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deltagreen-digest        Monday, July 26 1999        Volume 02 : Number 012




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:17:11 +0200
From: Davide Mana <doctor.dee@iol.it>
Subject: Re: DG: The Looker gun

Greetings.

Mirrorshaded Mark McFadden wrote

> The earliest fictional reference to a time-lapse inducer I know of was in 
>The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester. Some guards were given missing time 
>through the use of a "visual purple" flash bomb, whatever that is.

The idea is that a red or purple intermittent light source with a specific
frequency (which I can't remember exactly at the moment) is much more
efficient than a white strobe light in inducing epileptical fits. 
This is accurate as far as I know, and was widely circulated and used both
in reality and fiction.

- - Michael Moorcock describes a red flashlight device used as part of the
defences of the Cornelius mansion (in The Final Programme). Moorcock
couples the light with loud sounds with specific frequency and wavelenght,
another known inducer of short epilepsy fits.
Quite a nifty thingie, IMHO.

- - in "Andromeda" (the movie, at least) a brief blank-out of one of the
characters induced by her gazing at flashing red writing on a screen is
part of the plot devices Crichton throws in.
Always made me vonder at that cursed <BLINK> tag in HTML.

- - in Real Life (C), both videogames and Japanese animation (Pokemon being
the latest offender, IIRC) have been accused of inducing epilepsy in kids.
The producers generally counter with the observation that only a small
percentage of the population is sensitive to that stimulus (as if....)

And here I stop.
Got to go and fix a few red flashes and amps at the entrance of the Ice
Cave - if it's good enough for Jerry Cornelius, it's all right with me (at
least as far as hardware is concerned ;>).

Take care.

					Davide Mana
					Torino, Italy
					doctor.dee@iol.it

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:39:37 -0500
From: Joseph Camp <alphonse@delta-green.com>
Subject: DG: Space issues

A couple of resources for COs:

Reclusive Las Vegas millionaire starts space tourism company:
<http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-07/25/111l-072599-idx.
html>

Home for NASA Watch, a private watchdog group, and many other 
public-science sites:
<http://www.reston.com>

Be sure to visit NASA Watch and check out the reports of stagnant air on 
the space station.

And finally, for humor purposes, this file within NASA Watch is worth a 
look:

<http://www.reston.com/nasa/arc/arc.viking.raid/Viking.Raids.html>

be seeing you,
Alphonse

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:00:13 PDT
From: "Stabernide -" <stabernide_@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DG: xxx webmaster

>Any idea about how this thing got here?
>Has somebody badly mistaken our gerbil talk of a few months back?
>I'm particularly pissed by the above as I received a _personal_ copy >of 
>the
>same, clearly connected to the Ice Cave - which is not an XXX site >(in 
>case
>you did not notice - apparently it happens) and might be kicked out >of its
>server should it be classified as such.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. A couple of people I know have had Much, 
much worse sent to them by running even less inocous sounding sites. In one 
instance a friend whose sole web prescence was a subscription to a MG news 
group saw himself recieving an invitation to a 'bonk-a-thon' in Germany.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 16:01:23 -0400
From: "Jeanne Edna Thelwell" <thelwell@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: DG: School of the Americas

Just for the record, I didn't say any of that.  That's all the MIB. <g>  
Very few of my arguments are testosterone-laced, and somehow, 
estrogen just doesn't seem to have the same kick.<g>  

On 24 Jul 99, at 22:47, The Man in Black wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Jeanne Edna Thelwell wrote:
> 
> I stand by my previous testosterone laced defense of murder and torture. 
> However, I don't think closing the school is possible without some sort of
> major media hoo-hah. However, getting more open access to the school, and
> I don't mean by biased individuals, but by trained human-rights observers,
> might be a step in the right direction. I do not see this strategy being
> applied, probably 'cause pinko scummies do not have the pure GUTS,
> discipline or willpower to attend an advanced miltary institution. Then
> again, neither do I :)
> 
> I would be very interested in seeing the UN put an observer through the
> school, or perhaps dig up that Marine Intel Officer who whistleblew on how
> Iraq weapons inspections were FUBAR, and see if he can still hack the
> grueling physical nature of military training.
> 
> If nothing is going on, as the SOA, CIA and numerous others claim, then
> sending a couple of reporters/observers through the school should be no
> problem. If the school is closed, then the SOA vanishes into the
> clandestine budget, and we get things like the Panama Jungle School (PANA
> JUNGLA~!) popping up all over South America as Special Forces go to Latin
> Armies instead of Latin Armies coming to us.
> 
> These SoA students might make good DG friendlies if Majestic decides to
> insert themselves into the SoA issue (to recover Grey stuff in Peru?).
> Maybe I can work this into EH somehow, Jimmie?
> 
> The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
> Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum
> Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3.
> http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]
> 



Jeanne
- -------------------
"Technique without ideals is a menace.  Ideals without technique are a mess." -- Karl Llewellyn

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:39:20 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: A new urban myth

In a message dated 7/25/99 3:35:53 AM Central Daylight Time, 
LizardRoi@aol.com writes:

<< 
 Mark McFadden
 Is anxiously awaiting the letter to Dear Abby asking her to warn people 
about 
 deposit envelopes.
  >>


Much like her prionting of a disgusted consumer about the awful toy "The Meat 
Wagon" which was a slot racing set with the ambulance to come out and pick up 
the little toy bodies from the smoldering wreck. It was hilarious and I don't 
know if she realizes to this day that the ad her writer saw was a Saturday 
Night Live Spoof circa late '70's early 80's

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 15:22:48 +0900
From: "David Farnell" <daf@iwa.att.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: DG: Kennedy campaign musings

From: The Man in Black:
> > have been oppossed if only on principle alone.  DG probably made
contacts
> > with Ho Chi Mihn through the OSS in WW2 (maybe Camp himself).
>
> This is part of the "Every historical figure is part of the Conspiracy"
> angle and that's just plain wrong. Leave Ho Chi Minh alone. Make up a
> cadre of generals who despise the mythos and that's enough.

I have the North Vietnamese as occasionally encountering the Mythos in
Vietnam and doing what they could to kill it, but generally losing. Of
course it was a peripheral concern. But Uncle Ho probably didn't know
anything about it. And Joe Camp might've tried to contact Ho, but I doubt
they would've talked.

But don't forget the Kennedy-assassination connection with Vietnam. It was
the South Vietnamese prez that Kennedy backstabbed and assassinated. His
widow vowed revenge. 1 Fortune Point to whoever digs up the names first--I'm
too damn lazy.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:04:39 EDT
From: USFORREC1@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Kennedy campaign musings

In a message dated 7/25/99 12:20:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mib@cyberspace.org writes:

<< Kennedy was viewed by many as a pinko, and maybe this led to his
 assassination (damn, two asses in one word, Kewl!). But I still have to
 assert (ass again!) that MJ is just too big and too unbelieveable in your
 little world. It would be much more fitting to have the Black Brotherhood
 mentioned only in At Your Door, Enc. Cthuliana, and originally from
 Strange Aeons by Bloch. These guys perform assassinations (heh-heh) to
 serve the Chaos that Crawls like an ass. 
 
 MJ in the 60's would still be trying to fetch that loser from Dark Skies,
 and would not want a policy battle over Vietnam with DG hardcases with too
 many stars. MJ has always been mostly business and technical, not
 military, so they probably didn't have the *reach* to do the nasty in the
 'Nam. MKULTRA was totally exposed, fer chrissake, pathetic.  <<much 
snippage>> >>

    Just a few final points to consider before moving on:
    The MJ group was initially comprised of the following members:
Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoeter: 3rd director of CIG & 1st director of CIA, 
later a member of NICAP
Dr. Vannevar Bush: organized National Defense Research Council (1941) & 
Office of Scientific Research and Development (the organizations that led to 
the development of the Atomic Bomb) and in 1949 served as a consultant to the 
US Intelligence Board
Secretary James V. Forrestal: Secretary of Defense until his "suicide" (his 
position was later filled by General Walter Bedell Smith-former Eisenhower 
chief of staff, ambassador to USSR and replacement head of CIA for 
Hillenkoeter) 
General Nathan F. Twining: Air Material Command commander (based out of 
Wright-Patterson AFB) and one of the originators of Project SIGN
General Hoyt S. Vandenberg: Air Force Chief of Staff and former director of 
CIG, believed to have headed security for MJ
Dr. Detlev Bronk: Physiologist and biophysicist, chairman of the National 
Research Council, member of the Atomic Energy Commission medical advisory 
board, and member of the Scientific Advisory Committee of the Brookhaven 
National Laboratory
Dr. Jerome Hunsacker: aircraft designer, chairman of MIT's Departments of 
Mechanical and Aeronautical Engineering, chairman of the National Advisory 
Committee for Aeronautics
Mr. Sidney W. Souers: retired rear admiral, first director of CIG, executive 
secretary to NSC (1947), special security consultant to the NSC
Mr. Gordon Gray: Assistant Secretary of the Army (1947), Secretary of the 
Army (1949), special assistant on security affairs to Truman (1950), director 
of a UFO-related psychological strategy board
Dr. Donald Menzel: Astronomer, Harvard College Observatory director, public 
debunker of UFOs
General Robert M. Montegue: Sandia Atomic Energy Commission facility commander
Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner: executive secretary of the Joint Research and 
Development Board and was involved in the creation of the Weapons Systems 
Evaluation Group, part of the 1952 CIA-panel that stated UFOs were not a 
national security threat

    With this line-up, I can see MJ having the power and influence to be more 
of a major player than not.  They had a direct line to the President and were 
entrenched throughout the military-intelligence establishment (according to 
both DG and the Conspiracy literature, the CIA played a major role in both 
providing funds and personnel, hence exerting influence in the process and a 
host of other agencies played similar roles).  With these organizations 
having their own agendas that would be passed on to MJ with their personnel 
moving into the group, it is easy for me to see projects and influence 
outside the sphere of aliens.  Add in GARNET's assassination (those two asses 
again :) ) duties, and the sub-projects of AQUARIUS, SIDEKICK, and LOOKING 
GLASS and the scenario of MJ as a major architect of the NOW begins pulling 
together for me (though I agree that the group would change over time, to me 
it is the current factions that are the result of coming out of a cold war 
mentality and this change.  Contact and the end of the cold war seems to me 
to be the major catalyst for new elements gaining influence in MJ)
    All that being said, my campaign visions are (obviously) not for 
everyone.  They have been the foundation of my DG campaign for over 2 years 
(and provided elements for CoC play for many years prior to that).  I could 
engage in point/counterpoint ad nauseum for eternity.  What it boils down to 
is that for my campaign and players, this has proven interesting and fits our 
style of play.  It isn't for everyone but I don't feel that that makes it 
better or worse.  My players and myself find the conspiracy angles and a 
major warping of history by the mythos fun.  Other groups find centering on 
new technologies fun or different views of the mythos fun.  My group doesn't. 
 Each group has its own flavor.
    For us, the campaign mixes direct scenarios with a lot of research, 
tradecraft and interaction.  No, they don't blow much stuff up :).  They deal 
with undercover ops, recon, running intelligence/informant networks, intel 
gathering, surveillance and the like.  Direct action has a limited but 
important place in our campaign.  For them, finding a few skeletons in DG's 
closet or tracing the Kennedy assassinations to a MJ/Fate co-operation 
project would be interesting, for other groups it would be quite boring.  
Uncovering the mythos connections throughout history again is interesting.  
In our campaign, most important individuals have had some brush with the 
mythos, be it directly (either corrupted by or combating against), indirectly 
(contact with a mythos entity or group, whether they realized it or not) or 
peripherally (through simple contact/association with an event that was 
mythos-inspired in some way or with one of the conspiracies, knowing or 
unknowing).  For example, the development of Ho Chi Mihn as a former 
associate of OSS/DG in Asia and an enemy of the Tcho-Tcho would work great 
(though he will probably view them as a tribe of pagan guerrillas with 
questionable practices and not part of something larger).  For us, this is 
what CoC/DG is about, for another group its not.
    So all that being said, I'm going to attempt to leave arguments about why 
my MJ is "better" than someone else's or too much on my personal 
interpretations of the mythos.  My ideas are only better in how they relate 
to what my gamers want.  Debating back and forth isn't going to change 
anyone's view of the game and is just going to add to the spamming of the 
list with items that probably most don't care about (though I make no 
absolute promises that I won't be drug back into one :) ).  And with that I 
end…

- -Dave K

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:35:34 +0100
From: "MERMOUD Patrice" <patrice.mermoud@cnasea.fr>
Subject: DG: The Looker gun

LizardRoi@aol.com wrote :

>>Guy invents machine with ability to digitalize people and recreate
>>their picture for whatever movie the bad guy want to insert them in. 
>>Add a "time-lapse" inducing ray-gun and a few pretty girls

>The concept of the "time-lapse" gun was supposedly based on existing
>equipment.
>The concept is to trigger a petite mal seizure in a localized area. 
>Not randomized, imprecise, damaged signals such as those resulting 
>from damage or electroshock; but a kind of short-lived virus delivered
>as light. The precise wavelength of visible light is strobe flashed 
>at high intensity in patterned pulses. The signal fires along the 
>optic nerves to the visual centers of the brain where the pulses 
>radiate out in ripples of fired synapses trying to interpret\absorb 
>the signal. The metaphor used was comparing the effect of soldiers 
>marching in step crossing a bridge to the bearable load of normal
>random footsteps. Resonance.
>The briefly self-replicating "ripples" put the higher brain functions
>into a warm reboot without triggering convulsions.
 
Right. The Looker gun used a flash of light (don't remember if it was
really stroboscope in the movie but the idea is there).
Think of the "danger" of video games whose violent flashes of light
are supposed to induce epilepsy (petit mal, as opposed to the 
convulsions of the grand mal) or the epileptic crisis created some
months ago in Japan by a flashes-filled anime shown on tv.
The Petit Mal consists usually in its victim having "leaves of absence"
for a few seconds, really a time-lapse experience.
(Developed softwares in a medical center dealing with epilepsy nearly 
fifteen years ago and dated a girl suffering from petit mal for a year
after that, hence I could be witness of numerous similar crisis).

							PM

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:00:40 +0200
From: Juergen Hubert <snjuhube@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: Biological Weapons (Was: Re: DG: Mentos)

> > > PS: I wish to assure our foriegn associates that US biological weapon
> > > programs are purely defensive in nature.
> > 
> > Like when those pesky Europeans won't buy American genetically
> > engineered food...   ;-)
> 
> Shut up and eat your damn bananas, you spoilt reject from the
> Archer-Daniels Midlands essay contest!

Well, at least our food isn't the result of MJ/NWI experimentation.

Well... as far as we know, anyway...

- - Juergen Hubert

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:56:49 -0400
From: Steven Kaye <box_nine@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: DG: Vietnam and the Mythos

At 3:22 PM +0900 7/25/99, David Farnell wrote:
>
>I have the North Vietnamese as occasionally encountering the Mythos in
>Vietnam and doing what they could to kill it, but generally losing. Of
>course it was a peripheral concern. But Uncle Ho probably didn't know
>anything about it. And Joe Camp might've tried to contact Ho, but I doubt
>they would've talked.

The con tinh (sp?) might be an interesting addition to that part of 
the world, particularly given speculation about plant-human Tcho-Tcho 
hybrids (yes, I am shameless). I know there's a legend about a turtle 
giving one of Vietnam's early heroes a magical sword. Beyond that, 
don't know much about Vietnamese folklore, unfortunately.

1920's and 1930's would make a fun time for players, with lots of 
sects and private armies running around like the Cao Dai (syncretic 
religion, mixing Buddhism, Catholicism, and Spiritualism) and the 
Binh Xuyen (criminal syndicate, which the French tolerated as 
maintaining order in some parts of Vietnam). Saigon could be an R&R 
spot after ops in China and neighboring countries.


>But don't forget the Kennedy-assassination connection with Vietnam. It was
>the South Vietnamese prez that Kennedy backstabbed and assassinated. His
>widow vowed revenge. 1 Fortune Point to whoever digs up the names first--I'm
>too damn lazy.

The president was Ngo Dinh Diem, don't recall his wife's full name.

Steven

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
- ----------
Steven Kaye
box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com

"Now, just let me fix this band on your head," I added, as I adjusted 
the electrode. -- William Hope Hodgson, "The Hog" 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:56:00 -0000
From: "Crossingham, Adam" <Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Biological Weapons (Was: Re: DG: Mentos)

The Man in Black writes <<< Shut up and eat your damn bananas >>>

Hey it's not just bananas you damn yankees are making us buy, it's your GM
Soya beans too - which is cunningly mixed with non-GM Soya so that the
customer can't identify it easily without labels or tests. The manufacturers
obviously have *great* faith in their product - Agri-chemi-imperialism at
it's best.

- --
Adam Crossingham
Work: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com	
Home: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:21:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris or Maliki <4nq4barbaroc@marquette.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: Kennedy campaign musings

> But don't forget the Kennedy-assassination connection with Vietnam. It was
> the South Vietnamese prez that Kennedy backstabbed and assassinated. His
> widow vowed revenge. 1 Fortune Point to whoever digs up the names first--I'm
> too damn lazy.
> 
the president was Ngo Diem Ziem <--not spelled, but sounds like this
chief advisor  was Ngo Diem Nhu 
chief advisor's wife was Madame Nhu, who was something just this short of
bizzare

chris, waffle king of milwaukee
- ---who bearly passed a class on Vietnam War History last semester

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:30:50 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: The Looker gun

In a message dated 7/25/99 4:27:07 AM EST, doctor.dee@iol.it writes:

<< 
 - in "Andromeda" (the movie, at least) a brief blank-out of one of the
 characters induced by her gazing at flashing red writing on a screen is
 part of the plot devices Crichton throws in.
 Always made me vonder at that cursed <BLINK> tag in HTML.
 
 - in Real Life (C), both videogames and Japanese animation (Pokemon being
 the latest offender, IIRC) have been accused of inducing epilepsy in kids.
 The producers generally counter with the observation that only a small
 percentage of the population is sensitive to that stimulus (as if....)
  >>


BUT - if you DO have epliepsy a flashing light in certain frequency ranges 
WILL induce seizure. That's why she had a petit mal in Andromeda Strain and 
missed the tell tale acidotic culture sample of the organizm as it went by in 
the parade of petri dishes. She had hidden her epliepsy from the medical 
record, so it wasn't set to avoid the monotonous flashing that induces the 
seizure.  -  Great Movie  -  even better book

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:14:22 -0500
From: "Shane Ivey" <sivey@zealot.com>
Subject: DG: Forrestal

Dave Kish summed up the first Majestic steering committee, including:

"Secretary James V. Forrestal: Secretary of Defense until his "suicide" (his
position was later filled by General Walter Bedell Smith-former Eisenhower
chief of staff, ambassador to USSR and replacement head of CIA for
Hillenkoeter)"

...and top dog of Operation HIGHJUMP, Admiral Byrd's 1947 (same year as
Roswell and every other damn thing in the MJ universe, natch) hush-hush
"exploration" of the the Antarctic, the results of which were either trivial
or were kept secret from the Majestic group at-large after Forrestal's
window-jumping "suicide."  (See the entry in The Ice Cave and ASG's "An Item
of Mutual Interest".)


SHANE IVEY
Zealot: Sci-fi & Fantasy Fun
http://www.zealot.com
AOL Keyword: Z

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:14:26 +0200
From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff)
Subject: Re: DG: A new urban myth

LizardRoi@aol.com schrieb:
> In a message dated 7/24/99 8:34:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> ScottSaylo@aol.com writes:
>
> << << 
>   Why not just dose up the inkpad used to hand-stamp everybody at the door?
[ snip]
>  Adulterated hand stamps at Disneyland.
>  
>  Let's have some fun and start a new Urban Myth.
>  It goes like this: I read in one of the local alternative papers out here, 
> The Beach Reporter (IIRC) that several people in the South Bay came to 
> various emergency rooms with symptoms of strychnine poisoning. It took a 
> while to find the connection between them. They all used the same ATM machine 
> to deposit their paychecks. When the ATM was checked, several more deposit 
> envelopes were found with strychnine on the adhesive. With a better choice of 
> poison the victims would all be dead.
[snip]

If you wanted to poison large numbers of the world population, wouldn't it be 
"easier" or rather more efficient to change the ingredients of Coke or Pepsi by 
adding some new secret and poisonous ingredient. You could say the same about the 
world-wide fast food suppliers like McD, or Burger King. And the result would not 
even have to be death, they could add something that would first make people 
addicted to the product and then it will just make them feel good, be happy, 
ignore global conspiracies, etc...

ECKHARD

BTW: Remember the scandal with the poisoned coke bottles and cans in Belgium!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:52:59 EDT
From: LizardRoi@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: A new urban myth

In a message dated 99-07-26 11:19:38 EDT, you write:

<< And the result would not 
 even have to be death, they could add something that would first make people 
 addicted to the product and then it will just make them feel good, be happy, 
 ignore global conspiracies, etc...
  >>

 Or feeling fresh, feeling cool.

 I wanted to bring out another way of getting stuff into people. When you are 
in the emergency room exhibiting symptoms of poisoning, they ask you what 
you've eaten or worked with, not what you may have licked in the course of 
your day.
 A good urban myth should make you uneasy about normal things. I was standing 
in line at an ATM and it occurred to me that it was one of the few places 
where something is exposed to the elements (and passersby) that everyone is 
expected to *lick*.
 I spread the meme amongst the smokers at work. They gather outside around 
10:00am and I usually join them with my humongous coffee mug. As a former 
smoker I am accepted by the tribe and am still part of the smoker's network. 
 On paydays I'll casually comment to someone off to deposit a check during 
lunch to not lick the deposit envelope. I give an abbreviated version of the 
Tale with apparent details (South Bay, maybe name a bank, read it in the 
Beach Reporter) and send them on their way.
 I've been at this for a few months now, but I haven't heard it coming back 
yet. 
 I suspect strychnine isn't "sexy" enough to take this myth into the 
mainstream. I've considered changing poison into AIDS, but it would make me 
feel slimey. How 'bout flesh-eating  bacteria?

Mark McFadden
The Fresh King of Lizards

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:30:59 +0200
From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff)
Subject: Re:  DG: A new urban myth

LizardRoi@aol.com schrieb:
> In a message dated 99-07-26 11:19:38 EDT, you write:
>
> << And the result would not 
>  even have to be death, they could add something that would first make people 
>  addicted to the product and then it will just make them feel good, be happy, 
>  ignore global conspiracies, etc...
>   >>
>
>  Or feeling fresh, feeling cool.
>
>  I wanted to bring out another way of getting stuff into people. When you are 
> in the emergency room exhibiting symptoms of poisoning, they ask you what 
> you've eaten or worked with, not what you may have licked in the course of 
> your day.
 
Well, your talking of "licking" gave me an idea I am not sure about wether I 
should offer it to the public, but since we're all grown up: 

A cult of Shub Niggurath could get stuff into people by putting the stuff on 
their cultists' body parts that thend to be, well, "orally comforted" [ probably 
by non-cultists ].


Licking my lips,
ECKHARD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:45:37 -0400
From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price)
Subject: Re: DG: A new urban myth

Mark wrote:
> On paydays I'll casually comment to someone off to deposit a check during
>lunch to not lick the deposit envelope.
> I suspect strychnine isn't "sexy" enough to take this myth into the
>mainstream. I've considered changing poison into AIDS, but it would make me
>feel slimey. How 'bout flesh-eating  bacteria?

Infectious stuff may not be transmitted well by licking - saliva has lots
of antibodies and enzymes which make short work of most bugs (not all, but
most). In fact one of the enzymes in saliva and tears (something known for
years, but conviniently ignored by "cutting edge" scientists until
recently) called lysozyme seems to have very promising anti-HIV activity.
Flesh eating bacteria (Staphylococcus aureus strains, IIR my bacteriology
C, which cause necrotizing faciitis) would very probably get rubbed out by
lysozyme pretty quickly. Saliva definitely counts as a hostile environment
for bugs, but some (non-pathogenic) are well adapted to it. Personally I'm
a little skeptical on the anti-HIV thing, but that's just me. Now cane toad
venom or most snake venoms coated onto adhesive strips would be a different
story.

Incidentally, I'm back from my two an a half week holiday now.... and I
only had 784 messages from the DGML waiting in my inbox. I felt much better
after I'd deleted them all ;] Ho, hum. Anyway, I'd better go and check the
solvents cabinet... I'm pretty sure we have 4 litres of DMSO sitting around
somewhere.

Cheers

Graeme

graemep@immag.mcg.edu

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:39:12 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: A new urban myth

In a message dated 7/26/99 1:00:39 PM EST, LizardRoi@aol.com writes:

<< I suspect strychnine isn't "sexy" enough to take this myth into the 
 mainstream. I've considered changing poison into AIDS, but it would make me 
 feel slimey. How 'bout flesh-eating  bacteria?
  >>

How about Blowfish venom: fugu  -  exotic, lethal, fairly long onset time - 
every time their lips or fingers feel numb (be sure to tell them the symptoms 
) they'll think they've been poisoned. It needs to have a certain splash dash 
and foreign spice to really fly, don't you think?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:48:53 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Ritalin and such

In a message dated 7/24/99 1:50:08 AM EST, snake.eyes@worldnet.att.net writes:

<< 
 I hear it's roughly analogous to cocaine.  There's a big underground trade 
 in Ritalin among some of the local high-schoolers.  Kids sell their daily 
 dose to a buddy, who turns around, crushes it up & snorts it out of a 
 cheerleader's belly button.  Just what I hear from the local constabulary.
 
  >>


I thought it was ingesting it from between her toes  -  the nubile feminine 
toe jam potentiates the drug.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:49:55 +0200
From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff)
Subject: DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

LizardRoi@aol.com schrieb:
 
  I've considered changing poison into AIDS, but it would make me 
> feel slimey. How 'bout flesh-eating  bacteria?
 

While talking of slime and flesh eating stuff:
A couple of weeks ago the police in my town discovered something pretty 
disgusting:
In the air conditioned storage facility [ about 10 Degrees Celsius cool, but NOT 
freezing ] of a company that is bancrupt for already three years they found 150 
tons of ROTTEN MEAT!
Experts say that the meat has been put there AT LEAST 8 Months ago, but it seems 
more realistic that it has already been there for TWO YEARS.
One of the officials I know from an internship in the Town Hall showed me a 
video they taped after the discovery. This definitely was the stuff that 
nightmares are made of: The floor covered with 8 inches of a grey meat slime, 
huge pieces of beef that disintegrate upon even the most tender touch [resulting 
in drops of meat splashing on the wet and slimy floor ], containers full of a 
brown, slimy substance that once might have been inner organs...
150 TONS OF ROTTEN MEAT!!!

Now I'd like to make a scenario out of this incident.

Is there any cult that needs large amounts of rotten meat?

Is there any mythos-creature that only feeds on ROTTEN meat?

Any idea is welcome.


ECKHARD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:01:23 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

In a message dated 7/26/99 1:52:14 PM EST, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes:

<< 
 Is there any mythos-creature that only feeds on ROTTEN meat?
  >>

Ghouls of course. But why not name just about anything with some corporeal 
existence if it pleases you better. If it has to eat, then you can probably 
deisgnate what it likes to eat pretty freely.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:18:09 -0500
From: "Shane Ivey" <sivey@zealot.com>
Subject: RE: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

One title, three words:  At Your Door.  Chapter One.  Just add
freshly-ground houseflies.  But how MANY of the... um, things... would be
raised on 150 tons of that beefy gruel?


SHANE IVEY
Zealot: Sci-fi & Fantasy Fun
http://www.zealot.com
AOL Keyword: Z

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org
[mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Eckhard Huelshoff
Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 1:50 PM
To: deltagreen@nocturne.org
Subject: DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was DG: A new urban myth ]


LizardRoi@aol.com schrieb:

  I've considered changing poison into AIDS, but it would make me
> feel slimey. How 'bout flesh-eating  bacteria?


While talking of slime and flesh eating stuff:
A couple of weeks ago the police in my town discovered something pretty
disgusting:
In the air conditioned storage facility [ about 10 Degrees Celsius cool, but
NOT
freezing ] of a company that is bancrupt for already three years they found
150
tons of ROTTEN MEAT!
Experts say that the meat has been put there AT LEAST 8 Months ago, but it
seems
more realistic that it has already been there for TWO YEARS.
One of the officials I know from an internship in the Town Hall showed me a
video they taped after the discovery. This definitely was the stuff that
nightmares are made of: The floor covered with 8 inches of a grey meat
slime,
huge pieces of beef that disintegrate upon even the most tender touch
[resulting
in drops of meat splashing on the wet and slimy floor ], containers full of
a
brown, slimy substance that once might have been inner organs...
150 TONS OF ROTTEN MEAT!!!

Now I'd like to make a scenario out of this incident.

Is there any cult that needs large amounts of rotten meat?

Is there any mythos-creature that only feeds on ROTTEN meat?

Any idea is welcome.


ECKHARD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:20:00 +0200
From: Davide Mana <doctor.dee@iol.it>
Subject: Re:  DG: A new urban myth

Greetings, gentlemen (and all the rest)

Eckhard wrote

>A cult of Shub Niggurath could get stuff into people by putting the stuff on 
>their cultists' body parts that thend to be, well, "orally comforted" [
probably 
>by non-cultists ].

Nice idea, but not new.
There's something of that sort in an old short story by - IIRC - Walter
Miller Jr. (but might have been Edgar Pangborn, I tend to mix the two).
Anyway, America under the hill of Soviet invaders (this being the 50s, the
idea was hot and dangerous), and - to make a long story short - the very
buxom heroine accepts to go to bed with the head of the invading force to
avenge all the dead and so on (this being the 50s, the idea was even more
hot and dangerous).
Next morning the guy is found dead.
Nobody's persecuted, as the ME determines he was killed by poisoned milk.

Silly, really.

					Davide Mana
whose brain is overflowing after twenty-odd years of science fiction reading

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:46:47 -0400
From: "Jon Capps" <narlymon@ioa.com>
Subject: Re: DG: The Looker gun

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Greg Muir <gregmuir@flinet.com>
To: Delta Green List <deltagreen@nocturne.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 1999 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: DG: The Looker gun


> > 
> > > Mark McFadden
> > > Wears mirrorshades
> > 
> > That's nice. Looks Kewl. Now all you need is a suit, tie and hat. You
> > know the color.
> 
> White, more stylish that way. :)
> 
Heathen! ;)

Jon Capps

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:06:41 +0200
From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff)
Subject: Re:  DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

ScottSaylo@aol.com schrieb:
> In a message dated 7/26/99 1:52:14 PM EST, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes:
>
> << 
>  Is there any mythos-creature that only feeds on ROTTEN meat?
>   >>
>
> Ghouls of course.  

Yes, sure. I though as well about our corpse eating friends.
BUT: As odd as it may seem: The meat that was found seemed different in its 
substance than the "normal" rotten meat on corpses. You see, I've been at several 
autopsies and what I've seen there seemed rotten in a different kind of way. 
Perhaps the reason for the difference is that the meat in the storage facility 
was rotting in a more or less "sterile" environment: No worms, no insects, no 
larger animals, just the usual micro organisms. Somehow the meat seemed kind of 
like a liquid, like a gel, really hard to find words for it. It seemed kind of 
melt away, like a huge block of strawberry icecream hanging from a hook, slowly 
dripping away and when you touch it, a huge, soft, creamy piece just splashes on 
the floor...

Perhaps there's some expert for biology or something that can make a statement 
about the question wether there is a connection between the environment of 
rotting meat and the way it is rotting?

rotten:
ECKHARD, who will never be able to eat strawberry ice cream again...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:18:55 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

In a message dated 7/26/99 3:09:26 PM EST, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes:

<< Perhaps the reason for the difference is that the meat in the storage 
facility 
 was rotting in a more or less "sterile" environment: No worms, no insects, 
no 
 larger animals, just the usual micro organisms. Somehow the meat seemed kind 
of 
 like a liquid, like a gel, really hard to find words for it. It seemed kind 
of 
 melt away, like a huge block of strawberry icecream hanging from a hook, 
slowly 
 dripping away and when you touch it, a huge, soft, creamy piece just 
splashes on 
 the floor...
  >>

Was there a digestive enzyme present? Sounds like something was happening 
chemically other than simple putrefaction

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:45:01 +0200
From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff)
Subject: Re:  DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

ScottSaylo@aol.com schrieb:
> In a message dated 7/26/99 3:09:26 PM EST, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes:
>
> << Perhaps the reason for the difference is that the meat in the storage 
> facility 
>  was rotting in a more or less "sterile" environment: No worms, no insects, 
> no 
>  larger animals, just the usual micro organisms. Somehow the meat seemed kind 
> of 
>  like a liquid, like a gel, really hard to find words for it. It seemed kind 
> of 
>  melt away, like a huge block of strawberry icecream hanging from a hook, 
> slowly 
>  dripping away and when you touch it, a huge, soft, creamy piece just 
> splashes on 
>  the floor...
>   >>
>
> Was there a digestive enzyme present? Sounds like something was happening 
> chemically other than simple putrefaction

I don't know.
The facts I know are the following:

* 150 tons of different meats [ beef and pork, different parts of their bodies 
and different sizes ]

* A meat storage facility with a temperature of about 7 - 10 degrees Celsius [ I 
don't know how much that would be in Fahrenheit ].

* The meat lay there for 8 - 30 months


ECKHARD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:01:40 EDT
From: ScottSaylo@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Meat, Slime and Bacteria [was  DG: A new urban myth ]

In a message dated 7/26/99 3:49:23 PM EST, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes:

<< 
 * 150 tons of different meats [ beef and pork, different parts of their 
bodies 
 and different sizes ]
 
 * A meat storage facility with a temperature of about 7 - 10 degrees Celsius 
[ I 
 don't know how much that would be in Fahrenheit ].
 
 * The meat lay there for 8 - 30 months
  >>


It was there long enough to rot if it got to 30 months, I would imagine 8 
months is pushing the envelope for non-freezing storage.  As to why the 
rotting was atypical  -  I imagine there is a biological agent affecting the 
tissue, perhaps amicroorganism which likes the temperature envelope.

------------------------------

End of deltagreen-digest V2 #12
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