From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #43 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, August 26 1999 Volume 02 : Number 043 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > I was using Pride in the newspeak sense. As in positive touchy-feely > self-esteem ethnic\cultural subset Pride Week that generates all of those > public service TV spots. newspeak died fourteen years ago. Political Correctness was designed to identify morons. Pride still ain't no virtue, it's a weakness that obscures true accomplishment. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins and proud of it! Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:37:00 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: EARTHQUAKE~! > DG: With Japan's highly-centralized gubmint, a major quake in Tokyo > would chop the head off the country. AUM was possibly researching an > earthquake-inducing weapon. Might someone else have grabbed the > prototype when AUM went down? Hell, maybe that was what AUM was > FOR--they were created and funded to create a weapon to destroy Tokyo, > then dumped when they'd completed it. Now it's in the hands of... > (sounds like EH material) I think the Earthquake machine would be a Kewl trick by a CIA double Agent. Think about it: CIA man joins AUM before it was widely known in the press, but after NSA intercepts reveal the truth. He tells them of his disgruntled mad scientist buddy (just the type AUM likes) and the CIA EarthQuake Machine. CIA Man then says "Pay my buddy lots of money and he'll steal the blueprints of Earthquake Machine." Then AUM gets some very expensive blueprints, and proceeds to build an essentially worthless machine like a steam organ from 1896 or so. Sounds like exactly the sort of Caltech Prank/Shenanigan/Operation that the CIA loves. I remember hearing about how CIA heard (from NSA?) about a Soviet Technology demonstration in Kuala Lumpur, Indonesia. All the upper-class scum were sure to attend. CIA prints up a bunch of flyers offering free food and distributes them (via airdrop!) among poor villages. As a result the hungry hordes decended on the demonstration and much hilarity ensued (some might call it looting and pillaging, but I call it hilarity, Okay?). The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:18:35 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: Info Request - Yidhra That body odor jabronie "Brian M. Sammons" <105073.2452@compuserve.com> wrote: > Yidhra evolved over the countless aeons to what she is today. In fact > she is still evolving. She does so by consuming life forms and stealing > their genetic material and keeping the _good_ stuff. Yidhra then > rebirths the thing she had consumed, but the animal is now drastically > altered on the cellular level, monstrous looking, and most likely > totally insane. Note that evolution is not some grand march toward ultimate perfection as the Mi-Go seem to think, or have chosen to guide themselves toward. Instead, evolution is a mindless reaction to circumstances that leaves many species with adaptations that were good at the time (sentience), but ultimately become useless as conditions changed. I'll reiterate the Giraffe and the Baobab tree as an example of this. I get this evolutionary anecdote from Crighton's "The Lost World." Basicall, back when Mr. Giraffe was a short necked critter, he ate Baobab leaves, Yum Yum. So the Baobab grew taller and the Giraffe grew a long neck. The tree grew thornier and the Giraffe developed an extremely tough neck and stomach. The Baobab got toxic and the Giraffe developed immunity. Biologists call this pointless race "The Red Queen Syndrome." In Lewis Carroll's sequel to "Alice in Wonderland," "Through the Looking Glass," the Red Queen tells Alice to run faster and faster, but she has to run faster and faster just to stay in place. The biosphere has many races of this sort, with species in constant competition. Climate change also affects which variations are more suited to the new climate. The idea of a perfection of life is based upon assumptions of human superiority and Social Darwinism, this sort of misguided belief leads to the old horror of Eugenics. It is a kind of thinking that leads to genocide excused by science. The world has been down that road before, and teachers and students *still* fail to realize the danger of instilling such flawed ideas. Life was not meant to sit still. It was meant to change. Not toward any idealized goal, but to provide protection against the harshness of the future. Life exists, to exist, to carry on. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:42:56 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS Greetings. TRhere comes a day in the life of each one of us, when we have to turn around and face the beast. > Pride still ain't no virtue, it's a weakness that >obscures true accomplishment. Oh, my goodness! I agree with the Man in Black!!! I need a stiff lemonade, NOW! Take care, gentlemen. Davide Mana [facing the beast. But nice] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:41:58 -0500 From: Theron Bretz Subject: DG: Re: EARTHQUAKE~! >Sounds like exactly the sort >of Caltech Prank/Shenanigan/Operation that the CIA loves. > >I remember hearing about how CIA heard (from NSA?) about a Soviet >Technology demonstration in Kuala Lumpur, Indonesia. All the upper-class >scum were sure to attend. CIA prints up a bunch of flyers offering free >food and distributes them (via airdrop!) among poor villages. As a result >the hungry hordes decended on the demonstration and much hilarity ensued >(some might call it looting and pillaging, but I call it hilarity, Okay?). Unlurking... Years ago, a friend of mine (former USAF pilot and elint specialist) explained how the XB-70 Valkyrie* was a stunning success due to the amount of money the Soviets spent trying to build a plane capable of intercepting it. Theron houston *For the non-airplane geeks out there, the XB-70 was an attempt by the USAF to build a mach 2+ capable bomber back in the late '60s. The resulting plane looked like a cross between a lawn dart and a cobra, flew like a bat out of hell, and crashed horribly on an early test flight (due to a mid-air collision). The program was scrapped shortly thereafter. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:41:55 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Info Request - Yidhra Greetings. Having faced the beast for quite a bit, I'm back into my old pedantic self as usual. The MiB should check his sources. He wrote >Note that evolution is not some grand march toward ultimate perfection as >the Mi-Go seem to think, or have chosen to guide themselves toward. Perfect! >Instead, evolution is a mindless reaction to circumstances that leaves >many species with adaptations that were good at the time (sentience), but >ultimately become useless as conditions changed. No. Or at least this is badly expressed. "Mindless reaction" makes me think about zen attitudes, panic fits or worse. Evolution is not a _reaction_ to circumstances. It is the product of circumstances, in the sense that circumstances, assuming the role of Natural Selection, weed out the unfit elements in the philum. "Reaction" implies a sense of finality - or at least of purposeful action - that, as you rightly pointed out, is an illusion. >I'll reiterate the Giraffe and the Baobab tree as an example of this. I >get this evolutionary anecdote from Crighton's "The Lost World." Oh, now I see.... >Basicall, back when Mr. Giraffe was a short necked critter, he ate Baobab >leaves, Yum Yum. So the Baobab grew taller and the Giraffe grew a long >neck. The tree grew thornier and the Giraffe developed an extremely tough >neck and stomach. The Baobab got toxic and the Giraffe developed immunity. >Biologists call this pointless race "The Red Queen Syndrome." This is badly put. We can lay it at Mr Crichton's door, of course (his blunders in Jurassic Park and Lost World are many and sometimes hilarious), but I feel compelled to make a precisation. The above statement makes it look like - a - there's a finality in the changes that both tree and animal undego - b - there's a direct link between the two Now what happens is: there's a lot of giraffes running around looking for a free lunch. Some have long necks, some have short, some have so-so necks. As they live in a place where there are both tall and short trees, everything's fine. Yum yum indeed. Now some as yet unidentified event (that _might_ be a result of the giraffe feeding process, but might as well not) causes the shorter trees to wither and die. Tough luck. The shortnecked giraffes are suddenly in need of a MacDonald, but none's around. They croak before they are able to pass on their genetic makeup to further generations. Now there's just the long necked and way-long necked giraffes around, and they order a second serving before going to have a capital rogering at their spouses, in order to make more giraffes that will inherit the long or way-long necks. You can guess the following steps. This actually takes many giraffe generations and so, but let's make it short. What is important to note is, the event that caused the short trees to go is _casual_ and it did not influence directly the giraffe's neck lenght, that was there already; also equally important is, the path taken by the giraffe is a product of casuality. Restart the movie, and shortnecked giraffes might have an edge this time around. Or all trees might be gone and giraffes be replaced by naked molerats. OK, so I better make myself clear before the MiB sends Buzz around with his patented Molecular Disruptor (TM). My problem here is not the MiB's comprehension of the phenomenon (he's got the basics straight). The problem is, the narrative used to illustrate the phenomenon can be misleading, as it contains and "suggests" implications that are not verified. This sounds pedantic as hell, I know, but it is important. Remember Darwin's way of putting it: "Evolution through Natural selection" - - a lot of things have changed since then (biology made giant steps, and all the rest) but the the idea of Evolution as a product of Natural Selection still holds firmly. With my sincerest apologies to Creationists ;> > The biosphere has many races >of this sort, with species in constant competition. Climate change also >affects which variations are more suited to the new climate. The last phrase sounds likle something I got through the mail a few weeks ago: `His jungle-trained mind had taught him to use his mind for the purpose for which it was intended.' (Barton Werper, _Tarzan and the Silver Globe_, 1964) Climate change can be an agent of Natural Selection. In this sense it enforces evolution, eliminating unfit individulas (carriers of counterproductive variations). But it has little to do with the variations themselves, that are normally the product of random mutations. And please note that in case of _no climate change_, many variations are weeded out all the same. It's just someone else that buys the farm. >The idea of a perfection of life is based upon assumptions of human >superiority and Social Darwinism, this sort of misguided belief leads to >the old horror of Eugenics. It is a kind of thinking that leads to >genocide excused by science. The world has been down that road before, and >teachers and students *still* fail to realize the danger of >instilling such flawed ideas. Sadly correct. The development of Social Darwinism (basically Darwin's most basic enunciations, distorted through a Victorian looking glass) can be the subject of many thick volumes. The fact that some groups and ideologies appropriated this misconception and applied it in the worst possible scenario is one of the great tragedies we should have put behind us. Just to be a spoilsport, I could add that instilling any kind of flawed ideas is dangerous, and a crime; that's why we must get our narrative examples as correct as possible. But let's not get into that. >Life was not meant to sit still. It was meant to change. Not toward any >idealized goal, but to provide protection against the harshness of the >future. Life exists, to exist, to carry on. Hmmmm.... the MiB gets mystical ;> I'd say that life is its own justification, its own purpose. Unwittingly. But it sounds incredibly arid. Life's the archer, the arrow and the target. That's better. End of rant for the time being. Davide Mana Unwitting product of random events. But nice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:21:53 -0500 From: Hamdula@neosoft.com Subject: DG: Beyond the Mountains of Madness (Now vs. Then) POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOLIERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOILERS! POSSIBLE SPOLIERS! Greetings Agents. I was wondering if anyone had acquired a copy of Chaosium's new 'Beyond the Mountains of Madness' book? Wizard's Attic got then about a week or two ago, and began shipping them. I haven't had a chance to read over it yet, but I was wondering on anyone's thoughts for how easy it would be to convert it? It seems very hearty on content (Put your DG book and CoC Rulebook together and you have approx the thickness of this one scenario, 400+ pages), but alot seems specially written for the 1930's to aid the investigators in plotting their Antartic expedition to recover the last trip from the 1920s (if you didn't know that, that's why I added the possible spoilers message). Flipping briefly through, you seem to have a list of specs of airplanes and ships for use, as well as maps and handouts galore. If I ever get around to reading this massive work (3 years in the making says the intro, but I thought I heard something about it before then), I'll try to put up a review for you and the Chaosium Digest, but don't hold your breath (unless you have one of those holes in your throat). Anyway, what do you Agents think about it? :) Cry.Sys ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:10:17 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: DG: COUNTDOWN Reviews Just noticed that there are 2 reviews of COUNTDOWN at: http://www.rpg.net Interesting reading. Just follow the link marked "reviews". Oh, and watch out for spoilers when you get there. Later Graeme (who isn't going to make the mistake of getting sucked into the Lamarckian [sic] evolution vs. natural selection thread) graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:18:41 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, non-Millenium Man Davide Mana wrote: > > Pride still ain't no virtue, it's a weakness that > >obscures true accomplishment. > > Oh, my goodness! > I agree with the Man in Black!!! ...AND SO IT BEGINS~! By the Year Two-Thousand everyone on the list will agree with me, and no post will be off-topic! I will bring to you Paradise Online, a cyber-utopia! The Man in Black is : The Millenium Man Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:26:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: EARTHQUAKE~! On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Theron Bretz wrote: > *For the non-airplane geeks out there, the XB-70 was an attempt by the USAF > to build a mach 2+ capable bomber back in the late '60s. The resulting > plane looked like a cross between a lawn dart and a cobra, flew like a bat > out of hell, and crashed horribly on an early test flight (due to a mid-air > collision). The program was scrapped shortly thereafter. I've always suspected that the Strategic Defense Initiative was a program along those lines, with the actual monies going to big NSA computers, NRO satellites, Majestic Alien Saucer Welding experiments and so forth. Either that or Reagan was handing out ca$h like it was going out of style... I seem to recall a certain Oliver Wendell Jones who proposed to build a giant orbital net made out of Benjamin Franklins ($100). This would halt enemy missiles by virtue of their armor value. I do believe that Congress approved the measure, along with other Warehouse 23 goodies. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:46:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: COUNTDOWN Reviews On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Graeme "I have no" Price wrote: > (who isn't going to make the mistake of getting sucked into the Lamarckian > [sic] evolution vs. natural selection thread) Oh, Yeah?! Maybe *this* will get your dander up. By the Year Two-Thousand, the MiB will personally put a stop to evolution by switching game systems to Unknown Armies and ripping that 333rd guy a new one. Then the Millenium Man in Black will head down to Tijuana with the Naked Goddess in tow for some serious Y2MiB Tequila drinkin', rip-snortin', Pony Actin', Bad Boy Misbehavin' Action! See if I don't! I'll drink so much that there won't be any more Boozehounds, then I'll marry the Naked Goddess, erase history, Kill Ronald MacDonald with my assassin Hamburgler, and Unslack all Time Control. So remember, you will never, eh-ech-ech-eeever, get past the Millenium Man in Black. So stick that Ice Cream in your Milkshake and drink it, Thread Avoider~! IF YAAHHH SMEEEEELLL WHAT... the MiB... is cookin'. The Man in Black is : IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE MiB IS~! Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:48:02 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: COUNTDOWN Reviews In a message dated 99-08-25 19:46:47 EDT, you write: << I'll drink so much that there won't be any more Boozehounds, then I'll marry the Naked Goddess, erase history, Kill Ronald MacDonald with my assassin Hamburgler, and Unslack all Time Control. So remember, you will never, eh-ech-ech-eeever, get past the Millenium Man in Black. >> We've been forgetting to take our meds again, haven't we? No pudding for you. Nurse Wretched And put down that naked mole rat. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:01:32 -0300 (ART) From: kranondp@usa.net Subject: DG: Price email Hello.. Anyone else has not recieved his email regarding the price for presenting Countdown agencies templates? Almost at the end of August and I have not recieved mine. Bruno Di Pentima. kranondp@usa.net Santa Fe - Argentina. "No está muerto lo que puede yacer eternamente, y con extraños evos puede morir hasta la muerte." -- Howard Phillips Lovecraft. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:13:07 -0700 From: Gil Trevizo Subject: DG: Christian Conkle, K'n-yan, and MIB Does anyone what happened to Christian Conkle and his Mists of Aeons website? It seems to have vanished. I was really hoping to read his take on the K'n-yan as the mythological men-in-black. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:08:50 +1200 From: Williamson Mark Subject: DG: Play by mail game - what makes them work (and what makes them fai l) Hi everybody Now I've moved cities and divorced myself from by regular group (had to follow the money) I'm thinking of running a play by email DG game - but the only expirence I have of playing in a PBE-mail game folded after two rounds, so I'm wondering if anyone has any tips to share on what makes a good play by email game. Thanks - -OMW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:45:23 -0300 (ART) From: kranondp@usa.net Subject: Re: DG: Prize email On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 kranondp@usa.net wrote: Hi > Anyone else has not recieved his email regarding the price for presenting Sorry... I meant prize and not price. Anyway, I have a question for you experienced DG keepers. Some of my players are abusing the resources of the fbi, asigning all the investigation (expample: they have to check the files of some murders that happened a few months ago, and the asign that to a npc) to other people. I know it is worst for them, because they won't increase their abilities (and of course, when the npc reports to them, the information provided is not as good as the info that the players could have get), but it makes the game a lot less interesting (obviously not to them, but to me). Is there a way to avoid this? Thanks. Bruno Di Pentima. kranondp@usa.net Santa Fe - Argentina. "No está muerto lo que puede yacer eternamente, y con extraños evos puede morir hasta la muerte." -- Howard Phillips Lovecraft. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:49:32 PDT From: "Adam Marler" Subject: DG: What i've got for Emerald Hammer so far. This is a rough draft (mostly just ideas) for what i'm doing for Emerald Hammer, I just mainly wanted to see what you guys thought about the ideas. If you guys don't like this one, then i've also got a couple more that would work as a sideline. Nazi zombie high school shoot out Background: A gang of skin heads gets pulled into the mythos by their leader who is maybe a Ritter. He has them do normal skin head stuff, like harass black people and stuff, but is gradually stepping up the attacks to worse and worse things. Till eventually he has them attack the school. There's maybe only about 20 to 30 kids in the gang, but they have augmented their numbers with zombies created by some of Dr. Bitterichs magic zombie making goop. The leader of the gang feels that Karotechia is lazy and doing things all wrong. He feels that a small group, given the right “tools” are capable of getting some stuff done. When they attack the school, they bust in with guns and zombies blazing, during the attack however, the leader of the gang is killed by a security guard. The kids in the gang freak out so they round up all the kids and faculty and herd them all into the basements and steam tunnels, then barricade themselves in, not knowing what to do. The School: Karl Willets high school is a very posh boarding school in northern Georgia. The seven or eight large buildings are placed around a central courtyard/park thing. The whole area is encircled by a beautiful brick and wrought iron fence. When the leader of the gang is killed the kids holed up in the basements and underground areas. They barricaded the 4 doors that lead to the basements with large file cabinets and other large furniture. Behind those barricades they have placed a large amount of explosives, that will detonate if molested. The students and faculty are kept in the two large storage rooms in the basement. Zombies prowl the steam tunnels and pretty much the rest of the school. The Gang: The gang calls themselves “Free Aryan Brotherhood”. Anyway, they were formed when Herr Shulë moved to town. He noticed these group of kids that hung around and smoked weed and stuff, he noticed they were the typical redneck types, with the confederate flag and all that. So he gradually formed them into a hardcore racist group. He has been brainwashing them for about a 3 years, so they do pretty much anything he tells them. As soon as Herr Shulë was killed, the second in command (A 24 year old bowling alley attendant named Darrel Hearn) freaked out and took command of the group. At the moment he is a very scared man who covers this up with a lot of cussing. Some of the other members are getting a little worried that maybe Darrel does not know what he’s doing and are thinking about mutinying. The Players: The players should most likely be SWAT team members or at least one of them should be a SWAT commander to let the others in. The Zombie: The Zombies were created with some Resuscitate Casualty juice that some members of the gang managed to find in an abandoned Military Base. There are a large amount of zombies created from the local graveyard and mourge. They are also making zombies out some of the students they have killed. At anyone time there are about 300 zombies around the school and in the steam tunnels. When Herr Shulë was killed, he wasnt. A strange side effect of some of his spells, and some of the zombie goop, he has become resureccted as a huge hulking flabby zombie. - ------------------------------------------------------------ __ Adam Marler (oO) "Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio" /||\ "Illegitimis Non Carborundum" T-Minus 15.193792102158E+9 years until the universe closes! - ------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:13:09 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: Prize email At 12:45 AM 8/26/99 -0300, you wrote: >On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 kranondp@usa.net wrote: >Anyway, I have a question for you experienced DG keepers. Some of my >players are abusing the resources of the fbi, asigning all the >investigation (expample: they have to check the files of some murders that >happened a few months ago, and the asign that to a npc) to other people. I >know it is worst for them, because they won't increase their abilities >(and of course, when the npc reports to them, the information provided is >not as good as the info that the players could have get), but it makes the >game a lot less interesting (obviously not to them, but to me). Is there a >way to avoid this? >Thanks. Nothing wrong with their tactics, as far as I can see. The first stage is to make sure that your scenarios include some crucial info that they can't get from the FBI. The second tactic is to make the PCs paranoid. A few ways suggest themselves, but when you get down to it, nothing works better than the traitor. There's probably someone to whom they assign the majority of these tasks. Make them more than just a face at the bureau. That person sells them out. Give them a reason to do so. Decide who they sell them out to, and what motivates that person or organization. Decide what information this party will affect, and for what reason. Then, implement it. First little things start to go wrong due to misinformation, or shadowy men in black start turning up on particular cases. Then, on one mission, things turn deadly. In the aftermath, the agents find out that their friend had to have fed them faulty information - and has taken a leave of absence, probably taking off for parts unknown. They can't get the Bureau to hunt one of their own without revealing their DG links, so they set out after them on their own... And that's where things get interesting. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "I had come frighteningly near to the capture of an old secret which ventured close to man's haunts and lurked cautiously just beyond the edge of the known. Yet in the end I had nothing." - H. P. Lovecraft and Robert H. Barlow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:57:06 +0200 From: "Florian R. Hanke" Subject: Re: DG: Christian Conkle, K'n-yan, and MIB Gil Trevizo wrote: > Does anyone what happened to Christian Conkle and his Mists of Aeons > website? It seems to have vanished. I was really hoping to read his take > on the K'n-yan as the mythological men-in-black. It has moved: http://mecha.com/~conkle/ (funny page btw :-)) Mists is in Evil Games/Mists of the Aeons Regards, Florian Hanke ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 99 11:23:35 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: RE: Consistancy is the hobgoblin... LOTS OF STUFF SNIPPED Oh my! I have to get in on this topic. BEGIN RANT MODE I take the reference of 'little minds' quite literally and I share Mr Tynes' feelings. Contributing to Strange Aeons discussions (for example) I am sick to my eyeballs of being picked up for so-called inconsistencies such as an accidental misspelling of the name of a Mythos entity, berated for a suggestion which is not supported by the Mythos canon (whatever THAT may be), or seeing Mythos authors other than HPL denigrated as hack artists rather than being taken on their own merits. Put simply, the body of Mythos literature is itself inconsistent and growing like old Azza on a terrestrial holiday. The 'little minds' amongst the anally-retentive HPL nuts seem incapable of dealing with anything outside the published works. Indeed, many of them cannot even agree as to what is 'true' Mythos literature (sic) and what is not. I recently asked all these HPL scholars to tell me definitevly where Leng was. Would you be surprised to learn that I received only one reply, and not from one of these Mythos bores but someone like myself who seemed rather more open minded to Mythos experimentation? As I have opined before, the strength of the Mythos for both fiction and RPG lies in the fact that it is inconsistent. It can be adapted and added to with a little bit of work. And it cannot (or perhaps should not) be broken down into easily resolved, readily identified little parcels of data such as 'Hastur lives here, he looks like this, here are his stats'. Indeed, a recent e-mail discussion with a certain Mr L. Willis brought forth this very opinion shared on both our parts. Sure, you get bad Mythos additions (take a bow Mr Derleth, Mr Carter, Mr Lumley) but you also get good ones too (take a bow Mr Klein, Mr Campbell, Mr Ligotti, Mr Lumley, Messrs Pagan). Consistency? You can have it if you really want it. I prefer to have a mysterious, unpredictable, uncategorisable and wonderfully rich inconsistent Mythos world. END RANT MODE OK, apologies for the rant. However I believe my point is valid. I have observed DG being slated for its rather novel approach to the Mythos. Many years ago I used to hear similar barbs directed at the original Illuminati game, at Ramsay Campbell, at the Arkham board game, at anything not suitable to the sad mindset. To all such critical persons I make no apologies for shouting GET A LIFE! Lastly, an appropriate Scottish acronym which might make it into DG slang if I share it. SALI (n), pronounced Sally, meaning Sad And Lonely Individual. Used to describe real-world sad gits and in a DG context to describe sad types who end up as Y'golonac fodder or get indoctrinated and used by manipulative cults e.g. "the Johnson kid ended up as just another dead SALI". Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:51:24 -0500 From: Nightstar Subject: Re: DG: RE: Organization vs releving in freedom - SOME SPOLIERS At 07:18 PM 8/25/1999 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, non-Millenium Man Davide Mana wrote: > > > > Pride still ain't no virtue, it's a weakness that > > >obscures true accomplishment. > > > > Oh, my goodness! > > I agree with the Man in Black!!! > >...AND SO IT BEGINS~! > >By the Year Two-Thousand everyone on the list will agree with me, and no >post will be off-topic! I will bring to you Paradise Online, a >cyber-utopia! > >The Man in Black is : The Millenium Man >Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum >Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. >http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] Would this be an evolution of the list? ;-> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:32:12 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: DG: A Stir of Echoes I saw a sneak preview of "A Stir of Echoes" last night. It is an extremely well crafted film. Everyone who was bitching about "The Haunting" ought to be pleased with this one. Very little digital F/X and what is there is used almost subliminally., I will refrain from saying more so as to spoil nothing. Phil ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:43:40 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Prize email On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 kranondp@usa.net wrote: > Anyway, I have a question for you experienced DG keepers. Some of my > players are abusing the resources of the fbi, asigning all the > investigation (expample: they have to check the files of some murders that > happened a few months ago, and the asign that to a npc) to other people. This doesn't sound like abuse, having FBI clerks do paperwork on *official* cases is standard operating proceedure. FBI agents in the field can't exactly go back to the federal building every twenty minutes. I would role play the phone call to the clerk as a Library Use roll. If DG Agents are operating under DG cover, then they have to burn favors (perhaps in the form of luck rolls?) with their clerk buddies. This is where trials and tribulations might begin. They could start a perfectly legitimate invesigation into their activities by these clumsy actions. Perhaps the best solution is to spread different jurisdictions among the investigators, that way you have seperate (but hopefully equal) areas of authority. My vision of a perfect "all-purpose" cell is FBI, CIA, and NSA. This way DG cover is almost required for most investigations, but under the table office work is limited to Delta Green channels. > I know it is worst for them, because they won't increase their abilities > (and of course, when the npc reports to them, the information provided > is not as good as the info that the players could have get), but it > makes the game a lot less interesting (obviously not to them, but to > me). Is there a way to avoid this? Thanks. I think that your problems can be solved by good roleplaying. It is insufficient for investigators to make vague statements and expect a Keeper to not initiate some sort of role-playing action. The same thing can be said of dice-rolling. Every dice roll (even in combat) should be accompanied by an equivalent role-playing description or interaction. Good Roleplaying should be rewarded by game mechanic bonuses: ******* Agent GROIN: "I call Special Agent Samantha, umm, Horita at the Special Victim's Unit and ask her to run down NCIC checks on all intestine knotting M.O.'s between 1887 to present." Keeper: "Roll Library Use at +10%" (player rolls successfully) "A clerk at NCIC sends a 96 page DES encrypted FAX to you at the US Embassy's secure communications room in Buenos Aires." Agent GENITAL (a NSA agent): "The Russians, Isrealies, and Chinese have already started reading your FAX." ******* OTOH, Bad Roleplaying should be cursed and reviled. Careful not to confuse bad roleplaying with "roleplaying styles I don't like." Remember, everyone at the table is there for different reasons. Some people might like being a bad-@$$ Fed whose mere badge-bestowed authority lays the smack down on every cultist in a thousand yard radius. This is perfectly valid, if a little unrealistic. You may have to rethink your assumption of abuse of power. As long as everyone is having fun, then it should be fine. Anyway Bad Roleplaying should be smacked down: ******* Agent GROIN: "I want info on Byakhee from the FBI." Keeper: "They have none." (Agent GONAD passes a note to the Keeper) Keeper: "A few days later Stephan Alzis shows up with your FBI file and a lot of evidence that could only have come from A-Cell. He wants every carving, piece of jewlrey, and tome from the current investigation delivered to his Adept as soon as discovered." Agent GONAD (a CIA Agent): "Man, that sucks dude." (High-Fives Keeper) ******* I've always thought that an important part of the GM's job was to translate the PC's actions into Game Mechanics. Players should have as little to do with Game Mechanics as possible during play, other than rolling the dice. Good roleplayers aren't born, they're made, and that method is one way to make them. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:59:28 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: A Stir of Echoes On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Phil A Posehn wrote: > I saw a sneak preview of "A Stir of Echoes" last night. It is an > extremely well crafted film. Everyone who was bitching about "The > Haunting" ought to be pleased with this one. Very little digital F/X and > what is there is used almost subliminally., I disagree, every blur scene was probably digital, the mirror phantoms (a good surreal monster), the layered transitions. There were LOTS of digital F/X but they were used very subtlely. Other potentially good up and coming flicks (at least here in the good ol' US of A) are: The Fight Club The 13th Warrior Elmo in Grouchland (Okay it's not very horrifying, but you get to see the inside of Oscar's Garbage Can, and hopefully Margorie the Trash Heap from Fraggle Rock will cameo) The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:22:02 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Consistancy is the hobgoblin... In a message dated 99-08-26 06:34:10 EDT, you write: << Consistency? You can have it if you really want it. I prefer to have a mysterious, unpredictable, uncategorisable and wonderfully rich inconsistent Mythos world. >> I prefer to have a mysterious, unpredictable, uncategorisable and wonderfully rich internally consistent Mythos world. Now before you get anything in a bunch, let me lead of by saying that I agree with virtually all of your original post, and the tiny minds that provoked you into a rant would probably chafe my fundament unduly. I don't worship consistancy, but I don't consider it an undesirable trait. Everyone is going to do what they want to in any case. So, let's say that I've got this idea for a scenario/story that is just so good that it cries out for playing. I've decided that Hastur doesn't exist. Never did, never will. It's all old Toe-tapper disinformation. Carcosa and the KIY, too. Tomes? Forgeries all. Hastur always was and always will be Just Another Nyarly Avatar (JANA). Any stories that indicated that Big N and He Who Is Unlisted are separate entities didn't happen. Scenarios, too. Now, this isn't consistant with the Mythos as most have encountered it, but as I said, the idea I had (for arguments sake) that requires this version of consensus Mythos reality is just too cool to ignore. So, what to do? I use the tried and true Superman solution. It's an "imaginary" story. It's a "What If?" story. No harm, no foul, everyone has a good time and the bluenoses have nothing to whine about because I'm not challenging their "territory". They will complain anyway, because that's what they do, but the flames can't go on for long if you don't bother to fight. By and large, I find it sufficient that I am satisfied. Validation by y'all is nice, and appreciated, but not necessary. I'm presently working on several short stories, a possible scenario and eventually a sourcebook for LA. Not Los Angeles, but LA. My biggest challenge is to make it consistent (though separate) with the world of DG and the Mythos per CoC. Not because it's necessary, but because I like it better that way. It also makes it easier to access from an existing scenario without having to reinvent the wheel. Mark McFadden Otherwise anarchistic. ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #43 *******************************