From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #42 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, August 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 042 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:34:45 -0500 From: "Benada, Rob" Subject: DG: RE: Mountains of Madness I have my copy of the Phone book: in containment between slabs of strange blue crystalline stone; dangerously close to countdown; pressing lovingly against EO 2; contaminating Gurps: Black Ops; not more than 30 feet away. I got mine at GenCon and I seem to remember a chosium announcement that it would be "released" at GenCon. The mission patches are neat. Haven't had the time to dig into it. Yes I also got Countdown. Snork - - Snorky: Anyone for Old Maid? I've got a YS Tarot Deck? No, Solitaire it is then... > -----Original Message----- > From: Williamson Mark [SMTP:m.williamson@ace.ac.nz] > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 3:16 PM > To: 'Delta Green List' > Subject: DG: Mountains of Madness > > Hi everybody > > I've been away from the list for a few months (having moved cities and > all) > and might have missed the news but I thought Chaosium's Mountains of > Madness > hadn't shipped yet. Amazon, however, are shipping me a coipy even as we > speak. What's the story? Are Chasoium holding back the offical release to > time it with the other parts of the Mountains of Madness pack, or am I > just > out of touch - either way I'm happy a copy is coming to me. > > Here's a link to the Amazon page: > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568821387/projectfirestorm > > and the books ISBN is: > 1568821387 > > -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:10:59 -0500 From: "Russell Mirabelli" Subject: DG: Dark Theatres media question Is anyone else having trouble with their copy of _Dark_Theatres_? While I haven't started reading mine yet, I get the feeling that pages are gonna start falling out the second I try-- and this doesn't make me happy. The first page has already pulled up halfway. I don't know whether to be excited or just depressed: school starts up again tomorrow, and I'm only 100 pages into Countdown, and now I've got _Dark_Theatres_ and _The_Rules_Of_Engagement_ to contend with too. I'll never get all this reading done. :-) R - -- Russell Mirabelli | "Program testing can be used to show Macintosh Programmer | the presence of bugs but never to show Playnet | their absence." --Edsger W Dijkstra russellm@fastlane.net | http://www.fastlane.net/~russellm/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:20:47 +1200 From: Williamson Mark Subject: DG: RE: Info Request - Yidhra How about linking Vamipres and Yidhra > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian M. Sammons [SMTP:105073.2452@compuserve.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 24 August 1999 5:14 am > To: Delta Green List > Subject: DG: Info Request - Yidhra > > Hi Peter- > > >Would it be possible for someone to give me a quick run-down > >on the gaming and literary sources for the Great Old One Yidhra? > > Good call on Yidhra. I always wanted to use her/it in something, but > never > got off my lazy butt to do so. If you got ideas, please share. The only > story to mention this strange creature is Where Yidhra Walks by Walter C. > DeBill Jr. This story can be found in the classic anthology Disciples of > Cthulhu which has been revised and recently (1996) reissued by Chaosium as > one of their cycle books. Incidently, this book also contains another of > my favorite Mythos stories called Darkness, My Name Is by Eddy C. Bertin > which is the only story (that I know of) concerning the Great Old One > Cyaegha. > Sound like she/it would combine well with the vampire ideas in Peter Devlin's thread. If the vampires are all made up of a leech like tissue which slowly takes over their bodies until they are nothing but a leech sucking blood, then maybe the orginal tissue came from Yidhra. Vamipres also have the ability to grow hideous creatures from their tissue as does Yidhra. That means Yidhra would have access to the senses of all the vampires in the world and they would slowly become more like her/it. This could lead to an excellent campagin invloving the discovery of some mysterous tissue which has a mind of its own (acts like the blood sample from John Carpenter's the Thing) and leads the agents into a brood of vampires, and then to a vampire conspiracy, and then to a world ending confrontation with Yidhra. -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:30:35 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: earthquake-inducing weapon? ...And then there's the Tesla Device. Phil Posehn ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:48:23 PDT From: "REFLECTING SKIN" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Starting a Campaign suggestions. Actually although the total campaign will involve all 12 player characters, each scenario will involve a maximum of five and more than likely a group as small as three. It will be many scenarios before all of the characters have even heard of each other. thanks for the advice. I have the difficult task of running not only for very seasoned gamers (I'm lucky that most of us have been gaming for over 10 years) but also a bunch of socially maladjusted slacker devotees of Robert Anton Wilson, various occult orders and horror/gore movies... I can entertain them certainly, scaring them personally may be difficult. Their characters will be easy targets though.... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 1999 08:44:43 BST From: "Jacob Busby Bsc." Subject: DG: Man-Made natural disasters To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: Man-Made natural disasters >Final note: all of the above uses a basic current technological setting. >More Bond-style quake-primers might include focused soundwaves generators >(hit the right armonics and off the fault goes) or lasers or what. Funny you should mention Bond. The plot of "A view to a kill" involves wealthy industrialist, ex-KGB agent and psychotic bad-ass, Max Zorin, flooding one of the fault lines on or near the San Andreas fault and then detonating a major explosion at the join between two faults, causing a major earthquake and the flooding of Silicon Valley. Of course whether this is feasible in real life is another story, but the film is a good Bond romp nonetheless. _________ I think that I shall never see /__ __/ /__ a billboard lovely as a tree. __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ Ogden Nash, Song of the open road ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 05:32:23 -0700 (PDT) From: David Farnell Subject: Re: DG: earthquake-inducing weapon? > From: Davide Mana > Final note: all of the above uses a basic current > technological setting. > More Bond-style quake-primers might include focused > soundwaves generators > (hit the right armonics and off the fault goes) or > lasers or what. IIRC, the rumors I read were of a sound-wave generator. One distinctive feature was the sighting of strange lights in the sky over Kobe before the earthquake. I'll let Davide explain the nature of lights induced by rock stress, but never forget to turn to the Mythos explanation: side-effects of a Cthonian summoning or something. Oh and:> From: Williamson Mark > Subject: DG: Mountains of Madness > I've been away from the list for a few months > (having moved cities and all) > and might have missed the news but I thought > Chaosium's Mountains of Madness > hadn't shipped yet. Amazon, however, are shipping me > a coipy even as we > speak. What's the story? Welcome back, Mark. I was in my old game shop (Dragon's Lair in Austin, Texas--free plug) yesterday and they had a copy, right next to Countdown. Beyond the Mountains of Madness is even huger than Countdown (maybe it's just thicker pages, though), and would make an excellent blunt-object murder weapon. It also looks to be a very good campaign. I didn't get it because I'm already overloaded with stuff to carry back to Japan--I'll get it in my next comic book shipment. Dave "Bring me the head of Diego Garcia!" (Sorry--couldn't resist. Welcome to the List, Diego.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 1999 17:23:08 BST From: "Jacob Busby Bsc." Subject: DG: YellowSign To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: YellowSign Hey JB, here, telling you about the latest hot web-sites, and have I got a treat for you today. Point your browser at: www.yellowsign.org YellowSign markets itself as "the gatekeeper service for your needs" At the most basic of levels YellowSign is a standard search facility, much like Yahoo or AltaVista. Put in your search criteria and out pop several thousand web-pages. Whilst this services is nothing new, however YellowSign offers a vibrant new service which many web-surfers are finding highly useful - a personalised search engine which is uncannily accurate in finding the right web-page for you. The personalised service costs $4.95 to join. Users are expected to log on to a chat-room for half an hour and talk about their likes and dislikes, their daily life, family, or anything else that takes their interest. YellowSigns algorithms then analyse this data, so that when the user enters their parameters into the search engine it comes back with results more befitting to their personalities. Many users of the YellowSign search engine have discovered that the longer they stay in the YellowSign chat rooms, the more accurate the search engine becomes. "It's like... YellowSign becomes my friend and knows exactly what I want" states Henry Gaines, one of YellowSign's many fans. YellowSign puts its huge success down to word of mouth. Indeed YellowSign has a deal for its most constant users whereby they are paid five dollars a week for adding a "Yellow Sign" to their signatures. This JPEG is a small file which depicts the companies logo - a yellow squiggle. But where does the name YellowSign come from? YellowSigns CEO, who cannot be named for legal reasons, explained that the name comes from traffic lights. "A lot of search engines come back with dross, alongside the page you want to look at. We call them red signs - they stop you looking when your surfing the net. We want to be the Yellow Sign - when you use our service we want to say 'Get ready to go'" "Whilst the org at the end of our name stands for organisation, we kind of like to think of it as 'organism' because that's what YellowSign is really. It's an organism because the more you put into it the more active it becomes." Indeed paralels between YellowSigns service and a living organism have been noted in several sectors. "This is one of the largest steps forward the computer industry has ever seen," explained the Professor Watkins, head of Computer Science at Exeter University. "This is nothing short of genius, a program which can consistently pass the Turing test. If I didn't know better I'd say it was alive." The military too have also taken note of YellowSigns algorithms. A statement was recently released which read "Any program which can think like a human but work at the computational speed of a computer has got to be a serious consideration for the modern battelfield" ************************************************************************* Addenda: Since writing this e-mail I have learnt that Professor Watkins died of a stroke. He was an expert in his field and I am sure that he will be missed by many people. _________ I think that I shall never see /__ __/ /__ a billboard lovely as a tree. __/ / / . / /___/ /____/ Ogden Nash, Song of the open road ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:48:51 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: earthquake-inducing weapon? Greetings. The overburdened SuperDave wrote >IIRC, the rumors I read were of a sound-wave >generator. One distinctive feature was the sighting of >strange lights in the sky over Kobe before the >earthquake. I'll let Davide explain the nature of >lights induced by rock stress, but never forget to >turn to the Mythos explanation: side-effects of a >Cthonian summoning or something. Fredric Brown had it down pretty neat when he wrote "The Lights in the Sky are Stars". In case of earthquakes, the lights in the sky are lightnings. Both quartz (the commonest component of rocks) and clay (a close second when sedimentary rocks are concerned) can let off sparks if subjected to pressure, due to their crystal structure. That's the way piezoelectric lighters work - you press on a quarz shard and the spark lights the gas. Many rocks can, under pressure or if heated, release ions, that are basically electrically charged atoms (please, don't kick me for the oversemplification). [ion-release measurements are generally used for monitoring volcano activity] As already noted in a previous post, earthquakes are events in which pressure that was accumulated is released or, if you prefer, redistributed. One of the consequences is, the seismic event can mess-up big time the local electric field causing all sorts of things, from radio and TV sets going crazy to lights in the sky. The reason why animals get nervous could be related to the electrical field, too. [the reason, that is, not counting a score Cthonians doing their bit somewhere near the Moho discontinuity] All of which ties in neatly with Phil's coment >...And then there's the Tesla Device. Could it be possible to prime earthquakes through electrical induction? Not being a clay minerals expert (and not planning to become one), I can just offer a few shots in the dark. Clay is basically sheets of silica electrostatically bound by water molecules. It's a well known experience, that adding water to tightly packed dry clay can cause the container to explode as the clay expands. In metamorphism pressure and temperature cause the water to escape, inducing a reduction of the rock volume. What's the effect of a stiff electrical charge? Does it cause the clay to accept more water, or does it cause the water to escape? Both ways, it can induce _terrific_ volume variations. This might be used as the primer for an earthquake. Finally, Jacob pointed out the plot of Bond movie "A View to a Kill". Confession of a movie fan - I never saw a Tim Dalton Bond movie. Connery is fine, Moore is all right and Brosnan might as well get it right one of these days. But Dalton and Lazemby are out. [I did see the Lazemby flick basically because there was Diana Rigg in it] Anyway, movie fandom apart, I can just observe that causing a quake to _flood_ a location is overkill. And here I stop [hmmmm - I need more of this: whole sections of my Green Book contribution are writing themselves] Take care. Davide Mana Defrocked Geologist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:02:01 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: YellowSign Greetings. This one is for mr Busby, BSc. >Addenda: Since writing this e-mail I have learnt that Professor Watkins >died of a stroke. He was an expert in his field and I am sure that he >will be missed by many people. For a minute (up to the squiggle bit) you fooled me completely. Nice shot. Looks like we'll have to build a Multimedia and Net-Related wing in Containment. Be seeing You. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:04:56 +0300 From: yanasikt@superonline.com (Tolga Yanasik) Subject: Re[2]: DG: earthquake-inducing weapon? > IIRC, the rumors I read were of a sound-wave > generator. One distinctive feature was the sighting of > strange lights in the sky over Kobe before the > earthquake. I'll let Davide explain the nature of > lights induced by rock stress, but never forget to > turn to the Mythos explanation: side-effects of a > Cthonian summoning or something. This are also rumoured to happen here. People saw a flash, heard the sound of a blast coming from the sea. I'm not an expert but when a material gives out energy, it gives it out as plastic and elastic deformation, heat and light. This may be the cause of the light or the flash people claimed to see. The North Anatolian fault ruptured about 20 km. and some of this was under the sea. It caused tsunami waves that collapsed a whole coastal town . I believe this was the cause of the blast sound. Tolga ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:20:21 -0500 (CDT) From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com Subject: DG: Organization vs releving in freedom After a couple weeks vacation, I'm back. Included was a trip to the Monterey Bay Aquarium, which had a special deep water exhibit. This included a display of luminescent jellyfish and other oddities. I also petted a variety of marine creatues, including a sea cucumber, which was particularly disconcerting for me, as they look particularly alien, and feel very strange. No SAN loss though. Apparently Monterey is at the edge of a very deep and dramatic sudden drop to the ocean depths. I saw no one with the Innsmouth look though, so maybe things are not as dire as they might seem. Anyway, here is the spoiler. FOR KEEPERS' EYES ONLY F O R K E E P E R S ' E Y E S E T C Due to the coverage of the Shib Niggurath cult in the utterly excellent and superb and extremely well worth the money Countdown, I've been thinking about cult organization again, and how a bunch of sociopaths who revel in freedom and killing can be a well oiled machine that acts in an orderly and even discrete manner over a prolonged period of time. This is important to me as a keeper, and as a person who likes an internally consistant and believable story. It seems that there is an inherent contradition between being able to maintain secrecy, avoid suspicion by the average competent cop, work as a unit, and at the same time be impulsive, wild, free, murderous, etc, etc. I have come up with a few possible ways to see the SN cult, but all have problems. I'd love some better ideas. One -- SN cultists are not really wild, uninhibited, impulsive, and free to kill. Actually every SN cult is just another human social group, and like other cultures and subcultures have stated and unstated codes of behavior. Thus SN cultists kill only when allowed by the cult's leaders, and by their social conventions. SN cultists become good citizens of just another human social group, and their psychological nature is no more alien or inhuman than that of many normal humans. The good thing about this interpretation is that one can easily believe that the SN cultists can work as a team, be discrete, and exist for a long time without attracting lots of attention. The bad thing is that this makes at least some SN cults not particulary horrific, since, like other human societies, they have rules, regulations, heirarchy, and other strict behavior controls. This really detracts from the attraction of the cult, since one might as well join any other group that kills under certain accetable circumstances. It could also make them seem less insane, since their urges are sublimated by what is, after all, just another set of social rules. Such an interpretation makes them seem dangerous, but not necessarly horrrific or alien. Two -- The cult keeps order due to fear of the leaders, who tend to be ruthless and/or powerful wizards. This is a bit better than the previously mentioned interpretation, but is far from perfect. First, you still have heirarchy, and order (though despotic). However, in reality their are always people who will attempt extremely dangerous thing, and (especially among sociopaths I believe) very impulsive individuals. If SN cultists are murderous, wild, free, etc, it would seem to me that SNers might often kill one another, and that even the leaders would be the target of attacks on a regular basis. In other words, even with powerful leaders, their should be a hight mortality rate, both due to impulsive murder, and due to shows of force by the leadership. It seems to me that this would cause so many disappearances and corpses, that even Joe Flatfoot and his buddies notice any given SN cult, and that such cults would soon become common knowledge. And for that matter, why wouldn't the leadership also kill impulsively? It seems to me that such a cult wouldn't last very long, unless they recruited at an incredible rate. Three -- The cultists are truly wild, impulsive, free, and totally loose cannons who kill whenever they want. This seems much more in the spirit of Lovescraft's end time vision, but of course such an organization wouldn't last more than a few meeting. "You took the last of the coffee without making a new pot? You bastard! Bang, bang, bang." "Hey that's my seat!" Stab, stab, stab." Obvious probelms here. Any ideas how order and reveling in freedom can coexist? Marco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:11:44 +1200 From: Williamson Mark Subject: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS Company where nobody knows what is happening except core leaders Always have doment leader. Isolated communities. Families. Problems with large organisations devoted to evil. > -----Original Message----- > From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com [SMTP:MSubias@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 25 August 1999 12:20 pm > To: Deltagreen@nocturne.org > Subject: DG: Organization vs releving in freedom > > After a couple weeks vacation, I'm back. Included was a trip to the > Monterey Bay Aquarium, which > had a special deep water exhibit. This included a display of luminescent > jellyfish and other > oddities. I also petted a variety of marine creatues, including a sea > cucumber, which was > particularly disconcerting for me, as they look particularly alien, and > feel very strange. > > Three -- The cultists are truly wild, impulsive, free, and totally loose > cannons who kill > whenever they want. This seems much more in the spirit of Lovescraft's end > time vision, but of > course such an organization wouldn't last more than a few meeting. "You > took the last of the > coffee without making a new pot? You bastard! Bang, bang, bang." "Hey > that's my seat!" Stab, > stab, stab." Obvious probelms here. > > Any ideas how order and reveling in freedom can coexist? > > I don't think cults are filled with truly wild, impulsive, loose cannons. I think most cultists are people who slavishly follow the dicates of their religion/group in a way which makes sense according to the system of values which their little section of society follows. So if you sincerely believe that a UFO is passing by and you have to die to catch it then it makes sense to kill yourself (like the Heaven's gate crowd) or poison everyone on an underground train (like the cult in Japan). I run cults as one of three things to get around the whole "we're a great big organisation devoted to blood sacrifice that no body knows about" problem and the leadership problem of having followers who aren't as dedicated to the worship of great old one X as the leaders: a) an isolated community of believers. For example, The whole town is a member of the cult and meets in the church on Fridays to sing strange hymns. This is the classic Innsmouth situation. Isolated community cults can last for years before the authorities find out. However, to get around the infighting problem the whole group of people have to be completely dedicated to the cause. I like this approach for mind slaves to the mythos (insect infected folk, mindless Thralls, that sort of thing). b) a corporation or friendly society where only a select group of people know what's going on. By keeping most of their employees in the dark about the true nature of the company the cultists in the company (and there only needs to be one or two) can get all sorts of evils deeds done to and by unsuspecting people. This approach gets around the leadership problem by having very few cultists all of whom can be completely dedicated to their cause. If your cult has to commit illegal and immoral acts just make the corporation a gangster organisation, these groups keep people in line and focused. This is the Jim Jones approach. c) a few scattered cultists who operate alone. This is lone assassin/mad doctor approach where the cult activities are all performed by one madman. No leadership struggles here. Aside from all this, a little infighting in the cult (in a long campaign) can be good. It can be a good plot twist for the person the players have been tracking for a long time to end up wearing concrete slippers in the harbour or be found entrails removed in a crypt. - - OMW > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:06:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: DG: Travel Information Agents travelling overseas should consult http://www.cdc.gov/travel/ before they depart. Wouldn't want their investigative activities cut short by a bout of Montezuma's revenge ... or worse. ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:13:00 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS In a message dated 8/24/99 7:41:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, m.williamson@ace.ac.nz writes: << I don't think cults are filled with truly wild, impulsive, loose cannons. I think most cultists are people who slavishly follow the dicates of their religion/group in a way which makes sense according to the system of values which their little section of society follows. So if you sincerely believe that a UFO is passing by and you have to die to catch it then it makes sense to kill yourself (like the Heaven's gate crowd) or poison everyone on an underground train (like the cult in Japan). >> History, both ancient and modern, is filled with groups that had insane beliefs and yet were capable of organization, planning and discipline. And here's a little something to mull over: IF all of the writings and predictions and occult signs are correct and the Endtimes are an inevitability, then trying to curry favor from some of the entities that will be in control couldn't really be defined as insane. Morally bankrupt (by my compass), but not insane. But let's leave that with the Why We Fight thread. Uncharacteristically, I am reminded of a movie. :P American History X is worth watching. Two scenes in particular haunt me. One is a family dinner. The protagonist (played by Edward Norton) is sitting at the head of the table and is holding forth. He quotes statistics that are official and comes to decidedly un-PC conclusions. For example, the simple, easily verifiable ratios of ethnicity in American prisons. Where I see evidence of a racial bias in American justice, he sees clear evidence of a racial disposition to crime. I assume we would have differing interpretations of the graphs in The Bell Curve. I found myself reluctantly agreeing with each factoid he presented, because I had encountered them before and knew they were not the product of some neo-Nazi manifesto. But I disagreed with the interpretation of the data. Which is not viscerally satisfying. And, to be honest, merely reveals my own bias. It is a very uncomfortable feeling to find yourself (reluctantly) agreeing with each point of an argument, diverging only at the conclusion. That's why the center will not hold; the best of us lack all conviction. Introspection is the enemy of cant, but it doesn't inspire action. I felt like Hamlet debating Hotspur. The second scene is a pickup basketball game. The Norton character is talking philosophy in the bleachers while some skinheads are playing basketball with some black players at Venice Beach (this is not an aberration, it happens. Venice is like that). One of the skinheads made a bet he couldn't cover and lost. He comes to Norton for some money. Norton gets extremely pissed at his fellow skinhead for getting into such a dishonorable position. He berates him for his foolishness but says he will fix it. Instead of merely handing over the money, he ups the ante by challenging the black players to a new game. The stakes will be the right to use the basketball court. "If you win, we leave. You'll never see us here again. But if we win, this court is ours. You can have any other court in the world, I don't care. But this one will be ours." The black players go for it. There is something thrilling about getting it out in the open. Norton takes off his T-shirt and for the first time we see his tattoo. He has a large black swastika tattooed on his pectoral. There is nothing coy about it. It is big, black, and boy howdy it's a frickin' swastika. There is power in the commitment that went into that permanent sign. This guy doesn't live on the edge, he crossed the border long ago. The black players are impressed, and not as sure of themselves. The basketball game is filmed like Leni Riefenstahl's documentary of the Munich Games. Black and white, slo-mo, lovingly framed action sequences. Beautiful images of athletes in competition. Without realizing it, you find yourself rooting for the skinheads. When they win, you are jubilant. Go Nazis! This is the essence of the allure of fanaticism. They appeal to the best in us. It isn't merely hate that drives them, but pride. And pride is a good thing, right? Mark McFadden Proud to be American. Especially since the qualification test was so hard. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:26:19 PDT From: "Christopher D. Nichols" Subject: DG: The Hastur Mythos, or "Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds." Warning - Opinions ahead. Proceed at own risk. If consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds, then it seems my mind is little. For in reading some of Mr. Tynes new material, there is a major inconsistancy with a great deal of Call of Cthulhu game material and Mythos writing. In my mind this is not a good thing, and quite probably rather silly and unnecessary. In COUNTDOWN, page 200, John Tynes writes: "Those seeking consistancy with published Call of Cthulhu materials are free the continue conceiving of Hastur is [sic] a big tenticular glob of a monster; others are encouraged to open their minds and enter a new form of understanding." Effectively, this divorces Tynes Hastur Mythos material from the standard presentation of Hastur. However, Tynes' vision of Hastur certainly goes beyond what is normally entailed in most Hastur-related material, it does not preclude this material. Tynes' divorce from standard Mythos lore is unneeded. Let me explain. Tynes' extrapollation of Hastur portrays it as a fundamental force of the universe, like gravity, with no physical form. The standard Call of Cthulhu version of Hastur is of an entity with multiple physical forms, like the King in Yellow, the Feaster from Afar, and two versions of the thing in the lake, among others. However, these two view-points are not complete exclusive. Look at the Outer Gods. The major Outer Gods appear to be a fundamental force of the universe, and are effectively omnipresent, like gravity. Yet each also has multiple physical froms. For instance, Shub-Niggurath has the swirling cloud form, as well as the Keeper of the Moon Lens form, Azathoth is a nuclear chaos in the center of infinity, and a clam-crab thing on Yuggoth. Nyarlathotep has a vast array of co-existing forms. Why wouldn't Hastur be similar, existing as a cosmic principle and a physical entity at the same time? Indeed, it is entirely likely that all Outer Gods and/or Great Old Ones exist as both physical beings and cosmic principles, and that the fleshy minds of man can perceive some only as cosmic principles, others only as physical entities, and a select few that are on the right psychic "wavelength," as it were as both. As was stated in DARK THEATRES, "The King in Yellow is the king of that city, but... he's a [sic] more than a king. He's a god, a patron of the arts... a thing swimming in a lake...." Hastur, the King in Yellow, is all these things - a bat-winged, horrid-faced thing in the lake, the white polypous thing, a brain-eating monster, something in mottled yellow tatters, an psychic force - and more. Whether you believe that or not is up to you, and none of my business anyhow. All I'm doing is providing another side of the story.... That is all. Chris Nichols _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: earthquake-inducing weapon? On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, David Farnell wrote: > "Bring me the head of Diego Garcia!" Whassamatta, need newer forms of degenerate pleasures these days? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > This is the essence of the allure of fanaticism. They appeal to the > best in us. It isn't merely hate that drives them, but pride. And pride > is a good thing, right? To quote Lord British; "Pride is not a virtue," Avatars should beware. Another individual once wrote a list of seven deadly sins, and as far as my addled brain can recall, Pride was on it. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: The Hastur Mythos, or "Consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds." On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Christopher D. Nichols wrote: > > > > Warning - Opinions ahead. Proceed at own risk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds, then it seems my mind is > little. For in reading some of Mr. Tynes new material, there is a major > inconsistancy with a great deal of Call of Cthulhu game material and Mythos > writing. In my mind this is not a good thing, and quite probably rather > silly and unnecessary. > > In COUNTDOWN, page 200, John Tynes writes: "Those seeking consistancy with > published Call of Cthulhu materials are free the continue conceiving of > Hastur is [sic] a big tenticular glob of a monster; others are encouraged to > open their minds and enter a new form of understanding." > > Effectively, this divorces Tynes Hastur Mythos material from the standard > presentation of Hastur. However, Tynes' vision of Hastur certainly goes > beyond what is normally entailed in most Hastur-related material, it does > not preclude this material. Tynes' divorce from standard Mythos lore is > unneeded. Let me explain. [explanation terminated] I both agree and disagree. The surreal entropy of Carcosa and the Derlethian blob of Hastur are not mutually exclusive. For reasons of embodient, Avatar and all reason must be disregarded when the true horror of the Mythos is involved. Hastur reveals to us that causality is a sham. Any attempt to provide insight or understanding is meaningless because (sic) cause and effect do not exist. Carcosa could be lurking in the corners of humanity's subconscious one day, and Hastur the Unspeakable could be blessing his flautists with the Promise the next. Quantum Physics is showing us how this might be possible, and ancient religions such as hinduism and Zen Buddism know it to be true and false. Everything is an illusion. If your investigators travel to the Mediterrainian Island of Al-Amarja, the world capital of surreality, they might even discover the illusion behind their metaphysical being and meet with their creators. But this too will pass. The Man in Black is : Killing the Buddha Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:21:47 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS In a message dated 99-08-25 13:30:58 EDT, you write: << To quote Lord British; "Pride is not a virtue," Avatars should beware. Another individual once wrote a list of seven deadly sins, and as far as my addled brain can recall, Pride was on it. >> That would be the hubris spawning Pride, which would be synonymous with Vanity and Arrogance. Pride was listed as a deadly sin because mere humans weren't supposed to ever forget that they are merely dust and insignificant in the grand design. You shouldn't be proud of anything personally because everything comes from God, and besides, you're a sinner because Adam&Eve fucked up. I was using Pride in the newspeak sense. As in positive touchy-feely self-esteem ethnic\cultural subset Pride Week that generates all of those public service TV spots. Mark McFadden Didactic? Moi? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:01:38 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: The Dark Side I have come to save the Delta Green Mailing List from itself! We can't have off topic posts that fail to address DG concerns or provide original thought! I declare that by the Year 2000, I will have personally ended Off-Topic posting! The MiB is here to tell you that he is the Millenium Man, and now is the time of the Y2MiB~! Martin Ostergaard wrote: > > I can't believe people keep calling it "The Dark Side of the Moon", this > must be some sort of Pink Floyd scheme to spread unscientifical > disinformation amongst people. The fact is, there is no side of the > Moon which is constantly "Dark", calling it "The Far Side of the Moon" > would be much more acceptable, as the moon is always facing the same > way towards the Earth. I noticed this in the Delta Green sourcebook, > as well and was really annoyed about it for a few minutes (pg.73, > section "Autonomy"). > The Dark Side of the Moon is a commonly used phrase, and it has it's origins in science, not ignorance. During the Apollo program, NASA would lose communication with spacecraft in orbit around the Moon for approximately 50% of the time. This was because the craft was located behind the "dark" side. "Dark" is a commonly used term in wireless communications, and it refers to territory which cannot covered due to things like atmospheric interference, jamming and the Moon. This is why the Steven "Celery Sound" Segal film "Dark Territory" was called such. The train had to pass through so many valleys and tunnels and mountainous terrain that maintaining regular communication was not possible without carefully timed bursts into satellites. This Dark Territory made the Train an ideal Command and Control center for the Terrorists. Excepting the fact that Steven "Aikido Wannabe" Segal was coming to rescue his niece. Later, many weak minded individuals would take it upon themselves to proclaim that photons reach the side of the Moon facing opposite Earth all the time, even to the extreme of making off topic posts to newsgroups. > The interesting part is, that by inventing such phrases, and sending > it into mainstream language, are the greys/MJ12/whoever able to > diseducate the people of Earth? No, people are just stupid. ObDG: Severn Aerospace installs CAT scan machines at their remote locations so Shans may feed off the X-rays. Many hosts can lie in a room lit with Ultraviolet fluorescence. An array of circular CAT scanners performing non-stop scans fill the room with clicks. Behind leaded glass, the fuzzy Black and White images of human cerebellums filled and infested with alien insects gradually scroll across computer screens deliberately left unmanned (this is NOT so investigators can stumble across them and lose 1/1d10 SAN, it's a carefully crafted engineering deception). The gears of the scanners make rapidly clicking sounds like the myriad mandibles of a swarm scurrying to burrow into unknown machinery. This is how important Shan hosts sleep when they're away from the temple. These hosts inevitably develop tumors in the brain as well as other cancers. How this Cancer affects the Shan is unknown. Cancer rarely kills a Shan host, as other factors of the Shan's harsh slavery usually get the job done much sooner. One source claims that cancerous tumors in the brain and elsewhere can aid Shan reproduction. The Man in Black is : *not* stupid. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #42 *******************************