From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #64 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Sunday, September 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 064 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:03:48 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: DG: Re: Basques From: Majnun > Also, aroundthe Roncesvalles environs, there is a rather large colony of > Basques who emigrated to Bakersfield, California durng the war. Many have > since returned to their homelands (and many residing in the same cluster of > towns) in recent times. Bakersfield of all places.... Is that anywhere near where those hippies were growing weed that got infected with something from the Cookbook and this got the Tcho-tchos growing black poppies mad...ah, I'm just getting confused. That was thread all the way before vacation. Help us out, Hagbard! But I gotta ask--what is with this list and Basques? They come up more than any nationality! Well, except for the French. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:03:10 -0400 From: "Brian M. Sammons" <105073.2452@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: DG: Information Request: Japanese Death Cult. Thanks everyone for the help in tracking down the Aum Shinrikyo cult. Now that I have a name, the hunt is so much easier. Thanks again, Brian. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:06:14 -0400 From: "Brian M. Sammons" <105073.2452@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: DG: Yhtill-Hastur >I can't remember the game, but one concept I took away to use again >another day was that every city had it's own "Animus Spirit." Would that be Kult? Or was Kult the game where all cities were based off of one grand design? Best, Brian. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:10:45 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Yhtill-Hastur In a message dated 9/11/99 9:10:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << I can't remember the game, but one concept I took away to use again another day was that every city had it's own "Animus Spirit." This is what I have now decided (thank's to this thread) to use as my official line. Yhtill is the tattered spirit of a city eaten by entropy and Carcosa. So like that wacked over quantum stuff, sometimes he's a city and sometimes he's a guy in a play in a palace. >> The Manitou was a rather unmemorable film except for the idea of everything, including man-made objects and systems, has a manitou. The manitou is like the essence of the object perceived as a personality. And at that level it has a personality appropriate to it's function. If I remember correctly, the evil manitou was defeated at the end by telling the manitou of the law enforcement network that a crime was in progress. But at another level of perception, a city or nation has a manitou as well. On the other hand, animus spirit pretty well defines a manitou. Mark McFadden Always polite to his car. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:03:02 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Information Request: Japanese Death Cult. From: Graeme Price > Definitely worth a read... especially the parts about the Aum cult not > being wholly dismantled. Perhaps our Man in Japan has some further insight > on this? Is that someone summoning me or Jay?--and I'll definitely check that out. When Graeme says an article is scary, it's usually REALLY scary. Yes, the AUM cult is not wholly dismantled in Japan--I think it may have been dismantled in Russia, though (maybe they've had to go into hiding with the Skoptsi). Japan's Public Security Investigation Agency (see DG:CD for more info--blatant plug) can, if given permission to go ahead by the Ministry of Justice, shut down and forcibly disband groups that are a danger to national security. That law, which dates back to the early 50s, has NEVER been invoked (according to a recent article in the Japan Times). Since the War, the Japanese government has been pretty darned careful not to repeat the follies of the Imperial Years (most of the time), so outlawing dangerous groups (even the Red Army) hasn't been done. Members who commit crimes will be arrested of course, but the group as a whole is left alone. IMHO, this is a generally admirable attitude, but then I'm an American. I think it's pretty easy to make an effective argument that the attitude can be taken too far. (Personally, every time those damn ultranationalist loudspeaker trucks go by, the old song "If I Had a Rocket Launcher" goes through my head.) There's a town with an AUM center here on Kyushu, I think, and they're in the news every few days with reports that they're building barriers around the AUM compound and such. It's a sticky situation--I don't think the people should have to live with members of a terrorist organization in their midst, but at the same time, most AUM members are innocent of any wrongdoing or knowledge of their leaders' plans. New religions in general are under suspicion these days--we've got a little temple of some pseudo-Buddhist splinter-sect near our house, and everyone's always talking about them. And I haven't seen in some time the guys who come up to you at the train station to shoot love beams through your head--I think they've gone to ground. (Harmless fellows--they hold their hand in front of your head and concentrate on sending beams of love through it.) More and more Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons these days, though (they're considered New Religions in Japan), and some of my (Christian) students have told me of a Pentecostal splinter group here in Fukuoka that's got some kind of brain-washing thing going, but I've got no independent info on that. I'm gonna check out that site "honey" refered to, too--I knew AUM was world-wide (particularly Russia and Australia), but I'd never heard of connections to a larger terrorist group. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:41:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > I agree with virtually all of your message, in spite of the heapin' helpin' > of smarm. Until I ran into this and a few other such references along the > same lines. Why thank you kindly. This thread has to die sometime, and it might as well be with me having the last word. If you need any more smarm, just send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to: 5536 25th Ave. NE Seattle, WA 98105-2415 USA > I was just wondering what experiences in the real world would lead you to > the conclusion that the best accountant the IRS has would automatically be > the commish or deputy? Nothing, I was just kissing up so those Laa Vegas winnings would be overlooked. > IOW, where you talking purely in gaming conventions and not implying a > connection to reality? In one case, it's probably not a bad rule of > thumb for playability. The other is arguable, but I'm just not in the > mood right now. It's probably politics more than accounting, if you were rolling to get the job, but I was looking at skills as the ability to accomplish accounting tasks as a character. If I made an Investigator named Charles O. Rossotti who just happened to work a day job as top vulture, I don't think there would be an Accounting task I couldn't get done. The roll might me interpreted as me putting together a taskforce to decipher the huge multinational Tynes-Cowans Corporation's rather cumbersome finances, or it could be interpreted as Rossotti calling John Tynes on an encrypted line to discuss his handing over of certain databases both real and imagined, or the treasury dept. might very well make a national issue over that ALPHONSE memorandum. It's amazing what calling up the FBI, the Justice Dept, the Secret Service, the IRS-CID and a few other numbers only folks like the Commish should have can do. Either way, it's likely that the commish has a pretty good chance at fixing the books. This is if you follow my philosophy of "you must have a good role-playing excuse before you even get a chance to touch the dice." Zero justification for skills and percentages, in play and during creation, encourages unrealistic characters who mostly spend points in specific skills. Everyone comes off the rack with Library Use, Spot Hidden, Persuade, Credit Rating, Medicine/First Aid, Psychology, and a combat skill and maybe a specialty like Archeology or Computer Use. It also makes gameplay a parody of roleplaying: "Professor Lang, what are these strange bones?" (rolls vs. his 40% Paleontology or Biology and fails) "I dunno." "Can you Identify them Mr. Price?" (rolls vs his biology of 44% and succeeds) "From the KFC logo, I can deduce that these are, in fact, chicken bones." "DAMN YOU COLONEL~! WE WILL HAVE JUSTICE!" I'll pause here to let everyone recover from that raucous bout of laughter... Anyhow, there are all sorts of trivial matters that should not require dice rolling. These matters should increase in number as skill level rises. What is child's play for HPL to write, requires significant effort from Kenneth Scroggins, and is virtually impossible for desperate men putting soiled and scrounged ideas on paper such as Marcia McFadden or John Tynes. Whether or not the 01% miracle should be allowed to such feckless hooligans is doubtful. Such are the ravages of that demon rum, Neer Beer (TM). Beware my fellow list members...the ruin of minds lays down that rocky path to self-destruction. > << Was the money already spent?>> > No, I was trying to persuade them to spend more money than they had budgeted > before the Millennium. Perhaps allocate a budget commensurate with it's > importance to the company's ability to continue doing business. AH-HAH! Accountants don't spend MORE money than they budgeted. Admit it, you were trying to make their heads explode like in that disgusting Scanners movie. Can't you just view internet pornography like the rest of us? > I think the CFO of the largest accounting firm in the world would resent > being referred to as a non-priority type. And that's who was sitting at the > head of the table. He sounds like a wuss to me. I dare him to come out to Hawaii and face me in head to head combat using the first person shooter of his choice. I blow my nose at him, that bed-wetting lover of hamsters. I fart on his granny, and all nose-picking, bean-counting, nit-picking, pointy-haired inflicters of quiet desperation like him. PTUI~! He will witness such digital carnage that his brain will be eaten by that butcher of the internet: General Protection Fault. Behold! I bring unto ye the Blue Screen of Death! (and you thought that only existed in Carcosa) > In any case, your post gave me much food for thought. I haven't shopped > around much with an eye towards stat systems. Given my druthers, I'd always > be a player. My mileage may vary, but I'll give this, what was it? GRRPS > thingie a look see. Until SJG went all Traveller, soft on the inside and Pear-shaped, I would have resented that. BTW, GURPS is a Point Based Skill System, Which is fine and dandy. But it was the down to earth, common sense based, Basic Rulebook that made me a believer. Sure, it's mechanistic in play if you use every last little tiny rule, as the man with the gun said, but Klaatu Barada Cough Cough Cough ain't going to raise the Army of Darkness if you smell what I'm cookin'. All this talk about BARPS has inspired me, I think I'll try it out for a while. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:23:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: Moscow Bombings On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, David Farnell wrote: > Don't have COUNTDOWN, but I like the idea that GRU-8 (?) Special Dept. Eight, whose acronym in Russian becomes GRU-SV8. > was taking out an entire apartment block infected with...something > nasty. Howzabout an Y'golonac virus? Break out the Santa Hats! It's Christmas in September! Ahem. Let's go over the possibilities. The Russian Govt., Dagestani or Chechen Rebels, Other Rebels, Foriegn Terrorists, NATO and/or USA, Eastern European NATO members (the turned Warsaw Pact), China, Russian Mafiya, Accidental or Mismanagement, that's the list of non-Mythos suspects. Now, why would anyone want to blow up a few Moscow apt. buildings? To cause trouble for Yeltsin's new admin while the old admin scurried away? To conceal evidence of some operation. To destroy an existing operation. As a warning to the new admin not to make waves. MYTHOS: An human attack on Ghouls might be interesting. Rent the movie "New Jack City" and watch how Wesley Snipes' gang dominates an apt. complex in NYC. This could be how a renegade group of ghouls operated in Moscow. Now, their tunnels are exposed for exploration by the unwary or for a counterattack by some Ghouls from the void. The various buildings would be linked by tunnels connecting cemetaries. Perhaps these tunnels would form some sort of rune or sigil. JAC: Just Another Cult, depending on whether or not the Keeper has a lame Cult laying around ready to go. Investigating who exterminated another boring cult might make for a pleasant change of pace from the usual scenario. It would be an espionage thang' instead of a five-oh thang'. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:25:43 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: FAQ: Andrea On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, David Farnell wrote: > To expand on Shane's description, ANDREA was perceived as a "cleaner"--word > derived from /La Femme Nikita/ It's a Mafia term too, according to Pulp Fiction. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:28:37 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Yhtill-Hastur On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Brian M. Sammons wrote: > Would that be Kult? Or was Kult the game where all cities were based off > of one grand design? Don't take this in a Brian "The most intolerant man on the list" Hill way, but: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT GAME IT CAME FROM~! Ahem. Now back to your regularly scheduled postings. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:32:22 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Yhtill-Hastur On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > The Manitou was a rather unmemorable film except for the idea of everything, Is that the one with Misquamacus? Nyuk-Nyuk-Nyuk. > If I remember correctly, the evil manitou was defeated at the end by telling > the manitou of the law enforcement network that a crime was in progress. That is the greatest plot device I have ever heard of. These Manitou people are brilliant geniuses. > But at another level of perception, a city or nation has a manitou as well. > On the other hand, animus spirit pretty well defines a manitou. I was just using that annoying New Agey terminology. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Information Request: Japanese Death Cult. On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, David Farnell wrote: > Is that someone summoning me or Jay?--and I'll definitely check that out. > When Graeme says an article is scary, it's usually REALLY scary. Yes, the > AUM cult is not wholly dismantled in Japan--I think it may have been > dismantled in Russia, Holy Macaroni! I just had a brilliant flash of Eureka. It's AUM that blew up all the Moscow Real Estate! Or maybe those apartments were AUM living quarters? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:36:06 +0200 From: "Fco. Javier Rubio" Subject: DG: Basques - Euskaldunak >Not only have there been some discussions of Basques, there's a Basque on >the list. ---Absolutely: Me, Myself and I :)- >At 09:46 AM 9/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Just out of curiosity, since I'm rather new here.... >> >>Has anyone posted anything about the Basques on this list? ---Besides some debates posted i remember uploading a couple of Basque Mythology's tales, as soon as i find where did i upload that i'll let you know. Oops, yesp, it was: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/9087/emindex.htm Of course, happy to help. Anyway, since that sadly remebered McGyver chapter where the Basques were depicted as poorly more than shepperds w/ 'txapela' (the traditional basque hat) and firearms... just the quote from Mr. Dean-Anderson himself: "these people who would not find any difference between an atomic scientist and a biologist" [sic, it seems the Basque nationalist terrorists (who actually hold a cesation of hostilities thanksfully) had kidnapped a biologer to force her to build an atomic bomb for 'em... :-/]. Any matter on culture, history, mythos or language will be answered as good, fast and thoroughtly as possible :) . ____________ This was... Fco. Javier Rubio And my signature's current recomendation is... 'Henry Bengoa Inventarium' by Bernardo Atxaga ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:13:47 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) Greetings. Florian wrote >During my military service, some trainer told me that a average >(brickstone) house can take >about three handgrenades until, well, ... no more house, you understand. >Unfortunatly I have no experience with any kind of granades, exept for >those smoking ones. >What can actually be done with hand grenades >Has hand-grenade related stuff ever been discussed on the list? > >I understand that this is not a forum for infantry combat tactics. Time for some military service reminiscences. Maybe you'll find some useful notion herein... Part of our Air Force training included the launch of 1 (one) hand grenade during a practical training session - hand grenade and assault rifle being the weapons of choice of the good Italian Airman. We were all pretty surpsised when the Sargeant Instructor presented us not with the traditional (?) ananas-shaped grenade we learned to love from movies, now with one of those nasty little round things Schwarzenegger generally used. No, we were given something that looked unromantically like a red Coke tin can half-wrapped in foil. The thing, they told us, was an aerostatic-operated percussion-primed defensive hand grenade. I still have the codes and technicalities in some manual buried deep somewhere. Anyway, here's the principle - the tin can is just that: two shells of metal containing a discreet quantity of explosives, a primer, and a weight (the percussor) balanced on a pretty sensitive spring and held in place by the tin foil thing, which is in turn held in place by the pin. The thing works this way - you pull the pin and throw the granade so that it follows a high parabolic arc. While it flies, the tin flap flips back due to air attrition, and liberates the percussor. As the granade hits the ground, the percussor slams on the primer and bang goes the bomb. Too straight a pitch might result in the bomb not going off. So we went in the field, and first practiced with blanks because, you see, throwing a live grenade in a high parabolic arc can result on the thing landing _too near_ to you. So, after a whole morning spent with duds, the great moment came and we all stepped up to position and did our part. Sort of. The first few hand granades did not go off. Sargeants and officer discuss the thing while a bomb disposal guy takes care of the duds, and the cause of the difficulties surfaces. The spring/percussor system is not working properly, as the bombs have been laying around in a depot for a few years (!) and are therefore past their prime (ho ho ho). But don't fear. In these hand granades, in fact, it is possible to fine-tune the percussor sensibility by simply partially unscrewing the two outer shells, so that the spring has more space to wiggle. Which makes walking with the thing a little dangerous but hey, this is the frigging Air Force, right? So, while the Bomb Disposal guy doctors the grenades (smelly cheroot dangling from his lips and all), the two commanding officers decide it's a fine spring afternoon after all, and so they set up a target for the Airmen to hit with the grenades. And at this point we all stand in line (about 200 of us, each carrying a doctored grenade and hoping this one will not end in grief) while a Sargeant that despite his strong Neapolitan accent and evident pauch still perceives himself as Lou Gossett Jr. screams insults at us. The bombs did go off all right. One in midair, actually. The target was generally missed, the bombs banging away short of the pile of junk, to the amusement of the officers. But the scary thing was when Airman Bidut - a six feet-odd architect and national baseball league star from the Trento area - decidedly pissed by the sarge's abuse, stepped up on the mound, as it where, and showed them all why his team had been Italian champion for three years running. His launch neatly cleared the target, and landed over 100 yards past it in a small thicket. The blast fell two large trees. We had been fooling around with enough explosives to make a second Tunguska in the Appennines. And here I stop. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:20:46 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) Good Afternoon. Davide Mana schrieb: [ Much interesting information and a lot of stuff that kind of fits in the clichés we love to have about the Italian army snipped ] > The blast fell two large trees. > We had been fooling around with enough explosives to make a second Tunguska > in the Appennines. Did I get you right that you were throwing grenades in open space, just on some field, without any protection???? We threw our grenades from inside a bunker with alway only the recruit and the sergeant inside the bunker. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:13:05 +0300 From: yanasikt@superonline.com (Tolga Yanasik) Subject: Re[2]: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) > Did I get you right that you were throwing grenades in open space, just on some > field, without any protection???? Of course, they do it without protection. This is the Mediteranian blood, you can't understand it. Here, we dig out anti personel mines with bare hands, give live mines to the newbies for inspectations. Some blew their hands off, but these are understandable casualties of the army, aren't they ? I haven't completed my military obligation yet, but those were the stories my friends told me. > We threw our grenades from inside a bunker with alway only the recruit and the > sergeant inside the bunker. > ECKHARD You, cowards :)) Tolga >from Istanbul. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:13:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Davide Mana wrote: > The thing, they told us, was an aerostatic-operated percussion-primed > defensive hand grenade. You poor bastards. > So we went in the field, and first practiced with blanks because, you see, > throwing a live grenade in a high parabolic arc can result on the thing > landing _too near_ to you. That's why three second fuses are usually best. It's not that hard to manufacture, really! I have to wonder sometimes. http://www.pacificcoast.net/~dlynn/index.htm is a fun grenade site, for all you lobbers out there. Now then, there are a few schools of thought regarding the man propelled bomb. First is the Major League Baseball school. This is a fine philosophy which dictates that hard round objects that explode should be hurled directly at targets. This requires great skill and practice, but impresses the ladies. The major disadvantage are those damned shortstops, who keep returning your pitches. Next is the National Football League school, or the Dallas Cowboy, Hail Mary, Roger Staubach, Jim Mcmahon, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway memorial, toss a spinning projectile with grace, athleticism and precision in order to blow shit up. This philosophy has the advantage of much better endzone dance celebrations than other schools. Finally, I'll illuminate the stick tossing, innocent tomboy, dog in the park school, which thinks that longish twirling bombs are the way to go. This is fine, and assures a firm grip, but cannot be used in close proximity to happy, healthy dogs. Many pet owning dynamite users have discovered this fact too late, with only their dismay to protect them. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:18:32 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > We threw our grenades from inside a bunker with alway only the recruit > and the sergeant inside the bunker. That sounds familiar. Although a blue concrete wall isn't much of a bunker (US Army paints practice grenades and other practice crap blue) I kept wondering if the SGT was going to push me onto the grenade if I dropped it. Adrenaline is my poison, along with these downers my Neurologist gives me. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:33:25 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Re: FAQ: Andrea Greetings. >> To expand on Shane's description, ANDREA was perceived as a "cleaner"--word >> derived from /La Femme Nikita/ > >It's a Mafia term too, according to Pulp Fiction. C'mon, Man, who are you trying to fool? Do you really want us to believe you think Pulp Fiction is a reliable source for anything? I mean.... Tarantino? Naaaah. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:27:34 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration Greetings. The MiB asked... >Anyone else have a good "theme" Investigator group to share? My old 1920s "Miskatonic Valley Jazz Band and Revue" was built along the lines of a theme group of investigators - they were all musicians and as a former University band, MVJB&R members all had some kind of specialist knowledge. Basically sparked by my interest in jazz, the concept allowed for a modicum of globetrotting, a wide variety of characters and situations, and replacing killed or institutionalized members was relatively easy... "Turn left at the next.... We've to pick the new 'bone at the Danfoth bus station" The storyline was fully developed, and we played a pair of introductory scenarios. Changing timetables and some player defections sadly killed the campaign. But one of these nights.... "Miskatonic Valley Jazz Band and Revue - the Anniversary Tour" [wishful thinking] Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:30:48 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) Greetings again >Davide Mana schrieb: >[ Much interesting information and a lot of stuff that kind of fits in the >clichés we love to have about the Italian army snipped ] One of these days I'll tell you about some of the cliches we have hereabouts about German Army. They are a bit dated, but .... ;> >Did I get you right that you were throwing grenades in open space, just on some >field, without any protection???? > >We threw our grenades from inside a bunker with alway only the recruit and the >sergeant inside the bunker. The only protection was a sandbags "wall" behind which to crouch in case the bomb fell too near anyway. The training area was a beautiful - from both landscape and geological POVs - - area owned by the government in the rural area of the central Appennines. And the MiB commented >You poor bastards. You should have seen the training film they screened for us _afterwards_. It was from 1962. If you want the real horror stories, I'll have to relate what two of my players (former Mountain Artillery and Armoured Infantry) told me. We in the Air Force were the lucky ones. But you can't get it if you come from a nation with a professional army. And from Tolga >Of course, they do it without protection. This is the Mediteranian >blood, you can't understand it. Stands to reason ;> Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:02:31 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Re: FAQ: Andrea On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Davide Mana wrote: > C'mon, Man, who are you trying to fool? > Do you really want us to believe you think Pulp Fiction is a reliable > source for anything? What? What!? > I mean.... Tarantino? > Naaaah. WHAT!? C'mon guys, what's the hideous secret here? QT's down. He's got the street cred. Don't make me go get the black helicopter! This is just like the time y'all dissed Waclaw Sierpinski. He's da man! He's money! Just look at the madly propagatin' gasket, baby: http://www.cs.appstate.edu/~hph/fractal/fractal1/sierp.html And as if that weren't enough, kick it with the vermiculation! A new Lovecraftian vocab word (at least for me). It's all about the fractals! http://www.cs.appstate.edu/~hph/fractal/fractal1/menger.html The Man in Black is : iterating (whoa! against convention!) Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:10:42 -0400 From: Bryan E Cole Subject: Re: DG: Information Request: Japanese Death Cult. On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:36:42 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black writes: > Holy Macaroni! I just had a brilliant flash of Eureka. It's AUM that > blew up all the Moscow Real Estate! Or maybe those apartments were AUM > living quarters? Nyet! Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet, Nyet! Zamolchuchye Kapitalistoo Robotnikoo!!! You obviously don't watch enough of our mass prodcued FCC-regulated media! Everyone says it "could be the Muslims", so please, try to keep up with the rest of the class.... Okay, everyone whip out your.....copy of DG:Countdown (WARNING, WARNING WILL SMITH!) POSSIBLE SPOILERS!! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * POSSIBLE SPOILERS!! OKAY, ITS NOBODIES FAULT BUT YOURS! I TOLD YOU I'D SHOOT, BUT YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE ME! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME?!? Any Delta Green operatives sent to the location should be on the lookout for possible Skoptsi connections or leads. Several churches in the area have cited that suspicious personnel have been seen canvassing their grounds, in particular, these persons seem to be eyeing the icons within the churches. On one occassion, local police were called to investigate a break in, nothing was taken, but the locked repository of the church had been ransacked, and several valuable, gold-plated icons left behind. It was marked up to vandalism, but as per our latest intelligence briefing (Document 1887797122, pp90-105), we believe that the intended target of the robbery were financial receipts stored within the church. The same day as the bombing in the mall in downtown Moscow, a burglar made his way into the home of noted theologist Doctor Cyril Fyeodorovitch, who had been attending lunch that day at the mall while attending a lecture at Moscow State University. The only thing missing from his collection was "a small wood painting, about 21cm by 33cm, it had some minor gold plating, but is very old and well-preserved. A very disturbing piece, with a picture of a monk and some smurred beast, probably an animal". We believe that the attack on the mall served two purposes, it distracted the local police long enough to delay any response if someone reported the break in, and it also gave the burgulars ample time to carefully sort through Docotr Fyeodorovitch's home for the painting. If the painting in question was a "black icon", then its location and retrieval should take top priority for all teams operating in the C.I.S. Please remember, we know very little about the Skoptsi at this point, especially with reference to the amount of support, funding, or capability of the organization within the confines of their "home territory". Proceed with caution. Those Case Officers handling teams would be advised to begin with a cursory examination of Doctor Fyeodorovitch's home, perhaps working to track down who planted the explosives in the mall, or where they came from. B (Soyuz Nerooshime Respooblic Svobodna) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:22:22 +1000 From: Rob Shankly Subject: DG: Interactive Submarine Greetings: CNN have posted an "interactive tour" of the USS Hawkbill, a 5,000-ton nuclear submarine. A CNN reporter accompanied the Hawbill on its final voyage, a trip to map the ocean floor beneath the Arctic Circle ice cap. A TV special is on CNN sometime tonight in the US (dunno when/where it will appear on CNN here or in other places outside the states). I'm sure you can all find some DG relevance for pictures of the inside of a survey sub. The reporter's journal also gives some nice background colour for anyone wanting to set a story in this environment. Enjoy: http://cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/ice.run/ipix2.html - -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au Send Australian peacekeepers to East Timor: NOW! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:53:18 +0900 From: "Noyes" Subject: RE: DG: Information Request: Japanese Death Cult. >Definitely worth a read... especially the parts about the Aum cult not being wholly dismantled. Perhaps our Man in Japan has some further insight on this? The Japanese gov.'s handling of Aum is interesting to say the least. Today's Japan Times had an article about how their trying outlaw any cult convicted (don't ask me how you convict a cult) of mass murder. Also, my an Aum sect is trying to set up shop in my wife's hometown, but the locals are fighting it tooth and toenail. Shops won't sell to Aum members, the school's refuse to accept Aum children, it's all pretty ugly. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Aum one bit. It's just interesting and frustrating to watch the Japanese chuck some of the basic tenents of their constitution over Aum. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:08:01 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: AW:DG: Short range shooting with a scope+grenades spoilers, I guess >Grenades(huge snip) Indirect fire, definetly. (in my militarily un-expirenced opinion). For the Big Bunch o' Guys (tm), a machine gun (or even 5-6 men with modern assault rifles) does as well, but it will not fire into the next room, or through the Gate or over the wall or into the next trench or any number of other placeswhere there are people waiting to kill you. On the other hand, incendiaries are good against several sorts of baddies not affected by bullets, and for burning down buildings. Agent Xavier Blowin' 'em up where it hurts (I think that sig has about died) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:08:04 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG I would have to say that the rules (generation) are perfectly good as it were. The problem is with the Mrine sniper. The rules were not designed for him. Try Rolemaster, or GURPS Black Ops for this. Although I've never used either, although the latter is on the horizon. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:08:07 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG In a message dated 11/9/99 1:12:37, mib@cyberspace.org writes: >But >to be 90% he would have to be the best Accountant the IRS has,either the >commissioner or deputy commissoner. Those are administrators. You don't really think Justin Kroft could kick Lepus's ass, do you? But he certainly is higher in the chain of command. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:18:23 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) _Small Arms of the World_ rates the handgrenade just below the bayonet as "Least lethal weapon in the infantry arsenal." The main issue is that the bursting charge should theoretically be small enough not to wing shrapnel back at the thrower. Hence the velocity of the shrapnel is generally low. Now, to be sure, at close range it'll perforate you pretty good, but the real value of the grenade is: 1) It doesn't give away your firing position; 2) Concussion/blinding the enemy before you step up to give him a mag of 9mm; 3) General supressive effect of explosions nearby. As the MIB pointed out, three grenades will thrash all the interior walls of a house, but will not collapse the building. I think perhaps people are influenced by Hollywood Grenades (TM), which go up in a visually pleasing petrochemical explosion with lotsa fire and black smoke and a studio sound effects library BOOM. In fact, the one grenade I saw set off left a puff of grey smoke and made an ugly sort of cracking noise (This at an illegal firing range out in the Mojave.) Perhaps some of the dwellers in nations with national service requirements would care to comment on how their grenades look/sound in action for better keeper description? I should also note that the beloved pineapple (the word you were looking for Davide) grenade was a extremely poor weapon. After WWII it was discovered that it almost never broke along the square indentations cast on the body. Instead, it broke into baseplate, fuse assembly, 2 or 3 large bits and hundreds of (harmless) tiny bits. The first 2 pieces would often be propelled *far further* than you could ever throw the thing, making it somewhat hazardous to the operator, and I believe modern grenades still suffer from this --hence the bunker/sandbag set up mentioned by several people. The "potato-masher" used by the Germans was no better, btw, being posessed of an unusually small bursting charge and fragmenting just as poorly. My goodness, what a lot about a martial subject from a harmless bookworm like, Jeff ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #64 *******************************