Hey I just subscribed to the list, so be kind if this has already > been covered. > > As I was reading the DG source book I noticed that some sample Greys had > individual intelligence ratings, which were lower than the sample Mi-go. > Does this mean that the Greys *COULD* potentially think for themselves? > I know they were "built" by the Mi-go and are psychically controlled, but > under some special circumstances could they operate on their own? > > I see them as being sort of like proto-matter slave humans mentioned in > two of the scenerios from the book. Totally under control, but if that > control was broken somehow... > > Providing the above is feasible I had an idea: What would happen if > Shans started taking over Greys in order to get their hands on some of the > advanced technology the Mi-go have been providing MJ-12 with? They could > possibly steal back a ship, providing of course that the keeper decided > the Mi-go had pulled another Roswell-type incident somewhere else > (possibly with another country). This would allow them to escape Earth > before it is destroyed and not have to deal with those pesky humans that > keep drilling holes in their heads. ;) > > Let me know what you think. > > -- > Transmission ends. > > Be seeing you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:43:41 -0700 From: CHRIS STRONG Subject: Re: DG: Accountability It is very easy to see how DG gets their money. ever see those expense logs for just about any government agency? NASA says that it cost them 2.5 billion dollars to erect a 20x40 storage shed for fire fighting equipment, they also had nails to be used during the building of the storage shed priced at 3.00 a nail, hammers at 250.00, at these prices that NASA says they purchase equipment for it just shows that they are using a lot of money for general government mischief. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:02:34 PDT From: "Christian Klepac" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Accountability > The problem with the friendly-network theory is that once the >network becomes TOO large, it becomes nigh impossible to keep Delta Green a >secret. There are, what, an estimated 74 agents or so in Delta Green? Let's >say each agent required 5 friendlies on average to maintain the cover-up. >That would be a LOT of friendlies. 370. Well, not that many, really, I >guess. Plus, a lot of the friendlies would overlap. 1 well-placed Federal >Judge is worth about 20 local judges. A Defense Department Expense Auditor >is worth about 20 agency accountants or Payroll clerks. I don't know about anyone else, but this point puts the role of Friendlies in a different perspective for me. It seems that with so many possible sources of compromise within an op, DG agents are really at the mercy of those who are covering their tracks. If MJ-12 is doing its job, then I'd wager that more than a few NPCs that the investigators depend on are actually double agents, and that's not counting moles who may be planted by "legitimate" intelligence agencies, foreign and domestic. I asssume that it's A CELL policy to run extensive background checks on all Friendlies, but... well, you can never be too paranoid. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:04:14 EDT From: PaganArt@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Question about Greys Terry, In truth, that stat was a mistake, copied from an earlier version of Convergence. The Greys according to the official Pagan Publishing stand have no INT stat, only POW. The INT is that of the Mi-Go controlling them. This was a mix-up, and it's corrected in the new DELTA GREEN Declassified Volume I- Machinations of the Mi-Go. But, as for your idea, it's your campaign, feel free to do whatever you want! We're only here to give you some ideas to run with! - -Dennis Detwiller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:10:25 -0700 From: CHRIS STRONG Subject: Re: DG: RE: Accountability As for the baliscitcs (SP?) on any agents gun it is probably registered in anothers name, or has been reported stolen a long time ago. And for the agents who use a gun that is registered in their own name, all they have to do is throw away the gun, and have a friendly put in a report dated a few weeks back saying it was stolen. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:43:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan P Keim Subject: DG: Lasers and Peter Gunn You can get the Peter Gunn theme on the original Blues Brothers soundtrack, which shouldn't be hard to find. As for a car battery to power lasers for blinding, I've 2 green laser pointers, both at 532 nm. One puts our about 5 milliwatts, the other over 8, sufficient to temporarily blind. They work on 2 AAA and one lithium ion (camera) batteries respectively. The 8 mW on the lithium battery is good for over 4 hours of continuous use. You should also be able to get 5 mW red laser pointers for about $35 that also run on triple or double A batteries, and be good to go. Munch who shines his green laser pointer on the sidewalk 7 floors below to see what strange things passers by do when they notive the bouncing green dot... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:53:56 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: RE: Accountability The folks at Pagan Publishing plan to include a chapter on DG tradecraft in COUNTDOWN--along with the kitchen sink, apparently--but I'll to briefly hit the high points. COs are encouraged to find their own solutions to these problems, as well. FIREARMS We strongly encourage agents to use weapons that aren't registered to them, and dispose of them after an op if the op required gunfire that drew police attention. EXPENSES We have a number of credit cards issued to paper individuals--people who do not exist except in documentation. These cards are circulated among COs as needed for ops. SOP is to make a sizable cash withdrawl from the card at the commencement of the op and to use the cash for all transactions. The funds...well, that's a long story. The short version is that over the decades, we have accumulated a sizable number of forgotten black-ops bank accounts. Invested shrewdly as the years have gone by, the funds have become substantial. And yes, the occasional $500 hammer helps out, though indirectly--agents in agencies who buy such hammers tend to know how that money moves around, and can dip into it under the guise of their normal duties. PAPERWORK As a rule of thumb, we either have someone at the agent's employer who can rig the paperwork, or we have someone at another agency who can rig the paperwork on their end to have the agent detached or loaned out to that other agency, when in truth they're going someplace else altogether. Keep in mind that in the real world, DG as a whole rarely handles more than one or two ops a month, sometimes none. Many agents don't have a single op in a given year, but they do other tasks such as digging up information at their employers or doing other such legwork. Our special sorts of situations just don't come up all that often, and we therefore can make them happen with the same limited set of resources. In your simulation exercises, you may have a much higher rate of events and a correspondingly greater need for infrastructure. And note that an "op" as defined above means a single short-term assignment. Some "ops" last for months or years, with numerous minor incidents along the way that can be handled in the course of the agent's normal duties, with only occasional need for a full-blown paperwork shuffle. And generally, at least one agent (or at least a friendly) on a given op really is there for official reasons; it's the others who he brings in that are there under false pretenses. In such cases, the "legit" agent can generate all the paperwork through his chain of command. Finally, don't underestimate the point made in the DG sourcebook or by a poster in this thread: when bureaucrats are told what to do by someone who seems to have the proper authority, they do it without thinking twice. It's just part of the daily routine for them. A dozen conspiracies cannot match the innocent sweeping-under-the-rug efforts of a single overworked paper-pusher who can't be bothered to read between the lines. be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #90 *******************************