From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #58 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, September 8 1999 Volume 02 : Number 058 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:40:44 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for Hello All, The MiB wrote: > I don't know from propaganda, but WWI halted for several major reasons. Don't know if I should do this but the MiB missed probably the major reason why the axis powers couldn't continue fighting in WW. Namely the massive naval blockade being enforced by the Royal Navy and the navies of the other allied powers. It's very difficult to fight a war when you can't feed the people at home. Had an interesting thought last night concerning the recent discussions on the list about Gen Fairfield and his sources in MJ- 12 what if his contact was Lt Gen Eustis Bell who as we know is opposed to the Accord and could concievably have been knon to Fairfield from service together. Perhaps Bell is even a DG veteran from the official days who went in MJ when it was created and became disillusioned to the point of compromising the secreacy of MJ to Fairfield remember M.I.C.E. anyway what does everyone think that could be a very interesting possibility A cell knows but can't risk contacting him. anyway BCNU Rob "failing to roll his lockpick after loosing the filing cabinet key" Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:39:53 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: Re: DG: Air crash question Graeme Price writes: <<< >We've covered air-crashes, etc. in the US. Who would be used in the UK? - - - Primary agency would be the Air Accident Investigation Branch (which I'm surprised wasn't covered for COUNTDOWN, given that the marine equivalent was). Offhand, these guys are _probably_ based at the Royal Aircraft Establishment in Farnborough, Hampshire [snip] They do the technical/rebuilding/legwork part of the investigation. >>> Graeme's right on all counts, though RAE Farnborough is more likely to be called DERA (an organisation which did make Countdown) Farnborough, except to the local and expats of course. Further info is here: http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/aaibhome.htm - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:00:10 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: Re: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) The Man in Black writes: <<< Illuminate? Moon? The Great Wall? And of course those fat bloody Belgian bastards! (It's been 20-something years and we still don't have a good national/ethnic slur for the fat bloody Belgian bastards!) >>> Isn't calling something boring 'Belgian' good enough? Being Belgian must be awful, look at the evidence - they've taken to drinking very strong beer, eat far too many mussels, put mayonnaise on their chips/fries, eat too much chocolate, go in for kiddie sex and have a penchant for suicide by automobile. - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:43:57 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: DG: Belgium [ was: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) ] Crossingham, Adam schrieb: [snip] > Isn't calling something boring 'Belgian' good enough? > > Being Belgian must be awful, look at the evidence - they've taken to > drinking very strong beer, eat far too many mussels, put mayonnaise on their > chips/fries, eat too much chocolate, go in for kiddie sex and have a > penchant for suicide by automobile. I think the reason for all these scandals in Belgium -child pornography, corruption, food scandals etc.- was the fact that everybody considers Belgium to be boring. I think there is a conspiracy in Belgium going on to make the country more interesting, to see it in the world press. But what confuses me most about Belgium is the fact that the British seem to like Belgium. Isn't it the country they prefer to travel to when going abroad? The next irritating thing is that one of the most horrifying vegetables is called after the Belgian capital. Now, if Brussels' sprouts [sp?] are hell of an evidence for the existence of Shub Niggurath, isn't it only logical to assume that there is a connection between Brussels, therefore the Belgians, and Shub Niggurath? Anyway: Belgium is a fine country to use as scenario background: Not only the Belgium of the 90s with all its scandals. I used Belgium for a 1920s campaign where the PCs had to investigate horrors that were connected to the battlefields and atrocities of WWI. ECKHARD "I may be warm in Flanders But it's draughty in the trenches oh Come rain or hail or wind or snow I'm not going over to Flanders oh" -The Recruiting Sergeant- The only song I know where Belgium is mentioned Oh, wait, there is another one: "Down Under" by Men at Work: "I met a man from Brussels Who was six foot four and full of muscles" [ or was it mussels? ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:30:10 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for The Man in Black falls for the Generals' "we would have won the war but for..." too... <<< I don't know from propaganda, but WWI halted for several major reasons. 1) The French and British managed to talk the Americans into sending a bunch of ignorant youths to sit in dirty filthy nasty trenchs for months, possibly years. So as the German Army shrank, the Allied Army kept receiving reinforcements. >>> True, which forced the Germans to make peace/sow revolution with Russia on the Eastern Front in order to place troops on the Western Front in anticipation of the Americans arriving. The April 1918 offensive was also designed to kill the French in one blow ending the war, before the effect of fresh American troops could be felt. Yeah, sure the Americans were planning on staying a few years, in fact they were preparing for full involvement in the planned 1919 Allied offensive but the war ended before the full effect could be felt. <<< 2) The Allies began manufacturiing and deploying Tanks much faster than the Central Powers. Even over the Ocean. >>> You're over-estimating the power of the tank, and buying the German generals argument that if they had thought of them, they would have won the war. The Central Powers weren't in a position to manufacture the numbers required due to the Allies blockade. The tanks they had were poorly designed, and no replacement was designed which shows that the High Command didn't rate them as a war winner. The significant advances made by the Germans in April 1918 and the Allies later in 1918 were as the result of improvements in inter-arms co-operation. The Germans failed in April because they outran their artillery cover and support lines and became prey to the eventual Allied counter-attack, whilst later in 1918 the Allies advanced making sure that artillery and support advanced as well. Tanks played a part in this, but artillery cover and infantry to secure objectives were more important. <<< 3) The Influenza epidemic vaporized everyone's army and thus no one could continue fighting without constant sneezing and choking to death on their own mucus. >>> The flu seems to have little effect on the front line in 1918; battles still went on, people still died. The Germans claimed the flu had adversely affected their offensive, but they would wouldn't they? Ludendorf made this claim, and he claimed the tank won the war as well. Although the flu did effect the troops (in several waves during the year), the biggest impact seems to be with troops going to/coming from North America, having been crowded into camps and ships. The big 1918 flu wave was in October, and the war finished in November. It could be argued that the last few months may have been effected by the flu but does not seem to have affected the Allies continued and assured advance into territory previously held by the Germans, just it's speed. <<< 4) It was this last that really put everyone on the table. The Allies might have been able to continue, but it would have taken another 5-10 years to put everything back on schedule. By then, the German Army would have been rebuilt with Tanks and the Americans would probably have headed home. Thus the situation would have been a standoff. >>> More likely the war would have lasted another 1-2 years instead if Germany and Austria hadn't been subject to internal dissent. The Germans had nothing to rebuild with, it's citizens at home were cold and eating rationed turnips, it's troops were being issued ersatz equipment and rations, and apparently were amazed at the quality of Allied rations and equipment in 1918, with younger and younger troops were being sent to the front. 4 million Yanks which the Americans were going to send, plus the French and the British would have dealt quite efficiently with the German army as it stood at the end of 1918 going into 1919. It would have been bloody but they would have lost by sheer mass of numbers. Apologies for pretty much ignoring the Austrians, the Russians and the Italians but I'm not well read on those theatres. ObDG: has anyone considered a CoC/DG game where WW1 finished differently and consequently the world is little different from own past - a bit like that Chambers story (sorry I can't remember it's name but it's in the 'King in Yellow' collection) where the Great War ends in 1920, and the US turns a little weird. - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:51:30 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: DG: Alternate Pasts At 12:30 PM +0000 9/8/99, Crossingham, Adam wrote: > > >ObDG: has anyone considered a CoC/DG game where WW1 finished differently and >consequently the world is little different from own past - a bit like that >Chambers story (sorry I can't remember it's name but it's in the 'King in >Yellow' collection) where the Great War ends in 1920, and the US turns a >little weird. That would be "The Repairer of Reputations," with Government-supported Lethal Chambers, an independent Negro state of Suwannee, and a war with Germany over (IIRC) Samoa. Steven - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "In short, we did all we could to stimulate an official discovery of the ghastly wreck, without making reference to incredible manifestations, or to humane but illegal acts of euthanasia." -- Michael Shea, The Colour Out of Time ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:14:12 -0400 From: becole@juno.com Subject: Re: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:00:10 -0000 "Crossingham, Adam" writes: >and have a penchant for suicide by automobile. They don't have one of those Big-Band 1930s revivals going on, do they? Maybe broadcasting "Gloomy Sunday" on the popular radio channels people listen to while they go to work? Can I borrow the tape for my radio station? -B ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:55:33 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for >I don't know from propaganda, but WWI halted for several major reasons. >3) The Influenza epidemic vaporized everyone's army and thus no one could >continue fighting without constant sneezing and choking to death on their >own mucus. Not sure about that (the pedantic 'flu-boy interjects). In the 1918 pandemic, the first wave (which was mild... compared to the second and third waves) hit Europe in April (it may have been transported by incoming US troops, as outbreaks at US boot camps were reported in early spring) with Spain being the first country to acknowledge having it (hence the name "Spanish 'flu") and hit England in June. The second (severe) wave hit in September (this is when most of the deaths occurred - unusally for 'flu the peak age range affected were those between age 21 and 40 - and conservative estimates put the global death toll at about 25 million), with the third (moderate) wave hitting in early in 1919. As to whether the pandemic shortened the war, not sure about that. By September, things were wearing pretty bad for the German forces with the armistice effective on November 11th. My suspicion is that it hit both sides equally, and didn't have that much of an effect on peace negotiations. Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:06:02 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers Sorry, but the below is an ancient canard. You may be thinking of the Hague Declarations of 1899 and 1907, which prohibit explosive rounds, dum-dums and other munitions, like the infamous Black Talon, designed to produce heinous wounds. The *Army's* policy is that using .50s on personnel is wasteful, and that they're mainly for anti-vehicular use. It's a money-saving tip, not a law. Why would the FBI be bound by Geneva anyway, since the conventions govern the treatment of sick and wounded in times of war and prohibit genocide? Jeff The Man in Black wrote: > Note that anti-vehicular rounds such as the .50 Browning are prohibited by > the Geneva convention for use against grunts. Thus the US Army/FBI etc. > are constrained by this policy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:46:21 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers Eckhard Huelshoff schrieb: > Before Vietnam, the US Army switched > > from traditional bullseyes to human silhouettes. During Vietnam, the > > percentage of killers rose dramatically. Whether this was due to the > > dramatic social changes of the times, or the Army's new Killer Mentality, > > or a unholy blend of the two is unknown. But the Army liked it, and > > maintained the silhouettes. > > I think military instructors just love legends like that. It's not a legend, but a fairly well-documented fact. The book in question, which suggested that only 15-20% of US soldiers fired their weapons (in the PTO) is by SLA Marshall. This caused a huge stir after WWII, and made the Army change their training and tactical doctrine to emphasize "putting out rounds," agression, and fire direction by junior officers, interestingly, a lot of yelling, and the human silhouettes. Marshall's research was later found to be flawed, but this is immaterial to the fact that the Army believed it and the first generation of troops trained by the new methods fought in Vietnam. It has been suggested that this is one reason for the seemingly high number of cases of PTS disorder resulting from the Indochina Unpleasantness. Jeff --wishes there were a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Women. Then he'd *really* have a career path. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:55:06 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: First Person Shooters Sounds like a drinking game, doesn't it? Anyway: <> I played a beta test of ROGUE SPEAR with the Antagonist guys a few times. [A little buggy (it's just a beta) but very sweet graphics and movement; one of the ANTs was already talking in review-speak about how one map was the best-drawn he'd ever seen on a first-person shooter.] Interestingly, one of the most gorgeous maps in the game was: The Opera House. No word yet on the Deep One skins or the Hastur Effect patch. SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: John Rhys-Davies in Lord of the Rings, "Geek Lovin" (our latest MP3), and the latest movie reviews! Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:35:00 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Belgium [ was: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) ] Eckhard wrote: >The next irritating thing is that one of the most horrifying vegetables is >called >after the Belgian capital. >Now, if Brussels' sprouts [sp?] are hell of an evidence for the existence >of Shub >Niggurath, isn't it only logical to assume that there is a connection between >Brussels, therefore the Belgians, and Shub Niggurath? And, by extension, the European Parliament and Jaques Santer would be agents of Shubbie. Dammit, I knew (the late, lamented) Alan Clark had the right idea! Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:36:05 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: If You Can't Put This In A DG Scenario, You Got Problems Journal Entries Tell of Killing .c The Associated Press PHILADELPHIA (AP) - Journal notes purportedly made by two friends who were lost while hiking in the New Mexico desert describe in detail how one killed the other before rescuers reached them. The diary ascribed to Raffi Kodikian and his friend who was killed, David Coughlin, also included farewell notes to friends and burial instructions, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Monday. ``I killed & buried my best friend today. Dave had been in pain all night. At around 5 or 6 he turned to me & begged that I put my knife through his chest. I did, & a second time when he wouldn't die. He still breathed & spoke so I told him that I was going to cover his face. He said OK. He struggled but died. I buried him w/ love. God & his family & mine, please forgive me,'' Kodikian wrote in a journal entry dated Aug. 8, the newspaper said. Kodikian, 25, has told investigators Coughlin, 26, pleaded with him to end his pain after the two men got lost early last month while camping in Carlsbad Caverns National Park and ran out of water. Kodikian said they believed they would die. Investigators won't say exactly what they think happened, but they don't buy Kodikian's story and have charged him with murder. He is free on $50,000 bail and living with his parents near Doylestown in suburban Philadelphia. The U.S. Secret Service is currently examining the journal for fingerprints and analyzing the handwriting to determine whether Coughlin actually wrote in the diary, said Gary McCandless, chief of detectives for the sheriff's office. On one page is a farewell note signed ``David Andrew'' and addressed to Coughlin's girlfriend, Sonnet Frost. ``Sonnet, Baby, I write this with a shaking hand. ... I do not know what to do right now, but I am in utter agony and I know you would understand. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH! I have barely eaten & drank since Wed. evening. Nobody is coming to help. I love you! ... We had forever but now all we have is eternity. ... Eternally yours, David Andrew.'' Another entry in the journal read, ``We will not let the buzzards get us alive. God forgive us.'' Another written by Kodikian said, ``Dave has asked that his remains be cremated and thrown over the edge of the Grand Canyon. I leave the handling of my remains to my family.'' Kodikian's lawyer, Gary C. Mitchell, said the killing was an act of mercy because the two were lost in the desert in searing heat without water. He said the two had agreed to help one another die. He also said Coughlin tried to help Kodikian slit his wrists ``They were too weak and the knife too dull to accomplish that,'' Mitchell said, explaining superficial scratch marks police found on Kodikian's wrist. ``And then Raffi, the stronger of the two, did what he though his best friend wanted him to do.'' Authorities have said Coughlin was not near death when he was stabbed, and the men's campsite was just 275 feet from a trail, and a mile and a half from their car. The newspaper said the Eddy County, N.M., sheriff's office made public excerpts from the journal, and the newspaper itself said obtained others but did not disclose how. Sheriff M.A. ``Chunky'' Click and Gary McCandless, chief of detectives, were unavailable for comment Monday on the newspaper's story. Both were expected to be out of the office until later this week. SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: John Rhys-Davies in Lord of the Rings, "Geek Lovin" (our latest MP3), and the latest movie reviews! Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:45:53 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers Jeff Ewing schrieb: > Eckhard Huelshoff schrieb: > > > Before Vietnam, the US Army switched > > > from traditional bullseyes to human silhouettes. During Vietnam, the > > > percentage of killers rose dramatically. Whether this was due to the > > > dramatic social changes of the times, or the Army's new Killer Mentality, > > > or a unholy blend of the two is unknown. But the Army liked it, and > > > maintained the silhouettes. > > > > I think military instructors just love legends like that. > > It's not a legend, but a fairly well-documented fact. The book in > question, which suggested that only 15-20% of US soldiers fired their > weapons (in the PTO) is by SLA Marshall. This caused a huge stir after > WWII, and made the Army change their training and tactical doctrine to > emphasize "putting out rounds," agression, and fire direction by junior > officers, interestingly, a lot of yelling, and the human silhouettes. > Marshall's research was later found to be flawed, but this is immaterial > to the fact that the Army believed it and the first generation of troops > trained by the new methods fought in Vietnam. It has been suggested > that this is one reason for the seemingly high number of cases of PTS > disorder resulting from the Indochina Unpleasantness. I'm suprised. But I have another theory for the higher number of fired rounds or killed persons per soldier: I doubt that it's the use of human silhouettes. I would rather see the reason in something else: Fully Automatic Weapons. I think under battle conditions and therefore under stress, it is easier to just empty you magazine towards the enemy than to follow the one shot - one kill tactics, where you have to chose your victim, aim and fire. But it's just a theory and I may be utterly wrong on that one. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:30:49 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers Eckhard Huelshoff writes: <<< Interestingly the developers of "Twilight:2000" seem to have been affected by this idea: The "Small Arms/Rifle" skill you receive by going through the German Basic Training is higher than what you get in the American Basic Training. >>> I think the Brits get a better base Rifle skill in T:2000 as well. - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:45 +0100 (BST) From: tsiolkovsky@coherent-light.cix.co.uk (Rik Kershaw-Moore) Subject: DG: Air crash question >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:42:41 -0400 >From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) >Subject: Re: > Air Accident Investigation Branch (which I'm surprised wasn't covered > for COUNTDOWN, given that the marine equivalent was). That is odd because there certainly IS a AAIB template in existence, and I apologies for adding it here: Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) Date Founded: 1915 Mission when Founded: To investigate flying accidents and improve safety within the Royal Flying Corps. Mission Today: The Air Accidents Investigation Branch is responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK airspace. Jurisdiction: The Airspace of the United Kingdom. Headquarters: Farnborough, Hampshire. # of Personnel: 225 Annual Budget: £1.3 million History/Profile: The AAIB has its origins in the Accidents Investigation Branch (AIB) of the Royal Flying Corps. It was established in 1915 when Captain C B Cockburn was appointed to the independent post of "Inspector of Accidents" for the RFC, reporting directly to the Director General of Military Aeronautics in the War Office. At the end of the First World War Department of Civil Aviation was set up in the Air Ministry and the AIB became part of that Department being concerned with investigation of both civil and military accidents. The Air Navigation Act 1920 gave the Secretary of State for Air power to make regulations for the investigation of civil air accidents and the first regulations made for this purpose were the Air Navigation (Investigation of Accidents) Regulations 1922. Following the Second World War a Ministry of Civil Aviation was created and in 1946 the AIB was transferred to it, but continued to assist the Royal Air Force with accident investigations - a situation which has continued ever since. After having various parent Ministries the AIB passed to the Department of Transport in 1983 and in November 1987 its name was changed to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB). The fundamental purpose of investigating accidents is to determine the circumstances and causes of the accident with a view to the preservation of life and the avoidance of accidents in the future; it is not the purpose to apportion blame or liability. The legal responsibility for notification of an accident rests first with commander of the aircraft or, if he be killed or incapacitated, then the operator. If the accident occurs on or adjacent to an aerodrome, then the aerodrome authority is also required to notify the accident. The notification is required to be passed to the Department of Transport (in effect the AAIB) by the quickest means and giving, as far as possible, the following information: The person reporting the accident to the AAIB is also required to inform the local police of the accident and the place where it occurred. Occupation Templates AAIB Investigator: Computer Use, Electronics, Library Use, Mechanical Repair, Photography, Pilot Aircraft, Psychics, Spot Hidden & any two of the following: Art (Engineering Drawing), Electrical Repair, First Aid, Law, Psychology. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:15:58 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers Eckhard Huelshoff mused: > I'm suprised. But I have another theory for the higher number of fired rounds or > killed persons per soldier: I doubt that it's the use of human silhouettes. I > would rather see the reason in something else: Fully Automatic Weapons. Oh, no doubt, and I'm sorry if I left you with impression that the human silhouettes were anything but an outward manifestation of the philosophy. However, consider that the US took up not just full auto weapons but the M-16 system, which was designed to put out a lot of rounds, these rounds being lighter and hence easier to carry more of. IIRC, when the 16 was adopted, someone asked if the plastic butt wouldn't be a handicap in close-quarters fighting. They were confidently told by the designers that with the ROF of the weapon no one would ever get close enough to butt-stroke. BTW, the number of rounds fired/enemy killed has gone up dramatically this century. The same applies to you remarks below: because of _Men under Fire_, the Marshall book, the US encouraged it's troops to blip off ammo at a great rate, using the natural tendancy to do so anyway. The thinking was that it's easier to get more guys firing thus than to get them to line up and take their shot --and getting more guys to fire more was high on the list priorities after _MUF_. > I think > under battle conditions and therefore under stress, it is easier to just empty > you magazine towards the enemy than to follow the one shot - one kill tactics, > where you have to chose your victim, aim and fire. Best, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:20:44 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB Greetings. Daniel harms showed us all why he is a published writer and wrote: >All right, we've got some new list members, so it's time to introduce >them to the MiB. [snippage] This one has my vote as an essential entry for the (forthcoming?) DGML FAQ. I've seen too many good people scared off the list by the MiB not to appreciate this level headed, comprehensive overview. It somehow compensates the loss of experience and know-how we have suffered from the brain drain caused by the MiBster biting the head off everyone that dares to say his bit. Such is my enthusisasm about this True Public Service that, unless Daniel intends to use it for the Third Edition of the Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, I'd like to put it up in the Cave for everyone to see. Think about it. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:52:44 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers >I think the Brits get a better base Rifle skill in T:2000 as well. Possibly because (IIRC) every rank in the British Army, upto and including Lt.Col, has to pass an annual qualifying test with the rifle. Note also one disadvantage with the point and autofire (as opposed to aim and shoot) practice is that it uses a *lot* more ammo. This can be a big deal for an infantryman who has to lug ammunition around the battlefield all day. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:55:04 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers Crossingham, Adam schrieb: > Eckhard Huelshoff writes: > > <<< Interestingly the developers of "Twilight:2000" seem to have been > affected by > this idea: The "Small Arms/Rifle" skill you receive by going through the > German > Basic Training is higher than what you get in the American Basic Training. > >>> > > I think the Brits get a better base Rifle skill in T:2000 as well. > Yep. I just checked it and it's the British, the German and the Turks that get a better skill. And the British and the Turkish also get a higher Melee Combat skill - while the Germans don't. This awakens my curiosity: Does anybody know if there really is a difference? I there a special training for Melee Combat in the British of Turkish Forces? And what's the melee training like in other countries' armies? I would find it very helpful for playing or dealing with DG characters with a military background. During my basic training we did some very basic judo stuff [ which was not very interesting for me after 13 years of judo ]. And -more interesting- we learned how to use our spade [ shovel? ] as a very effective close combat weapon. Later during recon training they taught us some stealth basics, like where to put the knife or bayonet in your opponent's body when you attack him from behind or how to strangle. But they never answered my question why they do not simplify matters by just giving us silenced weapons. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:05:41 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers True story of a ex-USAF friend of mine: they had to qualify with pistols every year, and my friend was such a poor shot that he had to take the test several times. His sargent accused him of being a gun-loving freak and intentionally blowing the first few qualifying shoots so he could put more rounds through his .45. I've always thought this would be a great character trait/disadvantage for a player character, something like "Miserable shot, but believed to be a gun nut." Kind of like Saki being the team captain in TokiMemo, if ya hear the theme from the dating sim I'm playin'. . . Jeff Graeme Price wrote: > Possibly because (IIRC) every rank in the British Army, upto and including > Lt.Col, has to pass an annual qualifying test with the rifle. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:57:13 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers So...has the Man in Black tried out "Violence" from Hogshead pub. yet?? Phil Posehn Who still hasn't stopped laughing On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:56:30 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black writes: >On 6 Sep 1999, Peter Devlin wrote: > >> Moral? Beware of allowing yourself to be led into this situation by >> gun-toting PCs. The 'Bhuddist' temple menioned above was supposed to >be >> a brief info-gathering sidetrip in the ongoing scenario, not a >> bloodfest. In modern times a skilled agent with a .50 caliber >Barrett >> would cause even more aggro. Can you say WACO? > >Trouble is, the forces of political correctness have bloated the Rules >of >Engagement with each and every new incident. This makes it very >difficult >to accomplish goals of significance without violating the law. Such a >policy virtually guarantees a scapegoat when press (not journalists) >or >political opponents begin to put the pressure on. The aggravation lies >not >in the small struggles of Investigators and Cultists, but of the >damaging >effects on society as a whole. > >Note that anti-vehicular rounds such as the .50 Browning are >prohibited by >the Geneva convention for use against grunts. Thus the US Army/FBI >etc. >are constrained by this policy. The primary advantage to the .50 cal >when >used against live flesh is the superior range. I usually follow the >concept that people shot by bullets die of blood loss, and not the >12d6 >damage, I haven't really gotten around to formalizing any sort of >Rolemaster-esque bleeding rules for this. But you get the idea. > >Another disturbing development is the increasing amount of knee-jerk >incident opportunism. Black teenagers in Cabrini Green (a slum in >Chicago) >or other inner city regions shoot each other over narcotics on a daily >basis, and no one does anything. But when a couple of brain-dead >white-trash in Columbine pull the trigger a few times, the media >deprives >the entire world of any real or valid information for weeks on end. >Meanwhile, politicians and other (un)concerned citizen groups sally >forth >to continue their corrosion of freedom. > >Politicians seek increased Gun Control because it increases the flow >from >the cordite smelling coffers of the Gun Lobby, who seek favors and lax >enforcement. They also gain endorsement from anti-gun bleeding-heart >liberals who foolishily sell their votes to a system that even cynics >like >me have difficulty penetrating. Each incident unveils the stench of a >new >grotesque corruption of enlightened self-interest. A whirlwind pattern >of >blind idiot chaos. This then is democracy, the finest form of >governence >known to man. > >The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins >Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum >Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. >http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:53:37 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers In a message dated 99-09-08 03:10:04 EDT, you write: << Wise Words. The stress factor should not be underestimated. Our instructors even kept up the stress by having those waiting to get on the range do endless routines of NBC-Alarm. >> In Rainbox Six, the teams always did their shooting practice after some energetic PT to simulate the physical symptoms of stress. Good idea IMHO. Mark McFadden Thinks snipers are girly-men who are not only too flabby to practice martial arts, but are suspiciously reticent about being close to any action. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:57:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: Alternate Pasts On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Steven Kaye wrote: > At 12:30 PM +0000 9/8/99, Crossingham, Adam wrote: > > > >ObDG: has anyone considered a CoC/DG game where WW1 finished differently and > >consequently the world is little different from own past - a bit like that > >Chambers story (sorry I can't remember it's name but it's in the 'King in > >Yellow' collection) where the Great War ends in 1920, and the US turns a > >little weird. > > That would be "The Repairer of Reputations," with > Government-supported Lethal Chambers, an independent Negro state of > Suwannee, and a war with Germany over (IIRC) Samoa. Lovely story - madness crawling around and making itself cozy, mmmm. I personally enjoy alternate timelines; my recent websearching for docco also took an odd turn, for Nazi UFO material, and I found nifty fan-pages for Luftwaffe and Imperial Japanese "1946" war-extensions. Some *evil* ideas for my Arrowhead "leftovers", and perhaps some Nyarli-meddling in the timestreams to horrify the players... Most of my alternate stuff is non-CoC usable, tho - "TubePunk" 1940s/'50s, "Magic Noir" '40s, "Steam Mecha" Victorian Era, and other strangeness. But, anything that'll let you throw in "in-jokes" like Major Marion Michael ("Mike") Morrison, USAAF (call sign "Duke"), is Good Stuff. Semi-DG: damn - I forgot to snag a copy of the "How To Conduct An Internal Investigation" bulk-mail yesterday. It's a seminar announcement, generally designed for business, but if some DGML-type can con their cover agency into sending 'em, mebbe we can get some pointers? ObDG Resources: if you can gain access, and wade through the "professional journal" language of it, PSYCHIATRIC SERVICES will sometimes pop up with fascinating and useful items, like "Mental Health Law In Eastern Europe And The Former Soviet Union" (Oct 98, v 49 # 10, pp 1299). When I have the time, I'm thinking of faking up a realistic "article" about "recurring shared-ideation in seperate and isolated cases" with TKiY and the Yellow Sign... not enough to drive anyone mad, just a few SAN points or so, if they dig through the professional journals. A little dribble of "Ettchibon" goodness to liven up the day... Don, rambling terribly ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #58 *******************************