From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #46 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Tuesday, August 31 1999 Volume 02 : Number 046 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:40:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Russell Mirabelli Subject: Re: DG: Reviews of DARK THEATRES? >Since there seems to be a lull on the list... >Has anyone had a chance to read their copies of DARK THEATRES? Thoughts? I'm about halfway through. Thoughts at this point: The story quality is somewhat mixed. I've only found one story that lives to the level found in ALIEN INTELLIGENCE. However, I don't think I can make a complete sweeping statement until I'm finished with the entire work. The format of the book is disturbing, seeing as I have maybe 10 pages that have pulled loose from their mooring. I'm working on a more complete review for rpg.net. I have capsule reviews of all the stories I've read so far, and I'll submit it once I've completed reading the collection. R Russell Mirabelli russellm@shell.fastlane.net Programmer, Student, and Musician "Let's you and him fight..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:29:44 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: Head transplant! Greetings. Just got the news. A guy called Robert White, a Medicine Doctor and a member of the Pontificial Sciences Academy has announced that from now on we'll be able to operate total (I wonder if he ever considered _partial_) head transplant. The guy experimented extensively on animals. St. Jerome, Karotekia or MJ12? Old schlock movies spring to mind. And what about our very own Charlie-boy Dexter Ward? I hope the MDs on the list will enlighten us. Cheers! Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:42:04 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Head transplant! Davide wrote: >Just got the news. >A guy called Robert White, a Medicine Doctor and a member of the >Pontificial Sciences Academy has announced that from now on we'll be able >to operate total (I wonder if he ever considered _partial_) head transplant. >The guy experimented extensively on animals. >St. Jerome, Karotekia or MJ12? >I hope the MDs on the list will enlighten us. Whilst I'm not aware of any recent "breakthroughs", this guy goes waaay back. IIRC, he's been one of the Pope's scientific advisors for a long time now. I first heard of him about 10 years, maybe more, maybe less, ago... probably in New Scientist or on Tommorrow's World. Scientifically, he's more than a little off main stream, and some of his animal work has drawn a little flak from the Animal Rights people. Technically, what he purports to be able to do (take a head from a live person and swap it with a head from a brain-dead person) sounds reasonably feasible. The only (currently) insurmountable hurdle would be that you would need to sever the spinal cord to get the old head off. This would leave the body paralysed... but give it a few years (and some advances in nerve regeneration technologies or bioelectronics) and this may not be so much of a problem. As for affiliation, I would suggest that he is mainly self-interested. The biggest research problem he is going to face would be the ethical objections... which if I guess right would typically be led by religious organizations ("You can't just switch peoples heads around... it specifically says so in Verse 472 of St.Trinian's letter to the Gargarins. Besides, it's against God."). Given that this is true (please no flaming... I'm probably going to burn in Hell anyway), the true Cynical Researcher (TM) would immediately go out and set himself up as an authority on ethics and get onto as many committees as possible. After all, if you get to be one of the one's defining what's "ethical" or not, you have an in-built advantage when your own work comes under the spotlight. Like I said, cynical. But being an advisor to the Pope... well, if he really is doing it to protect his own work then either: A. He is really a Cynical Researcher (TM) and he has Big Brass Balls the size of Yuggoth. B. Someone didn't read his CV when they appointed him. C. There is something deeply suspicious going on (e.g. "See! I have grafted Cardinal Fang's head onto Udo the Gorilla. That should deter those theiving swine from stealing from the poor box!"). Flippant, but you get the point. Later Graeme (not an MD, but suspiciously knowledgeable about some things) graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:54:58 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Head transplant! Karotechia, definitely. MJ-12 already has MKULTRA, and a full head transplant would be a little conspicuous ("Hey, there's Bob! Bob, what happened, you used to be taller!" "I can't remember"). The 'Greys' already can do this, I'm sure, and if anyone can find pics of animals experimented on, they'd make great props for 'cattle mutilations' Agent Xavier Kickin' 'em where it hurts ("Hah! My protomatter-enhanced 'nads are immune to your feeble ministrations, pitiful human!" "Eat thermite, sheep-raping alien bastard!") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:20:10 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: Re: Different rules systems... >For SAN, I did Willpower checks (one of the base attributes I was using). If >I remember right, I used "current" Willpower and "base" Willpower. Current >Willpower dropped when they saw bad nasties, but their base WP remained >unchanged (to prevent a few bad rolls from ruining their minds). Tynes has recently posted an aborted freelance project at his website, a D6 adaptation of the television series STARGATE SG-1, which I gather West End Games commissioned shortly before they pulled the ripcord last year. His SG-1 adaptation is not complete, but all of his D6 rules variant is there, except for character templates. Given SG-1's focus on government ops teams fighting the unknown, you might find this suitable for use with your DG simulations: http://www.John.Tynes.com/rl_gaming.html be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:14:18 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: argh, plus on-topic If you ask me, DG is our world, + the Mythos, -Mythos fiction, + anything the players do, + or - anything the Keeper wants (e. g. zombies, Arkham, Mass., Haggis MacBagpipe's Scottish fast-food-super-giant-mini-mart and feed store, etc.) Agent Xavier Kickin' 'em where it hurts. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:12:10 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Different rules systems... Greetings. Matt wrote... >Howdy. I was wondering if anyone has had luck or experience shifting Delta >Green to another rules system. I'm playing around with some conversions to >te D6 system from West End Games, and I think it would be fairly easy. I >know GURPS has been done -- anyone else tried something different? OK, all together now - check the Ice Cave for suggestions/opinions/rants. [I hate myself when I do this, no really. From next post I'll place a link in a SIG file, and good riddance] As for alternate systems, I'm repeating myself but I personally favour "The Window", not only because it's free and you get it from the web (there's a link, for a change, in the Cave), but because it's easy, so you won't waste days learning it and explaining it to players, and adapts perfectly to Dg. The fact that coherent Sanity rules are provided in the basic package is a plus, too. I generally get overenthusiastic about the system, and one day I'll post on the web my experiments with it - like many keepers, I'm still searching for the Holy Grail of Roleplaying, the Perfect Game Engine. Maybe the Window is not it, but it comes close to my idea. All this, of course, just to offer a second opinion. [I came to GURPS too late in my life to be able to fully appreciate it, I guess] Take care. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:59:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Womack Subject: Re: DG: Reviews of DARK THEATRES? On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Russell Mirabelli wrote: > >Has anyone had a chance to read their copies of DARK THEATRES? Thoughts? > > I'm about halfway through. As am I. (Well, halfway according to page count; halfway through the third of seven stories, by story count.) > Thoughts at this point: > > The story quality is somewhat mixed. I've only found one story that lives > to the level found in ALIEN INTELLIGENCE. However, I don't think I can > make a complete sweeping statement until I'm finished with the entire > work. I concur. The second story, which is the longest in the book at ca. 120 pp., has an interesting premise but an annoyingly obfuscatory style; I prefer to hope that it's simply undeserving of having received the lion's share of the pagecount rather than being representative of the quality of the book as a whole. > The format of the book is disturbing, seeing as I have maybe 10 pages that > have pulled loose from their mooring. Mine's holding up, but only because I've trained myself through years of frugal book-hoarding *never* to crack the spine of a book. Where _Rules of Engagement_ is a superior physical specimen of a book, _Dark Theatres_ is startlingly shoddy by comparison. The cover is of a very light cardstock material, not much heavier than construction paper, and the glued binding is, as noted, prone to disintegration. > I'm working on a more complete review for rpg.net. I have capsule reviews > of all the stories I've read so far, and I'll submit it once I've > completed reading the collection. Race ya. ;) > Russell Mirabelli > russellm@shell.fastlane.net I'll go out on a limb now and say this much--if you're a raving fanboy completist, get hold of a copy of the limited edition. If you desire to be thoroughly well-versed in all things DG, but timing isn't quite so critical, wait for the mass-market edition due out this fall. It'll probably be cheaper, hopefully sturdier, and certainly easier to acquire. Chris Womack Keeper of the List oaktree@nocturne.org ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 99 11:47:56 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: RE: Consistency/Hastur/Mythos Well, I didn't expect that rant to provoke a thread! However, it has been interesting to see all sides represented in some fashion. I was actually arguing for anarchy, freedom and the use of Mythos inconsistencies as a GM tool. As I see it internal campaign consistency and logic is a question for each individual GM. For me, a little internal inconsistency, at least from a players viewpoint, is as good a thing as set rules and templates. Players (including those who have read the CoC rules in a past life) should never be allowed to stand on firm ground when they make their assumptions. Keep 'em off balance. I think it would also be a pretty safe bet to say that no two DG or CoC Keepers use the same internal gestalt, we all tweak it to suit ourselves and that is how it should be. Nobody's unusual ideas on the Mythos should be rejected out of hand because we can get Mythos scripture (sic) by reading the stories. It is amazing where you can pick up plot threads or ideas for use later. As for consistency within the Mythos (literature, RPG or other), who cares, we should take what we want and leave the rest to the nitpickers. I didn't want a definitive answer to my question about Leng, I wanted a response that showed the Mythos scholars were actually alive and open to ideas and discussion (c.f. Mr Harms, a fine example of the open-minded breed of Mythos guru) rather than constipated and closed-minded (c.f. many other boring types out there). The commentaries viz Illuminati and suchlike have missed the point. I have also heard Call of Cthulhu itself lambasted as being contrary to the idea of the Cthulhu Mythos as enshrined by HPL et al. To me, that's a sad, elitist standpoint to take. I'd like to think that the gaming system induced new people to enjoy the stories rather than detracting from them. Of my 9 players only 3 had read any HPL prior to gaming. The other 6 have since dabbled with varying responses from "boring" to "f**k me this guy was a twisted Goth". So, where do we go from here? Personally, I'm an anarchist agnostic alongside Mr Lizard, I was a huge Black Flag / DK fan and I'm incredibly thick skinned to boot. If you find something unacceptable, including me, shout about it and do your own thang, I won't be offended. In fact I'll probably listen in to hear your thoughts. Me, I want ideas going to and from the list, not scripture. I find consensual reality (or Mythos) to be a disturbing phenomenon akin to the herd mentality of cattle. No wonder the Mythos forces will eventually cull us, we are our own worst enemies, constantly refusing to face the greater reality. Surely the biggest unwinnable struggle which DG faces is the paradox of protecting that herd from the consequences of its own ignorance? As for the Hastur Mythos? It's about time that another GOO took centre stage from Cthulhu (or Nyarlathotep), why not Hastur? Thanks to all concerned the recent Yidhra postings have been really helpful to me and my flashback players will be coming in to contact with her/it REAL soon during the period prior to the Japanese invasion of China in 1937. And that should make the Millennium End-Times scenario all the more entertaining. Heh! Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 99 12:53:01 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: DG and Beyond The Mountains Of Madness I did a pre-release playtest of BTMoM. The pre-release review may be found on RPGNet at this URL http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_1533.html I reckon there are 2 ways to use it in a DG world S P O I L E R S F O R B T M O M (1) Flashback mode. Have the players game out the scenario in the 1930's. Once concluded, play 1990's and allow them to discover a few facts (e.g. shipments of animals, brains or suchlike to Antarctica) which lead them to suspect something alien at the pole. A 1990s conspiracy group dedicated to keeping the Unknown God imprisoned would make a good case target for DG operatives to investigate until they discovered the Truth(tm). It also dovetails nicely with the DG short story "Item of Mutual Interest". This was my chosen option. (In my opinion you will waste a lot of the detail by avoiding this era but...) (2) Total conversion. Difficult in the light of spy satellites, global warming, explorers and the Fiennes madman tramping all over Antarctica (frostbite on your dick fergawdsake!). You'd lose the difficulties of flying over the Mountains, the cold, inadequate equipment, the Nazis and communications. You could posit a low key scientific expedition to Antarctica with DG operatives aboard. World governments have been deceived by the UG conspirators, Antarctic explorers, HIGHJUMP etc have been duped all these years and storms or magic have prevented the discovery of the God Trap. But there are still secrets to be found. The expedition would not be headline news and not everyone would know the true purpose. Sabotage could come from competitors such as the Karotechia or MJ12 (warned away from the pole by the Greys?). Raise the Mountains (and the Plateau city) to ridiculous heights (40000 feet?), have them almost-destroyed in an earth tremor after the original Dyer-Lake expedition, or concealed via 1930's ET science. The ETs will have multiplied considerably and have a better understanding of humans through their dealings with the conspiracy. More slave shoggoths and more revoltee shoggoths. Perhaps an ET vs. shoggoths war is under way again? ET vs. Deep Ones? One scenario thread might be the eventual discovery that the ETs and the humans share an interest in keeping Earth intact. ET allies anyone? ET biotech might be made available, MJ12 get upset, world detente just around the corner, my imagination is running riot but you get the drift. You could make a pseudo-ecological scenario out of this one. Ecologists on board argue for the rational study of the plant things whilst others argue for extermination or pacification. The dilemma of what to reveal still exists, except in this case the world at large might respond with Arctic troops and artillery in order to 'properly manage' the dangerous dimensional rift at the pole (or exploit it as an energy source). Nuke responses are unlikely given the potentially disastrous consequences even if the God Trap survives (see 'Swan Song' by R McCammon for one possible outcome). The release of the Unknown God could theoretically be the harbinger of the End Times, causing the complete destruction of this universe. That raises the question of whether agents of Big C (as opposed to the Crawling Chaos) would actually want the UG released at all. Escaped Seeds also offer strong plot possibilities; DG agents vs growing animaculi in New York, along the lines of Mr Koontz 'Phantoms' / Predator 2 / Alien. SUMMARY Chaz and Jan Engan, the authors, wrote BTMoM with precisely this 'open ended' approach in mind, hoping that the scenario would be a launching point for many other plot threads and much more play. I think they did a good job. I reckon you could lose a lot of the nihilistic atmosphere by setting the scenario solely in the 1990's. I went for 1930's AND 1990's to contrast the heroic struggle of the 30's PCs with the know-it-all gun-toting 1990's anti-heroes. Its amazing how quickly the 30's takes on an air of nostalgia. And, lastly, some things are meant to stay secret. I suggest spoiler warnings where appropriate, you wouldn't want to give away any of the scenario. Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 99 12:53:01 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: DG and Beyond The Mountains Of Madness I did a pre-release playtest of BTMoM. The pre-release review may be found on RPGNet at this URL http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_1533.html I reckon there are 2 ways to use it in a DG world S P O I L E R S F O R B T M O M (1) Flashback mode. Have the players game out the scenario in the 1930's. Once concluded, play 1990's and allow them to discover a few facts (e.g. shipments of animals, brains or suchlike to Antarctica) which lead them to suspect something alien at the pole. A 1990s conspiracy group dedicated to keeping the Unknown God imprisoned would make a good case target for DG operatives to investigate until they discovered the Truth(tm). It also dovetails nicely with the DG short story "Item of Mutual Interest". This was my chosen option. (In my opinion you will waste a lot of the detail by avoiding this era but...) (2) Total conversion. Difficult in the light of spy satellites, global warming, explorers and the Fiennes madman tramping all over Antarctica (frostbite on your dick fergawdsake!). You'd lose the difficulties of flying over the Mountains, the cold, inadequate equipment, the Nazis and communications. You could posit a low key scientific expedition to Antarctica with DG operatives aboard. World governments have been deceived by the UG conspirators, Antarctic explorers, HIGHJUMP etc have been duped all these years and storms or magic have prevented the discovery of the God Trap. But there are still secrets to be found. The expedition would not be headline news and not everyone would know the true purpose. Sabotage could come from competitors such as the Karotechia or MJ12 (warned away from the pole by the Greys?). Raise the Mountains (and the Plateau city) to ridiculous heights (40000 feet?), have them almost-destroyed in an earth tremor after the original Dyer-Lake expedition, or concealed via 1930's ET science. The ETs will have multiplied considerably and have a better understanding of humans through their dealings with the conspiracy. More slave shoggoths and more revoltee shoggoths. Perhaps an ET vs. shoggoths war is under way again? ET vs. Deep Ones? One scenario thread might be the eventual discovery that the ETs and the humans share an interest in keeping Earth intact. ET allies anyone? ET biotech might be made available, MJ12 get upset, world detente just around the corner, my imagination is running riot but you get the drift. You could make a pseudo-ecological scenario out of this one. Ecologists on board argue for the rational study of the plant things whilst others argue for extermination or pacification. The dilemma of what to reveal still exists, except in this case the world at large might respond with Arctic troops and artillery in order to 'properly manage' the dangerous dimensional rift at the pole (or exploit it as an energy source). Nuke responses are unlikely given the potentially disastrous consequences even if the God Trap survives (see 'Swan Song' by R McCammon for one possible outcome). The release of the Unknown God could theoretically be the harbinger of the End Times, causing the complete destruction of this universe. That raises the question of whether agents of Big C (as opposed to the Crawling Chaos) would actually want the UG released at all. Escaped Seeds also offer strong plot possibilities; DG agents vs growing animaculi in New York, along the lines of Mr Koontz 'Phantoms' / Predator 2 / Alien. SUMMARY Chaz and Jan Engan, the authors, wrote BTMoM with precisely this 'open ended' approach in mind, hoping that the scenario would be a launching point for many other plot threads and much more play. I think they did a good job. I reckon you could lose a lot of the nihilistic atmosphere by setting the scenario solely in the 1990's. I went for 1930's AND 1990's to contrast the heroic struggle of the 30's PCs with the know-it-all gun-toting 1990's anti-heroes. Its amazing how quickly the 30's takes on an air of nostalgia. And, lastly, some things are meant to stay secret. I suggest spoiler warnings where appropriate, you wouldn't want to give away any of the scenario. Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 99 13:49:58 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: More DG and BTMoM Thoughts Having hit the send button on my last e-mail I realised that I hadn't put down my plans for DG agents and BTMoM. Apologies if you are bored by GMs wittering on about their campaigns. My take on 1990's BTMOM is that, ultimately, the secret of the ETs (rather than the God Trap) will leak out to the world at large as it is too big to hush up. Scientific speculation will result in ETs revealing the true nature of mankind, history, life on Earth et al, although much Mythos info will be held back by the ETs (and their human coconspirators) or deliberately lost in translation. Within governments, the major politicos will be secretly informed of the God Trap, its purpose and power with the result that the ETs are given Antarctica by the international community as their extraterritorial homeland. Revelations about God, man, evolution and such will trickle slowly into the public awareness whilst scientific exchanges will be gobbled up by governments in question. Creationists AND evolutionists will be surprised by these revelations. Orthodox religions will be aghast and suffer irretrievable loss of face. Unorthodox and fringe philosphies (including Mythos cults) will experience an upsurge in membership. Bioenginneering will allow embryonic colonisation of the nearer planets, improvements in the food chain, altered medicine and other Cyberpunk inspired niceties. Inspiration for this includes 'Sundiver' by David Brin, almost anything by John Varley, Bruce Sterling, Walter Jon Williams, 'The Hormone Jungle (I can't recall the author), 'The Infinity Concerto' by Greg Bear(?), 'Shockwave Rider' and 'Sheep Look Up' by John Brunner and 'The Lords of Pain' by Richard L Tierney. Social and economic changes wipe out traditional power bases (bye bye Wintel, DuPont etc) and a short era of globalism ensues. DG changes to become an official enforcement agency at the command(?) of the US government, dealing with Mythos incursions and illegal ET technology. But its all too late. Yidhra cultists are busy releasing wild bioengineered viruses, there is a Pacific no-go zone guarded by stealth boats, Cthulhoid back-to-the-sea cults get active, comms networks are targeted by Ygolonet terrorists, reactionary anti-ET sentiment is rife, Karotechia get racist, global weather goes haywire and the ecology of earth gets upset by new life forms, including a biological organism which snacks on metals used in the construction industry. Ultimately, the stars are right, somewhere between 2010 - 2030. A cultist gets an ET tectonic agitator and raises R'lyeh 30 seconds ahead of a futile multilateral nuclear missile and particle beam strike (cue onset of major environmental event, nuke winter/summer, anything that springs to mind). Team Cthulhu has a field day, slowed only briefly by ET and human armies. Earth is 95% human-free by the end of the week. Big C prepares for a jump to the next dimension, planning on releasing the UG to destroy this one and thus frustrate the Elder Gods of Pain. There is hope, a small band of military types on Mars who might be able to prevent the destruction of the God Trap as Team Cthulhu leaves for pastures new. However, Earth is a total loss, irradiated and biologically hostile to humans for the next umpty-thousand years. A few scattered survivors will remain until the gene pool dies or is altered by something Mythos-related. Well, that's the long-term campaign plan. Whether it will work is a different matter entirely. Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:41:59 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Third World boobies Jeff Ewing schrieb: [snip] > In a feeble attempt to steer this to DG relevance: It seems to me that > much of the RL UFO mythology of abductions and examiniations stem from > some of the same psychic mechanisms. "What would we do to aliens if we > landed on their planet? Surely they're doing the same to us?" I think the explanation for the sexual aspects of many UFO-abdution-stories is much easier: Just take a closer look at those "abductees" that claim to have been raped by aliens: The redneck boozer, the nerd with a complete lack of social life or the 47year old woman that is still waiting for the right one: For many of them this was [ or would be ] probably the only chance to ever have any kind of sexual experience. BTW: I never would have thought that I'll return from a holiday to the list by answering to a thread called "3RD WORLD BOOBIES"..... ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:41:59 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? Good Evening. A couple of days ago I finally watched "The Phantom Menace". My question to this list is: Is the German version the only one where those toad-like fellows from the Merchant's Federation that invades Naboo speak with a FRENCH ACCENT????????? This really confused me. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:58:38 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? Eckhard Huelshoff said: > Good Evening. > > A couple of days ago I finally watched "The Phantom Menace". > > My question to this list is: > > Is the German version the only one where those toad-like fellows from the > Merchant's Federation that invades Naboo speak with a FRENCH ACCENT????????? Yes, apparently. In America, they were blatantly Chinese. Just like the Gungans were blatantly Jamaican/African (in our version) depending on who you ask. That was the reason Jar Jar "Meesa think meesa racial stereotype" Binks annoyed me. > This really confused me. > > ECKHARD > OBDG: Who benefits from sneaking racist or nationalist propaganda in mainstream sci-fi movies? Who could possibly profit from the added paranoid sentiment? Or did I just answer my own question. So the Karotechia have killed George Lucas and regenerated him. They control the spell that can reduce him to his essential saltes, and use it to blackmail him. They have him change essential characters and cultures to promote "ethnic diversity", but instead it just raises racial tensions. Whats in the next movie? Jedi with white capes and hoods? Sith with swastikas tattooed on their foreheads? - -- Randall L. Orndorff LightStream Internet rand@lightstream.net "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." -"The Second Coming" - W.B. Yeats ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:15:40 MST From: "D.L. Serius" Subject: Re: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? In our version (good 'ol redneck English) the merchant toads sounded distinctly Oriental (Japanese to be precise). At least to me. Big D > >Is the German version the only one where those toad-like fellows from the >Merchant's Federation that invades Naboo speak with a FRENCH >ACCENT????????? > >This really confused me. > >ECKHARD > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:47:57 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: RE: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? << They have him change essential characters and cultures to promote "ethnic diversity", but instead it just raises racial tensions. Whats in the next movie? Jedi with white capes and hoods? Sith with swastikas tattooed on their foreheads?>> It won't be anything that blatant; the Jedi will still be the heroes. But maybe we'll see questions of genetic perfection raised in the telling of the Clone Wars, as the rugged and genetically-pure Jedi, who've come by their biological mastery of the Force through good old-fashioned evolution-of-the-fittest, square off against the foolish genetic tinkering of the Sith in the Clone Wars. The Karotechia realize their crusade to create a master race of humanity was misguided in its focus on a particular ethnic type; now they pursue a broader perfection. The culling of the human herd must proceed apace; the Clones in Star Wars will make an acceptable scapegoat, humans who are less-than-human, who can be slaughtered for their repellant impurities, thus making such grim and glorious slaughter that much more palatable in the mainstream--and thus more easily accomplished by manipulations of the Fourth Reich. Yeah... That's it... Lucas' latest stuff wasn't just dumb, it was downright SINISTER! Thanks, Randall! (Sinister: from the left hand, hence not right; Trust No Lefties... The Master Handedness Shall Triumph!) SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, www.zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: Sean Bean as Boromir? Zealot looks at the filming of LORD OF THE RINGS Zealot: Sci-Fi News, Reviews, and Interactive Fun ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:05:31 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: RE: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? Greetings. Nice topic, btw. >Yeah... That's it... Lucas' latest stuff wasn't just dumb, it was downright >SINISTER! Thanks, Randall! Thanks indeed. Bad guys with an Oriental slur in USA, with a French slur in Germany .... it's the old script, all over again! I wonder what they'll sound like in Italy - probably like Albanians or Rom, more generally Slavs, to play on the latest xenophoby trends as started by the Balkan conflicts. I'll have to ask a friend in HK how they sounded in Chinese - any bets against a Taiwanese twang? Add to the stew the fact that the Force is pretty New Age if you think about it ("Screw the targetting computer, use the Force!"), and I guess we are getting the old Thulegesellschaft basic mainstays: Race and Spirit. And just to add to the sinisteredness (I guess I just invented a new word) - - they won't get much sinister than Lucas' interview as published by Empire magazine last month. There's a lot of prejudice, arrogance and straight-faced mass-manipulation in Lucas' words. The name of the tune is "Those that like it are kind, decent, sensitive fellows, those that don't are brutish losers, single-cell-brained sex'n'violence addicts that are probably better off with Matrix reruns", basically shrugging off critical observations by questioning the _morals_ of the critic. But the real sinister bit is, everything's aimed at kids! The interview, that rants on for a few pages, keeps coming back to the foundamental point that the story has to be accessible, appealing and _meaningful_ for an audience of under 12-years-olds. This, of course, so that they can _learn_! Learn what? Will the kids force-fed (ho ho ho) a Star Wars worldview turn into something like a Lucas-ju:gend? God, the more I think about it, the less likely it is I'll go and see the movie. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:44:23 -0500 From: Johnson Brad-QA1226 Subject: RE: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? > Bad guys with an Oriental slur in USA, with a French slur in > Germany .... > it's the old script, all over again! I'm new to the list, but I couldn't sit this one out.... I really think the alleged racism of The Phantom Menace has been over-exaggerated. I have no proof of this, having not seen the German version of the film, but it would not surprise me at all if the bad guys' accents were exactly the same in both versions, and we just hear what we want to hear. If no one had ever mentioned racism to me, I probably wouldn't have noticed anything in particular about the accents -- They just sounded like a variety of mealy-mouthed slurring and baby talk to me. (Now the flying alien that looked like Yassir Arafat -- That's a different story...) OBDG -- I've only played Delta Green once -- one of the small introductory scenarios from the original book. But the two players (one an experienced CoC player and one a brand new roleplayer) both really enjoyed the setting and the tone. Given the HUGE volume of background material in the setting, how have you handled introducing players (of various experience levels) to it all? It seemed to me that I should have done more for them than just say "You work for a secret government organization investigating and suppressing various paranormal phenomena." But I don't want to spill everything. How much is just right? Thanks, Brad Johnson (qa1226@email.mot.com) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:22:12 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Different rules systems... Has anybody out there tried doing a one shot using characters generated in "Violence", having them fight their way out of Badass Texas and having DG try to recruit the survivors? I wouldn't want anyone to have these sociopaths for campaign PCs but it would be fun as a one shot just to get it out of their system. Phil Posehn ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:49:06 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? Good Evening. Davide Mana schrieb: [snip] > Bad guys with an Oriental slur in USA, with a French slur in Germany .... > it's the old script, all over again! > I wonder what they'll sound like in Italy - probably like Albanians or Rom, > more generally Slavs, to play on the latest xenophoby trends as started by > the Balkan conflicts. Thinking about it again, I really find it pretty strange that they chose FRENCH. The German feelings towards the French are at least neutral, I'd even go so far that many Germans actually like the French. Many Germans travel to France in their Holidays, we tend to like the French food, the wine and their women. We even consider them as allies and have a French-German brigade. What most Germans find confusing is their cinema and their TV, but we still seem to like them. And even veterans of WWII have good memories about France, most of them enjoyed the occupation and especially Paris [ This may sound sick, but it is that way ]. The far more obvious choices for the bad guys' accent would have been: Dutch: I can't explain why, but many Germans don't like them [ and vice versa ]. And they are merchants, so this would have been kind of the right choice. The German "nickname" for the Dutch is "Kaaskoeppe" [ Cheese-Heads ]. Polish: Many Germans see Poland as a strange and chaotic little nation full of petty criminals, bizarre cars and corruption. Kind of like Italy, but less charming... Arabic or Slavic: The standard accents for villains. Arabs tend to be seen as terrorists and Slavs as criminals. What they do have in common in the public opinion is that they tend to be both violent and primitive. Austrian: Yes, surprising as it may be, many Germans dislike the Austrians. Ehhm, before the above is understood in the wrong way: I do not share these views, but they are very common in Germany. And I think that about any nation has other nations that they dislike, like or find kind of irrelevant [ Most Germans just don't care about Denmark, allthough it is a neighbour ]. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:00:02 +0100 From: "Hugo Barbosa" Subject: DG: A plane crash Hi all, Given that I'm from outside the US, but love DG, there are a few questions I would like to ask to anyone on this list, and US players in particular. Before I get on with the questions, just a bit of background: I'm preparing my first Delta Green campaign. It involves the end of the world as we know it (like in the prophecies of the Apocalypse, and the Stars Are Right). I don't know how this will come to be, but the Mi-Go are certainly aware that this will happen sometime soon putting all their projects of the study of the Human race at risk. They are trying to prevent this (How? Don't ask me right now. :-)) Anyway, someone holds a few vital papers that clearly demonstrate that a catastrophe will happen soon. When this man is about to meet with others to expose the situation, the Mi-go intercept his plane and kidnap the poor man, while making the plane crash. (I was inspired but an X-files episode, although I don't recall which). This will be a cue for Delta Green intervention. My questions are: If a plane crashes, say somewhere between Boston and New York, and if the authorities suspected foul play, who would be involved? The FBI? Could the CIA be involved if there was a suspicion of terrorist attack? Where would the wreckage be taken to? A warehouse? Could someone fill me in on the details of an investigation dealing with a plane crash? Just to give the whole situation a more 'real' feel. This is it for now. See you all in no time. Hugo Barbosa dwarin@mail.telepac.pt ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #46 *******************************