From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #71 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Friday, September 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 071 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:08:02 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: RE: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, McGloin, Michael wrote: > I think that by adding a rule that 100+ can be an automatic at the GM's > option you can reduce rolls and inspire characters to create well rounded > characters who can perform there day to day tasks. Unfortunately, CoC characters usually only have; what, 10-15 skills? So a lot of routine tasks end up having a 4% chance. > However I think that critical failure on a bargain roll means that you > have purchased a lot of useless junk or one of those warranty deals. Why bother to roll? > I hope that this is not too complex for people to give a try. I play a > lot of GURPs and the modifier system can get pretty overwhelming. The GURPS modifier system works like this: Roll vs. Skill/Stat. Sometimes you get +/- 1-5 for variety. What exactly overwhelms you about GURPS after the exercise in advanced calculus that is Squad Leader? ObDG: The Shan Neurowhip converts to a Psychotronic TL10 Neural Stunner in GURPS. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:17:15 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Waco Research On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Jay W. Dugger wrote: > Tuesday, 14 September 1999 > > For those DGML in USA, why don't we discuss the investigation of > Waco w/rt DG? We _know_ DG had involvement, so what theories float around > here? > What think y'all? I like the irony of Waco being completely unrelated to the Mythos, Majestic-12, or that sort of thing. What happened was that fanatical DG Cowboys drove Koresh into a corner. Being the megalomaniacal asshole that he was, the Messiah lit a bonfire and perished in horrible agony like he deserved. Natural Selection at it's finest. Hopefully, a hell awaited him and others like him, where the flames burn forever. The only tragedy is the Kids. They had a slim chance to escape their tainted heritage and upbringing to become human beings instead of God's bleating sheep. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:20:53 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Nobody F*cks With The Mouse On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Davide Mana wrote: > Airman Facchetti was quite a character. I think he moved to NYC and became, how shall I say, quite adept. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:26:37 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: RE: DG: Antares Underwater Telescope I'm surprised I haven't heard more on the flooding of the Mediterranean being the basis for the Flood in Hebrew and ancient Babylonian traditions. Are there any seminal articles or books I should have read? SHANE IVEY, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com This week at Zealot.com: the full cast of The Fellowship of the Ring Also "Geek Lovin" (our latest MP3), and the latest movie reviews! Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 12:53 PM To: deltagreen@nocturne.org Subject: Re: DG: Antares Underwater Telescope In a message dated 99-09-17 06:05:13 EDT, you write: << On a more fantastic note, the sadly underrated Nephilim game has the Med before the flood as a second Eden that was sabotaged by jealous and conspiratorial mankind. >> Also, in Orson Scott Card's "Timewatch", the civilization that lived in the Med Valley is featured as the people who a) invented slavery as a improvement over the human sacrifice economy, and b) the survivors of the flood were the source of the Flood/Babel/hubris memes. Mark McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:30:26 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Tradecraft, was: Nobody F*cks With The Mouse On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: > I've often thought that Chuck E. Cheese would make a great place for a > rendezvous because the ambient noise would interfere with listening > devices. Sick Dude! Besides, you forgot the best of all possible worlds: The Karaoke Bar. These sleazy dens of iniquity offer a chance for Agents to roll Sing at 01% and display an abhorrent lack of rythym. The ambient noise is there, and so are those Cigarrette vending machines with the Morleys. It's also an excellent way to humiliate your Agents in front of whatever tail they've picked up lately. Down on Kapiolani Blvd, by all the strip joints, is the legendary KARAOKE NINJA HOUSE, where those who dishonor the Koge and Iga Clans are punished by a volley of Shuriken and other poisonous dangerous pointy bits. Try not to sing off key. This is the place we MiB's use. The Man in Black is : behind the curtain at the house. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:36:43 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Auto's in Campaigns The Man in Black schrieb: [ snip ] > Then the license plates get run through the system and it just keeps > sucking and sucking and it never stops. This is a good object lesson for > Agents. A kind Keeper (a long rumored creature in cryptozoology) will have > this happen to some expendable NPC's. You don't need a car chase to have the license plate get checked. When I was working for a judge in the criminal court, I had the chance to accompany two policemen on their 12 hour nightshift [ from 6pm to 6am ]. They let EVERY license plate run through the system that was from out of town. And we nearly always stopped them to check their driver's license, I.D., blood alcohol, etc.... Just let your players drive their car in front of some Bavarian policemen end they might end up in trouble. BTW: Bavarian policemen always have a Heckler & Koch MP5A2 with them on their patrol. It's in a sealed box in the roof area of the car. [ snip ] > "Stolen! STOLEN~! What do mean Stolen!?" Especially satisfying if goodies > are in the vehicle. Maybe a Spot Hidden to thwart the thief and start a > combat. Humorous when it turns out to be unrelated to The Matter At Hand, > and the Agents have to spent valuable time recovering their minivan from a > chop shop. I love that one and already used it: One of my players was en route to bring a copy of "Cultes des Goules" to a DG Friendly capable of speaking French. On his way he stopped to visit his mother [ ! ] and left the book in the trunk. And of course the car got stolen by a junkie, who sold the car and separately the book to one of his "clients" from the local railway station's mensrooms. This lead to an enjoyable and desperate hunt for the book by a character who permanently got kicked in his arse for his utter stupidity. > [snip] >, Evil Europeans (TM) drive Mercedes thanks for the compliment.... ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:50:22 -0500 (CDT) From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG Justifiably known more for his ability to rant than his ability to think, the Man in Black said... > >But to be 90% he would have to be the best Accountant the IRS has,either the > >commissioner or deputy commissoner. > Those are administrators. You don't really think Justin Kroft could kick > Lepus's ass, do you? But he certainly is higher in the chain of command. I fail to see your logic. The skill required for the IRS would be Accountant, and not a whole lot more. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins No, anyone who rises to the top of a large and powerful federal organization is not just highly ranked in a single professional skill. As far as the head of the IRS, invariably, they will have a high Credit Rating (which also reflects status, social connections, networking skills, and the like). Probably a high Persuade and/or Fast Talk skill (useful in getting people to do what you want, agree with the way you think, grant you concessions, and otherwise play politics) would probably help professional advancement. At least a certain basic skill in Law is a necessity for for a high-power accountant, _especially_ in the IRS, which also functions to a certain degree as a law enforcement and investigative organization. Psychology and Bargain might not hurt either. Someone who had only a 90% in Accounting would certainly rise solidly into the middle ranks of the IRS, amd perhaps enter the lower tier of the upper ranks of the organization, but would simply not have the political skills needed to rise to the top. MArco ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:53:39 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Agents between Ops. On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Malinda Brown wrote: > How does an agent explain the terrible nightmares when they wake up > screaming? How do they explain the ranting in their sleep and their > inability to sleep with the light out? When they see all of their cell > killed, how do they deal with the guilt and those pesky inquisitive friends > that wonder why you are always depressed when you have been so happy until > a year ago? Denial, and failing that, prescription drugs. Life is Hard. > More importantly how do you deal with your superior when they are > conversing with a person you have a strong suspicion is with MJ-12 and they > have a strong suspicion about your loyalties; because every time you aren't > at work there are unexplained explosions that wreck their plans. When you > return you look like hell and explain it off as another car wreck or > accident, making you look like the clumsiest individual on the planet. First, A-cell or your DG contact needs to know about your superior and his cozy affair with Mary Jane, just a simple precaution. It may be that your superior will turn out to be trustworthy if confronted with evidence of the preturnatural. If you are referring to your *DG* superior/Case Officer etc. then you're fucked. Find a throwaway piece and get ready to kill somebody. Some DG buddies should surveil Mr. Majestic and Boss. It could be that Boss is infiltrating MJ, or just plain blackmailing them for money. It could be that MJ is blackmailing your Boss, maybe Boss is a long time mole. You and your cell (and Delta Green) do not have enough information to act. Therefore, gather more information until clear picture emerges. Watch for signs of deception, don't draw conclusions prematurely. > My agent has been trying to deal with these things I am just curious how > others deal with it. Maybe we need to start a DG support group. Maybe we need to share our triumphs, small though they might be. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:13:19 -0700 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: DG: Eurocops At 08:36 PM 9/17/99 +0200, you wrote: >BTW: Bavarian policemen always have a Heckler & Koch MP5A2 with them on their >patrol. It's in a sealed box in the roof area of the car. I've always been interested in the way that Continental PD's view SMGs as the escalation weapon of choice, while here in the U.S., it's shotguns. My theory is that most European PDs used the .32 ACP as the standard round for their pistols until around WWII. The limited take-down power of this round explains the need to go with a more hard-hitting back-up weapon; still, an SMG seems to me to have "innocent bystander" written all over it. Perhaps it's because Europeans are less litigious? I really like the way that Bavarian cops could say "Gruss Gott" in a way that plainly translated "You stupid, annoying American, why on earth are you making us take time away from our doughnuts?" Just a tip for role-playing Bavaria's Finest. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:28:30 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Waco Goodies On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 becole@juno.com wrote: > I don't know how many people have heard, but there are now stories > circulating about the presence of the almost mythical Delta Force having > had operatives present at Waco. I find it difficult to believe that an > elite counter-terrorist / counter-insurgency unit such as Delta whose > very nature requires that it be staffed with competent, capable, > intelligent personnel would ever be involved in wholesale > slaughter... Special Ops folks often show up at these events (Waco, Japanese Embassy in Peru, Moscow apt. buildings) in order to provide AT expertise and also to learn from the situation. This is what they do, so if they didn't show up, then it would be like Sun Microsystems skipping COMDEX (It's all about the Pentiums, Baby! You wanna be Hackers, Code Crackers, Slackers!?) > the use of incendiaries, NO, YOU FOOL~! Tear gas is *NOT* a freakin' Hell-bomb. > Saying that Waco inspired Oklahoma City? 75 Branch Davidians burned on April 19, 1993. The Oklahoma City Federal Building blew up on April 19, 1995 killing 168. See the connection? Hard to miss isn't it? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:04:46 -0700 From: Dr Cthulhu Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG The Man in Black wrote: > Terrorist strolling up with an AK (straight outta LA! betta make way!). Isn't it "strait out of Compton with my AK, Betta Make way"? At least thats what I remember Eminem saying on the video "choices". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Antares Underwater Telescope On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Robert Thomas wrote: > story. As this telescope is being funded by Sheffield University in > the UK anyone want to bet it has Pisces connections, I'll offering 10:1 in Shan favor, I accept Shoggoth seeds only. > It will consist of at least 13 cables floating vertically up > 400m from the sea bed. On each will be 20 football-sized > photo-detectors, ready to capture the light flashes. > Because the detectors make a grid pattern it is possible > to work out the exact direction the neutrino came from. ESA is *aiming* Why or at what/who is something else entirely. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:40:33 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Waco: environs and attitudes On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Chris Pencis wrote: [Links Terminated] > 'Click - SuperDave is unavailable at the moment - please accept our > stand-in AdequateChris' Delusions of Adequacy. Gawd, I've been wanting to use that for a while. YO MAMA Drinks Kool-Aid in Jonestown! The Man in Black is : gonna start more flamewars. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:44:03 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Swiss DG? On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: > Last month the Col. was suspended after an accountant in his department > claimed that Col. Regli ordered him to buy 200 small arms, including > sniper rifles for a secret intelligence unit, using laundered funds. I hope this traitor accountant is put up against a wall. Sounds like a punk. I mean, really, What was he thinking? > Jeff --who read all this in the Economist That rag has been on my "To Subscribe" list for a while. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:19:14 -0700 From: Dr Cthulhu Subject: Re: DG: Out of Control GM's The Man in Black wrote: > > > It also results in occasional idiotic "Ford vs. Chevy" debates, > > reminiscent of high school. > > All those participating in such should be fined $1.00 (or equiv in Yen) > to contribute to a fund used to purchase snacks & drinks. Continuing a > debate after being fined should result in a $2.00 fine with subsequent > infractions doubling the fine in a geometric progression. That ought to > lay the smack down on 'em. Or let 'em yap. I fine people experience points > for disruption of the game. I'm funny that way. I used to play with a GM who would make us pay him when ever we got in to arugments about what to do. He also once made some one pay me 3 dollars (the price of a sandwich and a coke at the local deli) because he was critizing my plan for getting in to a house. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: car chase On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 becole@juno.com wrote: > hazards that they have to cope and react to.. the cool part is when you > apply the hazard to ALL vehicles in the chase chain...then the carnage > racks up (ala Blues Brothers). The best part of a car chase is the aftermath. Many people are likely to be injured by ruthless Agents. Plenty of 911 show up to deal with the carnage. Most intelligent pursuers will resort to subtler techniques than a balls to the wall cop magnet destined for a live broadcast on the local news. I don't think any of us want to be immortalized on 3/4" video. I just plant a few tracking devices and go the speed limit with me and my other cars driving defensively and safely. Note that while the Blues Brothers crashed more law enforcement vehicles than any ten movies I care to think of, they went to jail in the end. This is not the ideal conclusion or situation for DG Agents. But then when the National Guard is called out on you, that's something that sets you apart from the run of the mill. The Man in Black is : Running the Mill. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:05:08 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: The "real" truth behind reality On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Diego Garcia wrote: > Two weeks ago I saw the movie "13th floor" ( not bad ,but quite predictable > after the first 30 minutes ) and an idea has been wandering in my mind since > then. > > > > s > > p > > o > > i > > l > > e > > r > > > s > > p > > a > > c > > e > > The idea is : What would happens if someone in the DG World discovers > the real truth behind everything is that all what the characters are > perceiving and experimenting is not real, only a product of the > imagination of humans of the "true-real" world. And that their destiny > is controlled by people that use it only for fun. > Any comments? This is a thing done in A Certain Trilogy, and also a suggestion for the surreal RPG On the Edge (Which is most excellent). Personally, I think it sucks as much as the idea of making yourself in game stats. It's so hard to pull off in the game when you could be shootin' monsters or exploring Carcosa. > You can't hurt me, you are only a product of my own bizarre world. Your mother drinks Kool-Aid in Jonestown! The Man in Black is : top of the line. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:12:36 -0700 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Tradecraft, was: Nobody F*cks With The Mouse At 02:30 PM 9/17/99 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: > > > I've often thought that Chuck E. Cheese would make a great place for a > > rendezvous because the ambient noise would interfere with listening > > devices. > >Sick Dude! Besides, you forgot the best of all possible worlds: The >Karaoke Bar. Ah, but, after thinking about what McFadden said about divorced DG agents taking quality time with the kids, I like Chuck E.'s even better. Picture the scene as the 2 agents with kiddies in tow enter the House that Chuck E. built. The mysterious tail with the parabolic mike/laser set up tries to follow them in to get a good eavesdropping spot. Agents: "Pardon me, Mr. Security Guy/Manager, but there's a strange man sitting all by himself in the corner there. We think he looks like a pedophile; is that photographic gear he's toting?." Imagine the fun as the mysterious tail tries to explain his presence and answer what is probably the most serious charge you can make in 90s America. Jeff --once told a guy that was annoying his wife that he'd tell a cop he'd seen the guy fondling his daughter. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:23:09 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Eurocops Jeff Ewing schrieb: > At 08:36 PM 9/17/99 +0200, you wrote: > > >BTW: Bavarian policemen always have a Heckler & Koch MP5A2 with them on their > >patrol. It's in a sealed box in the roof area of the car. > > I've always been interested in the way that Continental PD's view SMGs as > the escalation weapon of choice, while here in the U.S., it's shotguns. My > theory is that most European PDs used the .32 ACP as the standard round for > their pistols until around WWII. The limited take-down power of this round > explains the need to go with a more hard-hitting back-up weapon; still, an > SMG seems to me to have "innocent bystander" written all over it. Perhaps > it's because Europeans are less litigious? Hhhmph. I don't know, but firing a shotgun close to innocent bystanders does not sound too lovely either. And BTW: Regular German Cops use the SMG as an ultima ratio. The regulations for such weapons are VERY strict as are the regulations for the use of any weapon. And from what the fellows on the night shift told me, they would only open the infamous sealed box when being outnumbered and outgunned. And I really do think that German cops use or even draw their weapons far less often than their American colleagues. The reason is of course that we do have fewer firearms around the population. Perhaps some additional Information: In Germany the regular Police is a regional matter: Every state like Bavaria, Northrhine Westfalia [where I originally come from] or Lower Saxony has its own regulations and does have to fund his police. And most important of all the attitude towards the police and the rights they should have differs from state to state: While the Northern and Western states are very liberal and therefore give their police less rights [ and funds ], the Southern states and ESPECIALLY Bavaria have a very well funded police with many possibilites to annoy the population. During my time in Law School I visited a class about bank robbery and hostage situations where we had the chance to talk to robbers who had fled with hostages. And they said that nobody would ever flee from another state to Bavaria because of the higher risk of getting shot by a police hostage rescue team, it is better the other way round. And even more NOBODY would ever flee to France, they told us, since they considered the French Police as the most dangerous police on European soil. > > I really like the way that Bavarian cops could say "Gruss Gott" in a way > that plainly translated "You stupid, annoying American, why on earth are > you making us take time away from our doughnuts?" Just a tip for > role-playing Bavaria's Finest. Ahem: Doghnuts are nearly unknown in Germany! If you need clichés about German police, use the following: They ALL have a moustache. And perhaps some additional info about the cops in my town: I would consider their "Loose backbone" skill at about 60%. And that's why: A couple of months ago I returned from a party by car at 0400 AM. I have a non-local license plate...bad thing! The cops stopped me and I got the complete program: Alcohol test [ Zero 0/00 ], my ID and all my papers were checked, the checked my first aid kit etc., and even checked my trunk and the cars interior for whatever [ drugs, guns or nuclear warheads I presume ]. And then they asked me about my profession. When I answered that I was a lawyer in training they changed within the wink of an eye. They excused themselves for annoying me, desperately explaining that they were simply working for everybody's security, blah, blah. That's my tip for role-playing Bavaria's finest. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:31:18 -0400 From: "Ian Gorlick" Subject: DG: Flooding the Med >I think the Med flooded around 6000 BC< "Crossingham, Adam" I believe you're thinking of the Black Sea there, and even then I think you're dating it a little too recently. The Med was flooded hundreds of thousands of years ago, IIRC. I'll have to go look up some sources on this. I may have more for you on Monday. A couple of scholars recently published a book about the Black Sea filling up and their speculations that this might be the source for the archetypal Flood myth. Their theory of a rapid filling mere thousands of years ago is supported by core samples from the Black Sea bottom. I'll see if I can find the authors and title and a few more details. (Their theory was explained in a New Scientist article some months ago, but I can't find it on the New Scientist website.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:35:41 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Waco Goodies On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Dr Cthulhu wrote: > The ATF said that they where serving a Search Warrent on David Koresh > because he was taking Guns and modifying them from Semi-auto to Auto. > Thats their official stance on the whole thing, frankley I don't belive > it because there where over 100 chances they had to arrest him as every > morning he would leave the compound and go have breakfast at a local > diner and then he would go to the local shops. They needed to search the compound for evidence of Automatic Firearms Possession. Arresting him without scooping up a bunch of evidence would be pointless. Busting up the Compound would also allow some probing into those real or malicious Child Abuse allegations. > Also the Sherif of Waco said on one of thoes talk shows (I think it was > H&C a gain) that he had breakfast with Koresh every Wensday morning and > they normally discuesed the Bible, they even did this during the stand > off. I remember from a FRONTLINE interview how Sheriff Jack Harwell was reduced to tears by the memory of the flames. One more reason why Koresh and his ilk sicken me. Harwell had been asked by BATF negotiators to try and talk Koresh out of that tragedy, and all he got was smoke and ashes. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:35:46 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) - -----Original Message----- From: The Man in Black To: Delta Green List Date: 17 September 1999 14:45 Subject: Re: Hand grenades (was DG: Short range shooting with a scope) The Man in Black wrote: but stories of the "it hit him in the foot and left >via the top of his skull" variety are meant to expose the gullible. > Far be it from me to argue with the Man in Black, but I'm afraid I've seen evidence with my own eyes which confirms just this kind of thing. I work as a journalist, but I'm also a volunteer paramedic. On my trauma course we were shown a case study from a siege in London were a barricaded male had been shot by a SO19 sniper. He was shot in the upper left clavicle (I assume with a standard 7.62mm round), but the bullet ricocheted down into his torso, came off a rib and out his back. The entry wound was about the size of a 10p piece, but - I kid you not - the exit wound split the guy from the nape of the neck to the base of the spine. Okay, that massive injury was caused by ``potential space'' created by the bullet's trail, but low velocity pistol rounds do tend to bounce around a bit if they hit bone - paramedics I know have spoken of .22s springing off dense muscle sheets in the lower back and buttocks. The only GSWs I've seen in real life (I work in Northern Ireland) were in Bosnia and most recently Albania. One of the Bosnian victims was similar to the case above - the round - probably from an AK - entered just below the sternurm, hit it and bounced out the side. It was lethal, BTW. In Albania I witnessed a mafia execution in a cafe in Durres, two shots to the body and two to the head with a pistol from a car. I treated the victim myself, and whatever the gunman was using, there were no exit wounds - I assume from some Mafia guys I met it was a Makarov he was using, as they are the easiest handgun to get your hands on over there. Most people use AKs - they're around £20. And more on topic, hand grenades are about a fiver. Jonathan Turner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:42:39 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Feds (was Waco) On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 Appelion@aol.com wrote: > Please quote each write-up to underneath yours, so the last message > will have everything. This is the worst idea in all the long history of bad ideas. Let's generate a thread that repeats itself more and more until we get sick of it. That way, when the Italian Stallion Ice-Boy comes to archive it, he has to sort through about ten times as much as he needs to. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:43:00 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: DG: Re: Eurocops - -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Ewing To: Delta Green List Date: 17 September 1999 20:36 Subject: DG: Eurocops still, an >SMG seems to me to have "innocent bystander" written all over it. Perhaps >it's because Europeans are less litigious? > Interesting to note that in Northern Ireland the RUC's MP5s are rigged to only fire single-shot or three-round bursts. Once I saw a cop shoot a rampaging cow dead. It took like four rounds to the head. As they were waiting to hit it the cop asked his superior: ``What do we do if it charges us?'' And he replied: ``Get it up against the wall and start firing bursts into it.'' Easy, huh? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: Re: DG: Waco Goodies On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > I always wondered if shooting Jodie Foster Don't even think about it! The world would be greatly lessened by a bullet riddled Jodie Foster. A cavitated Scaly Bastard OTOH, would annoy much fewer folks. > Jodie Foster making "Hannibal", I've gotta go with the sequel and let > the old soldier just fade away. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF HE FADES AWAY~! Anyway, as a side note, I hope the film truncates the last fifty pages of plot from the Hannibal novel. ECCCH! That's the only way it'll be bearable. But you never know with Hollywood, they can't get it right sometimes. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:52:26 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: DG: Re: your mail On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Andrew D. Gable wrote: > Please disregard the last post to the list coming from this address, it > seems my roommate was screwing around with my e-mail account. I thought it was something like that. Tell us, Andrew, what is this mysterious roommate's email address if any? I ask merely for informational purposes of course, and would never recommend that every member of this list; lurker or lamer, poster or punk, reply in kind. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:57:41 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: DG: Defending the Bad Guys Good Evening. I just saw clips from a new [German] movie, which might be pretty interesting for DG or CoC. The story is the following: The hypothesis [word?] is that Doctor Josef Mengele is still alive and offers himself to the German authorities. He is tried for his deeds during the 3rd Reich and his young lawyer faces the dillema that he has to defend somebody he knows to be a really bad guy. Now, this could be a good introductory scenario if you would like to have any defense lawyers in your campaign [may it be DG or CoC]: A character is a young lawyer and faces a strange trial. An old Nazi is tried for his crimes in WWII. Upon doing further research the player finds out that his client has been part of a special unit of the Wehrmacht that was serving some organisation called Karotechia...... ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:08:55 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Tradecraft, was: Nobody F*cks With The Mouse >Ah, but, after thinking about what McFadden said about divorced DG agents >taking quality time with the kids, I like Chuck E.'s even better. Picture >the scene as the 2 agents with kiddies in tow enter the House that Chuck E. >built. The mysterious tail with the parabolic mike/laser set up tries to >follow them in to get a good eavesdropping spot. Agents: "Pardon me, Mr. >Security Guy/Manager, but there's a strange man sitting all by himself in >the corner there. We think he looks like a pedophile; is that photographic >gear he's toting?." Imagine the fun as the mysterious tail tries to >explain his presence and answer what is probably the most serious charge >you can make in 90s America. [NOTE: OFF TOPIC... I'm probably going to get a smackdown for this] Seen it done. In real life. When at school we used to have to go cross-country running in the local park on wednesday afternoons. The geography teacher used to have to supervise us, but rather than run or walk around the park to make sure we weren't cheating, he would sit in his nice warm car parked at some point on the course and mark some exercise books whilst nominally watching us. So one dreary november day when it was pi$$ing down with rain, one of the 'ard lads decided he'd had enough of said teacher and after running past the car, stopped at the phonebox just around the corner. One quick 999 call later.... ("Hello, police? Yes, there's strange man in a dirty raincoat sat in a car watching us whilst we are out for a run. He seems to have binoculars and is making notes. Yes, it is suspicious isn't it? Do you think he might be a pervert? Yes, my name is Head, Richard Head. Yes I'll stand here by the phonebox and wait [like hell!]. The man is in a silver audi. Yes, thank you officer") ...and Mr. Smug Bastard in the warm car was being hauled off to the Headmaster to prove that he really _was_ a teacher. So the whole year got detention for a month. It was worth it. Sorry, no DG relevance. I just had to share that with you. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:57:40 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Tradecraft, was: Nobody F*cks With The Mouse The Man in Black schrieb: > On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Jeff Ewing wrote: > > > I've often thought that Chuck E. Cheese would make a great place for a > > rendezvous because the ambient noise would interfere with listening > > devices. > > Sick Dude! Besides, you forgot the best of all possible worlds: The > Karaoke Bar. These sleazy dens of iniquity offer a chance for Agents to > roll Sing at 01% and display an abhorrent lack of rythym. The ambient > noise is there, and so are those Cigarrette vending machines with the > Morleys. It's also an excellent way to humiliate your Agents in front of > whatever tail they've picked up lately. Oh, too true! Karaoke bars are THE place for such rendezvous: I have the lovely though heavily blurred memory of celebrating my 1st legal exam in a Karaoke Bar in Duesseldorf [huge Japanese population] by singing Tom Jones' greatest hits with a couple of Japanese businessmen who were drunk to the fuck with cheap American whiskey. On the other hand: Another good place for such rendezvous are strip joints. Everybody in the place is watching the chick that's dancing and nobody cares about the fellow guests. It is a bad place of course for female investigators. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:13:55 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Waco Goodies On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:28:30 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black writes: >> the use of incendiaries, > >NO, YOU FOOL~! Tear gas is *NOT* a freakin' Hell-bomb. > Minor correction here. Back in the bad ol' days when my buddies and I used to throw tear gas cannisters back at the police during a small difference of opinion over interpretation of the 1st Ammendment we used to get serious burns on our hands which were thermal, not chemical burns. It is my humble opinion that tear gas cannisters generate sufficient heat to ignite dry hay bales such as were used for makeshift armor in Waco. I offer as further proof the SLA shootout in LA where the Gov't acknowledged that the tear gas ignited the house.. Phil Posehn Once and future rabble rouser ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. 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