From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #37 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Tuesday, August 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 037 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:35:30 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Saints alive Excepting the personal devotion of Charles V, my vote would have been for Isidore the Farm Servant. Jeff "Jacob Busby Bsc." wrote: > the least successful saint was St. Jude, whose was > often mistaken for Judas Iscariot. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:08:11 +0100 From: Fintan Palmer Subject: RE: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Hi, >-----Original Message----- >From: LizardRoi@aol.com [mailto:LizardRoi@aol.com] >Sent: 17 August 1999 8:20 am >To: deltagreen@nocturne.org >Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul > [snipped] > >ObDG: a lot of scenarios take place during disasters of one >kind or another. >I've personally experienced earthquakes and a forest fire (Boy Scouts! >Ooooraaahh!), but I depend on books and movies for details >about tornadoes >and such. Has anyone else seen the Elephant? > >Mark McFadden I haven't myself (Ireland isn't reknowned for traumatic *natural* disasters) but I spent about 8 months in Mexico City last year and dated a girl who'd lived through the '85 earthquake. Her sister was killed in the earthquake (she was a doctor in one of the hospitals that collapsed) and although most of it did go over her head at the time because she was quite young, the emotional scars showed up as she got older. The thing that struck me the most from what she told me about the earthquake was how huge sections of the city were completely cut off for days. The government couldn't cope and in the end most of the relief effort was driven by student volunteers. Fintan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:20:43 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... > DG Relevance... well, none actually. But I had to blow off some steam on > that one. I guess that this is just a reoccurence of an old theme, though. > Anyone remember the Scopes' Monkey Trial? > At the risk of causing a flame war I do not intend to cause, I suppose I might as well chime in on this one. I'll say right up front that I side, in general, with the creationists on this particular argument, not only because I am one but also because I've seen some honestly plausible creation theories. Putting aside the more rabid proponents of either theory who would immediately discount the "opposing" theory without discussion or debate, I can safely say that there's scientific evidence on both sides. I've done the research and the reading and the checking of sources, and it's there. There may be more evidence on the evolution side, but it's there for both, so we still have something of a competition. For my part, and that of most reasonable creationists, we have two working theories - one that also happens to fit nicely into my religious belief system and one that doesn't. I don't believe, however, that only my belief or theory should be the one taught in schools, thus I believe that creation and evolution (and their sub-theories, and spin-off theories, etc) be given equal purchase in schools. Just introduce the theories, the scientific evidence behind each one, and let it go at that. My main problem with the "creation v evolution" debate has been that the most strident voices are the ones getting the most press. As a reasonable person, and a creationist, I find it highly insulting that someone would discount a perfectly good theory just because it involves a religious belief. Then again, I can understand someone wondering how, exactly, you prove that the universe was created by a supreme being. the simple answer is that you can't, conclusively, any more than you can prove that evolution is the undisputed truth either. All you have on either side is evidence of the event or events, and you go on from there. So, let me bring this around to some DG relevance. How is it that any group can take a scientific theory, no matter how slender, trash it completely on a non-scientific basis, and have that particular attack not only stand as the prevailing public opinion, but flourish? It would seem to me that this has been a fairly common tactic of MJ-12 in their work with the Greys (and especially against groups like SaucerWatch). To use this discussion as an example, if you were to hear that someone was a creationist, what is the first image you would have of them in your mind? Would it be that of a reasonable person who has done some scientific research into the subject or that of a raving fundamental Baptist? I bet that your first image was the raving Baptist image. In fact, I can bet that a lot of you started to get your hackles up the instant I mentioned that I was a creationist. That's an interesting response, especially considering that I wasn't picking a fight on the subject. So where does this reaction begin and how does it become so ingrained in us? I bet Dg could make use of that mechanism, it they could only find out what it was. - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:19:42 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Greetings. First and foremost - Tolga, I'm happy you got out of that thing alive and with your home standing. 6.8 is no joke. This said, let's turn to Mark's post >ObDG: a lot of scenarios take place during disasters of one kind or another. >I've personally experienced earthquakes and a forest fire (Boy Scouts! >Ooooraaahh!), but I depend on books and movies for details about tornadoes >and such. Has anyone else seen the Elephant? OK, this could well be the start of the Delta Green Survivors Club. Count me in for - one tornado - but I was really small, and it only skirted our neighborhood - three earthquakes - nothing really serious (Richter 2 to 4) - one flood (the one that devastated southern Piedmont in 1994)- the raging waters stopped at about 10 meters from our country home and I swear I felt like Charlton Heston (no, I was not packing a gun) - one rockslide, or to be geologically more precise, a solid-state mass movement - a large chunk of hillside (carrying a portion of lawn and a tree) decided to chase me downhill. No, it was not a DYoSN, it was a rockslide. - uncounted minor rockfalls and soil creeps - the basic hazard of geological fieldwork in Italy (apart from farmers with shotguns and alcoholism) Nice track record, in retrospect. Any others to join the club? I might as well put together a logo.... Oh, yes, one more thing.... > During the Northridge quake, my dogs were as surprised as I was. So much for >the early warning system. My cats never failed to predict an earthquake - a pity we only realized it after the event. But yes, animal behaviour works in an unreliable way. End of post. Take care. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:25:47 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Saints alive Greetings. Jacob wrote >According to Stephen Pile's "Book of Heroic Failures", a funny, if occasionally >factually questionable read, the least successful saint was St. Jude, whose was >often mistaken for Judas Iscariot. He therefore didn't receive much in the way >of supplication as most Christians would feel a little uncomfortable praying to >the betrayor of Christ. This is certainly true in Italy, where the simple idea of a St.Jude is considered ridiculous (nice way to make a few easy bucks with bets). On the other hand, as Patron Saint of Desperate Causes, I always considered St.Jude the protector saint of Delta Green (aka "St. Jude College" to St. Jerome operatives). Cheers! Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:43:47 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Greetings again. I know, I know.... throw a geologist a rock and all that stuff. Anyway, the Kobe event reared its ugly head in Jeff's post. While we wait for SuperDave to put us straight, let me point out a few basic facts. >> I'll have to compare notes with Super Dave when he's back online to see how >> Japan deals with it. > >Surprisingly badly to judge from the Kobe event, despite the fact that >the Japanese drill for disasters. The Kobe event took everybody by surprise, the degree of destruction being incredibly higher than predicted, and the emergency guys were caught with their pants around their ankles. How comes? Simple - what nobody had predicted (even if it was a known theoretical possibility) was the fact that the seismic shock would cause the iron and concrete (ferro-concrete) antiseismic structures to resonate simpathetically, and consequently _detonate_. If you run through the views of Kobe that CNN passed, you'll notice that concrete structures crumbled completely, concrete columns turning into heaps of small, elongated fragments. Also, you'll notice a lot of modern buildings that "seated themselves", collapsing in a deflation-style pattern. This was caused by the leading concrete columns crumbling. Unsurprisingly, in retrospect, the older buildings fared better, because they did not rely on the "iron frame in concrete envelope" of modern ferro-concrete. It was bad, and it was a pretty chanchey thing. So, yes, the Japanese goofed when it came to relief plans, but they cannot be blamed that much. So my money is pretty much on the Rising Sun team still. Oh, and by the way - any ferro-concrete structure might react that way, anywhere in the globe, under the right frequency stimulation. Or any other rigid material. That's why marching infantrymen are made to break their beat when crossing bridges - their tempo might be the one that hits the right chord in the structure. End of rant. Sorry for this junk. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:08:24 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul > >ObDG: a lot of scenarios take place during disasters of one > >kind or another. > >I've personally experienced earthquakes and a forest fire (Boy Scouts! > >Ooooraaahh!), but I depend on books and movies for details > >about tornadoes > >and such. Has anyone else seen the Elephant? > > I've had a couple very close brushes with natural disasters, but nothing of the scale of what's happening in Turkey right now. I went through Hurricane Agnes in the 1970's when I was a wee babe. It came right up the Chesapeake bay and did its dead level best to wreak havoc. I've had a couple close calls with tornadoes, but was very lucky. Neither touched down until the storm moved farther north. The last tornado story was probably the most frightening (and, mind you, I'm a tornado nut. I still think the best job on the planet would be to be a storm chaser). I was driving 30 MPH in a rainstorm so violent that I had to drive smack in the middle of my lanes of the highway because I couldn't clearly make out lane markings or, in some places, the edge of the road itself. I caught a glimpse of a funnel cloud moving on an intercept course, sped up to a fairly reckless speed of almost 50 MPH, then saw that I couldn't outrun the thing. I took some time to move my car over toward the shoulder of the road, and when I looked back out the side window, I couldn't see the funnel anymore. This was when the real scary part happened for me. I kept on driving, fully expecting it to touch down right in front of me, but it never did. Apparently, it passed overhead and touched down a couple miles north of where I met it. Okay, so I wasn't involved in wreckage, but it scared the bejeezus out of me nontheless. I also spent a night fully expecting a Washington DC Drug Crew to raid the police station where I was working to try to get back a vanload of marijuana. It was interesting to hear my Duty Officer tell me (and, by the way, I'm not an officer, but a civilian dispatcher) that if anything happened, I was to grab the loaded shotgun, follow him outside, and shoot anything that wasn't wearing a uniform. It might not have been scary, but it was definitely nerve-wracking. - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:09:42 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul really serious (Richter 2 to 4) > - one flood (the one that devastated southern Piedmont in 1994)- the > raging waters stopped at about 10 meters from our country home and I swear > I felt like Charlton Heston (no, I was not packing a gun) Was that Heston as Moses or as The Omega Man? - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:06:59 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... Greetings. Oh my oh my, that I would live to the day I'd meet a reasonable creationist.... ;> Jokes apart, now... First - no sense in flaming, so I won't. Second - I'm in the opposite field. Evolutionary theory - which is much more complex than your basic Darwin, incidentally - is a consistent part of my academical curriculum, is one of the essential points in what will be (hopefully) my future work, and has a noteworthy relevance to my general mindset (inevitably, someone might say). I've personally yet to find a convincing and "airtight" creationist theory covering all the bases as simply and thoroughly as the theory of evolution - - therefore, Jacob, if you can suggest some good books or artricles on the subject, please let me know off list and I'll try and track them (I still read palaeontology for pleasure, so it won't be a sacrifice). This said, I must agree with the following >So, let me bring this around to some DG relevance. How is it that any group can take >a scientific theory, no matter how slender, trash it completely on a non-scientific >basis, and have that particular attack not only stand as the prevailing public >opinion, but flourish? It would seem to me that this has been a fairly common >tactic of MJ-12 in their work with the Greys (and especially against groups like >SaucerWatch). There's a wonderful little booklet by Schopenhauer (I mispelled him, I know), called "The Art of Appearing Right in 48 Stratagems", or something to that effect. Pointing out fanatical or unreasonable attitudes in the faction supporting your adversary's theory, or connecting said theory (or the people supporting it) with a notoriously disgraced or unacceptable worldview, is one of the basic tricks in rethorics. Used with a grain of salt, it can delegitimize whole universal Systems. > In fact, I can bet that a lot of you started to get your >hackles up the instant I mentioned that I was a creationist. That's an interesting >response, especially considering that I wasn't picking a fight on the subject. So >where does this reaction begin and how does it become so ingrained in us? We tend to regard what we firmly believe in, or what we know as abvious. And we're pretty irritated by people cintradicting the obvious. It's the breeding ground of intollerance. That's why I'm still all out for the scientific method - as long as you appreciate the possibility of doubt, you won't give in to intollerance. [and you can always pay someone to break creationists' windows in the night] Here I stop. I posted the Kansas thing in the first place. In order not to fuel any off topic discussion (or worse, flame war), I will not post on the subject again. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:15:19 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... Ouch! [note to self: always check replies before sending] I just noticed that I attributed Jimmie's post to Jacob - it's the old age creeping on me. Sorry, to Jimmie for attributing his ideas to someone else. And to Jacob, for mistaking him for a creationist ;> Take care, gentlemen. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:15:12 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Davide Mana wrote: > > OK, this could well be the start of the Delta Green Survivors Club. > > Any others to join the club? > I might as well put together a logo.... Jeff: Sylmar quake in late 70's, numerous floods (Dad lives in San Fernando Valley, right near the flood control area; you do *not* want to drive on Burbank Blvd. W. of Sepulveda in heavy rain (this is also the epicenter of Northridge, but I wasn't there)), numerous brushfires, numerous mudslides, one forest fire, minor volcanic eruption (Mt. St. Helens, but not the big one), several hurricanes, Loma Prieta, Oakland firestorm, Rodney King disturbances North. The mudslides and brushfires are, of course, part and parcel of living in LA, and so may not even count as disasters. Mark: have you read _Ecology of Fear_? You may have been in a tornado and not known it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:22:11 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... "Jimmie Bise, Jr." wrote: > To use this discussion as an example, if you were to hear that someone > was a creationist, what is the first image you would have of them in your mind? > Would it be that of a reasonable person who has done some scientific research into > the subject or that of a raving fundamental Baptist? I bet that your first image was > the raving Baptist image. Actually: Quiet but extremely stubborn Korean Baptist, whom I would definitely say had a bracketed INT score and confused but nice Jehovah's Witness whom I later convinced to do some things that would have got her excommunicated. . . Organ of Global Capitalism The New York Times recently summed it up pretty well: Could you convince a scientist that evolution was wrong, given enough evidence? Sure. Could you convince a creationist the same way? They would not then be a creationist, so no. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:24:59 -0400 From: becole@juno.com Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:38:53 -0400 graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) writes: > >Anyone remember the Scopes' Monkey Trial? Recently, a new wave of interest has sparked concerning the Dayton,TN based Scopes Monkey Trial. As it turns out (poor summarization job follows) there were actually petitions submitted across the country for people to try and go against the precedent of Creationism (apparently, at the time of the trial this was a legally punishable offense). A teacher in Dayton volunteered to "break the trend" and viola, instant national publicity. There is an article in the..Knoxville News Sentinel (a Scripps-Howard paper, accessible on-line) concerning the maneuvering that was done, and it reveals some detail concerning the background of the groups involved. As far as Creationism vs Evolution...well, generally speaking we were created (whether by a sentient entity, a fluke chemical reaction, or something else is up to the individual / scientific community to prove / theorize) and then we evolved (Java-Peking-"Lucy", etcetera). obDG: Reverend 'X' has recently denounced his entire Baptist service. He caught national attention and was on a popular talk-show professing that he had definitive, un-deniable proof that man was created. The national buzz alone threatens to swamp the airwaves and the Internet. Reverend 'X''s real credibility comes from his PhD in Anthropology, and the expedition he took to the South Pole to investigate an area reported by an expedition during the 1930's (launched by Miskatonic U). Reverend 'X' claims to have a slab of material (as of yet, unidentified although the dating shows it came from 'Way the Hell Back in Earth's History') he brought back from a dig with engraving that depicts an experiment whose end result was Homo-Erectus (or Neanderthal Man, whichever I didn't screw up). The only problem is that Reverend 'X's appearances on radio and talk shows keep getting pre-empted, either by odd accidents, or technical troubles. Also, several "unscheduled" flights have been leaving Air Force Bases and heading to the Antarctic continent. As if that wasn't enough, underground reports are surfacing that NRO has been ordered by MJ-12 to "apprehend and detain" Reverend 'X' . Sources in MJ-12 say that the Greys want Reverend 'X' out of the picture (and into their hands). The enemy of our enemy is our friend. ( I will confess that I just wanted to write an e-mail with the words "Erect", "monkey", and "Antarctica" in it) -B ( Not 2B) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:31:33 +0900 (JST) From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul >At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for 45 >seconds and felt like it never going to end. Buddy, try living in Japan. It's like building your house on jello. >Fuck the Chtonians. Amen there, brother. Jay - ------------------------------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ - ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:34:06 +0900 (JST) From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) Subject: DG: Whoops. >At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for 45 >seconds and felt like it never going to end. I just sent a message and just realized that I had screwed on translating the magnitude (I can never remember how they're supposed to go and we use a different system here in Japan). My previous post was a bit lighthearted. I do apologize and in no way intend any disrespect for the dead and injured. Feeling considerably like a horses ass, Jay - ------------------------------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ - ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:45:48 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: CIA and UFO's Just came across this bit of disinformation by the CIA's offcial historian http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html Rather interesting from our peculiar perspective. Do, please, take a look at it. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:38:40 +0900 (JST) From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... >>Apparently, the Kansas Board of Educators has decided that Evolution is not >>such a good thing after all. [SNIPPAGE] This whole thing depressed the hell out of me. I'm from Missouri, and it may amuse folks to know that I was given the nickname Rock Baby in Junior High School because I thought, on a whole, the theory of evolution was the best one out there. My classmates thought I was nuts. Jay - ------------------------------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ - ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:39:17 GMT From: "Jay Dugger" Subject: DG: From Slashdot, CIA's X-Files Tuesday, 17 August 1999 Today's slashdot.org has this link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000137243025351&rtmo=qsKubRe9&atmo=99999999&pg=/et/99/8/17/wufo17.html The link's target describes a report written by Gerald K Haines, the official CIA historian. That report supposedly details the history of CIA investigation into UFOs and related-phenomena. Britain's "Intelligence and National Security" journal's summer issue contains a copy of the report. (Hint hint, GP.) For game use, this document lends itself as an example of disinformation. Similar tactics probably see use today w/rt Britain, EBEs, etc. Alternatively, it could provide fodder for a historical campaign. Imagine being a CIA-man of the 1950s. What's this little green sticker on your personnel file? Why did No Such Agency spooks seize your notes? What's "MAJESTIC" clearance anyway? Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel I escaped Hawaii before the hurricane hit! Of course, Missouri's not much of an improvement. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:54:38 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... > Sorry, to Jimmie for attributing his ideas to someone else. > And to Jacob, for mistaking him for a creationist ;> No harm, no foul on my end. I understand the ravages of old age all too well. :-0 - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:49:15 -0500 From: "Benada, Rob" Subject: RE: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... becole did write: > obDG: Reverend 'X''s real credibility comes from his PhD in > Anthropology, and > the expedition he took to the South Pole to investigate an area reported > by an expedition during the 1930's (launched by Miskatonic U). Reverend > 'X' claims to have a slab of material (as of yet, unidentified although > the dating shows it came from 'Way the Hell Back in Earth's History') he > brought back from a dig with engraving that depicts an experiment whose > end result was Homo-Erectus (or Neanderthal Man, whichever I didn't screw > up). > Insert a personal journal from the 1933 expedition that he had "Found" and you could use it as a simulation "flash back" to the new "Mountains of Madness" Phonebook...er... Campaign. Or maybe just the explorations of the Mountains directly. Just a thought. Snorkey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:57:49 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Whoops. What system do you use in Japan??? I remember the old richter scale they phased out in the '70s. Is that it? Phil On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:34:06 +0900 (JST) ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) writes: >>At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for >45 >>seconds and felt like it never going to end. > >I just sent a message and just realized that I had screwed on >translating >the magnitude (I can never remember how they're supposed to go and we >use a >different system here in Japan). My previous post was a bit >lighthearted. I >do apologize and in no way intend any disrespect for the dead and >injured. > >Feeling considerably like a horses ass, >Jay >------------------------------------------ >There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." > >Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ >------------------------------------------ > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:55:50 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul Greetings from California, home of the Cthonian Soccer team. Glad you endured unscathed. By the way, watch out for those nasty aftershocks for the next few days. They can hit up to the mid 5s after a biggie. Phil Posehn On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:31:33 +0900 (JST) ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) writes: >>At 3:00am this morning a 6.8 mag. quake hit Istanbul. It lasted for >45 >>seconds and felt like it never going to end. > >Buddy, try living in Japan. It's like building your house on jello. > >>Fuck the Chtonians. > >Amen there, brother. > >Jay >------------------------------------------ >There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." > >Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ >------------------------------------------ > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:08:35 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: We're not in Kansas anymore.... In fairness to the government of Kansas I would like to mention that the Legislature is scurrying to strip their school board of its draconian power as quickly as possible. Seems they're a law unto themselves. That being said, I have always believed that equal time for EVERY faith usually shuts 'em up real fast. I used to advocate equal time for Voudoun when ever the prayer in schools thing came up. (Text of note from teacher) Dear mrs Johnson, I am sending little Carol home early today. The class had a ceremony evoking Papa Legbe in class this morning under the new State guiglines covering prayer in school mandating equal time for all faiths. Your daughter seems to have a real affinity for nature deities. She really got into the (ahem) spirit of the whole thing. Don't worry. The blood is only chicken blood. I do hope she will be able to participate in the Beltane fertility ritual. She seems to be looking forward to it. Yours, Mrs. Kleinfeld ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 02:27:39 +0900 (JST) From: ft203004@fsinet.or.jp (Jay and Mikiko ) Subject: Re: DG: Whoops. >What system do you use in Japan??? I remember the old richter scale they >phased out in the '70s. Is that it? To be honest, I don't know; I only know that its different. Dave, care to kick in on this one? Jay - ------------------------------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Dave Barry, _Twenty-five Things I have Learned in Fifty Years_ - ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:26:08 -0700 From: Bryant Durrell Subject: Re: DG: Alternate games (Puppetland) On Tue, Aug 17, 1999 at 01:52:41PM +0100, Jacob Busby Bsc. wrote: > Whilst we're on the subject of alternate games I've recently heard T$R are > planning on launching their own contemporary/near future paranormal game > called Dark Matter. Anybody out there know anything more about it? Most likely an Alternity setting. - -- Bryant Durrell [] durrell@innocence.com [] http://www.innocence.com/~durrell [----------------------------------------------------------------------------] "Dave, this is your second warning. Turn off the MIME in your mailer or I'll threaten you." -- Greg Morrow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:32:41 -0500 From: Joseph Camp Subject: DG: Scotland's Secret Bunker Perhaps this could be used for agents on the run from the U.K.: http://www.secretbunker.co.uk/ be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:43:16 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Whoops. Greetings. Jay wrote.... >>What system do you use in Japan??? I remember the old richter scale they >>phased out in the '70s. Is that it? > > To be honest, I don't know; I only know that its different. Dave, >care to kick in on this one? AFAIK, the only different scale the Japanese use is the Hirayoshi - a pentatonic scale close to the one used in Irish folk music. [sorry, I could not resist] Seriously now.... Earthquake intensity is generally measured in two scales, Mercalli (that fell from general use in the '70s) and Richter. The Mercalli scale (published 1897) determines the intensity of the event on the basis of the damage to artefacts and effects on people. Ranging from I (no damage) to XII (the totality of artefacts is seriously damaged), this scale was dropped as it's too dependent on the location of the event (a hell of a quake in the desert is still just a Mercalli I) and not quantitative enough. The Richter Scale was dreamed up by Richter in 1935 (published in 1949) and refined by Kasahara in 1981 (this elaboration might be the one the Japanese use), it's a strictly quantitative scale and it's logarithmic. This means that each step in the scale means a ten-fold increase in intensity. The Richter Magnitude scale has no upper limit, but so far we have failed to register a Richter 10 event. The determination of the intensity is based upon calculations of the energy released by the event - which explains why magnitude readings are divulged late after the event and often are refined through a series of updates (as the data base increases, the determination becomes more accurate). For the lovers of technicalities (and as an advance on the GREEN BOOK), here's the generic correlation between the two scales, assuming we are dealing with a western civilized landscape. Mercalli Richter Effects I <3.5 perceived by seismographs only II 3.5 perceived by sensitive subjects and in high buildings III 4.2 perceived by some without causing alarm IV 4.5 perceived by many windowpanes vibrate, floors creak, hanging objects oscillate V 4.8 wakes up sleeping people hanging objects swing, rubble falls VI 5.4 people run outside in panic heavy objects fall, thundering sounds slight damages to old buildings VII 6.1 bells in belfries ring damage to all buildings VIII 6.5 some victims some non ferroconcrete buildings collapse IX 6.9 victims many buildings collapse X 7.3 many victims all buildings damaged, many collapse the ground breaks open XI 8.1 high body count almost all buildings are destroyed wide cracks in the ground XII >8.1 many thousands of victims all human artefacts razed gaps in the earth and rockslides Kobe was Richter 6.9 San Francisco '84 was Richter 7.1 Los Angeles '94 was Richter 7.4 Whatever Tolga survived was between Richter 7 and 8 The bomb dropped on Hiroshima (just to give you a human perspective) was a Richter 4.x at ground zero - which means, just to hammer it home, more than 100 times weaker than Kobe, 10.000 times weaker than the Turkish event. And here I stop. Please tolerate this showing off of useless knowledge. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:11:49 +0400 From: yanasikt@superonline.com (Tolga Yanasik) Subject: Re[2]: DG: Whoops. > Kobe was Richter 6.9 > San Francisco '84 was Richter 7.1 > Los Angeles '94 was Richter 7.4 > Whatever Tolga survived was between Richter 7 and 8 > The bomb dropped on Hiroshima (just to give you a human perspective) was a > Richter 4.x at ground zero - which means, just to hammer it home, more than > 100 times weaker than Kobe, 10.000 times weaker than the Turkish event. Hair raising info. The epicenter of the quake was at Izmit which is ~100km. east of the center of Istanbul and me. The shockwaves passed over us and continued for 30-50 km more. There it combined with another quake origined at the west of Istanbul. It seems that the whole Northern Anatolia Fault moved. Here's what may be DG relevant; The quake and the waves razed Turkey's one of the biggest naval bases while top level commanding officers having a meeting. It killed about 300 people at this base. Also the quake set one of the biggest oil refinery on fire a dozen km away. Right now, it's left on its own awaiting the Gulf War experts. What was Turkish Navy up to that drew the wrath of the Cthonians ? Tolga Yanasik who is piling books, food and drinks for a sleepless night. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: Re: DG: LIVE from Istanbul At 11:15 AM 8/17/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >Davide Mana wrote: > >> >> OK, this could well be the start of the Delta Green Survivors Club. > >> >> Any others to join the club? >> I might as well put together a logo.... > Well, my life isn't very exciting in comparison to some others on the list. Some people mentioned blizzards - but they aren't usually something to get worked up about unless you live in Toronto (the city where 1.5 cm of snow paralyzes traffic). In *real* parts of Canada, overnight snowfalls of up to 30 cm happen at least once a winter. I did fly into Thunder Bay three years ago on the day that they received 60 cm of snow, and shrugged it off because that was a "little one" compared to the 175 cm that was dumped on the city a month earlier. Ice storms - I can't remember how many ice storms I've been through. It seemed like at least one or two a winter until I moved to Northern Ontario. Nothing really bad but usually enough to close school for a couple of days. I was on the west tail of the big one that hit Eastern Ontario and Montreal two years ago. I experience a "seismic event" of approximately Richter 1.5 to 2.0 almost every night when the development blasting occurs in the nearest mines. Big production blasts may scale up to 3.0, but they only happen occasionally. Major seismic events, such as rockbursts and true quakes, happen about twice or three times a year, but they sometimes go above 4.0 . I di experience an earthquake while living in Southern Ontario that wasn't too great (3.8 , less than some of the rockbursts) but I experienced much more building movement than I do here. The area is hundreds of feet of glacial till (gravel, rock, sand, soil) over bedrock so there's a lot of movement. To give you an idea - mines that perform major pit blasts (more than 100 tonnes of explosives) are required under one of the nuclear test ban treaties to notify monitoring agencies. Apparently, a blast like that is difficult to distinguish using a seismograph from a small, low yield tactical nuke. No forest fires - they close highways pretty quickly, and none ever occurred nearby while I was in the bush. No tornadoes or hurricanes - although I have driven through immediately afterwards. I did walk through the edges of the Toronto riots on the night, and following night, of the Rodney King verdict. On the first night, I didn't even know what was going on until I noticed how much broken glass there was. Of course, it was a very polite Toronto riot - the only rioters arrested were white and oriental. One of them had just got off the bus from the Maritimes and didn't even know what the riot was about. I did spend half an hour hanging onto the pomtoon of a float plane, but it was taxiing around the lake while I was doing this so that probably doesn't count. (Important lesson - do not jump onto pontoon if the other person roping the plane in is "slow"). ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #37 *******************************