From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #31 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, August 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 031 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:38:40 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy Phil A Posehn schrieb: > Wow! It sounds as though ANY religion outside of the mainstream has it > rough in Germany. Then again Europe has several centuries more tradition > to give the whole thing inertia. [snip] Well, it's not as if other religions can't exist, BUT they will have it difficult to reach the importance and the influence of the two dominant churches. There are other religions which play a role, like Jehova's witnesses and what is left of the Jewish community, but it is the influence of the two dominant churches and the fact that these churches participate in dealing with things that the government should deal with [ like hospitals, the care for the elderly and handicapped, and so on ] that will make it nearly impossible for any "minor" religion to play a major role. And this is something that is very heavily critizised [sp?] by the puritans in the field of constitutional law and I share their opinion. And there's something that I consider as something very dangerous: The government founded agencies to protect the public from sects that might be dangerous. And then the government thought that it might be a good idea to have the two major churches fulfill the government's role by leading these agencies. Think about it: The two dominant churches [ both Christian ] have been ordered by the government to take a closer look at other religions and warn about them, if they think of them as dangerous. And to fulfill their duty they use public funds. I mean, this is about the same as if Daimler-Chrysler would be ordered by the German government to take a closer look at other producers of vehicles and warn the public about them if they should consider these producers dangerous. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:04:37 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy Greetings again. Phil asked >I'd be interested in comparative posts on the rights of fringe religions >in other countries compared to the US. In particular, How do people like >the Theosophists and the Wiccans fare there? How about Santaria? These >strike me as good indicators of how a Mythos sect that wasn't into ritual >sacrifice would be treated. I hope I covered partially the above in my last post (a classic case of list telepathy). Let's see.... Theosophists - the Theosophical society arrived in Italy just after WW1, gaining a modicum of popularity. Internal strife and the Fascist Regime policy towards clubs and organizations (not to mention the Concordate with the Chuch) pretty gutted the thing. The Theosophists lacked the organization and the tradition the Masons had in Italy. Today, theosophy is part of the cocktail of "mysticalia" that are liberally poured in things as diverse and unconnected as Satanism and New Age. The Society is back but I think their budget would not cover a night out with girls for all the members. Wicca - nothing as such. The whole Wicca thing is (apparently) too anglo-saxon to catch here in Italy. While covens do exist, they partake more of a classical (=greco-roman) tradition, and again pour in a liberal dose of assorted odds and ends. There's no unity or coordination, and members of different organizations do not generally recognize each other as legit. The svene is very under-developed. Santaria - none as such, but some practices in rural areas and Southern Italy, centered on the worship of saints, come pretty close to the basics of Santaria. The recent canonization of Padre Pio has been considered by many (including your truly) to be a step taken by St. Jer.... ehm by the Vatican to reposses a character that was becoming the object of a pretty unhealty and clearly non-Christian cult. [an endless case could be opened about the Marian veneration practices, sponsored by the current Pontifex and often closer to pagan Mother Goddes worship than to Catholicism, but let's not open that can of worms] A consideration off the top of my head can probably sum up all of the above: the influence of the Roman Church in Italy has been so strong and pervasive these last few centuries, that any form of alternate religiosity never reached beyond the elementary/basic stage, and has a general clandestine/sinister aura in the public's eye. Currently, the following are generally accepted or taken for granted in Italy . major religions/philosophies . yoga or other phisical/philosophical practices . commercial magic (palmistry, tarots, the works) . commune-style or club-like cults (Damanhur being the best example) . Masons - see old threads in the Cave, Masonry is an Italian exclusive club, with political ramifications and more than its share of boors and parvenů. Satanism, Rosicrucianism, occultism, non-commercial magic or other weird practices are generally eyed with suspect and attract official investigation. So, Mythos cult in Italy? The alternatives are.... . totally "black cult" (I submit this to the Slang Authority): absolutely clandestine and maybe covered by Friends in High Places. Recent DIGOS inquiries show that at least _two_ churces of Satan operate this way in Italy (one based here in Tutin, the other in Rome), should they be discovered, they'd probably be arrested for various illegal practices. . "legit" cult: "Tcho-tcho Phrana Ashram - Yoga, Shatsu massages, Reiki, Relaxation Techniques, Macrobiotic cafeteria" - these guys should be careful with taxes and sanitary regulations, but would otherwise be ignored by institutions. . Dunwich-style cult: a bunch of wild-eyed weirdos, unknown to the majority, in isolated area This, as a general overview. More questions? Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:23:25 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy Davide Mana schrieb: [snip] > Here we begin to differ. > According to the old Concordate, _all_ secondary and high schools (public > and state) are to provide one weekly hour of "religios education". > As it can be imagined, the topic heated up through the years, as this could > be interpreted (and was originally intended as) a form of indoctrination. > > Currently, this is the state of the things > . one hour is provided as "cultural discussion of religious topics" - it > can be argued (and only a fool would deny it) that it's pretty hard to > understand things like Reinassence art or Dante's "Commedia" - madatory > subjects for Italian students - without at least a basic knowledge of the > Catholic tenements. For the same reason, a working knowledge of classical > philosophy is needed to understand classical art and lit., and nobody > complains (but the students) I guess there's a major difference in how "religious education" is understood. In Germany these classes normally only have the teachings of their religion/denomination as a topic. If they would teach the general aspects of different religions which would -and here I agree with you, Davide [ as so often ;-)]- make medieval art understandable, I would have no problem with it. BUT: Beginning from the first grade [ 6 years old!!! ] the churches are allowed to do their indoctrination... > . despite the above mentioned "cultural bias" of the couses, parents can > still ask for their sons to be excluded from these classes (silly, IMHO). > The kids that do not follow the religion hour, are generally given an > alternate subject (computer use, a second foreign language etc). It's the same over here in Germany. Parents can take their kids out of the religious education classes, though it is theoretically more easy than in reality. AND: When You reach the age of 14 you are legally considered able to chose your own religion/belief/etc. and therefore you can [ theoretically ] chose on your own to leave religious education. But from a practical point of view this is MUCH, MUCH more complicated, because at the age of 14 your school may not allow you to leave school for one class [ difficult legal stuff ]. Therefore the practical result is the following: You keep on sitting in your former RE-class practically doing nothing and not getting any grades, but you still have to listen to the indoctrination you wanted to get rid off. [ This is something that is also very disturbing from a legal point of view ] > [snip] > [personal memories - the religion hour when I was in high school was lots > of fun; the only two regulars were (ironically) the only two openly > agnostic students in the class. All the other guys availed themselves of > the exclusion bit and used the hour to study/do homeworks/get drunk and > subsequently kicked out of school...] It's been the same for me: Though I've been an agnostic from my early years on, I kept on joining my RE-classes and getting my A+. > > It must also be noted that the introduction of more general religios topics > in the one hour/week course has been proposed and generally rejected; the > reasons offered were > . teachers lacking the knowledge to tackle Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, > Buddhist or whatever culture > . hordes of bigots writing fiery letters to almost everybody (from the > Head of State down to the sunday paper) In the Eastern part of Germany, the former GDR, where being an atheist was supported by the government during the Communist period, they tried to invent a new form of RE, where the kids should be taught morals and values on a non-religious level. Religious groups in Germany [ including the Christian Democratic Union that ruled Germany until last September ] are getting absolutely hysterical about this idea [ which is good in my opinion ]. Eckhard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:04:19 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy In a message dated 99-08-11 15:22:28 EDT, you write: << For example: The Catholic and the Protestant churches are institutions/organizations that legally belong to the field of public law and therefore are somehow public/governmental institutions [ It's very complicated, I tried to simplify this thing ]. >> Gasp!! You mean you guys don't have the fundamental-and-never-to-be-compromised principle of the absolute separation of church and state? But, but, but, that could lead to all kinds of jiggery-pokery in the tax troughs. Not to mention bizarre concepts like some sort of fictional "Judeo-Christian tradition" in jurisprudence. And taxpayers paying for other religions that they don't believe in? You Europeans are just weird. Mark McFadden OW! I think I just sprained my tongue when I jammed it into my cheek so hard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:09:46 EDT From: ScottSaylo@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy In a message dated 8/11/99 3:37:28 PM EST, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: << >Another example: There's religious education taking place in public schools with >different classes for the Catholics and protestants. And these classes are paid >by the public, therefore by everyone in Germany, even Atheists, Hindus and >members of the Esoteric Order of Dagon. Here we begin to differ. According to the old Concordate, _all_ secondary and high schools (public and state) are to provide one weekly hour of "religios education". As it can be imagined, the topic heated up through the years, as this could be interpreted (and was originally intended as) a form of indoctrination. >> Germany has a long history of finding negotiated settlements for religious divisions: the Thirty Years War provided them with a look at the horror of it. That said there is a proviso involved - their solution did not foster the development of any other religions besides protestant christianity and Roman catholic christianity. Whole provinces became either "Lutheran" or "Roman" and little tolerance was allowed within that political unit. People picked up and moved to go to areas where their personal choice was tolerated. THis either / or proposition does not provide any facility for neither-thank-you/ this instead choice. Italy does not have much facility for any religious dichotomy. Italy tore its political indepence and unity from the grasp of the Church and the Church used its popularity and familiarity to carve a new niche for itself along with possession of the Vatican as a "sovereign nation". Neither of these social "Roots" is very tolerant of upstart religions. In the "Colonies" we Yanks, have had to become more flexible in dealing with those whose spiritual beliefs do not match our own. I think that is a benefit to a "melting pot" society. Germany and Italy (and the rest of Europe for that matter) have to find ways to tolerate other belief systems the world is demanding it. Just look at the proportion of people in non-Arab nations are Moslem. Here in the U.S. there are more Moslems now than Jews, a rather startling demographic. That growth in the demographic pie slice is just as prevalent in Europe, toss in the growing number of Hindu's, Evangelical christians, Scientologists and Frisbee worshippers and the Variety Soup is getting pretty spicey. I think this is one arena where Americans have a better handle on the issue than Europeans ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:10:39 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: Re: Dark Theaters Binding From: Christopher D. Nichols: > Anyhow, Mr. Glancy wants to switch printers to the company who's > representative at GenCon was "stacked like a goddess." So, whine about the > bindings and give him an excuse. So now we know how Agent Andrea got hired. I hope at least they'll include a photo of this goddess (and don't forget the special connotations of that word among our little coterie) in the next issue of TUO. Which finally gives me the opportunity to ask--will there BE a next issue of TUO? And as long as I'm here, I want to announce I'll be heading off on vacation in a couple of days. (Going to visit family in Hawaii and Texas.) Since I'll be gone to the end of the month, I'm going to unsubscribe from the List so I don't choke my server to death--I'd never be able to read all those messages anyway. But I will leave my subscription to the Digest intact, and skim when I get back. Anyway, if anyone needs (for some bizarre reason) to contact me in an emergency (sudden calls to do an op, for example--I'm an International Man of Mystery, after all), I'll check my web-based account at superdave@disinfo.com a couple of times during the trip. David Farnell -- Fukuoka, Japan "Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono." PS: It's very, very good to see some quality fiction coming back to the List. "Chasing the Bride" was terrific. "Forrest Lawn" is intriguing, but not yet developed to the point where I can say anything one way or t'other. But I trust Mark. Looking forward to the rest of it (if I miss it due to vacation, I'll just ask you to send me a copy direct, Mark). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:03:50 -0500 (CDT) From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy Dave K said.. "By the time that all this came to pass in the public mind, I figure MJ would have been exposed by its Grey patrons to the public. With the Endtimes approaching, the Greys would show up in their ships with a message to the world about how they have tried to aid mankind but things are beyond their control. They would have a shopping list of people they wanted to save from destruction and after that whoever they can ferry off in the time remaining. These would disappear to Yuggoth, Mars or wherever the Greys could tuck them away. To get maximium effect at this time, they would play up the panic and disclose how MJ kept everybody in the datk so the Greys couldn't "beneviolently" do more. MJ gets the lynch mob and the Greys get thousands of refugees to pick and choose from. Remnants of MJ would probably go underground and MJ and DG could do the old switch-a-roo in the Government structure." This sounds so unlike what I think of as the unfathonable and truly alien actions a mythos race might take. I'm sure they'd have a less direct and political method of herding the human cattle. I can't seee them, for example, telling journalists about their relationship with M-12, or broadcasting their scandal on TV. Maybe they'd just land mother ships and let desparate humans flock aboard, hoping that the greys are benevolent saviors? Maybe they'd use cooperative cultists to start messianic grey cults? "Also by the time this part of the Endtimes is reached, jurisdiction would not be much of a problem. The time I'm talking about is beyond busting up Liao drug rings. I'm talking about Deep Ones invading New York and Ryleh rising. This would be open warfare." This reminds me of the start of Terminator, when the few surviving humans were living in tunnels in a world where our civilization had already been destroyed. If things were this far gone, I think DG would be long gone. Knowledge that we were fighting monsterous aliens of various sorts would be so common practically everyone in a leadership position in human society would know more about the mythos than most current DG agents. Open warfare with a variety of mythos races and beings would imply a huge degree of chaos and fragmentation of society. DG would no longer exist in any recognizable form. "Everybody would be stretched to the limit to hold back these forces and would welcome any assistance. Some petty rivalries might still exist at a local level but every warm body in the trenches would be generally welcomed. There wouldn't be enough time from the onset to form different branches of anti-supernatural forces. That's where DG would fit in nicely. They come out of the shadows with A Cell's files and their knowledge and step in, assigned to units at the front and policy-makers in the rear. Probably they would set up some sort of training program to replace losses but as things advance this would fall into a week or two familiarity training and off to the front. Eventually it will be the elderly and children attending. Look at the fall of Nazi Germany to see the desperation that would be undertaken to hold out one more day." Dave G Good analogies. I wonder if their would be a recognizable fron though. Marco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 00:31:13 PDT From: "Stabernide -" Subject: DG: Chasing the Bride/Forrest Lawn Let me just say how that I enjoyed 'Chasing the Bride' very much. Let me add that I'm really looking forward to the rest of 'Forrest Lawn'. Even though work is slowly sliding into Hell at the moment, the fact that I can read quality like this on company time somehow makes everything seem worthwhile. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:28:11 +0200 From: "MERMOUD Patrice" Subject: DG: Re: deltagreen-digest V2 #30 Phil Posehn wrote : >>Good point. But just consider the treatment of the church of scientology >>by the German legal system and -last not least- our politicians and agencies. >>This may be an example of how mythos-cults might be treated: >Wow! It sounds as though ANY religion outside of the mainstream has it >rough in Germany. Then again Europe has several centuries more tradition >to give the whole thing inertia. >I'd be interested in comparative posts on the rights of fringe religions >in other countries compared to the US. In particular, How do people like >the Theosophists and the Wiccans fare there? How about Santaria? These >strike me as good indicators of how a Mythos sect that wasn't into ritual >sacrifice would be treated. Basically, in France, there are a few religions recognised by the government and other groups which are not considered religions at all ("groups" at best for tem, "sects" as worst for them). Catholics, protestants (lutherians or calvinists), islam are recognised. I'm not sure (would have to check) about bouddhism. OTOH Scientology is definitely considered a sect, much to their dismay considered the taxes they have to pay (Herbert Price wouldn't have appreciated France IRS :-) BUT it seems their connections in some circles help them escape some of these (illegally) as they owe millions of french francs to the IRS while the courts haven't yet given orders to any seizure like it would have been done for a private citizen. Some fringe catholics in the integrist league, who have parted from Roman Church, have an ambiguous status. Jehovah's Witness may be considered a sect too (at least I think to remember they mentioned as that in the report by the National Assembly (our House of Reps) something like two years ago. I'm not sure what kind of movement theosophists or santaria are. As for Wiccans, they would not be considered a religion at all. Inoffensive loonies at best, sadists animal-torturers possible or demented criminals at worse (depends on their sacrifices :-) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Aug 1999 10:59:04 BST From: "Jacob Busby Bsc." Subject: DG: DG, cults and religious freedom From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 >> their associations. Many of the members weren't even 0 SAN madmen. >> Similar groups exist and what can DG really do (besides illegally kill >> them) against them and what protections do they deserve? A precedent has already been set. DG did kill them. See the notes about Waco in the DG sourcebook. > I'd be interested in comparative posts on the rights of fringe > religions in other countries compared to the US. In particular, How do > people like the Theosophists and the Wiccans fare there? How about > Santaria? These strike me as good indicators of how a Mythos sect that > wasn't into ritual sacrifice would be treated. [The following are my personal opinions. Take with a pinch of salt.] The British attitude towards religion tends to be fairly blase. As long as group X isn't doing killing kittens or somesuch they're left to get on with it. Special Branch does keep an eye on things in case of dangerous fundamentalists killing in the name of the Lord and/or endangering the state. Most religious communities shun such extremists and are peaceful, law-abiding citizens who don't want their names sullied by a bunch of a lunatic fringe of fundamentalists. The unofficial British description of a fundamentalist would be someone who was all mental and no fun. Occasionally religious freedoms hit the headlines. Recently several British men were arrested in Yemen in connection with plans to blow up Western buildings (including the British Embassy) in Yemen. They then had to apply pressure on the Foreign Office to contact its diplomats in the British Embassy in Yemen to sort things out - meanwhile suffering at the sharp end of the law they were trying to propagate. God evidently has a sense of irony. The men were found guilty, finding explosives and firearms in their packs probably didn't much help their case much, although they had reportedly been tortured by the Yemenese authorities, so the reliability of any of this evidence is questionable. Another annual occasion upon which religious freedom hits the news is at Stonehenge. The Druids wish to celebrate the solstice at Stonehenge but usually have difficulty as the site is also desirable in the eyes of ravers and hippies, whom the National Trust doesn't want clambering all over ancient dolmens. Chuck in the fact that the police seem to have aggravated the situation over the years by beating the daylights out of the relatively innocent hippies (Cf. Battle of the Beanfield) and you've got a nightmare that seems to repeat itself every year. As for mainstream religion. Well, Britain is nominally Christian, although most people only attend church for Christmas, Easter and the usual complement of hatchings, matchings and dispatchings. Attendance at the C of E is falling, although the Evangelical Alliance is faring a little better. Cult-wise the capital of "Weird stuff" is East Grinstead. Nobody really knows why; maybe the Beatles are up to something there. _________ I think that I shall never see /__ __/ /__ a billboard lovely as a tree. __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ Ogden Nash, Song of the open road ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:02:52 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy LizardRoi@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 99-08-11 15:22:28 EDT, you write: > > << For example: The Catholic and the Protestant churches are > institutions/organizations that legally belong to the field of public law > and therefore are somehow public/governmental institutions [ It's very > complicated, I tried to simplify this thing ]. >> > > Gasp!! You mean you guys don't have the > fundamental-and-never-to-be-compromised principle of the absolute separation > of church and state? Well, officially whe do have that separation. But practically matters look different. But, but, but, that could lead to all kinds of > jiggery-pokery in the tax troughs. Not to mention bizarre concepts like some > sort of fictional "Judeo-Christian tradition" in jurisprudence. [ snip ] Well, to be honest there are certain elements in court that have their roots in this tradition, like the oath that CAN be made by mentioning God and the fact that in some courtrooms crosses can be found. But these are only symbols and 99,99% of the decisions are not influenced by "Judeo-Christian tradition". At least outside of Bavaria... Which brings me to another point: A couple of years ago the Bundeverfassungsgericht [ The federal supreme court for constitutional matters ] ruled that the Bavarian law that in every classroom has to be a crucifix is against the federal constitution, because this does interfere with the freedom of faith of non-Catholics. The result was a mass hysteria in Bavaria. Bavaria's leading politicians from the Christian-Social-Union organized mass protests on the streets of Munich protesting against this "terrible decision". I mean, they were actually protesting against one of our most important national institution, the one that protects our country's citizens from actions of the jurisdiction, the legislative and the executive branch of our government that interfere with our basic freedoms. If somebody from a party that is not part of the government would have done something comparable in Bavaria, he would have absolutely no chance to ever work again for a public agency, not even as a postman. But Bavaria had to follow the court's decision. Anyhow, they did it with a twist. The new law says that a crucifix should be found in classroom. If somebody's feelings are hurt by that, he can contact the office that is responsible for the school and protest against the crucifix. But he has to show that his reasons are serious and that his religious feelings are really hurt. The office [ which is in fact part of Bavaria's administration ] then decides whether the protester's values or the feelings of the majority are more important [ I know it sounds ridiculous, but that's the way it is ]. The decision can then be attacked by going to the courts. The really evil thing about this law is the fact that the person who sees his rights hurt has to risk going to court, which is last not least a very expensive thing if you should loose. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:04:44 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Churches and States (was: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy) Looks like another wildfire topic. Right then: here in Japan there is very little state control over religions or religious organizations, but the wall dividing Temple and State is very strong, in some ways stronger, some ways weaker than in the USA. Both of these are a result of the War and Occupation. Japan was in some ways a theocracy in the years leading up to the War, and many people (Japanese and American) did and do blame the Emperor-as-God system for much of what happened. During the Occupation, the Constitution and other laws drawn up by the Americans very firmly drew a dividing line between religion and government. There is no religious instruction in school (unless you want to get extremely picky and consider the one-word "prayer" before beginning to eat as religious). There is a moral education class. Every student or former student I've spoken to about it disliked it, citing extreme boredom. I've also never known a school teacher who enjoyed teaching it (they take turns--there's apparently no such thing as a specialist in moral education, so one week it'll be the math teacher, the next the English teacher, etc.). There are religious private schools, however, that have classes on religion. I think most of these schools are Christian, and most of their students are non-Christian. Although Buddhism and Shinto are the most popular religions by far (with the majority of the population belonging to sects of both), neither seem particularly hostile to other religions. Christianity in its various forms is a very small minority religion, accounting for about 1% of the population, but it's particularly popular among intellectuals, so that combined with its members activism allows it to have more influence than its numbers indicate. Islam is only really of any influence among a few recent immigrants, there are very few Jews (although they do have pretty good community ties--I knew the woman who was handling the newsletter a couple years back), and other Western religions are quite tiny. But there are a LOT of rather localized "new religions," which are usually syncretic. While most people are definitely religious, they take a very different attitude to what Westerners or even other Eastern nations do. "Going to church" is an alien concept. People go to the temple now and then, usually on special occasions like New Year, to offer up a prayer. It's all very individual. Priests don't deliver sermons or walk around the community scolding people for not going to religious services. I was teaching the song "California Dreaming" to some adult students, and the line "You know the preacher like the cold / He knows I'm gonna stay" made absolutely no sense to them--took me ages to get them to understand why the preacher would care whether anybody stays in the church or not. And one of them was a Shinto priest. Of course, it's different for members of minority religions. One big bug in the separation situation is that the Emperor, the disempowered symbolic head of state, is also an unofficial god and head of some sects of Shinto. All this is banned by the Constitution, but how are you going to stop people from worshipping him? Post-War, Emperor Hirohito shied away from all the ceremony and tried to be more of a statesman/ambassador, and the present Emperor has continued this policy. But DG-wise, it would be interesting to consider that he may actually BE some sort of god, or possessed by one, or trying to become one. There are many who think this whole "meek little Emperor" routine is an act, just waiting for everyone to forget about the War before reassuming the "robes of office" again. I would say that, because of what happened in the War, most people are quite leery of religion having too much power. Religions are generally left alone by the State, except in cases of swindling old folks out of their money and the like. But then there's AUM... Actually, AUM is the exception that really proves the rule. I have here an article from The Japan Times, July 29, in which the Public Security Investigation Agency (plug--see Jason Hersey's and my writeup on them in COUNTDOWN) is mentioned in the news for the first time I've ever known of. There's a 1952 Antisubversive Activities Law that grants them special powers to suspend the need for a warrant when investigating groups that have proved themselves to be a danger to the country. This includes religious groups. But the law must be activated on a case-by-case basis, and get this: it has NEVER been activated. Even now, the Ministry of Justice won't activate it against AUM, even though they are showing signs of activity again. So even the most dangerous cults just get monitored, really, and not terribly well at that. Then again, what if Japan just has a REALLY good version of Delta Green? (Delta Green=Sankaku Midori, or SM. Mmm, nice acronym.) So good that we never even hear of the most dangerous, Mythos-oriented groups because they take them out so efficiently? (They missed AUM because AUM didn't seem dangerous enough, so SM left them up to the cops--bad move.) Dave PS: Just got back from seeing Eyes Wide Shut--I wanted to see the unmutilated-by-misguided-puritanism version before going to America. I just have to say that those of us who've read Robert W. Chambers certainly get a different version of the movie in our heads from what the general public gets. Man, if Kubrick had only given the "high priest" yellow robes instead of red, it would've been perfect. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:11:37 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: DG, cults and religious freedom >Cult-wise the capital of "Weird stuff" is East Grinstead. Nobody really >knows why; maybe the Beatles are up to something there. That would be the Scientology world HQ. I've driven past it a couple of times - the few buildings you can see from the road are reasonably modern and nice looking, but the razor wire topped fence is a bit worrying. They apparently take trespassing very seriously and keep to themselves in the community. Personally I'm all in favour of having religious groups build big camps. It gives them something to do and, after all, it keeps all your loonies in one basket so to speak. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:27:38 -0500 From: "Benada, Rob" Subject: DG: Irrelevant Info For more info on Naked Mole Rats breasts see this article: http://unisci.com/stories/19993/0812996.htm And at the bottom of the article are a number of links to more Mole Rat sites including the ever popular "Rat Cam". Snorkey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:42:11 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: Churches and States (was: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy) Greetings. Just one of those small useless posts... SuperDave wrote >There is no religious instruction in school (unless you want to get >extremely picky and consider the one-word "prayer" before beginning to eat >as religious). There is a moral education class. Every student or former >student I've spoken to about it disliked it, citing extreme boredom. I've >also never known a school teacher who enjoyed teaching it (they take >turns--there's apparently no such thing as a specialist in moral education, >so one week it'll be the math teacher, the next the English teacher, etc.). Aha! This "moral education" biz. sounds a lot like the Italian "Educazione Civica" (Civil Education) - another bottom shelf subject that has one hour weekly devoted to it, no specialized teachers (It. Lit., Hist. or Phil. handle it) and is almost synonimous of boredom. Generally, the teacher uses the weekly hour to catch up with his program, and I for one never took a single Civil Education class in my life. So, kids reject it, teachers reject it, parents could not care less. BUT.... A friend of mine was saddled with the Civ.Ed. classes when she was working as a temp. teacher in a secondary school. After a coupple of lessons that sank hopelessly, she took along a copy of "Simulacres" (I think it's called that way) a French entry-level RPG - very very basic, good for jazzing up something fast. During a five mont period she covered all the basic topics of the course - Laws (how they are made and how they work), Civil Responsibility, Human rights, the works, thanks to a fantasy setting campaign. The kids had the time of their life, and learned the lot (plus the idea that RPGs are cool and reading a book does not mean you're a loser). When the direction discovered her methods, her contract was not renovated. As I told her recently, she should have unleashed Unknown Armies or Over the Edge on the tots. Considering the results, why not have fun while it lasted? End of useless post. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:50:47 +0100 From: "Paul Radford" Subject: DG: Re: deltagreen-digest V2 #28 Hi, I got in touch with Steve Ellis (thanks Phil) and he was wondering if any list members are attending Gencon UK this year and wish to participate in a game of DG? If so, please respond to me off list. Cheers, Paul ___________________________________________________ "Oh my god! They've summoned Cthulhu! You bastards! Web Pages: http://www.innotts.co.uk/~paulradford/ - -----Original Message----- From: deltagreen-digest To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Date: 10 August 1999 03:14 Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #28 > >deltagreen-digest Monday, August 9 1999 Volume 02 : Number 028 > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:48:04 -0700 (PDT) >From: Chris Pencis >Subject: DG: American News Sources -> NPR > >Does no one out here listen to NPR? Morning Edition and All things >Considered are 2 hours of serious news (and my drive companions to and >from work) with lots of in-depth European and world coverage - for >example: When's the last time you heard about East Timor on national TV >news? They had discussions of the suppression of democracy there by >Indonesion nationalist forces and the threats being made against >international election monitors.... anyone done any background on Timor? > >DG relevance: Bob Edwards has got to be a dg friendly or how about Daniel >Shorr - once a CBS whitehouse correspondant in the highlight of the >watergate scandal - then a correspondant on NPR. Not that that's a career >squashing, but perhaps a thump.... I wonder what he discovered which was >shadowed by the national attention to Watergate? > >As a semi newbie who'd like to see a faq, what's OBDG mean - I guess if I >was in the know, I'd have used that as opposed to DG relevance... > >ps http://www.npr.org for shows available via realaudio - I'm considering >looking for archives of war coverage in the site for 'headlines' and >reports from the field for use in a campaign. > >Chris Pencis >Austin Texas <- home of Lance Armstrong >(big parade for him today - no, we're not proud) >_____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:40:42 -0500 >From: "Shane Ivey" >Subject: RE: DG: The BOYS > >I heard some rumblings a while back that the Pagans and maybe Christian >Conkle were planning a full DGEO-style treatment of the BOYS. Whenever they >get back from GenCon maybe they can fill us in. > >My own take on the subject is still classified, pending completion of that >"Scorched Earth" story that I started a while back (Sam Dee, part >three--remember that?). I'll fess up to it if I wind up borrowing from this >thread. > > >SHANE IVEY >This week at www.zealot.com: >The Latest Reviews, Twenty Years in Comics, and more on The Lord of the >Rings! >Zealot: Sci-Fi and Fantasy Fun > >- -----Original Message----- >From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org >[mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Stabernide - >Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 9:10 AM >To: deltagreen@nocturne.org >Subject: RE: DG: The BOYS > > >Andy Gable wrote;- > >>The BOYS probably see the Mi-Go (who respect the GOO, but don't >serve >>them) >>as, basically, heathens. Intelligent and valuable heathens, perhaps, >but >>heathen nonetheless. Thus, the BOYS' conflict with the aliens is >probably >>more of a holy war than anything else - they probably only disguise >their >>activities as saving mankind from the Mi-Go to make them seem more >>acceptable and "the lesser of two evils," as you wrote. > >This is pretty much the view I advocate;- The way the Mi-Go 'worship' the >Old Ones is going to be significantly different from the kind of >wholehearted devotion practised by the Kn'yani. Many of the Mi-Go's actions >would be considered blasphemy in their eyes. In addition, the Kn'yani's >arrogant belief in their own innate superiority won't allow them to >acknowledge anyone else could be worthy of Hastur's favour. Hence, they will >at times direct their efforts at human cultists as well. In a version of the >Evil Stars I ran a few years ago, the Brotherhood assasinated Brian Lochnar >before he could complete the summoning of Hastur, and set up one of the >investigators as the Mark Chapman of the nineties (que futile attempt to >clear the guys name by fellow investigators). > >Then Dave said;- > >>Maybe. I always went with the "You scumbag fungi experimented on my >>great-grandmother!" revenge motive. I figure the K'n Yannis have a >>considerably better understanding of the cosmos than we, and so >concepts >>like "heathen" mean little to them. Also, the K'n Yannis are still >> >fighting >>to survive--there's not many of them, and the Mi=Go would probably >love to >>finish them off. > >As I understood it, the Kn'yani themselves are fairly secure in their >underground cities; there's no evidence to suggest that the Mi-Go have ever >actively sought to change this. No doubt the Brotherhood can prove to be a >real pain in the arse to the Mi-Go, but by and large their operations on >Earth aren't going to be seriously disrupted by them. As a consequence, I >have the Mi-Go as being largely indifferent to the Brotherhood- attacking >them re-actively rather than pro-actively. > >Someone rattled Steve's cage;- > >>A question is whether the BOYS represent 'mainstream' K'n-yani >>culture, as depicted in "The Mound," or whether they're an activist >>offshoot. Without giving away the story, "The Mound" does seem to >>depict the K'n-yani as introverted, languid aesthetes. > >I paint the Brotherhood as an activist movement originating in Kn'yan many >thousands of years ago- then coming to the surface and maintaining only >minimal contact with Kn'yani ever since. They have support at an 'official' >level, but would probably find it difficult to call upon it. > >>Also, I tend to make K'n-yan MUCH bigger than just a small portion of >>the Midwest underground. There are stories about advanced underground >>civilizations along the West Coast, with one of their main cities >>being under what is now the main branch of the Los Angeles Public >>Library. Honest, you can look it up on LAPL's web page: >>http://www.lapl.org/central/urbanleg.html > >Being a fan 'Hollow earth' and 'King of the world' type mythology, I concur. >Some time ago I ran a Gaslight adventure where my investigators provided the >inspiration for 'Tarzan at the Centre of the earth'. Great link by the way; >I only wish I'd seen it a year ago. > >Dave had more to say;- > >>Connections with MJ-12 could be interesting--BOYS trying to aid MJ >> >projects >>that will be used against the Mi-Go. > >The Brotherhoods leadership don't like or trust 'surface cattle'; I don't >think they'd side with Majestic as they see them as the Mi-Go's latest >pawns. The Brotherhood also have their own extremely effective anti-Fungi >technology. > >Getting back to the issue of recruitment I brought up in the first post, I >see the Brotherhood achieving this largely through mind >control/brainwashing. I have in mind an 'initiation' process that makes >MKULTRA look like the Paul Mckenna show. One feature is a subteranean fungus >called Rez- a halluconegenic that is administered alongside a Brother's >psychic sendings, and also results in certain metabolic changes. Two of my >players got fed this in the final chapter of my last campaign; although they >didn't get 'the full monty' as far as the psychic/brainwashing bit goes; a >good thing, for them. The Brotherhood doesn't just rewrite minds; but souls. > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:09:37 -0500 >From: "Shane Ivey" >Subject: RE: DG: Reefer Madness! > >Heroin and morphine are both opiates--both drugs feed the same physical >addiction. A jonesing addict can get a fix from either one, or from any >number of easily-abused prescription painkillers and analogs (i.e., >methadone). The high won't be the same, but it will get rid of the shakes, >the cramps, the flu symptoms, and all the other lingering joys of opiate >addiction. It won't do jack, though, for the week-long constipation, the >stinky sweats, and the red-eyed stare. > > >SHANE IVEY >This week at www.zealot.com: >The Latest Reviews, Twenty Years in Comics, and more on The Lord of the >Rings! >Zealot: Sci-Fi and Fantasy Fun > >- -----Original Message----- >From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org >[mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of ScottSaylo@aol.com >Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 10:48 PM > ><addiction >with another.>> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 10:16:09 MST >From: "D.L. Serius" >Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy > >>I mean after all, are we really helping people by keeping them in the dark >>about everything? > >Say DG decided to open it all up to the public: > >Cultist would be protected by freedom of religon laws, apart from direct >criminal activities (sacrifices, etc.) any interference from law enforcement >or indignant citizens becomes a violation of civil rights and brings forth >litigation. Cultist would have much more leeway in their operations, and a >new weapon with which to attack enemies (litigation, that is). > >For everyone who sees the threat, there will be 2 people who feel that the >Mythos is just misunderstood, and that things can be resolved by >negotiations. > >Congress would have to be involved. Passing laws to regulate Mythos >activity, oversight committees, sending Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson to >handle above negotiations, and generally handling things as well as they >always do. > >You mean they want to risk American lives to kill some kind of fish man? >Ain't no American life worth the lives of hunnerds o' them fish guys, nor >them flying sponge guys neither! Hell no, we won't go! > >Everyone who is short on morals just learned the secret to the big picture, >and every one of them thinks he can beat the system and get all the goods >without paying the price. > >Most people can't handle the message. They'd try to go on as if nothing had >happened. Just like now, no one wants to get involved, it's too >inconvenient. If you can't get a citizen to sit in on a jury or vote, >there's no way he's going to go anywhere near anything as bad as a Mythos >monster. Hey, let some other guy handle it, it's not my problem. > >This is just the tip of the iceberg. If it could happen, it would shatter >our way of life. I think DG is fighting to preserve the 'American' way of >life, or at least the ideals. I'm sure most DG agents have the "You need us >on those walls, you WANT us on those walls" mentality. Telling the world >would be a situation where you burn down the town to save it. There really >are some Things Man Was Not Meant to Know (tm). > >Big D. >- --I apologize for the very American slant to the above post, it is a direct >result of my being an ingorant American, truly. > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:22:24 -0000 >From: "Crossingham, Adam" >Subject: DG: Signals Intercept re 11 Aug 99 Total Solar Eclipse Event > >Intercept Starts. > >++++++++++++++++++ > >URGENT ADVISORY >FROM: Cell Y >TO: Cell A > >PRIORITY ALPHA ONE > >PROPOSAL FOR AN ORDER TO ALL ACTIVE AND INACTIVE CELL MEMBERS OPERATING IN >THE UK >SUGGEST IMMEDIATE DISSEMINATION TO ALL CELL LEADERS > >Intelligence gathered indicates that the unidentified hostile force >operating in the United Kingdom is preparing to use the Total Solar Eclipse >event on August 11, 1999 to attack and strengthen it's hold on the UK's >political, intelligence and military assets as well as it's defence and >aerospace industries. The target list of potential risks is confined within >the eclipse path of 100% and 95% Totality, and the hostile force may be >massing forces in this path in which to exploit Totality. > >Cell agents and their friendlies are advised against operations in the >Somerset or Greater London areas on August 11 as the hostile force appears >to have it's greatest concentration of assets in these areas. If a contact >has to be met on August 11, take extra precautions in regard to contact, >exchange and exit protocols, and arrange the meeting to take place above >Latitude N 54 degrees, or in an area subject to less than 87% Totality. > >Stay Alert and Check In with a Buddy. > >++++++++++++++++++ > >Intercept Ends. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:11:01 -0700 >From: Phil A Posehn >Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green Eyes 1 > >Hey Guys, > >Does anybody know when the DG core book reprint is due out? > >Phil > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:53:35 -0700 >From: Phil A Posehn >Subject: Re: DG: Total eclipse of the sun > >Well said! > >Phil > > >On Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:07:56 EDT USFORREC1@aol.com writes: >>In a message dated 8/6/99 3:59:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: >> >><< > It's so bad that I could argue that ANYTHING about events outside >>of the >> > US is not off topic! >> >> There really seems to be a conspiracy to keep the American public >>ignorant >>of >> foreign matters... >> >> >> >> This is a great conspiracy to keep us uninformed. probably >>several of >>the factions in the DG world have a vested interest in this. Keep >>Americans >>isolated and entertained and you've got a scared but docile group of >>sheep. >>Let them become wrapped up in their own world and not see any kind of >>larger >>picture and you are free to do your work in the shadows. Most of the >>major >>television networks are owned by large corporations that are going to >>serve >>their own interests first. GE owns NBC and is notorious for putting a >>spin >>or editing anti-nuclear power news pieces, so its not a far cry to >>suspect >>them of being one of the corps tied with MJ and helping in that >>disinformation campaign. Other networks/newspapers/magazines can have >> >>similar controls on them from COT, the Fate or whoever. Don't want to >>know >>about cocaine wars in South America supported by the Fate-no reporters >>or a >>10-second news blurb...no conspiracy there, then and so on. >> When you do focus on foriegn events, show them in such a light as >>the >>rest of the world is backwards, filled with wannabe Hitlers and filth, >>death >>and decay. You further become an isolated sheep, glad for whatever >>powers >>that be to do what they will to keep your American dream alive and >>sweep the >>nasties under the rug. The same is done within America. Want to view >>a >>city, we will show you the worst ghetto around. We feel that is right >> >>outside our door and become scared. We isolate ourselves from our >>neighbors >>and our world. Things can then creep through our neighborhoods and we >>won't >>see them. We are too glad to get our fix of sitcoms or "reality" TV >>to take >>the edge off that harsh world outside. We hide and don't see the >>pieces of >>the puzzle coming together and that is exactly what THEY want, a >>nation of >>unseeing, fearful sheep enjoying the decay of our civilization through >>the >>new gladitorial games and orgies of cable TV. It may be one of the >>most >>perfect (and subtle) plots of all... >> >>-Dave K > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:38:47 -0700 >From: Phil A Posehn >Subject: Re: DG: American isolationism > >Up here in Sacramento whining about the Russians is the xenophobic flavor >of the month. After I've listened to all I can stand I usually remark " >Yeah! If Reagan had given the Communists foreign aid we wouldn't be in >this mess!" > >Watching good patriotic jingoistic xenophobes torn red around the ears, >white everywhere else except for their blue lips is loads of fun! > > >Phil Posehn > > >On Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:34:41 EDT LizardRoi@aol.com writes: >>In a message dated 99-08-06 17:48:41 EDT, you write: >> >><< Oh my, You guys really underestimate those Canadians.... >> >> ECKHARD >> >> >> >> Tell me about it. I think I mentioned this somewhere else, but >>someone once >>estimated that Los Angeles would rank as Canada's 8th largest city, if >>you >>count the Canadians living here (illegally BTW). >> Incidentally, I, personally do not believe in immigration laws or the >> >>concept of borders. Or nations, come to think of it. So, as far as I'm >> >>concerned, the more the merrier. Y'all are welcome. >> I love to mess with people's heads, however. I like to let some >>blowhard go >>off about how those damn illegals are ruining everything and yada yada >>you >>know the drill. And I nod agreeably about what a damn shame it is to >>have our >>heritage imperiled by those sinister invaders with the weird language >>and >>incompatible culture yada yada ad nauseum. Then, just when they think >>they've >>found a anti-Hispanic compadre, I say "Yep, those fuckin' Canadians >>have got >>to go." >> They kind of go goggle-eyed. So I say "I don't know about you, but I >>have >>never lost a career opportunity because a Mexican illegal took the >>job. But a >>Canadian college grad is another story altogether. I mean, they're >>WHITE." >> You can see their gyros tumbling. >> Of course, when I start hearing stories about skinhead >>Canuck-bashing, I'll >>probably feel bad. >> >>Mark McFadden >> By carefully selecting my ancestors, I insured my present status as a >>White >>American Christian Anglo Saxon male. So don't blame me because you >>didn't >>plan ahead. >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:45:23 +0200 (CEST) >From: alex@bofh.torun.pl (Janusz A. Urbanowicz) >Subject: Re: DG: Reefer Madness! > >> Janusz A. Urbanowicz schrieb: >> >> > Heh, I start to get used to it. Once I begun writing a story involving >> > Mythos (possibly also DG[1]) with some action based in German brothel >> > featuring slavewomen from all around Eastern Europe, to find a half of the >> > story in spe discussed by Eckhard and others. Don't know if I'll finish it. >> >> I'm curious: Just what part did we of your story did we discuss? > >Using mentioned slavewomen as breeders, and reactions of the family (I've >already written a scene when one of the girls father finds her (or, what's >left of her after being drugged with some Funguys conococt for months). > >Alex >- -- > * | Janusz A. "Alex" Urbanowicz, \ Home: > --+~| | http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/~alex/ \ Work: > `_|/ | Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife -- chopping off what's > | | incomplete and saying: "Now, it's complete because it's ended here." > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:44:24 +0200 >From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) >Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy > >Good Evening. > >D.L. Serius schrieb: >> >I mean after all, are we really helping people by keeping them in the dark >> >about everything? >> >> Say DG decided to open it all up to the public: >> >> Cultist would be protected by freedom of religon laws, apart from direct >> criminal activities (sacrifices, etc.) any interference from law enforcement >> or indignant citizens becomes a violation of civil rights and brings forth >> litigation. > > >May I quote from the book I learned constitutional law from while being on law >school: > >"Freedom of religion does NOT give you the right to ritually kill toddlers in >public places like your town's mall. Even the freedom of religion is limited by >other peoples' basic laws like the integrity of the body." > > > >[snip] >> For everyone who sees the threat, there will be 2 people who feel that the >> Mythos is just misunderstood, and that things can be resolved by >> negotiations. > >Yes, there would be people waving flags, shouting "Save the Dholes." > >> >> Congress would have to be involved. Passing laws to regulate Mythos >> activity, oversight committees, sending Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson to >> handle above negotiations, and generally handling things as well as they >> always do. > > >I have that strange vision of Jesse Jackson praying together with Nyarlathotep >after a long debate while being filmed by dozens of TV-cameras. > > >ECKHARD > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:09:27 +0200 >From: Davide Mana >Subject: DG: [fiction] Chasing the Bride (Part 8) > >Chasing the Bride - pt. 8 > > >They had got through to the wrong Guy. >This one was Gnarly Boy, the Toe-tapper, the Black Man of Old. >I remembered the Sarnathian chant and it made sense, in its way. >He was dressed in mottled yellow garments the way the moon is dressed with >the solar corona during eclipses. It felt like the rags were not resting on >His form, but simply going the same way at the moment. His body was pitted >with meteor craters and crossed by age-old faults. >He came towards us at a leisurely stroll. >Ignoring me, He directed His full attention on Val. >She staggered, I supported her. >The smile came again, rippling through the air like static. >Mercifully, He turned. >The bullet-head reeled under the impact, tears flooding his rough features, >a trickle of blood dripping from the corner of his mouth as he sank his >teeth in his own tongue, whining. > - You are surprised. >His voice, like His steps, did not echoe in the dome, and was easy, >slightly bored. > - I am not the One you were especting. >The hierophant fell on his knees. > - You do not understand. >Something resembling a dry chuckle escaped the Black Man's lips. > - In truth, you thought your ilk cold possibly perceive the true nature of >a God in such depth and detail to be able to single Him from the Whole. You >thought there was possible to perceive a clear demarcation, maybe, >something that made One and the Other, Two, and Separate. You think praying >to One, and sacrificing, is not sacrificing, and praying, yes, to All in >One. Silly. >The man was trembling. > - You thought it would be possible to cast your pityful frailties on a >God, dressing Him up in motley, and this way to Understand something that's >beyond your grasp as tap dancing is to fishes. >The similarity was something of a letdown, I admit. >His laughter felt like steel leaves tossed by the wind. >He extended a hand and passed a finger over the hierophant's chin, >collecting a drop of blood and lifting it up in front of its black, opaque >eyes. > - But did not I, out of My Love for your kind, give all the wise men the >right pointers, the significant stepping stones, the essential building >blocks to achieve Truth? - His voice softened, he pointed the finger down >and let the drop fall to the floor. - From the time I convinced you not to >drag your knuckles in the dirt anymore onwards, was I not always there >pointing to the Rule, helping you along to achieve Comprehension? >There was an edge of resentment, of hurt godly feelings. > - Did I not lead Akenathon and Moses and Peter by the hand to their >epiphany, did I not lay the numbers down for Schrodinger, spelling the Way >Things Are as plain as I could for all to see, and Become? >He shook His head, staring the mad hierophant in the eyes. > - But you will not listen, will you? - Sharp, cutting. - You prefer your >silly games and your pathetic pets, painted bears, bird-headed demons, >golden bulls, doves, cats, to shield you from the Unavoidable. >He straightened. - The sheer cheeck of it all! >He pointed to the remains of the congregation. - You planned to lure your >God of chioce from its starry exhile, baiting Him with a prophesized Bride >built to measure through the Dream, to unleash Him on the wakeworld through >the Dreams of billions, and this for petty reasons that are unworthy of >mention. >He pointed a finger. - That red patch wanted to humiliate his father. That >smear of grease on the wall desired money and women. You...! >The black finger tapped the forehead of the hierophant. - You did it >because it was espected of your line! Not even the honestly cheap ambition >of an upstart ape. What a let down, my son! >The hand retreated, leaving a black dot where the fingertip had connected >with skin. - Unsurprisingly therefore you do not understand.... Bacause >your line will not listen to the Truth, is that so? No matter what, you >won't get it in your head, none else but Me will ever come because He That >Shalt Not Be Named is no more, nor He ever was for you and your kin, but He >is, because only the All in One will be in the End, and is the One Beyond? >A gurgle escaped the pale lips of the kneeling man. > - It still escapes you! >A paper-thin blade of fury was creeping in the Black Man's voice. > - Do I have to spell it out for you in words even a baby would understand? >- - He chuckled again - If only he had the spark your race lacks, or gains >only by losing all of itself, that is. Listen then as I tell you there is >no hope but the One, and its all-consuming Hunger, all-communing Act of >Devouring. >The hierophant let out a scream that did not succeed in drowning the Black >man's voice. - Your classifications are obsolete, sons of the Ape. All the >old Gods that Were are going, Each in its own time will be swept up and >incorporated, devoured and digested as the galaxies spiral into each other >crushing worlds and suns by the billion, like specks of dust in a >hurricane. Maybe this place and its Gods will go last, - He encompassed the >hall, the Jungles and the whole of the Lands with a single sweep of an arm, >- - tucked away as They are, but away They will go nonetheless. They will all >join the revels at the Mad Piper's tune, and with Them will go all races >and things and matter and energy, because All is One in the End as in the >Beginning, till End and Beginning are One again themselves. >The voice fell to a whisper. - I'm the First and the Last and should know, >don't you think? > - Stupid factionalism is a thing of the past. Elder, Outer, Other, who >cares? - A glint of the former urbane personality flashed back. - These are >monotheistic times, my friend. >He slapped a black hand on the kneeling man's head. > - And all your chasing the Bride... >The fingers flexed. > - ... Would just be another useles exercise... >Squeezing. > - ... In worthless theological manipulation. >A creaking noise. > - Pathetic. >The skull crunched. >The man slumped on the floor. > - And yet! >He stepped up and approached the Bride, lifting the veil lightly. > - And yet how do I love the craftmanship of your race. The sheer talent >expressed by such a work of art. I will always harbor a weak spot for you. >The hubris of the Creator in the fragile shell of the Created. >It was our missing girl, or what was left of her. >She was thirtysomething by the looks of her, delicately made up, muscular >body encased in a gold scales dress and animal pelts. > - To build an ideal out of a few bits and pieces, while at the same time >so thoroughly and marvellously twisting and perverting the original, that >no vestige of it remains but in flitting memories. >I passingly wondered how many years had been taken up by her education and >conditioning. More than fifteen surely. >Not that time counted that much, here in Slumberland. > - True to the game, a pawn was turned into a Queen.... >There was admiration in His voice, as his gaze swept the remains of the >battle. > - ... by sacrificing all the other pieces. >A black hand sneaked between bronzed temple and silk bonnet, dislodging a >rich wave of luscious black hair that fell caressing the cheek and landed >on the exposed, firm breast. >- - Exquisite. A God's feat ideed. >Her almost perfect almond eyes were raptly fixed over the Black Man's >features, the golden-tinted lips parting in a smile that was just a little >too open, baring teeth just a little too sharp. >She straightened her shoulders, offering a gold-dust sprayed cleavage, and >let out a sensuous sigh. >The Black Man laughed heartily, an almost human sound. > - Tempting strumpet, eh? >He turned to us and winked. >It hurt. > - And to imagine that less than a gnat's life ago she killed another just >like her and ripped her innards with these lovely fingers. Versatile. >He stepped back and raised a hand, stroking her shadow. >She contorted, miewling with pleasure, utterly devoid of any restraint. > - Basic but fulfilling, I guess. >He moved his hand again, like he was handling some remote control. >She let out a guttural wet chuckle, bending forward and straightening her >legs. >More gestures. >A thin veil of perspiration appeared on her forehead, legs letting go under >her and she falling on the floor, curling up in a foetal position, letting >out aprolonged, orgasmic sigh. > - Eh, - He sighed, turning to us - I can't but wonder if good old Hastur >had not grasped some higher truth after all. Me, should I beget Myself >again, I'll be sure to have a stint as a full time shepherd's god. Leave >all this posturing to someOne more temperamentally suited than Me, and go >for a bit of action in the open fields. Good for your health and your spirit. >He turned back to the curled up woman. > - Tempting, - he repeated. He clicked His tongue - A pity I'm already >otherwise engaged. >He spent a breath's time thinking, a painful smile growing over his lips. > - But I'm not the kind to waste a good Queen. I think I'll set her back on >the chessboard, and let your friends play out her game. >The girl was gone. >He slapped His hands together and rubbed them, turning to us for the last >time. > - The two of you, now! >His tone was businesslike. > - Now, I'd like to state from the beginning that I'm enchanted by the job >you did. Splendid. And I mean both you as individuals and as a whole race. >Great improvisational skills, great sense of tempo, a definitive >performance. You make me proud, kids. >He seemed somehow embarassed. - So you see, it's just for form's sake I'm >gonna delete you from creation. >He let it sink in, then smiled again. - But as I'm at it, I'll put up a >brave face and enjoy my duty. No ill feelings, I hope? >Val shook her head. > - You can't. > - C'mon.... - He was clearly not wasting any more time on our case. - >You're gonna stand against me? What are you, a third-class dreamer? >He shook his head. - Kuranes himself could not stand his ground against Me. >Not a whole legion of Kuranes could as far as inconvenience Me unless I so >decided for My own purposes. So try for once and be a good looser, will >you? Or are you seriously going to try and stop me? >She took a step forward, and I followed suit. > - Not me. The Other Gods. While they last. >He was not pleased. I felt my gums bleeding under his stare. > - You can't touch us. - Val continued, dizzily - This is Kled. We carry >our own food and water. We did not touch beast, artefact, flowers or tree. >Strenght failed her, and I held her up, picking up her line. >- - We're protected by the rule of the land, - I said, his stare blinding me, >- - and the curse of the Other Gods. >He was clenching his fist. > - We're protected, - I repeated. - This place and those that come under >its Law are the Other God's. It's the Rule of the Land. >He let go. >A final laugh escaped Him. > - I always hated Rules Lawyers. With all due respect. But as yet.... Great >improvisers, as I said, the lot of you kids. >He looked at the walls surrounding us, letting sheer, honest admiration for >it all surface once again and distend His features. > - Next time, then, - He said, with a small bow. - When the Other Gods will >be One and this place will be in shambles I'll come for the two of you. >Personally. >Uncannily, it was my time to laugh. > - By then we'll be long gone, - I told him. > - Thinks thou that will be enough to fall beyond my reach? - he asked >mockingly. > - Yes, - I said. >But he was gone. > > >I laid down Val quietly by the door, arranging her air and her clothes, >checking her slow breathing and troubled pulse. >I washed her face with some of the remaining water, wet her lips and mine >and cast the useless waterskin away. >Then I sat next to her and there, under the stare of the Other Gods, we lay >holding hand, and gladly slipped into Wakefulness. > > >[end of part 8] > >- ------------------------------ > >Almost done - one brief snippt still to post, then it's over. >And not a second too soon - a system failure a few hours ago erased the >original text file (plus all other work done these last few weeks) and I >had to patch together these last two chapters from notes and memory (and >skipping dinner). >If this is not a sign.... >I hope the bits and pieces fit together. > >So, Endgame coming in 24 hours or less. >Be seeing you. > > Davide Mana > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:16:20 EDT >From: PaganArt@aol.com >Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green Eyes 1 > >Phil screamed: > ><>> > >Right now, its on the docket for an October release date, but we're >considering options out here right now. How many people would be interested >in a hard cover edition of DG? How much more would you be willing to pay for >something like that, if at all? With John Tynes' DG novel in limited >edition, we have all been wowed by the ease of hard cover. Anyway, if no one >is interested, we will do a soft cover 3rd reprint just the same. > >- -Dennis Detwiller >Who just got through loading 96 cartons of DG: COUNTDOWN into the Pagan >garage, and no longer loves the book like he once did. >Pagan Publishing > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:39:49 +0200 (CEST) >From: alex@bofh.torun.pl (Janusz A. Urbanowicz) >Subject: Re: Flickers [was Re: DG: St. Jerome activity] > >> On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, Davide Mana wrote: >> >> > Brunetta has spent the last ten years researching a follow-up to "Buio in >> > sala", tracing the development of an "iconaut culture" in Europe - a >> > culture of the image as opposed to one of the spoken or written word. >> > According to the guy, a language of images is today available to us through >> > the efforts of artists through the centuries - from the Caves of Altamira >> > through the Reinassance painters up to Howard Hawks. >> >> This shared social imagery is part of Western Culture. We watch the same >> (or similar) TV shows and movies, we read the same books. It's all common >> experience - and it's spreading. Distinctive cultures cut off >> technologically from the mass of information currently dominating the >> globe are being eroded. Each moment in time brings humanity closer to the >> day that the world will be homogenous in all ways. > >Interesting. I lately realized that I have two mental cliches of 'war'. One >is those I've been feed by being upbringed in Poland (like the war-time >movies and stuff), another is 'choppers over jungle' implanted by lots of >american movies (Platoon, Apocalypse NOW!), not to mention by lots of playing >"Lost Patrol" back in the Amiga days. > >I start to believe that american popculture is a meme. > >Alex >- -- > * | Janusz A. "Alex" Urbanowicz, \ Home: > --+~| | http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/~alex/ \ Work: > `_|/ | "Historii nie można tworzyć. \____ RSA: 512/0xAB425659 > | | Można jedynie mieć nadzieję, że się ją przetrwa." - G'Kar, Babylon 5 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:10:20 -0400 >From: Daniel Harms >Subject: Re: DG: DG -- Why the Secrecy > >At 10:16 AM 8/9/99 MST, you wrote: > >>Say DG decided to open it all up to the public: > >>Cultist would be protected by freedom of religon laws, apart from direct >>criminal activities (sacrifices, etc.) any interference from law enforcement >>or indignant citizens becomes a violation of civil rights and brings forth >>litigation. Cultist would have much more leeway in their operations, and a >>new weapon with which to attack enemies (litigation, that is). > >Here's my alternate scenario: > >Let's face it, the Mythos is pretty funky. Take five or six of your >wilder conspiracy theories, toss them in a blender, and you might get >something >approaching the Mythos in sheer wildness. By the time your agent's been >through a dozen missions, they may have run into fishmen living beneath >the ocean (Deep Ones), aliens from Pluto backed by a top secret government >agency (Greys/Mi-Go/MJ12), aliens from yet another planet who take control >of people by flying into their heads (Insects from Shaggai), Nazis who >control >a worldwide network of hate groups and an army of zombies (Karotechia), >strange cults whose magic REALLY works, and all the weirdness from the DG >scenarios in the main book (I won't spoil them for others). > >And DG is going to go on the six o'clock news and tell the American people >all of this? > >I don't think so. One of these scenarios would be more than enough to >guarantee that no one in the mainstream media would talk to you. Even if >a representative did get on the air and offer evidence, the only people who >would >take them seriously are the sort who believe that the government and the >Rockefellers killed Elvis and faked the moon landings using radio receivers >in people's heads . (But what about any evidence they might have? See below.) > >But what if they did do this? Here's my scenario. > >- -- DG approaches certain high-profile people in the media to try to arrange >some sort of public revelation. This is something of a chancy thing, as I >doubt most of the news outlets would even touch something like this. Perhaps >an intelligence agency finds out about these queries before the broadcast, but >even if they don't, the cat's out of the bag once it goes out. If the >media can >establish the speaker's bona fides, so can the government. > >- -- Once the government notices, the trouble starts. The spin doctors enter, >and it isn't so tough to convince people that the guy/gal talking about the >weird >aliens and cults and magic was insane, or lying. But what about the evidence, >you ask? Well, not too many people will be able to see it in person, and odds >are most of them won't be able to evaluate it (would you be able to tell a >REAL >Deep One claw or alien body from a fake?). It can probably be snapped up in >a way that doesn't look like government intervention (the Smithsonian wants >its whale teeth back, if you please, and Steven Spielberg wants to know where >you got that wonderful costume). > >- -- The government realizes the import of this material, and clamps down on it >hard. If their technicians are able to establish that even one of these >things >is true, they'll probably set up an organization (or take over an existing >one) >to investigate it. (Maybe this is MJ12, but probably not.) > >- -- DG is crippled. The government has a face for DG, and if they >went on the national media, it's likely that a lot of operatives start >going under, >cell structure or no, once each agency starts conducting its internal review. >Those caught may be approached by the new org - be charged for your >crimes, or work for us. > >- -- The public doesn't believe the story, DG is severely weakened, and now >there's an agency that is interested in everything DG is - but for the >purposes >of making it useful to the US government. If they do find out that certain >religious cults are actually able to use magic, they'll be taken out. >Certain >beings will be destroyed, others harnessed, still others negotiated with. And >in the end, things will be much worse. > >Thoughts? > >Yrs., > > >Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu >"I had come frighteningly near to the capture of an old >secret which ventured close to man's haunts and lurked >cautiously just beyond the edge of the known. Yet in the >end I had nothing." - H. P. Lovecraft and Robert H. Barlow > >------------------------------ > >End of deltagreen-digest V2 #28 >******************************* > ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #31 *******************************