From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #84 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Wednesday, September 29 1999 Volume 02 : Number 084 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:31:50 -0400 (EDT) From: The Man in Black Subject: RE: DG: RE: Cops, cows, and exactly 1 on-topic paragraph which Iwould like responses to On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Shane Ivey wrote: > I was referring to SAN loss for violent mundane encounters or events, which > CoC doesn't even mention. Now hold on Hoss, it does so. Just leaves it up to the Keeper. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum Code Z: 233,1,42; 140,39,23; 91,3,7; 5,52,3. http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:45:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: Re: DG: TV Warning At 10:01 PM 9/27/99 -0400, you wrote: >On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Dr Cthulhu wrote: > >> Another thing I saw on the discovery channel (about 3 min ago until I >> was kicked out of the room the TV was in) was about Leprosy. After the >> first 15 min of the show I became very afraid of the disease, no one >> knows how people get it, no one knows how to vacinate agaisnt it, hell >> no one knows how to get a culture of it. Talk about scarry, you don't >> know what to protect your self against. Well from the info I got from >> the 1/2 show I saw here are some factoids: > >Leprosy? Pshaw! Lemme tell you about a book called "The Hot Zone" by >Richard Preston. It's non-fiction, and will have you bleeding out of your >anus in the first two chapters. > I much preferred "The Coming Plague: Newly Emerging Diseases in a World out of Balance" by Laurie Garrett (ISBN 0140250913) , since she was even less optimistic than Richard Preston. Plus, she's a better writer and doesn't feel the need to cast one of the people she's writing about in the role of "heroine" or "villain". ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:06:13 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: The Mitrokhin Archive In a message dated 27/9/99 3:33:03, mib@cyberspace.org writes: >$7,000,000 Games Workshop life size >Sculpture of himself come to life GW? It'd cost more than that! Agent "I will waste no more money forever" Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:20:42 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos >Sadly the last I heard Beijing announced that they were sending 160,000 >dollars in aid. That is right a whole 160 thousand. But I guess that better >than them sending 160,000 soldiers. > Of course, they scould send the aid via soldiers, carrying one dollar apiece. Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, as insular and closed as China. The only reason they care at all about Taiwan, IMHO, is because that country is attempting to get away. China can't and won't have that. They not only need the manufacturing base that exists there, they will not lose face because they couldn't keep some small island in line with their program. I would think that happenings in China would cause DG the most trouble, simply because it would be so damned difficult to get folks in there to deal with any problems. You can damn sure bet that any Chinese equivalent of DG is either very, very small (if it's not sanctioned by the government) or incredibly huge (if it is). - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 1999 09:46:54 BST From: Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk, "BSc." Subject: DG: Green Book To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: Green Book > PS. Green Book Update soon (probably!). Is there a site for this yet. If so, where do I go to access it? _________ "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted" /__ __/ /__ __/ / / . / Groucho Marx /___/ /____/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:40:10 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: Re: DG: Forties Sourcebook Stephen Joseph Ellis writes: <<< Hi Adam, Going to be contributing from your home campaign then? >>> Grrr. [grit teeth sound effect]. I was actually going to sit down and write a proposal for exactly the supplement announced this week, having decided to do something with my life, and to a point where the campaign has bedded down and can run virtually on it's own now. My life's that small and sad. Honestly. But talk about synchronicity or what. ObDG: Steve runs quite a good DG game at UK GenCon. I did think we weren't going to make it out of 1) the hospital, and later 2) the dinner party. Hello to all the other DGMLers I met at GenCon!! I wasn't too impressed with GenCon itself, but Steve's game and the extensive range of dealers in 2nd CoC stuff (picked up a virtually mint copy of TOME's 'Death in Dunwich' and a fairly good copy of the ltd. ed. hardbound 5th ed. rules) was impressive enough to convince me to return next year, if only for the day. - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: The Baron Sliderule Subject: Re: DG: 'Manhunter' Soundtrack I have a copy of the Manhunter soundtrack and it's great. It's rather evocative and with the exception of the full-length version of In a Gadda da Vida rather listenable. The Prime Movers songs are great, as well as "Graham's Theme." A track sounds oddly like songs from "Heat," with these rising guitar wails and the like, which makes me wonder if Michael Mann has a say in what music he picks out. I got it in '91 and it was only available on tape then, and a quick search of the usual suspects (CDNow and Amazon) reveals it's currently unavailable. Your best bet is to look in used tape stores (or any online used tape places.) - --Eric - --- Stephen Joseph Ellis wrote: > 'Lo All, > > Always a fan of 'Silence of the lambs' music for > building horror as background sounds, I was > impressed to see and hear the > music for the Red Dragon adaptation 'Manhunter' at > the weekend. > I was wondering if anyone else had a copy of the > soundtrack and > if so, how good is it as background music? Anybody > know where I can get a > copy (afterall, Manhunter was a minor movie from the > 80's. Its unlikely > that MCA will still be seeling copies.) > > Many thanks, > > Steve. > > > "In the long run we are all dead" > > -John Maynard Keynes > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:12:49 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) >>And this is it - I'll let this discussion pick up before I express my >>firmly-rooted-in-victorian-morals views on the matter. >> > > >Would those be the ones where they covered the table legs, and then went and >screwed the whores in the bushes? It's "trollops", my boy, not "whores". And you "roger" them. Not necessarily in the bushes. [Am I the only one on the list to enjoy colonel Flashman's exploits? I refuse to believe it!] But I was thinking more along the lines of "Could we please excise these here references to sexual selection in your book, mr Darwin?" Cheers! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:17:18 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos >Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world >there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, >as insular and closed as China. Except possibly North Korea (which from all accounts I've read is so hard line it's frightening... although it looks like you can at least buy them off from testing ballistic missiles [sigh!]). Albania used to be pretty tough as well, before the collapse of communism. Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:33:05 -0700 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos At 12:17 PM 9/28/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world > >there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, > >as insular and closed as China. > >Except possibly North Korea (which from all accounts I've read is so hard >line it's frightening... although it looks like you can at least buy them >off from testing ballistic missiles [sigh!]). But China has been insular for longer, even though Korea was known as "The Hermit Kingdom" in C.19. >Albania used to be pretty >tough as well, before the collapse of communism. Ramshackle, Balkan tough. My Dad was thrown out twice after driving in on small mountain roads --entirely unguarded. They told him after the second time they'd throw him in jail if they caught him again. That said, his photos are incredible: miles and miles of bunkers, pillboxes and dragon teeth; like Switzerland (the border, I mean) but, well, ramshackle and Balkan. He's since been back and said that Albania post-communism is out-and-out scary. Way too many impoverished, unemployed people with AKs. BTW, Dad lives in LA, so it's not like he's unused to this combination of circumstances. Jeff --whose Dad's hobbies in retirement are: Civil conflict and the pictorial arts. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:01:21 -0400 From: "McGloin, Michael" Subject: RE: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos Jimmy said "Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, as insular and closed as China." I am sorry but even Japan has a far greater history of isolation. Throughout its long history long history China has been involved heavily in the affairs of the world and its neighbors. One need only read a little history to see Chinese involvement in Japan, Korea, Thailand, India, Viet Nam, Tibet, etc. This involvement has ranged from trade to military intervention and annexation. The Chinese cultural paradigm has left it mark thoughout the region as well, this can be seen in the Confucian systems presence throughout Far East Asia. Even China's recent history is not one of isolation. Look at W.W.II, Korea and the China Vietnam War. Please do not kid yourself about China's isolation. "The only reason they care at all about Taiwan, MHO, is because that country is attempting to get away. China can't and won't have that. They not only need the manufacturing base that exists there, they will not lose face because they couldn't keep some small island in line with their program." The history behind Taiwanese independence is a long one. First Taiwan, previously known as Formosa has been the possession of many powers including the Dutch and Japan. In fact it was given to Japan as part of the Treaty of Shimoneseki in 1895. It remained in Japanese hands until 1945. During the War the US promised Taiwan independence, however the ended up unofficially returning it to the ROC in 1945. This turned out to be a good thing for Chiang Kai Shek, since he needed to flee there in 1949. This is where things get sticky, although the ROC remained the only UN recognized China until the seventies, the reality of the situation was quite different. The PRC AKA China was truly in control of the nation. The ROC was incharge of a former province, former colony called Taiwan. This did not make the Taiwanese too happy. In fact there were many protests against rule by the KMT's ROC regime.On February 28 1947 hundreds of Taiwanese were killed in anti government riots. However since then things have changed. Taiwan, mainly through the leadership of CKS's son Chung Ching Kuo, has evolved into a real democracy with a genuine claim to sovereignty. The PRC makes the claim that Taiwan should be a part of China, however they also make that claim regarding Tibet. The kicker is that neither of these "provinces" were part of China until the Qing period, when China was in fact an annexed possession of the Manchurian Qing emperors. Thus with the collapse of the Qing in 1911, and the founding of the Republic of China neither Taiwan nor Tibet belonged to China. It was only after the defeat of the KMT/ROC in 1949 and the invasion of Tibet by the PRC that Tibet became a part of the PRC. Taiwan has never officially been part of the PRC, and while ethnically most Taiwanese are Chinese in terms of politics, religion and economics the Taiwanese are quite different. It is unlikely for instance anyone would consider a return of Texas or California to be in the best interest of Texans or Californians. I can not say that I feel a return should never occur, however I think that choice should start with Taiwanese. "I would think that happenings in China would cause DG the most trouble, simply because it would be so damned difficult to get folks in there to deal with any problems. You can damn sure bet that any Chinese equivalent of DG is either very, very small (if it's not sanctioned by the government) or incredibly huge (if it is)." I would think that there would be some great stories to be set in China. A good one now is the 100 million strong qi gong movement sweeping China. The movement is now in big trouble as the government has started a crackdown. I guess they got mad that some qi gong guru could attract more members than the CCP. Michael McGloin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:13:20 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos Jeff Ewing schrieb: > At 12:17 PM 9/28/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world > > >there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, > > >as insular and closed as China. > > > >Except possibly North Korea (which from all accounts I've read is so hard > >line it's frightening... although it looks like you can at least buy them > >off from testing ballistic missiles [sigh!]). > > But China has been insular for longer, even though Korea was known as "The > Hermit Kingdom" in C.19. Don't the Japanese consider the Koreans as a lesser race? I remember reading about Japanese racism especially their attitude towards the Koreans. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:04:07 -0700 From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos At 09:13 PM 9/28/99 +0200, you wrote: >Don't the Japanese consider the Koreans as a lesser race? I remember reading >about Japanese racism especially their attitude towards the Koreans. > >ECKHARD This is a long and involved story that is not really on-topic. Suffice it to say that the Japanese attitude towards the Koreans moved from indignation at a perceived slight in the 1870s and attacks on their merchants and diplomats in the 1880s to an at least professed patronizing concern for their backwardness (1890s) to colonial administration (1910) and finally to a goodly amount of despite in the 1930s-40s. They certainly treated the Koreans atrociously in the war, and continue to discriminate against 3rd generation Koreans in Japan. But, which country's immigration policies are so enlightened that they may cast the first stone? Certainly not Germany or the U.S. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:39:11 -0400 From: "McGloin, Michael" Subject: RE: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos Jimmie said >Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world >there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, >as insular and closed as China. This is a kind of thinking which Edward Said called Orientalism. Although I only lived in Asia for three years, I feel I understand China pretty well for an outsider. I think these kind of statements are really harmful to developing an understanding of other cultures. This kind of thinking disqualifies discussion of other places. First by assuming that although the internet is a transcontinental tool that no one has a direct experience of China. Second assuming that China is some how another world. In my experience most people are pretty much the same every where. When I was in Beijing during the bombing of the Chinese embassy this May, most people I spoke with exhibited the same kind of nationalistic anger that most Americans would have spouted. Likewise speaking with people about thier jobs, families and dreams most seemed a lot like Americans or for that matter Russians or any other people. Disclaimer: However since this is not as much fun in a roleplaying enviroment, I suggest you ignore it. That right ignore the similarities and play up the diffferences. It makes for a lot more fun to play up the monkey brains for lunch and martial artists everywhere:) Michael McGloin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:37:22 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: DG: Re: Amen brother on the Blues Actually, the truth about Jeremy Spencer is even more sinister. During the LA appearance of the tour to promote their first album without Peter jeremy was kidnapped by The Children of God, the same Jesus Freak group that produced that poor bastard River Phoenix. The leaders of the group were Jim and Judy Robbins. The CoG would make an excellent Cthulhu cult for game purposes. Any escapees among the list?? I met Jim & Judy once when I was 15 and can supply only a little info on the early years of the cult . Phil On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:15:52 +0200 Davide Mana writes: >Greetings. > >Phil writes... > >>Fleetwood Mac in Chicago. > >... and I just stand and observe a minute of respectful silence. >A lot of the music I grew up on is showing on this list - talk about >common >cultural roots! > >>Peter Green & co. with Willie Dixon, Otis >>Spaan and the Chess records band. > >Now, whatever happened to Peter Green (aka Peter Greenbaum) soon after >that >concert is worth investigating. >I've got only John McVie's version of the story - Green was seduced by >"two >German underage chiks" and pumped full of acid in order to extort him >a >recording exclusive - but sure the young bluesman changing personality >within a weekend, turning his back on the old friends and growing his >fingers so long he can't pick a guitar any longer is just too good >(and >bad) to be left alone. >Add the fact that he justified the whole lot with his "following his >personal religious beliefs" and you've got a winner. > >All this without counting Jeremy Spencer disappearing during a tour in >LA >to pop up anew in a Tibetan monastery a few weeks later. > >I _need_ a Delta Green '60s/'70s sourcebook [DG: The Cowboy Years] > > >Davide Mana >Torino, Italy >doctor.dee@iol.it >The Ice Cave - >http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:20:22 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos Jeff Ewing schrieb: > At 09:13 PM 9/28/99 +0200, you wrote: > >Don't the Japanese consider the Koreans as a lesser race? I remember reading > >about Japanese racism especially their attitude towards the Koreans. > > > >ECKHARD > > This is a long and involved story that is not really on-topic. Suffice it > to say that the Japanese attitude towards the Koreans moved from > indignation at a perceived slight in the 1870s and attacks on their > merchants and diplomats in the 1880s to an at least professed patronizing > concern for their backwardness (1890s) to colonial administration (1910) > and finally to a goodly amount of despite in the 1930s-40s. They certainly > treated the Koreans atrociously in the war, and continue to discriminate > against 3rd generation Koreans in Japan. But, which country's immigration > policies are so enlightened that they may cast the first stone? Certainly > not Germany or the U.S. > > Jeff > > Oh my, I did not want to cast any stones at nobody, Korean, Japanese, American or whatever... I was just interested in the attitude of one nationality towards another. And when talking about immigration policies: For the last 3 months I've been working my legal arse off to keep a 24year old, HIV-positive, Brazilian prostitute from being sent back to Brazil. The case has now reached the highest court of administration of Bavaria. What really makes me sick is the fact that the bloody immigration agencies want to get her out of the damn country before she really gets sick and might cost money. Therefore you may believe me: On the topic of immigration laws and policies I know what I am talking about. And by the way: Thanks for the information. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:24:04 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: DG: Nationalism In a message dated 99-09-28 16:04:35 EDT, you write: << But, which country's immigration policies are so enlightened that they may cast the first stone? Certainly not Germany or the U.S. >> I can't think of any countries that could be described as enlightened. And if they ever were, it didn't last for long. That's part of the problem with having countries. It's sort of making the US vs THEM paradigm official policy. Mark McFadden Although I'd nominate Holland for Best of What's Available. Nice folks and one of the few class acts in WWII. I consider the destruction of citizen's records to deny the Nazis easy ID of Jewish citizens one of the coolest acts by a government I've ever heard of. Kudos all 'round. But that's just my personal opinion. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jay W. Dugger" Subject: RE: DG: John Ford, the OSS, WWII and DG On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 MSubias@ix.netcom.com wrote: > ObDG: This is me wandering out loud but how many people on the list would > actually buy a WW2 based DG book or chap book? And how many would actually > use it to run or play in 1940s period games? > > - -- > Adam Crossingham > > I'd buy it, certainly. At the very least I'd use it for background, and as a source of ideas. It > might even inspire me to run some WW II era ganes. > > Marco > Yeah, I'd probably buy it. I don't have eye teeth, instead I have a sweet tooth and a gaming tooth. ("Get me a fix, NOW! Yes, master.") I might use it to run "tube-punk" scenarios (Gravity's Rainbow: The RPG), or as history for modern-day or Cold War games, but DG during WW2 interests me less than playing Captain America vs. the Red Skull. CPT America vs. Thor, however, is another kettle of fish. - --------- Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel til_e@hotmail.com : duggerj@reed.edu - --------- ((Needs to study (LISP) if (he writes in (()))). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:48:08 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos Jimmie Bise, Jr. schrieb: [snip] > > Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different world > there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has been, > as insular and closed as China. I do not agree. They interact quite a lot with ther nations and cultures, at least nowadays. But what they do is that they just stay true to their own culture and values and do not give a shit about the Western values and culture. They think that their way of life is the right one and do not appreciate other countries' criticism about that. And hey, don`t the Americans just do the same thing the other way round? Anyway: The Chinese government's attitude towards human rights really stinks. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:39:20 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: Re: DG: Nationalism I would also nominate Sweeden for its cool policies during the Viet Nam war. They not only welcomed Americans who declined to participate in the war, but their families as well and taught you the language at the expense of the state. Suffice it to say that when Nixon declared the amnesty in the '70s none of those who went to Sweeden came back. Phil On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:24:04 EDT LizardRoi@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 99-09-28 16:04:35 EDT, you write: > ><< But, which country's immigration > policies are so enlightened that they may cast the first stone? >Certainly > not Germany or the U.S. >> > > I can't think of any countries that could be described as >enlightened. And >if they ever were, it didn't last for long. That's part of the problem >with >having countries. It's sort of making the US vs THEM paradigm official >policy. > >Mark McFadden > Although I'd nominate Holland for Best of What's Available. Nice >folks and >one of the few class acts in WWII. I consider the destruction of >citizen's >records to deny the Nazis easy ID of Jewish citizens one of the >coolest acts >by a government I've ever heard of. Kudos all 'round. > But that's just my personal opinion. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:24:23 -0400 From: "McGloin, Michael" Subject: RE: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos ECKHARD said "Don't the Japanese consider the Koreans as a lesser race? I remember reading about Japanese racism especially their attitude towards the Koreans." I do not want to offend anyone. But according to Nationalist Shinto interpretaions of the Kojiki within the context of Shinto cosmology everyone besides the Japanese are a lesser race. However the Japanese seem to hold a "special place in their hearts" for the Koreans. This probably stems from the competive nature of thier geopolitical relationship. However the Japanese also seem to have some strong feelings of resentment towards the Chinese as well. In this case it seems to be motivated by the tremendous influence the Chinese played in the development of Japanese society, the Japanese language being the easist example to site. For instance Chinese historical records seem to fly in the face of the Kojiki and its claims of divine emporers and mileniums of Japanese imperial rule. All in all I have found that Asia is at least as racist a place as America. In my experience the Chinese "don't care" for the Japanese or Koreans or Viet Namese for that matter. > -----Original Message----- > From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de [SMTP:EHuelshoff@t-online.de] > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 12:13 PM > To: deltagreen@nocturne.org > Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos > > Jeff Ewing schrieb: > > At 12:17 PM 9/28/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Here's the important thing about China. It's an entirely different > world > > > >there than the one we're used to. Period. No other country is, or has > been, > > > >as insular and closed as China. > > > > > >Except possibly North Korea (which from all accounts I've read is so > hard > > >line it's frightening... although it looks like you can at least buy > them > > >off from testing ballistic missiles [sigh!]). > > > > But China has been insular for longer, even though Korea was known as > "The > > Hermit Kingdom" in C.19. > > > > ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:38:00 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) In a message dated 28/9/99 7:27:20, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: >It's "trollops", my boy, not "whores". >And you "roger" them. >Not necessarily in the bushes. I'll screw whores in the bushes if I damn well feel like it Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:24:24 -0400 From: Daniel Harms Subject: Re: DG: COUNTDOWN CONTENTS At 09:05 PM 9/27/99 -0400, the MIB had just composed a fan letter to Lorenzo Lamas when he wrote: >That's the unvarnished truth. I mean really, who are you going to >believe; me (world famous ICON) or some hard of vision idiot mess >who has written the most unoriginal collection of Mythos short >fiction in the history of our hobby. I mean really, he even admits >it at the end of every "so-called" story. Dammit, MIB! You'll never reveal that my true identity is August Derleth! Oh, damn. See ya, guys. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:50:33 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Appelion@aol.com schrieb: > > In a message dated 28/9/99 7:27:20, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: > > >It's "trollops", my boy, not "whores". > >And you "roger" them. > >Not necessarily in the bushes. > > > I'll screw whores in the bushes if I damn well feel like it > > Agent Xavier Well, if you feel like it. But please keep the details of the experience for yourself. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:29:07 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Davide Mana wrote: > [Am I the only one on the list to enjoy colonel Flashman's exploits? > I refuse to believe it!] Colonel Flashman? Excuse me old boy, but would you be referring to the late GENERAL(!!!) Sir Harry Paget Flashman of Gandamack Lodge? Or is there another of that name. I believe his father, Buckley Flashman, never rose above the rank of Captain and I don't believe the GENERAL"S son "Havvy" ever served King and Country. Though if you have further knowledge on this subject, please post it, as I, for one, am a great admirer of this hero of Balaklava, Lucknow, The Sikh Wars, and so many other campaigns. - ----Josh - -- I bring you the Blessings of Epona. May the Horse be with you! ------King Leir ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:36:51 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > > > Well, if you feel like it. > But please keep the details of the experience for yourself. > > Or alternately, you could post jpgs of the experiance to the Ice Cave (Davide willing of course) for the rest of us (or at least the MIB and I) to enjoy. OBDG: Never, and I mean never, take a blow job from a Tcho-Tcho hooker! - -----Josh - -- I bring you the Blessings of Epona. May the Horse be with you! ------King Leir ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:52:05 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII Good Morning. Does anybody out there have any DG relevant theories or ideas about the role of Pope Pius XII during WWII? Was he on the side of Karotechia or just an ignorant fool? There is evidence that he knew of the holocaust in 1942 [ if not earlier ] and he did nothing. And in the moment a German priest is trying to collect enough stuff to convince the pope to make a saint ouf of Pius XXI. I consider it a rather bizarre idea to make a saint out of the pope who would have had the chance to fight the atrocities and did nothing. Will the 40s sourcebook cover the role of the Vatican during WWII? ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:54:00 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Josh Shaw schrieb: > > > Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > > > > > > > Well, if you feel like it. > > But please keep the details of the experience for yourself. > > > > > > Or alternately, you could post jpgs of the experiance to the Ice Cave > (Davide willing of course) for the rest of us (or at least the MIB and > I) to enjoy. > > OBDG: Never, and I mean never, take a blow job from a Tcho-Tcho hooker! > Is this warning the result of a first-"hand" experience? Worried, ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:31:44 -0000 From: "Crossingham, Adam" Subject: DG: How close is 'Astronomy' to 'Our Darkest Hour'? [some spoiler s] Wondering out loud for the benefit of myself, other interested list members and in order that some of the Pagan people might overhear: I'd be interested to know how close Richard Wadholm's 'Astronomy' short story is to Karotechia history, background and organisation as according to Pagan. This story appears in the recent 'Delta Green: Dark Theatres'. This is the first story I finished out of Dark Theatres - I was drawn by the comments before the story for some strange reason :). It's good, a little breathless, and a the author seems to imposed what feels like a very modern POV on the heroine at times in an effort to get a 1940s pulp style. It grates sometimes. [spoiler space] [spoiler space] [spoiler space] [spoiler space] [spoiler space] [spoiler space] [spoiler space] Several groups within Karotechia are named for the first time I believe - the Sparrow Group translating the Gothic Necronomicon; the Opal Group working on astronomy, mathematics or metaphysics (memory slips at this point), and the Theodolyte Group - in charge of the summoning equipment. Also mentioned are the Sorcery Korps, who appear to be an white uniform wearing elite within the elite Karotechia, and mean-bastard wizards. However still no origin of the Karotechia's name is given... :) With the group(s) mentioned in the 'The Fate' chapbook this makes 5 or 6 total. What exactly happened at Castle Naudabaum is detailed. And it is revealed that the Resuscitated Casualty programme could have been a lot worse than it was. And that the Karotechia has access to an express but dodgy 'transportation system' called an Angle Web. Smells like an interconnected gate system to me, and this system may or not have been a gift from our favourite Mythos god. And we have a couple more high ranking Karotechia officers named, to add to ones from 'The Fate' chapbook and the DG sourcebook. - -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:37:58 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII At 9:52 AM +0200 9/29/99, Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: >Good Morning. > >Does anybody out there have any DG relevant theories or ideas about >the role of >Pope Pius XII during WWII? >Was he on the side of Karotechia or just an ignorant fool? The October Atlantic Monthly has a detailed review of a new book on the subject, conveniently enough - HITLER'S POPE: THE SECRET HISTORY OF PIUS XII, by John Cornwell. The author started out trying to disprove the notion that the Vatican didn't resist the Nazis, and wound up finding it was even worse than he thought. Check it out. The gist of the book is that Pacelli pursued any relationship which would increase the power of the Papacy, at the expense of local Catholic churches and victims of the Holocaust. Some reviews at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670886939/o/qid=938604785/sr=2 - -1/002-5112390-8633667. Other sources: PIUS AND THE HOLOCAUST, A READER http://www.catholicleague.org/Pius%20XII%20and%20the%20Holocaust/piusx ii.htm A defense of Pius XII, arguing that he helped to save many Jews, rather than acquiesce as the Nazis sent Jews to Auschwitz. UNHOLY TRINITY: HOW THE VATICAN'S NAZI NETWORKS BETRAYED WESTERN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312094078/o/qid=938604356/sr=8 - -2/002-5112390-8633667 Basically argues that the Vatican was so obsessed with fighting Communism that it did things like smuggle Nazis to South America through the "Ratlines," launder money, etc. Steven - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "In short, we did all we could to stimulate an official discovery of the ghastly wreck, without making reference to incredible manifestations, or to humane but illegal acts of euthanasia." -- Michael Shea, The Colour Out of Time ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:52:03 +0200 From: Juergen Hubert Subject: DG: Botched DG op in Germany? From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19990928/aponline220335_001.htm : > Report: Germany Expels 3 CIA Agents > > The Associated Press > Tuesday, Sept. 28, 1999; 10:03 p.m. EDT > > MUNICH, Germany -- Public television reported Tuesday that three CIA spies had > been uncovered in Munich and forced to leave the country. > > The German government promised Washington it would keep the affair quiet, even > agreeing not to officially expel the three, but allowing them to be ordered home by the > U.S. government, ZDF public television said in a news release about its report, which is > to air Wednesday night. [snip] Well, maybe this op didn't fail as spectacularily as some others, but it did draw some attention... The article goes on to quote an estimate that states that about 100 US intelligence agents are operating undercover in Germany. Wonder what they are doing there? (Other than industrial espionage, that is.) - - Juergen Hubert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:18:43 -0700 From: Josh Shaw Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > > > OBDG: Never, and I mean never, take a blow job from a Tcho-Tcho hooker! > > > Is this warning the result of a first-"hand" experience? I'm sorry, details of certain operations must remain classified. OTOH, if anybody is interested in buying a stainless steel cockring with ....interesting ....deformations I might have one for sale. Also, due to the infiltration of the pornography industry by certain South Asian groups, agents should be extremely careful when buying tapes or visiting the bookstore. If even a hint of anything gelatinous or amorphous appears on the screen, turn the tape off AT ONCE! - ----Josh - -- I bring you the Blessings of Epona. May the Horse be with you! ------King Leir ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #84 *******************************