From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest)
To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org
Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #93
Reply-To: Delta Green List <deltagreen@nocturne.org>
Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org
Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org
Precedence: bulk


deltagreen-digest      Thursday, October 7 1999      Volume 02 : Number 093




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:48:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: MSubias@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: DG: Shan Question (Possible Countdown Spoiler)

On 5 Oct 1999, Peter Devlin wrote:

> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> POSSIBLE COUNTDOWN SPOILER
> 
> I could do with additional opinions on the following (potential) Shan 
spoiler:
> 
> My understanding is that the Shans want to get off Earth but their
> templeships don't work within Earth's atmosphere or EM envelope. So 
> they get involved in the takeover / manipulation of various space
> agencies, planning to get outside Earth's range and back to Lggyxx 
>(or whatever, Neptune?).

> Why don't they simply use a Gate spell, one end tethered at Goatswood, 
> the other at Lgggyyyyyxxxx then shove their templeship through on a
> transporter?

> They don't have such a spell? That I don't buy as they have the 
> resources of PISCES, Severn Aerospace and an Azathoth power source 
> at their disposal. They could get access to one readily enough. 

Daniel M Harms said...

<clip>    

     I think that the shan may indeed be unfamiliar with most gate
technology.   From what descriptions of their history I've seen,
they've been largely dependent on their Azathoth-powered vessels
for their conquests.  Under such circumstances, the shan may not
have used much gate technology at all before Shaggai exploded.
I'd say it's likely that the small number of Shan who made it
to earth have forgotten all about gate technology, or aren't sure
about how to go about finding it.  It may even be that those who
have it are keeping it secret from the others, to maintain their
status or as an ace in the hole. 
   
     Too often I think that we fall into the trap of assuming that
everyone in the Mythos world knows about everyone else.  I think that
it's quite the opposite:  many people know a corner of the picture,
but they're not interested in figuring out if it's part of a whole
(or they've decided it's part of something else).

Yrs.,

Daniel

Good points Daniel. Ignorance might be the reason, but the Shan's religious fanatcism could be 
another. Maybe they would think of using gate technology to move an Azathoth powered ship to be 
blasphemous, as if the process would inply that Azathoth's power was not adequate for their 
travel needs. Another possibility could be that since Azathoth powers the ship, a sort of mini 
gate to Azathoth may already exist in each ship, and that gating such a a gate may cause some 
sort of cataclysmic space/time disaster, which would destroy the ship and a good deal of the 
surrounding area. Hey, maybe such an operation would destroy _all_ the Shan ships, since all are 
connected by that mini gate. 

Of course, it could be fun to have a campaign where the Shans learn of gates and learn the Mi Go 
have them, and decide to conquer to Mi go in order to get their magical knowledge. Then we could 
have a nice Shan/Mi-go war with M-12, DG, Pisces, and plenty of other players involved. First it 
could be covert, with the Shan using human catspaws, then very hot. Maybe the British government 
would go public about the "Shan allies united with us to fight the evil invader." The reaction 
from NATO and the U.S. would be very interesting. I could just see Majestic fighting to maintain 
its alliance with the Greys in such circumstances, especially when/if the Brits/Shan find out 
about the Majestic/Grey connection.   
 
Marco     

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 1999 09:09:53 BST
From: Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk, "BSc."                    <itdcjb@hants.gov.uk>
Subject: DG: bradbury

To:     deltagreen@nocturne.org

From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant,
Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council,
The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375
Subject: bradbury

>I recall a SF story I read in high school (long ago when smilodons roamed
>the earth) thet had the ghosts of all of the authors of banned books
>attacking the first colonists on Mars. The last 2 to be banished were, of
>course, HPL and Poe. I think it was by Bradbury. Does anyone remember the
>title of the story and which anthology it was in?  I want to turn my
>players on to it.

>It's in _The Martian Chronicles_.

>"Usher II" is in THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES.

Hmm. Usher II can be found in The Illustrated Man (My choice for the Desert
Island) but maybe there are differences between the UK and US publications of
the book. Although some of his work is a little dubious Bradbury makes good
pickings for any Keeper (or sci-fi GM) looking for inspiration.

Notable Bradbury:

* "The Wind" from "The October Season", for anybody considering a campaign
   against the Itquatha (sp.)
* "Something Wicked This Way Comes", about a circus with a dark secret.
* "Dandelion Wine", the part concerning the stalker and his effect upon small
   town America.
* There's also a story about a baby born in another dimension, whose name
  escapes me, but it can be found in "I sing the Body Electric"

  _________   "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted"
 /__  __/ /__
 __/ / / .  /                                  Groucho Marx
/___/ /____/

------------------------------

Date: 6 Oct 1999 09:11:38 BST
From: Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk, "BSc."                    <itdcjb@hants.gov.uk>
Subject: DG: 40's Sourcebook timeline

To:     deltagreen@nocturne.org

From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant,
Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council,
The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375
Subject: 40's Sourcebook timeline

>> Alex said...
>>
>> If I could suggest something, it should at least start with the beginning of
>> 1939 bacuase there was lots of pre-war military activity (not to mention
>> Anschluss of Austria and occupation of Czechoslowakia).
>
> You bias is showing... Hitler got rolling in the twenties. Mussolini did
> some nasty in Ethiopia in the Thirties.

How about starting the timeline directly after the conclusion of Masks of
Nyarlahotep?

  _________   "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted"
 /__  __/ /__
 __/ / / .  /                                  Groucho Marx
/___/ /____/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 02:35:30 PDT
From: "Stabernide -" <stabernide_@hotmail.com>
Subject: DG: Shan Question (Possible Countdown Spoiler)

<SPOILERS>

<etc>

<etc>

<etc>

<etc>

<etc>

<etc>

Hmm. Presumably, as has already been mentioned, the Shan have in the past 
relied on their temple-ships to carry them around and have had no real need 
for gate technology. Pre-earthfall then, they had at best only heard of Gate 
technology, but never used it or been in possesion of it.

Now they're trapped on earth, however, such technology would be a valuable 
accquisition- and given their role as masters of PISCES, one which should be 
reasonably easy to pick up (some of the occult tomes this group has in their 
possesion no doubt contain a create Gate spell).

Unless of course the Shan can't cast spells (or spells created for human 
use)whilst ensconsed in a human's head- certainly the massive loss of POW 
involved in creating a Gate that bridged any reasonable galactic distance 
would be extremely detrimental to the host, and perhaps through their 
symbiotic relationship, to the Shan as well.

What they'd be looking for then, is a human mage powerful enough to open 
this kind of Gate- and more importantly, one they wouldn't have to coerce 
through parasitic infestation; I suspect such individuals might be a litle 
thin on the ground- even down Brichester way.

Just a thought.




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: 06 Oct 99 11:33:09 +0100
From: Peter Devlin <pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk>
Subject: DG: Shan Question Part 2

A few interesting ideas on Shans not using gates. My thoughts in return:

I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Harms that we Keepers often make the presumption that one Mythos critter knows all about other Mythos critters, spells et al. However, the list of major Mythos tomes which PISCES has access to includes a number which should contain gate rituals.

Lack of MPs for gate creation? Or POW? That's what stupid captured investigators are for. This argument doesn't convince me at all as the Shan only need to use the gate once to get back to their chosen planet (Xiclotl, Neptune, Uranus, wherever).

Never heard (or thought) of Hounds being attracted to gates. In our campaign the Dimensionsal Shamblers act as an impromptu form of Yog Sothoth worshipping Mythos 'gate police', popping up at sites of transdimensional interest to look for infidel munchies.

The Azathoth engine in the templeship? I've already considered that one. It is reasonable to assume that the templeships cannot be shoved through a gate without some kind of disaster. However the Shan and their Azathoth manifestation are not omnipotent and may not know of this potential problem. Recall that they have built their most recent templeship wrongly. I like the idea that the Shan could cause a disaster by experimenting along these lines. The resultant investigation would make for a good scenario. Anyway even if the templeship cannot be moved, the Shan themselves could go through a gate unless...

The idea that the Shan live partly in other dimensions and therefore cannot use a gate does have merit. But IIRC old HPL himself wrote of gates which could change the user as they passed through it to facilitate travel. And many Mythos critters would seem to share that characteristic with the Shan e.g. Hunting Horrors, Dimensional Shamblers, Colours.

I lean towards the idea that not all Mythos races have access to all Mythos powers and info. But that still shouldn't stop races from using gates where found. The MiGo in particular have been shown to use gates and there is one not too far from Goatswood.

I can imagine a PISCES team being sent to investigate suspected gate sites for exploitation possibilites. Alternatively, the Shan could summon up a Servitor and get it to whistle up a gate for them. Or a Dimensional Shambler, which might make a first-class biological shuttle in which many Shan could leave Earth at the same time. Or PISCES could inititiate a search for Yog Sothoth cultists to be exploited.

Also, bear in mind that the Shan are not a united group. The earthborn Shan might see gates as a quick fix to their problems with the elder Shan, whether the gate actually works or not. Given that the elder Shan are Azathoth fanatics they may not wish to have any truck with cultists of other gods so it might take some debate.

Enough speculation for now.

Cheers   :-)  -->  :-0

Peter Devlin

Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html
The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/
Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:04:29 +0100
From: G_H_O@t-online.de (Heiko Aulbach)
Subject: DG: Re: bradbury

> Hmm. Usher II can be found in The Illustrated Man (My choice for the
Desert
> Island) but maybe there are differences between the UK and US publications
of
> the book. Although some of his work is a little dubious Bradbury makes
good
> pickings for any Keeper (or sci-fi GM) looking for inspiration.

In my copy of The Martian Cronicles (Heyne, ISBN 3-453-07413-0) Usher II is
located just between The Naming of Names and The Old Ones. It even fits in
between
the dates given in my copy:     2004-2005 The Naming of Names
                                             April 2005  Usher II
                                             August 2005  The Old Ones

Heiko.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:13:27 -0500
From: "Shane Ivey" <sivey@zealot.com>
Subject: DG: RE: Shan Question Part 2

A quickie:  it could be that the problem is in our perception of Gates from
the CoC rules.  For instance, HPL described the Fungi from Yuggoth as
"flying" through the cosmos on those funky skinny wings, not gating
themselves from one end of reality to another.  I don't object to Mi-Go
gates at all, of course, but it's not the only way to fly.



Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com
Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org
[mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Peter Devlin
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 5:33 AM
To: Delta Green List
Subject: DG: Shan Question Part 2



A few interesting ideas on Shans not using gates. My thoughts in return:

I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Harms that we Keepers often make the
presumption that one Mythos critter knows all about other Mythos critters,
spells et al. However, the list of major Mythos tomes which PISCES has
access to includes a number which should contain gate rituals.

Lack of MPs for gate creation? Or POW? That's what stupid captured
investigators are for. This argument doesn't convince me at all as the Shan
only need to use the gate once to get back to their chosen planet (Xiclotl,
Neptune, Uranus, wherever).

Never heard (or thought) of Hounds being attracted to gates. In our campaign
the Dimensionsal Shamblers act as an impromptu form of Yog Sothoth
worshipping Mythos 'gate police', popping up at sites of transdimensional
interest to look for infidel munchies.

The Azathoth engine in the templeship? I've already considered that one. It
is reasonable to assume that the templeships cannot be shoved through a gate
without some kind of disaster. However the Shan and their Azathoth
manifestation are not omnipotent and may not know of this potential problem.
Recall that they have built their most recent templeship wrongly. I like the
idea that the Shan could cause a disaster by experimenting along these
lines. The resultant investigation would make for a good scenario. Anyway
even if the templeship cannot be moved, the Shan themselves could go through
a gate unless...

The idea that the Shan live partly in other dimensions and therefore cannot
use a gate does have merit. But IIRC old HPL himself wrote of gates which
could change the user as they passed through it to facilitate travel. And
many Mythos critters would seem to share that characteristic with the Shan
e.g. Hunting Horrors, Dimensional Shamblers, Colours.

I lean towards the idea that not all Mythos races have access to all Mythos
powers and info. But that still shouldn't stop races from using gates where
found. The MiGo in particular have been shown to use gates and there is one
not too far from Goatswood.

I can imagine a PISCES team being sent to investigate suspected gate sites
for exploitation possibilites. Alternatively, the Shan could summon up a
Servitor and get it to whistle up a gate for them. Or a Dimensional
Shambler, which might make a first-class biological shuttle in which many
Shan could leave Earth at the same time. Or PISCES could inititiate a search
for Yog Sothoth cultists to be exploited.

Also, bear in mind that the Shan are not a united group. The earthborn Shan
might see gates as a quick fix to their problems with the elder Shan,
whether the gate actually works or not. Given that the elder Shan are
Azathoth fanatics they may not wish to have any truck with cultists of other
gods so it might take some debate.

Enough speculation for now.

Cheers   :-)  -->  :-0

Peter Devlin

Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html
The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/
Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:33:01 -0400
From: Bruce Ballon <Bruce_Ballon@camh.net>
Subject: DG: RE: COUNTDOWN CONTRIBUTORS

Hi!

I'm not sure what I'm getting since my template was combined with Adam
Crossingham...
However, I'd rather take product than cash any day...
And I can even wait for one item I'd be sending away for anyway, the DGEO3
Project Rainbow... or I'd take a Lurker in the Lobby videotape ;)

Bruce

- -----Original Message-----
From: SGlancy12@aol.com [mailto:SGlancy12@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 9:56 PM
To: deltagreen@nocturne.org
Subject: DG: COUNTDOWN CONTRIBUTORS


Dear Countdown Contributors,

First of all, I want to thank everyone for their work on the agency 
templates. Your efforts went a long way towards making Countdown what it is
. 
. . a really huge book stuffed to bursting with info.

Two things:

1) If anyone hasn't gotten their contributor copy, let me know at once.

2) Its about time we started sending out payments. Since some of the 
contributors are living abroad or are foreign nationals, it has been 
suggested that they could get more for their money (and avoid those nasty 
bank charges) if they took their $.03 per word in the form of products or 
free shipping from Pagan Publishing. I encourage all contributors to write
me 
and let me know if they prefer cash or product.

Thanks again,

A. Scott Glancy, Business Manager

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:41:09 -0400
From: Bruce Ballon <Bruce_Ballon@camh.net>
Subject: DG: RE: RE: COUNTDOWN CONTRIBUTORS

My humble apologies for posting my e-mail to Pagan to the list. Sorry all.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:58:28 -0700
From: Phil A Posehn <paposehn@juno.com>
Subject: Re: DG: The Institution

If someone could supply the Jesuit motto in Latin perhaps we ought to
adopt it for our own. A few words in Latin are so good for giving one a
sense of lofty purpose.


Phil

On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:37:43 -0400 (EDT) The Man in Black
<mib@cyberspace.org> writes:

>> does DG really have they can show to justify their existence?
>
>DG has no justification. Everything done under the green triangle is
>illegal and every agent knows it.

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:50:54 -0700
From: Jeff Ewing <ewing@postbox.csi.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: The Institution

At 09:58 AM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote:
>If someone could supply the Jesuit motto in Latin perhaps we ought to
>adopt it for our own. A few words in Latin are so good for giving one a
>sense of lofty purpose.

Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam?!?  Doesn't sound very DG-ish to me!

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:30:13 -0700
From: Phil A Posehn <paposehn@juno.com>
Subject: Re: DG: The Institution

I was refering to,"If the end is lawful, the means are also lawful" which
is what I was told it was.

Phil


On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:50:54 -0700 Jeff Ewing
<ewing@postbox.csi.cuny.edu> writes:
>At 09:58 AM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>If someone could supply the Jesuit motto in Latin perhaps we ought to
>>adopt it for our own. A few words in Latin are so good for giving one 
>a
>>sense of lofty purpose.
>
>Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam?!?  Doesn't sound very DG-ish to me!
>
>Jeff

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:11:55 -0700
From: Jeff Ewing <ewing@postbox.csi.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: The Institution

At 12:30 PM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I was refering to,"If the end is lawful, the means are also lawful" which
>is what I was told it was.

I ain't touchin' that one with a 3 meter stick, which, as you know, is a 10 
1/2 foot pole.

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:06:29 +0100
From: "JT" <jonno@enterprise.net>
Subject: Re: DG: The Institution

- -----Original Message-----
From: The Man in Black <mib@cyberspace.org>
To: Delta Green List <deltagreen@nocturne.org>
Date: 06 October 1999 03:47
Subject: Re: DG: The Institution



>It's all about media spin. No one would ever give Phenomen-X any serious
credibility whatsoever, no matter what evidence they may hold. Without CNN,
MSNBC, FOX news and so forth, DG becomes another Majestic wacko conspiracy
theory.

Absolutely. and let's face it, to the average joe or even the average
reporter, that's exactly what it sounds like. Anything outside the norm is
treated in two ways by the media:

a) Disregard it completely.
b) Dress it up and make it funny. Can you get X-Files in the headline or the
intro?

At least, that's the way any paper I've worked in would treat it. As for TV,
things would be just as bad if not worse. Any Deep One/Ghoul or whatever
produced as `evidence' would be rejected as a SFX fake. I think the Roswell
autopsies have been mentioned already, and they're a good yardstick to judge
this question by.

It doesn't come down just to media spin, it comes down to the spin an
individual citizen will  put on it all. I remember going to see a limited
screening of the Santilli footage in London, and coming out of it everybody
seemed to have taken different stuff out of it. ``This looks real, this
looks fake''... whatever.

Plus, basically at heart, people believe at some level the government is
rotten to the core and politicans are lying little toerags, but don't care
enough to do much about it.


And remember: you can't believe anything you read in the paper anyway....

>This can become a real problem, which has been discussed before. DG is only
78 folks or so at any given time. The conspiracy is way too small to be
involved in more than one or two historical events a decade. I would also
estimate that only one or two national/international media stories would be
linked to DG every year, about the same amount of major outbreak events not
related to red herring or small scale investigations.

On the other hand, because of the circles they move in, DG is much more
likely to be involved in something big on a semi-regular basis. They will be
drawn to large-scale events like Waco, just to poke their noses in. Granted,
much of the work may be done by friendlies...

Like Monica... does she have the Innsmouth Look or what??

Jonathan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:27:25 -0400
From: Daniel Harms <dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: Shan Question Part 2

Players - you know the drill...

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S



At 11:33 AM 10/6/99 +0100, Peter Devlin wrote:

>I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Harms that we Keepers often make the
presumption that one Mythos critter knows all about other Mythos critters,
spells et al. However, the list of major Mythos tomes which PISCES has
access to includes a number which should contain gate rituals.

Did you know that the only major tomes in the CoC game that 
contain the Gate spell or a variant thereof are the Book of Eibon
and the Seven Cryptical Books?  Certainly looks that way from my
search...

But let's say they do have a book, and that the book does contain the
Gate spell.  We then have to assume that a) someone in Pisces 
knows that (not too unlikely) and b) the shan are going to find out.
Frankly, I don't think the latter is likely.  I can't see a shan (who 
specializes in torturing lesser sentient beings) thinking that one of 
these soft creatures actually had a useful idea that could get them
off the planet, much less that the insects could find the answers in
some centuries-old book written by one of these mewling 
fleshy things.

Besides, the shan are influential in Pisces, but they don't control
everyone.  My guess is that they would be quite paranoid about
asking everyone in the organization whether they have any useful
information about extraterrestrial travel.  Then again, they might
be willing to trade with MJ-12 or someone else who has proven
that they might have found something useful...

Yrs.,


Daniel Harms     dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu
The Internet:  Learn what you know.  Share what you don't.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:26:07 +0900
From: "David Farnell" <daf@iwa.att.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: DG: Wasted bandwidth

From: The Man in Black <mib@cyberspace.org>
> We need to get a calendar, that day in 1970, Reggie Day in '94, St. Jerome
> Day, Maybe a few Ghoul feast Days, some astrological stuff, and of course
> December 6, 1972.

Very good idea--let's make a list of all important DG/CoC days on which to
raise your (beer / sake / mango juice/ space mead / S.T.H.U) glasses high.
Don't forget HPL's birthday. Put it in the FAQ.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:58:07 -0400 
From: "McGloin, Michael" <Michael.McGloin@olsten.com>
Subject: DG: Skills: Credit rating and Bureaucracy

In looking at the various rules for social interaction in CoC, I was
thinking that perhaps there was a better use for the credit rating skill
than the way it is currently used for DG. In Delta green we currently have a
Fast Talk skill for quick and shallow situations such as bluffs and cons. In
addition we have a Persuasion skill for longer and more complex situations
such as debates, arguments and as well indoctrination. What I was thinking
of was treating Credit Rating like Credibility would act as a means by which
characters could represent their overall power, rank and wealth. Thus a
Delta Green agent from the CD who wanted to impose a quarantine would use
their Credit Rating to convince the authorities to comply. In other words I
am trying to find a better way for Delta Green Operatives to abuse  their
authority. In fact I concidered changing it to Authority. 

The other way to go might be some kind of beefed up guide for occupational
powers and abilities ala Conspiracy X. For instance, a CDC Immunologist
possess certain powers, these might be outlined in greater detail. 

The other question I had was why doesn't DG have a Bureaucrat skill like
Admin to reflect the ability to cut through red tape and get the job done. I
have always enjoyed that old bureaucrat that could sight by verse any
applicable regulation and the easy way to get around it. In a game where we
are spending so much time dealing in bureaucracy, I really think this is a
skill that could fill a real need. 

If you prefer to just do all this in your head or on your own no problem. I
am just curious if other people have found a way to do this with the system
or are interested in trying.

Michael McGloin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:19:49 -0400
From: Daniel Harms <dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: DG: Skills: Credit rating and Bureaucracy

At 07:58 PM 10/6/99 -0400, Michael McGloin wrote:

>In looking at the various rules for social interaction in CoC, I was
>thinking that perhaps there was a better use for the credit rating skill
>than the way it is currently used for DG. In Delta green we currently
>have a Fast Talk skill for quick and shallow situations such as bluffs 
>and cons. In addition we have a Persuasion skill for longer and more 
>complex situations such as debates, arguments and as well 
>indoctrination. 

Don't forget Oratory.  ;-)

>What I was thinking of was treating Credit Rating like Credibility 
>would act as a means by which characters could represent their 
>overall power, rank and wealth. Thus a Delta Green agent from the 
>CD who wanted to impose a quarantine would use their Credit 
>Rating to convince the authorities to comply. In other words I
>am trying to find a better way for Delta Green Operatives to abuse  >their
authority. In fact I concidered changing it to Authority. 

I'd steer away from this - you'll quickly be awash in modifiers and
such really quickly.  Bureaucracy may be a better idea, but it still
has many of the same problems.

>If you prefer to just do all this in your head or on your own no 
>problem. I am just curious if other people have found a way to do 
>this with the system or are interested in trying.

I'd do it in my head, but...

OPTIONAL RULE: BUREAUCRACY POINTS
{Partially ripped off from a game review on RPG.net)

Bureaucracy points:  Your character starts out with a modest 
number of points (say 5) in this skill.  Whenever your character
wants to call on some favors (get a tank, a SWAT team, a CDC
quarantine), they have to spend a certain amount to get it.  Paying
for something that your agency generally covers should be less
expensive...

Points may be regained if the Keeper judges the character has done
well in their job outside of DG activities.  In addition, if the op using
the extra equipment turns up something that can be justified 
OUTSIDE OF A SUPERNATURAL CONTEXT (kidnapped 
children, arsenals of weaponry, drugs), they may have some of their
points returned (or, in rare cases, even gain points if what's turned
up more than justifies the expenditure).

Yrs.,


Daniel Harms     dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu
The Internet:  Learn what you know.  Share what you don't.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:11:56 EDT
From: Appelion@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: COUNTDOWN CONTRIBUTORS

In a message dated 10/5/99 10:18:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
mib@cyberspace.org writes:

<< The MiB went down and bought the People's copy! >>
ANDREA's gonna come knockin'  The People ain't supposed to know 'bout this.

        The People's Agent

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:23:17 EDT
From: Appelion@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: Re: bradbury

In a message dated 10/6/99 4:09:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
G_H_O@t-online.de writes:

<< In my copy of The Martian Cronicles (Heyne, ISBN 3-453-07413-0) Usher II is
 located just between The Naming of Names and The Old Ones. It even fits in
 between
 the dates given in my copy:     2004-2005 The Naming of Names
                                              April 2005  Usher II
                                              August 2005  The Old Ones
  >>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are all of the Martian Chronicles contiguos?  It 
was my understanding that he tended more towards the HPL unplanned than the 
RAH make a little chart method.  On a side note, does anyone use Colors 
(damned Brits!)?  I don't consider them Mythos at all.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:25:21 EDT
From: Appelion@aol.com
Subject: Re: DG: RE: Shan Question Part 2

In a message dated 10/6/99 8:16:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sivey@zealot.com 
writes:

<< funky >>
That's "Fungi," not "Funky."  And I'd have to say I don't think the M-G are 
funky at all.  Charnel Dreams, now...

        Agent Xavier

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:51:58 -0500
From: "Matt Cowger" <mcowger@kc.rr.com>
Subject: DG: A Spooky Speech

> When man first landed on the moon 30 years ago, President Nixon had a
> speech all ready in case man could not get off again. A contingency
> statement was prepared for Nixon, an eerie, poignant tribute that he would
> deliver while the astronauts were still alive but when there was no longer
> any hope for them. The memo, entitled "In Event of Moon Disaster," is
dated
> July 18, 1969, two days before the moon landing. Nixon never had to act on
> it. Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin made it safely off the moon, back into
> the command module with Michael Collins, and home. According to the memo,
> in the event of disaster Nixon was advised to call each of the
> "widows-to-be" before reading the statement to the nation. Then NASA would
> cut off communication with the stranded astronauts and a clergyman would
> "adopt the same procedure as a burial at sea, commending their souls to
> 'the deepest of the deep,' concluding with the Lord's Prayer." It has long
> been rumored that astronauts landing on the moon carried suicide capsules
> in case their return became impossible. The Apollo XI astronauts spent
more
> than 21 hours on the moon, watched by millions around the world on TV.
> Nixon had the happy duty of putting in a phone call to them while they
> stood on the dusty lunar surface. But had something gone terribly wrong,
> these words were prepared:
>
> "Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace
> will stay on the moon to rest in peace. These brave men, Neil Armstrong
and
> Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery. But they also
> know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice. These two men are
> laying down their lives in mankind's most noble goal: the search for truth
> and understanding. They will be mourned by their families and friends;
they
> will be mourned by their nation; they will be mourned by the people of the
> world; they will be mourned by a Mother Earth that dared send two of her
> sons into the unknown. In their exploration, they stirred the people of
the
> world to feel as one; in their sacrifice, they bind more tightly the
> brotherhood of man. In ancient days, men looked at stars and saw their
> heroes in the constellations. In modern times, we do much the same, but
our
> heroes are epic men of flesh and blood. Others will follow, and surely
find
> their way home. Man's search will not be denied. But these men were the
> first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts. For every human
> being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there
> is some corner of another world that is forever mankind."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:58:52 -0500
From: Brent Dragoo <dragoob@wabash.edu>
Subject: DG: Double Shots

Howdy, Mr. Glancy.

    I'm responding to some things you posted on the DGML. The Countdown
Contributors stuff, and the Dark Theatres stuff. Sooo

1-I'd like to not be a greedy bastard, but I would really prefer cash to
product. Gimme a classy Pagan Publishing Cheque, if they even exist. By the
way, you guys are amazingly generous on this offer. I would have done it all
just to be a part of the book. Offering the fans to work for you.....thats
just exemplary taste. You guys are the noblemen amongst the gaming industry.
Thank you

2-Onto Dark Theatres. Something not soo good. Something....well....a bit
bad. Alien Intelligence was very good. Captured everything that needed to be
captured about DG. Dark Theatres really didn't do that for me. The stories
didn't seem so much about DG as they seemed about some people connected with
DG, having little run-ins with the mythos. They should be about the
ins-and-outs of the company, how people get connected, the toll it takes.
Talk about Alphonse's dinner habits. The vague mentions didn't do it for me.
Okay. I'll just run down the ones I wrote, and stop wasting time

The binding fell way the fuck apart way too fast. Six pages in, and its
gone. Pages lost. A bit charming, as a pulp comic would do the same thing.
But the charm wore off. The binding was a problem in all areas of the book.
The cover and design was good, but piss-poor production quality. Some ugly
typo errors, too.

1-You wrote "Once Again, From the Top"-4.5-Very, very good rendition of the
Innsmouth Raid. Precisely what I needed to know. A little heavy on the
action, but then again, what else could it be. The writing made it VERY easy
to understand what was going on, where all the soldiers were, what was going
on. Impressively demonstrated what kind of talents you have. Good
characters, good situations, organized with precision. Good job

2-Astronomy-2-Rambled on and on. Glances of wonder, little hints that maybe
it would be great. Ended up not being great.

3-Russian Dolls-3.5-HPL crossed with modern space time stuff

4-As I see it-4-Good, what I like to read. Very cool moments and writing.
But, seemed to be missing a buildup, and even a payoff.

5-Suicide Watch-2.5-Intruiging, but then shot itself in fifteen directions.
Couldn't pick up the pieces it lost.

6-Good night-2.5-Running on Empty

7-The Fast Track-3.5-In the right direction

And there you have it, Adam Scott Glancy. Take it easy, and keep up the good
work. You write some good, well, excellent stuff. Formal, classy. Like a
really good history professor, I guess.

Anyway.

Brent Dragoo. Man on Fire.
607 S. Grant St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:54:11 -0500
From: Brent Dragoo <dragoob@wabash.edu>
Subject: DG: Gah! No need to read previous message. I insist

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --Boundary_(ID_fU0LP5UlINbuHf5hQdmv9Q)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Well, dont I feel stupid. Sending out my personal mail for all to read. I bet you bastards all glanced over it anyway, didn't you? Well, now you all know where I live, and what I think. well...

Sigh.

I won't even hazard a vague threat. Oh well. 

brent. man on fire. 

- --Boundary_(ID_fU0LP5UlINbuHf5hQdmv9Q)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Well, dont I feel stupid. Sending out my personal mail for all 
to read. I bet you bastards all glanced over it anyway, didn't you? Well, now 
you all know where I live, and what I think. well...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Sigh.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I won't even hazard a vague threat. Oh well. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>brent. man on fire. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- --Boundary_(ID_fU0LP5UlINbuHf5hQdmv9Q)--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:31:30 GMT0BST
From: Robert Thomas <ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk>
Subject: DG: Ghroth

Hello All,

Well it's been nice knowing you all looks like Ghroth's on its way!  :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_467000/467572.st
m

"the new planet would be 30,000 times more distant
from the Sun than the Earth, putting it a significant
fraction of the distance to the nearest star. 

What is more, its seems that the new planet cannot be
a true member of our Sun's family of planets. It may be a
planet that was born elsewhere, roamed throughout the
galaxy only to be captured on the outskirts of our own
planetary system."

BCNU in the Bunker.

Rob.
J.R.E.Thomas.
ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk

Our kind. Us people. All of us that
started the game with a crooked cue,
that wanted so much and got so little,
that meant so good and did so bad.
                   
                     Jim Thompson
            'The Killer Inside Me'

http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/tshirt.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:47:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Val_Salvis@webtv.net
Subject: Re: DG: Ghroth

You know I seem to remember people talking about a "phantom planet" in
our system like ten years ago!  It seemed to come in and out of the path
of pluto in our system. Does anyone else remember this?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:35:17 -0500
From: "Shane Ivey" <sivey@zealot.com>
Subject: DG: Bioweapons

- -|- DELTA GREEN SECURE SERVER v24.6 -|- PGP CODING ENABLED -|-

There is another open-source article which operatives should be apprised of.
If weapons capable of racial discrimination are described as a decade away
in the press, what might be already developed in off-record labs run by
certain hostile groups with an interest in such things?

...

DOCTORS TACKLE WEAPONS OF THE FUTURE

Genetic breakthroughs could help build weapons

The latest medical technology will probably be turned against humanity in
the form of lethal biological and genetic weapons, warn doctors.
The profession is holding a conference to examine the threat to health - and
work out ways of getting these new weapons outlawed.

Dr Vivienne Nathanson, head of health policy at the British Medical
Association says that advances in genetics mean that the world is more
dangerous than even at the height of the Cold War.

She says that the world is potentially only a decade away from weapons that
can discriminate between races...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_465000/465142.stm


be seeing you,
Christopher

------------------------------

End of deltagreen-digest V2 #93
*******************************