From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #6 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, July 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 006 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:05:22 -0400 From: "Jon Capps" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Mentos - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Ewing To: Delta Green List Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: Re: DG: RE: Mentos > Speak for yourself, you distended old size-queen! We all know about > your flings with forbidden extraterrestrial love, and can shudderingly > guess that they likely stretched more than your mind, if you see what > I'm implying. Some people get a distinct tingle from the ribbed feeling > of the rigid column of the individual delicious fruity lozenges, so > provocatively snuggled in their foil wrapper. . .or so I'm told. > > Jeff --may have gone over the line with this one. > That's it! I'm complaining to the FCC ;) Jon Capps ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:52:30 -0400 From: Greg Muir Subject: Re: DG: Eyes Wide Shut > >anyone under 18 is a child (including people who are really just made of ink > >and celluloid), so that may not have been voluntary censorship. Which means > >Ranma 1/2 will never make it to US TV, darn it! > > You're not missing that much - we get it here in Italy (censored) and it's > too self indulgent to be really convincing - after half an episode all you > feel is irritation. Season 1 was by far the best, most original. The other seasons were funny to be sure but they just didn't live up to the standards of season 1, fell into the Trek-like old hat syndrome. Try to get some uncensored versions, I think you'll get a kick out of 'em. > Urusei Yatsura looks like a S. Kubric- A.C.Clarke collaboration in comparison. Naw, it just looks like a big enjoyable cluserfuck. :) "Darling!" > > >Voluntary censorship is a big issue with the comics industry right now, too. > > There's a lot of voluntary censorship _everywhere_. > It's like people became oversensitive and overprotective in certain areas. > And I've yet to see proof that shielding kids from _everything_ is a good > psychological practice. Sure as hell don't let them read about what the world is really like, might give them the idea that they should do something about it. > Is fear of trauma producing a generation of psychologically vulnerable > individuals? > Will they get maximum San loss whatever happens to them? > Just wait till our poor kids read about Clinton in their history books. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:01:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Womack Subject: Re: DG: RE: Mentos On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: [deletia] > > Jeff --may have gone over the line with this one. Ayup. Not for content, really, but in that this thread no longer has even a faint hope of ever becoming DG-relevant again. Other threads that are due for termination include the "Eyes Wide Shut" and "Blair Witch Project" discussion (gang, movies get you into trouble every time). Time to hang 'em up, folks. While I'm throwing my list-administrator weight around, it's time once again for me to point out how naughty some of you are getting about quoting an entire post from somebody else in your reply, merely to add some smart-aleck comment at the top. (You know who you are, Phil.) Remember: the delete key is your friend. End of rant. Chris Womack Keeper of the List oaktree@nocturne.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:34:24 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: Re: Kennedy campaign musings Great! Now how do we tie it all in with that Nancy Reagan thing? David Farnell -- Fukuoka, Japan "The King asked his wise men for some single thing that would make him happy when he was sad, but sad when he was happy. They consulted and came back with a ring engraved with the message, 'This Too Shall Pass.'" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:52:10 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Eyes Wide Shut From: Eckhard Huelshoff : > Why do they censor certain things and other things go uncut. I mean, why is there > any problem showing boobs on TV? They seem harmless to me. May it's be some way > of protecting the publice, probably it's a way to keep some fertility cult from > gaining new members? Probably the idea behind not showing sex on tv is a > conspiracy to "un-sex", electronically castrate the American public. On the other > hand the forbidden things tend to be the most interesting... Blame the Victorians. And the Puritans. And us, for not growing up. But making it DG-relevant: I guess this really brings it all home to Lizard-Boy McFadden's (great name for a blues musician, eh?) musings on psychology and perception. Repression may have a deeper purpose. I think the MJ boys are simply prudes stuck in a 1950s fantasy-world and have no secret agenda, but there may be something behind them that wants to keep Americans heavily repressed. That way, the backlash at the moment of release is all the greater, and Americans will become the greatest of the "killing and raping with joy" bunch. As if we weren't already. David Farnell -- Fukuoka, Japan "The King asked his wise men for some single thing that would make him happy when he was sad, but sad when he was happy. They consulted and came back with a ring engraved with the message, 'This Too Shall Pass.'" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:10:01 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: Re: Book choice From: : > also consider Frankenstein or Dracula, both classics and both widely > available. And appropriate for DG. Too bad HPL is still pretty hard to get hold of in many places. > Or Moby Dick. Everyone in the US with a degree is assumed to have read it. > Most haven't. They used Cliff Notes or rented the movie. Sad but true. It's > what happens when universities become trade schools with a degree program. Hey, I read _Moby Dick_ in grad school after avoiding it for years, and it was even worse than I'd imagined. I probably took more SAN damage from the endless and pointless "cetology" chapters than Eckhard did from his porno research. Speaking of porno, I heartily recommend Melville's earlier autobiographical (and autoerotical) novel _Typee_. Just goes to show that the classics beat any modern sexy writing hands down. (huh-huh...he said "beat!") ObDG: The Taipi tribe in the novel would make a great bunch of "innocent Polynesians" for the players to meet, work with, even marry into--then they get wiped out by the evil Tcho-tchos the next valley over. But that's a historical simulation--in the modern day, the Taipi culture (of the Maquesas Islands) has already been wiped out by being "civilized" to death, and there were reports of babies being born without skeletons after the French nuclear tests of decades gone by. Dave "Chaucerwatch" Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:33:46 -0500 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: Book choice >And that is a Eurocentric observation. In the US, they follow the Harvard >Business School model. They assume everyone steals towels and raise the base >price of everyone's room to cover the replacement. If you don't steal, they >make a bigger profit, but the house always wins. It's the Merkin Way. There are hotels in the U.S. who will charge you for taking towels, linens, etc. I'm not sure how widespread the practice is, but I know people who have found additional charges on their credit cards after a hotel stay because they took towels with them. For an interesting look at a luxury European hotel, read John LeCarre's espionage novel THE NIGHT MANAGER. be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:17:45 -1000 From: Jay Dugger Subject: Re: DG: Conscience and Moral Compass in Lovecraftian Horror The Man in Black wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Jay "Trench" Dugger wrote: > > > > CONSCIENCE IN THEORY AND PRACTICE: > > > Resolving matters of conscience work essentially in reverse of the Sanity > > > rules: a character must make an Idea Roll to realize the morally dubious > > > nature of his or her intended actions. A successful Idea Roll, much as in > > > the Temporary Insanity rules, means that the character is cognizant of > > > the gravity of the situation. A Sanity Roll is then required, although in > > > this case a success means the character has had a crisis of conscience > > > and is wracked with guilt. The game effect of this anguish is a variable > > > loss of Sanity, the amount being dependent on the severity of the moral > > > lapse. Failure means the character feels no remorse for his or her > > > actions, representing a sort of "depraved indifference" for morality like > > > that displayed by psychopathic or sociopathic individuals, and no Sanity > > > is lost. > > > > I think this works backwards. If PC makes Idea roll, then she > > understands what she did, its gravity and her guilt. With these she can > > (and hopefully does) feel remorse. This regret seems to me the beginning > > of her return to mental health. At the very least, she knows she has > > suffered an injury. If PC fails Idea roll, then she has no idea what she > > did, or doesn't understand its severity or feels no guilt. What happened to this paragraph's final two sentences? "This obliviousness marks greater moral failure and therefore a greater psychological injury. IMO, _failing_ an Idea roll should place more Sanity at risk than _making_ an Idea roll." Let me rewrite them for greater clarity. "If PC fails Idea roll, then she has no idea what she did, or doesn't understand its severity or feels no guilt. She doesn't remain innocent of her act, just ignorant of it. Without comprehending what she did, PC cannot even hope of regaining her mental health. I.e., she risks greater Sanity loss." > > That's exactly what Mikey said. If you make the Idea roll, you must make a I understood what Mikey wrote to mean something different. > SAN roll. If you fail then you go on oblivious. So Mikey proposes the > following system: > > 1) Investigator goes and does a naughty thing. > > 2) Make Idea roll. > > 2a) Idea Roll Fails: go on oblivious (no SAN loss). > Like Lenny from "Of Mice and Men" DUUUH (drool). > > 2b) Idea Roll Succeeds: "Oops, Mybad." Go to Three. > > 3) Make SAN roll. > 3a) SAN roll suceeds; guilt and remorse, shock and horror. Lose some SAN. > 3b) SAN roll fails; "So what?" No SAN Loss. > > I think 3b is what you take exception to, and I agree. Number Three should > be just like any other SAN roll. 1/1d3, 1d6/1d20, 1d10/10d10 etc. Failure > should always result in greater SAN loss. This supports my theory that [snip] I take exception to both 3b) and 2a). IMO, this system should work as above, but with the following changes. 2a) Idea Roll Fails: go on oblivious. Go to Four. 3) Make SAN roll. 3a) SAN roll succeeds; guilt and remorse, shock and horror. Lose small SAN (~1). 3b) SAN roll fails; overwhelming guilt and self-loathing. Lose SAN. 4) Make SAN roll. 4a) SAN roll succeeds; "I didn't do anything wrong, did I?" Lose small SAN. 4b) SAN foll fails; "You know, I enjoyed that." Lose SAN (slightly more than in 3b). [snip] > get for being all angsty and tormented about their naughty behavior. I > also suggest that they automatically lose some SAN no matter what, even if > it's only a measly one point. I wholeheartedly agree. > > PS: If you pull that Pallid Hound/Albino Fleabag/Bleached Puppy crap about > using "she" as a generic pronoun again I may have to do something horrible > to you that I learned in Miskatonic's English 101 Correspondence Course. > Something involving Grammar textbooks and dangling participles. > Bah! your threats mean nothing. I used "she" because the ultra-violent player from CELL F who inspired these musing belongs to the female gender. (And no, she's not the one I made protuberant eyes at.) - -- Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel Is "Pretends to have DO Taint" on the Random Sexual Perversions Table? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:03:51 +0100 From: Ward Phil Subject: DG: RE: Re: Book choice "Children born without skeletons"? Do you happen to have any references for that, because that just begs to be made into an MJ-12 test, or a devolution to something nasty engineered by the ancients... Very nasty. Phil > -----Original Message----- > From: David Farnell [SMTP:daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 5:10 AM > To: Delta Green List > Subject: DG: Re: Book choice > ObDG: The Taipi tribe in the novel would make a great bunch of "innocent > Polynesians" for the players to meet, work with, even marry into--then > they > get wiped out by the evil Tcho-tchos the next valley over. But that's a > historical simulation--in the modern day, the Taipi culture (of the > Maquesas > Islands) has already been wiped out by being "civilized" to death, and > there > were reports of babies being born without skeletons after the French > nuclear > tests of decades gone by. ************************************************************* This email is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. Sony cannot accept liability for statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not made on behalf of Sony. ************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 04:03:30 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: DG: Mentos! The Freshmaker! Found this at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3326/mentos.htm The Mentos Song Do do do dooo, do doo, do waaaah! It doesn't matter what comes, fresh goes better in life, With Mentos fresh and full of Life! Nothing gets to you, stayin fresh, stayin cool, With Mentos fresh and full of LIFE!!! Fresh goes better! Mentos freshness! Fresh goes better with Mentos, fresh and full of life! Mentos! The Freshmaker! ******me again I get the impression that the life and freshness are really important to these people. Hehe! "Fresh" has become a special word for me ever since it became the positive euphemism of choice in American douche commercials. [Ext.][Sunset] Mother and daughter are walking along scenic beach having a heart-to-heart Daughter: Mom? What do you do when you're not...fresh. Down there? Mom: Why, you distance yourself from the tribe, taking care not to be seen by the men until the curse is lifted and the demons return to the Moon. Why do you ask, Smiling Tuna? Or something like that. Most American men would rather plunge needles in their eyes than watch an entire feminine hygiene commercial. That's why they won't let go of the remote. In true 23 Enigma fashion I began to see it everywhere. In fact I saw it so often and applied to so many things, often incongruously, I came to realize that the word has acquired new meanings that dictionaries haven't documented yet. What does "New Fresh Scent" mean when describing a household cleanser? And what the hell is a Fresh Pine? And how do you get a "New FRESHER Scent?" What does fresh taste like? Because my toothpaste, iced tea, coffee, and sushi are all that flavor according to the label or menu. What does fresh smell like? Because my bread, my laundry and my deodorant all claim to smell that way. And how does an aerosol "freshen" air? Fresh is apparently the Holy Grail of (American) consumer goods. It's like the anti-Fnord. Slap it on anything to make it Good. Or do I mean double-plus good? ObDG: Wait for it. It's right around here somewhere. The MIB already mentioned neurosemantics, Alphonse invoked the C word and doesn't The Freshmaker start taking on a Herbert West/Cool Air/Gunter Frank tinge about now? Do do do dooo, do doo, do waaaah! It doesn't matter what comes, fresh goes better in life, With Mentos fresh and full of Life! Nothing gets to you, stayin fresh, stayin cool, With Mentos fresh and full of LIFE!!! Fresh goes better! Mentos freshness! Fresh goes better with Mentos, fresh and full of life! Mentos! The Freshmaker! Mark McFadden Fresh Fish means recently killed. So does Fresh Flowers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:33:18 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: Conscience and Moral Compass in Lovecraftian Horror At 7:17 PM -1000 7/20/99, Jay Dugger wrote: > > I understood what Mikey wrote to mean something different. Yes, I pointed out to Mike that this wasn't clear. MiB's right in his interpretation, by some freak coincidence. At the very least, I'd recommend the effects of a sociopathic character losing SAN to be different from that of Joe Green, a basically decent guy, realizing that he's just blown away an innocent. NO MAN'S LAND has some useful temporary and indefinite insanities for both varieties - criminal psychosis, 'shell shock,' et. al. Steven - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted the electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:25:08 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: The Media Conspiracy Olaughing@aol.com wrote: > > > Being something of a media-conspiracy afficianado, I can tell you that > > there is a Mentos fan site on the net that discusses the commercials; > > search for it and you'll find it. As I recall it, the gist is that > > despite appearances, some or all of the commercials were produced by an > > American ad agency and shot in California; however, at least some of the > > actors were European. In particular, I believe the elderly lady in one > > commercial can be seen in Lars von Trier's excellent miniseries/movie THE > > KINGDOM. > > Alphonse, I fucking love you--you know what THE KINGDOM is. For > those of you who don't know, The Kingdom will be on the Independent Film > Channel tonight (Tuesday) at 6 PM Pacific Time. I'll be taping it. > > > John Goodrich > Delta Green Friendly > Telling Tales from a Parallel Universe > I am halfway through The Kingdom right now, and plan on finishing it tonight after work. Very cool. BTW---If you enjoyed The Kingdom's creepy hospital haunting scenes you might want to check out the very, very different Playstation game Silent Hill for some similar atmospher. I have mentioned this before, but it has a very creepy background and could easily be adapted for an adventure for CoC/DG. Basic Synopsis (spoilers follow): s p o i l e r s A man whose wife died some years ago takes his daughter to a small resort town that they frequent. Along the way on the outskirts of town he sees a girl in the middle of the road, swerves to miss her, and wrecks. When he wakes up his child is missing, and it is snowing and foggy, which is wrong for that time of year. When he gets to town he finds it abandoned, except for the strange beasts which torment him. After a while, he discovers that the world simply ends at the edge of town in endless cliffs with pieces of pipe sticking out, and the environment becomes more...hostile. Gameplay is similar to Resident Evil, but with a much scarier atmosphere that builds dread without relief. I get nightmares every time I play it. Also features evil cultist types, mystical drugs, and a scheme to summon an demon that is best described as monstrously evil (I assure you, I am not exaggerating, it nearly made me sick). Oh, yeah, and the endings, well there are several, and let me just say that they are all very, very bad in one way or another. > - -- - ---------------------- *Randall Orndorff * *Lightstream Internet* *rand@lightstream.net* *(888)345-0175 x180 * - ---------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:50:37 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: DG: Liber Mentos No, I am not making this up: http://www.end.com/~niko/cthulhu.html The link to it is on this page. - -- - ---------------------- *Randall Orndorff * *Lightstream Internet* *rand@lightstream.net* *(888)345-0175 x180 * - ---------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 99 13:35:12 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: Intra-species Shan Infestation The recent threads discussing Shan and conspiracies have sparked an idea which I hope hasn't been covered in earlier postings. Are the Shan able to infest other host species? IIRC Mr Campbell indicates in his story that they have done so with a number of alien species, not just humans. If they can parasitise any species then what is to prevent a Shan from infesting a Mi Go? A ghoul? A lawyer? (OK, that last one is probably a bit far fetched even for a DG list). For DG purposes Mi Go infestation would allow the Shan to gather intel from the other worldwide conspiracies. The presumption that the Shan are only interested in one thing (getting off Earth) may be erroneous. Thoughts? Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/ The South Side - http://??? Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:06:45 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: Re: The Yellow Sign of Texas I was asked by a listmember off-list about websites for the Alamo and Texas history, and I thought that as long as I had them after sending them to him, I could send them to the list, too, for anyone who's interested. Eventually I'll post some "Mythos Texas" thing (I've had it on the back burner for ages, ever since the Strange Vistas project surfaced), but I'm more concerned with Hong Kong and Tibet at the moment (EH update soon, I promise!): Many detailed essays, and an excellent map: http://numedia.tddc.net/sa/alamo/ (the map is here: http://numedia.tddc.net/sa/alamo/bexar.html ) A good history of the battle, with lots of background and legends: http://www.thehistorynet.com/WildWest/articles/02962_text.htm Slow loading, but it had a color photo of the front of the Alamo: http://members.tripod.com/aries46/alamo.htm This looks like a very good resource: http://www.flash.net/~alamo3/adp.html This should answer most Texas history questions: http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/index.html More Texas stuff, full of typical Texas arrogance: http://www.lsjunction.com/ (it has a link to a very brief history of the Battle of the Alamo, which might be good for a player handout: http://www.lsjunction.com/events/alamo.htm ) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:56:55 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Intra-species Shan Infestation Peter Devlin schrieb: > > The recent threads discussing Shan and conspiracies have sparked an idea > which I hope hasn't been covered in earlier postings. > > Are the Shan able to infest other host species? IIRC Mr Campbell indicates in > his story that they have done so with a number of alien species, not just > humans. > > If they can parasitise any species then what is to prevent a Shan from > infesting a Mi Go? A ghoul? A lawyer? (OK, that last one is probably a bit > far fetched even for a DG list). > > For DG purposes Mi Go infestation would allow the Shan to gather intel from > the other worldwide conspiracies. The presumption that the Shan are only > interested in one thing (getting off Earth) may be erroneous. > > Thoughts? I once had a Shan infestested cat and several infested monkeys in my campaign. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:24:25 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Eyes Wide Shut Greetings. More international data... >> Main difference between American and German [ or rather their >governments' >>] >>attitude toward movies: Americans censor nudity and bad language, >Germans censor >>violence. > >UK censorship laws are a complete mess. In Italy, censorship is a circus mounted on the concept of "good taste". Movies in Italy are rated as follows Per Tutti - no restrictions Vietato ai minori di Anni 14 - no under-14s allowed [most horrors, sci-fi and war movies, but also Jesus Christ Superstar, Saturday Night Fever, The Blues Brothers, all John Woo but "Broken arrow", all Chow Yun Fat movies] Vietato ai minori di anni 18 - no under-18s [porn, arthouse erotica, Tarantino, Cronemberg, VonTrier....] It must be noted however - and I guess you'll find this both predictable and interesting - that in Italy today, censorship targets political and religious issues. Theatre is another thing - you can't censor a show anyy longer (sadly, some might say, considering the crap that's been played live across the country), but you can still mount a media campaign and have indignant members picketing the venue. Finally there's TV - where censorship has always been practiced and never been acknowledged. Gone are the days when former Crazy Horse act the Kessler twins had to wear black stockings to cover their long and shapely legs not to distract the audience, and breasts are accepted if not relished. On the other hand, strictly no political satire, thanks. A final note that will probably amuse some listmembers - as the Italian Republic censorship office sort of inherited the cloack of the Fascist Censorship Office, we got the Marx Brothers in the '70s!! I was a kid (and lukily a son to progressive parents) when first "A Night at the Opera" was passed, preceded by a learned introduction, on late night TV so that children could not see it. This place is crazy! Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 17:11:55 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Book choice Greetings. Mark responded ><< Counternote on tradecraft - modern hotels simply take note of the stolen > goods, and bill your credit card. They also keep a record of "souvenir > pickers" - so that if you paid cash, they'll be able to bill you next time. > Therefore, stealing towels is bad for business - you leave a highly > accessible trail. >> > > And that is a Eurocentric observation. Au contraire... I have it on good authority, that the "we'll get you sooner or later" school of towel-billing and ash-tray revenge is practiced in Europe, Asia and Australia, and by major hotel chains. Note also that hotels in a given chain/francise share databases - so that you can be billed in Bora-Bora for the towel you picked up in Katmandu. ObDG: this could be used to actually send messages while abroad. "I'm being shadowed" - steal a towel "Plan cancelled" - steal an ashtray "Send backup team" - steal a fluffy bathrobe Just an idea, of course ;-) Cheers! Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:27:51 EDT From: ScottSaylo@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Mentos! The Freshmaker! In a message dated 7/21/99 3:06:39 AM EST, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: I couldn't resist the obvious summoning chant! Do do do dooo, do doo, do waaaah! It doesn't matter what comes, the Gods go better with life, With Mythos fresh and full of Life! Nothing gets to you, stayin kept, stayin cool, With Mythos fresh and full of LIFE!!! Fresh goes better! Mythos freshness! Fresh goes better with Mythos, fresh and full of life! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:02:34 EDT From: USFORREC1@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Kennedy campaign musings In a message dated 7/21/99 12:35:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: << Great! Now how do we tie it all in with that Nancy Reagan thing? >> Well, if I was gonna do it (and thinking about it I just might :) ) here's how it would go: In my campaign already, the Reagan and Bush campaign was "helped" by the friendly people at MJ. After Carter's "failures" (to them anyway) and cuts in the military budget (that affected MJ in a variety of ways), they first took advantage of the Delta rescue op with some subtle sabotages. They weren't meant to create the disaster that happened just stop the plan before it really got underway (not everything is under their control but that doesn't mean they didn't benefit). the other parts of the "October Suprise" went into action and MJ ended up with an ardent Cold War president that was more in tune with their thinking and a VP that was already in the loop. When "Contact" came, then MJ had two in their pocket already and had little to fear. Nancy could be the unwitting dupe of the Fate or maybe the Cult of Transcedendence, controlled through her astrologer who is in turn controled by that group. The Fate could manipulate her to pull her husbands strings for those projects that would benefit them (the Drug War which might have allowed some competitors to be eliminated and drive up prices, Iran-Contra with a friendly Fate-influenced group of arms dealers ready to make a buck, and so on). The COT could have used similar manipulations but oriented towards socio-political agendas that benefited their group and sociopathy in general. His alziheimer's disease I would leave as natural (but a useful red herring) that just made the manipulations that much easier. Bush was handed the presidency through similar subtle manipulations but when MJ had some doubts about his second term (and a president being back in the know), they pressured him to run a lackluster campaign and bow out. Clinton came into power, already manipulated through these forces but less in the know (being more of an old-fashioned crook than a conspiracy member). he was manipulated by thgese groups more subtlely. he had shady connections, a penchant for the ladies and wanted the power. When he "behaved" these things flowed in, act up and a scandal erupts, fall back into line and it begins to disappear. Everybody in the loop is happy (and not being in the know leads to those accusations of "vast right wing conspiracies" as they attempt to label the unseen forces coming at them). The 80s and 90s were then the product of these various groups manipulating the scene for their own agendas (which would have meshed somewhat well) and that would be my story behind Ronnie, Nancy and Co. - -Dave K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:17:09 EDT From: ScottSaylo@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Book choice In a message dated 7/21/99 10:33:07 AM EST, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: << ObDG: this could be used to actually send messages while abroad. "I'm being shadowed" - steal a towel "Plan cancelled" - steal an ashtray "Send backup team" - steal a fluffy bathrobe Just an idea, of course ;-) Cheers! Davide Mana >> Very elegant, it certainly beats balancing a coffee cup on the fendera of a car parked at a certain corner, or painting fingernail polish on a telephone receiver or suc craft work. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:03:51 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Kennedy campaign musings USFORREC1@aol.com schrieb: [snip] > In my campaign already, the Reagan and Bush campaign was "helped" by > the friendly people at MJ. After Carter's "failures" (to them anyway) and > cuts in the military budget (that affected MJ in a variety of ways), they > first took advantage of the Delta rescue op with some subtle sabotages. They > weren't meant to create the disaster that happened just stop the plan before > it really got underway (not everything is under their control but that > doesn't mean they didn't benefit). the other parts of the "October Suprise" > went into action and MJ ended up with an ardent Cold War president that was > more in tune with their thinking and a VP that was already in the loop. When > "Contact" came, then MJ had two in their pocket already and had little to > fear. > Nancy could be the unwitting dupe of the Fate or maybe the Cult of > Transcedendence, controlled through her astrologer who is in turn controled > by that group. The Fate could manipulate her to pull her husbands strings > for those projects that would benefit them (the Drug War which might have > allowed some competitors to be eliminated and drive up prices, Iran-Contra > with a friendly Fate-influenced group of arms dealers ready to make a buck, > and so on). The COT could have used similar manipulations but oriented > towards socio-political agendas that benefited their group and sociopathy in > general. > His alziheimer's disease I would leave as natural (but a useful red > herring) that just made the manipulations that much easier. [ snip ] All this sounds pretty interesting to me. I think my all-time-favourite-anti-mythos-hero and DG ally Libya's Col. Muammar Ghaddafi could fit pretty well into this background. The Reagan times may be over, but the Colonel may still have some helpful information from that time. And there must have been some reason, why he or rather his palace was directly attacked by US Bombers in '86. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:13:42 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: DG: JFK jr. and the sea Good Evening. It seems that they found both the plane and JFK jr's corpse. But there's something about the story that I find strange: The Kennedy clan wants to bury their latest victim AT SEA! They want to put the young man back into the ocean. Kind of bizarre, isn't it? A probable explanation might be a Kennedy / Deep One connection. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:10:36 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: JFK jr. and the sea Cheers! Our favourite bootleggers are back in the news >It seems that they found both the plane and JFK jr's corpse. >But there's something about the story that I find strange: > >The Kennedy clan wants to bury their latest victim AT SEA! They want to put >the young man back into the ocean. > >Kind of bizarre, isn't it? And what about the fact that, when the corpse was found, all ships and choppers carrying press were asked to come no closer than _5 miles_? There's something fishy going on. Oh, yeah! Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:21:58 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Eyes Wide Shut Davide Mana schrieb: [ snip ] > Finally there's TV - where censorship has always been practiced and never > been acknowledged. > Gone are the days when former Crazy Horse act the Kessler twins had to wear > black stockings to cover their long and shapely legs not to distract the > audience, and breasts are accepted if not relished. > On the other hand, strictly no political satire, thanks. [ snip ] And did not the Italians invent the game show concept they called "Colpo Grosso" [ as far as I remember the name ]? ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:28:33 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Eyes Wide Shut Greetings. Chris is gonna kick us hard, but there's a moment when a man has to face such risks. This message _does_ have a highly moral redeeming content, because it is true, I tell you gentlemen, that the sins of the fathers do haunt their offspring. Eckhard wrote.... >And did not the Italians invent the game show concept they called "Colpo Grosso" >[ as far as I remember the name ]? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Even the Germans know about it. [bangs head on floor contemplating seppuku as only way to save face] OK, get a grip.... "Colpo Grosso" - that Heckard spelled in a suspiciously perfect way - means "Big Hit" and is possibly the hugest TV success in Italy in terms of monetary return vs producing cost (close to nil). The concept: a verbally aggressive dominatrix type hosts a "quiz show" in which viewers can phone, answer some minboggingly childish question and get as a reward the opportunity to choose which one of two scantly-clad, masked young ladies (a new pair each night) is going to shed her reduced kit in a highly unerotic "shower simulation". To somewhat enhance the erotic thrill (?) of the show, the audience is told the two masked ladies are "amateurs" (young professionals, students, housewives etc) doing the lot for kicks - a patent lie, but some people would believe everything for a wank... pardon my French. I know it sounds squalid, but believe me - it's much worse. The programme is syndicated through a network of local stations and passes after midnight - it's supposedly a big hit with nightwatchmen, servicemen on night duty and other graveyard shift workers, plus hordes of pre-teens that sneak to the TV set and watch the thing with volume on 0. Now you're asking - has this some kind of misguided DG content hidden somewhere? Yes. Italy has been the preferential target of massive immigration from Albania in the mid-'90s because of "Colpo Grosso". The Albanians were able to catch the broadcast, and this contributed to the myth of Italy as the land of milk and honey, where curvaceous housewives undress under fake showers to the rhythm of cheap piano-bar sleaze music. This way, the Albanian government convinced a huge quantity of "undesireables" to spontaneously leave the country on hazardously refurbished pieces of floatsam, and made quite a buck out of the tickets. Media and crowd manipulation at its most basic. And here I stop and go looking for my kaishaku. Take care. Davide Mana [that used to sneak up to the TV set with a pair of old Senheizer headphones to watch late night reruns of Hammer movies. Talking 'bout my generation....] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:34:03 +0200 (CEST) From: alex@bofh.torun.pl (Janusz A. Urbanowicz) Subject: Re: DG: Blades and Blair... > Truth be told - the LD50 (acute toxicity) of sodium or potassium cyanide is > approximately 6 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. This means that it > is less toxic than strychnine sulphate (2.6 mg/kg). While there are some > chronic health effects from exposure to cyanide compounds, they aren't as > severe as those due to mercury exposure. > > The handling precautions are fairly simple - prevent skin contact, maintain > good hygiene to prevent ingestion, and keep away from acids to prevent the > formation of hydrogen cyanide. If it's in solution, maintain a pH greater > than 7 and HCN formation will be minimal. Under these conditions, typical > workroom HCN concentrations are significantly below 1 ppm. Even if there is > exposure, there are several different antidotes available. > > For disposal, cyanide can be destroyed by any oxidizer. Sulphur dioxide is > commonly used for this. If there's a big open (tailings) pond nearby, and > it doesn't freeze too badly, then photodegadation is possible. There was also discussion I saw about a (very tiny) chance of sodium cyanide being dissolved and neutralized by stomach digesting fluids - when one's suffer an illness (don't know the right term) of overacidness of stomach - overproduction of these fluids. [] > > > >Now, in a following interview with a German officer from the press corps, the > >officer said something like that: > >"Well, yes, in the 30mm ammunition in the Apaches and A-10s there is some > amount > >of uranium in the core, and yes it radiates a little bit, BUT YOU NEED TO GET > >LARGE AMOUNTS OF THE AMMUNITION IN YOUR BODY TO FEEL ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS!" > > > >Oh, so true... > > > > Off course - it's depleted uranium (DU) that is almost completely an alpha > emitter. It's perfectly safe to handle provided you don't ingest it. > Depending on the age (and batch ?) of the DU, there will be some decay > products that are gamma or beta emitters. Hmmmm... I'm almost a physicist (only 30 pages of M.Sc thesis to write left), and I was under impression that DU is this, what is left, when you isolate the radioactive (yes, alpha-emiting) isotope, and thus IS NOT radioactive. 'Ordinary' uranium is just a heavy, toxic when in saltes, metal. > The same concern was raised post - Gulf War. While there is a small > possibility of civilian exposure from handling the DU slugs that will be > embedded in soil, buildings and burned-out tanks, there is a greater > potential for ingestion. The DU slugs will be affected by ground water, > slowly dissolving and being absorbed by crops and drinking water. Exactly > what the effect on the civilian population will be has yet to be seen. Uranium oxide and salts are toxic, but as I said, they shouldn't be radioactive. Its too expensive to put the 'good' uranium in bullets. Alex - -- * | Janusz A. "Alex" Urbanowicz, \ Home: --+~| | http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/~alex/ \ Work: `_|/ | "Historii nie można tworzyć. \____ RSA: 512/0xAB425659 | | Można jedynie mieć nadzieję, że się ją przetrwa." - G'Kar, Babylon 5 ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #6 ******************************