From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #36 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Tuesday, August 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 036 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:25:49 -0400 From: becole@juno.com Subject: Re: DG: A question for the DG Gun Fondlers (TM) On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 03:07:27 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black writes: >But seriously folks, if you are looking for some ideas on Swimming in >Role-Playing try the Blue Planet RPG I loved it, it was much better than Cats.....I will watch it again and again. Thanks. You da man (in Black) -B ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:38:59 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Secret History Greetings some more. It's Axis time (a pity SuperDave's vacationing, we'll have to do without Japan), and Eckhard wrote >Most of the research and discussion about the 3rd Reich is about the reasons just >how this could all happen and why in Germany. Obviously there are good reasons >for such research and discussion in Germany. But why German historians seem to >ignore such things like the occults background of Nazism seems strange and still >not very clear to me. On a party with a couple of historians and history students >I once mentioned the connection between Nazism and the occult and got nearly >kicked out, being told this was ridiculous and that one had to be more serious >when talking about such a topic. I faced the same problem once or twice - the idea of Hitler planning his Russian front on the basis of astrological predictions, or trying to collect "artefacts of power" (where's Gary Gygax when you need him?) to make his armies invincible is generally greeted with opposition, ranging from disbelief, to superior attitudes, to open hostility. In the end, I nailed at least one component of this refusal. First, consider that in our society - despite the efforts of the New Agers - - belief in supernatural or methaphysical facts is a clear sign of pathetic insanity or derangement. Therefore, many people reject the idea of such a tragedies as WW2 and the Holocaust depending only ion the whims of a clearly deranged man believing in fairies. For many it's better to build the Myth of Hitler the strategical genius (a plain nonsense) or the Evil Monster (simplistic an a manicheistic way), than to accept the idea of Hitler the Kook with good PR skills, basically in the light of the consequences of his actions. So much suffering fueled by plain credulity is too much for many - and if you think about it, _it is scary_. So, the objection about needing to be "more serious" when dealing with Nazism incapsulates the problem quite nicely - believing in the Grail and reincarnation is not serious, it gives a discordant screech when coupled with the millions of dead and all the suffering. Stupid, limited attitude, of course, but that's part of the problem. >I am not really certain if you have to dead serious about Nazism, since laughing >about or at terrible things weakens them. And helps putting them in perspective. >But ignoring facts that you consider too strange or ridiculous for you research >for whatever reason is just plain stupid. Worse, it's bad research. People ignoring data while researching should be kicked out of universities. [sorry, an autobigraphical twitch] >Perhaps Karotechis is behind that ignorance. Hmmmmm. The idea that someone manipulated the collective "will to (selectively) forget the bad parts" for his own sinister purposes is the core of what Conspiracy Theory we have in Italy (don't start me on that one). While perusing the usual Brunetta book about the evolution of the moviegoing public, I was treated with a highly conspiratorial chapter dedicated to this attitude, seen as the cause of the untimely demise of Italian Neorealism. Without getting into too twisted cinephile rants, the idea is that the will to forget was used "ad-hoc" to attune the population to a light entertainment, deleting twenty years of history - and thus restoring the virginity of many politicians - and numbing the population's social conscience through candy-coloured "feelgood" fodder, with minimal injections of guilt thrown in. The resulting public's indifference to social issues (the Neorealist bill) was the basis of 50 years of political degeneration and corruption. [and here Mark should chime in to remind us that movies are at the core of everything] So, yes. Karotechia could well be behind this German (but not exclusively German) veil of disbelief and indifference, and for obvious reasons ("Walking corpses? Plainly absurd, cut it from your master thesis"). Sponsoring the right kind of research to establish a certain mindset is much easier than it sounds - anyone that did research in a university knows. [sorry, another autobiog. slip] But keep in mind that the Allies, too, had a hand in the process. And I'll end this already overlong post with an evil, anti-Spielberg thought - how much did the Indiana Jones movies and franchise contribute in undermining the beliveability of the occult roots of Nazism? Was it a coincidence? Here I end my rant for the time being. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:41:57 +0200 From: Martin Ostergaard Subject: DG: Danish Delta Green site This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------AEF742E16C3946BF4F8CE94A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello fellow conspirators =) I was hoping that some of you are Danish or lives in Denmark (not many by my reckonings), because I just started a site and would like some help/input/criticism. It is in Danish, so will look like gibberish if you do not under- stand the language ;) I will try and add a translation of the contents at some point. Please use the email to contact me, as the address Ive put on the site doesnt really work yet ;) The site address is: http://www.DeltaGreen.dk Cheers, Martin - --------------AEF742E16C3946BF4F8CE94A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="creepy.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Martin Ostergaard Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="creepy.vcf" begin:vcard n:Ostergaard;Martin x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.pir.net/~creepy adr:;;Flojstrupvej 56;Vejle;;7100;Denmark version:2.1 email;internet:creepy@ragnarok.nu title:Mr note:ICQ: 6710286 x-mozilla-cpt:;2080 fn:Martin Ostergaard end:vcard - --------------AEF742E16C3946BF4F8CE94A-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:59:56 EDT From: Olaughing@aol.com Subject: DG: I'm BACK! Howdy, Esteemed Brothers on the ML, I'm back from Vermont (quit eyeing me that way, MIB, it's just a cold) and going through my backlog of DGML Mr. Tenebrous Wrote: > True, true,but let a brother whine. ;) Btw, Fantasy Flight is going to put > out a supplement too called 'Cthulhu Noir' which is the CL supplement for > gaming in the 30-50's....buy it! WHEN WHEN WHEN? > Lastly, does anyone on this diversified list dive professionally? Not professionally, but I took a class in it in college. What do you need to know? If you're talking about visibility, it goes away very quickly--it's almost always pitch black at 200 feet, earlier if you're somewhere without direct sunlight (i.e. away from the equator) and significant amounts of particulate accumulation (say, near the Eastern Seaboard of the US) you've got a fair chance of not being able to see your hand in front of your face at 75 feet. Sure they have high-powered watertight flashlights, but they only go in ONE direction, and like all flashlights, it's easier to see them than to see with them. I caught the French broadcast on the eclipse, and thought it was very interesting to find out that this was the first solar eclipse to be photographed from space. Some French astronaut filmed the thing from Mir, and it was quite impressive--this huge black blot moving slowly across the face of the earth. What was most interesting was that it wasn't disk-shaped, but more chaotic and tentacle-y, because of the whorls of the clouds it fell on. Creepy. More frightening that looking at it the other way. It's good to be back... John Goodrich Delta Green Friendly AND Cthulhu Cultist. You figure it out. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:13:12 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: Re: DG: Secret History Eckhard Huelshoff: <<< Strangely, while you could definitely find most information here, such research does not really happen by Germans and I guess such shows would be nearly impossible over here. >>> I think one of the people being interviewed for Secret history is Prof. Bettina Arnold, a German archaeologist who's studied Nazi archaeology policy, but she's based at the Univ. of Wisconsin, and her degrees are American so it's seems like it's a field that isn't encouraged in the Fatherland. 1930s archaeology is an interesting period as techniques like widescale excavation and landscape archaeology were being applied and tried for the first time. The pioneers in this field were European, and mostly German - something to do with a world-wide depression and totalitarian regimes enabling large workforces to be assembled cheaply. There's a famous example a German pioneer who fled Germany before the war and spent the war on the Isle of Wight excavating (if I've remembered my facts correctly). <<< Most of the research and discussion about the 3rd Reich is about the reasons just how this could all happen and why in Germany. Obviously there are good reasons for such research and discussion in Germany. >>> There is of course Michael H. Kater's "Das ' Ahnenerbe' der SS 1935 - 1945" - - (already previously mentioned on this list) and looks like it could be the set text (and only text) on the subject. I'm sure German readers could win friends and prizes by offering to read and produce select translations of parts of this book for list members [HUGE HINT!!]. <<< But why German historians seem to ignore such things like the occults background of Nazism seems strange and still not very clear to me. On a party with a couple of historians and history students I once mentioned the connection between Nazism and the occult and got nearly kicked out, being told this was ridiculous and that one had to be more serious when talking about such a topic. >>> The Allies made sure that very little reference was made of the Nazis religious beliefs at the Nuremberg war crimes trials so that the defendants couldn't offer an insanity plea and get off. Jewish groups like Simon Wiesenthal have concentrated on the racial experimentation aspect of the Ahnenerbe and the Nazis. There's no reason why the post-war German authorities should alter the policy - racial hate is an easier concept to grasp than a set of conflicting and crazy beliefs. <<< Perhaps Karotechis is behind that ignorance. >>> Could be. Appear powerless to stop your enemies from persecuting you. Another culprit might be DG itself, orchestrating attempts to squash knowledge or to make it worthless in order to deprive potential cultists and the Russians from benefiting from the knowledge that the Nazis stirred up. The Karotechia war effort should be seen as the greatest esoteric and occult venture the world has seen since Ancient Egyptian times, possibly even the Hyborian Age. - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:44:38 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Secret History Davide Mana schrieb: > Greetings some more. > > It's Axis time (a pity SuperDave's vacationing, we'll have to do without > Japan), and Eckhard wrote [snip] Willkommen an Bord, Verbuendeter ;-) > > I faced the same problem once or twice - the idea of Hitler planning his > Russian front on the basis of astrological predictions, or trying to > collect "artefacts of power" (where's Gary Gygax when you need him?) to > make his armies invincible is generally greeted with opposition, ranging > from disbelief, to superior attitudes, to open hostility. It would probably the best way to ruin you academic career to seriously research in that direction, even though there is clear evidence: Just take a look at the SS and its Camelot the Wewelsburg. Interestingly enough, when there are reports about the Wewelsburg on German TV, the occult aspects of the topic are normally only dealt with for a couple of minutes [ if at all ]. And then it's just considered as some strange, little joke not to be taken seriously. They do not even try to take a closer look. > In the end, I nailed at least one component of this refusal. > First, consider that in our society - despite the efforts of the New Agers > - belief in supernatural or methaphysical facts is a clear sign of pathetic > insanity or derangement. Or as the sign that you are making fun of and insulting the victims. [ snip ] > So, yes. > Karotechia could well be behind this German (but not exclusively German) > veil of disbelief and indifference, and for obvious reasons ("Walking > corpses? Plainly absurd, cut it from your master thesis"). Sponsoring the > right kind of research to establish a certain mindset is much easier than > it sounds - anyone that did research in a university knows. > [sorry, another autobiog. slip] > But keep in mind that the Allies, too, had a hand in the process. One should keep one thing in mind: Many universities in Germany are dominated by Professors whose political identity was formed in the late 1960s and consider themselves left, as well as left-wing students organizations. [ For example: At the university where my law school was found the major parties of the student parliament celebrated a "Red Week" every October inviting politicians from the PDS -the former SED of Eastern Germany- and revolutionaries from the third world ] And it was these people that eagerly adapted the idea of "Political Correctness", the perfect tool te keep people from researching, discussing or even mentioning things that the guardians of PC deem inacceptable. And it's so easy to use: You do not even have to discuss things anymore: Just run into the class, interrupt the professor, use whistles and banners and shout hysterically accusing everybody that is not on your side as being a sexist, racist or a nazi. Don't think about things, just do not allow them to be mentioned. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:53:48 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Pagan Saints Well...the Buddha was accidentally cannonized as St. Josephat. Phil On 16 Aug 99 10:19:43 +0100 Peter Devlin writes: > >Andrew Gable wrote: > >>Not to mention that there would be quite an uproar if a major >Christian >>saint was proved to be based on a pagan god... > >Chasoium's scenario book "Horror's Heart" deals with this topic in a >low-key fashion. > >S >P >O >I >L >E >R >S > >Investigators are asked to assist a Catholic priest in verifying the >origins of the well preserved corpse of a man who is suspected of >having been a Christian saint. Actually he was the original source of >the saints tales but his works were later ascribed to another >Christian. The corpse is that of a Christian turned Mythos cultist and >is later resurrected by his cult. > >Given the level of Christian knowledge on the list perhaps someone can >tell me if this kind of confusion and obfuscation of saintly >backgrounds was common? Or deliberate? I am highly intrigued by the St >Christopher - ghoul link. You could even posit that certain Vatican >sources are aware of the true nature of these particular saints. > >(For those interested, the noted scenario ran exceptionally well and >would serve to introduce the Order of St Jerome in a DG setting - a >Vatican monster hunter appears in the latter stages. It could be >modified to other locations (it is set in Montreal) quite readily.) > >Cheers :-) --> :-0 > >Peter Devlin > >Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/ >The South Side - >http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ >Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk > > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:14:45 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... Greetings. Just short, unsolicited snippet I just got, to give us Euro-trash some more reasons to snigger at the Yanks ;> [please please please do not take this for a flame-bait. It is not.] Apparently, the Kansas Board of Educators has decided that Evolution is not such a good thing after all. According to my man in place >The BOE did not decide to disallow the teaching of evolution in Kansas >classrooms. What they decided was to omit from state standards and from >state standards examinations any menion of evolution, especially evolution >of one species into another (although evolution within a species is >apparently all right by them). Instead of imposing state-level standards, >they have put the issue into the hands of local school boards to decide on >science curricula. As is always true in such instances, this is being done >in the name of fairness, democracy, and all that. As if.... What decided me to let this "good guys vs creationists" argument spill on the list is the bit about "evolution of one species into another". What's scaring the Kansas BOE? Apart from the usual crowd of bigots waving signs, that is. Even better, my man on the spot concludes >The net effect will be that the >battle for truth will have to be carried to every school board and fought >on the local level. ... which is very Delta Green-ish in tone and attitude. Reggie would feel proud. And this is it. Sorry for the noise, gentlemen and ladies. Sweet dreams to all. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:32:38 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Secret History Greetings again. Last post for a while - I'm off to watch "Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey" (hey, you can't survive on a steady diet of Hawks, Moretti and Kurosawa, right?) Eckhard made me feel glad I'm in Italian university - which is pretty scary in itself. >One should keep one thing in mind: Many universities in Germany are dominated by >Professors whose political identity was formed in the late 1960s and consider >themselves left, as well as left-wing students organizations. The first thing you learn in Italian university is - a lot of people will come to you waving banners of different colours; they're all after the same thing - power. The only thing that turns the pathetically comic University politicos in Italy into a scary faction is the fact that they take themselves quite seriously. >And it was these people that eagerly adapted the idea of "Political Correctness", >the perfect tool te keep people from researching, discussing or even mentioning >things that the guardians of PC deem inacceptable. And it's so easy to use: You >do not even have to discuss things anymore: Just run into the class, interrupt >the professor, use whistles and banners and shout hysterically accusing everybody >that is not on your side as being a sexist, racist or a nazi. Don't think about >things, just do not allow them to be mentioned. We do not get to those extremes here in Italy, probably because those systems are too quick - you can waste much more time organizing endless round tables and discussions of the Marxist approach to the Three Bodies Problem, or the Right Wing Interpretation of Sedimentary Sequences [ Ha ha ha, that crazy Italian chap. What a joker, eh? You think I'm joking? These were _real_ debates sponsored by our U. policlubs, as it was "Problems of Honduras bee-farming", a cycle of lectures and fund-rising initiative by the Maths, Phys. and Nat. Sc. Dept. Socialist Youth Movement.] On the other hand, you could get your tyres slashed (if a teacher) or your bones rattled (if a student) for adopting "the wrong attitude". ObDG: political clubs in universities as cheap muscle for Mythos forces to stamp out _sensitive researches_. I guess the extreme right and the Green groups are easily (maybe _too easily_) connected with the Mythos. What about all the rest? BTW - are these sort of clubs a prerogative of Old Europe alone? And here I stop. See you later - try and be excellent with each other, ok? Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:10:42 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: Nazi shooting incident BTW, those interested in modern Neonazi activities might want to check out this URL: http://www.splcenter.org/ Look under "Intelligence Report" for some interesting articles. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "I had come frighteningly near to the capture of an old secret which ventured close to man's haunts and lurked cautiously just beyond the edge of the known. Yet in the end I had nothing." - H. P. Lovecraft and Robert H. Barlow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:29:38 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... In a message dated 8/16/99 11:16:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: << Apparently, the Kansas Board of Educators has decided that Evolution is not such a good thing after all. According to my man in place >The BOE did not decide to disallow the teaching of evolution in Kansas >classrooms. What they decided was to omit from state standards and from >state standards examinations any menion of evolution, especially evolution >of one species into another (although evolution within a species is >apparently all right by them). Instead of imposing state-level standards, >they have put the issue into the hands of local school boards to decide on >science curricula. As is always true in such instances, this is being done >in the name of fairness, democracy, and all that. >> The decision to leave it up to the locals is realpolitik at it's best. If you mandate it from the State level, you will duke it out at the state capitol. But if the matter is left to the locals, the decision will have to be contested again and again and again with local school boards. I predict an entire generation of Kansans with parenthetical INT scores. The most interesting development (IMHO) is relegating evolutionary theory to just another belief system. No more or less valid than any other belief system. A common Merkin meme is "everyone's got an opinion". However, this sage observation never differentiates between an uninformed and a qualified opinion. One man, one vote. One of the first compromises in the evolution/creationism conflict was mandating equal time for the creationist cosmology when teaching evolution as a concept in biology. Also when discussing geology (hehe, the age of rocks vs the Rock of Ages. Hooo aah). In California, what resulted was classes (and textbooks) that taught a Darwinian overview, mentioning those English moths as the only RW example, followed by an in depth discussion of Genesis utilizing much tap-dancing when it came time to get specific about just how much time elapsed. Both were to be given equal weight, and the teachers were monitored. Although the stated purpose was to be properly separate church/state-wise and agnostic in a PC way, the end result was to lower evolution to the status of a belief (rather than a theory based on observation) and elevate Genesis to the level of a valid (as valid as any other opinion, and everyone's got one) interpretation of events. It got especially amusing when the creationist forces would cite other, non-Darwinian theories (and there are some intriguing ones) of evolution to give the impression that science was in disarray. The science factions proposed giving equal time to Norse, Greek/Roman, Hindu etc. creation stories to put creationism in the proper perspective. The creationism forces said that spending classroom time discussing a world on a turtle's back supported by elephants was just silly. Science responded by stating that in their opinion (and everybody has one) the turtle story was as valid as a bearded Alpha Male Infinity Level Magic User. Anyone who reads Chick comics knows that God is really a BIG guy in robes on a throne in the clouds with (apparently) a lightbulb for a head. ObDG: Although the evolution/creationism maneuverings could generate a few decent one shots (evolutionist trots out the Necronomicon as just another creationist myth, and reads spells aloud in class or some such), I think the real meat of the subject is how, with a little spin on the memes via legislation and editorial comment, consensus reality gets warped. And as a harbinger of the Endtimes: how can a rational science-oriented student respect academics (or academic institutions) that make evolution and creationism officially equally valid? And how open-minded will a devout Christian remain when his (symbolic but sacred) beliefs are portrayed as equivalent to the ramblings of a tribal shaman? And how much confidence can anyone have in a political/social system that produces these conundrums again and again and again? Mark McFadden Who created the world? Uh, Keyser Soza? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:04:25 -0500 From: "Philip C. Robinson" Subject: DG: NecronomiCon 99 Greetings! As some of you may know, the 4th Edition of NecronomiCon is taking place in Providence RI From August 20 - 22 [This Friday Through Sunday]. http://ww2.necropress.com/necronomicon/ If anyone who frequents these lists will be in attendance, drop in and Say 'HI' to me, as I'll be running a Mythos CCG Demo [11am - 1pm] & Tourney [2:30pm to 6ish] on Saturday Aug 21 If you actually participate in the Demo/Tourney you'll be eligible to win wonderful door prizes, in addition to the typical demo handout goodies.... Hope to see folks there! [please don't send the MIB if you got this multiple times....It's those darn shans, I promise it'll never happen again] Philip C. Robinson bedlam@inzenity.org Visit the Lair of the Mythos Haiku http://www.inzenity.com/mythku/ Co-Creator of 'Cthulhu, Where Are You: The Scooby Doo Mythos CCG Expansion Set' http://www.inzenity.com/sdmythos/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:12:34 -0400 From: Greg Muir Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green Eyes 1 Where is Countdown available? I seem to remember something about "limited edition." Not being able to find it on Amazon kind of confirms that suspicion. PaganArt@aol.com wrote: > > Phil screamed: > > <>> > > Right now, its on the docket for an October release date, but we're > considering options out here right now. How many people would be interested > in a hard cover edition of DG? How much more would you be willing to pay for > something like that, if at all? With John Tynes' DG novel in limited > edition, we have all been wowed by the ease of hard cover. Anyway, if no one > is interested, we will do a soft cover 3rd reprint just the same. > > -Dennis Detwiller > Who just got through loading 96 cartons of DG: COUNTDOWN into the Pagan > garage, and no longer loves the book like he once did. > Pagan Publishing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:12:34 EDT From: Olaughing@aol.com Subject: DG: Loompaland... Does it occur to anyone else on this list that the Tcho-Tchos are the little bastards that are working in Willie Wonka's factory? What are they doing to those candies? More importantly, is it possible to send these guys back to "Loompaland"? John Goodrich Delta Green Friendly and Roal Dahl reader... probably completely insane. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:28:15 -0500 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green Eyes 1 >Where is Countdown available? I seem to remember something about >"limited edition." Not being able to find it on Amazon kind of confirms >that suspicion. It's available everywhere; the limited editions were the novel and the short-story anthology. It's not up on Amazon yet because the Paganites have been too busy with GenCon and hard liquor to get it set up there. You should be able to find it or order it from gaming shops in the U.S. and U.K. be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:26:29 +0400 From: yanasikt@superonline.com (Tolga Yanasik) Subject: DG: LIVE from Istanbul At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for 45 seconds and felt like it never going to end. Whatever we practiced in our games do not come close to the real feeling and today i learned not to discuss against sanity rules. My home is intact and I'm living and thanking God for it while trying not to think about the people who are still living under the debris. In every 15 or so minutes I feel the lateral tremours. Fuck the Chtonians. Tolga Yanasik ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:12:26 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Tolga Yanasik schrieb: > At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for 45 > seconds and felt like it never going to end. > > Whatever we practiced in our games do not come close to the real feeling > and today i learned not to discuss against sanity rules. > > My home is intact and I'm living and thanking God for it while trying > not to think about the people who are still living under the debris. > > In every 15 or so minutes I feel the lateral tremours. > > Fuck the Chtonians. > > Tolga Yanasik > Oh, boy. I've just heard about the bloody mess on TV. I'm glad you're allright. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:19:55 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul In a message dated 8/16/99 10:28:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, yanasikt@superonline.com writes: << At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for 45 seconds and felt like it never going to end. >> It's a meditation on relativity, isn't it? 45 seconds isn't long to hold your breath, but 45 seconds worth of EVERYTHING shaking seems like forever. Watch for post-traumatic stress. In about a week it'll occur to you that you are living under the sword of Damocles. Standing on the ground is sort of fundamental; it's a given. Earthquakes make you reevaluate your assumptions. Soon you'll know more about tectonics than you ever cared to know. I've been living in the shadow of The Big One for most of my life. For what it's worth, here's how I get by: a) Prepare. Plan for it happening again. Stock up. Make a kit. Break it down into anticipated problems rather than an all-encompassing disaster. b) Consider volunteerism. They'll teach you first aid and CPR and such, and you'll be in the loop. If/When the hammer comes down next time, you'll know people with a radio and contacts with the authorities. c) Embrace the uncertainty. Every day is an adventure now. It can turn into a summer blockbuster without any warning. Let it keep you charged-up rather than give you an ulcer. I'll have to compare notes with Super Dave when he's back online to see how Japan deals with it. I've been through a couple of earthquakes, and I've been on the fringes of tornadoes and hurricanes and blizzards. There is one good thing about earthquakes: when you're waiting in the Red Cross line for a donut, odds are you'll be dry. ObDG: a lot of scenarios take place during disasters of one kind or another. I've personally experienced earthquakes and a forest fire (Boy Scouts! Ooooraaahh!), but I depend on books and movies for details about tornadoes and such. Has anyone else seen the Elephant? Mark McFadden During the Northridge quake, my dogs were as surprised as I was. So much for the early warning system. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 1999 13:52:41 BST From: "Jacob Busby Bsc." Subject: DG: Alternate games (Puppetland) To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: Alternate games (Puppetland) > "Puppetland" and "Power Kill", games (or meta-games) written by John Tynes. > Published by Hogshead Publishing in a single book. Puppetland was also available in British gaming magazine "Arcane" prior to it going defunct. It's an inventive idea, OK for the odd one-off, though I'm not sure I could stomach a whole campaign of it. Hogshead Publishing is probably better known for republishing the acclaimed "Enemy Within" campaign. If you ever want a break from DG and want to try a really good low-fantasy campaign I highly recommend it. Whilst we're on the subject of alternate games I've recently heard T$R are planning on launching their own contemporary/near future paranormal game called Dark Matter. Anybody out there know anything more about it? _________ I think that I shall never see /__ __/ /__ a billboard lovely as a tree. __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ Ogden Nash, Song of the open road ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 1999 14:01:48 BST From: "Jacob Busby Bsc." Subject: DG: Saints alive To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: Saints alive > Unsurprisingly, the Church does weed out a few saints from the calendar > once in a while, often keeping a low profile. > Considering the last few clean-ups of the calendar, one might be justified > thinking about 70% of the medieval saints are at least dubious. According to Stephen Pile's "Book of Heroic Failures", a funny, if occasionally factually questionable read, the least successful saint was St. Jude, whose was often mistaken for Judas Iscariot. He therefore didn't receive much in the way of supplication as most Christians would feel a little uncomfortable praying to the betrayor of Christ. _________ I think that I shall never see /__ __/ /__ a billboard lovely as a tree. __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ Ogden Nash, Song of the open road ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:21:12 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Jeez, Tolga, I think we're all glad you're o.k. I heard on NPR this morning that the quake was "upgraded" to a 7.8, the size of the Loma Prieta event, and my Califonian hackles rose in sympathy. Keep safe, amigo, and I'm off to the ICRC web site to donate. Jeff Tolga Yanasik wrote: > > At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:38:53 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... Davide wrote: >Apparently, the Kansas Board of Educators has decided that Evolution is not >such a good thing after all. [SNIPPAGE] Predictably, this got my attention. It is an unfortunate (but logical) progression from the recent US trend to have big stickers on the front of biology textbooks (yes, even in the med school bookshop) saying something to the effect of "Evolution is one theory of how species arose, and cannot be proven in a laboratory". Interesting. I wonder if the God Squad realise that the same caveats also apply to creationism, only more so. [Note: I DO beleive in evolution. I've detected it after a fashion (as genetic changes) in viruses in the lab... must get on with writing that paper. Sigh.] As to the significance of it... well. Look at it like this. There are about 53 people on my floor in the institute (yes, in America). Most of them are non-Americans (10 faculty: 3 americans; 20 postdocs: 0 American; 15 graduate students: 5 American; 8 technicians: 4 american) which means that something like two thirds of the staff are immigrant workers (mostly Chinese and Polish, but a few Brits such as myself). This is actually trypical for scientific institutes and universities in the US. The question is why? There are several answers (low pay, long hours, the ridulously drawn out US PhD. process), but a contributory factor must be how science is taught in high schools. In the long run, I suspect that any ban on teaching evolution will cause a dumbing-down phenomenon for students who want to go to college (assuming that they don't actually believe in the biblical creationism concept [which isn't impossible, but much more scary]) who will have to take booster classes to bring them up to speed on things they should have learnt in high school. Given the limited teaching time available in the first place, this is bound to have a knock on effect on biological research in the US. Expect more scientists to be recruited from overseas (plus their families) to fill more US jobs that could be done by US citizens if they were correctly trained. DG Relevance... well, none actually. But I had to blow off some steam on that one. I guess that this is just a reoccurence of an old theme, though. Anyone remember the Scopes' Monkey Trial? Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:32:59 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > I've been living in the shadow of The Big One for most of my life. Amen, Brother Saurian. I can't get used to people *not* having every bookcase fixed to the wall here on the right coast. > I'll have to compare notes with Super Dave when he's back online to see how > Japan deals with it. Surprisingly badly to judge from the Kobe event, despite the fact that the Japanese drill for disasters. What went wrong was paralysis at the administrative level. US search dog teams found that they could get neither assignments nor authorization from Japanese officials. Some Kobe residents dropped habitual _gamen_ to criticize the disorderly and inefficient distribution of emergency supplies by municipal and national agencies. As you say, let's hear from Dave when he gets back, but before Kobe my $ would have been on the Japanese for disaster preparedness. Now it'd be on California post Loma Prieta, Oakland fire, LA riots, Northridge. Indeed, I'm thinking of spending New Year's eve there. . . Jeff --never been near a tornado, hopes never to be. ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #36 *******************************