From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #48 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, September 2 1999 Volume 02 : Number 048 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:22:42 +0200 From: "MERMOUD Patrice" Subject: DG: Re: deltagreen-digest V2 #47 Mark McFadden wrote : >Incidentally, is the injunction against revealing Phantom Menace >plot points to our comrades across the pond now moot? As for the UK , point is now moot (released in London mid-july) I read here that for germany, it is okay. Although I have already seen it in London, I think there are other french MListers reading this who may not see it til the official France release on Oct.14th. Patrice Mermoud ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:42:28 +0200 From: Juergen Hubert Subject: RE: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? > > << They have him change essential characters and cultures to promote "ethnic > diversity", but instead it just raises racial tensions. Whats in the next > movie? Jedi with white capes and hoods? Sith with swastikas tattooed on > their foreheads?>> > > It won't be anything that blatant; the Jedi will still be the heroes. But > maybe we'll see questions of genetic perfection raised in the telling of the > Clone Wars, as the rugged and genetically-pure Jedi, who've come by their > biological mastery of the Force through good old-fashioned > evolution-of-the-fittest, square off against the foolish genetic tinkering > of the Sith in the Clone Wars. The Karotechia realize their crusade to > create a master race of humanity was misguided in its focus on a particular > ethnic type; now they pursue a broader perfection. The culling of the human > herd must proceed apace; the Clones in Star Wars will make an acceptable > scapegoat, humans who are less-than-human, who can be slaughtered for their > repellant impurities, thus making such grim and glorious slaughter that much > more palatable in the mainstream--and thus more easily accomplished by > manipulations of the Fourth Reich. > > Yeah... That's it... Lucas' latest stuff wasn't just dumb, it was downright > SINISTER! Thanks, Randall! That reminds me: At one point, an American Neo-Nazi posted on soc.culture.german (if you want to see the postings of American neo-nazis, go to soc.culture.german... :-( ) that the slave-owning alien (forgot the name) in "Phantom Menace" had "typically Jewish features". At the time I dismissed that as just another stupid neo-nazi rant, but now I am starting to think that somone should compare that alien to old Nazi caricatures of Jews... BTW, I saw the American Edition of "Phantom Menace" - and doesn't Senator Palpatine have a French accent? - - Juergen Hubert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:35:09 +0100 From: "Clairr O'Connor & Kevin Honan" Subject: DG: OT inquiry I won't be going to Euro Gencon (work commitments), but I good friend of mine who played her first game of DG over the weekend will be.....I was wondering whether to recommend the Euro gencon DG game or not. Does anybody know if it's going to be good/bad/indifferent ? e P.S. Oh yeah Mark your rock is always there if you want it.... "The ferocity of women never ceases to amaze me" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:18:11 +0200 From: Juergen Hubert Subject: DG: Countdown in Germany Reading through yet another review of DG: Countdown, I just realized that putting a swatiska on the cover might get the book banned in Germany (if the authorities notice, that is), since displaying Nazi symbols in public is illegal in Germany. I know that computer games have been banned because of that (the old Castle Wolfenstein, for example). Perhaps DG: Countdown could get away with this since it uses the swatiska in a reverse form when compared to the Nazis... But I'm not too sure on this topic - I am not a lawyer, after all. Eckhard, that's your cue. Could you give us a refresher course on this topic? Please? - - Juergen Hubert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:58:03 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: French Aliens, slightly off-topic, or, is it? Good Afternoon. Juergen Hubert schrieb: [snip] > That reminds me: At one point, an American Neo-Nazi posted on > soc.culture.german (if you want to see the postings of American > neo-nazis, go to soc.culture.german... :-( ) that the slave-owning > alien (forgot the name) in "Phantom Menace" had "typically Jewish > features". At the time I dismissed that as just another stupid neo-nazi > rant, but now I am starting to think that somone should compare that > alien to old Nazi caricatures of Jews... Well, the creature's face does in fact look like the worst of those caricatures that show how Jewish merchants were [ or are ] seen by the Nazis. This awkward little detail of the "Phantom Menace" kind of disturbed me and I am still not sure wether Mr. Lucas did that on purpose or not. I have to admit that I first thought that it was just me who had the idea that this creature looked like those caricatures. [ And I kind of felt sick about it ] Actually, I never ever thought of G.Lucas as being anti-semitic. [ I mean, isn't S.Spielberg one of his best buddies? ] But he definitely does have the tendency to use or rather exploit fascist style and fashion. And I am not only talking of the bad guys, just look at the final scene of Episode IV: Doesn't the celebration look like directly from a Leni Riefenstahl movie? So....this leads to the following question [ in a desperate attempt to bring the whole thing back on-topic ]: Might George Lucas possibly be a member of Karotechia? Probably some sub-organization that mixes old Nazi lore with New Age elements? And then there are the Arthurian elements of the Star Wars Saga that somebody already mentioned [ Don't remember who, sorry ] and that might have some connection to the mythos. It seems I do have to re-read "Golden Dawn". ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:34:31 -0800 From: "Jeffrey Moeller" Subject: DG: Re: Countdown in Germany It will be interesting to see if this generates any controversy. Look very carefully at the "swastika" on the cover. It is not a Nazi swastika; it is inverted. I believe that this is intended to be the similar-looking American Indian symbol, which has something to do with one of the scenarios in the book (although, quite frankly, not much). Knowing the guys at Pagan, they probably put this very collaterally relevant symbol on the cover of the book on purpose just to see if they could get a rise out of anyone. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:36:42 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Countdown in Germany Juergen Hubert schrieb: > Reading through yet another review of DG: Countdown, I just realized > that putting a swatiska on the cover might get the book banned in > Germany (if the authorities notice, that is), since displaying Nazi > symbols in public is illegal in Germany. I know that computer games have > been banned because of that (the old Castle Wolfenstein, for example). > Perhaps DG: Countdown could get away with this since it uses the > swatiska in a reverse form when compared to the Nazis... > > But I'm not too sure on this topic - I am not a lawyer, after all. > Eckhard, that's your cue. Could you give us a refresher course on this > topic? Please? > > - Juergen Hubert It seems Juergen successfully used "CALL / DISMISS LAWYER". So, here we go: There is no simple answer to this question [ Boy, I really start to sound like a lawyer ]. But let's start with the basics: Using or showing the symbols of parties, organizations and groups that have been ruled illegal by the Bundesverfassungsgericht [ the federal constitutional court ] because of being hostile to our constitution is a crime that can be punished with up to 3 years or a fine [ § 86a StGB ]. Using propaganda material of such groups is punished in the same way [ § 86 StGB ]. Showing these symbols is NOT illegal, if the purpose of showing or using them is to teach, to warn, to research, to report or similar motivations. And, since the freedom of art is protected by our constitution, you can use those symbols in art. And here the dilemma begins: Obviously the NSDAP is an illegal group and therefore the swastika is such an illegal symbol. This means that importing and selling DG:COUNTDOWN might bring trouble or problems, especially since material where such symbols are shown can be banned from shops and additionally many shop owners might shy away from even trying to sell the stuff. The fact that the swastika is used in a reverse form doesn't help. Looking very similar -or "nearly identical" as courts ruled for the reverse swastika- is enough to get you into trouble. And aren't there guys in Nazi- and SS-uniforms on the cover? Legally such uniforms count as symbols!!! "But isn't DG:Countdown art?" I hear you ask. Well, I would agree on that one. But legally, hmmm: The freedom of art is a basic right that is very well protected by the constitution and the courts. They are pretty liberal on that one: There are of course several definitions and theories of just what is art, but normally nearly everything the artist or someone else calls art, has a chance to be considered as art. It's even more easy for "classical" or traditional art forms like literature, painting and theatre to be accepted as art. But I would really doubt that DG:Countdown would be considered as art by the courts, since they would probably not see it as literature, but just a game or gaming material and therefore a normal commercial product like a car or vegetable. And even if it would be seen as art, there could be problems since the use of such critical symbols should be motivated by generally accepted ideas, like the intention to warn of Nazism or to show the horrors of the holocaust. For example: When the title song of Mel Brooks' remake of "To be or not to be" was released as a single in Germany, there was a swastika on the cover. Allthough music is a traditional art form this was not accepted, because the single and therefore the swastika was considered as promotion for the movie and the using of the swastika was seen as an exploitation of Nazism for commercial reasons. [ Film still has problems to be accepted as art in Germany ] The fate of DG:Countdown might be a similar one. This means: Yes, with that cover DG:Countdown has a chance of getting problems in Germany if the authorities notice. The risk is even higher, since the the German authorities consider every game or gaming material as something for children. And there is a special agency in Germany that takes a closer look at books, magazines, videos, movies, games, etc. to check out, if this published material is suitable for children or if they have to be protected from that material. Material containing swastikas or something similar is nearly always considered dangerous for children. The result would be that the material could only be sold in shops or part of the shop that can not be entered by minors. Just like pornography. Sorry for letting this get a bit long, but there really MIGHT be problems. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:41:22 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: A plane crash If you want a big crash w/small agents, you can give them part of the plane to investigate Agent Xavier Kickin' 'em where it hurts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:41:19 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: DG: dgnukes (Ice Cave) + others In Footfall, the ship had gamma ray lasers. If Feynman was a friendly, DG can make nukes (presumably) If your PCs ask A cell for some muscle, and SEALs seem inappropriate, you can use 1st Squad, A platoon, Dragon company, something Regiment, Green Berets, commander Lt. Kevin O'Donnell (Agent Xavier). They have access to any reasonable heavy weapons (whatever the Keeper wants), and can at your option paradrop in to most of the US in 4-5 hours Agent Xavier Kickin' 'em where it hurts Can anyone see the green triangle in my sig (please answer) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:54:41 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: A plane crash Reasonable, although for commercial flight crashes they'd probably use hangers. The aircraft owner would probably co-operate. Then there's the whole question of to what level pilot error becomes the default cause of any crash due to industry pressure. Nobody wants the public to spend too much time thinking about just how old the average commercial aircraft is. Phil Posehn (who usually drives to conventions) On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:20:20 EDT Appelion@aol.com writes: >Well! The Phil-ster has a handle on it! What's your take on the >warehouse/lab/Tupperware container question ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:59:55 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: dgnukes (Ice Cave) + others In "Footfall" the ship was also powered by Freeman Dyson's nuclear artillery shell propulsion system. ("God was knocking...and he wanted in BAD") How about using THAT as a scenario hook? Phil Posehn On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:41:19 EDT Appelion@aol.com writes: >In Footfall, the ship had gamma ray lasers. >If Feynman was a friendly, DG can make nukes (presumably) >If your PCs ask A cell for some muscle, and SEALs seem inappropriate, >you can >use 1st Squad, A platoon, Dragon company, something Regiment, Green >Berets, >commander Lt. Kevin O'Donnell (Agent Xavier). They have access to any > >reasonable heavy weapons (whatever the Keeper wants), and can at your >option >paradrop in to most of the US in 4-5 hours > > Agent Xavier > Kickin' 'em where it hurts > Can anyone see the green triangle in my sig (please answer) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:40:48 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Items of Interest ... and a Poll Poll: Yes MJ-13 So secret, even I have no knowledge of my own existence or activities ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:40:44 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Countdown in Germany I'm delegating. Cell Y will be responsible for purchasing copies of Countdown (is it available in stores? Will it be?) and mailing them to P.O. boxes owned by CIA front companies (Agent George will arrange these) just outside Germany. Agent Xavier "Quantum mechanics: the dream stuff is made of." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:50:45 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: dgnukes (Ice Cave) + others YEAH!!! The cultists are going to Yuggoth--and you have to at least convince them to lauchh from Alaska instead of NY harbor! I like it! Altenatly, NWI might be behind it (where are they covered? I can't find it.) I think you got this, but I meant that the ship's lasers were gamma, not x-, rays. If anyone wants stats on 1st Squad, there's probably something close in the DG book. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:59:00 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Project ORION, (the nuke propulsion drive for spacecraft) brought to mind another odd idea that Dyson &co. came up with in the '60s; using small nuclear bombs to dig a new canal to replace the one in Panama. Since this was about the time we discovered Strontium 90 in cows milk, this project was shelved. Does anybody out there have any other really scary "peaceful uses for nukes that were seriously considered during this period? I'd like to have agents of Azathoth or perhaps the Saurians try to bring the projects back in a campaign. The idea has the advantage that the players will have a good reason for getting involved without knowing that cultists are involved. You could disguise it as a Black Ops game or any other conspiracy game system. Phil Posehn ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:09:18 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: Countdown in Germany >This means: Yes, with that cover DG:Countdown has a chance of getting >problems in Germany if the authorities notice. According to the Pagan folks, they discussed this situation with their German distributor prior to going to press, sending them a copy of the cover art to look over. The alleged solution involves placing a sticker over the swastika or somesuch nonsense. German residents desiring an unmarred copy should probably seek mail order. be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:31:54 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for >Does anybody out there have any other really scary "peaceful uses for >nukes that were seriously considered during this period? Mining (by which I mean excavating minerals) is the obvious one. In fact, IIRC, the Soviets used a small nuke to excavate a reservoir for one of their science cities back in the late 50's or early 60's. Personally, I'd be less than happy about having to drink from that particular water supply..... Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:20:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "G. Wyckoff" Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Graeme wrote: > > Mining (by which I mean excavating minerals) is the obvious one. In fact, > IIRC, the Soviets used a small nuke to excavate a reservoir for one of > their science cities back in the late 50's or early 60's. Personally, I'd > be less than happy about having to drink from that particular water > supply..... Don't have time to look this up, but wasn't there talk at one point of using nukes to increase the pressure of the oil in the oil-bearing strata? Don't know about that, and it falls under the idea of mining, in a way. Also, don't forget the proposals to use nukes to power inter-stellar craft. There was a design idea that would have used the thrust from a nuclear blast (actually, many many of them in a row) to power a vessel meant to travel to close stars. I think this was in the late 50's. Last, sort of "peaceful" use; to sterilize an area which was the center of a plague, ala "The Andromeda Strain". Far-fetched, but possibly in the realm of a DG campaign. Jerry gwyckoff@midway.uchicago.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:08:01 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for wasn't there something similar w/ harbors? Remember that the Cult o' Transcendence will need to make a harbor if they want a large (that is, wide) harbor in remote Sweden they will need to blast it. (Sorry no delta [please someone tell me if they can see this], I'm on a Wintel machine right now) Agent Xavier Kickin' 'em where it hurts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:33:13 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Get this: MJ -12 releases anthrax/US/captured Soviet bioagent of some sort, along with a lure (something big, that agents would notice, and it's right in the open, although most papers and mags haven't managed to corroborate, and so don't carry the story). DG sends several cells to cover up and eliminate it, MJ-12 nukes 'em, and has USAMRIID state that the soviet bioagent released on the site had driven some victims insane in much the same way as syphilis. It is highly contagious, and so everyone in the blast area was evacuated (this is not true. A few token victims were infected and exposed to MKULTRA drugs for the news. If the agents are still alive and ask around (or you tell them), most everyone seems to have already "died" from the disease or to have died during or immeidiatly after evacuation) and a nuclear device detonated. Agent Xavier Kickin' 'em where it hurts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:57:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 Appelion@aol.com wrote: > wasn't there something similar w/ harbors? Remember that the Cult o' > Transcendence will need to make a harbor if they want a large (that is, wide) > harbor in remote Sweden they will need to blast it. That sounds vague bells in me head, but I could be associating it with the conspiracy-theory of the Port Chicago explosion (SF Bay Area military supply depot, 1942-43ish) being a test of a US atomic weapon for "harbour-busting". (It's more famous for the mutiny of black servicemen over the dangerous conditions, especially after the blast; the History Channel ran a program on it back in Jan/Feb , when the NBC "Mutiny" movie was broadcast.) Along a vague sidenote from that, some recent websearching has dug up a few threads claiming significant Japanese research into their own atomic-weapons program, most interesting being the surrender of a German sub (after Hitler's death) which was carrying over a hundred pounds of uranium to Japan, complete with four Japanese officers (who were allowed to suicide before the surrender of the sub). One claim was that not only did they get an operating U235-seperation facility in Korea (apparently captured by the Soviets at the end of the war), but that they actually test-detonated an atomic device after Hiroshima but before Nagasaki... Now, I've already hung together Port Chicago with another Left Coast naval disaster for a two-art P Division scenario, but last-ditch (planned kamikaze use) Japanese nukes will fit it beautifully with my Unit 731 campaign-idea (Project Arrowhead). Biological warfare, balloon bombs, holdouts 50 years after, genetic fiddling, hidden and abandoned facilities, corruption, ends justifying the means, escaped experiments, conspiracy, 20mm semiauto antitank rifles, soul-sapping evil... what's not to love? Now, if only I could get around to *doing* some of this stuff up.. Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:40:30 -0400 From: "Randall L. Orndorff" Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Phil A Posehn said: > Project ORION, (the nuke propulsion drive for spacecraft) brought to mind > another odd idea that Dyson &co. came up with in the '60s; using small > nuclear bombs to dig a new canal to replace the one in Panama. Since this > was about the time we discovered Strontium 90 in cows milk, this project > was shelved. > > Does anybody out there have any other really scary "peaceful uses for > nukes that were seriously considered during this period? > > I know that there was a plan to strip mine using a-bombs. Nuke a mountain. Sift through the remains for gold, etc... > > > Phil Posehn > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > - -- Randall L. Orndorff LightStream Internet rand@lightstream.net "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." -"The Second Coming" - W.B. Yeats ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:25:43 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: DG: Peaceful Nuclear Explosions There were stories in 1996 about Chinese plans to use nuclear weapons for digging canals. Here's one of the better links: http://www.sciam.com/0696issue/0696infocus.html It discusses past US and Soviet attempts to use nuclear weapons to stimulate oil production (it worked - it also resulted in oil too radioactive to use) and a plan to widen the Panama Canal with nukes. A term that seems to be officialese for this sort of thing is Peaceful Nuclear Explosions (PNE) - web searching on this term might turn up more useful information. Lizard King's permanently tuned my brain to the Kubrick channel, so I can't help but be reminded of "Peace on Earth (POE)." Steven Kaye P.S. A useful meta-search engine I've been playing with recently is Copernic, at http://www.copernic.com. Versions for Mac and Windows, weeds out dead links, very tasty. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "In short, we did all we could to stimulate an official discovery of the ghastly wreck, without making reference to incredible manifestations, or to humane but illegal acts of euthanasia." -- Michael Shea, The Colour Out of Time ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:41:48 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for >I know that there was a plan to strip mine using a-bombs. Nuke a mountain. >Sift through the remains for gold, etc... Oh. Right. Making a molehill out of a mountain then? Sorry. Couldn't resist. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1980 23:37:01 -0600 From: "Don Fougere" Subject: DG: FYEO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01A9A046.9B57B480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.strategyworld.com/ Formerly issued as "For Your Eyes Only" weekly newsletter. This is now online for free. The actual newsletter of current military, technology and world situation used to cost about $40-50US/year. The actually newsletter may be found at www.strategypage.com Enjoy and Cheers, Don Fougere PO Box 5223, Stn Forces Cold Lake, AB T9M 2C3 Land of Milk, Meteorites and Honey!!! meteorite@telusplanet.net (at home) kamacite@yahoo.com (on the road) Hm (780) 594-1438 - ------=_NextPart_000_01A9A046.9B57B480 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Welcome to StrategyWorld.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Welcome to StrategyWorld (Internet Shortcut) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Welcome to StrategyWorld.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.strategyworld.com/ - ------=_NextPart_000_01A9A046.9B57B480-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:21:14 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Greetings, gentlemen (and ladies) I'll make this short as it's rather fun reading this thread and I do not want to spoil it. Anyway... >> Does anybody out there have any other really scary "peaceful uses for >> nukes that were seriously considered during this period? Channel-digging and strip mining have been mentioned. The thing works. Many of the tests in Nevada during Cold War years were done in order to establish if a big atomic blast can dig a big hole in the ground. It took the US Govt. a few years, but they finally were positive that yes, a big nuke causes a big hole. Sad, really, about accessory radiations and such. Sad, also, that the energy blast can normally vaporize all economically-interesting ores and deposits - no tin, no gold, no oil.... you get the picture. Sad, finally, that digging Panama all over again with atomic charges would cost much more than using traditional methods. Incidentally, _there was_ one peaceful use of all the test blasts of the last few years: recording the seismic shockwaves produced by the bangs as they travelled through the body of the planet gave us a pretty definitive idea of what's the Earth like on the inside. It also helped understanding how earthquake waves propagate. Probably it was still not worth the expences. Take care! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:38:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Pencis Subject: DG: ATM envelopes and Other questions A while ago I remember someone from the DGML setting out to generate an urban legend about this.... (link to discussion about poisoned ATM envelopes) - anyone care to claim it? nothing like subversion to stir the soul... http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blatm.htm?pid=2733&cob=home In other questions: One of the characters being run in my games is an FBI sniper/sharpshooter. Anyone know of any links or discussion about these folks? What I'm interested in is if this is a long term job, or just a short rotation of duty. What do they do when they're not on site? Are they regular desk jockies? (I've searched the ice cave and found discussions of US Marine snipers and FBI hostage rescue teams, but nothing that really addresses this)... ideas? Is 'chasing the bride' going to get summarized and saved for posterity at the ice cave? I missed it when it was in 'first run' and would like to dig through it... Thanks for the input... Davide, great job on the cave I'm really learning lots just digging through it... Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:34:44 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: RE: ATM envelopes and Other questions FBI agents *typically* work in a particular position for few years, usually 4-8 years, before being transferred to something else, whether that's a supervisory spot or another unit, or both. This pattern applies for special tactics agents as well, whether in a regional office SWAT team or in the HRT. HRT agents do their assignment full-time. When they are not out in the field being bad-asses, they stay in Quantico training to be bad-asses. They tend to be very aggressive, gung-ho types--the Waco incident featured a lot of conflict between the hostage negotiators, psychologists who wanted to prolong the siege in hope of talking more of the people out, and the HRT, who lost patience with all the stalling and wanted to bust in. I *think* regional SWAT agents work SWAT duties on the side, when called up by their SAC; otherwise they perform a main role, whether it's Violent Crimes, Organized Crime, Kidnapping, Narcotics, or whatever. SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, www.zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: Will DC Lose Superman?? Plus: Zealot looks at the filming of LORD OF THE RINGS Zealot: Sci-Fi News, Reviews, and Interactive Fun - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Chris Pencis In other questions: One of the characters being run in my games is an FBI sniper/sharpshooter. Anyone know of any links or discussion about these folks? What I'm interested in is if this is a long term job, or just a short rotation of duty. What do they do when they're not on site? Are they regular desk jockies? (I've searched the ice cave and found discussions of US Marine snipers and FBI hostage rescue teams, but nothing that really addresses this)... ideas? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:38:50 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Thanks to everyone for their postings on this topic. I'll expand a bit and add some odd tidbits from my childhood that don't involve nukes but do indicate how careless we used to be about such things. When I was very small I recall having my feet flourascoped by a shoe salesman as part of a fitting. He was not wearing any shielding. I wonder if his children have the Innsmouth look. Back in the Silver age of comics there used to be a page of ads for various novelty items such as sneezing powder, x-ray glasses, etc. In the middle of this there was a small ad where you could buy for 10 cents a piece of Trinitite, the green glass made when sand was fused by a nuclear test. Thousands of kids carried one of these around in their pocket before someone noticed that many of these were vary radioactive! They then franticly tried to recall them. Don't know how many were actually recovered. "Ice cream, Mandrake...Children's ice cream" Colonel Jack D. Ripper Dr. Strangelove ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:18:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "" Subject: DG: Further Peaceful Uses of Nukes The shipping routes for weapons grade plutonium have just been announced at http://www.cbcnews.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/1999/09/02/nuclear990902 . Since the American shipments will pass through the city where I live, I will monitor and advise if there are any suspicious activities such as those described in the case reports for OPERATION GLASS FOREST. ======================================== John Petherick, CIH e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net - ----------------------------------------------- Tired of missing important calls while online ? Get Internet Call Manager through Cyber Beach! http://home.cyberbeach.net/InternetCallManager - ----------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! http://www.cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:38:31 -0400 From: becole@juno.com Subject: Re: DG:10 million strong and glowing On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:38:50 -0700 Phil A Posehn writes: >When I was very small I recall having my feet flourascoped by a shoe >salesman as part of a fitting. He was not wearing any shielding. I >wonder if his children have the Innsmouth look. Not to poke too much fun at you, but from a slacker-misguided-mentality-technocratic-stock-humping-indifferent viewpoint that kind of statement just screams "old fart". I think they did a special on TLC about that particularly misguided use of technology. Among the lovely side effects, as you have indicated, were genetic "tampering", also either arthritis, osteoperosis (sp?) or some kind of horrible foot disfigurement. Everyone together.... hop-shuffle, hop-shuffle. And crossing over into urban legend....what about those old photo booths where you sit, isolated, behind curtains while a strobing flash illuminates you for the "picture". Those boys who developed MKULTRA sure were keen, and all that for a buck or two, what a bargain. "...one Colt .45 automatic, three clips of ammunition, one hunnard dollars in rubles, one hunnard dollars in gold coins, one miniature Roosian phrase book and bible, two tubes of lipstick, one issue of prophylactics. three pair of nylons....shoot, fella could have a pretty good time in Vegas with all that stuff." -B (as in Balthorium G) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:43:44 +0100 From: Barry Hill Subject: DG: Starting a campaign In message Eckhart said; >rI always prefer to introduce them as members of some federal >agency and let them play out one or several scenarios of the James Bond / >mystery >/ MERC 2000 / etc. kind of game and THEN there'll be some scenario where they >are >confronted by some kind of paranormal activity/villain/phenomenon. This does not >have to have any relation to the mythos, in fact it might even be better to >start >with some "classic", like vampires, ghosts, etc.. And then, slowly, you >introduce >the mythos... I started with Closed Casket from Secrets . It is an ideal starter . \Barry Hill. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:39:34 +0100 From: Barry Hill Subject: Re: DG: Different rules systems... I bet no-one has tried a CoC/ DG cross with Space 1889. It works- byakhees in deep space, mi-go from the asteroids and the Mars god Vulthoombehind the cult of the worm . DG also can use an old UK game called 'Blood' very well. Gurps ' Warehouse 23' is also very useful. \Barry Hill. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:54:04 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: ATM envelopes and Other questions Greetings. Chris decided to stroke my ego, and wrote >Is 'chasing the bride' going to get summarized and saved for posterity at >the ice cave? I missed it when it was in 'first run' and would like to >dig through it... It might end up in the Cave one of these days. I'm currently struggling with the first anniversary update and I think that Cave hanger-ons (Cavemen?) will appreciate more hard data than my stabs at writing fiction. So, as I don't like to test the patience of my fans, I think I'll send the original .rtf to you off-list for your edification. Please just don't sell it to a publisher or a movie company, ok? Take care. And watch your mailbox. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:04:11 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG:10 million strong and glowing On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:38:31 -0400 becole@juno.com writes: > >Not to poke too much fun at you, but from a >slacker-misguided-mentality-technocratic-stock-humping-indifferent >viewpoint that kind of statement just screams "old fart". Yeah? I had front row seats for Jimi Hendrix! Young whippersnapper.. Going off to drool now... "You'll have to answer to the Coca Cola company!" Phil ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:47:14 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: DG: SLANG: George Kaplan North By Northwest was just on cable. Possibly the quintessential Alfred Hitchcock flick, as it utilized everything from his bag of tricks. The first McGuffin in the movie is the identity of George Kaplan. Roger Thornhill (Cary Grant) is about to have drinks with some business associates. His plans for the evening are changed and he needs to tell someone who is at an apartment without a phone. This being pre-pager, he decides to send a telegram and signals the messenger boy just as the messenger is calling for a George Kaplan. The bad guys staking out the bar see Thornhill signaling to the messenger who just called for George Kaplan and leap to a conclusion. Plot complications ensue. One of them is James Mason, a player who has been keeping tabs on the elusive Mr. Kaplan. He has a dossier of Kaplan's travels across the country. Hotel registers, cleaning bills, reservations and room service charges. It is eventually revealed by Leo G. Carrol (as a pre-U.N.C.L.E. espionage chief) that George Kaplan is a paper man. A construct of reservations and phone calls and set dressing (George Kaplan has tailored suits in need of pickup and dry-cleaning, used shoes left out for shining and has dandruff in his hairbrush). George Kaplan is a combination of red herring and decoy. Being non-existent, he can't be seen or caught, but the search for him reveals the searchers. A bit convoluted for DG, though I could see the utility of a group of identities kept active and transient. Sort of a Green Box with tickets to The Lion King. Some West Coast agents refer to an unimpeachable false identity as thoroughly kaplaned. Mark McFadden George Spelvin and Alan Smithee also have interesting pedigrees. ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #48 *******************************