From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #250 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Friday, December 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 250 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:08:21 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: S**t! It's the Bishof! On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Mark McFadden@warnerbros.com wrote: > Arnold Shwarzenegger IS Axl Gotterdammerung. Folks, I think we have a winner... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [seven is darker] [9 9 2 0 .2 2 9 9 8 9 2 1 2 .3 3 4] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:15:17 -0500 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: Emerald Hammer At 08:58 PM 12/17/98 -0500, the Maninblack wrote: >On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Crossingham, Adam wrote: >> Daniel Harms wrote: >> <<< Another consideration: How much freedom do the investigators have to >> influence what happens? As I see it, there are twelve tomes mentioned >> here that are being assembled. What happens if Dan Harms, international >> man of mystery, drops through the skylight, rappels down, and snatches >> the Turner Codex? Does this affect the campaign later? This campaign >> is laid out in an episode-to-episode format, which should alleviate some >> of the difficulties, but it might be good to provide some back doors for the >> Keeper in case the investigators head to La Estancia early, or cause an >> international incident, or kill Belial, or... >>> >While I could see all of the above occuring, my style of gamemastering has >always been Hidden Railroad Conductor of Doom (TM). Thus Dan >"International Man of Mopery" Harms would become the victim of a >robbery-homicide. The investigators would all be horribly killed at La >Estancia. And Belial would be ressurected if needed in the future, or some >other character would be substituted. No problem there, save for the first example (and not because I'm particularly enamoured of Dan Harms). If the investigators keep having the books taken away whenever they find them, they may start feeling railroaded - especially if they find out that the acquisition of the books is the main concern of the Karotechia. I'd let them have 'em, and assume the Karotechia can get them elsewhere. If the investigators do succeed enough to amass a trove of tomes, then they can play out an interlude in which the Karotechia tries to raid the place where they're keeping them. (Nazis in the Library of Congress - how does that sound?) >I was considering this from the beginning. I always loved the section on >leads to other investigations. I usually do this in every campaign I run, >in fact. I'm just waiting on more development of the individual chapters >before I start weaving the threads together. Cool! I always liked Masks' presentation of that material. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "Beautifully preserved, is the enduring reptile whose ancestors crawled landward eons ago to spawn." - a museum guidebook ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:11:00 -0800 From: "Mark McFadden@warnerbros.com" Subject: DG: Leiber, Lankhmar, Dreamlands Hey all, I was just looking at Davide's Fritz Leiber page (not far from The Ice Cave) and some references there reminded me of the current Dreamlands threads and such. To summarize: Fritz Leiber was a very late member of the Lovecraft Circle. When he was first creating Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and their world, the original conceptions were set in a world that strongly resembles the Dreamlands. clipped from Davide's site: "According to tradition, various Lovecraftian references were excised from the printed version of the stories (expecially "Adept's gambit") on Lovecraft's suggestion." So, the city of Lankhmar is in the Dreamlands. Kewl. But, better than that, Leiber himself (in an autobiographical section of "The Ghost Light") states that Lankhmar is and always has been a fantasy version of Los Angeles. Hey! My town! "Rollin' down the Imperial Highway With a big nasty redhead at my side Santa Ana winds blowin' hot from the north And we was born to ride Roll down the window, put down the top Crank up the Beach Boys, baby Don't let the music stop We're gonna ride it till we just can't ride it no more From the South Bay to the Valley From the West Side to the East Side Everybody's very happy 'Cause the sun is shining all the time Looks like another perfect day I love L.A. (We love it) I love L.A. (We love it)" Ahem. Sorry. Mark McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:10:53 EST From: DHammann@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: DG: EH: Karotechia notes In a message dated 12/17/98 10:24:16 PM, you wrote: <<(Concise Oxford... I don't want to get into the old spelling debate again) of the word "Aryan" is: "Aryan (a) of the original Indo-European language; of it's speakers or their descendents. - n: Aryan person". This definition may include the inhabitants of a large number of countries (whilst my anthropology is rather poor, I suspect this includes much of the middle east and, perhaps, central asia). It would seem that the Nazis ("huuuuuck! Phaaa!" - spits on ground!) applied a rather selective approach to who they classed as "Aryan">> The National Socialists adopted an old theosophist belief that there was once a great super-society of supermen, the Aryans, living before recorded history. After some great cataclysm the survivers settled in Tibet then spread westward into Europe. Instead of Atlantis, as the Theosophists believed, the Nazis claimed their Aryan Supermen ancesters came from a northern Atlantic continent, Ultima Thule. Over the centuries the Aryan society decayed due to corruption from Christianity, and asssociation with sub-humans races, who they believed were the ones evolved from apes. Hitler only half believed it, but it made a good historical background for his racial doctrines. Himmler was a true believer, though. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:33:14 -0500 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: EH: Karotechia notes Putting in my rant against non-Aryan Bischofes (as if anyone cares): At 08:40 PM 12/17/98 -0500, the Mainblack wrote this in hopes that I would ignore it: >This ridiculous assertion displays a shocking lack of familiarity with how >the Nazis ran things. As is well documented, the Nazi racial doctrine was >just another hypocritical tool for control. Yet, as with any other ideological category, the racial doctrine took on a life of its own. It would have been difficult for the Nazi racist ideology to gain such a hold on the populace if it were seen simply as an excuse to gain power. When the Nazi Party declared these individuals Aryans, people might have recognized that some partiality was being exercised, but they hardly stopped thinking of Aryan as a real category. I mean, none of us would believe this would take place in a real-life racist group: LEADER: I present to you men our new Bischofe, who happens to be black, but trust us, he's an honorary Aryan. I want you to follow his commands unswervingly, even if it means your own death. MEN: Well, gee, he's black, and we're of the purest Prussian ancestry. It would be better, of course, that we keep ourselves alive so as to breed and keep the population from mongrelization. But since he's an honorary Aryan... (shrugs) Oh, what the hell, let's buy him a stein, and then to war. Sieg heil! Even if the Karotechia heads felt that these individuals were worthy of being treated with respect, the rank and file, for whom being Aryan is a self-evident category with little or no leeway, would probably rebel at being directed by an "impure" individual. If the heads were still going to use these people, they would most likely do it on an informal basis, keeping it quiet from the rank and file. >The pure shock value is another. But this factor has to be balanced against the player believability factor. It's good for the initial shock, but then the players who aren't familiar with the intricacies of Nazi racial policy will probably say, "Huh? What's going on?" The game may continue with this confusion, or shut down temporarily for an impromptu history lesson. At any rate, some of the magic of the session will probably be lost. In addition, Nazis are some of the best ready-made villains out there precisely because of their rabid racism. The mere fact that these individuals are Nazis makes them excellent targets for guilt-free pre- emptive strikes - after all, we know what they'll do if they don't. If they start accepting everyone, their appeal drops. If the goal is to scare the investigators by having their enemies serve as a mirror of themselves, it might be possible to pull it off. >Finally, the point during EH is to eventually transform >the Karotechia into "just another protest group." This process of >transformation is essential to the horror. The gradual and inevitable >realization of Investigators that the Karotechia is, like all other >things, doomed to the total corruption of the mythos. My interpretation of the Delta Green setting, on the other hand, is that it's based on the proposition that we're all human. It is precisely because we're human, and lust, hate, and covet, that we are willing to use the Mythos to do horrible things to each other, selling our own souls and that of humanity to keep ourselves satisfied and vindicated. At any rate, if the Nazis are no longer dedicated to their racist agenda, then we have to ask what they are dedicated to, and what holds this group together. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "Beautifully preserved, is the enduring reptile whose ancestors crawled landward eons ago to spawn." - a museum guidebook ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:31:00 -0800 From: "Mark McFadden@warnerbros.com" Subject: Re: DG: EH: Karotechia notes In the latest chapter of the racist Nazis/Rainbow Coalition Karotechia pisserama, MiB eructated mightily in the shape of: >This ridiculous assertion displays a shocking lack of familiarity >with how the Nazis ran things. As is well documented, the Nazi racial >doctrine was just another hypocritical tool for control. Gonna have to see that documentation for myself bra. I believe a careful reading would indicate that many high-ranking Nazis, and certainly many high-ranking officers didn't believe the doctrine. Privately. But, the inner circle did. The Nazi party was founded by occult whackadoos with strange beliefs and pretensions of scholarship. As for how they ran things? Let's see. In spite of sound military advice, Calais was defended rather than Normandy because the Fuehrer dreamed the invasion would land at Calais. In spite of sound military advice (from Prussian War College alumni) Germany waged the war on two fronts, and continued to drive forward against Russia in winter in spite of Napolean's example because the Fuehrer said so. And on and on. I'm somewhat bemused at the idea of the Warsaw Ghetto being a hypocritical exercise for controlling the German people. Ditto Auschwitz, Dachau and Treblinka. I'm sorry, but the people involved were just a little too enthusiastic and creative in their tasks to be going through the motions. But enough. Some see all the Nyarly-inspired conspiracies eventually becoming one indistinguishable mass of twitching cultists all worshipping Nyarlathotep in one way or another. Scary. I see all the Nyarly-inspired conspiracies continuing in ignorance, all being told what they want to hear, all seeing the world through their own filters and all with their own private agendas, unaware of their status as deluded dupes, pawns and food. Imagine Hitler in his bunker, still convinced (and perhaps assured by something) that this whole D-Day thing was a minor setback and soon the special weapons and aircraft would save the day. But only if he doesn't compromise on racial issues. Which is the greater conflict? All the conspiracies merge into one generic ecumenical plot against us, or all the conspiracies against us and each other? Mark McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:40:20 -0600 (CST) From: Tenebrous Technologies Subject: DG: Dhamballah-Intro She asked me what was next. I brought her home from the club; adrip with black leather, her doll face a mix of overripe red lips and mascara eyes. The living room was warm, and she peeled off her outer layer, dropped forgotten on the chair as she went to the bar. She tossed the thick tangle of her brown and frosted hair over her shoulder as she worked. I could taste her heat, distant now, ten feet away and wrapped, but sweet and waiting. "Fix me a cuba libra if you would." I let my jacket slide to the floor near hers. "What?" She blinked, turning, bottle of Stolichnya in hand. "Run and coke with a bit of lime, from the round container there." I pointed to the tupperware container in the door of the bar refrigerator near her knee. There was clinking of glass, the splash of liquid and drinks in hand. "Have a seat." I indicated the black leather couch near the window and went and put something on the stereo, a low beat, some sax, the usual. I slid down, "Got religion sister?" I touched the gold cross, small and a bit dull in the soft coffee cleft of her breasts. "My dad was a Baptist minister," she laughed low and sweet. "But that was a while back, this was a gift from my mother." I lit a cigarillo, pulling the brass tray close to the armrest. "Don't got god now?" I took a drag, let the smoke slide out between my teeth in a stream. "Not anymore, I mean, I'm not an atheist, but, I don't beat no bibles." There was a nervous laugh, a sip, a brief eye meeting. "I just, maybe a bit too much to have god in it any more." Her eyes flicked to the golden twining wrap around the arm of my jacket, jaws biting tail. "Too much?' A drag, a smoke ring, a sip of cola, bitter..taste of rum. "You know, seen, done, the whole thing." She gave me the eyes now, full of promise of rapacious pleasure, I'd seen hints of those eyes across the bar, loud music, liquor scent, her dark eyes. Warmth and the press of bodies, I paused with gathering myself. "There's not enough in the whole wide world too be too much." I let the cigarillo burn to ash in the brass tray. "The taste and scent of the world is ripe beyond thought." I slid a hand out and touched her cheek, five minutes later I had her across soft silken sheets savoring the sweetness. In the faint rays of dawn I disposed of the last bloating pieces of flesh at the landfill, the poison already darkening and corrupting the muscle to ruin in the trash bags. +++++++ +_+_+_+_+_+_+ Tenebrous Technologies- 'Guile, Deceit, Treachery!' Matt Cowger, CEO tenebrae@earthling.net http://home.gvi.net/~tenebrae Vox: (###)###-##### +_+_+_+_+_+_+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:49:08 -0800 From: "JimmieBise,Jr" Subject: Re: DG: EH: Karotechia notes > Which is the greater conflict? All the conspiracies merge into one > generic ecumenical plot against us, or all the conspiracies against us > and each other? This, IMHO, is the most interesting question. What we basically know is that Nyarlathotep is running both The Fate and The Karotechia. Which might be the greater threat to mankind: The immensely powerful, well-connected, highly funded Fate (which is far more likely to draw the fire of DG and other groups as more of its activities are brought to light) or the Laughable (to some) Trimverate of ex-Nazi oldsters living in a Ranch in Argentina trying to revive their youth through a few occult tomes and some straggling hate groups? I don't know about everyone else, but I'd pick the latter. It makes some sense. The Karotechia has been, from the beginning, seen as a fringe group, good for the occasional small menace, but too ill-organized to be any good. Yet Nyarlathotep backs it. In person. Directly. He works through three men, and only one in particular, unlike the Fate which he directs through quite a few more. The traditions he can call to in the Karotechia are old..older than most people ever realize, and their followers are religiously rabid. I'm thinking that perhaps the Karotechia might well be the greater threat. What do you think? - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:35:28 EST From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: More on the Bismarck (was Re: DG: EH : Karotechia Timeline First Draft) On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:51:34 -0500 (EST) The Man in Black writes: >24 MAY 1941 - Bismarck blows up the Hood, and is sunk herself by >Biplanes >from the Arc Royal three nerve-wracking days later. Bismarck and her consort, the "Hipper" class cruiser Prinz Eugen, were initially detected at 0725, 23 May 1941, by the "County" class cruiser HMS Suffolk, patrolling (together with her sister ship HMS Norfolk) in the Denmark Strait. The battlecruiser HMS Hood, the "King George V" class battleship "Prince of Wales", and six destroyers (Electra, Echo, Icarus, Antelope, Anthony, and Achates), had already been dispatched from their base at Scapa Flow, under VADM Lancelot E. Holland, for a possible intercept. Suffolk ducked into a fog bank, and sent off a contact report, but it did not get through to the Admiralty. About an hour later, the CO of the Norfolk miscalculated, and the cruiser exited a fog bank at about 6 miles (virtually point-blank range) from the Bismarck, and the first shots of battle were fired, from Bismarck's 15-inch guns.A salvo of shells straddled the Norfolk, but did not quite hit her, as she ducked back into the fog, but, as Theodore Taylor puts it in "HMS Hood vs. Bismarck", "It is an enlightening few seconds." CPT Philips of the Norfolk made his own (slightly jittery) sighting report, and this was the one which finally reached the Admiralty at about 2100 hours -- the earlier report, by CPT Ellis of the Suffolk, had not gotten through. The two cruisers continued to follow Bismarck and Prinz Eugen at a range of thirteen miles, still within effective range of Bismarck's guns. HMS Hood was over 20 years old by this time, and was something of a symbol of British naval supremacy. For years, at 46,300 T full load displacement, she was the largest and mightiest warship in the world. She was also overdue for a refit -- her armor protection was by then outdated, vulnerable to plunging fire, and the scheduled refit had been continually postponed after the start of the War to keep her in service. She was serving as VADM Holland's flagship, and was commanded by CPT Ralph Kerr. Her companion, HMS Prince of Wales, commanded by CPT James Catteral Leach, was the RN's newest battleship -- so new, in fact, that shipyard workers were still aboard her, adjusting her 14-inch guns. When Holland's force made contact with the two German ships, he chose to approach them almost bow-on, presenting minimum targets, but also blocking the firing arcs of his ships' aft turrets. He ordered fire concentrated on the lead ship, which he assumed was the "Bismarck". Aboard the Prince of Wales, CPT Leach and his gunnery officer realized that Holland had mistakedly selected the wrong ship as target (the "Bismarck" class battleship and the "Hipper" class cruiser did look a bit alike at a distance), and Leach ordered his gunners to concentrate on the second ship, the Bismarck. They opened fire at 0553 on the 24th, CPT Lindemann of the Bismarck ordering fire concentrated on the Hood. The Germans scored two hits on the Hood, and one of the Prince of Wales' 14-inchers hit the Bismarck, to little visible effect. VADM Holland signaled a turn 20 degrees to port, to open out his two ships' aft firing arcs, and bring all turrets to bear. As the British ships began the course change, a salvo splashed around the Hood, and then one plunged through that weak main deck, setting off 112 tons of powder in a magazine. A huge fireball erupted from the Hood, just aft of her second funnel, and bow and stern went up out of the water as the explosion blew the ship in half. Debris, some of it as large as gun turrets, was catapulted into the air, and munitions shot into the air to burst overhead like fireworks. Hood's main guns had fired just as the ship exploded, and her last salvo was still in the air as she sank. Prince of Wales had to make a quick course change so as not to run over the Hood's sinking wreckage. There were only three survivors from HMS Hood -- 1,418 officers and sailors, including VADM Holland and CPT Kerr, lost their lives in the explosion. The Germans shifted targets to the Prince of Wales, which took seven hits in a matter of minutes. One of these shells struck the bridge, killing everyone there except CPT Leach and his chief signalman. The battleship's 14-inch guns were malfunctioning, and CPT Leach quite justifiably broke off the action and retired behind a smoke screen to make necessary repairs. The Royal Navy found the report that "Hood has blown up" to be unbelievable (the Admiralty initially figured someone had sent the wrong code group, and the "real" news was "Hood damaged" or "Hood speed reduced"), and it took a second message to confirm the news. Another message shortly afterward reported the Prince of Wales had joined up with the Norfolk and Suffolk, trailing the Germans, and was making repairs. Also, one of the Bismarck's oil tanks had apparently been hit during the battle, and she was leaving a trail of oil on the ocean. There were eleven convoys at sea -- one of them carrying 20,000 troops -- and the Admiralty considered it imperative the Bismarck be prevented from wreaking havoc upon them. Every suitable British warship even remotely within possible range was sent toward her reported position, at full speed. Force H, under VADM James Somerville, was sent from Gibraltar -- the carrier Ark Royal, the old battlecruiser Renown, the cruiser Sheffield, and six destroyers. The ancient battleship Ramilles was diverted from escort duty and sent to assist. The battleship Rodney, headed for a badly needed refit in Boston, was ordered to intercept duty, while in Halifax, Nova Scotia, the battleship Revenge got up steam and headed to sea. The cruiser London broke off from the convoy she was escorting, and joined the hunt, as did HMS Edinburgh, on her station near the Azores. A good distance behind Hood and Prince of Wales, units of the Home Fleet -- including the battleship King George V (ADM Tovey's flagship) and carrier HMS Victorious, had set out from Scapa Flow, and were heading to intercept at full speed. By 0800 on the 24th, ADM Lutjens, aboard Bismarck, had decided to order the Prinz Eugen to break off and operate independently, while the damaged Bismarck proceeded east to St. Nazaire, location of the nearest drydock (in German hands) capable of docking the battleship. Besides the oil leak, the Bismarck had some flooding forwards, some generators and boilers out of action, some pump-rooms flooded (making 1,000 T of oil in some forward tanks unusable), and the ship's speed was reduced to 28 knots. Lutjens intended to have the damage repaired, then head out again to have another go at convoy raiding in the Atlantic. Prinz Eugen successfully broke away at about 1800, under cover of darkness and a heavy rain squall. At 2330, a flight of nine Fairey Swordfish biplane torpedo-bombers dispatched from HMS Victorious sighted the Bismarck, with the help of airborne radar, and commenced their attack. They briefly mistook the nearby US Coast Guard cutter Modoc for their target, but luckily didn't fire. Modoc was close enough to Bismarck that she is nearly hit by some of the battleship's AA fire a little later, and the Coast Guardsmen had a "ringside seat", for the first air attack of a battleship at sea. The Swordfish reported at least one hit before heading back to their carrier. At about 0300 on the 25th, the Bismarck managed to lose the British ships trailing her. Unfortunately for him, Lutjens wasn't sure he had shaken the Royal Navy, and, at 0852, broke radio silence to send an action report to Berlin. The RDF stations in Britain profusely thanked the Admiral for all his wordiness (about 200 words in the message) and attempted to get a good radio fix on his course. Unfortunately, Tovey's staff then attempted to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, by accidentally pulling out the wrong chart, to plot the bearings -- causing the pursuers to head for a false position! Repulse and Ramilles have had to drop out of the chase due to low fuel. Within 48 hours, many of the remaining ships would have to do the same. The chart error was finally discovered at 1800, by which time low fuel had forced Suffolk, Prince of Wales, and Victorious to break off. At 1030, on the 26th, a RAF Catalina flying boat sighted the Bismarck. At 1330, Somerville ordered HMS Sheffield, a cruiser from his task force, to leave Force H and advance to shadow the Bismarck during the evening. News of this was somehow delayed from reaching the Ark Royal, until after some 14 Swordfish were on their way. They were briefed there was no other ship out there, so when they sighted a large warship, they assumed it must be the Bismarck, and commenced their attack. CPT C.A. Larcomb of the Sheffield wasn't worried... ("Don't worry, those are our chaps! We'll just wave them on to the ruddy Bismarck and -- Oh, I say! They're aiming directly for _us_!") Most of the torpedoes exploded almost immediately upon splashing down, and the Sheffield was luckily able to evade those which didn't self-destruct. Now, some of the British pilots recognized the ship they had just attacked, and, as they formed up to head home, an urgent radio message was received from the Ark Royal to its Swordfish: "WATCH OUT FOR SHEFFIELD"! :) The only good thing about this little episode was that it demonstrated that the magnetic exploders installed in the torpedoes were unreliable. The next air strike would use torpedoes with the old-style contact detonators. By 2000 hours, the Swordfish were back over the Sheffield again, and CPT Larcom signaled "The enemy is 12 miles directly ahead". About 2030, they were back over the Sheffield again, asking for better directions. At 2055, they commenced their attack on the Bismarck, thirteen Swordfish dropping their torpedoes successfully. Two hits were scored -- one relatively harmless strike on the thickest part of the armor belt, and one hit aft at the rudders and screws. Both rudders were jammed left 12 degrees, and nothing the German damage control parties tried could free them. Steering the ship with the engines proved less than completely successful, and the Bismarck began to circle back toward her pursuers. At 2140, Lutjens sent a message to Berlin: "SHIP UNABLE TO MANEUVER. WE WILL FIGHT TO THE LAST ROUND. LONG LIVE THE FUHRER." By 0840 on the 27th, the Norfolk, King George V, Rodney, and Dorsetshire had closed to gun range, and opened fire on the Bismarck. By 1000, Bismarck's guns were knocked out, and she was on fire. HMS Rodney was firing 16-inch salvoes into her from 3,000 yards range, virtually point-blank. The cruiser Dorsetshire put three torpedoes into the Bismarck, and, at 1039, the German battleship at last rolled over on her side and sank, 400 miles off Brest, France. About 3,000 shells and 23 torpedoes had been fired at the Bismarck during the action, and some naval historians consider it possible that she sank from a combination of British gunfire and her crew scuttling her, rather than just gunfire. Some 2,000 German officers and men were lost with her, including ADM Lutjens and CPT Lindemann. Michael theherald@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:35:28 EST From: theherald@juno.com (Michael Layne) Subject: DG: Luftwaffe Secret Weapons (was Re: DG: Claymores and Bischoffe's...) On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:21:19 -0500 (EST) The Man in Black writes: >On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Davide Mana wrote: > >> >4. Luftwaffe Pilot, honourable knight of the air > >Operating the squadron of prototypes out of the Secret Volcano Base. > For information on the aircraft for the squadron, check the sites at: http://www.ufo.it/german/ and http://www.bekkoame,or.jp/~k1-Sahara/LuftWaffe.htm Personally, I'd be readier to believe in the modern-looking aircraft found on these pages (such as the Arado 555, which looks a bit like a US Stealth Bomber, some of the rocket interceptors, some German Kamikaze planes, and the Sanger Suborbital Bomber) than the flying saucers! Late in the War, the Luftwaffe would have been hard-pressed to construct and maintain even a handful of flying saucers, and, if they had been introduced earlier in the War, their deployment would not still be a secret! (In fact, it is conceivable that, in such a case, this would be the Karotechnia List, where Herr Alphonse, Field Marshal MiB, etc., would be discussing how to deal with the Delta Green conspirators for the glory of the Fatherland....) :) Michael theherald@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:41:12 +0200 (SAT) From: Nightgaunt Subject: DG: Emerald Hammer and South Africa Hi all > AUTHOR CONFLICTS > > Steel Cage Texas Tornado Death Match!!! > > Weighing in at a solid 98 lbs, Hailing from the Republic of South Africa, > and feared throughout the mailing list as the most ticklish of devils: > NightGaunt! His Tag team partner, trained in the finest sumo tradition of > Japan, who contantly battles through "New PAIN~!": SuperDave Farnell! > > Their opponents, respectively claiming the Japanese and South African > chapters of EMERALD HAMMER, and known throughout the world for their > reckless, no-holds-barred, style of wrestling: Jay "Ginsu" Noyes > and Kevin "Hollywood Hulk" Honan~! > Raaar! And all that. > The MiB again: > <<< He's Anzique! Just like Galt. Besides, Desmond Humbolt and Dr. Noburo > Shindo are probably the only two non-aryans in the entire Karotechia. They > are the exception to the rule. >>> > > If you want Black Anzique Ritter it's your call. If I run EH, I'll just > rewrite him as demented Belgian colonist, Afrikaans or white Zimbabwean. Or > turn him into a faithful sidekick for Galt. > There are plenty of white right-wingers available from Southern Africa, without needing to mar the racial purity of Karotechia. As an interesting historical note, the defense minister of South Africa in 1939, when the world went boom, was one Oswald Pirow, the leader of the fascist Nuwe Orde (New Order) party. Jan Smuts had to dissolve the government and create a more British one to get South Africa into the war on the right side, and even then, when the (Afrikaans) National Party took over in 1948, Oswald became less vilified. One of the SA Navy ships (scrapped in mid-1980s) was the Oswald Pirow, and there is a street named after him in Cape Town. There was a small rebel movement to join the Axis powers during the war, called the Ossewa Brandwag (Ox Wagon Fire Watch. It's a tradition thing). It's quite logical to say that Karotechia fugitives could have come here, to fascist sympathisers. They might even have had a (magical) hand in the National Party winning that turning point election in 1948, to institute a more labour-oriented policy of racial discrimination. After all, large parts of apartheid legislation were designed to ensure that the black population remained as useful unskilled labour without polluting the cities (the Group Areas Act, initially, meant that blacks had to have a pass to be in any major city). The Broederbond is a shadowy group of blue-blood Afrikaaners that literally controlled South African politics and big business in the periods 1900-1934 and 1948-1994. There are still claims of it's influence, but it (apparently) has lost most of it's power due to the new government. There was a large amount of right-wing activity growing out of the 1990 referendum to end apartheid, which has petered out since about 1996. There were numerous rallies, parades and "training" camps around the 1994 elections. There were even right-wing terrorist attacks, including an incident at the handover talks between the government and black groups where the AWB (Afrikaner Weerstand Beweging/Afrikaans Resistance Movement) nicked a police APC and crashed it into the World Trade Centre. The Wit Wolve (White Wolves) created a little fuss, but never amounted to much. - -- Song of my soul, my voice is dead, Austin Chamberlain Die though, unsung, as tears unshed Cape Town, South Africa Shall dry and die in austin (at) infront.co.za Lost Carcosa - Cassilda's Song ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 1998 08:33:18 GMT From: "Jacob Busby Bsc." Subject: DG: WWI/Irish Revolution From: Jacob Busby, Trainee IT Analyst/Programmer, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 <<< Actually, the Irish Republican Army allied itself with Germany during World War II at least, and possibly World War I. The Eagle Has Landed, anyone? >>> There was a revolution against British rule in Dublin during the First World War. The Post Office in O'Connell St. (I think) is still a site of national importance. You can see still the bullet holes in one of the statues at the start of the street. _________ Show me a man with a song in his heart and /__ __/ /__ I'll show you a man with an AM/FM pacemaker __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ "Out one ear and in the other", Johnny Hart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:58:39 +0100 From: Florian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9?= Hanke Subject: Re: DG: EH: Karotechia notes & Black "Nazis" & the name "Karotechia"(for Janusz) The Man in Black wrote: > My point is that as the Karotechia become more and more mythos-oriented, > they become less and less nazi, human or sane. Racial divisions among the > Karotechia will become erased by ruthless insanity and sorcerous might, > just as they will be in *all* societies. >>> I'd rather have it the other way round, I think it's better for how the players get involved: Instead of "Old Nazis?" --> "Aww, just *another* cult" we'd have "Aww, just *another* cult" --> "What?? You mean THE old Nazis??? *And* they have powerful mythos sorcerers??" To put it another way: Why not have something like a "normally insane" cult, obviously with Bischofe at the top. Hopefully, the name won't give it away, and then during the chapters they'll get more information about *old* Nazis still alive, while at the same time they'll get to know more about their "cult". So in the beginning it's just the mythos and then it's mythos combined with nazi doctrine. "Racial dicisions among the Karotechia will be supplemented by ruthless insanity and sorcerous might". >>> On the topic of black Nazis: Of course, if you take a close look at the Karotechia chapter, black people aren't explicitly not allowed to join the ranks of the Bischofe. But probably Glancy took this for granted (?) But just for gameplaying purposes it would be very nice to have black bischofe, especially in the south african chapter (if it still exists). Because after chasing so many "aryan" (see below) Bischofe, they'd never suspect a black to be a Bischof, which of course is very helpful for the black Bischof (This reminds me of Chess: In Swiss-german, and sometimes german too, the chess guy that can walk diagonally, is called: The black/white Bischof). This fact could make for some very twisted gameplay; the black bischof disguising as a member of an organisation which fights the AWB (the Afrikaner Weerstands Beweging / the Afrikaner Resistance Movement) Of course it would be *very* helpful that the AWB flag has *many* similarities with the sign of Eibon (too many, if you ask me). After having shot the leader, they'll know they shot the wrong guy ("Hey, this time we had no magic resistance at all?"), and they'll be knee-deep in problems - with the (very well armed, probably with the flamethrowers the MiB mentioned) AWB *and* the black Bischof at the same time... Look up the AWB flag at: http://www.allstates-flag.com/images/za-awb.gif >>> "Aryans": Looks like we're not very clear on this subject, are we? So let's go to the next library, carefully avoiding the suspicious glances of the librarian. (As I'm not quite "aryan" looking, more like the average young italian :-).) >>> And as for entymology (or is that the one about the insects??): I tried, but there's no chance for it in german, but probably the Karotechia was first named "Okkulte Abteilung der SS", and then, after the invasion of Poland and then renamed to "Karotechia", after their first success there... Janusz, any chance deriving this word from your language? Looks like this is it. Regards, Florian Hanke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:18:55 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: DG: Japanese during WWII Alex asks about my throwaway line about Japanese support of Polish resistance in WW2: <<< Where did you read that ? I am in no way an expert on WWII history but I do know a little about this subject (both from books and my family stories (believe, me or not, both my parents were born before WWII)), and its a complete novelty for me to hear about Japanese military observers in Poland, not to mention their supplying the Polish Resistance (called "Armia Krajowa", 'army-in-the-country' (to distinct from this part of Polish Army that escaped abroad, then fought with the Allies on the western front (like in Tobruk, Narvik and later in Monte Cassino and Arnhem)). Polish Armia Krajowa was supplied by Polish Government on exile (in London) that cooperated with the Allies. Can you direct me to any literature or more descriptions of the said supplying of AK by the Japanese ? Names ? Dates ? Witnesses ? >>> Basically from what I remember it was a small amount of guns and money, brought in via diplomatic baggage (so not a lot really). It's something I read quite recently. The only thing I've recently read about the Japanese in WW2, is 'Kempetai' by Raymond Lamont-Brown, published by Sutton Publishing 1998; ISBN: 0750915668. So it might be in there. I will check this weekend. I haven't finished it yet but does seem to be the source [in English anyway] for the Kempeitai and the Tokko [?sp]. I'll be using this to create agency templates for the Kempeitai and the Tokko DG rulebook style for my Praetorians web site. Alex continues: <<< ObDG: anyone interested on possibly interesting plot hook ? In 1943 British MI.x killed Wladyslaw Sikorski, Polish Prime Minister and Chief Commander. Nobody knows why. It surfaced only because the cover-story, airplane catastrophe setup was poorly designed and some of airplane staff survived... >>> Tell me more, I smell a scenario... - -- Adam Crossingham Work: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com http://www.octavian1009.com Home: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk http://www.the-wolery.demon.co.uk Alder Valley Gamers Society for the best gaming in Hants/Surrey/Berks! See http://members.tripod.com/~avgas for details. ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #250 ********************************