From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #59 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, September 8 1999 Volume 02 : Number 059 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:30:30 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB At 07:20 PM 9/8/99 +0200, you wrote: >Such is my enthusisasm about this True Public Service that, unless >Daniel intends to use it for the Third Edition of the Encyclopedia >Cthulhiana, I'd like to put it up in the Cave for everyone to see. Go right ahead. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu "I had come frighteningly near to the capture of an old secret which ventured close to man's haunts and lurked cautiously just beyond the edge of the known. Yet in the end I had nothing." - H. P. Lovecraft and Robert H. Barlow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:47:38 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Alternate Pasts >>ObDG: has anyone considered a CoC/DG game where WW1 finished differently and >>consequently the world is little different from own past - a bit like that >>Chambers story (sorry I can't remember it's name but it's in the 'King in >>Yellow' collection) where the Great War ends in 1920, and the US turns a >>little weird. For a nasty, vile little excursion into Karotechia-type alternate time-line territory, check out Thomas Harris' excellent novel "Fatherland". Lots of plot hooks there. A rather disturbing and thought-provoking read in some ways, though. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:51:05 +0200 From: "Florian R. Hanke" Subject: DG: Alphonse pic I uploaded a small part of a sketch of an image I'm doing for the Green Book. It shows Alphonse (Or at least how I think he looks like), reading (What, we can only guess - TRoGlaaki Vol.13?). I thought it might prove useful to keepers who haven't introduced him yet. (Like myself) It's here: http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/alphonse.gif Regards, Florian Hanke ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:50:27 -0400 From: "McGloin, Michael" Subject: RE: DG: Warning on Snipers [McGloin, Michael] PT as a substitute for the effects of combat stress is common throughout Special Operations units, including SEALs, Rangers, SF and even Miami SWAT. This is just one more reason why the skill levels of these individuals is so high. If you want to understand the added difficulty of this please take a look at the Biatholon event in the winter games.By the way regarding the use of 50.cal sniper rifles and the US military. The SEALs have deployed with this weapon into combat. In fact a Seal sniper in Somolia was credited with three kills firing just such a weapon, one of which was at 700 yards. Talk about reaching out to touch some one, with a 10x scope you can get kills at 2000 yards. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:35:00 +1200 From: Williamson Mark Subject: RE: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) Some times a random drive auto roll is the perfect game device. I once played in a Night of the Living Dead game (you know the type - where you play yourself and your local city gets taken over by Zombies) and the GM made us roll for driving at twice the normal speed through the deserted city streets. I failed the roll, causing a Zombie to wander in the way of the car, writing it off and causing us PCs to have to run on foot (with injuries which made us only a little faster than the Zombies). We ran through a park and occasionally one of the PCs would trip and fall or tire out or be unable to run because of injuries and would be devoured by the Zombies slowing them down for a few minutes and let the others get a little further ahead. The effect of the failed drive auto roll was to add incredible tension to the game just when we thought we would get away by forcing the players to sprint for their lives. So drive auto rolls, when used a the right time, can cause great moments in games because it forces the players to think on their feet and find other ways of doing things. IMHO good Cthulhu games are full of times where the best laid plans of players go horribly wrong and its even better if the GM can use a game mechanic to foil their plans as then the players don't feel they are being manipulated. - -Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de [SMTP:EHuelshoff@t-online.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 8 September 1999 3:00 am > To: deltagreen@nocturne.org > Subject: Re: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) > > Crossingham, Adam schrieb: > > [ very useful stuff that I absolutely agree on snipped ] > > > However on the matter of calling for the roll, I'd only do that when > it's > > dramatically required for the plot. If the players are chasing a target > or > > being chased, then a roll is appropriate as this determines what happens > > next: who gets caught etc. Travelling to make a meeting or go to work > isn't > > dramatic. And I'd certainly wouldn't call for a roll if I need the > players > > to get to the next location, otherwise my plot falls apart. Obvious I'm > sure > > to the many experienced refs. on this list, but it had to be said. > > And it's just what I wanted to say from the beginning. > > > > > Remember: > > Dice make life interesting for players, and funny for referees. > > Dice work for referees, not against them. > > Hey, How do you know of the tattoe on my butt!?! > > > > > ObDG: In my personal experience (England to Berlin 1993) the fastest > thing > > on the Autobahn is a VW Passat estate, closely followed by a Porsche, > > usually a 911. The most irritating car on the Autobahn is a Mercedes > (any > > model but not cabriolets) because the lane you are in belongs to them > and > > you are in the way. > > Since I drive one these "irritating" cars as well, I have to tell you the > following: The left lane DOES in fact belong to us;-) > But seriously: I'm afraid that you're kind of right. It's some of the > owners of > big, fast and heavy cars like BMW, Mercedes and Audi that have the > tendency act > as you described [ BTW: I do not ]. It's the result of the fact that there > is no > speed limit: Everyone shares the same Autobahn, no matter if he wants to > drive > 60mph or 130mph. This causes many drivers to stay on the left lane > terrorize > those that are in their way until they leave the lane. > > > I saw more wrecks by the side of the road in Germany > > than I have seen any where else before or since, but the Autobahn are > the > > easiest motorway to drive because they were mostly two lane which made > > mirror use, overtaking and anticipation easy. > > And they are still the safest roads in Germany. > > The most dangerous M-ways in > > Europe IMHO are in Belgium because the Belgians are the stupidest, > fastest, > > blindest drivers I have ever encountered. > > But the Belgians illuminate their motorways, which makes them the second > man-constructed object that can be seen from the moon after the Chinese > wall. At > least the Belgians claim that it is that way. > > ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:14:42 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Alphonse pic Greetings. In case we still doubted the guy can sketch, Florian wrote... >I uploaded a small part of a sketch of an image I'm doing for the Green Book. It >shows Alphonse (Or at least how I think he looks like), reading Great. I can't wait for Alphonse's opinion. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:29:26 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB I've forgotten. When the MIB submitted his character did he include San loss for an encounter with him? Phil P On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:30:30 -0400 Daniel Harms writes: >At 07:20 PM 9/8/99 +0200, you wrote: > >>Such is my enthusisasm about this True Public Service that, unless >>Daniel >intends to use it for the Third Edition of the Encyclopedia >>Cthulhiana, I'd like to put it up in the Cave for everyone to see. > >Go right ahead. > >Yrs., > > >Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu >"I had come frighteningly near to the capture of an old >secret which ventured close to man's haunts and lurked >cautiously just beyond the edge of the known. Yet in the >end I had nothing." - H. P. Lovecraft and Robert H. Barlow ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:38:10 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Alternate Pasts Graeme Price schrieb: > >>ObDG: has anyone considered a CoC/DG game where WW1 finished differently and > >>consequently the world is little different from own past - a bit like that > >>Chambers story (sorry I can't remember it's name but it's in the 'King in > >>Yellow' collection) where the Great War ends in 1920, and the US turns a > >>little weird. > > For a nasty, vile little excursion into Karotechia-type alternate time-line > territory, check out Thomas Harris' excellent novel "Fatherland". Lots of > plot hooks there. A rather disturbing and thought-provoking read in some > ways, though. > Personally I prefer Den Leighton's "SS-GB" EH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:43:23 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB In a message dated 8/9/99 9:43:23, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: >like to put it up in the Cave for everyone to see. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of naming your archive after a facility no-one has access to? Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:38:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Womack Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Davide Mana wrote: > Greetings. > > Daniel harms showed us all why he is a published writer and wrote: > > >All right, we've got some new list members, so it's time to introduce > >them to the MiB. > > [snippage] > > This one has my vote as an essential entry for the (forthcoming?) DGML FAQ. Indeed. I'm working on starting up a FAQ; I'll cover list mechanics and some of the basics, and leave it to listmembers to submit topical additions once it's up and running. Mr. Harms' post should certainly be incorporated in there somewhere. > I've seen too many good people scared off the list by the MiB not to > appreciate this level headed, comprehensive overview. It somehow > compensates the loss of experience and know-how we have suffered from the > brain drain caused by the MiBster biting the head off everyone that dares > to say his bit. OTOH, he does a service by culling the weak. ;) > > Such is my enthusisasm about this True Public Service that, unless Daniel > intends to use it for the Third Edition of the Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, I'd > like to put it up in the Cave for everyone to see. Ditto for the DGMLFAQ, as I said. (The FAQ, when ready for prime time, will be added to the list website, and perhaps (assuming I can coordinate it with that papal patsy Mana) will also appear in the Ice Cave.) Chris Womack Keeper of the List oaktree@nocturne.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:03:16 -0700 From: Joseph Camp Subject: Re: DG: Alphonse pic >Great. >I can't wait for Alphonse's opinion. Apologies, I'm busy calling Andrea. CO Florian, what was your address again? be seeing you, Alphonse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:10:55 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > bullseye. Upon changing to the human silhouttes my result was the best > of the platoon. While I thought of this as a combination of learning how > to shoot and plain luck, my Captain chuckled: "A real soldier, har, har. > Only shooting well when there are people to be hurt, har, har." -Army > humour, a mystery- Maybe it was all those DOOM and Castle Falkenstien games? > Wise Words. The stress factor should not be underestimated. Our > instructors even kept up the stress by having those waiting to get on > the range do endless routines of NBC-Alarm. BTW: Pointing a real gun > that is not secured anymore at a human being in the middle of the night > as I had to do once while guarding the barracks is no fun either. But > you learn to understand the concept of SAN loss. Actually that sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe I like adrenaline better than you. Or maybe that illustrates the concept of SAN loss. Sure, it might suck at the time, but the survivors get to tell Kewl stories over and over and over again. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:21:05 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers My take on the whole sniper/rambo/conan thing is that these sorts of investigators are intended to keep parties from bieng accidentally knocked off by the odd cultist in the tree, rather than allowing one man to take down a shoggoth. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:56:54 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Return of the Sniper On 8 Sep 1999, Peter Devlin wrote: > I didn't have a problem with Tommy Turner's car-full-of-dynamite > down-the-Cthonian's-throat trick in 1920's rural England but I'd have > been pissed if he used that trick on a temple of cultists in the middle > of 1920's London. London bombings just need more and better roleplaying. The IRA is always an excellent scapegoat if the frame-up is done right. Placing a few phone calls claiming credit by an possibly ficticious IRA group that is Radically Catholic, and ranting on about Masonic Conspiracies plotting against God's people in Eire would do the trick. The only problem is that all the clues in the cultist's lair are Blown Up Real Good. This could have scenario busting consequences in the long term, experienced players should know this. > The problem is made worse in modern day DG scenarios as, for example, > there is a ridiculous range of firepower available to the average > American citizen. If you add in criminal, military or law-enforcement > contacts then it is realistic to expect modern Mythos-busting PCs to > turn to extreme armed-response measures at some point. You would expect > concerned citizens to do the same in the real world. The sword is two edged. Delta Green is small, and might be able to slide a WACO by every decade or so, but Cultists stockpile weapons these days and ought to easily outgun any cell. Even non-Mythos Militias (many of which can make good allies vs. Cults) have impressive armories, security gadgets, and fortified positions with guarded perimeters. If your Investigators resemble a platoon of SEALS instead of a squad of Detectives, then it falls upon the Keeper to provide tactical firefights in every session. If everyone is involved in aerospace, then creepy Greys and Shans better step up to the plate. The difficulty lies in a mixed cell. This occurs for campaign reasons, if not properly briefed about the long term arcs planned by the Keeper, then players will create a cell not focused on what the group wants, but on whatever each individual wants. Perhaps the players will conspire to make a cell with the broadest possible expertise, in order to cover all possible situations. I'm not immune, I still retain that philosophy from AD&D where it was almost required. In Delta Green, that conceptual framework is disintigrated by the consultant nature of the cell system. If a platoon of SEALS needs Deep One runes translated, they call A-Cell. At that point a die roll of some sort should be made. If a team of Aerospace Engineers needs to raid a factory, they should drop a dime toward A-Cell. This is not to say that an episodic game cannot benefit from a motley crew of people who despise the alien. That is after all, the traditional means of Gaming. Although I doubt anyone would call the adventure where Giant Beavers gnawed down all the trees in the forest, built Hoover Dam, thereby flooding the Capital City of the Effete Elves and starting the Sylvan/Environmental Wars quite a traditional game. But the scene where the adventurers observed that the water around their waists wasn't getting any lower was a classic. If you liked that one, ask me about the Killer Kobolds from Outer Space sometime. The Man in Black is : one of the few DM's to use Giant Beavers. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:01:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Robert Thomas wrote: > Don't know if I should do this but the MiB missed probably the major > reason why the axis powers couldn't continue fighting in WW. Namely the > massive naval blockade being enforced by the Royal Navy and the navies > of the other allied powers. It's very difficult to fight a war when you > can't feed the people at home. Oh yeah, I remembered that, but um, it was off topic, so I didn't post it. > Had an interesting thought last night concerning the recent > discussions on the list about Gen Fairfield and his sources in MJ- > 12 what if his contact was Lt Gen Eustis Bell who as we know is > opposed to the Accord and could concievably have been knon to > Fairfield from service together. Perhaps Bell is even a DG veteran > from the official days who went in MJ when it was created and > became disillusioned to the point of compromising the secreacy of > MJ to Fairfield remember M.I.C.E. anyway what does everyone > think that could be a very interesting possibility A cell knows but > can't risk contacting him. Yeah, the archives have that discussion, along with the possiblity that Fairfield was MJ-10 and a bunch of other spurious weirdness. We need a FAQ. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:01:46 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Return of the Sniper In a message dated 8/9/99 5:57:31, mib@cyberspace.org writes: >The Man in Black is : one of the few DM's to use Giant Beavers. For good reason. However, if your investigators need a cover for buildings older than the should be, land beavers can come in handy. Agent Xavier Gnawin' 'em where it hurts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:16:02 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Air crash question On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Crossingham, Adam wrote: > <<< >We've covered air-crashes, etc. in the US. Who would be used in the UK? A few Deep Type Thoughts: Maintain thy airspeed, lest the ground rise up and smite thee. "Point your toes, we're going in deep..." - Last words found on an airplane's flight recorder "I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when somebody comes somebody comes up, act like they just woke up and go, 'What was that?!" - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey "US planes have the capability to penetrate deep into Soviet soil." - General Rogers You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi. > http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/aaibhome.htm The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:42:01 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: The Belgian problem On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Crossingham, Adam wrote: > Isn't calling something boring 'Belgian' good enough? NO! Not for me it isn't. > Being Belgian must be awful, look at the evidence - they've taken to > drinking very strong beer, AND~? > eat far too many mussels, AND~? > put mayonnaise on their chips/fries, GOOD LORD ALMIGHTY~! These freakish monstrosities must be put down before the Mayonaise spreads (sic) to untold foods that were never meant to see the white. Quickly man! To Texas, barbeque sauce must be brought to bear! Mayonaise must be contained to sandwiches (like these fine islands in which I reside) and other restricted edibles. Note that Mayonaise is not inherently evil, but like a cream pie, it is a foodstuff that can be used for good or ill. Although some (http://www.nomayo.com/ and http://www.gulf.or.jp/~miyoshi/wmindex.htm) may find it unacceptable, it clearly has appeal beyond the tastebuds of the select few who cannot abide it's flavor. The Man in Black is : gonna go rent "The Stuff" Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Belgium [ was: DG: Failing Drive Auto rolls (or Pilot Aircraft etc) ] On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > I think the reason for all these scandals in Belgium -child pornography, > corruption, food scandals etc.- was the fact that everybody considers > Belgium to be boring. I think there is a conspiracy in Belgium going on > to make the country more interesting, to see it in the world press. Not if you want to house the Capital of the EU, unless the EU (like NAFTA) is a demonic organization meandering towards the New World Order. > But what confuses me most about Belgium is the fact that the British > seem to like Belgium. Isn't it the country they prefer to travel to when > going abroad? Maybe it's a 007 thing? > The next irritating thing is that one of the most horrifying vegetables > is called after the Belgian capital. Now, if Brussels' sprouts [sp?] > are hell of an evidence for the existence of Shub Niggurath, isn't it > only logical to assume that there is a connection between Brussels, > therefore the Belgians, and Shub Niggurath? Ah, but that is because the Brussel Sprouts, or BRASSIGA OLERACEA VAG GEMMIFERA, you have eaten have been improperly prepared. Straight out of the can and carelessly boiled is no way to serve this variant of the cabbage species. It must be loved, basted, and cooked to a tender perfection. Then, a variety of means can be applied to the Sprouts to bring the true delicacy of their flavor to light. Search out recipes and experiment, soon your palate will be rewarded, IF YA SMEEEELL WHAT THE MiB IS COOKIN'~! Mayo & Brussel Sprouts, Hmmm... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:58:07 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Crossingham, Adam wrote: > The Man in Black falls for the Generals' "we would have won the war but > for..." too... Nope, I'll explain further. > 1) The French and British managed to talk the Americans into sending a > bunch of ignorant youths to sit in dirty filthy nasty trenchs for months, > possibly years. So as the German Army shrank, the Allied Army kept > receiving reinforcements. >>> > > True, which forced the Germans to make peace/sow revolution with Russia on > the Eastern Front in order to place troops on the Western Front in > anticipation of the Americans arriving. The April 1918 offensive was also > designed to kill the French in one blow ending the war, AHAHAHAHA~! you didn't eat an army in WWI in one season, at least not in any wargame I've ever played. And the Russian Revolution was building up a head of steam, which was why the Ivans pulled out. The German's wern't forced, but they were delighted to have an insignificant Eastern front. > before the effect of fresh American troops could be felt. Yeah, sure the > Americans were planning on staying a few years, in fact they were > preparing for full involvement in the planned 1919 Allied offensive but > the war ended before the full effect could be felt. Exactly, this was merely good planning on the diplomat's part for once in history. So the Americans, although not slapping everyone silly, were looming in the background, ready to hammer down. The German's simply decided that was one more reason to topple king (chess slang for resigning). > You're over-estimating the power of the tank, and buying the German generals > argument that if they had thought of them, they would have won the war. No they wouldn't, it would be a tank on tank Stalemate (another reason to come to the table). Besides I said that the Allied Tanks were winning the war not the Central ones. > Central Powers weren't in a position to manufacture the numbers required due > to the Allies blockade. The tanks they had were poorly designed, and no > replacement was designed which shows that the High Command didn't rate them > as a war winner. > > The significant advances made by the Germans in April 1918 and the Allies > later in 1918 were as the result of improvements in inter-arms co-operation. > The Germans failed in April because they outran their artillery cover and > support lines and became prey to the eventual Allied counter-attack, whilst > later in 1918 the Allies advanced making sure that artillery and support > advanced as well. Tanks played a part in this, but artillery cover and > infantry to secure objectives were more important. I never said that logitics and Infantry were unimportant,assuming that everyone would realize this without having to point it out. But the fact remains that the Allies had tanks and more of them than the Central Powers. > The flu seems to have little effect on the front line in 1918; battles still > went on, people still died. The Germans claimed the flu had adversely > affected their offensive, but they would wouldn't they? Ludendorf made this > claim, and he claimed the tank won the war as well. The flu did affect their offensive, and the allied one as well. This was incentive for both sides to sit down and begin talks. > America, having been crowded into camps and ships. The big 1918 flu wave was > in October, and the war finished in November. It could be argued that the > last few months may have been effected by the flu but does not seem to have > affected the Allies continued and assured advance into territory previously > held by the Germans, just it's speed. Speed was everything in the flu category. More deaths, more battles and more carnage for two diseased armies that were tired of the whole affair and civilian populations sick with the same influenza and suffering deprivation of varying degrees. > might have been able to continue, but it would have taken another 5-10 > years to put everything back on schedule. By then, the German Army would > have been rebuilt with Tanks and the Americans would probably have headed > home. Thus the situation would have been a standoff. >>> > > More likely the war would have lasted another 1-2 years instead if Germany > and Austria hadn't been subject to internal dissent. This may or may not be accurate, it's impossible to know. But mine is better :) > 4 million Yanks which the Americans were going to send, plus the French and > the British would have dealt quite efficiently with the German army as it > stood at the end of 1918 going into 1919. That's a major, and likely *the* major reason the German's surrendered, but there was a lot more to it than that, which is what I tried to deliniate in my post. Outnumbering is obvious, but other psychological factors are just as important. Now let's do some nasty concerning the Allied misadventure in Russia. According to my knowledge, the armies moved on to qwell the Russian Revolution, and met the frozen north. > ObDG: has anyone considered a CoC/DG game where WW1 finished differently and > consequently the world is little different from own past - a bit like that > Chambers story (sorry I can't remember it's name but it's in the 'King in > Yellow' collection) where the Great War ends in 1920, and the US turns a > little weird. How does this differ from the current "incredibly weird?" ObKiY: There's a couple o' nutbars who struggle over the Crown of America. Now the American Throne is a Masonic type thang with Surreal tendencies. On my map, this Kingdom only covers the original thirteen colonies. Other areas are subordinate to sundry Royalty, mostly European, but many from nations that are unknown to earthly heralds. One thing is certain, all these petty Kings and royalty owe fealty to the one true Emperor of these United States. The empire has grown since Norton the First sat upon the invisible throne. His regency continues, and dreams of maintaining loyalty and honoring his Imperial Majesty's ideals. "He shed no blood, robbed no one, and despoiled no country, which is more than can be said for most fellows in the King line." The Man in Black is : continuing the Regency. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:05:09 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Alphonse pic In a message dated 9/8/99 1:49:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fhanke@jetnet.ch writes: << I uploaded a small part of a sketch of an image I'm doing for the Green Book. It shows Alphonse (Or at least how I think he looks like), reading >> Florian my man, I am amazed. The half-glasses, the button-down collar, the hairline, the wavy hair, the chin (that chin!)....that's what he looks like in my mind. Mark McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:39:39 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Nukes & odd uses for On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Graeme Price wrote: > (moderate) wave hitting in early in 1919. As to whether the pandemic > shortened the war, not sure about that. By September, things were wearing > pretty bad for the German forces with the armistice effective on November > 11th. My suspicion is that it hit both sides equally, and didn't have that > much of an effect on peace negotiations. The effect was that the flu was killing lots of people and fucking things up even worse than before. That pushed *every* fat-assed, top hat wearing, white glove masturbating, tuxedoed cocksucker toward the negotiating table. It was not a bargainging chip, and I never said that it was. The Man in Black is : fucking things up even worse than before. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:54:20 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: First Person Shooters On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Shane Ivey wrote: > Sounds like a drinking game, doesn't it? Someone drinks out of turn : Vomit inducing physical activity. > [A little buggy (it's just a beta) alpha : it doesn't work beta : it still doesn't work 1.0 : It'll work with a patch we've released in alpha The Man in Black is : patched. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:58:06 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB In a message dated 9/8/99 10:43:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: << Such is my enthusisasm about this True Public Service that, unless Daniel intends to use it for the Third Edition of the Encyclopedia Cthulhiana, I'd like to put it up in the Cave for everyone to see.>> And don't forget the useful tips section: 1) When the MiB puts on a dominance display, do not show fear. It stimulates him. It goes without saying that a stimulated MiB is a SAN shattering spectacle. 2) If the MiB charges, do not run. This will only expose your candy @$$, and that is not a good idea. 3) If you forgot Tip #2 and started running, keep doing so and pick up the pace a little. Head for offroad terrain and hope Black Mariah isn't set up as an ATV. 4) A really craven display of suckass submission will entertain the rest of the List, so keep it in mind as an option. The MiB will, however, make you his bitch. The List finds this entertaining as well. Here, try it out, see if it fits. "Thank you, sir. May I have another?" That wasn't so bad, was it? (you wuss) Mark McFadden and 5) Do not seek sanctuary in the Lizard Kingdom. In Our wisdom, We tend to think of the MiB as a Darwinian force, and We are content to let Nature take it's toll. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:00:38 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: > Jeff --wishes there were a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and > Women. Then he'd *really* have a career path. Secure the BATF EEO hiring officer position, and only hire bad ass chicks (or whatever personality type you prefer :) ******* (Officer Jeff) : "Sit on my lap and I'll give you the job." (Cassiopeia O'Reilly) : (Spin kicks him in the head) (Officer Jeff) : "You're hired." (whimper) The Man in Black is : glad to be of service. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > I'm suprised. But I have another theory for the higher number of fired > rounds or killed persons per soldier: Fired rounds from full auto obviously, but killed persons is much more complex. Psychological training geared toward killing makes a big difference, people from the western world don't want to kill. There are few exceptions to this rule. > I doubt that it's the use of human silhouettes. This is just a small component of psych training, which is a small component of the entire killing issue. > I think under battle conditions and therefore under stress, it is easier > to just empty you magazine towards the enemy than to follow the one shot > - one kill tactics, where you have to chose your victim, aim and fire. > But it's just a theory and I may be utterly wrong on that one. Neither of these tactics are very good. Losing fire discipline and hosing all your ammo ensures that you will fail to kill your enemy except by chance and then spend all your time reloading until you're an empty rifle and a dead marine. Then you will be in a world of shit because marines are not allowed to die without permission. OSOK is fine if you are fortified or sniping, or operating in a small special forces unit. But in a running battle (where you are running around) or if you are merely a moderately skilled marksman, it is ineffective. Years of expensive wargames/manuevers on proving grounds have shown this. Small bursts (3-5 rounds) is the most effective means for regular army units to kill the enemy. One shot might not kill except by blood loss, three is much more likely to knock you down and take you out. It also makes a medic's job much harder. The small burst is more accurate, and with more bullets flying through the air, it is also more likely to kill people near your target. Huddling together during combat is bad when the enemy is firing small accurate bursts, and not single shots (which are more dramatic and terrifying, but less effective). Finally, neither Small Bursts or OSOK are superior to the other. Like a hammer and a screwdriver, they are merely different tools and should be applied to different tactical situations. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:33:49 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: > IIRC, when the 16 was adopted, someone asked if the plastic butt > wouldn't be a handicap in close-quarters fighting. One of my goals in Basic was to break some M-16 plastic. I took a CCQ target with no target (only a traffic pole) and just whaled away to no avail. I was as buff as I've ever been by that time, but nary a crack. Maybe it was modern plastic. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:13:19 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB From: Phil A Posehn > I've forgotten. When the MIB submitted his character did he include San > loss for an encounter with him? Actually, he never submitted his character sheet--he was "otherwise occupied" (that Shan incident) when we had that little bout of collective brain fever. I would like to point out, however, that the MiB has already submitted something to put in the DGML FAQ entitled something like "Why is the MiB such an a$$?" IIRC. Full of self-deprecating humor and a thorough warning to all comers. Perhaps we ought to notify the newcomers (and the MiB) that we developed a policy whereby people new to the list introduce themselves by writing up a (realistic) CoC-standard character sheet of themselves, along with notes of how to use this character in one's game. Sheets are filed in the Ice Cave, where one can go shopping for DG Friendlies who are actually based on real people you can have conversations with. It's worked out quite well, IMHO--I've had listmembers show up in 2 games now, and actually knowing them a bit helps me flesh them out. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:53:11 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Warning on Snipers From: Eckhard Huelshoff > I'm suprised. But I have another theory for the higher number of fired rounds or > killed persons per soldier: I doubt that it's the use of human silhouettes. I > would rather see the reason in something else: Fully Automatic Weapons. And Fully Automatic Weapons that Don't Kick So Damn Hard. Firing a .30-06 hurts like hell if you don't do it just right, so people get scared to shoot it. Firing a .223 is FUN! Dave ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #59 *******************************