From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #62 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Saturday, September 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 062 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:28:43 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Basques Greetings. >Just out of curiosity, since I'm rather new here.... Welcome! >Has anyone posted anything about the Basques on this list? I am planning on >incorporating some that people's history. Given the linguistic history, the >genetic history and consistencies, and their socio-political histories, I >would think some of you fellas might have delved into it. Aaargh! Now nobody will be able to stop Mark for another weekend of Basque musings! Which means: yes, basques have been mentioned - repeatedly - but we are always happy (some more than others) to get new ideas. >If you know of any threads regarding this, I'd appreciate the guidance. Check the Ice Cave. You find the link in my sig. A "basque" input in the search engine should give you some starting points. >Also, aroundthe Roncesvalles environs, there is a rather large colony of >Basques who emigrated to Bakersfield, California durng the war. Many have >since returned to their homelands (and many residing in the same cluster of >towns) in recent times. Bakersfield of all places.... > >This may be an interesting lead. My friend, you don't know what you are putting yourself into .... ;> Later... Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: 10 Sep 99 16:16:02 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: RE: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration I'd like to make a few recommendations on 'Alternate History' novels for campaign inspiration. I have found that many of the SF novels of Keith Roberts are based on alternative Earth histories. All of this is being done whilst I'm at work so please excuse any errors. 'Pavane' is probably his best known novel. It is based on the premise that the Catholic church dramatically strengthened its grip on Europe after the Middle Ages and the Renaissance rather than losing it. Roberts details all kinds of weirdness resulting from the intertwining of religious and political power e.g. (1) the Church outlaws the use of concrete / cement as it could be used to quickly build fortifications outwith their control (2) scientific progress in general is hindered to the extent that the internal combustion engine has not been developed during the late 1960's. For enlightened people in modern times this is quite a scary book. I believe it caused some controversy when first published. 'Fimbulwinter' (?) is a short novella featuring the beginning of the downfall of the Third Reich after they have conquered Europe. I recall this one being rather fast-paced and dark at the same time. 'Kiteworld' is set in a post-holocaust Earth where human efforts are aimed at flying giant guardian kites to stop the invasion of sky demons (nuclear missiles), and the religion which has grown up around the post-war legends. It sounds really silly when explained like this but the intertwined stories are very disturbing. Roberts has also written other novels (The Grain Kings, The Inner Wheel, Machines and Men, The Chalk Giants, a weird one about invasion by extraterrestrial entities whose name escapes me) which are not necessarily alternative history pieces. Of these, 'The Inner Wheel' is good DG fodder, focussing on the evolution of psychic humans who each represent a part of a mental equivlent of a biological system (hands, eyes, brain etc) which is a much greater whole. Naturally, the appearance of such mutants (homo superior) results in government hysteria and violence. Whoda thunkit? Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:54:45 -0700 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Basques Not only have there been some discussions of Basques, there's a Basque on the list. At 09:46 AM 9/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >Just out of curiosity, since I'm rather new here.... > >Has anyone posted anything about the Basques on this list? >Also, aroundthe Roncesvalles environs, there is a rather large colony of >Basques who emigrated to Bakersfield, California durng the war. Many have >since returned to their homelands (and many residing in the same cluster of >towns) in recent times. Bakersfield of all places.... There were large-ish colonies of Basques in the Mountain Southwest as well. It seems that even today there are carvings on aspen trees in Colorado that were done by Basque shepards in C.19. Many people of Basque descent in Colorado are rediscovering their heritage --a not uncommon phenom among 2nd-3rd generations of immigrants. If one were willing to discard some of the wilder stuff about our favorite Leng-dwellers, an interesting campaign would be to have an agent who is an American of Tcho-Tcho descent (perhaps an orphan or adoptee). The agent would go looking for ancestral wisdom and find much more than s/he expected. . . Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:59:19 PDT From: "Adam Marler" Subject: Re: DG: Basques This reminded me of something that I heard in my Antrhopology class, when Louis Leaky (famous Antrhopologist, his wife found "Lucy") was visiting the area(California's Central Valley) the Antrho department of my college took him out to an early man site near Bakersfield. When Leaky got there he checked it out and said that the relics found there were extremely older than any other he had ever seen, shortly after Leaky had to leave and he never really talked about it again. At least thats what my teacher told me. Perhaps the Basque that moved to Bakersfield were visiting some ancestral stomping grounds? Hmmmm..... >Also, aroundthe Roncesvalles environs, there is a rather large >colony of >Basques who emigrated to Bakersfield, California durng the >war. Many have >since returned to their homelands (and many residing >in the same cluster >of towns) in recent times. Bakersfield of all >places.... >Majnun - ------------------------------------------------------------ __ Adam Marler (oO) "Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio" /||\ "Illegitimis Non Carborundum" T-Minus 15.193792102158E+9 years until the universe closes! - ------------------------------------------------------------ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:37:11 -0400 From: BRUCE BALLON Subject: DG: Unseen Masters - Reply Ben wrote: >Unseen Masters >Modern COC adventures against hidden powers 2384, $19.95 ISBN 1-56882-120-4 by Bruce Ballon Three mini-campaigns set in modern New York State lead modern investigators through serial murder investigations, madness, and into an ancient conflict between bitter rivals. Along the way investigators will be aided by Mysterious allies, face [the] Cult of the Scared Light and the Black Brotherhood, and confront immortal horrors beyond time and space. These three scenarios can be combined to form a NY state campaign. Can CO Ballon share any intel regarding this simulation, especially as material regarding the Black Brotherhood has been raised on this list a few times in the past? Thanks, Benjamin - ------------------------------ Howdy Ben and anyone else who is interested, All I can say is I wrote the scenarios about 9 months ago... and weirdly enough, although not intentionally designed for DG, they are highly adaptable to it. In fact, after reading countdown, I send Lynn Willis a small appendix for an optional adaption to DG (since some of the elements contradict DG lore)... They adapt well using many of the new elements in DG:CD the sections on Tiger Transit for sure... As for the Black Brotherhood, who I think is first mentioned in Robert Bloch's Strange Aeons, and then started popping in in various scenarios in one form or another, they are a bunch of bloodthirsty assassins who engage in international terrorist activities, promoting the Crawling Chaos' will in helping bring about the Return of the Great Old Ones. Oh yeah, you all get to finally meet the lovely Thalassa Chandler (Black Tie, please) Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:42:06 -0400 From: BRUCE BALLON Subject: DG: Unseen masters-2 Oh yeah, I noticed all the spelling errors of whoever put that stuff on the Chaosium Web Site. It is now corrected... (The Scared light is actually Sacred..although I suppose that would be an interesting cult of its own)... Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:51:04 -0500 (CDT) From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com Subject: DG: Short range shooting with a scope The sniping related info has been useful, so I have another related issue here. How much does having a scope (possibly a large and elaborate one) interfere with less than extreme long range sniping shooting? If a rifle has a scope that is optimized for function over very long distances, will it make more conventional shorter range combat shooting much more difficult? Any illuminating details appreciated, as always. Marco ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:46:21 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Short range shooting with a scope MSubias@ix.netcom.com schrieb: > The sniping related info has been useful, so I have another related issue > here. How much does > having a scope (possibly a large and elaborate one) interfere with less than > extreme long range > sniping shooting? If a rifle has a scope that is optimized for function over > very long distances, > will it make more conventional shorter range combat shooting much more > difficult? Any > illuminating details appreciated, as always. Hmmh, it depends on what you mean when you are talking of "shorter range". Personally I would consider a scope a helpful thing for every distance over 100 metres. In very close combat things look different, of course, since because of the lesser distances, you almost never have the time to aim in manner you are used to aim when using a scope. And when fighting at extremely close range -read: in buildings-, forget about your scope-bearing-rifle, take an SMG and a couple of hand grenades. Throw a grenade in every room you wish to enter, wait until after the explosion and then enter using autofire upon everything that survived the detonation. BTW: This is NOT a good tactic for hostage rescue mission ;-) ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:02:20 -0400 From: "McGloin, Michael" Subject: RE: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG > -----Original Message----- > From: The Man in Black [SMTP:mib@cyberspace.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 9:01 PM > To: Delta Green List > Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG [McGloin, Michael] 9999 Kenneth Scroggins wrote: "These are students, who would not be consulted for world shattering skill rolls with their below 50% abilities. A 90% Accountant would probably head up something like the Soros Mutual Fund, which requires a minimum investment of $250,000. These minimum investors can't even get an appointment with the people investing their money." Oddly enough the people heading up multi billion dollar funds are Wharton MBAs or Harvard Economists. These are not accounting people, but as I said before most RPGs make distinctions between some skills like land navigation and air sea navigation and make no provision for skills like finance or economics. Perhaps what I am missing here is some unspoken assumption that when dealing with the routine you double skill percentages. In this way a new CPA with a 50% accounting skill could do the year end close for their firm and not make a huge number of blunders. Remember with DG we are usually speaking of 10-15 year veterans not rookies. 9999 Kenneth Scroggins wrote: "Which means they are better than average soldiers in the soldiering job. Now, most soldiers are REMF, and wouldn't have professional levels in all the Smack-Down skills. Or any levels in those skills, beyond rifle quals." I am not sure but considering that even US Army non infantry basic training requires a recruit to get 24 hits out of 40 targets from 50 -300 yards away this would require the average solder to be at a least 40%, much less those that hawkeye the course getting 40 out 40. Now lets say you give them a big bonus. OK but what about the USMC where the ranges are out to 500 yards. I won't even go into how quickly the CoC mechanics fall apart. But that is ok for CoC where combat is generally outside of the genre and the characters abilities. On the other hand it is well within Delta Green's genre. If we are looking for a solution to these types of problems perhaps we would be best served b 9999 Kenneth Scroggins wrote: "Maintaining skills is part of every profession." Twenty hours a month spent firing a weapon is not maintaining a skill but perfecting it. For those who have perfected it is time spent keeping it on the razors edge. We are not talking about people firing at a target hoping to hit something . We are talking about shooters consistently hitting targets between there eyes with three shot bursts and keeping them in close 1-3 inch groups. Now I would say that there are other professions where similar levels of perfection are needed and demonstrated. > > 9999 Kenneth Scroggins wrote : > "This is why an average USMC Snipers ought to start out with much less than > 90% Rifle. They are good, but by no means legendary, or even earth > shattering. 60-70% is a much better range. Special Operations characters > are much more impressive than your average person, but only in their > profession." > > I think that within the US military the marksmanship of the average marine is highly respected. The fact that they select from their best candidates to attend the Marine Sniper School, nine week course at Quantico Virginia. All of these candidates have come from combat units, many from force recon. These soldiers are expected to get chest hit at 1000 yards. They are taught to calculate for wind, distance and trajectory as well compensate for oddities such as glass. They are also required to show expertise stalking, moving undetected to within feet of their instructors who are using binoculars to look for even the slightest movement. As of 1997 there were only 419 active duty marine snipers in the USMC. 9999 Kenneth Scroggins wrote : " High is a subjective term. Within the game system, you can only distribute > so many points amongst a character's skills. So a 60-70% in Sneak, Hide, > Knife, Throw, Pistol, Fist, Kick, and a 90% Rifle is not permissible > within the rules, or within the standard interpretation thereof. GURPS > Special Ops also fell into this category. 300-400 points can make Conan. > SEALS kick ass, but they ain't Conan the Barbarian. 300-400 points can > also purchase Microsoft several times over. 150-200 points works out much > better in GURPS Special Ops 2nd Edition." > I never mentioned knife, throw, fist, or kick. I think than that perhaps the generation system had in mind a different kind of character than DG does. The first edition CoC rules had an alternative system perhaps DG could use one as well. I like wise agree that Special Ops characters do not need 3-4 times the skill points needed. But the 1.5-2 times the number as used as the seems to indicate that the skills of are somewhat in excess of others, who in GURPS are generated using 100 points. 9999 Kenneth Scroggins wrote: " Yes, but devoted civilians can easily get to be better shots, The Honolulu > Police Department won the '97 tactical shooting competion here in Hawaii. > They didn't specifically practice for the event, and the whole idea to > late register came on the night before during heavy drinking. USMC snipers > were on the Marine team, but they lost to hungover cops. Not exactly the > most impressive 90% performance in the world. > > 90% is in no way standard training for any unit short of the Men in Black. > > It must be restricted to individuals who have trancended ordinary humanity > and entered into an area of the extraordinary. Such ability cannot be > gained by training, or experience, or enduring mental stubborness. It is > genius, the raw magic of adventure... Unless you go nuts and start > give=ing 110% type skills " > It sounds to me that the guys in Honolulu team must be some pretty god shooters. Maybe than stand before the Supreme Court and Belch. I would be interested to know if those cops were on the SWAT team and their backgrounds [McGloin, Michael] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:05:00 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: RE: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG << Perhaps what I am missing here is some unspoken assumption that when dealing with the routine you double skill percentages. In this way a new CPA with a 50% accounting skill could do the year end close for their firm and not make a huge number of blunders. Remember with DG we are usually speaking of 10-15 year veterans not rookies.>> That's exactly the method that I recommend. I always assume that the skill rating is the chance of doing something that would be almost impossible for someone without extensive training to accomplish. Thus, 50% and up are varying degrees of "expert" skill. In my games, you don't need a Drive Auto roll to drive fast without crashing; you need a Drive Auto roll to drive fast while evading a pursuing vehicle in the middle of traffic. As Hagbard McFadden would say, Your Mileage May Vary. (Hey Oaktree, you should add that to the FAQ as a DGML slogan.) The system will break down at some point, no matter what; should an "expert" marksman have a 90% chance of hitting a target that your average schmuck would hit 20% of the time? Well, of course, maybe even more than that. But even without interpreting that to mean you need 90% skill to be considered expert, an attentive Keeper can make it seem more realistic: have the untrained character make unaimed, rapid shots instead of normal aimed shots, for instance--that will knock that accuracy from 20% to 4% in one easy step*. Or just rule that characters who are not trained or experienced at real combat automatically get every skill knocked in half, but veterans don't have such a penalty. Or something. I'm being vague, here, because to me the bottom line as a Keeper is making the game run smoothly and believably (within the supernatural context, of course) in order to maximize the impact of the key events. There are many ways to do this; the exact method by which you tinker with the rules isn't as important, in my book, as deciding your basic philosophy and conveying it to the players so they can play the types of characters that they want to play. (I.e., if in your game a USMC Sniper should have 90% Rifle skill, make sure you tell that to the player who wants the FBI agent with the pistol skills of Agent Cooper or Corporal York.) ( * NOTE: I recommend this reaction for use in various NPCs, including those who may have a good deal of training, to simulate the crazed-assedness of a gun fight and the low hit ratio statistics of incidents studied in The Real World. When someone is trying to kill you, the natural tendency is not to take a breath, aim, and squeeze, but to put as much death-dealing lead into his vicinity in as short a time as possible. It takes discipline and guts to override that instinct. I won't recommend forcing players to do it, because players HATE being forced to do ANYTHING, and that includes me, so I can't blame them.) SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: the full cast of The Fellowship of the Ring Also "Geek Lovin" (our latest MP3), and the latest movie reviews! Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:41:39 -0700 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: RE: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG At 03:05 PM 9/10/99 -0500, you wrote: [much excellent stuff that I agree with snipped] >( * NOTE: I recommend this reaction for use in various NPCs, including >those who may have a good deal of training, to simulate the crazed-assedness >of a gun fight and the low hit ratio statistics of incidents studied in The >Real World. This brings to mind an incident I read about in the French-Algerian unpleasantness back in mid-century. A section of 5 French Paras chases an equivalent group of Algerian guerillas down an alley and up an enclosed stairway. At the top of this hall/stairway, the guerillas find a locked door. They turn just as the Paras come in, and all 10 guys empty their MAS-49s at each other --so say 300 rounds of SMG ammo fired. The result: 0 hits. Come to think of it, it was a similar situation that made a confirmed CoC-lover out of me: 3 investigators, 4 or so cultists, a warehouse. All empty revolvers at each other and are left standing looking bemused, not unlike the later _Pulp Fiction_ scene, completely unscathed. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:25:48 EDT From: Popeyesays@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration In a message dated 9/10/99 10:36:27 AM Central Daylight Time, pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk writes: << I'd like to make a few recommendations on 'Alternate History' novels for campaign inspiration. I have found that many of the SF novels of Keith Roberts are based on alternative Earth histories. All of this is being done whilst I'm at work so please excuse any errors. >> Any thoughts on the world depicted in "The Two Georges" by Richard Dreyfuss and Harry Turtledove. It has no fantasy or horror element in the book. However the setting of a world where George Washington and George III of England worked out their differences and the political map of the worl is strangely different is well worth examining for settings for war game campaigns or horror campaigns. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:40:26 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: The East Timor thing... On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 USFORREC1@aol.com wrote: > blip on the media horizon). Recently his unit deployed to sea. While this > was a normal, scheduled deployment, it does place his unit in a place to be > part of those contingency plans. It makes for excellent gunboat diplomacy. You tend to think twice about initiating those well planned atrocities if a tub full of angry salty-balled Marines is floating offshore. When you go to Bayfest '99 and see a whole lot more Marines than usually hang around Kaneohe Bay USMC Station it works even better. Great local music, E.K. Fernandez Rides and those wacky hydroplane boats gracefully accompany the USMC recruiters while making a ton of dough for MWR as well as promoting MWR's Hydrofest event down in Pearl Harbor. > Do I believe that we can very quickly become involved in a shooting war, > peacekeeping mission, combat evacuation of civilian personnel or > whatever? Yes. Indonesians have been killing each other since time immemorial. Muslim vs. native vs. Hindu vs. who knows what. I've been monitoring these events for a couple years now in the sparse Asia/Pacific column of the Honolulu Advertiser, and it's been building to a head. There was massive genocide in the 60's when my USAF daddy was listening to intercepts for the NSA. It looks like ythey're trying the same old crap. The international community will be more concerned with Indonesian genocides and instability since there is money involved, especially oil resources. Australia has major investments to protect (oil and otherwise). No one wants to see underwater communication cables to Asia that the NSA and GCHQ have gone to such lengths to compromise cut like so much beef tripe. It's not as bad as civil warfare on the European border, or warlords and piracy in the Red Sea, but the Indonesian situation has potential to goatfuck quite a bit. All this is no secret to Analysts/Professors in Asia/Pacific Sections in every Intelligence Agency/University on Earth. Let's face it, if I can follow the plot then Ph.D's with a few million bucks to spare should be able to write the damn thing. Plans for N.Korean invasion, China vs. Taiwan, India vs. Pakistan, Russian Civil War, Terrorist strikes on Waco and every other situation with roots in history are going to be leveraged and beveraged by the well-organized and endlessly repeated by the doomed. > I think the above would make a good setting. Don't make Indonesia (or > many of the new hot spots of the world) DG ops until after involvement has > already been initiated. Reports from ground troops is a little late (if Kewl). I prefer hearing about it from informants on the ground, or figuring it out by piecing together a vast amount of unrelated information. This is what the CIA and DIA do all day long, thay sit at desks and study crop reports, satellite imagery, NSA intercepts and sundry other minutiae until a plausible picture emerges. This is stamped TOP SECRET, reported up the chain of command and ends up filed in a big warehouse filled with musty termite ridden boxes never to be seen by anyone with decision making power, or by anyone else for that matter. Sometimes it's shredded. But if the watchful eye of Delta Green is reading over the shoulder, then some misplaced documentation occurs (this happens more frequently than you could possibly imagine). Informants on the ground are pressured, and the shooters are brought to bear. After this disaster, then the Report From the Field is sent in by the survivors. This may not make the slightest bit of difference to Agent LOOGIE, but I thought I'd chime in with some tradecraft. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:00:22 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Unknown Armies On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, David Farnell wrote: > I also liked the Magic rules, but only because I have long been planning to > run a game where magic was more available than normal in CoC. It's a little > like Mage, but being a mage is much cooler in UA, and much more frustrating > at the same time. Back when I was running Mage, magic was much cooler than in UA. These days Mage is a cartoonish parody of what it should be. UA is street level magic. Low-Powered and emaciated. In Mage, this aspect can be simulated by the sliding scale of Paradox. If you want Summon/Bind Black Helicopters, you can do it in Montana, but it sucks for Manhattan. If you want Black Limo Kidnapping, then it almost automatically succeeds in Manhattan, but smokes the Colossal Choad in Montana. UA is just a book for Orphans in Mage, a very good book, but not "Big-Picture" enough for me. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:00:11 -0400 From: "McGloin, Michael" Subject: RE: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG [McGloin, Michael] I prefer to assume that the skill percentages cover most skill check situations. In RQ and other games I have run using percentages I have treated routine uses a double chance, and if this brings the skill over a 100 than no roll is usaully not needed. Thus if your character was a pilot with 60% an uneventful flight might only need a check if you rolled 99-100 . At which point the skills rolls would become progressively more important and difficult. Thus you would go from an adjusted 100% to a 60%. In the case of extremely difficult the skill might be halved or quartered. Easy quadrupled Routine doubled Challenging Difficult halved Extreme quartered Thus with a 90% skill the breakdown would be as follows Easy 100+ or 360% Routine 100+ or 180% Challenging Difficult 45% Extreme 23% If used with a set of rules for specials and or criticals this would allow for a more interesting range of resolutions. For those of you using 50-60 as a range for experts it might make a good fit Michael McGloin > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:17:24 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Alphonse pic On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Florian R. Hanke wrote: > > Apologies, I'm busy calling Andrea. CO Florian, what was your address > > again? > > *Gulp* Err.._very_ recently I transferred to a small island in southern > Palumbia, why? I reserved some seats for you on a flight to Al-Amarja, we don't send ANDREA to Al-Amarja. Sit your Candy-@$$ in any one of them you like. Watch your back for Kergillians. > Btw, what's up with the minivan? Mr.Harms cruising the US in his ECII > mobile, preaching Mythos lore to the ignorant and unknowing masses? That came about when his Agents arrived at a location only to find that their lone vehicle was a rented minivan. Life is hard. Since then Danny-boy has devoted his life to the "minivan culture" here in America, even going so far as to have a sex-change operation in order to fully experience life as a "Soccer Mom." Mrs. Harms lives with her husband, whose occupation on their joint 1999 tax return is listed as "Roi de Reptilicus," in a three bedroom house in [redacted]. They have three happy children; Agent HUBBA, Agent HOODY, and Agent HOO. They play soccer every weekend, rain or shine. The Man in Black is : duly appt. Chair of the Al-Amarjan Tourism Board Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:50:08 -0700 From: Gil Trevizo Subject: Re: DG: Short range shooting with a scope At 08:46 PM 9/10/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hmmh, it depends on what you mean when you are talking of "shorter range". >Personally I would consider a scope a helpful thing for every distance over 100 >metres. But don't you have to adjust the scope for distance? I mean, if you have it set for 400 yds and then a target pops up at 100yds, don't you have to take a moment to recalibrate the thing? How long would that take in game terms? Does that action unnecessarily expose the shooter to enemy fire (having to sit there and calibrate on a certain point for a couple of seconds)? Obviously, I don't know. The only scoped rifle I've ever fired was an M1A1 (the match-grade M14 US Army snipers used to use), with what I was told was a genuine scope of the type used by US Army. This particular type of scope was said to recalibrate automatically, and it looked like it did just that. Never fired it much though - thing was huge and never learned to position right to keep the recoil manageable. >In very close combat things look different, of course, since because of the >lesser distances, you almost never have the time to aim in manner you are used to >aim when using a scope. Too true, which is why a lot of rifles after WW2 went to battle sights. The other kind of sights could be finely aimed for long-range shots, but the new battle sights with their open design were a lot easier to shot more instinctually for combat at closer ranges. From what I understand, battle sights are now pretty much standard for assault rifles and SMGs. Maybe there should be an accuracy modifier like in GURPS between rifles with battle sights or the old finer sights, with positive/negative modifiers for longer/shorter ranges with/without aiming. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:45:20 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: In Character (was: Re: DG: Public Service: The MiB) In a message dated 9/9/99 9:47:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: << I've decided to have Hagbard McFadden married to a Hill Martian princess, with several children who have varying numbers of fingers. (He finds her water hump strangely attractive.) >> Baby got hump -- know what I'm sayin'? "He's got Martian fever...." Mark McFadden Hail to the T'Kimboo, baby. Celebrate the Inkala. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:02:12 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Basques In a message dated 9/10/99 7:49:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, avaldivia@mail.utexas.edu writes: << Has anyone posted anything about the Basques on this list? I am planning on incorporating some that people's history. Given the linguistic history, the genetic history and consistencies, and their socio-political histories, I would think some of you fellas might have delved into it. >> The first thread pretty much iterated your points. The last thread finally got some info on the Cagot. A search at The Ice Cave only nets two messages. But try the archives at the DG. The last thread started at http://tiramisu.nocturne.org/dg-archives/9906/0989.html and added some new facts to the mix. Bakersfield, eh? Mark McFadden Has nothing new on the Basque front. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > Yes, this is a given. But I think you would have to concede that the fellow > who has the resources and time and mandate to expend a thousand rounds and > spend 20 hours a month on the range should be considered the elite of the > class of "all those that snipe." That is why they get 60-70%, as an Average rating for professional skills is 50%. > I'm not disagreeing with that analogy, but how would you go about assigning > stats to an IRS investigator with a CPA who is truly gifted at accountancy. > Can see the big picture and analyze the details, see trends, follow leads, > read between the lines and basically have a 90% chance of answering any > accountancy related question or, more to the point, uncovering any clue that > could be uncovered by an application of the Accountancy skill. This tax vulture would be better than a CPA who maintains a client list of small businesses, who would be a 50 percenter. He's probably along the level of a bright entrepreneurial MBA consultant who saves silicon valley corporation millions in undilbertization, who would be a 60-70% type. But to be 90% he would have to be the best Accountant the IRS has,either the commissioner or deputy commissoner. Someone with a 50% skill ought to be able to answer far more than 90% of accountancy related questions (at least the ones I might be able to formulate). I'll get nasty on ya and quote: "In general, a skill level of 50% is sufficient for a character to eke a living from it." - CoC 5.5 p60 Whether or not they can break or make the Bank of Credit and Commerce International is a whole 'nother story. > In his office, backed by his staff and wielding the resources of the firm, > the mutual funds executive shaker-'n-mover would certainly get 90%. That's exactly correct. Isn't that what I was saying all along, that you can't just spend 90 skill points without consideration of what it represents off the character sheet. That consideration could easily be broken by the Keeper. > His producing a correct answer or clue is due to a diligent staff or > some stratospheric access, but that's storytelling, not dice-rolling. The two should always, ALWAYS be inseparable. > so I have been in meetings with the real life counterparts of this > imaginary executive. I was underwhelmed by their grasp of cause and > effect and other basic concepts. But they looked marvelous. Not that I want to defend PHB's but how important was your crap? Was the money already spent? Were they there for other, possibly ulterior motives? Did they have any decision making power at all, or was that reserved for a higher level? Maybe it got delegated to these non-priority types cause others were busy with Accounting? [WTO and Federal Reserve Redacted] > Actually, these are examples of the Economics skill. At that stratospheric > level, Accountancy is a resource that they manage, not a skill that they > practice. But that is beside the point, the analogy is valid. Uh... sorry if I seem retarded here, but I can't find Economics in Call of Cthulhu. We must be thinking of something else, or the heretical blasphemy of Unofficial Rules (a damn good name for a 'Zine, must remember that...) > I think that depends on what the percentages are representing. You have been following this discussion right? Damn reptiles! That's what we're on about. > The model I use is: the possibility of accomplishing a task utilizing a > skill, in perfect conditions. So professionals in a skill (50%), will have only get 1/2 of 401k plans or tax returns properly filed? I think you need to loosen that up a great deal. Accountant rolls should only be called into play when it's Hard Core. Finding out that Bob the salesman is skimming a little off the top isn't worth a roll, and should be a given. Finding out that Bob the cocksucking industrial spy is embezzling corporate moneys to buy out stocks in corporate subsidies in an effort to drive down the home team's baseline is a die roll that matters! > We can safely assume that most of their training was done under > stressful conditions and inclement weather and tired and jittery and all > the fun stuff that's hard to reproduce on the weekend at the local range > or after work as a hobby. > In my model, if the task (in this case, hit a target) is possible AT ALL by > human hands, these guys have a 90% chance at doing it. What about 1/2 skill rolls? The most difficult tasks would be 45%. > I bet all the targets at the Olympics had pretty tight groupings. I'd > bet that the fella who placed absolutely last still hit the bullseye 90% > of the time. Their task was not to hit the target 90% of the time (that's a given) but to perform better than the other participants. I would think that a 90% shooter wouldn't bother with the olympics. If Larry Kramer, '68 Gold medalist, DSC holder, and NRO DELTA killer showed up at the '00 Buckshot Olympics to compete, shooting coaches would scurry away in fear. He would take aim and reveal the plentiful knife scars covering both arms, scars which obviously keep count of "something." Shooters may or may not recognize him, but they would never forget the day that they saw the man who never missed. Elderly judges would look at the single hole in the center of the target and remember the season in 1968 that a legend was born. > A 90% sniping skill will also have no effect on personal hygiene or > attractiveness to supermodels. Except the really kinky ones. The point was that a 90% skill should in no way be an "off the rack" skill for a Generic USMC Sniper. > Well, you've pretty well summed up why I'm not satisfied with the rules of > character generation as they stand. I also have no opinions on how to go > about improving them. Listen to the brilliant and only playable interpretation of myself and others. Skills are a representaion of total human knowledge or ability. A 50% character will not need to roll for many things that a 25% character will. A 70% character will not need to roll for things that a 50% character will. A 90% character will roll maybe 10% of the time. > Actually, I'm not the guy to talk to when it comes to tweaking the mechanics > of the dice rolling. Nope, my function is to stand over here and criticize > everyone else. Which has got to be easier than finding a system that > accurately models reality AND is playable. This is GURPS if you listen to me. It has rules for everything, but you can always just Roll vs. ST-3 instead of looking up the weight of a 50kw TL8 Drive Train. Storyteller and FUDGE are good seconds, there are many others. I like a system that allows me the most freedom and accuracy in character design, one that pins down everything. It must also be fast-moving during play, without cumbersome combat or other rules. Good example: Mi-Go Hyperdimensional Surgery tools might do 1d8 or 1d10 damage if used as a weapon (by Mi-Go) against 3D beings. But questions of armor and whatnot are neglected (I'd say 1d6 damage, no armor). This is all very fuzzy, with more ways to do it than crowns on a lizard. In GURPS everything is pinned down perfectly, if more complex. TL14 Medkit, doing th-1(0) impaling damage, 1d-1 max when used as a weapon. Hits to the torso are considered hits to the vitals (x3 damage), hits to the head are considered brain or eye hits (roll hi/lo), ignore the DR2 of the skull. Hits to the limbs are automatically crippling if they do sufficent damage. Roll vs. HT to see if the leg/arm/hand/foot is severed. For non-GURPS users that means it does thrust damage based on strength, minus one. GURPS only uses d6's. An average ST 10 Mi-Go will do 1d-2 thrust damage. So when BUZZ whips out it's Scalpel from Yuggoth and rips into you, it will do 1d-3 (0) impaling damage (minimum of one) multiplying all non-hyperdimensional armor (probably not force fields) by zero (that's the "0" in 1d-3(0)) effectively ignoring all armor. Rolls for crippling are generally conducted after combat in GURPS, but we'll roll for severing immediately cause all players must die. When paltry TL8 humans try to muck about with these implements of biology, they suffer the standard -5 per tech level penalty of anything to do with things of a higher technology. Thus Dr. Jenner must roll vs. his Medicine of 16 modified by -30, leaving the good doctor with an effective skill of - -14, only a critical success can allow him to perform the Blechectomy that will save BUZZ~!'s life. He rolls and gets a 5, which is just one short of the 3-4 required for a critical success. Since any roll more that ten above effective skill is a critical failure, this means that the Blechectomy is a critical failure. BUZZ~! is certain to die unless a human's thumbs can be placed on the wrong side of their hands within 24 hours. Immediately, Dr. Jenner scoops up the Mi-Go tools (doing 1d6 damage to his hands) and runs out screaming about "The Thumbs! The THUMBS~!" The Man in Black is : putting his hands behind his back. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #62 *******************************