From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V1 #370 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Sunday, March 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 370 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:14:34 PST From: "Adam Marler" Subject: DG: European Mythology Has anyone ever thought of using any norse mythology in their games? Its rife with good stuff, Shapeshifting Berserkers, Undead Vampire like thingies, and a whole bunch of other stuff. If anyone has used it before, I would love to see it, Ive used it in Shadowrun, but that setting is a lot more conducive to that kind of thing, especially with Winternight. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 00:16:07 +0100 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: The Santa Fe Institute Greetings. Andrew wrote... >An excerpt from a Cryptozoology List post on funding of expeditions. I >thought this could, potentially, be interesting to my fellow Delta Green >agents. Check out the Institute's...ahem...interests. Combined with the >description of Maxwell's demise, there's a story waiting to happen. Check out the Institute web site http://www.santafe.edu/ Nice little weird symbol they have on their welcome page. And be sure to dig these two http://www.santafe.edu/sfi/research/ [enough projects to keep our paranoia up and running for a month] http://www.santafe.edu/sfi/research/focus/whatissfi.html A team dedicated to the Science of Complexity, Los Alamos connections... Cult of Azathot? MJ12 external research unit? Or possible friendlies? Take care Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:16:53 -0500 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: The Santa Fe Institute Andrew Gable wrote: >An excerpt from a Cryptozoology List post on funding of expeditions. I >thought this could, potentially, be interesting to my fellow Delta Green >agents. Check out the Institute's...ahem...interests. Combined with the >description of Maxwell's demise, there's a story waiting to happen. The Santa Fe Institute is alive and well - check out their web page at http://www.santafe.edu The story of their foundation is well told in COMPLEXITY: THE EMERGING SCIENCE AT THE EDGE OF ORDER AND CHAOS, a non-fiction book by M. Mitchell Waldrop (ISBN 0-671-76789-5, or 0-671-87234-6 if you prefer) Steven - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted the electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:54:45 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: RE: The king (in yellow) has left the building.. Val wrote: >does anyone have a copy of the play "The King in Yellow" on the net? >who wrote it? Like the Necronomicon, there is no actual play of "The King in Yellow," although some "fragments" have been written, and I think an entire play was written by somebody. The original writer was indeed Robert W. Chambers, who wrote the short story by that name. Here's a very detailed, lengthy resource on the man: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/5582/chambers.html And here is a site that has a fragment of The King in Yellow, along with links to on-line versions of many of Chambers' stories. Not to be missed! http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/l_kiy.htm Have fun. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:33:56 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Bat Attack! (was: RE: DG: Leng and St. Jerome) Andrew wrote: >And, while on the subject of Indian vampires (they sure had a lot...) >there was also the Vetala. Interesting. A gigantic bat-type creature, >which sometimes appeared as a man (first reference I've found to the >bat/vampire connection...weird, since there's no vampire bats in India). >Had the backwards feet and hands of the Rakshasa. > >Maybe a byakhee? Interesting--when I was recently describing a byakhee to my players, one of the things I tossed in was that it had double opposable thumbs on each hand, and the feet had forward- and backward-facing toes like a parrot (the reason this came up is that it was in tree one of them was climbing, and the first thing he saw was its hand gripping the trunk--he almost grabbed its wrist). Anyway, bats are associated with darkness, evil, etc because of their hunting habits (most of them, anyway--there's a few daytime fruitbats). One show I saw recently said bats were associated with witches because the bats would swarm around the witches' bonfires to catch insects attracted to the fire. But I rather doubt the people who decided witches and bats are associated back in the old days had ever seen a witch ceremony; the explanation is simply that bats fly around at night, and are thus EVIL! Besides, they get tangled in your hair and stuff. Just kidding--I love bats. My hometown, Austin, is home to the largest urban bat population in North America. When the Congress St. Bridge was built, it turned out to have spaces underneath that made perfect bat homes. Soon after, the Mexican freetail bats (cute little things) moved in, and people were calling for tearing down the bridge and rebuilding it to get rid of the bats. Luckily, a group of bat scientists came down and edjukatid the public on the advantages of having bats around (lots fewer mosquitoes and moths, for example). Now the huge swarm of bats leaving the bridge at sundown is a big event during the summer--people set up lawn chairs, bringing picnics and making sure to stay out from under the path, though, as the bats are shedding extra weight as they take off (ewww!). It's very cool--huge, twisting black cloud of bats, the air filled with tiny electric-sounding peeps representing the 1% or so of their calls that are in human hearing range. Restaurant seats with a good view of it are reserved months ahead of time. American academics often write that "In Japan, the bat is regarded as a creature of good luck and prosperity." Never met any Japanese people who knew that--they all seem to think bats are scary and get tangled in your hair. OK, so does this have a point?! Well, what about wing structures? I already mentioned weird hand/foot structures above, and I always wanted to describe the byakhee's wings in a suitably alien way. I mean, all of the winged Mythos creatures seem to be typically depicted with bat wings. Cthulhu and the Starspawn (cool name for a band), the Elder Things, Hunting Horrors, Byakhee, Mi-Go, Night Gaunts, etc. Sometimes we try for more variety with insect wings, bird wings, pterodactyl wings (basically a variation of bat wings). Can anyone come up with better alien structures? Or alien descriptions of any anatomy, like the hands/feet above. Here's how I describe Byakhee: Ozone smell and itching in brain (caused by use of flight organ). Multifaceted, red eyes, teeth like a mouthful of steel pencils, skull-like head. Skin apparently rotting, peeling away (a normal process), exposed ribs (actually part of the exoskeleton, overlapping plates of chitinous material). Hands and feet roughly identical: fingers and toes all prehensile, seven digits per hand/foot, five "fingers" (long, tipped by horny claws, center finger longest) and two opposable "thumbs" on ball joints, allowing them to be reversed, making all feet/hands excellent for clinging to branches and the like. Two long antennae sweeping back over the head. Knees and elbows also double-jointed. Huge wasp-like thorax: long hairs stand up and glow with blue light when the thing flies. Wings are tattered and look like they wouldn't work--in flight, they seem to serve only as guidance, not propulsion or lift. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:08:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew D. Gable" Subject: Re: Bat Attack! (was: RE: DG: Leng and St. Jerome) Andrew D. Gable agable@falcon.lhup.edu THE CRYPTOWEB: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/7270/ DELTA GREEN/EQUINOX: www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arkham/80/ On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, David Farnell wrote: > Andrew wrote: > >And, while on the subject of Indian vampires (they sure had a lot...) > >there was also the Vetala. Interesting. A gigantic bat-type creature, > >which sometimes appeared as a man (first reference I've found to the > >bat/vampire connection...weird, since there's no vampire bats in India). > >Had the backwards feet and hands of the Rakshasa. > > > >Maybe a byakhee? > > > Interesting--when I was recently describing a byakhee to my players, one of > the things I tossed in was that it had double opposable thumbs on each hand, > and the feet had forward- and backward-facing toes like a parrot (the reason > this came up is that it was in tree one of them was climbing, and the first > thing he saw was its hand gripping the trunk--he almost grabbed its wrist). > > Anyway, bats are associated with darkness, evil, etc because of their > hunting habits (most of them, anyway--there's a few daytime fruitbats). One > show I saw recently said bats were associated with witches because the bats > would swarm around the witches' bonfires to catch insects attracted to the > fire. But I rather doubt the people who decided witches and bats are > associated back in the old days had ever seen a witch ceremony; the > explanation is simply that bats fly around at night, and are thus EVIL! > Besides, they get tangled in your hair and stuff. > > Just kidding--I love bats. My hometown, Austin, is home to the largest urban > bat population in North America. When the Congress St. Bridge was built, it > turned out to have spaces underneath that made perfect bat homes. Soon > after, the Mexican freetail bats (cute little things) moved in, and people > were calling for tearing down the bridge and rebuilding it to get rid of the > bats. Luckily, a group of bat scientists came down and edjukatid the public > on the advantages of having bats around (lots fewer mosquitoes and moths, > for example). Now the huge swarm of bats leaving the bridge at sundown is a > big event during the summer--people set up lawn chairs, bringing picnics and > making sure to stay out from under the path, though, as the bats are > shedding extra weight as they take off (ewww!). It's very cool--huge, > twisting black cloud of bats, the air filled with tiny electric-sounding > peeps representing the 1% or so of their calls that are in human hearing > range. Restaurant seats with a good view of it are reserved months ahead of > time. > > American academics often write that "In Japan, the bat is regarded as a > creature of good luck and prosperity." Never met any Japanese people who > knew that--they all seem to think bats are scary and get tangled in your > hair. > > OK, so does this have a point?! Well, what about wing structures? I already > mentioned weird hand/foot structures above, and I always wanted to describe > the byakhee's wings in a suitably alien way. I mean, all of the winged > Mythos creatures seem to be typically depicted with bat wings. Cthulhu and > the Starspawn (cool name for a band), the Elder Things, Hunting Horrors, > Byakhee, Mi-Go, Night Gaunts, etc. Sometimes we try for more variety with > insect wings, bird wings, pterodactyl wings (basically a variation of bat > wings). Can anyone come up with better alien structures? Or alien > descriptions of any anatomy, like the hands/feet above. > > Here's how I describe Byakhee: Ozone smell and itching in brain (caused by > use of flight organ). Multifaceted, red eyes, teeth like a mouthful of steel > pencils, skull-like head. Skin apparently rotting, peeling away (a normal > process), exposed ribs (actually part of the exoskeleton, overlapping plates > of chitinous material). Hands and feet roughly identical: fingers and toes > all prehensile, seven digits per hand/foot, five "fingers" (long, tipped by > horny claws, center finger longest) and two opposable "thumbs" on ball > joints, allowing them to be reversed, making all feet/hands excellent for > clinging to branches and the like. Two long antennae sweeping back over the > head. Knees and elbows also double-jointed. Huge wasp-like thorax: long > hairs stand up and glow with blue light when the thing flies. Wings are > tattered and look like they wouldn't work--in flight, they seem to serve > only as guidance, not propulsion or lift. > > Dave > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:12:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew D. Gable" Subject: DG: Capel Egryn [5] Escalante was sitting in his car, watching the raindrops run their courses down the windshield, listening to the measured and dull squeak of the windshield wipers. As he navigated the rain-slicked streets, a thousand possible scenarios for what Matthiessen was involved in, why he had been in contact with Agent Gonzalez and Dr. Fogelberg, all ran through his mind. As he pulled in along the curb of Brook Street across from the bar where Sun Tzu had told him to meet him, the middle-aged detective glanced at an expanse of overgrown land, the black-faced macadam of the lot crumbling as who knew how many weeds pushed their way through. Almost involuntarily, he walked across the street and straight into the lot. A tiny and badly polluted brook, little more than a trickle, ran through the lot. Yes, it was in just such a place as this that he worked his first homicide case in New York, the murder of Melissa Thomson. The "Blacker Dahlia," some clever journalist had called it, playing off the similarities between it and an unsolved killing in L.A. half a century before. As Escalante replayed the specifics of that case in his mind, he was astounded by how much he recalled. It was unfortunate for him that was his first case on homicide; the other cops told him it would only get worse from there, and they were right. But that case wasn't one that one would tend to remember a lot about--most people would block as much out of their memory as possible. He couldn't help but think that that memory was a sign of things to come. He shrugged, eager to get all memories of Thomson's slaying out of his head, and jogged out of the vacant lot and back onto the sidewalk, and from there into Mancini's. An average bar, he thought as he stood in the doorway. The smell of tobacco smoke mixed with alcohol permeated the air in the place. I must be getting too old for this, he thought as he took a dimly-lit booth, the blaring music making his ears bleed. After he had waited there for nearly fifteen minutes, a short Japanese man walked up to him. "Detective Escalante?" "Yes," he said, standing up. "Sun Tzu?" The Japanese man looked around and then took a seat. "You weren't followed?" "No." "Good. Now listen to what I have to say." He turned, looked around, turned back to Escalante. "My employers had an interest in seeing Matthiessen eliminated." The detective's expression changed to one of suspicion. "You were involved in the murder?" Then, "You're the guy Matthiessen was in contact with." He shook his head. "I didn't say that. He was a hacker--I'm sure you know that. He had found some information which was very incriminating to my employers." "The disk Ellefson told me about?" Sun Tzu nodded. "I've been sent to retrieve the information. I can't help you unless you promise that I will have your full cooperation in that matter." Escalante thought carefully. "You have my word." The Japanese man paused a moment before answering. "Good. Find Dietrich Grohl. He's just been admitted to Bethesda. His name's in the files Matthiessen had obtained." "Naval Hospital?" "He can tell you what you need to know. He can tell you everything." Sun Tzu finished off his beer and got up. As he stood there, he turned to the detective again. "Meet me tomorrow, 7:30 AM at the park where Matthiessen was killed with the disk and I'll get you the clearance you'll need to see Grohl." - --------- END TRANSMISSION Andrew D. Gable agable@falcon.lhup.edu THE CRYPTOWEB: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/7270/ DELTA GREEN/EQUINOX: www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arkham/80/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:27:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew D. Gable" Subject: Re: Bat Attack! (was: RE: DG: Leng and St. Jerome) Just as a prelude to the reply, there's actually a feeling growing among cryptozoologists that the backwards feet of the Vetala (and other southeast Asian mystery bats) may have been an accurate account of a bat's rather odd feet. On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, David Farnell wrote: > Besides, they get tangled in your hair and stuff. I read an article by Dr. Karl Shuker (Eglish zoologist & cryptozoologist) which stated that, oddly enough, this superstition is prevalent in cultures all over the world, and appears to have sprung up independently. > the byakhee's wings in a suitably alien way. I mean, all of the winged > Mythos creatures seem to be typically depicted with bat wings. Cthulhu and > the Starspawn (cool name for a band), the Elder Things, Hunting Horrors, > Byakhee, Mi-Go, Night Gaunts, etc. Sometimes we try for more variety with > insect wings, bird wings, pterodactyl wings (basically a variation of bat > wings). Can anyone come up with better alien structures? Or alien > descriptions of any anatomy, like the hands/feet above. What about distinctly un-winglike structures like fins (similar to a whale or dolphin)? Or "wings" that are merely a row of spines moved in a rhythmic pattern (yeah, OK, that idea's stolen from some descriptions of El Chupacabra). And remember that not everything that flies (at least in a supernatural setting) has to have wings. Witness Chinese and Japanese dragons. Few of them have wings. > hairs stand up and glow with blue light when the thing flies. Wings are > tattered and look like they wouldn't work--in flight, they seem to serve > only as guidance, not propulsion or lift. Unusual--many winged cryptids (especially the rather dubious, IMHO, but awesome for a story element, Jersey Devil) are described as having wings too small for their body. What was that? Mother Leeds was a Hastur cultist? And of course, there's the anatomic anomaly associated with bumblebees. Andrew D. Gable agable@falcon.lhup.edu THE CRYPTOWEB: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/7270/ DELTA GREEN/EQUINOX: www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arkham/80/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 02:26:07 EST From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: DG: KEEPERS: Catholic musings Several thoughts about the Order of the Sword of St. Jerome (Jerry's Kids!) If I'm interpreting correctly, the OSSJ learns everything they can about the Mythos and Mythos magic, but absolutely, positively will not utilize Mythos magic. Am I correct? If so, from their POV, any use of the tools of the Mythos would be a victory for the Mythos, and the first step towards (damnation?). Which would make them leery of DG or PISCES. How does the Mythos fit into their cosmology? The Mythos ignores God, how does God feel about the Mythos? Did he create it? Is it from outside his Creation? (I am of course asking these questions from their POV) Does the OSSJ feel that Mythos evil originates with Satan? Do they feel the Mythos is evil, or merely toxic? Has the OSSJ reinterpreted Satan in light of the Mythos? Do they still believe in Satan? If they don't, do they pretend otherwise? Is the OSSJ view of the Mythos the same as the Vatican's? Or does the Vatican take it's cues from the OSSJ on matters Mythos? Does the OSSJ conceal info from the Vatican? And dammit, I lost the URL! Davide? A link in The Ice Cave? While reading Vampire$, I had an idea. Small bands of Vatican financed mercenaries under the guidance of the OSSJ. For muscle. But here's the kicker: duty in these orgs is penance for terrorist/black ops sins. Earning an indulgence for IRA activity, or acts committed in Panama, or Iraq, or Afghanistan or wherever. A sort of Foreign Legion for Catholics. Now there's some angst I can sink my teeth into. I love the idea of an Irish 'Wild Geese' cell, for St. Patrick. Former RC SAS might be sent to the St. George cell. Which is my next thread: national saints. Patrick = Ireland George = England Andrew = Scotland Lucia = Sweden (IIRC) Joan = France (?) hehe, I grew up in Naples, so I vote St. Mark for ALL of Italy! Cool name, too. (But I could be persuaded otherwise) and then I draw a blank. And, just one more: The Knights of St. Jude. DG operatives and friendlies that are essentially double agents. A small organization of Georgetown/Loyola trained Feds and friendlies that view the DG world from Jesuit trained eyes. They are a cabal within DG that A Cell doesn't know about. They don't trust Mythos magic or people who might practice it, even Good Guys. They view it as "fruit of the poison tree." They are, of course, a serious risk to security, and their very existence is proof of a breach. They use tradecraft for their own communications and meets. They (probably) don't know each other's real identities or place in DG. They meet under Reservoir Dogs (RDog) protocols and their communications are managed by an unknown member who apparently has access to DG infrastructure info. And a line to the Vatican. The first meeting of the Judes was a counterfeit Night At The Opera that turned out to be a Catholic retreat for agents and friendlies having a crisis of faith. Maybe three of them, five at most, no records were kept and no one admits being a founder. Need to know and all. Reservations (and Op IDs) were made in the names of saints ala Simon Templar. The plan for the creation of the Knights was in the anonymous document package waiting for each guest. The printed agenda consisted of a summary of the Jude POV, a proposal to conspire, some suggestions on organization and procedures, assurance of communications support, and best wishes. The greatest threat they pose to DG security involves the transfer of Mythos and DG knowledge amongst the Knights. With their separate agenda, they know things they wouldn't be privy to under normal protocols, either Fed or DG. Consequently, the Knights of St. Jude K E E P E R S O N L Y don't care about MJ, or Greys or whatever is behind them. On Jude Time. ETs are secular, and not on the Jude agenda. They do, however, care about ARCHINT. Or maybe A Cell knows about them, even founded them. Wheels within wheels. Maybe Andrea is Catholic. Maybe I better just shut up. Mark McFadden Wary for flames, and I don't mean email. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:41:59 +0100 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: Bat Attack! (was: RE: DG: Leng and St. Jerome) Greetings. Lots of interesting threads and too little time to cover them all. I'll start with Byakhees. Dave wrote >American academics often write that "In Japan, the bat is regarded as a >creature of good luck and prosperity." Never met any Japanese people who >knew that--they all seem to think bats are scary and get tangled in your >hair. Have to agree with Andrew's reference: the tangled in the hair thing is really universal - you find it all over Europe, too. >OK, so does this have a point?! Well, what about wing structures? I already >mentioned weird hand/foot structures above, and I always wanted to describe >the byakhee's wings in a suitably alien way. I mean, all of the winged >Mythos creatures seem to be typically depicted with bat wings. Cthulhu and >the Starspawn (cool name for a band), the Elder Things, Hunting Horrors, >Byakhee, Mi-Go, Night Gaunts, etc. Sometimes we try for more variety with >insect wings, bird wings, pterodactyl wings (basically a variation of bat >wings). Can anyone come up with better alien structures? Or alien >descriptions of any anatomy, like the hands/feet above. Nice question. Your list does not include flying-squirels and flying fishes (both actually flightless, by the way), but is otherwise pretty complete. Now let me see... >Here's how I describe Byakhee: Ozone smell and itching in brain (caused by >use of flight organ). Multifaceted, red eyes, teeth like a mouthful of steel >pencils, skull-like head. Skin apparently rotting, peeling away (a normal >process), exposed ribs (actually part of the exoskeleton, overlapping plates >of chitinous material). Hands and feet roughly identical: fingers and toes >all prehensile, seven digits per hand/foot, five "fingers" (long, tipped by >horny claws, center finger longest) and two opposable "thumbs" on ball >joints, allowing them to be reversed, making all feet/hands excellent for >clinging to branches and the like. Two long antennae sweeping back over the >head. Knees and elbows also double-jointed. Huge wasp-like thorax: long >hairs stand up and glow with blue light when the thing flies. Wings are >tattered and look like they wouldn't work--in flight, they seem to serve >only as guidance, not propulsion or lift. Live from Piltdown! The god that created Byakhees had a wild saturday night party and then decided to put the leftovers to some uses on sunday morning. OK - a first wild guess: the glowing thorax-like structure is the one that makes the thing airborne in the first place - that's why the bristles glow during flight. Sort of a biological anti-gravity generator: a similar organ is described in the first "Legion of Space" novel by Jack Williamson (screw biology - old space opera is real). Shoot the glowing bit and the critter crashes to the ground. Or maybe not. The flight pattern of the Byakhee is controlled by a modulation of the anti-gravity field coupled with wing movements - the wings working as rudder, airbreaks and as a means to further move the baricenter (a bit like the tail of a jumping cat). A damaged byakhee can therefore still break/brake his fall - and on land he can be a killer anyway. Just to make things more complex, let's also say that the whole "flight" thing is so complex (anti-gravitational modulation? Are you kidding?) that the Byakhee has a second, specialized brain-like ganglium at the base of its spine-equivalent, placed therefore as a conjunction between the central nervous system and the anti-gravity generator. Nice touch when the guys perform an ultrafast post-mortem as the dead critter melts away (or whatever). Also notice that the above means that the wings move during flight, but with a rithm that is not the rithm of a mundane flying animal - movements are much slower, less frequent and maybe strangely jerky. The wings might also work as . photon wing - Byakhees can notoriously travel through space, to other star system. I know, I know - you guys out there are already fiddling with your slide rules to show that the average byakhee wingspan is ridiculously small for the purpose. But we can couple it with the anti-g generator. Or maybe Byakhees use the painfully slow photon wing propulsion when they swarm en-masse, moving from a system to another. Plague of Byakhees, anybody? . athmosphere re-entry thermal shield - the critter wraps itself up and shots through the athmosphere. Meaning by extension that the wing are one of the best shields available, and would make the critter almost invincible. Not good. Let's say the thing is incredibly temperature resistant but highly brittle. This should re-establish game balance. . thermal dissipation I have this image in my brain somewhere, of the Byakhee shaking the frost of deep space from his wings. Thermoregulation for a critter that can go from almost absolute 0 of deep space to athmosphere re-entry extremes must be hell. Almost literally. But why be shy? Let's complicate things a further bit - evolution had a day out when Byakhees first surfaced, right? . extra sensory organ Let's imagine that the external layer of the wing is a chitinous shield (made of overlapping scales to retain flexibility), while the inner layer is made of some kind of sensory tissue - the B. uses it to get his bearings as he navigates through space, or to get his man when sent on a mission, or whatever. A carpet of low-specialization protoeyes - billions of them, sensible to a wide spectrum of electromagnetical radiation - would be nice, but we are open to further suggestions. [the aspect of the inner surface might remind an observer the microdot-like pattern surface of a butterfly's wing] Now we have some more reasons for the already mentioned double brainer - massive data input and elaboration need - and for the B. being rather shy when exposing his wings to direct attacks. Alien enough? A fina note: double brainer or not, Byakhee is only rudimentarily intelligent (let's compare him to a chimp, or to the average University teacher). IIRC, there's no trace of B. culture or social organization in the texts. I just remember a mass of the things crowding the ceilings of Celaeno's Library. Unless, of course, we are missing something. And here I stop. Cheers. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:34:44 +0900 (JST) From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) Subject: Re: Bat Attack! (was: RE: DG: Leng and St. Jerome) >Byakhee, Mi-Go, Night Gaunts, etc. Sometimes we try for more variety with >insect wings, bird wings, pterodactyl wings (basically a variation of bat >wings). Can anyone come up with better alien structures? Or alien >descriptions of any anatomy, like the hands/feet above. In my universe, the Migo wings are completely unaerodynamic -- hell, they don't need to be, they fly through space after all. My explanation is that, as the Migo exist partially in another plane, they are, in effect _climbing_ rather than flying. The wings are actually tendrils that snake out and pull them forward through the fabric of the universe. What do you think? Jay - ------------------------------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ - ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 04:41:46 +0100 (CET) From: Delta Green Subject: Re: DG: More on Leng and the Cthulhu Cult (and Hastur, too!) > Just what IS Hastur's role in the Mythos scheme of things? Hastur is the Half-Brother of Cthulhu and his worst enemy..if not by other reasons , by market laws....they are competitors for the same market In the Derleth's vision of the Mythos , Hastur lives in a far star , and is not interested on Earth by itself but as the jail of his foe , Cthulhu. In the tales that Cthulhu & Hastur are mentioned , Hastur aid the humans in fligth Cthulhu (at the cost of some SAN points , of course) , sending winged messengers to transport them. Where do you see an octopoid depictation of Hastur? He has no known cultist among humans , almost none that has been related to me in HPL or Derleth tales.... See you Shoggoth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:59:06 -0500 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: More on Leng and the Cthulhu Cult (and Hastur, too!) A Shoggoth wrote: >Hastur is the Half-Brother of Cthulhu and his worst enemy..if not by other >reasons , by market laws....they are competitors for the same market Well, I knew he's Cthulhu's half-brother and hates his guts. The competitors for the same market bothers me, though - it gives humans too much importance. That's why I was asking for alternative suggestions. As it is, the King in Yellow ain't too far off from teaching men new ways to shout and revel and kill. >In the Derleth's vision of the Mythos , Hastur lives in a far star , and >is not interested on Earth by itself but as the jail of his foe , Cthulhu. Sure. Chaosium convention connects Hastur to the King in Yellow through that quote in "The Whisperer in Darkness" about the supposed cult of evil men that seek to hurt the Mi-Go and are connected with "Hastur and the Yellow Sign." I'd have to re-check THE HASTUR CYCLE, but I don't think that Hastur is explicitly named as the King in Yellow in fiction. And while we're discussing Derleth's fiction, don't the Elder Gods seem to have done a singularly bad job in imprisoning Cthulhu and kin? I mean, R'lyeh rises periodically, Ithaqua can wander around and send wind elementals all over the world, Hastur and Cthugha can be summoned easily enough... >In the tales that Cthulhu & Hastur are mentioned , Hastur aid the humans >in fligth Cthulhu (at the cost of some SAN points , of course) , sending >winged messengers to transport them. Right, the "Trail of Cthulhu" stories. Great Old One as radio dispatcher. >Where do you see an octopoid depictation of Hastur? He has no known >cultist among humans , almost none that has been related to me in HPL or >Derleth tales.... I'll have to check the CTHULHU MYTHOS BIBLIOGRAPHY ($27.95, worth every penny) to see if any cultists are mentioned in fiction - there are lots in Chaosium's work, from everybody's favorite heavy metal band in CTHULHU NOW to the merry crew in "King of Shreds and Patches." The only cultist I can think of offhand in Mythos fiction is the priest in Tibet in "The Sandwin Compact." The octopoid appearance of Hastur comes from Derleth's "The Gable Window": "Nov. 17, '21. Utterly alien landscape. Not of earth so far as I know. Black heavens, some stars. Crags of porphyry or some similar substance. Foreground a deep lake. Hali? In five minutes the water began to ripple where something rose. Facing inward. A titanic aquatic being, tentacled. Octopoid, but far, far larger--ten--twenty times larger than the giant Octopus apollyon of the west coast. What was its neck was alone easilt fifteen rods in diameter. Could no risk chance of seeing its face and destroyed the star." Steven - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted the electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:53:16 +0100 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: KEEPERS: Catholic musings Greetings. Mark is at it again ;> > Several thoughts about the Order of the Sword of St. Jerome (Jerry's Kids!) As they are close to my heart, I'll post some comments. The St.Jerome FAQ is taking shape. > If I'm interpreting correctly, the OSSJ learns everything they can about the >Mythos and Mythos magic, but absolutely, positively will not utilize Mythos >magic. Am I correct? Sounds convincing. But there could be different views among the high-ups in the Order. [my NPC "Father Sabatini" is clearly a ruthless machiavellian bastard that would use any kind of weapon for his own ends] > If so, from their POV, any use of the tools of the Mythos would be a victory >for the Mythos, and the first step towards (damnation?). Which would make them >leery of DG or PISCES. Call me a conservative fool but I guess that in the long run their point of view is correct - using the weapons of the Mythos brings you closer to the Mythos. The great old ones want you to become like them, to teach you some new games, after all. Anyway, the Order probably sees lay investigators (and investigator organizations) as meddling fools that can do more harm than good. The opinion is of course mutual. > How does the Mythos fit into their cosmology? The Mythos ignores God, how > does God feel about the Mythos? Did he create it? Is it from outside his > Creation? (I am of course asking these questions from their POV) You wanna see me excommunicated, right? Right. Going the gnostic way, there should be a way to reconcile Mythos and Christianity, but I have not enough data (yet) to formulate a complete theory. I generally see the Order as rather pragmatic in its fight - God is out there but he won't come and solve your problems if you do not get at work on your own in the first place. In the end the Order will triumph because they are Right. [in their POV, at least] > Does the OSSJ feel that Mythos evil originates with Satan? Do they feel > the Mythos is evil, or merely toxic? Has the OSSJ reinterpreted Satan > in light of the Mythos? Do they still believe in Satan? If they don't, > do they pretend otherwise? I found all priests (and arguably all Christians) believe in Satan - not in the horned-demon sense but in a more philosopical, abstract sense. The Order probably uses Satan as a general metaphore for the all-out refusal of God's Grace, and therefore sees the Mythos as a particularly concrete and active facet of the satan concept. Maybe they have data to explain some satanic occurrences to actual Mythos activity. Most likely they leave the routine satanic events to plain vanilla Church authority. > Is the OSSJ view of the Mythos the same as the Vatican's? Or does the Vatican >take it's cues from the OSSJ on matters Mythos? Does the OSSJ conceal info >from the Vatican? No No Yes (I think). "The Vatican" is a rather fuzzy concept. Let's say in general that the Catholoc church does not know about the Mythos, nor does the Vatican acknowledge the Mythos. Some selected elements in the hierarchy know and pass the relevant cases on to the Order, but it's all a conspiracy, very DG like. Maybe in the past it was different, but I honestly doubt it. > And dammit, I lost the URL! Davide? For the Order's page, the URL is http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/zenith/134/stjerome.htm For the Vatican, there's a link from the St. Jerome "Odds & Ends" section. > A link in The Ice Cave? Ask and it shall be given onto you. I'll put up a short links collection including St.Jerome, Emerald Hammer, and so on in the cave as soon as possible. > While reading Vampire$, I had an idea. Not a bad idea, too. > Which is my next thread: national saints. >Patrick = Ireland >George = England >Andrew = Scotland >Lucia = Sweden (IIRC) >Joan = France (?) >hehe, I grew up in Naples, so I vote St. Mark for ALL of Italy! Cool name, >too. (But I could be persuaded otherwise) Italy - St. Francis of Assisi (the one that talked with animals), and Saint Catherine of Siena (a female branch? Most terrorist hits in Italy in the '70s were carried out by women...). Keep in mind that each Italian city has its own patron saint. For Naples it is San Gennaro, for Turin St. John. St. Mark is the patron of Venice - incidentally home of Italy's trade-mark carnival, a very serious, high-brow sort of thing that was once compared by a writer to "a masque in the carcass of a colossal dying animal". Suggestive, eh? I won't go into the Knights of St.Jude thing, but St.Jude is clearly Delta Green patron saint - and probably St.Jerome code/slang to indicate delta greeners is "the St. Jude chorus". Just an idea, of course. End of rant. Let's see what else comes out of this. Take care. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:19:41 -0800 From: Mark Williamson Subject: Re: DG: KEEPERS: Catholic musings > I found all priests (and arguably all Christians) believe in Satan - not in > the horned-demon sense but in a more philosopical, abstract sense. The > Order probably uses Satan as a general metaphore for the all-out refusal of > God's Grace, and therefore sees the Mythos as a particularly concrete and > active facet of the satan concept. > Maybe they have data to explain some satanic occurrences to actual Mythos > activity. Most likely they leave the routine satanic events to plain > vanilla Church authority. > > > Is the OSSJ view of the Mythos the same as the Vatican's? Or does the > Vatican > >take it's cues from the OSSJ on matters Mythos? Does the OSSJ conceal info > >from the Vatican? > On the subject of the Devil and evil - the Vatican recently declared that they were chaning their doctrine on the devil. They declared the devil was no longer a taditional personified demon (which was how the Catholic church had always perceived him/it), but rather a general force which encourges people to commit evil deeds. Which sounds a lot like Cthulhu's dreams influcing us all. - - Mark Williamson ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V1 #370 ********************************