From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #94 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, August 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 094 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:24:17 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: neutron bombs On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:29:13 -0500 (CDT) Don Juneau writes: >On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Graeme Price wrote: > >As detailed somewhat in SUM OF ALL FEARS, and more specifically in >FOOTFALL (Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle), it's possible to direct >and >use the radiation from the blast. In FOOTFALL (and some non-fiction >I've >read) the idea is to use a nuke to pump an x-ray laser... essentially, >redirecting and laseing the output. (I'm not really up on the theory, >but >again, I bet it can be found online. ) Your referance to "Footfall" reminds me...Remember project Orion and all of Freeman Dyson's other strange proposals for the peacetime use of nukes?? Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 00:17:45 PDT From: "James Miller" Subject: Re: DG: neutron bombs Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Graeme Price wrote: >>As detailed somewhat in SUM OF ALL FEARS, and more specifically in >>FOOTFALL (Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle), it's possible to direct >>and >>use the radiation from the blast. In FOOTFALL (and some non-fiction >>I've >>read) the idea is to use a nuke to pump an x-ray laser... essentially, >>redirecting and laseing the output. (I'm not really up on the theory, >>but >>again, I bet it can be found online. ) I don't know that much about the theory, but it would probably be a Gamma ray laser. My understanding, what little I have, is that nukes would emit gamma radiation. My thought is what would happen if Rancho Saco was hit with a nuke. Would the fallout increase or do you risk The China Syndrome. That should keep the city of Sac up all night. Your Nuclear Boogeman JT ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 06:16:07 -0500 From: Laurie Gerholz Subject: DG: Neutron bombs Hello, The following excerpt was taken from Carey Sublette's Nuclear Weapons FAQ. NWFAQ can be found in the High Energy Weapons Archive (an excellent source of information on nuclear weapons): http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/ 4.3.2 Neutron Bombs ("Enhanced Radiation Weapons") The design objective of the tactical neutron bombs developed in the 1960s and 70s was to create a low-yield, compact weapon that produced a lethal burst of neutrons. These neutrons can penetrate steel armor with relative ease, enabling the weapons to be effective against tanks and other armored vehicles which are otherwise highly resistant to the effects of nuclear weapons. A flux of several thousand rems were desired so that incapacitation of armored crews would be relatively rapid, with in several hours to a couple of days at most. In this exposure range death is inevitable. To minimize the effects of collateral damage, the effect of thermal radiation and blast outside the neutron kill radius, it was also very desirable to minimize the energy released in forms other than the neutron flux. C.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:13:45 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: Friendlies Checking over the recent thread on Accountability (excellent posts by the way, everyone!), a few thoughts occur to me. Thought I'd share them and see what other people think. Firstly, friendlies can be a valuable resource providing a lot of specialist knowledge, equipment or authority (academics, beaurocrats, influential citizens etc). Very useful for things like cover ups, reading risky mythos tomes (the ones in languages that agents aren't conversant in) and lab work. But not all friendlies will be so useful (some could be members of the criminal elements, jouranlists, "normal cops", undertakers [think about it] and physicians for examples). Many of the second group will not be aware of the true nature of DG, or even of it's existence at all (merely that FBI agents occasionally use them as "consultants"). One thought I have is that not all friendlies will be equally "disposable" if push comes to shove. For example, mythos-aware achaeologists fluent in Aklo, Sanscrit and ancient Hebrew will not exactly be commonplace (even less commonplace than DG Agents themselves: operating in the rarified atmosphere of Intelligence agencies as DG does, potential field agents are easy to find: people with the "right" specialities probably aren't). So it seems logical that there will be two "types" of friendly classification: The first (A-list) are the ones who have unique skills or irreplaceable experience who would be highly valuable (if not indispensable) in rebuilding the organization after a major crash. Or who have enough concrete proof of mythos activity to either be a major risk to the organization, or to be instrumental in vindicating it. They would likely be aware (to a greater or lesser extent) of DG's true nature. It is probable that A-cell would have emergency escape plans and secret identities already in place for these individuals (although the individuals themselves may not be aware of them). Data on these individuals is likely not held on the DG servers, and access to them may be restricted to certain cells (perhaps to A-cell). Dr. Fulani may be a good example of this type of friendly. The second type would be the "B-list" (or sacrificial lambs). These are the less vauable members of the organization and those operating on the periphery. They would certainly not be aware of the true nature of the organization and may have participated in perhaps only one operation (perhaps none and just in the DG files as potential recruits: or because they are particularly odious [example: George Naff the incompetant and officious FBI accountant who keeps querying ADAMS travel expenses... George is just an innocent cretin on the books to be a fall guy to take up time and act as a red herring if the Sh*t hits the fan: he _probably_ won't actually get convicted of anything because he _genuinely_ doesn't know anything {as an aside think what will happen when MJ-12 get hold of him: "Damn! Those Delta Green occultist bastards have found a way of programming thier agents so that our MK-ULTRA drugs don't work on them!" says Lepus as his gun clears it's holster}]). Data on these guys would be held on the most easily (but not too easily) compromised server, so that whilst the investigation into just what DG is and who is involved is starting, sacrificing the B-list would buy time to get the real core members of DG out of harms way. Wheels, within wheels. Comments? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:55:56 +0100 From: "Clairr O'Connor & Kevin Honan" Subject: DG: Accountability and the little people. "Got a friendly who's getting out of line? Get rid of him. It's easier to do this early when the mess is small......As for financing, where does all that money from drug cartels go? I'm sure hundreds of millions of dollars in various pharms each year goes missing from evidence rooms and captured frieghters into the hands of mysterious DG Men in Black, who then hand it over to Mafia "friendlies" at a decent enough discount. If the CIA was doing it and got caught, do you think DG couldn't do it and not get caught? Our game is a dirty one, my friends." snippity-snippity-snippity-snippity-snippity-snippity-snip-snip-snip "And that brings us to the other issue: what do we do about leaks? We stop them. Clean and cold. In most DG games in which I've been player or Keeper, the only thing that would distinguish most DG Agents from those slimy NRO-Speedwagon boys is ideology (NROD wants to steal the nasty alien secrets; DG wants to kill the nasty alien secrets) and resources (they have more than we do); their methods and sense of conscience tend to be about the same. They are men and women who have grown hard and dangerous and cruel for the sake of doing the greater good; and hopefully that does not itself cause them to lose track of the greater good. Delta Green agents are largely federal law enforcement, intelligence, and special forces types who have consciously decided to abandon operational ethics as necessary in pursuit of their goal: as a group they are very very well acquainted with blackmail, money laundering, evidence tampering, and murder. snippity-snippity-snippity-snippity-snippity-snippity-snip-snip-snip Just as a matter of personal opinion I'd have to disagree with that kind of attitude. If you're willing to murder (not "clean", "neutralise", "dispose of.." or "deal with") ordinary people just becuase they saw something they shouldn't, aren't you missing the point ? There is no point in destroying a village to save it. If people are that disposable, what are DG fighting for ? This is one reason that I don't play DG as written, people from the intelligence community are the last people who should end up fighting the Mythos. They care to much about "oversight" and "national security" and care far to little about peoples lives and families. "Opinions were divided as to notify the Massachussets State Police, and the negative finally one". The Dunwich Horror. Are the people who organised the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam* really to be trusted with that of work ? Does the fact that DG ostentably works for the US Govt. mean that the US interests are more important then the rest of humanity ? Would they summon a Dhole to cripple Cuba once and for all ? Once you go down the road of "removing" little people for the sake of "national security" its hard to get back before you up the ante beyond the point of no return. To qoute Graham Greene (a real life spook) "They haven't left us much to believe, have they ? - even disbelief. I can't believe in anything bigger than a home, or anything vaguer than a human being". Our Man in Havana. Regards, Eamon ("Depriving the enemy of the bullshit resource since 1980") * According to one Press Officer during the Vietnam War, the USAF weren't bombing civilian targets, they were "...depriving the enemy of the population resource". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 12:52:04 -0400 From: "R. Menzi" Subject: Re: DG: Friendlies >>> The first (A-list) are the ones who have unique skills or irreplaceable experience who would be highly valuable (if not indispensable) in rebuilding the organization after a major crash. <<< What you want to call them, they're still friendlies. They would not be in a position to be revealed easily, seeing as each member of each cell, with a group of friendlies with him, should be independent on an op and could not be easily traced to the others. That's how I play it, YMMV. If the shit hits the fan, getting out is the priority and restarting is not immediately in mind, though many agents would continue on a rogue basis. They should already be self-reliant in the field, as depending too much on DG will put the whole organization on the fast track to discovery. >>> The second type would be the "B-list" (or sacrificial lambs). These are the less valuable members of the organization and those operating on the periphery. They would certainly not be aware of the true nature of the organization and may have participated in perhaps only one operation <<< On the contrary, the disposables are the ones who were on ops but don't know about the rest of the conspiracy. That's alot of lambs. Agents don't know each other's names, neither do friendlies. Many friendlies are given recommendations and promotions, whatever is within DG's power, both to make them more valuable and a bigger target for an investigating committee. I'd say that one of the big lines between the friendlies and the real agents is that the real agents have plans for when the shit hits the fan and will generally get out while the friendlies, all of them, are left to distract the Senate and the press from the real agents, who are safely out of the firing line. That's why they try to get friendlies in positions of power and why pull is not the only factor in recruiting real agents; if you get their pull as a friendly, it's better to leave them as a big decoy than a big liability. As far as friendlies being able to take down the conspiracy, see my earlier posts about intracell and intercell collaboration (nonexistent and rare, respectively) for the reasons why it would be a dead end. Only a few agents would be found and they would not know the identity of their cell leader, the only one who could even begin to compromise other cells. I won't waste your bandwidth with a repost. Regards, >>> R. Menzi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:33:45 -0400 From: "Eric Brennan" Subject: DG: Re: Accountability and the little people. - -----Original Message----- From: Clairr O'Connor & Kevin Honan To: Delta Green List Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 1:13 PM Subject: DG: Accountability and the little people. > Just as a matter of personal opinion I'd have to disagree with that kind >of attitude. If you're willing to murder (not "clean", "neutralise", >"dispose of.." or "deal with") ordinary people just becuase they saw >something they shouldn't, aren't you missing the point ? There is no point >in destroying a village to save it. If people are that disposable, what are >DG fighting for ? This is one reason that I don't play DG as written, >people from the intelligence community are the last people who should end >up fighting the Mythos. They care to much about "oversight" and "national >security" and care far to little about peoples lives and families. I'm curious as to how exactly you play Delta Green without the intelligence community. Aren't you just playing Cthulu Now without it? This isn't to slight you or your opinions...I'm just curious. As to your opinions, I think the hazy world of the Int Comm is a neat place to play. It seems to me that combining a world of moral greys with psychological absolutes is a fun angle on the (to me, anyway) tired 1920's Cthulu campaigns. Since my characters is one of the ones quoted, I feel like I have to respond to your statements. As for the snuffing of innocent lives, my character was admittedly in the minority in the group, and was supposed to represent the "nasty underside" of DG, rather than the norm. The things you weren't supposed to think about. As for how I played the character, think Leon out of the "Professional" rather than E. Howard Hunt. My character had problems with what he was doing, but if you look at what you're fighting..."Batlle not with monsters lest..." > "Opinions were divided as to notify the Massachussets State Police, and >the negative finally one". The Dunwich Horror. The same mindset applies to DG. > Are the people who organised the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians >in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam* really to be trusted with that of work ? Maybe. Depends on how you look at the conflict. I'm sure there's DG cells that firmly believe in scorched earth, especially after meeting any variety of chthonic baddies from the bottom of the sea/antarctic wastes/depths of space. >Does the fact that DG ostentably works for the US Govt. mean that the US >interests are more important then the rest of humanity ? Our interests in Britain seem to preclude that, and the fact the US government seems to profit only marginally from DGs investigations. MJ12 are the ones looking to US interests. >Would they summon >a Dhole to cripple Cuba once and for all ? Once you go down the road of >"removing" little people for the sake of "national security" its hard to >get back before you up the ante beyond the point of no return. Agreed. that's one of the dangers that DG faces in some campaigns. In others, it's just an alliance of doctors and investigators. > To qoute Graham Greene (a real life spook) "They haven't left us much to >believe, have they ? - even disbelief. I can't believe in anything bigger >than a home, or anything vaguer than a human being". Our Man in Havana. One of the problems of the profession. Now contrast that with the knowledge that the price of stopping the Mythos is that type of malaise, and you've got a character concept. (But not for the entire group, mind.) > Regards, > Eamon > ("Depriving the enemy of the bullshit resource since 1980") Be Seeing You, Agent WALLACE aka Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:32:33 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: Friendlies On Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:13:45 -0400 graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) writes: >One thought I have is that not all friendlies will be equally >"disposable" >if push comes to shove. For example, mythos-aware achaeologists fluent >in >Aklo, Sanscrit and ancient Hebrew will not exactly be commonplace >(even >less commonplace than DG Agents themselves: operating in the rarified >atmosphere of Intelligence agencies as DG does, potential field agents >are >easy to find: people with the "right" specialities probably aren't). >So it >seems logical that there will be two "types" of friendly >classification: In general this seems eminently logical and useful...How would a covert group that had its genesis in the intelligence community ever have thought of it? Seriously though, Great idea! Phil _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:39:11 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: DG: A most interesting message... Hey Folks, I just got this message from another mailing list to which I belong. Take a look.... - -Jim Hi folks, need some help on interpreting a radar phenomenon here. When I awoke this morning I checked the ILM radar to see if the relatives were going to get any wet weather this morning at Long Beach, NC, and I noticed something odd - a circle of data formed and expanded east of the radar (near Wilmington). I dismissed it as chance until I saw similar things taking place in various areas in the Carolinas and in fact all over the Southeast, according to the WSI Regional, and none of them were centered on the radar like bad data usually is. I've seen many a funny thing on radar, from ground clutter to anomalous propagation to mountains, birds, gust fronts, you name it. But I hadn't seen this before today. Please check out the following page where I have posted some loops of the images and let me know if you can explain this phenomenon. I will also be asking on the weather newsgroups. Thanks. The best example (GSP this morning) loads on the page, and there are links to other sites and other radar products (r1,r2,r3,r4,v1,cr). I also have some individual products from 10:58Z for GSP and the stills of all the animations if you need them. Notice on the GSP an "explosion" to the SE, WSW, and NE of the radar. These are what I am talking about. In the "regional" directory, the first image shows the WSI Regional which shows a number of these circles throughout the SE US (although WSI's Quality Control Program wiped some of them out). http://www.weatherwatchers.org/temp/radarwhat/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:02:00 -0700 From: paposehn@juno.com (Phil A Posehn) Subject: Re: DG: Accountability and the little people. "In our suposed idological rectitude, we sacrificed our compassion to the great god indifference. We protected the strong against the weak\, and we perfected the art of the public lie. We made enemies of decent reformers and friends of the most disgusting potentates. And we scarcely paused to to ask ourselves how much longer we could defend our society by these means and remain a society worth defending." "The Secret Pilgrim" by John LeCarre' _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:03:20 -0700 From: Christian Conkle Subject: DG: "Whatever it takes" (was RE: Accountability and the little people .) Regarding the difference between NRODelta and Delta Green (hmm, both are Delta, is there a cosmic connection?), Delta Green Agents' willingness to do "whatever it takes" to get the job done, and it's attitude towards the "little people", I'd like to add my 1/50th of a dollar. The biggest difference I've seen between NROD and DG is, as someone else pointed out, goals. MJ-12's goal is the exploitation of this extraterrestrial resource. They're willing to do "whatever it takes" to ensure they maintain a monopoly on this resource. No act or crime is beyond consideration in the perpetuation of this monopoly. DG's goal, on the other hand, is the elimination of paranormal threats to ensure (take your pick): A) The Sovereignty of the United States Government or B) The safety and well-being of the Citizens of the United States or C) all of the above. This is an important distinction. If A), then the government takes priority over it's citizens and agents are willing to do "whatever it takes" to ensure the Government's continuation. No act or crime is beyond consideration in the perpetuation of the U.S. Government. This is the John Erlichman point of view. The point of view that puts very little difference between DG and NROD. These people believe you must invalidate the Constitution in order to save it. A very cynical paradigm but possibly more realistic. If B) or C), then the rights of Joe Citizen are important. DG agents in this paradigm must work within at least a moral framework if not a legal one. The Constitution is important to these people. The goal is more optimistic, possibly unrealistic. Agents will be more principled and idealistic. They might break and enter a building to steal secrets, but they won't torture a suspect for information or murder someone for knowing too much. In reality, Delta Green agents will likely be a mixture of both. Delta Green as an organization might have an "official" view (how official can one get in an unofficial unorganized organization), and might even go so far as to recommend certain restraints in bahavior to it's agents in one instance but then look the other way in another. Most organizations have a charter or a procedural manual for these kinds of issues. Unfortunately, the nature of DG prohibits such tangible evidence from being circulated to it's agents. I have a feeling that if DG has one, there's probably only one copy and it's under Alphonse's arm with the Manuscript de Maniscrotto. Perhaps a DG extranet with really really black ice security might be necessary. Heh. - ----------------------------------------------------- Christian Conkle Web Development Specialist Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory work: conklec@nwrel.org home: conkle@europa.com - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:21:31 -0400 From: "Eric Brennan" Subject: DG: Re: A most interesting message... Jim, what list did you get this off of? Is there any logical explanation? Looks like El Nino to me. Agent WALLACE aka Eric - -----Original Message----- From: Jimmie Bise, Jr. To: Delta Green List Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 1:53 PM Subject: DG: A most interesting message... >Hey Folks, > I just got this message from another mailing list to which I belong. >Take a look.... > >-Jim > > > > >Hi folks, need some help on interpreting a radar phenomenon here. > >When I awoke this morning I checked the ILM radar to see if the >relatives were going to get any wet weather this morning at Long Beach, >NC, and I noticed something odd - a circle of data formed and expanded >east of the radar (near Wilmington). I dismissed it as chance until I >saw similar things taking place in various areas in the Carolinas and in >fact all over the Southeast, according to the WSI Regional, and none of >them were centered on the radar like bad data usually is. > >I've seen many a funny thing on radar, from ground clutter to anomalous >propagation to mountains, birds, gust fronts, you name it. But I hadn't >seen this before today. Please check out the following page where I >have posted some loops of the images and let me know if you can explain >this phenomenon. I will also be asking on the weather newsgroups. >Thanks. > >The best example (GSP this morning) loads on the page, and there are >links to other sites and other radar products (r1,r2,r3,r4,v1,cr). I >also have some individual products from 10:58Z for GSP and the stills of >all the animations if you need them. > >Notice on the GSP an "explosion" to the SE, WSW, and NE of the radar. >These are what I am talking about. In the "regional" directory, the >first image shows the WSI Regional which shows a number of these circles >throughout the SE US (although WSI's Quality Control Program wiped some >of them out). > >http://www.weatherwatchers.org/temp/radarwhat/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:22:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "G. Wyckoff" Subject: Re: DG: A most interesting message... Jim wrote: > > Hey Folks, > I just got this message from another mailing list to which I belong. > Take a look.... > have posted some loops of the images and let me know if you can explain > this phenomenon. I will also be asking on the weather newsgroups. > http://www.weatherwatchers.org/temp/radarwhat/ That's bizarre. If they find out what it is, let us know, would ya? Meanwhile, I'm saving those animations for use at a future game. They'd make a great prop. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 15:32:07 -0500 From: William Timmins Subject: Re: DG: Accountability and the little people. Phil A Posehn wrote: > "In our suposed idological rectitude, we sacrificed our compassion to the > great god indifference. We protected the strong against the weak\, and we > perfected the art of the public lie. We made enemies of decent reformers > and friends of the most disgusting potentates. And we scarcely paused to > to ask ourselves how much longer we could defend our society by these > means and remain a society worth defending." > > "The Secret Pilgrim" by John LeCarre' > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] EXCELLENT quote, and a good thought about DG in general. Part of the horror of Delta Green is the very modernist spin on the Lovecraftian SAN loss. That is... the slow and slippery slope. Not of SAN, but of morality. It is very much a case that to fight the monsters, one can (and perhaps must) become one. Which is quite horrible. ;) This all bears very strongely on my Endtime stuff. Hopefully I'll have it done in a week or two (last two weeks were much too busy to get any decent writing done, feh) - -Will ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 16:59:03 -0500 From: "Charles O. Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: More craziness... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------85A740528DE89134B7078A21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lech Von Oxen wrote: > Hi, again. > > I was watching Force 10 From Navarone, with Harrison Ford and Robert > Shaw (don't forget Carl Weathers -- we love you Apollo!), and was > reminded of a campaign idea I once had for Cyberpunk 2020. I think it > could be well-adapted to DG. > > Three characters -- in CP 2020 a solo, netrunner, and media -- are > blackmailed/bribed/otherwise coerced into working for an unnamed entity. > Their duties include tracking down paranormal and occult occurences and > recording them for a private collection. Think of the really wealthy guy > in Contact who funds a second space ship and lives in consistent > altitude in his jet; an eccentric who does not fear the unexplained and > in fact searches for a clue to the afterlife. > > In DG, a covert operations group (essentially a three-member cell) could > find themselves under the thumb of a mysterious benefactor who, through > keeping them alive (by some means, perhaps Vietnam veterans implanted > with some tracking/suicide device?), gets to send them to infiltrate > cults and bring back ancient artifacts and tomes. These guys (tough guy, > techie, and scientist for me -- pick your own lot) get to run covert, > government-sanctioned assaults on poor, unsuspecting cultists, quietly > sneaking in and stealing their copy of Cultes de Ghoules while the > innocent worshipers orgy in the feast of Shub-Niggurath. > > Or take it a step further and run it as a renegade DG cell, who is > actively sabotaging both DG and MJ12 operations in hopes of drawing the > organizations into exposing themselves. Think: using Glovecleaners to > desiminate Mythos chaos into the public, forcing DG to appear, bringing > in MJ12, then offing both teams in a double-cross-over-patchwork. > > Hell, just get the players to believe they're the good guys... > > Call me Lech. You mean you don't false-flag your players? I do it all the time. I did it in Star Wars. - -- Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net - --------------85A740528DE89134B7078A21 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Charles O. Baucum Jr. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Charles O. Baucum Jr. n: ;Charles O. Baucum Jr. email;internet: cobaucum@meta3.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------85A740528DE89134B7078A21-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:10:08 -0500 From: "Charles O. Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Spec-Ops & UN This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------151731C4D98060CF782C3709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shane Ivey wrote: > >> > There were reports around last year, of spec-ops units being folded into > one "hunter" group for snatching war-criminals in Bosnia, etc. Can't > remember if they actually did anything, but it was a UN thing. > << > > According to US News & World Report, Special Operations counterterrorism > troops from SEAL Team 6 were sent over in 1995 (concealed in big supply > drums, even) to form a strike force with CIA officers in order to track > down and apprehend Bosnian-Serbian war criminals. Delta Force commandos > followed in 1997, joining a now-massive international operation led by > the US. > > "In two separate operations, eight U.S. troops belonging to the U.S. > Army's Delta and Torn Victor units put on French uniforms and traveled > to Pale, hoping to conduct surveillance on Karadzic while his guard was > down." > Have you checked out the French soldiers' uniforms? They're Foreign Legion. > Of course, this may just be so much disinformation to cover up the fact > that among the recent Delta Force troops were a number of federal law > enforcement and intelligence officers who were then covertly routed > through Bosnian Muslim resistance channels to Saudi Arabia and Egypt in > pursuit of the so-called "Black Pharaoh Cult" in top secret Operation > RAMSES, but that's another story. > > If you want the "official" story, check out > http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/980706/6pifw.htm > > Shane Ivey > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm - -- Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net - --------------151731C4D98060CF782C3709 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Charles O. Baucum Jr. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Charles O. Baucum Jr. n: ;Charles O. Baucum Jr. email;internet: cobaucum@meta3.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------151731C4D98060CF782C3709-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:20:29 -0500 From: "Charles O. Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: R'lyehan, whoa-oh, radio. (Got a barbequed I-tha-qua...?) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------9247EB7C62389F630C3B5823 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shane Ivey wrote: > If we have any radio/electromagnetics experts on the list, I have a > question which you could maybe explain in a "physics for idiots" sort of > way. > > Why is it that radio does not work underwater? Is it a matter of > conductivity, that water is less conducive to the transference of energy > than is air? Or is it something else which I have managed to forget in > the years since I took introductory chemistry? > I'm no expert but I'll share what I think I know. Radios will work under water, there are radios for SCUBA divers. But water is a good absorber of radio waves. The range gets really short. I've heard rumors of the ELF Grid, an Extremely Low Frequency communication system for talking to submarines. Apparently low frequency waves penetrate water better than higher frequency waves do. I believe that light behaves much the same way under water. That is about all I think I know on the subject. Verify before betting real money on any of it. > "What does this have to do with Delta Green," you ask? Well, a couple > of things. > > First off, I'm a staunch believer in describing Lovecraftian > supernatural events in terms of physical phenomena, so I've always been > curious about Lovecraft's aside in "The Call of Cthulhu" where he > explains Cthulhu's telepathic silence as being due to his submersion in > the sea and compares it, if I recall correctly, to radio. > > Secondly, I'd like to concoct some "Marvel Universe"-quality > quasi-scientific descriptions of Grey-adapted technology which may > enhance or perfect underwater remote communications. > > Bo knows social sciences--Bo don't know physics... ;-) > > Shane Ivey > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6580/dg.htm - -- Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net - --------------9247EB7C62389F630C3B5823 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Charles O. Baucum Jr. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Charles O. Baucum Jr. n: ;Charles O. Baucum Jr. email;internet: cobaucum@meta3.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------9247EB7C62389F630C3B5823-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:37:29 -0500 From: "Charles O. Baucum Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Accountability This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------E113CEC0559B1253944BD5C6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Graeme Price wrote: > Something has been bugging me for a while now. Namely just how DG ops are > covered up. I can see how this would work for FBI-agents (ADAM assigns > mission, handles reports and generates false paper trails), but there would > have to be someone (by "someone" I mean a DG "someone")in an ADAM-like > position of power in every agency which contained DG agents (from Alien > Intelligence, the DNI seems to fit this bill for ONI), so that time sheets, > reports, medical leave etc. can be made to look like something inocuous. > This could especially be a problem where friendlies are involved. > > Also, who pays the travel expenses for agents on an Op? This is not as > stupid a question as it sounds: hotel credit card receipts, hire care > records, airline seat allocations etc. would be the first thing that MJ-12 > would be looking for to find out who's been snooping around their black > operations. Also I seem to recall hearing somewhere that travel expenses of > some Federal employees are open to public access. If this is the case it > gives lots of potential leads to Saucerwatch, Phenomen-X, cultists etc. to > bug the investigators with. > > Which also leads on to forensics. Are there clean-up teams to remove > evidence (for example the blood stains that give non-typable DNA > fingerprints.. or don't have DNA at all?) or is this handled by the agents > themselves? Who picks the bullets out of the walls of the cultist's house > to stop local law enforcement running a ballistics check and finding out > that the round was fired by agent Smith's service automatic (when according > to FBI records he was on holiday in Acapulco)? > > Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Secret black funds chanelled via > DG-run accounts? Untraceable firearms/heavy weapons (explosives?) arsenals > at safe houses? A DG-car pool? DG-pathology labs? Comments (Alphonse)? Or > am I just stirring up a hornet's nest unneccesarily? > > Graeme > > graemep@immag.mcg.edu These are simple tradecraft issues. The CIA has been running drugs and weapons for decades to fund black operations. The KGB attempted to destabilize our culture with drugs while funding terrorist organizations with the profits (even Readers Digest reported on that). Untraceable firearms are as close as the local flea market or pawn shop. Heavier arms can be stolen from National Guard armories. The majority of illegal automatic weapons on the street today come in the country with the drug trade or are stolen from the National Guard. Rental cars are quick transportation and are safer and more reliable than auto theft (but don't rule out stealing a car, the police would have to trip over a stolen car to find it). And lets not forget the power of networking. You are only seven people away from knowing anything you want to know. I'm only six people away from the guy who carries the launch codes for nuclear missiles, and I'm just a drafter for the phone company. DG people are plugged into the whole intel community, they can be expected to know someone who knows someone who can do almost anything. Read any of Richard Marcinko's books to find out how to run a black operation on a shoestring. It's so simple it's scary. - -- Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur cobaucum@meta3.net - --------------E113CEC0559B1253944BD5C6 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Charles O. Baucum Jr. Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Charles O. Baucum Jr. n: ;Charles O. Baucum Jr. email;internet: cobaucum@meta3.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------E113CEC0559B1253944BD5C6-- ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #94 *******************************