From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #74 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Saturday, September 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 074 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:43:19 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Re: Alternate Pasts for DG Inspiration From: The Man in Black > No no no. Having Will Smith and other Kewl movie stars perform improper > firearm stunts encourages criminals and other neer-do-well's to emulate > these accuracy destroying methods. This is something to be encouraged and > promoted for the well being of all law abiding citizens. Plus, it looks > really Kewl. (Charlton Heston mode): I'm for the opposite--since they mainly are trying to shoot each other when they hit innocent bystanders, I say train 'em to shoot straight and save us all a lot of trouble. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:31:32 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Antares Underwater Telescope > I've been hearing whispers about North Sea and Med flooding being the > bible flood for a long time, but have yet to get any print on the subject. > I think the Pliocene Exile series by Julian May gets into this, another > buncha books to re-read. > I had also heard the Med Sea/North Sea theories, but the one I've heard most recently, and the one that seems to me to be more scientifically plausible, is the latest, that says the site of the Great Flood may well have been the Black Sea. For your reading edification, here are three sites: one from the National Geographic, one from the vaunted Television Show "Sightings" and one from the American Association of Petrolium Geologists... http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/ http://sightings.com/ufo2/realnoah.htm http://www.aapg.org/apr99expl/greatflood.html - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:37:46 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: apologies Sorry for the double post, gentlemen (and ladies). I was getting a bit restless. Be seeing you. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:48:31 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Auto's in Campaigns > > EVERY license plate run through the system that was from out of town. > > And we nearly always stopped them to check their driver's license, I.D., > > blood alcohol, etc.... > > This is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for local cops. They don't want > to hassle locals unless they need to. Violators from outside get fined > as a neat source of income, and Krappe, Bavaria gets a rep as a harsh > town. > Two little things to consider with local (US) police. One, chances are, you're dealing with a Sheriff's Department, and not an actual Police Department. This is an important distinction for one big reason. Sheriff's Departments are run by a Sheriff, who is a directly elected official; whereas, Police Departments are run by a Chief of Police who is appointed by one or several elected officials. There are other distinctions, but for this discussion, this is the big one. Since Sheriff's are elected, you see a lot of cases where his officers don't often write tickets to residents, because the Sheriff depends on their votes. it's hard for the Sheriff to get elected if the residents are cheesed off because every time they turn around, they get a ticket, so the Local Sheriff's Deputies write out-of-towners. Also consider, if your in one of the smaller towns and the town happens to be a Municipality (meaning that they're incorporated, and have their own Mayor, etc), most, if not all, of the proceeds for the fine for that tickets go right back into the coffers of that particular town. more than one small town police force has equipment you'd never expect them to have, only because they managed to pay for it by writing enough tickets. Let's not also forget that police tend to know the locals. If yout Investigators show up acting all suspicious-like, the police are going to check you out eventualy, and running your license plate is only the first step. - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:05:06 +0100 From: "Gary Matthews" Subject: Re: DG: New York Doktor Price wrote: > Anyway just a thought. BTW: GM, the Package is en route Package received.....Analysis is underway....Many Thanks End Message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:57:27 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: Web Story of Interest -- Entropy Engine At 5:51 PM -0400 9/17/99, The Man in Black wrote: > >Excuse me, but won't the heat-sucking nature of the device *increase* >entropy? You mean the inventor might not have the best grasp of thermodynamics? Shocked, shocked I am! He seems to be arguing that he takes the energy of molecular motion of air and converts it to power for his perpetual motion machine - go check out http://www.entropysystems.com/workingexplanation.htm if you're really interested, I'm just seizing on it as a McGuffin. >I thought at the end of everything was no molecular motion, >whereas heat was a measure of molecular motion. This is a weird science >gizmo that could lead right into the last city. Or tie-in with Chaugnar Faugn (see nifty-keen entropy device from THE HORROR FROM THE HILLS). Steven - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "In short, we did all we could to stimulate an official discovery of the ghastly wreck, without making reference to incredible manifestations, or to humane but illegal acts of euthanasia." -- Michael Shea, The Colour Out of Time ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:43:09 +0900 From: "Noyes" Subject: DG: RE: Re: Eurocops >Interesting to note that in Northern Ireland the RUC's MP5s are rigged to only fire single-shot or three-round bursts. Once I saw a cop shoot a rampaging cow dead. It took like four rounds to the head. As they were waiting to hit it the cop asked his superior: ``What do we do if it charges us?'' And he replied: ``Get it up against the wall and start firing bursts into it.'' A) I have never in my life seen a cow rampage to the point of having to be put down in public. Has Ireland somehow developed a mutant strain of vicious, man-eating bovines? B) It is an act of stupidity and cruelty to put down an animal the size of a horse or cow with pistol round. Use a 12-gauge or a large caliber rifle. Jay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:25:05 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: DG: Re: RE: Re: Eurocops > A) I have never in my life seen a cow rampage to the point of having to be > put down in public. Has Ireland somehow developed a mutant strain of > vicious, man-eating bovines? > Because they can't get cocaine-addled Rhinos? - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:41:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: (no subject) On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 Appelion@aol.com wrote: > I just (as in, now) heard that Eastern Washington (think Texas, but sillier) > University (more sillyness) got a 1.3 million military grant to develop an > anthrax detector. Supposed to be like a smoke detector. EWU, out in Cheney? Kewl. That's like, commutable... hell, the *bus* runs out there. Guess I better head on over and pick up some "surplus". Don't suppose it's anything but a coincidence that the bus route there also includes Fairchild Air Force Base and Eastern State Hospital (mental), right? And it's *gotta* be perfectly safe to start anthrax-detector research (presumably using real anthrax) in close proximity to the Aryan Nations compound over in Idaho... Don ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:44:56 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: DG: Re: RE: Re: Eurocops - -----Original Message----- From: Noyes To: Delta Green List Date: 18 September 1999 17:01 Subject: DG: RE: Re: Eurocops >A) I have never in my life seen a cow rampage to the point of having to be put down in public. Has Ireland somehow developed a mutant strain of vicious, man-eating bovines? Obviously, you have never lived in the country, or seen a western.... ;-) A pissed off cow will charge you just like a bull, with similar consequences. The aforesaid bovine bandit had fled a market (no doubt it must have ingested protomatter somewhere along the line), stampeded through the town centre, damaging cars, almost trampled a child, and injured a workman on a building site before ending up in someone's back garden. Cows, I am reliably informed, lose mondo amounts of SAN when separated from a herd in stressful circumstances. They then seek out trees or other vegetation for cover, but inevitably have to be put down. No cow aslyums, you see. > >B) It is an act of stupidity and cruelty to put down an animal the size of a >horse or cow with pistol round. Use a 12-gauge or a large caliber rifle. > >Jay > A 12-gauge would actually be a lot worse. A cow's skull - same as a horse - is effectively a big sloping piece of tough bone which can stop or deflect most small arms rounds. You would have to hit it several times and practically decapitate it. I agree with using a rifle, and while cops here have access to 5.56mm, usually it's not to hand except in border areas. The vet who arrived told the marksman exactly where it hit it in the skull to damage the brain - he had to hit it just above the nasal cavity. It took four rounds, and two lethal injections to kill the sucker. I can't remember seeing any protomatter slithering out, but you never know.... Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:57:53 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: (no subject) <- Anthrax Detector >Not with the ICAD I was talking about, it detects clouds of things, be >it mustard gas, tear gas, or anthrax gas, it detects forgin bodies in >the air and warns about it by using a flashing lite or a audible siren. >there are things that it can't detect but it does list anthrax as >something it can detect. The military uses these things and they come in >a wonderful shade of olive green, they also last for about 4 months >befor the filter that they use has to be replaced. Problem is it's not specific. In environments with high levels of airborne particulates (i.e. deserts), you get false alarms. Gas detectors work slightly differently (for example the Czech army [world leaders in the field] use trucks with built in air samplers attached to a big expensive thing called a gas chromatography column with an even bigger more expensive thing called a mass spectrometer bolted on the end]. Believe it or not, big bucks circulate regularly in an attempt to build something that can reliably detect clouds of airborne anthrax spores (note: the most effective way is to use tethered sheep...). Best guess is that they will use a device which will suck air in and trap particulates on a filter disc. Filter disc will then be treated with antibodies or DNA probes to detect a range of agents and readout will take anywhere from 30 minutes to a day or so. The lab next door to my old boss wass building something along these lines. It worked, more or less... but would need to be greatly simplified for military deployment. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:48:31 -0400 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: Eurocops Dunno about cows, but there was a bull in NYC this summer. Whether it *actually* had to be dispensed with 40 or so 9mm rounds is open to debate. The Humane Society did say it was regrettable. But anyhoo, the start of this discussion was why European Police forces seem to favor the SMG (and I'm not talking Sarah Michelle Gellar) over the shotgun. Perhaps the RUC didn't have any 12-ga.s? Now, our esteemed German colleague seemed to think that a shotgun is just as dangerous to bystanders as an HK. Comin' up in LA as I did, I'd have to say that given the choice of projectiles to be struck by, I'd take a #4 buck pellet at 50m over a 9mm parabellum any day, and, in the far more likely case that I'm cowering in a cheap @$$ building, the pellet has much poorer penetration. But let's not get into a silly discussion of which is "better". The real thing that interests me is why this differentiation. What would Europeans think if their cops switched over to shotguns? Would they think it harsh or that criminals were being coddled? I believe the phenom to overdetermined (as we scholarly types say), but part of the europreference must have to do with the number of military type small arms available between the wars and after WWII. Perhaps the question I should be asking is why the US stopped using SMGs, as the Thompson was used between the wars for sure and perhaps as late as the 50's. Finally, am I right in thinking that the Italian cops use the superb locally manufactured Benelli semi-auto shotgun? Jeff --thinks "No doughnuts?" No wonder those Bavarian cops are cranky! Also, as late as 1996 a British government type commented "Germans are always at your throat or at your feet." Seems more like a sentiment from 1896, and I don't believe a word of it, but fits in with the 60% Grovel Eckhard attributes to the Bavarians. Noyes wrote: > A) I have never in my life seen a cow rampage to the point of having to be > put down in public. Has Ireland somehow developed a mutant strain of > vicious, man-eating bovines? > > B) It is an act of stupidity and cruelty to put down an animal the size of a > horse or cow with pistol round. Use a 12-gauge or a large caliber rifle. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:51:43 EDT From: Popeyesays@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Bumperstickers etc In a message dated 9/17/99 10:49:20 PM Central Daylight Time, ted@naxera.com writes: << Chris - I'm so happy I'm crying! I don't know how to thank you - I'm going to have a Miskatonic University sticker on my car again! I AM COMPLETE! Ah - sorry - it was time for my medicine. Seriously, thanks, Chris, those are great stickers. Wonder who'll get it when I put 'em on my car ... >> My personal; favoprite is the Cthulhu for President! Why Settle for the Lesser Evil? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:17:07 EDT From: Popeyesays@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Flame fizzle In a message dated 9/17/99 9:28:31 PM Central Daylight Time, cpencis@yahoo.com writes: << Nuf bandwidth wasting - gotta go polish my guns - I am a Texan you know (irony in this statement somewhere.) >> Irony is down the road near Austin. Most Texans have been there but just once. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:47:31 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: Eurocops Jeff Ewing schrieb: [snip] > The real thing that interests me is why this differentiation. What > would Europeans think if their cops switched over to shotguns? Would > they think it harsh or that criminals were being coddled? I believe the > phenom to overdetermined (as we scholarly types say), but part of the > europreference must have to do with the number of military type small > arms available between the wars and after WWII. Perhaps the question I > should be asking is why the US stopped using SMGs, as the Thompson was > used between the wars for sure and perhaps as late as the 50's. I checked the weapons that are allowed for regular Bavarian Police in the "Bayerisches Polizeiaufgabengesetz" - the law that regulates when police may or has to intervene and what they are allowed to do to reach their goals. And Article 61 V PAG lists the following possible weapons: * Pistol * Revolver * Rifle * SMG * Machinegun [!] * Hand Grenade [!!! ] Of course the final two weapons are only to be used in -ehm- special situations and there are additional and fortunately rather strict regulations for using machineguns and grenades. For example machineguns and hand grenades are not allowed to be used to stop suspects from running away, only to stop them from attacking. And hand grenades may not be used against suspects in crowds. BTW: I have never heard of police actually using this extreme arsenal of weapons. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:55:06 +0900 From: "Noyes" Subject: DG: Cops, cows, and exactly 1 on-topic paragraph which I would like responses to >A) I have never in my life seen a cow rampage to the point of having to be put down in public. Has Ireland somehow developed a mutant strain of vicious, man-eating bovines? >Obviously, you have never lived in the country, or seen a western.... ;-) [Here Jay grins the mad grin of one who has shoveled tons of cow manure than than you can possibly imagine. And that was even _before_ college. :)] >A pissed off cow will charge you just like a bull, with similar consequences. I know, I assumed that we were talking about bovines in general. Non-farmers often use 'cow' when they mean 'bull', 'heifer', or 'steer'. >The aforesaid bovine bandit had fled a market (no doubt it must have ingested protomatter somewhere along the line), stampeded through the town centre, damaging cars, almost trampled a child, and injured a workman on a >building site before ending up in someone's back garden. Ah, context is everything. Yes, I can see how that could have been a public health menace, one that could not have been dealt with using the more-humane and infinitely more cost effective method utilized by farmers in less congested surroundings (i.e., leave the animal alone for a while). > Cows, I am reliably >informed, lose mondo amounts of SAN when separated from a herd in stressful >circumstances. They then seek out trees or other vegetation for cover, but >inevitably have to be put down. I've cut cattle from the herd many times, and I've never had that happen -- at least not to the extent where the cow had to be put down (if you've ever been to a state fair, you'd know that you can even take the silly things out on road shows alone). Even so, I could see how a crowded marketplace could freak one out. >>B) It is an act of stupidity and cruelty to put down an animal the size of > >horse or cow with pistol round. Use a 12-gauge or a large caliber rifle. >A 12-gauge would actually be a lot worse. A cow's skull - same as a horse - is effectively a big sloping piece of tough bone which can stop or deflect most small arms rounds. No and yes. A 12 guage (even better a 10 guage, which is used to hunt turkey out Missouri way) is extremely effective if your using 00 buck at close to point blank ranges and slugs at an intermediate distance. Otherwise, I wouldn't even take a shot at one with anything smaller than a hunting rifle (and no, I don't mean a .22). Sorry if I seemed a bit testy at this. It's not that I'm a rabid animal rights activist or anything. I just hate it when people who aren't used to being around animals get upset when the animal doesn't behave the way they think it should. Out of context it sounded suspiciously like one of those situations in which someone with a gun got jumpy because a cow panicked -- and chances are that that's what it did, because, although I've never seen a cow get mean, I have seen them get very, very scared). Speaking of panicking cattle: The above paragraph set off a thought about situations in RPGs in which the characters, exhausted, half-insane, and completely terrified, commit morally dubious acts. I have a fine example of my agents, desperate to have a highly unpleasant voodoo curse lifted (one of them was shitting water moccasins, the rest were having real problems) tortured and killed an unpleasant but relatively innocent grandmotherly type. GMs: Do you encourage your players to lose track of which side of good/evil they're on? Do you punish them if they do so? Or do you just charge them extra SAN? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:18:00 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Waco Goodies Any good stories about Cointelpro infiltrators? We had a little Afro-American girl who was always pushing us to get into more extreme acts than the rest of us wanted to do. We were still pretty much pacifist then (late '68). A couple of years later I was working as a temp microfilming teacher's credentials for the state in the basement of theState building that happened to have one of the secret enterances to the narcotics enforcement bureau in it. She came walking out with a couple of feds, saw me and turned pale. Don't know which agency she was with then. Always wondered. Phil On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:24:29 EDT LizardRoi@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 99-09-17 17:35:08 EDT, you write: > ><< Minor correction here. Back in the bad ol' days when my buddies and >I > used to throw tear gas cannisters back at the police during a small > difference of opinion over interpretation of the 1st Ammendment we >used > to get serious burns on our hands which were thermal, not chemical >burns. >> > > I thought I recognized you. Savvy protestors smear Vaseline on >exposed skin >and wear goggles and wet bandanas...and gloves. > >Mark McFadden >Flyin' his freak flag ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:06:53 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Waco Goodies ...But it worked so well on Noriega! "One raid fits all...some assembly may be required" Phil On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:32:50 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black writes: >On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Phil A Posehn wrote: > >> Minor correction here. Back in the bad ol' days when my buddies and >I >> used to throw tear gas cannisters back at the police during a small >> difference of opinion over interpretation of the 1st Ammendment we >used >> to get serious burns on our hands which were thermal, not chemical >burns. >> It is my humble opinion that tear gas cannisters generate sufficient >heat >> to ignite dry hay bales such as were used for makeshift armor in >Waco. I >> offer as further proof the SLA shootout in LA where the Gov't >> acknowledged that the tear gas ignited the house.. > >That may be true, but the fact remains that the manual for said >grenades >never mentions "incendiary" like thermite and WP. And anyone who >didn't >realize that BATF was using CS needs a serious kick in the ass. > >Thus, the point was, that this recent "incendiary" bullshit is crap, >because those devices were fully accounted for and described properly. >It >also has no bearing on the intent of those BATF morons who, contrary >to >expert advice, initiated the raid during daylight hours, without >negotiating an end to the Psych Warfare (Loud Music and Lights) and a >bunch more tactics geared to CNN. The raid was the result of poor >judgement from Koresh the Messiah and BATF. > >Fuck them all. I turned my television set to another channel a long >time >ago, and so should you. > >The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins >Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum >Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. >http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:02:16 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: Re: DG: Re: RE: Re: Eurocops At 05:44 PM 9/18/99 +0100, you wrote: >A 12-gauge would actually be a lot worse. A cow's skull - same as a horse - >is effectively a big sloping piece of tough bone which can stop or deflect >most small arms rounds. You would have to hit it several times and >practically decapitate it. I agree with using a rifle, and while cops here >have access to 5.56mm, usually it's not to hand except in border areas. The >vet who arrived told the marksman exactly where it hit it in the skull to >damage the brain - he had to hit it just above the nasal cavity. It took >four rounds, and two lethal injections to kill the sucker. I can't remember >seeing any protomatter slithering out, but you never know.... > >Jonathan > > > In terms of calibre selection, it's a matter of range and availability. Many small abbatoirs in Ontario used .22 calibre rifles for dispatching / stunning cattle and pigs before sticking them. As long as they got close enough (ie. point blank) and weren't dealing with an older bull or cow, the round would easily penetrate the skull. For that matter, sticking the rifle in the ear of the animal would almost always work. You did hear of ricochets from the skulls of bulls, however. Police officers in Canada are sometimes called upon to perform "animal control" duties for large beasts like runaway cattle and bears. While it's regrettable (perfectly good steak being turned into dog food because it's not killed in a slaughterhouse), it is often the only practical solution to deal with a runaway cattlebeast. Many cattle being brought to slaughter are free range, meaning that they have little experience with people on foot. You cannot herd them without a horse and those are difficult to find on short notice in a city. Even if the cattle are familiar with people, the are panicked and even less rational than normal. What's disturbing about it is how terrible the marksmanship of most police officers is. In the city where I used to live, in one summer the police shot four bears. Never killed one - just wounded them and the bears ran off to become a greater menace. In another case, the police officer attempted to dispatch a bear cub that had been injured by a car. Except that he neglected to check his field of fire and put the shotgun slug through the animal (without killing it), through the front door of a house, through an interior wall and the slug finally lodged in a refrigerator beside the kitchen table where the family was eating lunch. In a final case, the officer emptied his shotgun (5 rounds) without hitting the bear. Having shot bears with a shotgun - they're not hard to hit. They're big (larger than man-sized, except for cubs) and in most cases aren't moving very fast. A shotgun slug in the head, neck or thorax will usually put them down. If they're running, you shouldn't try to shoot them in an urban area. For bears, I prefer a shotgun with slugs since it leaves a sufficiently large entry wound that you get a blood trail if the animal is still mobile. The entry wound from a small calibre rifle bullet will usually "seal" if the bear has a lot of fat stored for hibernation. Some municipal departments have tried to deal with this by designating officers to perform this duty. In most cases, these officers hunt in their off-duty hours so they know how to shoot and (more importantly) know what part of the animal to aim at. ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:39:50 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Eurocops Greetings. Dr Cthulhu (oho, a fellow Doctor - marine biology, I guess) wrote >When I went to Italy I walked in to the airport and lookedup and I saw 3 >guys walking on a cat walk with Various Heavy Guns, one of which looked >to be a Styer Auto Shotgun, and the others had UZI's or simular lookin' >things, now thats what I call air port security. Interesting, as shotguns are not a standard issue weapon for our police forces (nor to the Armed Forces). Shotguns are strictly restricted to hunting activities, you need a permit to carry them and you have to carry them broken when in urban areas anyway. [probably due to the fact that the rough boys in southern Italy still saw off the sg and call it "lupara" (dialectal for "wolf gun") and use it in Mafia vengeance killings] Supposedly the restriction should not apply to special forces (ROS etc), and in some anomalous situations - given the nature of the weapon and the place it was sighted, I'd say you spotted an anti-smuggling unit. Two questions - what airport was that, and what colour was the uniform of the guys? Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:53:46 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: DG: Double-tap In a message dated 9/18/99 1:02:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jpetheri@cyberbeach.net writes: << In terms of calibre selection, it's a matter of range and availability. Many small abbatoirs in Ontario used .22 calibre rifles for dispatching / stunning cattle and pigs before sticking them. As long as they got close enough (ie. point blank) and weren't dealing with an older bull or cow, the round would easily penetrate the skull. For that matter, sticking the rifle in the ear of the animal would almost always work. You did hear of ricochets from the skulls of bulls, however. >> On a more DGish note, I have come to understand (from fiction) that a .22 pistol is favored for the infamous Mafia double-tap because the bullet will pierce the (human) skull, but then ricochets within the skull -- guaranteeing a fatal wound. Mark "Momo" McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:07:17 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Double-tap Cheers. Mark "Momo" Mcfadden wrote > On a more DGish note, I have come to understand (from fiction) that a .22 >pistol is favored for the infamous Mafia double-tap because the bullet will >pierce the (human) skull, but then ricochets within the skull -- guaranteeing >a fatal wound. The Mafia double-tap is essentially American and recent - the bad boys in the New World may favour that kind of fancy killing. For pure, unexpurgated Italian Mafia (or Camorra, 'Ndrangheta, Sacra Coroa Unita) execution, look no further. - plain execution - two-to-four lupara (sawed-off double-barreled shotgun, see previous post) shots, from point blank and using buckshot. In front if the victim deserves respect, in the back if he deserves contempt, in the face for special occasions. If the victim is particularly deserving of respect, he is approached from behind by executioners, his name is called out loud, and as he turns, the main executioner (normally the people holding the grudge) shoots him twice in the chest. - informer execution - the body must be placed in public display (in the driver seat of his car, eg, to be found in the city square in the morning) for all to see. Hands are tied back, throat is cut, the mouth is stuffed with a single large stone or (depending on the area) with gravel/sand, a large-ish sum of money is filling his jacket pockets. Note - don't trust mafiosi that stuff their victims' mouth with money, they are poseurs or newbies. - "incaprettamento" - term almost impossible to translate, means "small goat treatment" or something like that. The victim is crouching on all fours, wrists tied to knees, forearms to thighs, a loop of thin string (appreciate the cruelty) around the throat and tied to the ankles too. The guy's left that way. As soon as he relaxes, he garrotes himself. Reserved for extra special occasions - child abusers and killers, rapists and the like. These, off the top of my head. It must be noted that in recent times the New Mafia has been using thougher approaches - stuffing whole tracts of highway with C4 and the like. Finally, if the execution is a basically utilitarian biz, two cars filled with mooks with full-auto hardware are generally considered unsophisticated but practical. In the case of carabinieri General Nando DallaChiesa (former counterterrorism spec-op head, on his way to become the new anti_mafia general coordinator), the deployment of a number of gunbunnies to eliminate him and his wife was considered extreme bad form by older Mammasantissimas (DallaChiesa was a soldier and a honourable foe, therefore deserving the classic treatment, and the wife had no grudge with the families), and seen as the event that ushered in the so called New Mafia. Curiously enough, a serious anthropological study of traditional organized crime in southern Italy is not available. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:32:28 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: Eurocops You're absolutely right. The RUC don't use shotguns. They use MP5s, HK assault rifles on occasion, but not 12-gauges. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:42:40 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Anthrax detector was:(no subject) In a message dated 9/17/99 5:30:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drcthulhu@home.com writes: << Why don't they just use ICAD's? they detect Anthrax. >> They Come From Eastern Washington...(tm) Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:46:28 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Skill levels in CoC / DG In a message dated 9/17/99 6:30:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << I wish that this supposed argument was coherent enough for me to understand. Do you propose that the IRS Commish should not have Accountant? I think you are not grasping my basic premises, that 90% is the best in the world, utterly earthshaking, and capable of tremendous feats of power. I'll assume that R.W. Beck's CEO is an Executive, not an Engineer, but a few points in Engineer (Dam) might help. >> He'd be an accountant, and a good one, but not the best, and he'd be rusty. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:49:46 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Auto's in Campaigns In a message dated 9/17/99 7:00:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << Oh, THAT's Subtle. Did the Speedwagon boys cut your brakelines on the first game day or did they wait until nightfall? Then again, it does have that A-Team vs. MacGyver feel to it: http://www.lightlink.com/grudge/old/ateam-macgyver.html Geez, I bet the BUS o' DOOM took a lot of welding. Where do you go to get one of those apocalyptic vehicles of perilous peril anyway? >> Actually the agent in question lived in , not to put too fine a piont on it, in the ghetto. The plating was on the inside, the rust on the outside. I think he got it at a police auction. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:53:33 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Bumperstickers etc I've seen plate frames Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 01:17:07 -0700 From: Dr Cthulhu Subject: Re: DG: Eurocops Davide Mana wrote: > Dr Cthulhu (oho, a fellow Doctor - marine biology, I guess) wrote Actually a Doctor of general Chaos and Destruction > Two questions - what airport was that, and what colour was the uniform of > the guys? The international one Near Roma (DiVinchie sp?), about 6 years ago. I belive the uniform was a dull green, but I was younger, and I was looking for my ride more that at the guys. I do remember that they where using a tactical sling to carry their SMG's, not the loop kind but the kind that only attaches to the gun at 1 spot. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 01:17:30 -0700 From: Dr Cthulhu Subject: Re: DG: Eurocops Davide Mana wrote: > Dr Cthulhu (oho, a fellow Doctor - marine biology, I guess) wrote Actually a Doctor of general Chaos and Destruction > Two questions - what airport was that, and what colour was the uniform of > the guys? The international one Near Roma (DiVinchie sp?), about 6 years ago. I belive the uniform was a dull green, but I was younger, and I was looking for my ride more that at the guys. I do remember that they where using a tactical sling to carry their SMG's, not the loop kind but the kind that only attaches to the gun at 1 spot. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:37:22 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Eurocops I believe the usual phrase is "Tell me THREE times" Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:09:15 +0300 From: yanasikt@superonline.com (Tolga Yanasik) Subject: Re[2]: DG: Antares Underwater Telescope (LONG) > Then, after a bit of colossal meandering toward likely locations like the > North Sea Basin, the Black Sea and France, the big C decided to fill the > Meditation Sea with a long drawn out "Number One" with roots in aeons > strange and ancient. This Ocean-Spawning urination filled the Madison > Avenue and explains a lot about Southern Europeans, or anyone else on this > list who might be pissed off by this contraversial theory. Oh, man, don't you think it's better to be in where he pissed rather than where he farted and painted brown ? How unlucky for you guys that big C. decided to turn his face this way. Oh, no, now he's going to get me on target :) Cheers, Tolga Yanasik ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:41:52 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Exotic Fruit From: Davide Mana > [allergic to nuts in general - no, really!] Hmm, let's see, I'm, er, allergic to REDHEADS! Yeah, that's it. Feel free to bombard me with them anytime. Dave is not telling his wife about this post "Pineapple, pineapple, pineapple, your HEAD!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:49:00 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Auto's in Campaigns From: Eckhard Huelshoff > I love that one and already used it: One of my players was en route to bring a > copy of "Cultes des Goules" to a DG Friendly capable of speaking French. On his > way he stopped to visit his mother [ ! ] and left the book in the trunk. And of > course the car got stolen by a junkie, who sold the car and separately the book > to one of his "clients" from the local railway station's mensrooms. This lead to > an enjoyable and desperate hunt for the book by a character who permanently got > kicked in his arse for his utter stupidity. There's a whole adventure right there. Although I want to know quite what "permanently" kicked in the arse might mean. Does that mean he gets kicked as a little ceremony at the beginning of every game, now? Anyway, I wanted to check if anybody has been watching _G vs. E_. The pilot has two "Heaven cops" (tracking down demons and people who've sold their souls to the Devil--and right out of the 70s) carrying a body out to their car only to find the car has been stolen. Meanwhile, the guy they're trying to catch is taking long-range photos of them. Sounds like a typical DG op. Haven't seen any other episodes yet, but I loved the first one--kinda "The Night Stalker meets The Mod Squad." Dave ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #74 *******************************