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deltagreen-digest        Thursday, July 8 1999        Volume 01 : Number 501




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:25:43 -0000 
From: "Crossingham, Adam" <Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: DG: Retirement of Agents

Wouldn't retirement mean that the agent just didn't get called to go to the
Opera anymore?

- --
Adam Crossingham
Work: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com
Home: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 03:48:51 -0500
From: Joseph Camp <alphonse@delta-green.com>
Subject: Re: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

>> The "Retirement" thread got me thinking. How's this: During a rare lucid
>> moment, Ronald Reagan lets slip some terrible secret to Nancy. She realizes
>> her husband has been "neuralized" by MJ-12, and that they're doing something
>> terribly un-American. Who can she contact?

This is strangely reminescent of that Saturday Night Live bit of sketch 
comedy I saw many years ago, while Reagan was still in office. Reagan 
appears, conducting various photo-ops in the Oval Office with his usual 
stammering, verging-on-Alzheimer's politesse. As soon as all the 
civilians are out of the room, though, he straightens up, makes all his 
advisors sit down, whips out a massive strategic map he's drawn up in his 
spare time, and starts barking out orders. When a girl scout is ushered 
in for another photo, he goes back to his public persona; as soon as 
she's gone, he's back to the totally-in-control micro-managing martinet 
with his finger on the pulse of the world.

Of course, it was fiction.

be seeing you,
Alphonse

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:52:13 +0100 
From: Ward Phil <Phil.Ward@eu.sony.com>
Subject: RE: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

Nancy Reagan's Astrologer, AKA Agent (Mystic) MEG.

After all, we have someone on the National Security council, why not 
somebody with the president's ear... Star Wars was of course intended to
point outwards.... or shoot down Shan Launch vehicles.. Imagine all the
other
things we once had control over. No wonder MJ-12 had to wait till  Ronnie
was out of the way till the offed poor old Reggie...

Somebody ought to write this adventure immediately and post it to DG.com
perhaps for inclusion in Section 8, perhaps as a serious one :)

Later
Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	EHuelshoff@t-online.de [SMTP:EHuelshoff@t-online.de]
> Sent:	Thursday, July 08, 1999 7:42 AM
> To:	deltagreen@nocturne.org
> Subject:	Re: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed
> Regarding who she could contact: Didn't she have an astrologer she
> trusted?
> This might even be her DG-contact.
	<snippage>


*************************************************************
This email is confidential and should not be used by anyone 
who is not the original intended recipient. Sony cannot 
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the 
sender's own and not made on behalf of Sony.
*************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 02:50:24 -0700
From: Scott Cleverdon <clever1@earthlink.net>
Subject: DG: real life grey assault...

At the following site is a fascinating transcript of guests on the Art Bell
radio show that were walking in the woods in the Pacific Northwest with
their dog.   The dog ran ahead and started barking and howling.  The
arrived to see their dog surrounded by a blur of air and could faintly make
out the whirling movements of some small, inhumanly fast creature.   There
are photographs a a full transcript of the interview.  There is very
interestingly a fascinating description of what happens with a major sanity
loss related to a incident such as this.

regards

scott cleverdon

------------------------------

Date: 08 Jul 99 10:44:50 +0100
From: Peter Devlin <pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk>
Subject: DG: Masonic Conspiracies

Now this is intriguing:

>to the extent that outside of lawyers and circus performers, no
>other vocation has a higher percentage of Masons than railroad
>workers.

In the UK the highest %age of FreeMasons apparently occurs within the Police force. Recent Home Office guidelines on police officers voluntarily revealing their membership of the Masons have been largely ignored. I believe that there is now a Bill or Paper due to be passed which will make it mandatory rather than voluntary. What %age of US cops are FreeMasons?

As for FreeMasons and ley lines? I've heard many strange ideas in my time but that is a new one on me. Surely we listmembers can do far better than that!

Cheers   :-)  -->  :-0

Peter Devlin

Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/
The South Side - http://???
Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 06:06:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Man in Black <mib@cyberspace.org>
Subject: RE: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Ward Phil wrote:

> Nancy Reagan's Astrologer, AKA Agent (Mystic) MEG.

Maybe, I myself think that the secret identity of ANDREA is none other
than... (ominous fanfare) Nancy Reagan! And she would have gotten away
with it too if it weren't for those meddling kids!

> Somebody ought to write this adventure immediately and post it to DG.com
> perhaps for inclusion in Section 8, perhaps as a serious one :)

I'm seriously considering it as a scenario in a humorous vein. We'll show
the X-files that we're not only scarier, with a more distinguished
lineage, but funnier too.

Possible secret identities of ANDREA, Roll 1d6:

1 - Reggie Fairfield in Drag (dead too for you RSPT fans)
2 - Nancy Reagan.
3 - Position Open, Help Wanted
4 - Gavin Ross
5 - Ysidra, that sly fox.
6 - Julia Child (She was in the CIA, maybe she's an expert poisoner)

The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E PLuribus Unum
[Pyramidal caudal pole] : [The Pathway is crossed ] : [...into darkness] 
http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 06:27:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Man in Black <mib@cyberspace.org>
Subject: Re: DG: real life grey assault...

On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Scott Cleverdon wrote:

> At the following site [We interrupt this quote for a Smack-Down]

Alright, where is the damn URL, you tease? This better not be some stupid
Majestic trick, young man! I wonder how similar their story was to Travis
"Fire in the Sky" Walton's experience. I wonder, because some idiot never
bothered to include an URL, maybe using Microsoft software in the email
game isn't such a genius move. Get a better chessboard! 

The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum
http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:29:36 +0100 
From: Ward Phil <Phil.Ward@eu.sony.com>
Subject: DG: RE: Masonic Conspiracies

there are supposed to be voluntary registsers held by police forces of those
members that are also freemasons, but it has (strangely enough) a very low
take-up rate...

They are going to make it mandatory, or at least vote on it. But nobody
appears to have mentioned, judges, magistrates, and the rest of the
legal profession. Now there's a  useful place for a brother mason, 
but nobody's done anything about logging them IIRC. 
Anybody know different?
Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Peter Devlin [SMTP:pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk]
> Sent:	Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:45 AM
> To:	Delta Green List
> Subject:	DG: Masonic Conspiracies
> 
> In the UK the highest %age of FreeMasons apparently occurs within the
> Police force. Recent Home Office guidelines on police officers voluntarily
> revealing their membership of the Masons have been largely ignored. I
> believe that there is now a Bill or Paper due to be passed which will make
> it mandatory rather than voluntary. What %age of US cops are FreeMasons?


*************************************************************
This email is confidential and should not be used by anyone 
who is not the original intended recipient. Sony cannot 
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the 
sender's own and not made on behalf of Sony.
*************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:31:01 +0100
From: "Adam Landau" <alandau@talk-radio.co.uk>
Subject: RE: DG: Arkady Renko goes to Cuba

The Man in Black is : dead sexxxy!

That is dead sexy - Not dead and sexy???

- ----------
From: 	The Man in Black[SMTP:mib@cyberspace.org]
Sent: 	08 July 1999 01:17
To: 	Delta Green List
Subject: 	Re: DG: Arkady Renko goes to Cuba

On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Joseph Camp wrote:

> Interestingly, some of the reader comments at the above Amazon page 
> suggest that Smith's view of Havana is about five years out of date. But 
> that can certainly be fudged in your campaign.

While over @ amazon.com I came across this lovely tidbit:

> Delta Green 
>                       
> by Adam Scott Glancy (Illustrator), Blair Reynolds (Editor), Dennis
> Detwiller (Illustrator), Heather Hudson (Illustrator),
> Toren Atkinson (Illustrator) 

Something in the process is awry. I think it's the effect of alcohol on
certain gaming company employees, or maybe sabotage by tipsy competitors.
The eventual correction should use humorous and fallacious job titles like
(Head Illuminator), (Smack-Down), (Goat-Boy), and so forth. 

The Man in Black is : dead sexxxy!
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E PLuribus Unum
[Pyramidal caudal pole] : [The Pathway is crossed ] : [...into darkness] 
http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:31:08 +0100 
From: Ward Phil <Phil.Ward@eu.sony.com>
Subject: RE: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

Of course there's always the AGENT ANDREA.jorden@carnwyffa.u-net.com
for those of you who've had me accidentally mail you from my SO's account.

It probably put the wind up Rob when I did it... ;)
Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	The Man in Black [SMTP:mib@cyberspace.org]
> Sent:	Thursday, July 08, 1999 11:07 AM
> To:	Delta Green List
> Subject:	RE: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed
	<SNIP>
	Possible secret identities of ANDREA, Roll 1d6:
	<SNIP>



*************************************************************
This email is confidential and should not be used by anyone 
who is not the original intended recipient. Sony cannot 
accept liability for statements made which are clearly the 
sender's own and not made on behalf of Sony.
*************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:30:13 GMT0BST
From: Robert Thomas <ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

> Of course there's always the AGENT ANDREA.jorden@carnwyffa.u-net.com
> for those of you who've had me accidentally mail you from my SO's account.
> 
> It probably put the wind up Rob when I did it... ;)
> Phil

I haven't had any mail of Andrea unless it's the kind of hand 
delivered mail I should be really worried about.

Rob.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:50:52 -0400
From: Steven Kaye <box_nine@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DG: Pamplona Bulls' race

At 5:05 PM -0400 7/7/99, gable wrote:


>Still drawing a blank on how to hook all this into the Miri Nigri and
>Chaugnar Faugn, outside of a conflict within the European Tcho-tcho tribes.

Chaugnar Faugn's a tricky one to tie in, although the Greeks and Cretans
knew of him, as the following passage from THE HORROR FROM THE HILLS makes
clear:

"We are in propinquity to the primal, hidden horror that festers at the
root of being, with the old, hidden loathsomeness which the Greeks and
Romans veiled under the symbolical form of a man-beast - the feeder, the
all. The Greeks knew, for the horror left its lair to ravage, striding
eastward in the dawn across Europe, wading waist-deep in the dark Ionian
seas, looming monstrous at nightfall over Delos, and Samothrace and far-off
Crete. A nimbus of starfoam engirdled its waist; suns, constellations
gleamed in its eyes. But its breath brought madness, and its embrace,
death. The feeder - the all."

According to Greek myth, Taurus became a constellation to commemorate Zeus'
kidnapping of Europa and taking her to Crete, Zeus having become a white
bull for the occasion. Zeus and Europa had a kid, Minos [which seems to
have been a title, rather than a proper name], whose grandson built the
Labyrinth for the Minotaur. You might be able to make a link between the
Miri Nigri taking young men and women as sacrifices to Chaugnar Faugn and
the Athenians sending their young people to be sacrificed to the Minotaur,
I suppose. There's also the proud tradition of Shub-Niggurath worship in
Crete, and the above quote could also be used to suggest Chaugnar Faugn as
the reality behind the myth of Pan.

Steven





- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Kaye
box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com

"Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted the
electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:39:34 +0100
From: "Adam Landau" <alandau@talk-radio.co.uk>
Subject: RE: DG: Retirement of Agents

I think that this is an issue obviously resolved best in play.  Player characters will often have a driving force that will keep them going to the bitter end, even if DG higher ups want them to retire. NPCs are a different matter - In Delta Green and MJ, as in other covert organisations, you probably never entirely leave the cause.  

The way I see it is throughout your career, you become compromised through your actions which creates a sword of damocles over your head if you try to expose anything.  You also develop a dependency on the political and physical protection of the rest of the organisation, once you've put yourself  in the line of fire.  This fact alone implies that DG agents can never retire completely as old enemies rarely forget and likely have the power of the Mythos at their disposal.

I can see an argument for more FMJ retirements from MJ as the organisation itself is probably more paranoid internally but even this would have to be fully justified within the campaign arc - I hate the Hollywood style - kill 15 innocent people to get to the 1 person they are really after - any disappearances or use of force by an organisation against it's own personnel or innocent bystanders would have to be weighed very heavily against the risk of compromise or exposure...

ADAM
Nan-chu'an: "Your body is unusually big.  Isn't your straw hat too small?"
Huang Po: "Though my hat be small, the entire universe is within it."

Zen Mondo (Azathoth as a fashion accessory!)


- ----------
From: 	David Farnell[SMTP:daf@iwa.att.ne.jp]
Sent: 	08 July 1999 05:12
To: 	Delta Green List
Subject: 	Re: DG: Retirement of Agents

From: <ScottSaylo@aol.com>:
>  Or is there a way to let them forget everything they learned? I mean,
Reagan
> knew
>  of the Greys and now he has forgotten everything....
> Yes. he did retire didn't he? Therefore he has forgotten EVERYTHING. MJ 12
> knows no limits.

Retired with brain damage. Sure, they call it Alzheimer's, but we know it's
something from the Cookbook. I assume they'd be less artful about it with
lesser retirees. I still say the only real retirement is the old ".45
retirement plan." Those who are damaged (like the victim of the
eyelids/tongue/balloon-animal event) or too burned out to go on can
pseudo-retire (go on inactive status), but never really leave DG or MJ-12
(and they might be called back in if things get desperate). If there's even
a hint you'll be peddling your secrets, you'll learn one last secret: the
real identity of ANGELA. Boom.

Dave
I wonder what Reagan found out that forced them to do a mind-wipe on him.
Oh, and I like the Village idea. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:46:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Man in Black <mib@cyberspace.org>
Subject: DG: Another Open Source for Delta Green

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/deltagreen

I have recently founded a Yahoo club for Delta Green, which can be found
above. I'll probably be making an announcement on alt.horror.cthulhu and
Strange-Aeons-L (Where is the webpage for Strange Aeons?) 

Hopefully this can serve as a conduit for some of the tradecraft issues
I've discussed in earlier posts. Still don't know about about PGP and
Yahoo tho'. "Tradecraft" sounds like an excellent euphemism for
Live-Action; or worse, In Character. It was IC: posts that drove me off
rec.games.frp.storyteller, that's why you don't see MiB material older
than 95-96 on Ander's Mage Page anymore. 

(http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~asa/Mage/nwo.html)

I was actually thinking that these web-message boards, chatrooms, IRQ's,
and now this Yahoo Club thingy would serve the function of "cyberspace
handouts" for a *real* RPG, and not those dress-up games or blabbermouth
sessions that inferior intellects try to pass off as RPG's these days.

Finally I would like to request that a member of the Pagan staff accept
the rank of Co-Founder in the club or maybe even try to get "official"
status from Yahoo. Hell, I'll even take Shane "Zealot.com" Ivey on the
team when he's not losing control of that doomed website. Be sure to take
an intern wearing a red shirt with you to all staff meetings Shane, it'll
hurt a lot less in the end. (heh heh heh "end" huh huh huh) 

The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E PLuribus Unum
[Pyramidal caudal pole] : [The Pathway is crossed ] : [...into darkness] 
http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:31:15 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

In a message dated 7/8/99 3:55:03 AM EST, alphonse@delta-green.com writes:

<< 
 This is strangely reminescent of that Saturday Night Live bit of sketch 
 comedy I saw many years ago, while Reagan was still in office. Reagan 
 appears, conducting various photo-ops in the Oval Office with his usual 
 stammering, verging-on-Alzheimer's politesse. As soon as all the 
 civilians are out of the room, though, he straightens up, makes all his 
 advisors sit down, whips out a massive strategic map he's drawn up in his 
 spare time, and starts barking out orders. When a girl scout is ushered 
 in for another photo, he goes back to his public persona; as soon as 
 she's gone, he's back to the totally-in-control micro-managing martinet 
 with his finger on the pulse of the world.
  >>

Or the earlier episode on SNL where he performs his presidential functions 
and when the room empties one of his "handlers" yells "and CUT" they are 
using his persona and have him convinced he is making a movie about being 
president. He complains about the long shooting schedule saying this one is 
taking even longer than when I played the Governor of California!"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:43:02 -0000 
From: "Crossingham, Adam" <Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: DG: French DG Agency Outline

USFORREC1@aol.com/Dave K writes:

<<<  I hope some of you can find them interesting and helpful.  These are
just the preliminaries 
and the rough draft, it will be fleshed out a bit more down the road.>>>

It was good to see. I've got some comments but these are very much personal
opinions. Please alter to suit your taste....

<<< In 1915, during World War One, French intelligence officials established

within the Deuxieme Bureau a paranormal research group.  This group was
known 
as the Bureau for Special Phenomenon and had a total of 15 officers and 
enlisted personnel and a very small budget.  They were to investigate
strange 
reports from the Allied forces that might involve paranormal activity during

the war. >>> 

I did this with a similar set-up with a French led Allied effort - they were
investigating 'Statistical Anomalies' though - no point in telling the whole
world (and your enemy) that your Intelligence branch believes in ghosts and
similar.

However I think that a creation of a special unit in the twentieth century
for the French is a little late. Your unit may not be directly descended
from an earlier unit but there should have been one to mention in the
history. There are a whole heap of pre-20C Mythos connections to France to
can be exploited, i.e. Comte d'Erlette, Fenris, Averoigne - I'm sure Dan
Harms can suggest a few more, and I'm going to research some as well. 

Also the French are, well - 'pragmatic' - in their politics. A truly French
approach to the mythos could give a French unit a different flavour to DG
(never deal with, just kill the mythos), Karotechia (we want to be the
mythos), Pisces (we are the mythos) or SD8 (unknown?). Perhaps 'live and let
live if in our favour'. A French unit that knows and can deal with France's
occult and mythos underworld could be a terrifying thing depending on how
you look at it.

The French seem to have quite a extensive occult history - they've got an
RPG based on it (Nephilim - how important world events always lead back to
France). it's more than enough to find an excuse to base an ancient occult
order/unit on. In no particular order, and off the top of my head: the
Merovingian bloodline, the Cathars, the Templars, the French Masonic
tradition, Vatican connections to French monarchy. 

<<< The two main focuses of both the Bureau and French intelligence as 
a whole was the White and Red Russians entering France and political turmoil

(much Communist inspired) simmering in the French colonies. >>>

The French were spying on Russian émigré and dissident groups in France in
the 19th century. There was a special department of the Surete (or
something) that Czarist Russia paid France to operate in order to receive
intelligence on what Russian dissidents were getting up to. The French were
also interested because of the large amount of trouble the Russian expats
could make on France's own doorstep if they wanted to.

<<< These two groups, who became dubbed the "Faithless" and "Faithful"
within the 
Bureau, both had keys to the true puzzle but each was wrapped up too much in

their own beliefs to connect the dots to the true forces at work. >>>

Nice split/schism. Every decent organisation has to have a political fissure
so that the players can choose to side with the wrong side.

	<<<  Some members of the Bureau fled to England to serve with 
the Free French forces.  [snip] 	Those that fled to Britain
approached Brigadier General de Gaulle to 
set up a similar organization to the Bureau within his intelligence 
organization, the Bureau Central de Renseignements et d'Action (the Central 
Bureau of Information and Action- BCRA). >>> 

This could also lead some interesting links to SOE sections F and RF, and
Pisces.

<<< The SDECE and the Office were hampered by not being allowed to operate
counterespionage 
activities within France proper and its lack of arrest powers. >>>

However not being allowed to, didn't stop SDECE from doing so. It was SDECE
involvement in domestic espionage that led it eventually being reorganised
into the DGSE which has a specific remit that it cannot operate domestically
built into it's charter. That's left principally to the DST and some other
smaller agencies

<<< CIA cooperation increased during this time frame.  Operations 
throughout Africa brought closer ties and more exposure to the unknown. >>>

Isn't this a little unlikely. The late 1960s was when De Gaulle was at his
most Francophonic, instigating Operation Ascot in Canada. I would have
thought that SDECE would have been resisting attempts by the CIA to get into
Francophone Africa in order to preserve it's ex-colonial influence, and
extending it's influence into Anglophone Africa.

<<< The reorganization of the Office took it out of the hands of the DGSE 
and placed it under a committee.  The heads of all the national police
forces 
and intelligence organizations, along with the President, oversee all its 
actions directly.  It no longer can set its own policies.  Each organization

will contribute a number of personnel, money and resources to the running of

the Office.  It is now a secret but independent organization and follows the

whims of its masters' policies.  In some ways it is more efficient than 
before and in others more restricted. 
Its duties now include the old investigation of occult groups and 
phenomenon that could impact the interests of France.  They also focus on 
American interests in UFOs and Soviet/Russian interests in psychic
abilities. 
 More emphasis is placed on industrial espionage, in the hopes of uncovering

connections between the US government and alien technology.  An American 
company, NWI, has drawn some recent attention through this avenue.  The old 
guard that remains still attempts to run its own operations in traditional 
areas but has been reined in somewhat.>>>

This sounds like a promising set-up for the current version. However Dave's
description and a later statement of the Office having 400 staff sounds at
odds with each other. 

The Office could now be a co-ordinating office. Staff could either be
seconded from agencies like the DG (FBI/Special Branch equiv.), DST (FBI/MI5
equiv.), DGSE, DCPJ (CID equiv.), Gendarmerie, etc and tasked directly to
investigate specific cases; or use the DG, DST, DGSE, DCPJ, etc to carry out
investigations for it and report back without ever knowing what preciously
it was reporting to. Permanent staff levels could therefore be quite low.

A national committee structure could also hark back to earlier centuries
when mythos suppression was under the control of the King or his courtiers
and operated centrally.

- --
Adam Crossingham
Work: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com
Home: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:41:22 -0400
From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." <jimmiebjr@olg.com>
Subject: Re: DG: Space Shots (was Re: DG: French Guyana)

> > I figure they're mostly doing this kind of salvage work on a freelance
> > basis
> 
> This sort of work would never pass unnoticed by even NASA. Besides, who
> would want a bunch of big metal cylinders anyway? I also don't see any
> Star-Spawn as being particularly interested in this sort of heavy lifting.
> The whole concept just doesn't pass muster. NWI Aerospace certainly
> contracts to build rockets, so they don't want folks messing with their
> shit. Majestic doesn't like scrutiny into the American Space program, The
> Shan might try this once, but then get slapped down by the big boys. I
> can't think of any reason whatsoever for Marsh Salvage Company to
> suicidally insert themselves into the affair. 
>  

Well here's my take on that. Underwater salvage work is perhaps the most inherently
dangerous profession on Earth, and it has some pretty hard limits built into it. the
Deep Ones are the best suited to handle the work, since they can stay submerged
indefinitely and seem immune to the kind of pressure you might find on deeper
wrecks. For those things reasons, they'd be quite worthwhile, for very specific
tasks. They do work that's relatively easy for them, but quite dangerous for us.
Otherwise, the Big Boys pretty much ignore them. While they're being ignored, they
can salvage the sloppy seconds from the wrecks, and who knows what they'll find
valuable that the Big Boys may find insignificant? Besides, it's not necessarily the
big shiny cylindrs the DOs are interested in, but what's inside them. They wouldn't
be heavy lifters, they'd be the guys taking stuff apart for the valuable stuff
inside.

> > And what of that unspeakable payload? Could it have survived, and if it
> > has, where is it now? 
> 
> Well, I'm inclined to say it blew up. But maybe the Deep Ones got it?
> Hmmm... Maybe the Marsh Salvage Co. is onto something.
> 

Okay, on this one I have no idea, but I think a scenario is coming.

And here's another one. What might happen if a rocket carrying a classified paylod
were to crash land right on top of a DO city?

- -Jimmie
Who thinks the movie "The Abyss" could be one he** of a good CoC/DG scenario.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:44:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com
Subject: DG: The Fate

Just got my copy of 'the fate' eyes only volume two.  Do NOT mess with the
nice mr. alzis!  My god man!  Look at the spells!

I see the tradition major villian being a spiritual powerhouse is being kept
alive and well in the CoC universe.  Other than that I really liked the
setup of the Fate.  All in all a very good book.  My compliments to whomever
wrote it.  Same for the Machinations of the MiGo.  I esp liked the
commentary on your wonderful new life as a brain-in-a-jar.  Yech!

Jerry

You know, the CoC rulebook says something like "even if your Mythos knowledge is 100%, you still 
don't come close fully understanding its true nature." In a closely related spirit, instead of 
his being Nyarly, I like to see Alziz as the ultimate foolish human poser who, despite his 
ambition, immortality, and great power will ultimately be squished when the GOOs return. I can 
just see him finally reaching his breaking point as his mind finally dissolves into shattered 
chaos when he realizes that he never really had any real undestanding of the Mythos forces, and 
that he may have been just barely powerful enough to be considered their pawn.

What's worse, he may be just powerful enough that the GOOs will actually notice him before they  
destroy him.

Marco 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:52:37 +0200
From: Davide Mana <doctor.dee@iol.it>
Subject: Re: DG: Reagan's Brain--a seed of a scenario seed

Greetings.

It's brainstorming time....
SuperDave Farnell wrote

>The "Retirement" thread got me thinking. How's this: During a rare lucid
>moment, Ronald Reagan lets slip some terrible secret to Nancy. She realizes
>her husband has been "neuralized" by MJ-12, and that they're doing something
>terribly un-American. Who can she contact?
>
>Well, somehow she knows how to contact Delta Green. Maybe she and Alphonse
>were high-school sweethearts, I don't know. So the players' job is to stop
>an MJ project and, at the same time, help Nancy Reagan get some payback,
>keeping it all out of the public's eye of course. C'mon, now, Nancy Reagan
>as a DG Friendly? How can you resist?

Try this one for size....

In a rare lucid moment, Ronnie Regan realizes that Nancy is the MJ12
control agent that's been keeping an eye on him all this time, and feeding
him memory drugs; resorting to some of his old Tinseltown gimmicks he slips
away long enough to reach a phone.
Only the fairfield guys can help him now....

Ronald Reagan as DG man in the House?
Try and resist this one.

Cheers!

						Davide Mana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:17:42 EDT
From: USFORREC1@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: French DG Agency Outline

In a message dated 7/8/99 9:46:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM writes:

<< I did this with a similar set-up with a French led Allied effort - they 
were
 investigating 'Statistical Anomalies' though - no point in telling the whole
 world (and your enemy) that your Intelligence branch believes in ghosts and
 similar.>>

	I like that.  The approach I originally went for was that they were 
almost a "joke" agency with their occult leanings, crackpot ideas and small 
group.  They could hide in plain sight if discovered and most of the major 
players had groups that studied similar phenomenon.  On the surface none of 
these groups ammounted to much (but we all know better :) ).
 
 <<However I think that a creation of a special unit in the twentieth century
 for the French is a little late. Your unit may not be directly descended
 from an earlier unit but there should have been one to mention in the
 history. There are a whole heap of pre-20C Mythos connections to France to
 can be exploited, i.e. Comte d'Erlette, Fenris, Averoigne - I'm sure Dan
 Harms can suggest a few more, and I'm going to research some as well. >>

	I have most of this covered under one of my other in-campaign 
groups-the Vatican's Order of the Pen and Sword (yes, the acronym in English 
spells OPS-inside joke).  In a nutshell, the Christian, Judaism and Islam 
trace a common thread of creation to Abraham, a rebel against Babylon's 
mythos religion who formed the tribes of Israel.  most of the major events of 
the bible are mythos-inspired events kept in two versions.  The public 
version is the bible and has been rewritten to teach an abstract of (mythos) 
history and carry morals.  The real version contains the truth and has been 
kept in the Vatican's z collection.  The Vatican as been hiding the truth for 
centuries and fighting the war against the mythos.  St Jerome, the Templars 
and a host of other orders were part of various schisms over policy that led 
to their various fates.  France was another tool that was kept in the dark.  
These incidents were handled by the Vatican who didn't inform the Kings of 
the true findings.  (Much more will be covered when I get that Dreamlands God 
material finished).
 
 <<Also the French are, well - 'pragmatic' - in their politics. A truly French
 approach to the mythos could give a French unit a different flavour to DG
 (never deal with, just kill the mythos), Karotechia (we want to be the
 mythos), Pisces (we are the mythos) or SD8 (unknown?). Perhaps 'live and let
 live if in our favour'. A French unit that knows and can deal with France's
 occult and mythos underworld could be a terrifying thing depending on how
 you look at it.>>

	That's why I tried to make them a non-mythos aware group.  They see 
the mythos as fragments of a biger whole but either their scientific or 
religious leanings bias them.  The mythos proper is just unbelievable to 
them-they see Satan or "natural" phenomenon instead.
 
 <<The French seem to have quite a extensive occult history - they've got an
 RPG based on it (Nephilim - how important world events always lead back to
 France). it's more than enough to find an excuse to base an ancient occult
 order/unit on. In no particular order, and off the top of my head: the
 Merovingian bloodline, the Cathars, the Templars, the French Masonic
 tradition, Vatican connections to French monarchy. >>

	Again, most falls under my Vatican group and the DL God in my 
campaign.
 

<< Nice split/schism. Every decent organisation has to have a political 
fissure
 so that the players can choose to side with the wrong side.>>

	Thanks.  I feel that everybody needs a little internal tensions :)
 
<< This could also lead some interesting links to SOE sections F and RF, and
 Pisces.>>
 
	Agreed.  One of the things I've been holding off developing until I 
see what DG:CD has to say on the subject.
 
 <<< CIA cooperation increased during this time frame.  Operations 
 throughout Africa brought closer ties and more exposure to the unknown. >>>
 
 Isn't this a little unlikely. The late 1960s was when De Gaulle was at his
 most Francophonic, instigating Operation Ascot in Canada. I would have
 thought that SDECE would have been resisting attempts by the CIA to get into
 Francophone Africa in order to preserve it's ex-colonial influence, and
 extending it's influence into Anglophone Africa.>>

	That's what I thought, too.  My research sources, however, claim that 
the 60s and 70s had some very good ties between the two.  Operations in 
Angola for one were joint endevors.  A lot of this was in the shadows or as 
de Gaulle's tenure was winding down.  The DB on the other hand fought the CIA 
covertly in Indochina and generally seemed to skirmish with everybody.  The 
SDECE also worked with the CIA to give Joseph Kennedy, Jr a posthumous Legion 
of Honor.  This helped sway votes from French-Americans in Massachuttes to 
help senator JFK.  The favor supposedly off when JFK took the Presidency 
later.
	I also liked the idea of some covert cooperation between the Office 
and DG during KURTZ and  the submarine investigations.  Neither knowing they 
were recieving aid from a similar organization because both had cover groups 
(CIA & SDECE) they were using.

<< This sounds like a promising set-up for the current version. However Dave's
 description and a later statement of the Office having 400 staff sounds at
 odds with each other. 
 
 The Office could now be a co-ordinating office. Staff could either be
 seconded from agencies like the DG (FBI/Special Branch equiv.), DST (FBI/MI5
 equiv.), DGSE, DCPJ (CID equiv.), Gendarmerie, etc and tasked directly to
 investigate specific cases; or use the DG, DST, DGSE, DCPJ, etc to carry out
 investigations for it and report back without ever knowing what preciously
 it was reporting to. Permanent staff levels could therefore be quite low.
 
 A national committee structure could also hark back to earlier centuries
 when mythos suppression was under the control of the King or his courtiers
 and operated centrally.
  >>

	I wasn't clear, maybe.  The coordinating body is this leadership of 
the various agencies.  They are not part of the Office but provide logistics 
and oversee all operations.  The staff is seconded from these various 
agencies as you say, but on a bit of a permanent basis.  Other forces 
certainly can be called upon to reinforce operations as needed.  The Office 
has lost much of its independence, so can no longer make its own policy.  
Also, being under the committee allows various incidents that arise to be 
quietly shuffled from the body that discovers it to the Office for 
investigation.

- -Dave K

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:10:19 +0200
From: Davide Mana <doctor.dee@iol.it>
Subject: Re: DG: Pamplona Bulls' race

Greetings some more.

The MiB wrote...
>>  There is a strong link between bulls and the Adonis cult, which (IIRC)
was 
>> pretty much the central theme throughout The Golden Bough.
>>  Which is why the bull is slaughtered at the end of Apocalypse Now, and
why 
>> Kurtz has a copy of The Golden Bough on his desk. 
>
>Bulls were ritually slaughtered in Mithraism as well. Something about
>bathing in blood? 

The bathing in blood thing of the Mithras cult might just have been adverse
propaganda.
But we are not required to buy that one right?

For the record - one of the largest Temples of Mithras in classic times was
located in the area south of the Alps currently occupied by the town of
Turin (Torino).
Later, the location was first occupied by a monastery (hint, hint) and
later still was buried under the Turin 18th century fortifications.
Assorted crackpots mantain that the subterranean chambers are still there
and can be acessed through the town's underground network.

Turin's town crest is a bull, of course, and the Roman name was Augusta
Taurinorum.
The local pre-celts tribes were the Taurini - they came from Spain,
apparently.
Yeah, through the Pyrenees.
But of course there are crackpots out there (the same that say they know
where the Mithras temple is) that claim the town was founded by Egyptians,
and dedicated to their bull deity, Api.
And in our never enough praised Egyptian Museum there's an enormous statue
of the Api Bull, that apparently "has always been around" and that has the
ability to set off psychics and dowsers like a loud thunder sets off house
alarms.

And can we forget to mention in this rambling post the notorious Turin
hellraiser Giuseppe (IIRC) Girotto - bandit, arms dealer, part-time
south-american revolutionary, CIA contact - that "saw the light" once
caught and processed amnd joined a monastic order, becoming known to the
wider public as "Frate Mitra"?
[unsurprisingly, as in italian "mitra" means machine-gun]

Curious, eh?

						Davide Mana
						Torino, Italy
						doctor.dee@iol.it


 

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