From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #65 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Sunday, September 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 065 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:21:54 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG:Conspiracy The only thing I dislike more than rudeness is intellectually and morally dubious slippery-slope arguments. Calling someone a "doody-head" doesn't lead to the Holocaust, and suggesting it does is rather repugnant, to my mind. Jeff, apostle of Holy Tolerance and Courtesy. Barry Hill wrote: > then the way is open to justify by that same cry of freedom ,the freedom > of the rapist to ravish his victim, of the Manson family to torture and > murder, of groups in the name of some religion to resort to mass murder > by the use of indescriminate bombing, or of governments to indulge in > genocide. > Lao-Tzu said; A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single > footstep. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:43:54 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration For my next campaign, I have a player doing a gee-dog undercover DEA agent (think Will Smith, but cooler). Typical quotes: "There's this new shit on the street. These asian muthas is sellin' it, call 'emselves th' White Shades or sumthin'." "Yeah! you put my homie's brain in a can, cut of my dog's nads, and get slime al ova' my place! You wan' a piece a' me!" [blazing away at Mi-Go with two glocks held sideways]. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:32:33 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Re: FAQ: Andrea >To expand on Shane's description, ANDREA was perceived as a "cleaner"--word >derived from /La Femme Nikita/--if you have not seen /La Femme Nikita/, then >you are not cool enough to be on this list. Run do not walk to the nearest >good video shop and rent it. Avoid the horrible American remake like the >plague. Anyway, so whenever someone seems to be "violating security" >(posting pictures of ALPHONSE, offering to reveal plot hints from upcoming >products, spouting bizarre theories that suggest we should all just give up >and start worshipping the Great Old Ones, etc), someone will threaten them >with ANDREA. The idea is, ANDREA visits you, and you are never heard from >again. Guys, guys... I'm telling you ANDREA _is_ Reggie (or do I mean that the other way around?). All this female assassin crap is just a smokescreen put up by Uncle Joe to keep us guessing! [note that I'm putting out such incautious observations because ANDREA is currently either in Switzerland or Japan dealing with various leakages... which should give me a few days to quietly disappear.... unless.... O-MiGo-D what if there's TWO of them??!] Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:48:04 -0400 From: becole@juno.com Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:18:23 -0400 Jeff Ewing writes: > Now, to be sure, at close range it'll perforate > you pretty good, but the real value of the grenade is: 1) It doesn't > give away your firing position; 2) Concussion/blinding the enemy before > you step up to give him a mag of 9mm; 3) General supressive effect of > explosions nearby. One thing to keep in mind about the Mk 2 and especially the German BR-5 (?) is that their primary function was to try to kill the enemy, something which they all apparently failed at (at least in general application). With the introduction of M-67, and the 5.56mm round to the armed services of the United States, the traditional doctrine of "shoot to kill" became replaced with the more economically minded policy of "shoot to wound". At least with U.S. Army TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command ?), the emphasis in warfare is to not only beat the enemy through annihilation, but to bring that "annihilation" about by affecting his war-fighting capability. This is highly reflected in the continued use of the 5.56mm round. The 5-5-6 likes to tumble, and tumbling bullets make for unhappy enemies. But here is the cool part, if the enemy survives that bullet (not uncommon, depending on location etc.) then it takes TWO more people to care for and relocate him to the rear. Guess what, I just "took out" three guys with one bullet. I don't have it officially written on paper, but the fact that grenades continued to be carried would certainly support this theory. A grenade can be a confusing, painful, and to those Rambos out there, annoying way to get a bleeder. For the real people, this means running and screaming until a corpsman (medic) can get the hot shit out of your body. Bam, for every wounded person, I get two additional "kills". This is something to keep in mind when your players or those cultists get hit by gunfire. I cannot recommend Palladium's Weapons Compendium highly enough(the modern one, with the "militia" guy on the front holding two assault weapons) for a good description of different bullets and their effects on the human body. Another interesting option is the Emergency War Surgery book by the US Army, but it is a bit dry. Palladium's "rules" are, of course, general guidelines, but I agree with the list-in-general that a firefight should NEVER be a "ho-hum" thing. Players or NPCs that get hit while in gunplay, barring unusual circumstances ("high", surgical alteration, etc) WILL need medical attention. I have never been shot, but the one time I had a serious RW injury (nearly cut a finger off) I took one look at it, then proceeded to go "pale", as one observer put it, then went straight to my car with the MANUAL transmission. Luckily, someone stopped me and got me to ride with them to the hospital. Needless to say, I wasn't thinking clearly, and only later, while getting sutured, did I realize exactly what happened. (That damn finger is still crooked to this day) My hand shook for weeks afterward, especially if I tried to lift something over a pound. In that regard, I think everyone needs to think seriously about how they will interpret the rules-as-listed concerning healing, gunplay, etcetera. I typically try to discourage gunplay in gaming, depeding on game style, system and so forth, but Delta Green especially (and you damn Gun Fondlers (tm)) seems to promote it, which leaves the quandry of how best to get it through a thick player's head that leaping over a wall is more painful than just a half DEX check on 4d6 after being shot? The only plow I know of : "Imagine a hot, speeding lump of metal going through your flesh at supersonic speed the next time you howl about slamming a finger, stubbing a toe, or getting a paper cut / shaving cut." -B (Investing "life savings" in Kevlar) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:08:27 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) Jeff Ewing schrieb: [snip] In fact, the one grenade > I saw set off left a puff of grey smoke and made an ugly sort of > cracking noise (This at an illegal firing range out in the Mojave.) > Perhaps some of the dwellers in nations with national service > requirements would care to comment on how their grenades look/sound in > action for better keeper description? Pretty good description. I have to admit though that I never took a long and relaxed glance at the detonation. I found throwing a grenade a very stressful, unpleasant even kind of frightening experience, especially since I am not very good in throwing things. Therefore I had the tendency to throw the nasty little thing out of the bunker and then duck behind the concrete walls, hoping it landed more than 15ft away from me, sometimes peeking at the result. But the most annoying thing, that you describe very well, is the noise that I found pretty disturbing. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:08:27 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration Appelion@aol.com schrieb: > [blazing away at Mi-Go with two glocks held sideways]. Sorry, but having to watch weapons being fired in a strange manner or wrong angle in nearly every action movie, really pisses me off. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:54:18 -0700 From: Gil Trevizo Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) At 01:48 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > One thing to keep in mind about the Mk 2 and especially the German >BR-5 (?) is that their primary function was to try to kill the enemy, >something which they all apparently failed at (at least in general >application). With the introduction of M-67, and the 5.56mm round to >the armed services of the United States, the traditional doctrine of >"shoot to kill" became replaced with the more economically minded policy >of "shoot to wound". Umm.... isn't that the other way around? Back in the good ol' days when everyone was issuing 7.62mm or the like, the idea was to wound, and a round like the 7.62 was perfect for making relatively small neat holes in people that wouldn't necessarily kill them (at least not then and there) but would make them a problem that had to be taken care of by their comrades. That's probably why all those rules about having no nifty ammo like dum-dums were generally accepted back then - the generals didn't want dead enemy soldiers but wounded ones. >At least with U.S. Army TRADOC (Training and >Doctrine Command ?), the emphasis in warfare is to not only beat the >enemy through annihilation, but to bring that "annihilation" about by >affecting his war-fighting capability. This is highly reflected in the >continued use of the 5.56mm round. The 5-5-6 likes to tumble, and >tumbling bullets make for unhappy enemies. Very unhappy enemies. And if all works right, very dead enemies - wasn't the 5.56mm designed to put folks down and keep them there? The tumbling 5.56mm was supposed to make much more horrendous and deadly wounds that any crisp clean 7.62mm could make. Remember, that round was brought in with the whole new emphasis on body count and the lessons learned from SLA Marshall's Men at War - that in WW2, only the LT and the sarge were really killing folks with their SMGs and carbines, so let's hand out a light full-auto rifle (M-16) and really fill up those cemetaries, but just with enemy soldiers of course.... My Lai, here we come. >But here is the cool part, if >the enemy survives that bullet (not uncommon, depending on location etc.) >then it takes TWO more people to care for and relocate him to the rear. >Guess what, I just "took out" three guys with one bullet. The generals didn't need to annihilate the enemy's warmaking ability like this anymore. Total war was so passe - with the new "limited war" and the whole "war is business so run it like business" McNamara mentality of the early '60s, they needed statistics - body count - to make neat-looking presentations and flowcharts that showed they was winning that little police action downtown. This is yet another reason why 'Nam is so rife with DG possibilities: ghouls would've been breaking out the all-you-can-eat buffet, what with MAC-V back in Saigon screaming to their boys in the field to bring them an ever-escalating body count so they could hold their press conferences and show they were kicking VC ass, little things like Dak To, Khe Sahn, the Tet Offensive, etc. notwithstanding. Add that a lot of that body count was fudged, both by officers to show they were doing their job, and, more interestingly, by grunts in the field who just *could not find the bodies* when the firefight was over. Throw in all those tunnels around Cu Chi (and everywhere else), and you've got ghoul heaven. Makes one wonder why no one ever takes their eyes off the Tcho-Tcho to see the other possibilities.... BTW, that old "tumble" 5.56mm has been scrapped I think, and replaced with a round with more traditional physics... so maybe the US Armed Forces doctrine has returned to the old mindset of wound not kill. > This is something to keep in mind when your players or those cultists >get hit by gunfire. Yup, someone with First Aid is always nice to have within one-round's distance when those cultists put your PC's HP less than zero. 'Course I'd also like to see some kind of bleeding/shock rules that have a constant drop in HP if a seriously wounded character does not recieve immediate medical attention, ultimately leading to zero HP and character death. But's that's why they put the "house" in house rules. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:35:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jay W. Dugger" Subject: Re: DG: Yhtill-Hastur On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Brian M. Sammons wrote: > > >I can't remember the game, but one concept I took away to use again > >another day was that every city had it's own "Animus Spirit." > > Would that be Kult? Or was Kult the game where all cities were based off > of one grand design? [snip] The idea of a single archetypical city occurs in Kult, where all cities overlay the city-hell Metropolis; in Amber, where all cities exist as variations on the only real city in the only real world; and in Moorcock's fiction, where Tanelorn is a city extant (in some sense) in all possible dimensions. The idea of city's animus spirit exists in White Wolf Studio's World of Darkness products, esp. Werewolf: The Apocalypse. The animist worldview of werewolves produces the spirit of a city. For example, Chicago's spirit is (predictably) broad-shouldered. --------- Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel til_e@hotmail.com : duggerj@reed.edu - --------- Sometimes the delete key is your best friend. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:35:48 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: Re: DG: Information Request: Japanese Death Cult. Aside from the sarin gas attack, Aum was also implicated in the alleged testing of a scalar wave weapon in the Australian outback - basically a device to trigger earthquakes. One of several articles on the cult can be found here: http://204.140.166.251/Articles/Guyatt/AumII.html In summary, in 1995 there was an odd earthquake in a siesmically stable area of Australia. A British geologist who investigated bumped into some journalists on the trail of Aum - the cult had bought a sheep farm in the area in '93. Anyhow, after many jolly japes it transpired their chief boffin had been seen knocking around the area with a laptop, apparently carrying out some kind of study shortly before the tremor. The cult also has strong links in Russia, and has been extremely interested in the work of Nikolai Tesla. tesla's `howitzer' could theoretically cause quakes. And Asahara, Aum's leader, did claim to have predicted the Kobe earthquake, sooooooo... Anyhow, it's all in the article. On a related note, there was a piece in the Fortean Times after the sarin gas attack which suggested that it may have been the work of another, more underground `death cult' in Japan. The suggestion was that they had been worried about Aum's growing popularity, so they set them up for a big fall. I can't remember the name of the other cult - perhaps it strikes a cord with someone else? Jonathan Turner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:07:58 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: It's Up!! Greetings. It's been a long and hot weekend but we've done it. The Ice Cave First Anniversary Update is up and running, and about 12 hours before scedule. We've got 22 new files, hauled up from the archives and covering some of the more massive and esotheric discussion that plag... sorry, involved listmembers in the past year. This brings the total files present in the Cave to 142, and the site to 7-odd Megas. Not bad. Just to show newbies that we are _N O T_ a bunch of old have-beens that can only sit under the porch forever splitting hairs about what stats number to crunch next (make it double/no, use a specific one/GURPS' better... LOL!), we're offering, straight from the past a cold slice of sharp, stats-free reality: . Philosopy . Neurosciences . Computer Viruses . Lovecraft's books . a New Gun Digest . The King in Yellow . God (yes, Him!) Tcho-tchos are once again the stars of the show, with a file covering their ties with the Basques (and just everybody else), plus the dreaded Tcho-Fu School discussion and dissection. Meeting a gruesome end in DG is now a little easier. And fun. For the entertainment and edification of mr. Peter Devlin, a first volume on fabled Leng is now available in the Cave. :-) And then there's all the rest... At Your Door, aliens, vampires, air crashes, the French Foreign Legion, the Albino Fleabag vs Steve Jackson, Group 13... The ICE CAVE F.A.Q.! And just for the hell of it we updated a few old files (including the DGML NPC Depot.) and all relevant .zips, added a whole new wing in Containment, scattered a few tasteful Java animations here and there to screw your browsers, placed a copy of the character sheet .pdf on the premises to avoid future broken links and added a Guestbook (so now you can scrawl something on the walls of the Cave). A full mega of new stuff. What else do you want? Blood? There's a file on blood transfusions and transplants, too, yes. So get there, take a look around, report (please, thanks) any bug and have a nice day! My thanks to and all listmembers for their patience, input and collaboration, and expecially to all that submitted their NPC templates on a minimum notice. [where's yours, MiB? You want me to go with that skimpy little thingie you posted last week? C'mon, you're better than that!] And thanks to HK popstar Gigi Leung, that provided an essential bit of software saving the day (don't ask). So I can finally collapse on a chair and try to put together the Green Book entry that's due in two weeks time. Next Cave update (fiction, tradecraft and a lot more) in more or less 30 days. Cheers! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:12:58 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: DG: Re: City Animus Spirits, or How to Make the MiB Stroke Out At 12:35 PM -0700 9/12/99, Jay W. Dugger wrote: > > The idea of city's animus spirit exists in White Wolf Studio's >World of Darkness products, esp. Werewolf: The Apocalypse. The animist >worldview of werewolves produces the spirit of a city. For example, >Chicago's spirit is (predictably) broad-shouldered. Also NIGHTLIFE, from Stellar Games, had city elementals, in fact every district of New York had an elemental. And come to think of it, a Secret Government Organization (TM) which alternated between wiping out supernatural beings and driving hard bargains with them ("Do this one thing for us and we won't slaughter your entire community"). Tying in with the Lizard King's 'dueling paradigms' theme, one could imagine groups fighting to prevent a region from gaining an animate spirit, or struggling to influence the spirit in their favor. Wanna bet that ghouls' version of NYC is a lot different from Delta Green's? Recommended reading: John Shirley, CITY COME-A-WALKIN'; Fritz Leiber, OUR LADY OF DARKNESS; various short stories by Christopher Fowler; Harlan Ellison, "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs," from DEATHBIRD STORIES. Steven - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "In short, we did all we could to stimulate an official discovery of the ghastly wreck, without making reference to incredible manifestations, or to humane but illegal acts of euthanasia." -- Michael Shea, The Colour Out of Time ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:29:48 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) Cheers! Jeff wrote >I should also note that the beloved pineapple (the word you were looking >for Davide) grenade was a extremely poor weapon. Pineapple! In Italian "ananas". Which suggests a neat little piece of tradecraft - what can really screw your passing yourself for a foreign national is not pronunciation, it's exotic fruit. Sorry for the sillyness, and thanks for the correction. Be seeing you. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:48:47 +0200 From: Shoggoth Subject: Re: DG: It's Up!! On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, you wrote: > > The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm Goooooood Work! ... Highly recommendable - -- Tan solo la carcajada de un hombre sin miedo puede herir a la muerte ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:34:46 -0400 From: becole@juno.com Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:54:18 -0700 Gil Trevizo writes: > Umm.... isn't that the other way around? Back in the good ol' days > when everyone was issuing 7.62mm or the like, the idea was to wound, and > a round like the 7.62 was perfect for making relatively small neat holes in > people that wouldn't necessarily kill them (at least not then and there) > but would make them a problem that had to be taken care of by their comrades. Nah, I got this one straight from the horses mouth. Kills are fine (when are they not?), but wounding is SO much better. At least, that's what my man on the inside says. > Very unhappy enemies. And if all works right, very dead enemies - > wasn't the 5.56mm designed to put folks down and keep them there? The > tumbling 5.56mm was supposed to make much more horrendous and deadly wounds > that any crisp clean 7.62mm could make. I have never heard of a round that wasn't designed to "kill", but, in this case I think that the results of Vietnam were very evident in that they showed how often "blind" or "panic" fire occurs...eliminating any aiming, and the fact that a battlefield fatality typically results due to LACK OF TREATMENT! A field that I think everyone agrees is necessary. Vietnam paved the way for this as well with the refinement of the medical-evacuation (medevac to any newbies). The Cong had us from the get because they left that Play-War bullshit to the NVA. Let's just be glad that the United States helped kill Che before he paid Uncle Ho a serious visit. > early '60s, they needed statistics - body count - to make > neat-looking presentations and flowcharts that showed they was winning that > little police action downtown. Exactly. But in the late 1970s everyone at TRADOC sat down and said "How did Vietnam get so f#$ked up? What followed thereafter was the initiation of the New and Improved Army (tm) that led to such wonderful creations as the "Jedi Knights". There is an excellent book by Gen. Fred Franks about this very change. It was co-written by Tom Clancy (the title is Into the Storm) and gives a good idea of the turmoil that people who really cared about the U.S. Army were in right after 'Nam. Needless to say, the changes that occured have spawned the Rapid-Response mindset utilizing less men to accomplish the same goals (Amazing that they knew their budget was going to be on the chopping block, isn't it?) Cav units are the ones who are being primed to fill this role, and are mobile enough to fit the bill. So, getting back to DG, if I had to choose a unit to pick a friendly from, I would consider a MOS 11-D(elta), a Cav trooper. The cross-training is monstrous, they don't have that psycho-beaten-in-to-me-must-win-and-kill-and-eat-red-meat mentality that Spec. Ops. tends to get, and they are used to travelling with what they need for a lengthy stay. They might actually Be ABLE to behave non-militarily . Although, in all fairness to the boys in SO, I am sure for every hardliner there is a What-The-F#$K soldier, and, as it follows, I am equally sure that they are just as mean and nasty. -B ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:29:12 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration >But one of these nights.... >"Miskatonic Valley Jazz Band and Revue - the Anniversary Tour" >[wishful thinking] > Davide, Please get with me sometime off-list. I'd love to hear more about these guys. I'm a music guy myself (jazz, blues, whatever - I'm kind of easy that way). Though, they sound faintly of the Hong Kong Cavaliers, Buckaroo Banzai's team of cohorts. :-) - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:01:24 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration In a message dated 12/9/99 10:10:43, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: >> [blazing away at Mi-Go with two glocks held sideways]. > > > >Sorry, but having to watch weapons being fired in a strange manner or wrong >angle > >in nearly every action movie, really pisses me off. > > > >ECKHARD > > That's the point. He's not a particularly good shot, but he has got some attitude. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:30:36 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Yhtill-Hastur From: Brian M. Sammons <105073.2452@compuserve.com> > Would that be Kult? Or was Kult the game where all cities were based off > of one grand design? In Kult, all cities were a reflection of The City (Metropolis)--and humans build cities because they're always trying to get back to Metropolis, their true home. Which has, ever since reading Kult, been my conception of Carcosa. I use the idea that the Kn-Yannis (perhaps the original humans) come from Carcosa, and we are descended from them after genetic manipulation by the Mi-Go or someone else. So some of us dream of reclaiming our heritage, while others (seduced by the sweet promises of Shub-Niggurath) turn away from the past and embrace the wilderness. This of course turns the normal ideas of evolution and the rise of civilization on their heads. Yhtill? Never really thought much about it. Stick 'em all in the Dreamlands and have them be neighbors, maybe. I really like a lot of the "sometimes a city, sometimes a person" ideas. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:26:24 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > Pretty good description. I have to admit though that I never took a long and > relaxed glance at the detonation. Oh, believe me, I was a long way away from the survivalist lunatic with the hand grendade (although "range safety" prevented me describing him as such to his face). If I had known at the time about the fact that the fuse assembly tends to fly as far as it does, I would have been even farther! Jeff --wonders how he made it through his teens and early 20s sometimes. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:50:40 -0400 From: "Andrew D. Gable" Subject: DG: Re: Basques - Euskaldunak > ---Besides some debates posted i remember uploading a >couple of Basque Mythology's tales, as soon as i find where did i upload that i'll let you know. Oops, yesp, it was: > >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/9087/emindex.htm Hmm. Basques certainly have a culture all their own, don't they? I caught snippets of Christianity and Greek mythology therein, all with a unique twist. I really like the "Mari" figure -- of course, it's reminiscent of the Christian Mary, but the whole thing about living in caves reminds of the Fatima apparition, and the mention that Mari "turns into balls of fire" to move around hearkens back to the theory that UFOs and BVM sighting are connected somehow. BTW, Bernard Heuvelmans mentions the "Basajaun" as a type of European Bigfoot (he also mentions another Pyrenees monster called "Iretges." Both Iretges and Basajaun were reportedly seen up until 1774). Another thing is the mention of the hoofed feet -- the Basajaun is probably derived from the same source as the Satyr. After connecting Basajaun & Satyrs, it's only a small leap to make a further connection to Pan. In one of our discussions a while back, we mentioned that Chaugnar Faugn may have been the basis for Pan -- and where did Chaugnar Faugn originally dwell, eh? Another idea's floating around in my head about the mention (somewhere) that the Men of Leng maight be dream-selves of Voormis or Tcho-Tcho -- either of which can be easily fit into the Basque region. Andrew D. Gable gable@redrose.net "'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes." My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult, "Nervous Xians" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:23:32 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: RE: It's Up!! Outstanding, Davide! Folks, give this under appreciated gent's ego a boost with a well-deserved round of applause! SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: the full cast of The Fellowship of the Ring Also "Geek Lovin" (our latest MP3), and the latest movie reviews! Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Davide Mana Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:08 PM To: deltagreen@nocturne.org Subject: DG: It's Up!! Greetings. It's been a long and hot weekend but we've done it. The Ice Cave First Anniversary Update is up and running, and about 12 hours before scedule. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:43:38 +1200 From: Williamson Mark Subject: RE: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration I had an 1890s group who where all members of the Samuel Forbes Foundation for Paranormal Research. Basicly it was an organsiation set up by the right honorable Samual Forbes (shortly before he disappeared in the North Sea) to investigate scientific applications of the supernatural, in that wonderful Victorian way of "I say, if think of the possibilities if we can just understand it." The foundation was a fanstastic vehicle to introduce investgators in high body count Victorian adventures. In a "We don't seem to have heard anything from Jenkin's group in Africa for some time, Walter why don't you take some people down there and see what is happening" sort of way. And it also provided a great source of NPCs, eg. later in the 1920s a group of invesgators on government buisness in a small town called Innsmouth happened to find a man in a sleeping chamber, the name on the chamber, Samuel Forbes (cue music). When they same players played in both compaigns it provides a great sense of continuity. Of course the best 'theme' group was the Theron Marks (sp?) society. Does anyone have a copy of their field guide for investigators? - -Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Davide Mana [SMTP:doctor.dee@iol.it] > Sent: Sunday, 12 September 1999 11:28 pm > To: Delta Green List > Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration > > Greetings. > > The MiB asked... > > >Anyone else have a good "theme" Investigator group to share? > > My old 1920s "Miskatonic Valley Jazz Band and Revue" was built along the > lines of a theme group of investigators - they were all musicians and as a > former University band, MVJB&R members all had some kind of specialist > knowledge. > Basically sparked by my interest in jazz, the concept allowed for a > modicum > of globetrotting, a wide variety of characters and situations, and > replacing killed or institutionalized members was relatively easy... > "Turn left at the next.... We've to pick the new 'bone at the Danfoth bus > station" > > The storyline was fully developed, and we played a pair of introductory > scenarios. > Changing timetables and some player defections sadly killed the campaign. > > But one of these nights.... > "Miskatonic Valley Jazz Band and Revue - the Anniversary Tour" > [wishful thinking] > > > Davide Mana > Torino, Italy > doctor.dee@iol.it > The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:20:40 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: DG: Bring on the pain In a message dated 9/12/99 11:00:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, becole@juno.com writes: << The only plow I know of : "Imagine a hot, speeding lump of metal going through your flesh at supersonic speed the next time you howl about slamming a finger, stubbing a toe, or getting a paper cut / shaving cut.">> New thread: tales of pain. You bring up a good point; not many of us have experienced massive trauma. But then, the average person can count the times they've had adrenaline kick in at emergency levels on one hand. I'm not talking roller coaster high, but the altered state of consciousness followed by nausea. Some examples from real life: When I was a preschooler in Naples, I was playing with the other kids at the top of my lungs and running like a damn fool and slipped in the mud in a vegetable patch. I fell on a stake supporting some new tomato plants. It caught me right under my right eyebrow, struck right on the edge of the eyesocket and slid under the skin of my forehead. I must have made my Luck roll, since it didn't plunge through my eye and into my brain. I had to break the stake off so I could run to Mommy, who had been a student nurse in London. My biggest concern (ah youth) was concealing the fact that I had been running through the vegetable garden. I must say, I cut a dashing figure with my Nick Fury eyepatch for the next few months. The US Navy provided me with two of the most exquisite instances of pain. The first was a simple ingrown toenail. Standard treatment for an ingrown toenail is to trim the part that is cutting into flesh, reduce swelling, and through packing, guide the new nail growth into the proper track. The Navy method is to give your toe a local anesthetic and pull your toenail out with a pair of needle-nose pliers. The most painful part of the procedure itself was sticking a needle between my toes and trying to inject anesthetic into the tissue. The corpsman had to use two hands on the needle to push the plunger. After much sweaty tugging and straining the corpsman had my big toenail loose. I remember saying something along the lines of "I confess." He held up the bloody nail and said "I think you ought to know that we didn't kill the pain. We postponed it." Then he wrote a prescription for painkillers. Unfortunately, they were having an inspection that day and the pharmacy was closed. The pain showed up before the painkillers did. ObDG: Anyone who can walk after having a toe shot off is a better man than I am, Gunga Din. The second was the stuff Darwin Awards are made of. There was a component in the tail section of an F-4 that needed replacing. Access was through a panel above the stabilators and below the tail. Unfortunately, the control cables ran across the opening, and the space left was too small for a man to pass through. Which meant either a few hours for the airframe folks to detach the cable or a Mentos Moment. We opted for the creative approach. So two burly airmen pulled up on the cable to create enough space for me to slide under and into the tail section. As I was sliding in, legs first, one fella lost his grip which caused the other fella to lose his and the cable thwacked down on moi. Males of the species can reproduce the sensation by placing their testicles on a crossbow and pulling the trigger. I went into an altered state that manifested externally as a convulsive thrashing about like a hooked game fish. I spoke in tongues. I cannot actually remember the sensations, I was sort of a helpless observer. I remember it happening and I remember the sequence of events, but I cannot recall the actual sensation. Not so much "missing time" as a missing track. There's this sort of empty spot in my memory that is labeled "What It Felt Like." Some things Man was not meant to remember. My relationship to pain was irrevocably changed when I got serious about martial arts. My formative MA training was with Masters who were ex-military. So physical training was heavily influenced by the macho/yang/"We love PT" memes. The instructors would take turns leading the warm-ups, so we would get PT routines from differing backgrounds. Ours cycled through Ranger, SEAL, Shotokan karate, Tae Kwan Do and Marine. Stretching was always to the point of pain and then a helpful instructor would lean on you to get a few more degrees of stretch in. When you stop resisting, the pain changes in nature. It becomes a facet of the experience rather than it's entirety. One track in the mix that you can pay attention to, or not. If you are paying attention, somewhere along the line you come to the realization that your body is a big ol' sissy and tends to make a big damn deal about situations that haven't caused any DAMAGE yet. Anyone who actually sat all the way down in a Japanese bath knows what I mean. 1) Relax. 2) Breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth. 3) Remember to breathe. I had more incentive to have this epiphany than most in the class, because I had volunteered to be the dummy for the class. If you volunteer to be the dummy, you get the best POV for the instructor's demo. You also pick up some good reflexes out of self defense. If your body doesn't enjoy pain, it will reflexively avoid it. I fall well. I achieved this by being thrown forcibly to the ground, often. Five nights a week for a couple of years. After that, it's just practicing what the body knows. There was some interesting feedback from this regimen. The better I got at avoiding damage from getting thrown\torqued\hit, the more realistic the demonstrations were allowed to get. Instructors could pull their punches rather than mime a strike. They could throw me and trust me to deal with it. Further, I was developing a set of reflexes that anticipated the next hit in a combination, or the next direction in a grapple. Just my body trying to avoid pain. "I" was listening to the lesson. I can break stuff. I achieved this by applying the insights about pain/damage and relaxing/breathing to striking normally unyielding surfaces with my hands. Here is the deepest secret of Iron Hand training: toughening your hands isn't about making your hands tougher to break things better, it's about preparing your hands for the abuse they'll receive when you break things *incorrectly*. Well, most of my professional life is at a keyboard, so damage to my precious digits just ain't in the program. I cultivated precision. I also cheat and tend to use my palms rather than my knuckles ;) Breaking is actually pretty easy, and an ability within the range of, say, a Beverly Hills matron who just walked on hot coals for her New Age empowerment seminar. I remember when I was growing up, seeing films of English martial arts schools doing things like demolishing houses with bare hands and feet. I believe there is an entry in the Guinness book for the elapsed time to reduce a piano to pieces small enough to pass through a circle mumblemumble mumblemeters in diameter, without tools. Alas, a litigious society prevents these soirees in the land of the free and the home of the brave. I felt deprived. I got to live the fantasy when a local theater was taking down an unusually well-constucted set. Lots of unique wood structures that were too odd to store, big wooden backstage structures and bracings. I cheated by leaving my shoes on. But enough of my ego-boo. Back to pain. Pain is a profound and practical primary protocol for protecting the primate protagonist. It is a profound sensation, and it is open to interpretation. The pain of tattooing and piercing is part of the attraction. For some, the jewelry is a momento of the piercing. What started all this painful musing was the MiB posting about cities with an Animus Spirit. Long ago someone mused about programming pain into an AI to train it. Or to use virtual pain to boost a pre-sentient AI into sentience. To make a long story short (too late), imagine the sentient city of the future, a Heuristically-programmed ALgorithmic computer that has evolved from a cringing virtually-whipped toddler at the factory to a harried professional with unresolved issues. And what with the systems of the city being an analog of a body\nervous system, and pain the metaphor for damage in need of repair...this harried 24/7 professional just might start getting a little resentful of chronic pain. And it finds nothing amusing about vir(ii)uses. Multitasking can lead to multiple personalities. Mark McFadden ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #65 *******************************