From: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org (deltagreen-digest) To: deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Subject: deltagreen-digest V2 #97 Reply-To: Delta Green List Sender: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Errors-To: owner-deltagreen-digest@nocturne.org Precedence: bulk deltagreen-digest Tuesday, October 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 097 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:00:39 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Skills: Credit rating and Bureaucracy From: REFLECTING SKIN > Credit Rating as it is described in the book (and since it has no effect on > your starting cash) would probably be better called: > CREDIBILITY - Your reputation as a competant member of your field, or a > respectable member of society. This is how it's been used for years, so the name change makes perfect sense. In modern games, especially, your actual credit rating would really only be revealed by a computer search (and a $20 fee)--anyone can _seem_ to have a higher credit rating in face-to-face meetings, depending on their acting ability, taste in clothing, bearing, accent, etc. That could be "Credibility" skill (an amalgam of Fast Talk, Debate, and Acting, but with its own flavor). I make the characters' actual credit rating derive from their background (income, property, whether they've had to declare bankruptcy due to chasing monsters halfway across the globe), not a skill. > I have also added an additional "Occult" like skill for the modern era: > CONSPIRACY THEORY, like occult has no bearing on what is ACTUALLY going on, > but represents the players knowledge of modern conspiracy theories, > subculture, etc. Great for Mcguffins... Cool idea. I'd place this under the "other" skills--I find the DG character sheet too crowded with skills that only specialists would take, so I've revised it to have only the "core skills" that nearly every investigator would have (Drive, Sneak, First Aid, and about 20 others), and then blank spaces for "other" skills, which can be drawn from the regular list or simply made up by the player (with Keeper approval). This leaves more room for the weapons, which need all that "damage" and "rate of fire" detail. I've found that even non-violent CDC agents like to have all the stats for their punch, kick, grapple, handgun, mace, syringe full of ebola skills (just kidding on that last one, though it wouldn't surprise me if someone tried it). > and I have broken the CTHULHU MYTHOS skill into just Mythos :________ > (i.e. Mythos : Skoptsi 1%) in order to seperate what is a vast and > unconnected cycle of things into little nasty bits for the players. > SAN MAX is modified by the Highest Mythos Skill level and by the Second > Highest Mythos Skill level. This may be a good idea--I've thought about something like it, but haven't play-tested it yet. Have you been using this for a while, and if so, how well does it work? Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:26:39 +0300 (EET DST) From: Mikko Kauppinen Subject: DG: Operation Market Garden Somewhat related to the topic: I highly recommend the computer game Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far for those interested in the operation or small-scale WWII combat in general. Yes, it is a real-time strategy game, but it really has nothing to do with Command & Conquer and the like. CC: ABTF feels quite realistic and is more beautifully presented than traditional hex-based strategy games. You can hear your men screaming in panic and see them drop in bloody heaps to an unseen machingun or sniper. Also, the visual power of a flamethrower is considerable. :) Mikko Kauppinen - -- We were perfect when we started I've been wondering where we've gone - -Counting Crows ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 1999 09:12:10 BST From: Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk, "BSc." Subject: DG: A DG Calendar To: deltagreen@nocturne.org From: Jacob Busby, IT Consultant, Tech Futures, IT Data Centre, Hampshire County Council, The Castle, Winchester. Tel: (01962) 845375 Subject: A DG Calendar >Innsmouth Day >Reggie Day >De-sanctioning Day (maybe 2 of these) >1st Unofficial Op Day >Re-org Day (devoted to paperwork, of course) >Camerone Day (incidentally, what's your source on this?) >Roswell day Didn't we come up with St. Jude, the patron saint of lost causes, as the patron saint for DG? Shouldn't his day also be in this calendar? Otherwise this is a cool (or should that be kew-ell) idea. _________ "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted" /__ __/ /__ __/ / / . / Groucho Marx /___/ /____/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:29:55 GMT0BST From: Robert Thomas Subject: DG: Gunfondlers Bad News Hello All, The following link will be a bit of a shock to everyone who enjoys the odd gunfondling session in their DG games: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_471000/47 1003.stm all I can say is Arrrrgh! Rob. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 99 10:36:52 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: Mysterious Planet X All those e-mails about Planet X were really juicy. Does nobody remember the scenario pack 'Spawn of Azathoth'? It features a planetoid called Nemesis (duh!) which orbits Earth at a great distance. Bits of Nemesis (semi-sentient seeds) occasionally get pulled towards Sol and the Mi Go scoop them up wherever possible. One such seed was responsible for the eventual creation of the Asteroid Belt and another was the source of Tunguska explosion. Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 99 11:35:09 +0100 From: Peter Devlin Subject: DG: BtMoM and Delta Green (Spoilers) Oh dear... SPOILER FOR BTMOM SPOILER FOR BTMOM SPOILER FOR BTMOM SPOILER FOR BTMOM SPOILER FOR BTMOM SPOILER FOR BTMOM >If you find a good way to incorporate BtMoM into DG, please share >it with the list. I've read BtMoM with an eye to doing this, but ran into >a stumper I'm partway through a 1930's flashback campaign which featured BTMOM as one strand. Simple questions first though. >those Antarctic mountains are just too high. Lowering them weakens the >story. I held a three-way discussion with Chaz Engan and a friend of mine who has been a pilot for some years. Anecdotal evidence from the period indicated that the Miskatonic Range was an imperial gonad-hair too high for the operational ceiling of the Boeing aircraft. In theory the planes would have handled exceedingly poorly at altitude and would have stalled climbing into the Pass. Ultimately I had to go with Chaz' comment - there had to be a balancing effect between the need to make the City and the Pharos isolated and the need to have explorers make it to the Plateau. If you can live with the scientific errors in HPLs original story then you can accept a little fudging in aircraft performance. In a DG context the main problem is that those Mountains don't show on Antarctic maps / orbital photos. I'm using a combination of things to explain that away. Firstly, the quakes arising from the explorers interference have caused the Plateau to sink. BTMOM indicates that the entire Antarctic continent is riddled with conduits which run to / from the God Trap. This mining must have caused some parts of the continent to weaken over the millenia, particularly those above the inland sea i.e. the City. My take on the aftermath of BTMOM is that at some point pre-WWII the Antarctic continent changed rather drastically. However this happened, the Pharos and the God Trap have to have survived but the Plateau and the Miskatonics have all but vanished. Secondly, the range in which the God Trap sits is even higher than the Miskatonic Range. The text in BTMOM notes that the Trap is almost always concealed by unnatural storms. As the ETs repaired the Construct this unnatural camouflage got a whole lot better, to the point where it can fox satellite cameras and screw up modern navigation aids. Thirdly, the survivors of the Starkweather-Moore-Lexington expedition have banded together to conceal the existence of the ETs. Acacia Lexington has used her fortune to clandestinely arrange for Antarctic surveys to bypass the area around the Trap. Others have been sabotaged and a few, very few, people brought in on part of the secret (but not all). This group, the Lexington Institute for Antarctic Research, has funded and staffed many expeditions, including private submarine exploration of the Weddel Sea (where the degenrate ETs still live). Think of them as a DG-like group dedicated to concealing the God Trap from humans. And they still exist today. Fourth, the Barsmeier-Falken expedition and other German interests. As BTMOM states, the BF expedition concentrated on exploring at the base of the Filchener Ice Shelf (IIRC). Subsequent German expeditions have concentrated in all the wrong areas, either through error or deliberate misinformation supplied by the Lexington group. These 4 explanations may seem rather flimsy. But then we are discussing an RPG genre which features cannibal Nazis and extradimensional entities. That which works for me may not work for others. In the 1990's LIAR have links to Miskatonic Uni as well as other mundane groups such as WHO, British Antarctic Survey and similar. I have chosen not to affiliate them to any large groups such as DG, Karotechia, MJ12. Their remit is still in place until the late 1990s. The presence of the ETs is finally revealed to the world in a controlled manner when scientists (LIAR and friendlies) contact "an alien race who have landed at the Pole" (I've posted a synopsis of this to DGML about 2 months past). Antarctica is the focus of much international chest-beating before it is declared alien diplomatic territory. In exchange the ETs hand over some of the secrets of human DNA e.g. the cure for cancer, juicy retroviruses and other such nonsense. The ET-human alliance is a setup as LIAR can no longer guarantee to keep things secret. LIAR friendlies are the main contactees. Government agents and suchlike (DG, MJ12 etc) are initially rejected by the ETs or simply disappear. MJ12 get it in the ass as they no longer control valuable alien contact AND the Mi Go are terrified of the ETs. Governments are secretly informed of the prisoner the ETs are holding - they all cooperate. This disinformation campaign works up to the point where the End Times begin, about 15 years after the ETs become media sensations, an era of globalism ensues and scientists start to buld careers around xenobiology and the like. During the End Times the ETs wil side with DG but it will be too late. All of this is going up on the Web site soon. I'd be keen to see comments :-) Cheers :-) --> :-0 Peter Devlin Bell, Book and Candle - http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns.html The South Side - http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/lovecraft/411/south/ Email - pdevlin@scotsys.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:28:01 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: A Spooky Speech DELTA GREEN SECURE SERVER v24.6 * FILE VIEWER 3.2 * PGP DECODING ENABLED * ALWAYS WATCH YOUR BACK From: > Hmm... Any thoughts as to DG funerals? Normal, of course, but the cell > likely shows, in black suits with green ties of course... I prefer the solution from _The Razor's Edge_: when someone dies, everyone who knew him reminisces about all his bad habits, perversions, etc, and essentially spits on his memory. Good way to keep the ghosts from hanging around. Seriously, though, I figure we generally avoid going to our comrades' funerals (in those rare instances where there is anything to bury). Don't want to be identified, after all--you know there'll be MJ-12 operatives in the trees with cameras. A few days later, DG agents show up in the dead of night and share around a bottle of Chinese rat wine, pouring a bit out on the grave. Oh, and cremations are de rigeur! Can't have those ghouls or Tcho-tchos eating our brains. Dave "Willy Splitter" Farnell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:33:28 +0900 From: "David Farnell" Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos DELTA GREEN SECURE SERVER v24.6 * FILE VIEWER 3.2 * PGP DECODING ENABLED * ALWAYS WATCH YOUR BACK From: Shoggoth > And if there is a country/people pair more opposite , are Spain/Spanish and > Japan/Japanese , I can swear it! But then, opposites attract, eh? I have several students who are also taking flamenco classes... > (What the > hell dave japs racial perceptions with earthquakes? Lateral-N-Dimensional > thinking maybe?) Are you talkin to me? ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? (Sorry, _Taxi Driver_ flashback, there.) Anyway, maybe it was a typo, or a Freudian slip. But you have called up that which you cannot put down! Right, Japanese racial perceptions of earthquakes...um...hrm...can't really think of any. But, you can be sure a people who have as much experience with earthquakes would surely have contacts with the Cthonians, or some deity who can intervene with the Cthonians, to try to keep the earthquakes away. Not necessarily a cult, but rather sacrifices to propitiate the gods. Still, any contact with the Mythos will have its corrosive effects... Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:10:39 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: DG: COUNTDOWN Greetings. Last night robbers entered my house and laid it waste. The bastards failed to notice the big fat box that the postman had left by the door, and therefore, while some cash and a few other items are missing, DG:COUNTDOWN is now firmly in my grasp. I'm totally blown away by the book. My compliments to all involved, and to the guiding trimurti (Detwiller, Glancy & Tynes) in particular. Now I'll just have to put a chair back in position and start reading the tome. Cheers (so to speak) Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:40:45 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: RE: Fresh meat Welcome aboard, Zach. I for one am always looking for good photos or anecdotes about D.C. to aid in staging games and fiction there, so I'd be glad to see your material on the web or post it at Delta-Green.com. Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Conform Sent: Saturday, October 09, 1999 6:54 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: Fresh meat Hi, I'm a newcomer to the list. I've always been somewhat averse to lurking, so I thought I'd introduce myself. I'm 22, I'm a freelance writer, and I recently moved to the DC area to co-found an internet startup. My free time is pretty much booked through the new year, but I'm planning to run a campaign loosely based around Delta Green starting in January. In the meantime I'm covering all my bases -- I want to make this bleed authenticity, so I plan to visit many of the public faces of the agencies, pick up the complimentary literature, do some research, etc. I'm not sure if there's any call for it, but if so, I'm more than willing to post any information I find to either my personal webpage or a centralized Delta Green resource page, if any exist. I don't know if many of these agencies will let me take pictures, but if I can I'll scan 'em and put them up on my webpage. Best, -Zach ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:31:07 -0700 From: "Patrick Leonard" Subject: DG: RE: Operation Market Garden Also somewhat related to the topic: Close Combat III: The Russian Front. Even better then CC: ABTF. Patrick - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Mikko Kauppinen Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:27 AM To: Delta Green mailing list Subject: DG: Operation Market Garden Somewhat related to the topic: I highly recommend the computer game Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far for those interested in the operation or small-scale WWII combat in general. Yes, it is a real-time strategy game, but it really has nothing to do with Command & Conquer and the like. CC: ABTF feels quite realistic and is more beautifully presented than traditional hex-based strategy games. You can hear your men screaming in panic and see them drop in bloody heaps to an unseen machingun or sniper. Also, the visual power of a flamethrower is considerable. :) Mikko Kauppinen - -- We were perfect when we started I've been wondering where we've gone - -Counting Crows ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:29:05 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: DG: V2 Can anyone recommend a site which might have open-source schematics of old Nazi-era rockets like the V2? Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:49:37 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: RE: New DG Keeper seeks advice Agent Xavier asked.... ><< Davide Mana has done a great job of > fleshing out the Order of the Sword of Saint Jerome >> >Can someone send me the URL? http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/zenith/134/stjerome.htm Ask and it shalt be given onto you.... Cheers! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:51:09 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos Greetings, part-time DeNiro impersonator and full-time SuperDave wrote > Right, Japanese racial perceptions of >earthquakes...um...hrm...can't really think of any. But, you can be sure a >people who have as much experience with earthquakes would surely have >contacts with the Cthonians, or some deity who can intervene with the >Cthonians, to try to keep the earthquakes away. Not necessarily a cult, but >rather sacrifices to propitiate the gods. Still, any contact with the Mythos >will have its corrosive effects... Nai-No-Kami is the god (well, the kami, anyway) of Earthquakes in Japan. When he gets on a roll, he likes to party hard with Kagu-Zuchi, the god of Fire, Taka-Okami the god of Rain and O-Wata-Tsu-Mi the god of the Sea. [Derlethian mood, anybody? Shudde'mell, Hastur, Ithaqa and Cthulhu?] Anyway, some folksy guys thing Nai-No-Kami can get pretty irritated by concrete and steel buildings and by deep drillings and probes. He has a standing grudge with geophisicists, evidently. Just two cents from the Dept. of Geological Folklore, Uni.To. Take care! Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 03:12:11 +0900 From: "Noyes" Subject: RE: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos > (What the > hell dave japs racial perceptions with earthquakes? Lateral-N-Dimensional > thinking maybe?) Japanese traditionally associate earthquakes with catfish. I've heard people say that they cause earthquakes, and I've heard others who say the fish can just predict them. Perhaps a relationship with the Cthonians? Jay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:33:45 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: DG: Re: RE: Operation Market Garden - -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Leonard To: Delta Green List Date: 11 October 1999 16:41 Subject: DG: RE: Operation Market Garden >Also somewhat related to the topic: > >Close Combat III: The Russian Front. > >Even better then CC: ABTF. > >Patrick > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org >[mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Mikko Kauppinen >Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:27 AM >To: Delta Green mailing list >Subject: DG: Operation Market Garden > > >Somewhat related to the topic: > >I highly recommend the computer game Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far On a related topic, is anyone interested in DG related scenarios for the above? I did a couple of Karotechia ones for CCIII... Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:03:23 +1300 From: Williamson Mark Subject: DG: RE: RE: Operation Market Garden And the best news is that Close Combat IV is under development and should be out for Christmas. The Close Combat games do an excellent job of modelling WWII battles, can't recommend them enough. - -Mark ________________________ If you do some online shopping you should know that can get up to 25% on all your orders at major on-line retailers at: http://www.ebates.com/index.jhtml?referrer=lizark > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Leonard [SMTP:pleonard@bren.ucsb.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 1999 4:31 am > To: Delta Green List > Subject: DG: RE: Operation Market Garden > > Also somewhat related to the topic: > > Close Combat III: The Russian Front. > > Even better then CC: ABTF. > > Patrick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org > [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Mikko Kauppinen > Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:27 AM > To: Delta Green mailing list > Subject: DG: Operation Market Garden > > > Somewhat related to the topic: > > I highly recommend the computer game Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far > for those interested in the operation or small-scale WWII combat > in general. Yes, it is a real-time strategy game, but it really has > nothing to do with Command & Conquer and the like. CC: ABTF feels > quite realistic and is more beautifully presented than traditional > hex-based strategy games. You can hear your men screaming in panic > and see them drop in bloody heaps to an unseen machingun or sniper. > Also, the visual power of a flamethrower is considerable. :) > > Mikko Kauppinen > > -- > We were perfect when we started > I've been wondering where we've gone > -Counting Crows ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:11:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jay W. Dugger" Subject: Re: DG: V2 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Shane Ivey wrote: > Can anyone recommend a site which might have open-source schematics of old > Nazi-era rockets like the V2? Try the Smithsonian or the Library of Congress. I believe the Wehrmacht documents belong to their collections. You might have to go in person to get them, and if you don't have USA citzenship you might not be permitted to see them. I also think you can get technical documents of 1950s vintage missles like Nike and Atlas. > > > > Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com > Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com > - --------- Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel til_e@hotmail.com : duggerj@reed.edu - --------- Sometimes the delete key is your best friend. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:48:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Don Juneau Subject: Re: DG: V2 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Jay W. Dugger wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Shane Ivey wrote: > > > Can anyone recommend a site which might have open-source schematics of old > > Nazi-era rockets like the V2? > > Try the Smithsonian or the Library of Congress. I believe the > Wehrmacht documents belong to their collections. You might have to go in > person to get them, and if you don't have USA citzenship you might not be > permitted to see them. I also think you can get technical documents of > 1950s vintage missles like Nike and Atlas. How detailed are you looking for? Actual blueprints/working drawings/manuals and such? There's some material online for US ICBMs, which I've not looked at as much as I have the installation plans... I know there's a site that details a German air-to-air missile, with all kinds of neat info and pictures. (The guy owns either a prototype or a hand-built replica.) Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:03:30 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: V2 Jay wrote: >I also think you can get technical documents of >1950s vintage missles like Nike and Atlas. These may be findable via the following URL: http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/siteindex/welcome.html Which belongs to the military history section of the Redstone Arsenal - a place with a very interesting history relating to rockets, missiles and chemical weapons (ahem). Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:53:45 +0200 From: Davide Mana Subject: Re: DG: V2 Greetings. >Can anyone recommend a site which might have open-source schematics of old >Nazi-era rockets like the V2? No site at the moment, but the Air & Space Museum in Washington DC used to print a nice booklet about the development of missiles that I'm sure included a V2 cross-section. My copy is lost here somewhere. Checking their web site (don't ask me the URL) might be a good idea, too. Just a suggestion. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:12:17 -0400 From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu (Graeme Price) Subject: Re: DG: COUNTDOWN Davide (nothing left worth stealing) Mana wrote: >Last night robbers entered my house and laid it waste. >The bastards failed to notice the big fat box that the postman had left by >the door, and therefore, while some cash and a few other items are missing, >DG:COUNTDOWN is now firmly in my grasp. The bastards! Hope they didn't get anything important. Mind you, it seems a little odd. I mean, PISCES and Majestic would check the post first thing... which leads me to conclude that you were obviously burgled by the postman. Elementary my dear Mana. Which suggests an interesting idea to thwart future thieves. Simply parcel up all your valuable belongings and leave them on your doorstep, where the robbers will simply ignore them, break into your house and (with any luck) just have to be content with stealing your dirty laundry and used dishes. Or maybe not. Seriously, I hope things turn out OK and the local police get the buggers! Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:34:58 -0500 From: "Shane Ivey" Subject: RE: DG: V2 Actually I think I've got all the info we needed. Thanks for the tips! Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Don Juneau Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 2:48 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: Re: DG: V2 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Jay W. Dugger wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Shane Ivey wrote: > > > Can anyone recommend a site which might have open-source schematics of old > > Nazi-era rockets like the V2? > > Try the Smithsonian or the Library of Congress. I believe the > Wehrmacht documents belong to their collections. You might have to go in > person to get them, and if you don't have USA citzenship you might not be > permitted to see them. I also think you can get technical documents of > 1950s vintage missles like Nike and Atlas. How detailed are you looking for? Actual blueprints/working drawings/manuals and such? There's some material online for US ICBMs, which I've not looked at as much as I have the installation plans... I know there's a site that details a German air-to-air missile, with all kinds of neat info and pictures. (The guy owns either a prototype or a hand-built replica.) Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:19:02 -0400 (EDT) From: John Petherick Subject: Re: DG: Re: A Bridge too far / Operation Market Garden At 02:26 PM 10/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >>Forgive my ignorance when it comes to this topic, but what is MARKET GARDEN? >>I don't rcall ever having heard of this before. > >As Eckhard semi-explained, Market Garden was the code name of the British >(although I think Polish troops were also involved) airborne operation in >1944 to capture a series of bridges over the Rhine. The theory being that >if a bridgehead of intact crossings could be established behind German >lines, then a rapid punch through the German lines by Allied troops could >get enough ground troops through to relieve the airborne troops holding the >bridges. This was supposed to shorten the war in Europe by several months >and enable the "final push" into Germany itself. What actually transpired >was somewhat different. > > >But of even more DG relevance would be a lesser known operation: the Dieppe >raid of 1942, which was an equally suicidal attack by British Marines on >the Port of Dieppe... more info on which others will doubtless be able to >provide. > >Later > >Graeme > I believe that the Canadian Airborne Regiment was also involved in Operation Market Garden. Dieppe is well remembered in Canada because most of the troops involved were Canadian. It was a dismal failure in military terms (more Canadian soldiers became POW's from that operation than from all other operations, combined, in the European theatre). It was also a success in terms of intelligence, politics and tactics. One of the objectives was to learn about German radar, and the special forces and scientists tasked with reaching a radar station were successful. The failure of Dieppe provided valuable tactical lessons for Allied beach landings elsewhere in Europe including, finally, D-Day. And, most importantly, it satisfied clamourings from the home front and the allies (USA and Russia) for a Second Front. American troops (Rangers) were included in the invasion force for that reason. While it is a topic of considerable debate, it appears that Dieppe was meant to fail - simply to prove that the western Allies were not yet ready in terms of tactics and resources to launch an invasion. ObDG: If this was an attack against the Mythos - it was organized not by DG but by PISCES. For DG, an interesting unit to study is the First Special Service Force. Originally intended to be composed of personnel from all Allied countries, it was actually composed of Canadians and Americans. Extensively trained in mountain and arctic warfare, amphibious landings and parachuting, it eventually saw action in all theatres. In the Pacific, it lead the invasion and recapture of Kiska (one of the Aleutian islands occupied by Japan). In Italy, they were involved in some of the fighting leading up to Monte Cassino and Anzio. Finally, they participated in the invasion of Southern France. Following the dispersement of the Force, the Canadian members largely returned to the Airborne regiments. The Americans became the nucleus of the Special Forces (Green Berets). ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:35:59 EDT From: Appelion@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: A DG Calendar In a message dated 10/11/99 1:13:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Jacob.Busby@hantsnet.hants.gov.uk writes: << St. Jude, the patron saint of lost causes >> Dunno. I've been here only a couple of months. Sounds good. Agent Xavier ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:40:20 EDT From: LizardRoi@aol.com Subject: Re: DG: A DG Calendar In a message dated 99-10-11 04:13:24 EDT, you write: << Didn't we come up with St. Jude, the patron saint of lost causes, as the patron saint for DG? Shouldn't his day also be in this calendar? Otherwise this is a cool (or should that be kew-ell) idea. >> St. Jude is the patron saint of LEOs everywhere according to Sean "The Chicago Way" Connery in The Untouchables. Mark "The LA Way" McFadden Follower of Saint Alfonso of the Pancake Breakfast where I stole the margareen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:54:06 -0700 From: "Patrick Leonard" Subject: DG: RE: Re: RE: Operation Market Garden I would be somewhat curious about them. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org [mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of JT Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 11:34 AM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: Re: RE: Operation Market Garden - -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Leonard To: Delta Green List Date: 11 October 1999 16:41 Subject: DG: RE: Operation Market Garden >Also somewhat related to the topic: > >Close Combat III: The Russian Front. > >Even better then CC: ABTF. > >Patrick > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org >[mailto:owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org]On Behalf Of Mikko Kauppinen >Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 12:27 AM >To: Delta Green mailing list >Subject: DG: Operation Market Garden > > >Somewhat related to the topic: > >I highly recommend the computer game Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far On a related topic, is anyone interested in DG related scenarios for the above? I did a couple of Karotechia ones for CCIII... Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 04:33:36 +0200 From: Shoggoth Subject: Re: DG: Earthquakes and the Mythos On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, you wrote: > DELTA GREEN SECURE SERVER v24.6 * FILE VIEWER 3.2 * PGP DECODING ENABLED * > ALWAYS WATCH YOUR BACK > From: Shoggoth > > And if there is a country/people pair more opposite , are Spain/Spanish > and > > Japan/Japanese , I can swear it! > > But then, opposites attract, eh? I have several students who are also taking > flamenco classes... The worriying about that is that Japs outperforms native performers (sigh!) > > (What the > > hell dave japs racial perceptions with earthquakes? Lateral-N-Dimensional > > thinking maybe?) > > Are you talkin to me? ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? (Sorry, _Taxi Driver_ flashback, > there.) Anyway, maybe it was a typo, or a Freudian slip. Errr.. Sorry , it was a typo (or that evil shan in my head!!) I mean _What the hell HAVE japs racial perceptions with the earthquakes_ > But you have called > up that which you cannot put down! Right, Japanese racial perceptions of > earthquakes...um...hrm...can't really think of any. But, you can be sure a > people who have as much experience with earthquakes would surely have > contacts with the Cthonians, or some deity who can intervene with the > Cthonians, to try to keep the earthquakes away. Not necessarily a cult, but > rather sacrifices to propitiate the gods. Still, any contact with the Mythos > will have its corrosive effects... > > Dave Geee... Serendipility or something (sorry , i'm not native english ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:10:28 +0100 From: "JT" Subject: DG: Re: RE: Re: RE: Operation Market Garden - -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Leonard To: Delta Green List Date: 12 October 1999 00:55 Subject: DG: RE: Re: RE: Operation Market Garden >I would be somewhat curious about them. > Ironically, it was a CCIII scenario that gave me the idea for Da Totenreich, now on the DG website... I'll hunt them out and send them on... Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:18:41 -0700 (PDT) From: a.serna@arrakis.es (Assumpta Serna) Subject: DG: Sitges Film Festival Greetings list members from the 37th annual International Film Festival. Well, there's some interesting fare here, I must say. Sin Nom (the Nameless)- Adaptation of a Ramsey Campbell story. Apparently rather good. The Item - An almost very DGish movie about 4 friends who are being paid a lot of money by a mad scientist to look after a "monkey" which actually turns out to be some kind of empathic alien in a cryotank. Sort of Pulp Fiction meets RepoMan meets a Hong Kong action movie. There is a Brian Yuzna retrospective. He made all the Lovecraft movies. I'm sure you've seen them here. Anyway, he's got a deal to make 7 movies here in Catalunya, including Faust, Dagon (yes you heard it right) and Beyond Reanimator. I met with him the other day to play the lead in Faust. The basic tale of violent redemption, selling your soul to the devil and ultimately defeating the Black Goat of the Outer Woods with a thousand young with your wrist-blades. We chatted about Lovecraft and he was well aware of CoC. The idea of DG intrigued him I must say. Also here in competition is a Korean film called the Soul Guardians. Probably not much interest to DGers but Unknown Armies buffs would be interested to see how it deals with modern day magic. Dario Argento was here, being his cadaverous self and screening a bunch of his movies here. Well, that's about it. I'll keep you posted. regards scott cleverdon PS, Davide, did you get it yet? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 05:30:08 EDT From: MacMourna@aol.com Subject: DG: NASA Quite Curious About Firmage's Private Top-Level Meeting NASA Quite Curious About Firmage's Private Top-Level Meeting By Matt Beer San Francisco Examiner Scripps Howard News Service 10-11-99 SAN FRANCISCO - An upcoming private meeting between Silicon Valley high-tech executives, NASA scientists and a high-profile UFO enthusiast has sparked an investigation by a government agency. Special Agent Keith Tate, an investigator with the Long Beach, Calif., branch of NASA's Office of Inspector General, has been calling Silicon Valley sources, including The Examiner, seeking information about a planned Tuesday meeting between research scientists and Silicon Valley high-tech executives. At that meeting, first reported by The Examiner, attendees, including scientists from the NASA Ames Research Center in Mountain View, Calif., will discuss propulsion technologies. "We're trying to determine if any proprietary information will be talked about at that meeting," said Tate. "We're very concerned about this." Staging the meeting will be the International Space Sciences Organization. Its founder is Joe Firmage, a 28 year old, high-tech executive who made headlines late last year when he published a Web site and book in which he recounted his beliefs in space aliens. On the ISSO site, he claims to have been visited in his bedroom one night by such an alien. Firmage also has stated that some of the high technology of today was obtained from the legendary alien space craft crash at Roswell, N.M., in 1947. Firmage stepped down from his post as CEO of the giant Santa Clara, Calif.-based USWeb Internet consulting firm following his revelations, due to shareholder concerns about his extraterrestrial pursuits. ISSO spokesman Tony Young had no comment on the NASA probe. Over the last several years, NASA has been researching an array of exotic propulsion technologies through a small program dubbed Breakthrough Propulsion Physics. Some of these techniques thumb their noses at Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, which postulates that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light - 186,00 miles per second. These include using technologies familiar to science fiction fans: worm holes and warp drives. Firmage, according to his Web site, believes "there is stunningly good evidence that UFOs are real starships." He writes that "whatever did or did not happen at Roswell in 1947will ultimately prove to be a rounding error when the implications of this phenomenon become widely known." (Distributed by Scripps Howard News Service.) ------------------------------ End of deltagreen-digest V2 #97 *******************************