From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #296 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Sunday, January 24 1999 Volume 01 : Number 296 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:05:09 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Multiverses and Timetravel On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Robert Dushay wrote: > Meaning that all possible alternate realities exist until an outside > observer sees them, collapsing them into one reality again. > > So, if humans ever got outside of the structure of universes, they might > all collapse? Except YOG-SOTHOTH, AZATHOTH, DAOLOTH, Nyarlathotep and other Outer Gods no doubt count as outside observers too. Well, maybe not Azathoth... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [Choke On It!] CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:15:48 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Letters of Marque On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Michael Layne wrote: > Or, in a time of unrest (like the present day), an adventurer > with an armed ship getting Letters of Marque from several Third World > countries, and pulling out whichever one is the most convenient for the > raiding he intends to do! (This sort of thing was done on more than one > occasion by Privateers in the Age of Sail...) A fellow such as this > might be hired by a DG team to transport them, and even provide fire > support (for a suitable fee), although the DG personnel will probably end > up wishing they had waited and caught a sub or frigate to the trouble > spot... :) This guy is definitely showing up during Secret Volcano Base. With his PIRATE ROBOT BLIMPS~! The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [Choke On It!] CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:27:25 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coffin Nails and Cancer Sticks On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, gerald mckelvey wrote: > Hmm...so you are saying that it really WAS just a coincidence at that > buddist temple then? Gee, I thought politicos could smell campaign Nope, just that there is no measurable difference in the sleaziness of any major party campaign fundraising. > >The moral of the story: vote for the side with *your* special interests at > >heart. > > but I can't find anyone who supports ownership of blasphmous occult texts > detailing Things That Man Was Not Meant To Know. Microsoft > notwithstanding, of course. Elder Party? Libertarians? Republican Congressman Hastur? The Man in Black is : voting nWo 4-Life! Hogan made Wrestling! Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [Choke On It!] CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:33:51 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coffin Nails and Cancer Sticks You will cease to be, Robert Dushay: > This would seem to be not only off-topic, but well off the mark, and > gratuitously insulting to those who oppose big tobacco's legal murder of > ignorant teens. You want ignorant teens to live?! I'm ready to give Uncle Darwin a helping hand and start killin' em myself! ObDG: Mass-Market edition of The King in Yellow causes legal euthanasia, govt sponsored Lethal Chambers, and a New Eugenics movement in the ENDTIMES. New Eugenics Organization; NEO - making the world a better place. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [Choke On It!] CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 16:41:25 -0600 (CST) From: Tenebrous Technologies Subject: Re: DG: Multiverses and Timetravel At 05:05 PM 1/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Robert Dushay wrote: >> Meaning that all possible alternate realities exist until an outside >> observer sees them, collapsing them into one reality again. >> So, if humans ever got outside of the structure of universes, they might >> all collapse? >Except YOG-SOTHOTH, AZATHOTH, DAOLOTH, Nyarlathotep and other Outer Gods >no doubt count as outside observers too. Well, maybe not Azathoth... Nah, I think Azathoth is pretty much in this reality, in the center of the universe, etc. Interesting to note that Azothoth is both in this reality and the Dreamworld though. On the other hand it is arguable that entities like Yog-Sothoth and Daoloth's whole purpose is to exist outside of normal space/time and allow others to percieve this meta reality. Yog-Sothoth is the Key and Gate, Daoloth is the render of the viels, and so on. Nyarlathotep seems like quite a member of this reality, considering his numerous appearances on Earth and his constant meddling. (Not to mention those meddling kids and that dog of thiers..but that's another story.) - -Matt C. +_+_+_+_+_+_+ Tenebrous Technologies- 'Guile, Deceit, Treachery!' Matt Cowger, CEO tenebrae@earthling.net http://home.gvi.net/~tenebrae Vox: (###)###-##### +_+_+_+_+_+_+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:12:59 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Smokes [Off Topic, and Sort of a Rant, in Retrospect] Elliot A. Rushing was puffing on a monster cigar joint at the hippie time love jam when the MiB strode up wearing Paradoxical tie-dyed black. "Isn't that illegal?" asked the MiB. It was then that Elliot A. Rushing was enlightened. > Replying to Shane (and several related informative posts) and magnanimously > ignoring MiB's well-intentioned toilet references: Dammit! > Unfortunately, and I'm sorry to say this, the number of casual drug > users that *remain* in that state is extremely rare. In fact, I think > they're on the endangered species list, because I've never met one, and > I've met a lot of drug users. You've met a lot of problem drug users because you're a cop and problem drug users and those who become such, get into all kinds of judgement impaired trouble. I know three (now two, RIP) Casual Drug users, at least they say they're casual. My cancerman buddy smoked (pot) very rarely until his chemotherapy started - then he was puffing joints about one every few hours, with those atrocious generic menthols inbetween. He would do this with or without his oxygen tank wheelchair. Him, his brother and I all thought it was pretty hilarious when we weren't worried about being blown skyhigh to kingdom come, wheelchair parts embedded in our skulls. His wife was less than amused, but I'm a sick bastard, and Brian and Ben were trained morticians (read: sick bastards too :) Dammit, I miss that old scumbag! Casual Drug Users encounter police trouble about as often as law abiding citizens, that is to say, not very much. So your experiences are merely representative of probability and demographics. Mine are less so, thanks to my Weirdness Magnet disadvantage. > Awaiting the flames patiently, Is this... permission?! The Mind Boggles! ObDG: The pot smoking lung cancer victim, who won't stop smoking regular cigarettes. An Interview Subject with a built in oxygen tank self-destruct system. The Man in Black is : just saying no, too smart and too poor. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [Choke On It!] CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:18:55 -0600 From: "Carl L. Congdon" Subject: DG: Re:[Off-Topic - Several Quick Replies] Elliot A. Rushing wrote: > I understand the nature, for example, of the "victimless crime" argument, > which has some merit, but I feel that it's the collateral consequences of > drug use that most affect society. And here's where we disagree, although, being an advocate of drug legalization, I can honestly say I agree with the points you brought up in your earlier posts. I can, from anecdotal experience, relate some of the escapades of my marijuana-fixated friends which indicate a too-eager acceptance of their lives (of which most had none worth considering.)However, even after seeing them in inaction, I still can't be certain if the drugs were at fault, or if it was simply underlying immaturity on their part, and giving up drugs was a symptom of encroaching maturity rather than vice versa. But I strongly believe that criminalizing consensual activities, and the blindness to what lies behind that impulse (ignorance, blind fear, an inability to live and let live, etc. mixed in with the legitimate complaints), are also ripping at the fabric of our society, or at least drawing necessary attention away from the source of the problems, as well as other serious issues which should be dealt with. Drugs are the most obvious culprits, but why is prostitution criminalized, or gambling, or transvestitism, or cohabitation, etc. ? Why do we Americans force our police officers to become preachers with guns, when we need them to prevent murders, rapes, arson, vandalism, robbery, burglary, etc.? Why do people fall for politicians (power-addicts of the highest order) who use these issues as vote-getters? And while everyone is sticking their noses up everyone else's ass, making a demented parody of Ouroboros in the process, the world around us falls apart. Having said all that, I agree that drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. are not *good, uplifting* things. Neither is fast food, alcohol, cigarettes, unprotected sex, roleplaying game addictions or other pointless hobbies, chronic masturbation, wasting bandwidth, or all the other stupid shit humans do to waste their finite time on Earth. I *try* to abstain from all the above, as does (almost) everyone on the planet, but I don't think passing laws helps the previously mentioned problems at all. Incidentally, this is my last post to the list for awhile. I unsubscribed due to the amount of posts on this subject, and the feeling that there was a lowering signal-to-noise ratio in general. So, if you disagree, go ahead and let me know, but don't post to the list because I won't see it. I might be back soon, and I wish the MiB and company the best of luck on Emerald Hammer, but for now I bow out. - -- And when their eloquence escapes me Their logic ties me up and rapes me -The Police, "De Da Da Da, De Doo Doo Doo" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:55:18 -0500 From: Steven Kaye Subject: DG: Fun with Vril The Man in Black has mentioned vril a few times in connection with Nazi mad science, so I thought it might inspire people on the list if I dug up some more on its history. Edward Bulwer-Lytton wrote a number of occultism-related novels and stories, with one of the most famous being THE COMING RACE (1870). I don't know for sure if this was a direct influence on Lovecraft when he wrote "The Mound" - although Loveraft does reference Bulwer-Lytton's writings in SUPERNATURAL HORROR IN LITERATURE. THE COMING RACE tells the story of an underground race dominated by the women (who are bigger, smarter, and stronger). This race, the Ana or Vril-ya, are supposedly predestined to rule the earth, being superior to the dwellers on its surface. They have access to an incredible willpower-turned-to-energy, vril, which powers all their devices. Of course, they're so superior that they have abolished ambition and greed, and largely lie around doing nothing except talking about how superior they are. Apparently, those wacky Nazis ignored all the social satire and fixed on the idea of a superior race descended from the Aryans. A good source of information on 19th century occultism and the link to eugenics and Nazi beliefs is James Webb's THE OCCULT ESTABLISHMENT. Vril today survives in the name of Bovril, some sort of noxious beef extract. OK, maybe one link: http://www.best.com/~sbr/clifford.htm Steven - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted the electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:21:59 -0500 From: "gerald mckelvey" Subject: Re: DG: Re: Letters of Marque You know, a few posts back someone made a good point about the fact that letters of Marque were a bit out of date. Technology being what it was back in the 18th century, a guy could make a pretty good living off of it at the time. So I was thinking, what about updating it a bit? Could you apply letters of Marque to the Internet and data sources accessable via the Internet? I'm not sure what 'real' world relevance this might have, but the concept facinates me. Issue letters of Marque to all those computer nerds with a huge chip on thier collective shoulders and sic'em on the Cali cartel's bank accounts. Sooner or later one of 'em is gonna get lucky, the government gets it's 10 percent, the bad guys are out a few million and the geek gets a new mainframe for the living room. Well, until someone knocks down his front door and does unspeakable things to him for stealing all thier drug money. Cocaine drug lords are touchy about that sort of thing I understand. Just a thought... Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:56:20 -0500 (EST) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: TEXTBOOK CASES : Nuclear Emergency Search Teams, Take One This is merely a short gathering of notes and info that will eventually turn into the greatest document ever written on NEST, which is a pain in the ass to research. Hopefully this will turn the list into the non-smoking, drug-free utopia we once knew. Ah! Lost Eden... what serpent's fang; as sweet as thine fruit? NUCLEAR EQUIPMENT NEST detects radiation with L-RAD (Long Range Alpha Detectors) which is a technology with classified range and capabilities, making it really annoying to roleplay. I'll probably use GURPS Vehicles or Ultra-Tech's RADscanner stats, that'll do for our purposes. DOE Helicopters and other aircraft are almost certainly equipped with these devices in hardpoint mounted pods. Military craft as well. I have yet to research the capabilities of Radiation protective HAZMAT suits. Or any commercial Nuclear Emergency procedures. ICEFIRE mentions a specially built two-person Harrier Jumpjet that contains pods and cockpit instrumentation in the second seat. These harriers can be mistaken for trainer aircraft except for the suspicious bulging pods under the tarp covered wings. The US Army, and other armored forces, have NBC capable tanks and armored vehicles. It would be foolish for NEST not to use them. There is a Trinity era photograph of Enrico Fermi inside a lead lined tank collecting samples from his latest detonation. Info on modern variations of this theme have not been forthcoming. Rapidly hardening Foam sprayed from modified firefighting vehicles (HAZMAT trucks) are sometimes used to contain small explosive devices from dispersing radioactive materials. Disposal of this foam can often be a sticky problem, HAR HAR. Don't laugh, the EPA isn't cleared for these sorts of things. There may not be a NEST-SOP for radioactive foam disposal, or maybe there is, who knows? SORD is consulted for Meteorlogical information about conditions which can affect particulate (fallout) dispersal and guide evacuation. FEMA is the federal agency that would handle/authorize a civil defense evac. Communications and Control is a nightmare. In various exercises, notably MIRAGE GOLD in Nawlins', FBI did not inform local law enforcement of the possible threat. Local Hospitals and Fire Departments (HAZMAT) were out of the loop for much of the "wargame." No one even mentioned the Local Department of Health or FEMA. If the MIRAGE GOLD exercise had been real, New Orleans would have become a smoking ruin without being evacuated. NOTE TO SELF - email Jay at Hawaii DOH, he works radiation, and has mentioned NEST. One example (from somewhere and not MIRAGE GOLD) mentioned how NYPD cops in the subway escorting Feds lost communication over their police band radios. MetroCops or Transit Police, had a radio communication system that worked underground, but were not informed of the exercise/nuclear emergency until it was too late. NUCLEAR EMERGENCIES Not everyone is a mad scientist plotting from the Secret Underwater Base, or the Secret Underground Base, or the Secret Volcano Base to blow up Washington DC with a 100mt warhead. Sometimes accidents happen, and when they do, NEST goes out and kicks ass. Reactor leaks into groundwater, unauthorized particulate dispersal and simply poor accounting for nuclear materials (especially old medical tech, like pacemakers and X-ray machines) have probably all been NEST experiences. Not all bombs and terrorist nuclear devices are capable of mushroom clouds. Some are Radiation Dispersal Devices, which use uranium or plutonium dust to give 100% cancer rates to millions. Some are hoaxes. Sometimes radiation is detected where it ought not to be. In these cases, DOE usually conducts surveillance until the source of the radiation can be determined. ICEFIRE mentions a fictional op called SHADOW FORGE: A smuggler's car full of drugs set off radiation safety sensors in a warehouse full of old pacemakers. The car was searched by customs, and narcotics were discovered (prolly by K-9's). The owner of the car was found to have died from excessive radiation exposure several days previously, but no nuclear materials were found. DOE told customs to leave the car be, and eventually it was picked up by some random terrorists (forget who) who had in their possession a non-functioning russian warhead with salvagable plutonium they had used to build a RDD. The inference was that they had bought the warhead with drugs, and after the middleman died, they took the drugs back, only to be busted by the authorities. The hiding place was probably chosen to mask the radiation, without realizing that the safety sensors would discover the device within a short period of time. I don't recall whether the leaking warhead was stored in the warehouse and if so, why the sensors took so long to go off. Perhaps they measure an accumulated dosage of rads over time? Alpha Charges, Backpack nukes meant to be delivered by SEALS to blow up enemy subs are mentioned in the Rogue Warrior series by Richard Marcinko. he mentions the spurious twelve hour timer. Marcinko thinks it's prolly set to instant zero-detonation. The Russians are known to have manufactured a similar device. NERVA rockets, which use nuclear fuels to produce nuclear exhaust for propulsion, have been developed by both the USA and the former USSR. The security surrounding the Russian program (I think it was located at Tyuratam/Baikonur) has all but disintigrated. NERVA fuels are highly enriched. NUCLEAR FORENSICS ONE POINT SAFE would have us believe that scientists at OAK RIDGE National Laboratory in Tennessee, Los Alamos NL in New Mexico, and Lawerence Livermore NL in California can determine the origin of uranium from the radiation signature and other manufacturing details. The accuracy can go as far as the specific Physics Institute in Russia which produced the materials. The exact means of production, and what would be required to support such production can be inferred from sample materials. I need to get more info on the various types of nuclear production facilities and methods of manufacturing. This should scare the bejeezus out of my fellow subscribers :) Theobacillus ferrooxidans is a bacteria that oxidizes metal sulfides. Essentially it eats bad dirt and rocks and leaves behind good ores and metals. It's very time consuming and inefficent to refine this way. But it allows poor-grade ores to produce high-grade uranium that would otherwise be unavailable. PERSONNEL ICEFIRE has NEST tasking guys from SOC, such as Navy SEALS and the such. I figure nuclear trained shooters are a good idea, but just as important are DOE scientists and analysts from the Intelligence Directorate. NEST's job is on a vast scale, and the support structure is immense, drawing on resources across the board. The consequences for a NEST failure are catastrophic. One person interviewed for ONE POINT SAFE mentioned that if a nuclear device went off in a major city, the USA would have an overnight police state that would continue indefinetely. ARMAGEDDON It is unclear what NEST's role in a full scale nuclear exchange would be, aside from dying of severe radiation exposure, cancer, looting, collapse of civilization etc. This could be extrapolated from civil defense planning, and semi-secret FEMA plans not involving PURITY CONTROL. ******* If anyone has anything concrete to add to TEXTBOOK CASES : NEST I would be grateful for the assistance. Mostly concerning the questions I have posed throughout the text. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum [Choke On It!] CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 22:21:12 -0500 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: RE: Mi-Go pest control At 03:59 PM 1/22/99 -0800, you wrote: >I was first turned onto it by the Keeper's Compendium article on Kn'Yan. I >believe it was first mentioned in "The Mound" by Zelia Bishop/Lovecraft. The >Sky Devil's antagonistic relationship with the abhorrent cult which scholars >associate with the Yellow Sign was from "The Whisperer in the Darkness". I >don't know where the Kn'Yan/BoYS relationship came from, Keeper's Comp? A >Derleth story? An original creation, IMO. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "Beautifully preserved, is the enduring reptile whose ancestors crawled landward eons ago to spawn." - a museum guidebook ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:37:48 -0500 From: rdushay@mindspring.com (Robert Dushay) Subject: Re: DG: Multiverses and Timetravel >On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Robert Dushay wrote: > >> Meaning that all possible alternate realities exist until an outside >> observer sees them, collapsing them into one reality again. >> >> So, if humans ever got outside of the structure of universes, they might >> all collapse? > >Except YOG-SOTHOTH, AZATHOTH, DAOLOTH, Nyarlathotep and other Outer Gods >no doubt count as outside observers too. Well, maybe not Azathoth... > But gods may be able to hold the contradictions of multiple possibilities at the same time; only human observers insist on creating one coherent reality. This may be part of the SAN mechanic, I dunno. - --Bob Dushay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:43:06 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Subject: Re: DG: RE: Mi-Go pest control I just checked the KEEPER'S COMPENDIUM and found the K'n-Yan/BoYS connection theorized there, as well, if superficially. I certainly recommend Agent Conkle's extrapolations and theories on the topic to the uninitiated. Be seeing you. Christopher Case Officer, Delta Green http://www.delta-green.com On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Daniel Harms wrote: > At 03:59 PM 1/22/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I was first turned onto it by the Keeper's Compendium article on Kn'Yan. I > >believe it was first mentioned in "The Mound" by Zelia Bishop/Lovecraft. The > >Sky Devil's antagonistic relationship with the abhorrent cult which scholars > >associate with the Yellow Sign was from "The Whisperer in the Darkness". I > >don't know where the Kn'Yan/BoYS relationship came from, Keeper's Comp? A > >Derleth story? > > An original creation, IMO. > > Yrs., > > > Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu > "Beautifully preserved, is the enduring reptile whose > ancestors crawled landward eons ago to spawn." > - a museum guidebook > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:13:12 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: RE: DG: Re: Letters of Marque The MiB wrote: >This guy is definitely showing up during Secret Volcano Base. With his >PIRATE ROBOT BLIMPS~! Have you seen the anime, _The Crimson Pig_ (possibly issued under a variety of other names outside Japan), by Mayazaki (the guy who did _Princess Mononoke_, _My Neighbor Totoro_, etc)? Seriously cool, tons of between-the-wars insane flying-boat designs, and good-natured air pirates preying on each other. And a WWI fighter pilot, reincarnated as a pig. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:12:04 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: Re: Smokes [will endeavor to stay on-topic] A couple of the posts in this thread have actually been useful, so I decided to chime in with Smokes in Japan. Like Italy, _tobako_ is state-run, so you have the paradox (lot of those lately, eh?) of the government selling the stuff and making a very half-hearted (perhaps sixteenth-hearted) attempt at educating the public on the dangers at the same time. I think TV commercials were finally banned a year or two back--I just know I haven't seen Charlie Sheen acting like Mr. Elegant-with-Cigarretes on TV for a while. But maybe that's because he's been in rehab. Anyway, tobako ads are everywhere, and tobako vending machines are almost as common as those selling soft drinks. Jean Reno is a big ad star these days. (note: It is possible to find vending machines selling beer--including HUGE jugs of beer--and sake, too. ObDG: Sake can be used to clean wounds.) (Further note: In Tokyo, I hear you can buy ANYTHING out of vending machines, including pre-worn high-school girls' underwear. I'll let Jay comment on that.) Anyway, it's very easy for kids to buy cigs (or booze). A common ad sign a few months back read "Now I Smoke Now I Smoke Now I Smoke Now I Smoke Now I Smoke Now I Smoke Now I Smoke Now I Smoke NOW I SMOKE!" (About a hundred Now I Smokes redacted for brevity.) Smoking is very common, although I've met a few people lately who have quit. As people are quite concerned with longevity here (Japan has the greatest longevity of any nation, BTW), this may be the beginning of a trend. But only the beginning. Most restaurants don't have non-smoking sections, except for American-based ones like Western Sizzler and McDonalds. Oddly, most of those require one to walk through a huge smoking section to get to the non-smoking section, not a terribly well-thought-out plan. Trains are either no-smoking or they have sealed-off smoking cars these days, although I've encountered problems on buses (having half the bus non-smoking makes about as much sense as having every other seat non-smoking--the whole bus fills up with fumes anyway). OTOH, I've found that most smokers here are pretty polite about it, and pay attention to air movement when around non-smokers. There are some glaring exceptions, of course. I have only felt it necessary to protest once, when a couple of ultra-fashionable college girls were puffing it up like mad (they were like steam engines!) right next to my asthmatic daughter in a tiny, enclosed fast-food joint. Most people seem to be quick to douse their butt if they notice anyone around them showing discomfort. Reflection of 1000 years of cultural evolution. Chewin tabaccy is right out. Just doesn't fit in with Japanese ideas of what's cool. Although you might find the ocassional weirdo who thinks he's a cowboy. Marijuana: Big-time conversation killer. Loco-weed is regarded as being as dangerous as heroin in Japan. Probably not a good idea to mention that you smoked it a couple of times in college--it's like saying you killed a couple of people when you were young, just to see what it was like. OK, I'm exaggerating a little, but only a little. (DG agents caught with any kind of illegal drug will be in serious trouble. Although they'll probably get deported, rather than serving much prison time.) People here don't have any access to the info that's thrown back and forth in the arguments for and against legalization in Europe and North America. Right. That's it. And just for the record, I don't smoke, had family who died of cancer, wife smokes but avoids getting it on me or our kid, and, as someone mentioned before, cars put out a helluva lot of deadly fumes, too. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:37:30 -0500 From: Stephen Parks Subject: Re: DG: Canadian Smoke John Petherick wrote: > You forgot the favourite warning of most of my (male) friends who smoke: > Smoking will harm your pregnancy / developing fetus (I can't remember). I just wrote down all the ones I found on empty packs strewn about the floor of my apartment. My personal favourite is still: "Tobacco smoke causes fatal lung disease in non-smokers" /"La fumée du tabac cause chez les non-fumeurs des maladies pulmonaires mortelles" (Subtext decoded: Smoke in order to kill others) > Specifically, they're supposed to sell only to natives, not necessarily from > that reserve. In most areas it's simply *cheaper* smokes and gasoline since > it's only provincial taxes and the GST that's not applied. Near Montreal, > there's a lot of cross-border smuggling so prices are even lower. The bit that I've forgotten the legalities about is that I believe our native peoples enjoy some sort of exemption from paying duty, such that they can buy cigarettes/booze/etc in the States, and bring them back super-cheap and legally; the illegal part is reselling the stuff. > - The American agent found out because his cigarettes smell different from > Canadian smokes Well maybe, apparently there is a difference between (for example) the Marlboros you can buy in Canada and the Marlboros you can buy in the States because of different regulations on ingredients. However, I would imagine that the difference in the second-hand aroma would be negligeable. Even if someone were caught with American packs and their tiny health warnings, depending on the agent's cover story most people probably wouldn't take much notice. Just say, "Oh I was down in the States last weekend." > - agents looking for something on the St. Lawrence River who stumble into a > cigarette smuggling operation, defended by automatic weapons or agents smuggling something stumble into RCMP looking for smugglers and armed with automatic weapons > - an American confused by people hauling out their pack of smokes and > opening it when asked about a specific date (many Canadian cigarette > packages, which are constructed differently from American ones, have > calendars printed on the inner packaging) Really? I never noticed... and they're not inside my Dunhills, hmm... How about an art-exhibition which had previously been tobacco-funded and is now funded by some conspiracy's front-company, who bring in Mythos-tainted artwork. Or Montreal's International Jazz Festival could get some funky sponsoring and a guest appearance by Anton Merriweather engaged in a 'side-project.' Oh, and there's the classic badass line to be uttered before giving oneself the .45 calibre retirement: "I beat cancer." Stephen PS to MiB: thanks for the response but you should be more careful with your Montreal-ward ventures, given what I've heard is the second largest gay population in the world, laying the smack down on my candy ass has a number of interpretations. Shake it baby! (And remember we're Canadians so bring the proper gadgets.) Humbly waiting for that reach-around, you big bad pirate... Did I just tap the glass? Apologies to the bandwidth-busters ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:51:02 -0500 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: TEXTBOOK CASES : Nuclear Emergency Search Teams, Take One MiB wrote: >This is merely a short gathering of notes and info that will eventually >turn into the greatest document ever written on NEST, which is a pain in >the ass to research. Hopefully this will turn the list into the >non-smoking, drug-free utopia we once knew. Ah! Lost Eden... what >serpent's fang; as sweet as thine fruit? Oh dear. I see the old ego-problem is back.... still, that's the MiB we all know and love! >I have yet to research the capabilities of Radiation protective HAZMAT >suits. Or any commercial Nuclear Emergency procedures. Most commercial outfits will routinely rely on detection rather than physical protection, by which I mean using film badges and dosimeters to monitor exposure (whole body and hand dose usually). I can check out the dose exposure regulations if you want (they are probably in a filing cabinet somewhere around here). Bear in mind also the use of remote manipulators and robots (NEST people probably have something like the British Army bomb disposal remotes... which are a real piece of work: especially the shotgun on the end to "disrupt" bomb mechanisms, but I digress). >Rapidly hardening Foam sprayed from modified firefighting vehicles (HAZMAT >trucks) are sometimes used to contain small explosive devices from >dispersing radioactive materials. Disposal of this foam can often be a >sticky problem, HAR HAR. Don't laugh, the EPA isn't cleared for these >sorts of things. There may not be a NEST-SOP for radioactive foam >disposal, or maybe there is, who knows? Probably involves a big hole in the ground. Most nuclear disposal seems to rely on this rather low tech approach. That and reinforced concrete sarcophagi. >One example (from somewhere and not MIRAGE GOLD) mentioned how NYPD cops >in the subway escorting Feds lost communication over their police band >radios. MetroCops or Transit Police, had a radio communication system that >worked underground, but were not informed of the exercise/nuclear >emergency until it was too late. I believe the British transport police have similar problems with the London Underground. Not sure whether they have worked out a way to use the tunnels as a waveguide though. >ONE POINT SAFE would have us believe that scientists at OAK RIDGE National >Laboratory in Tennessee, Los Alamos NL in New Mexico, and Lawerence >Livermore NL in California can determine the origin of uranium from the >radiation signature and other manufacturing details. The accuracy can go >as far as the specific Physics Institute in Russia which produced the >materials. The exact means of production, and what would be required to >support such production can be inferred from sample materials. There was a nice article on the state (read plight) of Soviet nuclear research in Science a couple of weeks ago. You may be able to get free access to it at http://www.science.com, but I wouldn't count on it. >Theobacillus ferrooxidans is a bacteria that oxidizes metal sulfides. >Essentially it eats bad dirt and rocks and leaves behind good ores and >metals. It's very time consuming and inefficent to refine this way. But it >allows poor-grade ores to produce high-grade uranium that would otherwise >be unavailable. The lab upstairs from me at my old department was working on biological means of precipitating soluble uranium compounds into elemental uranium, and finding out ways to prevent corrosion in reactor pipes. AFAIK, the current methods for uranium enrichment still rely on centriugation rather than biological means (which are still in the research, let alone development, phase). >If anyone has anything concrete to add to TEXTBOOK CASES : NEST I would be >grateful for the assistance. Mostly concerning the questions I have posed >throughout the text. Nothing really concrete. Perhaps checking out the Soviet experience at Chernobyl may give clues? Alternatively there is the DOE website (http://www.doe.gov) which has a section on declassified materials (including security classifications and designations which expand on thjose in the DG book - check the site index for details). You may also want to check out Tom Clancy's The Sum of All Fears, which has some possibly accurate (but after some of the rubbish he wrote about bioweapons in Exceutive Orders, I'm not so sure) info on NEST procedures. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu BTW.... >[Choke On It!] >CH3-P(=O)(-SCH2CH2N[CH(CH3)2]2)(-OC2H5) My organic chemistry not being what it once was, would you like to share with us what the hell this compound is (and, speculatively, what it has to do with the smoking bru-ha-ha)? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:40:51 -0500 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: TEXTBOOK CASES : Nuclear Emergency Search Teams, Take One The guy I'm going to have to be nice to since he picked up on my robot blimps link, damn him, wrote: >NEST detects radiation with L-RAD (Long Range Alpha Detectors) which is a >technology with classified range and capabilities, making it really >annoying to roleplay. I'll probably use GURPS Vehicles or Ultra-Tech's >RADscanner stats, that'll do for our purposes. There are a few links on LRAD technology, suggesting a range of several meters. Check out http://lrad.nis6.lanl.gov/ and http://w3.pnl.gov:2080/WEBTECH/usid/lrad.html.bak >DOE Helicopters and other aircraft are almost certainly equipped with >these devices in hardpoint mounted pods. Military craft as well. One of these two articles mentions detectors in helicopters, I forget which one: http://www.seattletimes.com/extra/browse/html97/altbust_092997.htm http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/archive/1996/dom/960108/counterterrorism .html Two links that might be useful in general are http://www.lanl.gov/Internal/divisions/nis/welcome.html (Los Alamos' Nonproliferation and International Security Division) and http://drambuie.lanl.gov/~esh10/ (Los Alamos' Hazardous Materials Response Group) >I have yet to research the capabilities of Radiation protective HAZMAT >suits. Or any commercial Nuclear Emergency procedures. I can help with the second one: http://www.nrc/gov/NRC/AEOD/ER/FRERP/index.html (Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan). Other useful links are http://www.fema.gov/fema/radiolo.html, http://www.fema.gov/pte/rea/, http://www.fema.gov/emi/g250ws_f.htm, and last but not least http://www.epa.gov/radiation/rert/index.html. >I need to get more info on the various types of nuclear production >facilities and methods of manufacturing. This should scare the bejeezus >out of my fellow subscribers :) The one production method I can think of off the top of my head involves gas diffusion - U-238 being heavier than U-235, they diffuse at different rates and can be filtered. Steven > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted the electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:09:56 +0100 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: TEXTBOOK CASES : Nuclear Emergency Search Teams, Take One Greetings. Another good interesting thread going, I see. The MIB observed >>Disposal of this foam can often be a >>sticky problem, HAR HAR. Don't laugh, the EPA isn't cleared for these >>sorts of things. There may not be a NEST-SOP for radioactive foam >>disposal, or maybe there is, who knows? and Graeme commented >Probably involves a big hole in the ground. Most nuclear disposal seems to >rely on this rather low tech approach. That and reinforced concrete >sarcophagi. The principle is always, the lower the tech, the lesser the risk of some part malfunctioning. Old mines are often regarded as a good dumping site for nuclear wastes (including containment foams). The abandoned mine is a perfect, ready made dumping ground, with many corridors and "vaults" and often a single, easy to block access. Contrary to general belief, granite is not the best containment material. Not only there are relatively few mines boring through granite bodies, but granite can present fractures and joints, through which circulating water can come in contact with nuclear wastes and carry them into the water circuit. The best and most sought after dumping sites available at the moment are old, abandoned halite mines. Halite is the rock form of highly soluble sodium chlorine, the salt we generally use for cooking purposes - huge quantities of the stuff were deposited around the world in the Messinian (7.5 million years ago) and were later mined. The presence of stable halite in an old underground complex is a guarantee the mine does not suffer from water seepages and leakages. Salt is therefore not a containment factor, but just a ready available control of the efficiency of the containment. Already many of the old sites in the Mediterranean area have been optioned by wastes disposal companies - the run for the mines began in the mid '80s. Noteworthy brainless instance: the head of the newly created ENPA (Ente Nazionale Protezione Ambiente - the Italian EPA equivalent) that, learning about the growing need for salt mines as nuclear dumping grounds, solved the problem by proposing we "make them" by filling with salt old coal mines. Steady on, that man! And this is it. Hope it helps. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #296 ********************************