From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #85 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Thursday, September 30 1999 Volume 02 : Number 085 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:14:12 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Josh Shaw schrieb: > > > Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > > > > > OBDG: Never, and I mean never, take a blow job from a Tcho-Tcho hooker! > > > > > Is this warning the result of a first-"hand" experience? > > I'm sorry, details of certain operations must remain classified. > > OTOH, if anybody is interested in buying a stainless steel cockring with > ....interesting ....deformations I might have one for sale. > > > Also, due to the infiltration of the pornography industry by certain South > Asian groups, agents should be extremely careful when buying tapes or > visiting the bookstore. If even a hint of anything gelatinous or > amorphous appears on the screen, turn the tape off AT ONCE! Hey, what`s so bad about Ron Jeremy? But seriously: Could there be something like Mythos fetishists? And a huge though secret industry serving these needs? Deep One Hybrids being stars of a strange sub culture, like Melonie Marsh or Busty Babson? ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:00:48 EDT From: PaganArt@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: How close is 'Astronomy' to 'Our Darkest Hour'? [some spoilers] Frankly, Astronomy is a piece 'o crap. Sorry. I said it. I had no control over the outcome of the Dark Theaters book and refused to participate. As far as the Karotechia or anything in that story goes, it has nothing to do with Delta Green. Everything about the damn story is out of place, boring or just plain stupid. It read like a volkswagon repair manual. As far as I can tell, there are only two stories in the anthology which are really good, Greg Stoltze's and Scott's. Russian Dolls is kind of neat, but has some problems although the Mi-Go bits are very good. Whew! Just had to get that out! Listen, Adam, I know you're excited, and we'd love to use you on the project, but we like to keep as much of the production in house as possible. We've had outside the house, book size disasters before which have halted production for months. We will never again allow an editor out of house for our game books. You would like to participate, we would like you to, but it is very unlikely that anything you write would alter the way Scott or I are thinking on the project (i.e. the mythos elements or the "Big Groups"). Source material on real world agencies is probably the extent of what we will look for out of house. Sorry. Unlike other companies who will endlessly stall you with rhetoric, I thought I'd just plunk down the plain truth. Sorry if anyone finds it upsetting. Thanks for your support, Dennis Detwiller Writer/Art Director/Silly Rabbit Pagan Publishing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:15:02 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII Greetings. Eckhard wrote >Does anybody out there have any DG relevant theories or ideas about the role of >Pope Pius XII during WWII? >Was he on the side of Karotechia or just an ignorant fool? Karotechia, I can't say - smells too much of sulphur. He was clearly on the Nazis side, anyway. And he might have been set up as an unwilling K. tool. >There is evidence that he knew of the holocaust in 1942 [ if not earlier ] and he >did nothing. Curious you should mention this. Amazon.uk is currently offering "Hitler's Pope", a drastic redimensioning of Pius XII, at half price - as it entered this week's bestseller list. I ordered my copy last night (400-odd history hardback for ten pounds - just my kind of thing). The book appears to be well documented, and written by a serious researcher. In the meanwhile, from reliable sources, all seems to imply that Pius XII was by all means a conniving bastard and a highly unpleasant character to boot. The pope that signed the agreement with the Italian Fascist Government, his personal plans for the after-conflict settlement included a restoration of the Vatican state domains to include a fair share of the Roman countryside (plus a seaport on the Mediterranean, a navy and an air force!!), severe reduction of the openings sanctioned with the Vatican Council (thus backstabbing the fascists whith whom he had a previous accord) and some harsh score-setting with the Savoia dinasty (the enforcers of Italian unity and of the consequent loss of power of the Vatican state in 19th century). In this sense, it is worth noticing that while the Pius XII staff bent over backwards to help German war criminals to escape (including the spiriting away of a whole Waffen-SS division, IIRC) when the war turned sour, he never moved a finger to help the equally beleaguered - but slightly more innocent - Savoias. [Disclaimer - the Savoia where no saints. If nothing else, the King of Italy during the war years - Vittorio Emanuele III, aka "Il Re Soldato" (the Soldier King) for his safe-distance-from-the-frontline posturing during WWI, aka "Sciaboletta" (short sword) to his generals - was sorely lacking in the balls department. He was just too happy to let Mussolini handle the state affairs, and did not protest when his _daughter_ Mafalda ended up (IIRC) in Buchenwald (sp?) and met her demise there with all the rest of them] A prince of the blood by birth, Cardinal Pacelli (later Pius XII) was most likely moved by exquisitely mundane considerations, and by an elitist attitude. He was apparently not so hot when doctrine was concerned. He was an expert in Concordates and various canonical law settlements, and had served as a Pontifical Legate (Ambassador, more or less) in Germany between 1920 and 1925, working on the Bavarian Concordate. Bavaria. 1920s. Rings a bell? So - he was there while the theoretical bases of Nazism where being distilled and refined from a number of pretty un-Christian sources. It would be nice to know what cardinal Pacelli thought about concepts such as Agarrtha, reincarnation, or Aryan supremacy. At the very least, he perceived all this as a means to an end - from Curwen on, the classical first step in the setting up of a disastrous relationship with the Mythos. Anyway, by now he has discussed the matter over with God, and got his just dessert. >And in the moment a German priest is trying to collect enough stuff to convince >the pope to make a saint ouf of Pius XXI. He might even make it - the current pontiff is pretty willing to make as many new saints as possible. A practice about which I will not expand in this seat. >I consider it a rather bizarre idea to >make a saint out of the pope who would have had the chance to fight the >atrocities and did nothing. Or worse, was more than happy to turn a blind eye on some. Despite the number of encyclical (sp?) letters he wrote to openly condemn the Nazi party line (in particular the euthanasy of the "unfit to live") he supposedly _approved_ of the Holocaust, as a means to reduce what he considered to be the excessive power of Jewish bankers and moneylenders over the Catholic herd. >Will the 40s sourcebook cover the role of the Vatican during WWII? I really hope so. Vatican, and Montecassino. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:25:42 EDT From: DHammann@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII In a message dated 99-09-29 03:53:50 EDT, you write: << Does anybody out there have any DG relevant theories or ideas about the role of Pope Pius XII during WWII? Was he on the side of Karotechia or just an ignorant fool? >> This debate has been going on for fifty years. But even Isreal has decided that Pius XII wasn't antisemetic as much as he was very pro-Catholic leader that really didn't care about Jews anymore than he cared about Protestants or Moslems, only Roman Catholics mattered. By the time Vatican intelligence warned him of the Houlocaust, northern Italy and the Vatican was threatened with, then occupied by German forces and they new that Hitler and Himmler would order dire retribution on the Vatican in the case of open opposition. So Pope Pius XII was a selfish leader who put the welfare of his church and people ahaed of another religion and their people, very Machiavellian, but that doesn't make him an ignorant fool. And from what I have read, the Vatican only helped Catholic ex-Nazis, not the Protestant ones. More likely Delta Green would get a slammed door in the face from the Vatican with shout of "Go away, we don't want to get involved!" But they might get messages to meet with certain monks or priests who would be of limitied help, especially if one of the team was openly Catholic. For the record, the future Pope Paul VI, Monsignor Montini, ran a spy netowork from within Vatican diplomatic areas in Axis territory that fed intelligence back to American and British contacts through Ireland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:46:15 +0200 From: "Florian R. Hanke" Subject: DG: Security Breach Alphonse, As you may know, I was recently assigned to observe some of the minor cults mailing lists out there. I noticed that one of our friendlies, "John Tynes" frequents a list called UA. Members of this list claim they are able to use what they call "True Magick" (with a "k") .. well, the usual stuff on that type of list. Although a good friendly in the past, I feel now that he's overstepped some boundaries, I quote: "I did write a script a year ago for a short (20min) Delta Green film" A major security breach, for sure. We need to obtain this document. I suggest we send in you-know-who. Be seeing you, Agent Edwards P.S: Do I get promoted to D-Cell now? :-P ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:03:45 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII Davide Mana schrieb: [snip] > In the meanwhile, from reliable sources, all seems to imply that Pius XII > was by all means a conniving bastard and a highly unpleasant character to > boot. Strange. The priest they interviewed about Pius XII, a guy called Gumpel or Grumpel, remembered Pius as a lovely, charming and...saintly person. But perhaps they had more than just a professional relationship... [snip] > He was an expert in Concordates and various canonical law settlements, and > had served as a Pontifical Legate (Ambassador, more or less) in Germany > between 1920 and 1925, working on the Bavarian Concordate. > > Bavaria. > 1920s. > Rings a bell? In the report they mentioned a letter he wrote to Rome from Germany about socialist or communist marches in which he had the tendency to concentrate on the fact that some of these people were Jews. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:17:54 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Men / Women (part 2) Greetings. After privately reminding me that, despite impressions of things going otherwise, life goes on (for General Flashman as for everybody else) Josh wrote... >> Well, if you feel like it. >> But please keep the details of the experience for yourself. > >Or alternately, you could post jpgs of the experiance to the Ice Cave >(Davide willing of course) for the rest of us (or at least the MIB and >I) to enjoy. Or comment, ideed. Alas, the Fortunecity provider, whose views are even more victorian-tinged than my own, refuses to let me post such illustrations un the website they kindly (if sometimes discontinuously) grant me, on pain of cancellation of our mutual agreement. A sad state of affairs, that has so far forced me to hide a certain ill-famed gerbil-oriented document in an obscure corner of the Cave. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:34:28 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: Wasted bandwidth Greetings. Just a thing that came up a few minutes ago - tomorrow (for some of you maybe already today), September 30th, is the day in which the Catholic Church remembers Saint Jerome, patron of translators and satyrists. And of some other guys, too. Have a nice day. Davide Mana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:50:50 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: RE: Wasted bandwidth Davide mentioned the commemoration of: "Saint Jerome, patron of translators and satyrists. And of some other guys, too." Presumably you mean "satirists"...? Satyrism has entirely different connotations.... Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:02:07 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: How close is 'Astronomy' to 'Our Darkest Hour'? [some spoilers] In a message dated 99-09-29 04:32:17 EDT, you write: << And that the [spoiler obscured] has access to an express but dodgy 'transportation system' called an Angle Web. >> Sounds like a flowery way of describing a chessboard. Mark McFadden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:30:20 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: How close is 'Astronomy' to 'Our Darkest Hour'? [somespoilers] Cheers! Dennis Detwiller himself wrote >Frankly, Astronomy is a piece 'o crap. Sorry. I said it. I had no control >over the outcome of the Dark Theaters book and refused to participate. As >far as the Karotechia or anything in that story goes, it has nothing to do >with Delta Green. Just a curiosity, as I've yet to order the Dark Theatres book. [stop throwing paper balls - I'm a poor student doing the worst job in the world!] My curiosity is - who is the author of the above mentioned Piece 'o Crap (TM)? I ask for a silly reason - a friend considered the acquisition of a copy of DT and was scared away by an author appearing in the anthology (no, I'm not naming names). Now I'd just like to cross-test opinions. Thanks! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:22:21 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Wasted bandwidth In a message dated 99-09-29 15:08:19 EDT, you write: << Presumably you mean "satirists"...? Satyrism has entirely different connotations.... >> Yeah, but we need saints, too. Mark McFadden Hail to the King, baby. Celebrate the Lizard. P.S. Davide, who's the patron saint of Bologna? He or she would have an interesting patronage, judging from some of the references I've heard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:26:29 -0700 From: "Steven Kaye" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Wasted bandwidth - -- On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:50:50 Shane Ivey wrote: >Davide mentioned the commemoration of: >"Saint Jerome, patron of translators and satyrists. And of some other guys, >too." Including librarians. We're represented by a eunuch. And people wonder why the profession has image problems. Steven Kaye - --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:26:29 -0700 From: "Steven Kaye" Subject: Re: DG: RE: Wasted bandwidth - -- On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:50:50 Shane Ivey wrote: >Davide mentioned the commemoration of: >"Saint Jerome, patron of translators and satyrists. And of some other guys, >too." Including librarians. We're represented by a eunuch. And people wonder why the profession has image problems. Steven Kaye - --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:50:30 EDT From: DHammann@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII In a message dated 99-09-29 13:22:08 EDT, you write: << In the meanwhile, from reliable sources, all seems to imply that Pius XII was by all means a conniving bastard and a highly unpleasant character to boot. >> As I mentioned in an earlier post, Isreal still recognises Pope Piu VII as having unofficially saved 800,00 Jews and done more than most other world leaders at the time, although in historical hindsight he should have done much more. I find that those that condemn him for not risking the safety of the Vatican itself to defy Hitler, are also the same people who wouldn't care much if Hitler had ordered it destroyed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:46:37 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: RE: Wasted bandwidth Greetings. Shane presumed... >Presumably you mean "satirists"...? Satyrism has entirely different >connotations.... Hoops.... there goes another square meter of Paradise Allotted Space. Not to mention the strange guy in a cassock that's been stationing under my house in an old 2CV chainsmoking and nervously handling a violin case. Must have been that bit about x-rated files in the Cave. Thanks for the correction! And Mark asked >P.S. Davide, who's the patron saint of Bologna? He or she would have an >interesting patronage, judging from some of the references I've heard. LOL! Saint Petronius, a fifth century nobleman from Verona (hahaha, uncle Willie would have loved that one) turned man of God,that apparently nailed an appearence of religious sentoment in the head of the denizens of Bologna. Further deeds are, as they say, shrouded in myth and folklore. OK, let's let the good people on the list (and all the others, too) in on the facts. Bologna is known as "la Dotta", "La Grassa" and "la Rossa". La Dotta (the learned one) because it hosts the oldest university in Italy. La Grassa (the fat one) because it's well renowned for its many gourmet treats. La Rossa (the red one) because it is one of the two traditionally communist centres in the country (the other being Turin). A bad turf for a saint. Compounding this, there's a tradition (that might be the one to which Mark refers) marking Bologna as Italy's hornier city - sex is supposed to be the first and foremost interest in the Bolognesi's head, and they are generally accused of all sorts of weird practices. I must admit I never tested the word of mouth - to be hones, I found Bologna, the only time I visited, to be a totally boring town. But Saint Petronius might just think it otherwise - maybe that's why sometimes a flood sweeps the town. [but do not be cheated - Venice was the cat-house of the Mediterranean for fifteen centuries, and nobody swears worse than a Florentine] And here I stop. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:04:06 +0200 From: EHuelshoff@t-online.de (Eckhard Huelshoff) Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII DHammann@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 99-09-29 13:22:08 EDT, you write: > > << In the meanwhile, from reliable sources, all seems to imply that Pius XII > was by all means a conniving bastard and a highly unpleasant character to > boot. >> > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, Isreal still recognises Pope Piu VII as > having unofficially saved 800,00 Jews and done more than most other world > leaders at the time, So what. He still might have been a bastard. Doing good or impresing stuff does not mean that you have to be a saint. Think of Schindler: Boozer and Womanizer. But there is an important difference: Schindler was just an ordinary factory owner, while Pius XII was....the Pope, second to God, his master`s voice. If you think of yourself as being the leader of THE true religion, with all the Christian values like humanity, love and blah, blah, blah [ and especially if the "founder" of this religion was a Jew ], you HAVE to do more than "just" unofficially save some. Who, if not such an important religious figure as the pope should have stood up and find the right words for the deeds of the Nazis? >although in historical hindsight he should have done > much more. I find that those that condemn him for not risking the safety of > the Vatican itself to defy Hitler, are also the same people who wouldn't care > much if Hitler had ordered it destroyed. I do not think that Hitler would have ever dared to destroy the Vatican! Remember, many of Nazi Germany`s upper crust considered themselves Christians, this might have been just one bridge too far for Hitler. I truly believe that this might have caused some unrest in Germany. It may sound strange, but I really think that there were [or are?] people that would say "Well, killing 6 million Jews, hmmm, I do not really agree....BUT destroying the Vatican, well that`s really too much!" Personally I think that, while I appreciate that Pius saved 800,000 [ if this is true ], I'd just say: "Hey, he's the pope! It's or should be his fucking job to fight everything that inhumane or plain evil!" For me the real heroes of WWII were the ordinary allied [ Red Army included ] soldiers, regular citizens that risked or lost their lives, health or sanity in the war against Germany, may it be during air raids over the valley of the Ruhr, in Northern Africa or on Omaha Beach. It may sound pathetic, but as a German born only 27 years after WII, I am really thankful to those guys, since it is their sacrifice that enabled me and my fellow Germans to live in a free nation and do what I want to. ECKHARD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:33:17 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII Cheers! ><< In the meanwhile, from reliable sources, all seems to imply that Pius XII > was by all means a conniving bastard and a highly unpleasant character to > boot. >> > >As I mentioned in an earlier post, Isreal still recognises Pope Piu VII as >having unofficially saved 800,00 Jews and done more than most other world >leaders at the time, although in historical hindsight he should have done >much more. I find that those that condemn him for not risking the safety of >the Vatican itself to defy Hitler, are also the same people who wouldn't care >much if Hitler had ordered it destroyed. I guess in the end is a matter of sources - saint, Nazi buddy or a troubled man with too many responsibilities - Pius XII fits all the bills. He was in an unenviable position. He had duties. He probably fell short of fulfilling them, but I'm no judge. Italian critics tend to be harsh in their assessment of Pacelli. He was just another one of those that let the Italians down, after all (like the King, like the Dictator, so the Pope failed to raise his voice against the Hun). Which is a silly attitude, but is also firmly rooted in the proprietorial feelings the Italians have for the head of the Catholic Church. In this sense, Pius XII was doubly one of us - as pope and Italian. But he did not do enough for his family. It's hard to explain, but I think deep down it's the way the Italians felt during the war and Occupation, and it tinged the interpretatuion of the man's deeds and opinions. And as I am at it, I'd like to throw in another idea that might or might not stimulate some DG-relevant condition. I'll talk about dark shadows. No, not the horror sitcom. About dark shadows settling on the spirits of nations. People says that America was never the same after VietNam, that the war cast a shadow on the nation's.... what? Self-confidence? Self-image? Same probably goes with the Kennedy shooting. The same was said about Britain losing the Empire - they neer fully recovered from the blow, they had this load of memories and so on. For Italy, it was the Second World War, a conflict in which we lost all faith in our leaders, and we lost face as well, and we lost a relevant portion of our own self-respect as a nation. The consequences of this attitude, of this knowledge, are still influencing Italian culture and society today, in ways I perceive but I'd take forever explaining. Did Russians experiment something similar when Communism cracked and failed, and they had to sell MIR TV-time to banana commercials? Did something similar happen in the mind of the Japanese when the Emperor denied his godhood? Do the Germans feel along these lines when they remember their involvement in the Nazi killer pipe-dream? Any others? Who knows, maybe something can be extracted from this impression, that all nations carry a secret pain or shame shaping their current attitude. Something can be extracted maybe to be weaved through a Delta Green scenario. Just some late night rants. Sorry. Goodnight. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:03:19 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Wasted bandwidth In a message dated 99-09-29 16:59:25 EDT, you write: << Compounding this, there's a tradition (that might be the one to which Mark refers) marking Bologna as Italy's hornier city - sex is supposed to be the first and foremost interest in the Bolognesi's head, and they are generally accused of all sorts of weird practices.>> Yep, that would be the tradition I was referring to. There's a lot to be said for a city that shares a name with a sausage and has a rep for toe-curling oral expertise of the non-verbal variety. << I must admit I never tested the word of mouth - to be hones, I found Bologna, the only time I visited, to be a totally boring town. >> Maybe you should have tested the word of mouth. Mark McFadden It's Horny Week on the DGML, hoist the Jolly Roger! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:15:18 -0700 From: Phil A Posehn Subject: DG: Re: Wasted bandwidth It's a DS7 or9 I believe...those black things with the huge fenders and suicide doors. Phil On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:46:37 +0200 Davide Mana writes: >Greetings. > >Hoops.... there goes another square meter of Paradise Allotted Space. >Not to mention the strange guy in a cassock that's been stationing >under my >house in an old 2CV chainsmoking and nervously handling a violin case. > >Must have been that bit about x-rated files in the Cave. > >Thanks for the correction! > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:13:41 -0800 From: "Jeffrey Moeller" Subject: DG: Yet more items from the AP Newswire This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0A95.98D0F860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This one likewise should require little explanation. We simply must = keep these ongoing ops under tighter wraps. http://www.msnbc.com/news/316375.asp?cp1=3D1 - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0A95.98D0F860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This one likewise should require = little=20 explanation.  We simply must keep these ongoing ops under tighter=20 wraps.
 
http://www.msnbc.co= m/news/316375.asp?cp1=3D1
- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0A95.98D0F860-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:11:09 -0800 From: "Jeffrey Moeller" Subject: DG: Dimitrius Underwood--Failed Trepanation? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0A95.3E3AA9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you don't know what is going on with erstwhile #1 draft pick = Dimitrius Underwood, check out this link http://www.msnbc.com/local/rtmi/7193.asp Now I understand why the MiB would keep quiet on this, since this is = obviously an ongoing op. But what's up with the rest of the list? - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0A95.3E3AA9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you don't know what is going on = with=20 erstwhile #1 draft pick Dimitrius Underwood, check out this = link
 
http://www.msnbc.com/lo= cal/rtmi/7193.asp
 
Now I understand why the MiB would = keep quiet on=20 this, since this is obviously an ongoing op.  But what's up with = the rest=20 of the list?
- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF0A95.3E3AA9A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:43:25 -0400 From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." Subject: DG: KGB Files This is something that's not been mentioned here, that I can recall. Apparently, a Soviet Dissident by the name of Mitroshkin (sp?) defected and gave us numerous documents directly from the KGB's top secret archive. This man was the KGB's archivist for many years and headed up the archive's move from the old KGB headquarters to the new one outside Moscow. Some of the documents and Mitroshkin's notes were recently published in a book I simply have to read. Apparently, these notes and documents were obtained during the ten-year move of the archives and are comprised of his handwritten notes and transcriptions, as well as actually photocopied documents. This thing looks huge, blowing the lid off of most of the KGB's operations from 1919 well into the 1980s as well as some operations currently in progress. Here's the kicker, though. Though, during the archive move, each document had to be signed out and back in, Mitroshkin was in complete control of the process. They gave him complete authority over the project and told him to make whatever notes he deemed fit (which, by the look of things, was a lot!). Though the KGB conducted searches of briefcases and such when folks left the area, they never actually did any body searches and all he had to do was put his notes in his front pocket and walk right out with them. So what have you all seen about this, and do we have any DG ideas? - -Jimmie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:57:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Womack Subject: Re: DG: How close is 'Astronomy' to 'Our Darkest Hour'? [somespoilers] On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Davide "Long-time Satyriasis Sufferer" Mana wrote: > > My curiosity is - who is the author of the above mentioned Piece 'o Crap (TM)? > The author of "Astronomy" is Richard Waldholm. This would appear to be only his second publication (at least according to the editor's prefatory remarks). I know I promised to post a review of Dark Theatres at RPG.net a few weeks ago; I've long since finished reading it, but just haven't gotten up the nerve to post what will be at best a very dismal review. Ah well; maybe when it's finally released in a mass trade edition--right now the limited-run mail-order-only edition is sold out, so the risks of this volume wrecking your sanity are pretty minimal right now. Chris Womack Keeper of the DGML oaktree@nocturne.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:00:08 EDT From: DHammann@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: 1940s / Pope Pius XII In a message dated 99-09-29 17:09:27 EDT, you write: << I do not think that Hitler would have ever dared to destroy the Vatican! He ordered Paris to be destroyed, but luckily he didn't have enough faithful followers with the means by then, By his order he did have the entire Polish intellectual class liquidated and several Central European towns. That was the Vatican's fear, that once the Defeat of the Third Reicht was ensured Hitler, and Himmler didn't have to care what the German populace thought when it came to wrathful acts of revenge. Personally I think that, while I appreciate that Pius saved 800,000 [ if this is true ], I'd just say: "Hey, he's the pope! It's or should be his fucking job to fight everything that inhumane or plain evil!" Noble but not realistic, the Pope is the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic Church, the Church and its followers are his first priority. If a brilliant statesman like John Paul, our current Pope, was leading the Vatican then things might have been different, but Pope Pius XII was a mediocre man - the wrong man for the wrong time - but that doesn't make him evil and he doesn't deserve the abuse heaped on him. For me the real heroes of WWII were the ordinary allied [ Red Army included ] soldiers, The Red Army was fighting so Central Europe could be ruled by a ruthless, murderous Russian Dictator, instead of a ruthless, murderous German one. It has always been a regret in America that the Wehrmacht and the Red Army did not obliterate each other. regular citizens that risked or lost their lives, health or sanity in the war against Germany, may it be during air raids over the valley of the Ruhr, in Northern Africa or on Omaha Beach. It may sound pathetic, but as a German born only 27 years after WII, I am really thankful to those guys, since it is their sacrifice that enabled me and my fellow Germans to live in a free nation and do what I want to. >> I can't disagree with you there . Here Here for the allied W.W. II generation! Its too bad there were not many German willing to die for freedom from 1933-1945. Too many seemed to prefer to die cowering in air raids than taking on their own vile totalitarian government. Even the army officers who tried to assassinate Hitler waited until all chance of military victory was gone. D.S.H. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 09:22:05 BST From: Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk, "BSc." Subject: DG: Sketchy thoughts on a Chinese DG counterpart To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: Sketchy thoughts on a Chinese DG counterpart > You can damn sure bet that any > Chinese equivalent of DG is either very, very small (if it's not sanctioned > by the government) or incredibly huge (if it is)." If we propose that Tcho-tcho have been running around that corner of Asia and have left behind their religious dogma, there could have been several Chinese cults at one point in time. The government, less than keen with these new dissident movements crushes them, but some odd anomalies are found in the reports of the soldiers who were sent to deal with them. This leads the government to set up a special wing to investigate these matters further. The aims of this new wing are to: 1) Analyse and obtain evidence pertaining to the Mythos. 2) Eliminate any elements of the Mythos which pose a threat to the stability of China. 3) Report back to the Chinese Authorities any elements of the Mythos for future reference and use. Hence rather than a DG policy of kill-em-all and destroy all connected with them, the Chinese DG would destroy the cultists, but deliver the cultist materials back to its Government. This might lead to minor officials in the Chinese government becoming corrupted and setting up their own cults and/or turning to the Mythos, thus perpetuating the danger rather than eliminating it. So how does DG get involved? A CIA deep-cover spy reports makes it to the Swedish Embassy. He makes a garbled report about some minor politician assassinating his political enemies with "bat-shaped-demons". The Swedes, with eyebrows raised, presume this is some sort of code, pass the information onto the Americans where a DG Friendly picks up the tip off and contacts his local DG agent. _________ "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted" /__ __/ /__ __/ / / . / Groucho Marx /___/ /____/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:57:40 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: DG: Front Companies Hello all, Just found this and had to share it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_economy/newsid_46 1000/461574.stm stiill could be DG relevent if we can use it to obtain funding for missions! Those wacky CIA types! BCNU Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:12:26 -0400 From: Steven Kaye Subject: Re: DG: Sketchy thoughts on a Chinese DG counterpart At 9:22 AM +0100 9/30/99, Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk, "BSc." wrote: > >If we propose that Tcho-tcho have been running around that corner of Asia and >have left behind their religious dogma, "Lair of the Star-Spawn," the story which introduced the Tcho-Tcho, has legends of the Tcho-Tcho existing in China. In addition, the Tcho-Tcho kidnap a scholar from his home in Beijing. As for religious dogma, don't forget the "deathless Chinamen" who are the leaders of Cthulhu's cult in "Call of Cthulhu." >there could have been several Chinese >cults at one point in time. The government, less than keen with these new >dissident movements crushes them, but some odd anomalies are found in the >reports of the soldiers who were sent to deal with them. This leads the >government to set up a special wing to investigate these matters further. The >aims of this new wing are to: > >1) Analyse and obtain evidence pertaining to the Mythos. >2) Eliminate any elements of the Mythos which pose a threat to the stability > of China. >3) Report back to the Chinese Authorities any elements of the Mythos >for future > reference and use. > >Hence rather than a DG policy of kill-em-all and destroy all connected with >them, the Chinese DG would destroy the cultists, but deliver the cultist >materials back to its Government. This might lead to minor officials in the >Chinese government becoming corrupted and setting up their own cults and/or >turning to the Mythos, thus perpetuating the danger rather than >eliminating it. More thoughts - aside from all the boring historical precedent, this gives the Chinese additional reason for invading Tibet. Many of the espionage books I've read discuss Chinese espionage as concentrating on 1) monitoring of dissidents abroad and 2) industrial espionage. Fun for potential three-way standoffs between March Technologies, the Chinese Service to be Named Later, and SV-8 in the later case. Steven - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.NOSPAM.netcom.com "In short, we did all we could to stimulate an official discovery of the ghastly wreck, without making reference to incredible manifestations, or to humane but illegal acts of euthanasia." -- Michael Shea, The Colour Out of Time ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #85 *******************************