From: owner-deltagreen@nocturne.org on behalf of Gregory A. Muir [gregmuir@flinet.com] Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 12:07 AM To: Delta Green List Subject: Re: DG: Maths and the Mythos > > In the end I drew "DGML" in the applet. That looked interesting - the DG and > the ML parts (although very distorted) circled each other for a long time (I > honestly can't remember how long, 2, 3 minutes, perhaps?), then - then they > reformed into this to finally remain stable. I was barely able to take a > screenshot: > http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/lifesnap.gif > This is a joke, isn't it?? I don't know what happened and I really can't remember > what the shape of the "DGML" was exactly like. I couldn't reproduce it. Can > somebody more knowledgeable in Conway's game of life please explain? > Wow, this is fairly wiggable. I mean, this is the sort of thing I'd expect to see in a COC story, not posited as truth on the mailing list. If it's a fake it's a damn good one. :) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jay W. Dugger [duggerj@reed.edu] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 12:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: SONAR spoilers, was "Re: Fwd: Re: DG: Re: 4D" On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Jeff Dennis Campbell wrote: > I have been in the Hatfield Marine Science Center in Newport, > Oregon, where a listening station for the "declassified" hydrophone system > is. Amongst all of these labs with casually open doors are a row of locked > doors with keypads, and signs announcing the penalty for tresspassing. > [snippety-snip] Okay, here's my best guess about what you might find behind those locked doors. When I was in the US Navy, I spent a good deal of time with the sonar technicians. Sonar techs deal with more classified material than almost any other job in America's fleets. (Exceptions being cryptographic technicians, radiomen and electronic warfare specialists.) Even the computer displays showing sonar scans in (more-or-less) realtime were instantly and automatically classified SECRET. This is one reason why the sonar displays shown in movies such as "Hunt for Red October" and "Crimson Tide" are left unfocussed. The set designers aren't told what they really look like. The other reason is that they look like noise to the untrained eye. It's not too hard to figure out a power spectrum, but it isn't obvious either. By contrast, a PPI (radar sweep) shows range and bearing very intuitively. What lay behind those locked doors was nothing very exciting. Those rooms probably held just row after row of overpriced and overworked computers displaying highly classified information. Of course, you could make the argument that horror is all the more effective when it sheds the mask of banality. --------- Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel til_e@hotmail.com : duggerj@reed.edu --------- Sometimes the delete key is your best friend. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jay W. Dugger [duggerj@reed.edu] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 2:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: DG: Re: 4D On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Gregory A. Muir wrote: [snip] > Speaking of this, I saw on Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World a story > about a USN destroyer that got attacked by something. They didn't know > what it was but a rubberized coating over their sonar dome had some big > sucker-like tears in it, looked like it got hit by something with > tentacles. They never knew what it was but the crew sure had a few > sleepless nights after that encounter. [snip] That truly sounds false to me. Sonar arrays put out a great deal of power. (No, I don't know exactly how much. Check Jane's Fighting Ships if you really want to know.) In fact, US Navy procedures against hostile divers begin with "Turn on active sonar." I find it very hard to believe a giant squid, or any aquatic life for that matter, would stick around anywhere near an active array. Star-Spawn, Shoggoths, etc., might all behave more intelligently. I can neither confrim nor deny that I have aggressively convinced _my_ neighbors to turn down their stereos. The principle probably holds in the ocean too. --------- Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel til_e@hotmail.com : duggerj@reed.edu --------- Sometimes the delete key is your best friend. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 2:35 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: DG: Re: 4D >Exactly what are the effects of Submarine-class active sonar on divers (or >other entities) nearby? Burst eardrums and other symptoms of Too Much >Noise? Or worse? I'll make a few guesses at this one, but there's bound to be someone who knows the real deal lurking. Active Sonar (where the sub emits a sound pulse - not the same as passive sonar where the operator just listens for sounds produced by something else) will probably blow the eardrums out, but will almost certainly have other nasty effects as well - depending on the frequency used. Sound waves travel faster in water than in air (he said dredging his basic physics and opening himself to a myriad of smack downs) so I guess that the "ping" will clobber the top end of the cochlea. Implications of this being disorientation, possible unconciousness and general hearing loss. Could also affect the sinuses as well (not a good thing for a diver). What it won't do is trigger nitrogen narcosis (aka the bends) which is a function of the amount of nitrogen dissolved in the bloodstream (diver surfaces too fast, nitrogen comes out of solution into the gaseous form, which causes all sorts of airbubbles in the bloodstream, restricts bloodflow to vital organs [ie. the brain] and is generally bad). Mind you, if the diver gets disoriented enough then he could panic and try to surface too rapidly... which would lead to the bends (or worse - if he comes up much too fast, then it gets messy as the volume of air in his lungs expands as he approaches the surface: were he on the list, my friend Fat Phil the dive paramedic would doubtless regail you with the story of how a striken diver vomited his lungs over Phil's wetsuit one afternoon after freaking out underwater. Needless to say the diver didn't survive). Now somewhere out there, the real information must be available. Chances are the US Navy has something on the effects of Sonar on sea mammals which is available in the public domain (environmental impact reports etc.). Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of K. Suderman [suderman@ocean.ocean.fsu.edu] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 3:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: DG: Re: 4D At 02:30 PM 11/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >Exactly what are the effects of Submarine-class active sonar on divers (or >other entities) nearby? Burst eardrums and other symptoms of Too Much >Noise? Or worse? Good question. I wish I knew the answer (since I leave tomorrow to work as a diver on an underwater acoustics project...). Two weeks ago (as part of the same project) I talked to some guys using an "airgun" (their term- it used compressed air, 1000 psi, to generate an underwater boom at 500 Hz (I think)) to map the strucure of the seabed. They wanted all divers out of the water before they would even hook it up. They never told us what would happen, but we were happy to comply. An unverified factoid that may be of interest: The acoustics guys said that fish show up well on their sonar because of their air bladders. Squid don't have air bladders and therefore don't show up (as well?). Additional factiod: Deep-sea fish don't have air bladders. It's metabolicly expensive (i.e. takes a lot of energy) to produce/maintain gas under pressure. For buoyancy compensation, they use oils, which are lighter than seawater. Benthic (= bottom dwelling) fish are solidly built, much like shallow-water fish. Mid-water fish (the scary, mythos-esque ones like the anglerfish and the gulper, none of which are over a few cm long) are very fragile. They are built very lightly so they require less energy to maintain possition in the water column. Also, they use oil instead of air so they can travel vertically without exploding. Keith ps. I study crustaceans- any information I have about fish is suspect, but *I* believe it.... :) Keith Suderman suderman@ocean.fsu.edu Florida State University 850-980-3218 Department of Oceanography From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 4:08 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Palmasola / Possible DG Setting Good Evening. I just read an article about the Palmasola Penitentiary in Bolivia. This Prison is a rather unique institution: Palmasola is basically an independent town surrounded by a wall. The prisoners are left alone to organize their lives as they want to. The whole thing started as a well-meant experiment, but has now become a complete desaster: You only get a bed if you have money, you only get acceptable food if you have money. Therefore you are either lucky enough to get money from outside the prison that you can spend [ for example: from you embassy if you are a foreigner, or from your fellow druglords ] or you have to earn it. It is Darwinism at its worst: Survival of the fittest or Survival of the reckless. When people cause trouble, they get killed by their fellow inmates. Then the victim is dragged to the gates, the guard are informed and the poor fellow will be buried. No investigation, no trouble for the murderers. This terrible place might be a good setting for a DG scenario: The players need to contact somebody who is an inmate of that prison. Therefore they choose go in the prison undercover to recover the person they need. Then there might be some cult among some of the prisoners that is discovered by the PCs. But how to deal with such a cult, if you are just a regular inmate without any of the resources of a government agent? ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew D. Gable [agable@falcon.lhup.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 5:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Hold the Fava Beans Shane asked: >ObDG: Okay, if Consume Likeness requires you to eat the entire body, and >that memory spell requires you to eat the brain, what are some other >variations of cannibalistic sorcery? Mystically and such, the liver was the organ of life, I believe, probably due to its toxin-fighting properties and such (which presumably the ancients didn't know about). The water-horses of Scotland actually *didn't* eat the liver of victims, and then, of course, there's Prometheus with his liver getting eaten by that vulture. I'd imagine that consuming the liver could conceivably transfer the victim's CON or maybe even STR. Cannibals like The Famous Mr. Gein usually seem also to like devouring the heart. I can't think of what the heart might transfer, though -- maybe the soul itself, if consuming the body transforms you physically? Makes you wonder if old Saucy Jack ended up something more than human, since he possibly ate a liver, maybe a heart, and possibly even a goodly portion of a body. Andrew D. Gable agable@falcon.lhup.edu The CryptoWeb (back up!): http://come.to/the_cryptoweb/ Delta Green/Equinox: http://www.fortunecity.com/arkham/roswell/80/ "'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes." My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult, "Nervous Xians" > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steve Allison [sallison@netcomuk.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 4:50 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Computer to control emotions ...well at least if all goes according to plan for Professor Warwick: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_503000/503552.stm For those of you who don't want to read the article a brief synopsis is: Cybernetics professor plans to use a computer to record neural signals, and the to try and replay them in an attempt to induce the recorded emotions. Is it just me or is this not the sort of thing that we should be reading about in RPGs, not the news ! (in that they're practically sci-fi, not that it's neccesarily a 'bad' development, btw). Seems just the sort of thig MJ-12 would be interested in for mind control purposes. oh, and more Echelon info (found on Slashdot): http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/POLITICS/ECHELON/echelon.html Bye, Steve From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 2:14 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Dream Journal entry (was Re: DG: Reading in dreams.) In a message dated 11/4/99 7:14:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, graemep@immagene.mcg.edu writes: << Another funny thing is that REMS is associated with muscle atonia (think loss of muscle control)... so on waking from REMS, you may experience transient paralysis for a couple of minutes (this happened to me about a month ago - a very, very scary sensation when your eyes are open and you can hear, but not move, even to call for help). >> Okay, here's one for the Ice Cave. Years ago, when I first started devoting an undue amount of attention to things Lovecraftian, I had my first HPL/CoC inspired dream (that I can remember). The part that I remember began with a "crash landing," a piece of slang I picked up from articles about OOBEs and remote viewing and such. I've experienced the sensation many times throughout my life, I have no theories about the cause. I snap awake lying flat on my back, I can feel the pressure of my weight on the mattress. But my balance center tells me I am standing up, then adjusts to the real situation. It feels as if I am lying on a table that tilts from vertical to horizontal, pivoting at my feet. During this time I am unable to move, although the only move I make is an attempt to grab the mattress with my hands. I was just getting calm and remembering that I had experienced this many times before. I felt I was awake. Then the air near the ceiling above the door to my room 'de-rezzed' much like the Tron effect, but without the wireframe. Very derivative of TV SFX when I look back at it objectively. In any case, in the very dim room there was a horizontal tear in the air which opened on a deeper black. An infinite void of abyssal yada yada. I think I remember feeling split, being first person and feeling panicky (I still couldn't move and was now very aware of it) and being simultaneously objective and critical. The detached part was noting the cheap SFX and predictable storyline, even 'mentioning' the obvious Lovecraft influences, while my subjective self was countering with, "But, what if...?" I'm an adult. I'm agnostic and yada yada but I still face the open end of the pillowcases away from the door because Grandma said not doing so would invite trouble in. It's free and no more trouble than flipping a pillow. So I do it because I got imprinted in childhood and what does it hurt? And you never know, what if...? So the subjective me goes tharn and the critic starts demanding that I stop goofing around and just look at my hands. According to Don Juan in the Castaneda books, people seldom see their hands in dreams. If you look at your hands you can slip into a lucid dream that is under your control. I had done it a few times and it works for me. I try to look at my hands, and that's when my immobility really pumps up the panic. The critic went away and it was all me, paralyzed and trying to lift my hands or tilt my head. That's when the voice out of the tear in space said, "We know that trick." The voice had a digital quality to it, it sounded like a voice composed of rock rubbing against rock. Now I'm flopping like a hooked fish inside and not budging a bit on the bed. I try to yell, but all that comes out is this nasal moan. I'm yelling by forcing air, but without any cooperation from my throat or mouth. Suddenly light streams through the cracks around my door and I realize one of my housemates is knocking on the door and asking if I'm OK. I also realize that the light in the hallway has been on for a while, but I'm only seeing it now because this is the first time I've actually opened my eyes. And the tear in space is still there. I'm aware that I am moaning, but I'm not controlling it. The voice says, "No one will believe you." Then the tear seals up. *Then* I actually open my eyes. The housemate was still there and the hall light was still on, but now I realized that it was merely mundane light, not the dramatic carbon arc that had outlined it earlier. The critic would have noticed that. By then I had my voice back and was assuring my roomie that it was all just a bad dream. I'm fine. Really. Mark McFadden It was good to be back in B&W, with Toto and Auntie Em. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Austin S Chamberlain [achamber@crg.ee.uct.ac.za] Sent: Sunday, November 07, 1999 5:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Bear-baiting Update - The Cowboys are Here Following up on that: > > Davide wrote: > > > > The main problem will be finding roles for the two women in the team - I'm > > not allowing transgender in my games after a pair of highly negative > > experiences, so boys will be boys and girls girls. > > But I'll figure something out. > > > Interesting factoid - the Special Forces A-teams used to train and lead > groups of locals (Montagnards, Nungs and the like) on anti-Viet-Cong > missions. These Mike-forces tended to be very motley, with all sorts > of misfits and outcasts. Women were not common, but did apparently occur > in almost all of these teams. > To try and prevent infiltration by Viet Cong into the difficult terrain away from major cities, the Special Forces created A-Teams. These teams would set up bases in or near friendly villages, and recruit, train and equip locals into Mike Forces (Mike for Mobile, I think). Women in these camps tended to be of the "camp follower" variety, but everyone was expected to do their bit for the camp, especially when the Viet Cong attacked. Lovely description of one such group was "thieves, mercenaries, whores, gangsters and outcasts of all types". The A-Teams were not popular with conventional military command for their habit of "going native", wearing local jewellery and following local customs. The fact that they were very efficient was not enough to save them from official censure, and IIRC around 1970-72 the US personnel were removed and the Mike Forces handed over to ARVN control. They generally lost effectiveness after that, and were not really significant. Now that I think about this, this setting just begs for a DG or Cthulhu game. US personnel getting involved with local customs, finding out about the unpleasant neighbouring tribes, fighting off Viet Cong attacks, finding lost jungle temples. Wow. I'm sorry if the info sounds vague; I don't have most of my books to hand. If anyone's interested, I'll get some concrete times and places. Austin -- These hands!! I can't get them off my wrists!! Oh, God!! - Happy Noodle Boy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Williamson Mark [m.williamson@ace.ac.nz] Sent: Sunday, November 07, 1999 2:38 PM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: DG: Echelon unmasked >From the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/newsid_503000/503224.stm -Mark ======================================================= Attention: This e-mail is privileged and confidential. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this E-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender IMMEDIATELY. Do not copy this email, do not use this email for any purpose, and do not disclose the contents of this email to any other person. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Auckland College of Education. ======================================================== From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au] Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 9:00 AM To: The Delta Green List Subject: DG: "At Your Door" debacle- please help. Hi there: A couple of months ago there was some discussion about the Chaosium campaign adventure "At Your Door". As I noted at the time, I was about to start running an established group of players through that scenario. We got distracted (I dreamed up a group of Eihort cultists using trans-dimensional tunnels to smuggle drugs) but about a month ago we got started on AYD. The first couple of sessions were OK. Last night things went pear-shaped, however, and suggestions are needed after some monumental stuff ups. Be warned, this is loooooong. Spoiler Warning: "At Your Door" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Having gone through all that spoiler space, here we go: P-Cell, assisted by a DG friendly from the USAMRID and a a DG friendly doctor are in San Francisco investigating events outlined in "At Your Door". A few names and locations have been changed from those in the published scenario, mostly because a couple of my players also enjoy "Mythos New Aeon". Brief Character Sketches: Agent Field, FBI Forensic Pathologist, SAN 46, Cthulhu Mythos 11. Alcoholic and bacteriophobic, PTSD Agent Ben, Secret Service, SAN was 61 (now 41: spectacular; see below), has been resurrected once already. No specific mental disorders (just nervous). Agent Davis, BATF Special Agent. Has suffered 2 heart attacks & one stroke in the course of play. Cthulhu Mythos 10, SAN 55. Suffers from Persecution Complex and PTSD Capt Jeffrey Phillips, USAMRID: Nothing wrong with this fellow (new PC). These four intrepid investigators have been tasked to deal with the "creature" delivered into DG's hands by Full Wilderness (it's a baby Dark Young: if you don't know this stuff be warned that this description gives away some of the early plot- this is the last spoiler warning). As they drove the creature to their lab for research they got attacked, as described in the published scenario. Being DG agents they were able to deal with the situation, although agent Ben was killed in the firefight. Ben was later resurrected: he lost 1 SAN, Phillips and Davis lost 2 each (damn dice) and Field lost 6 (temp insanity: profound hatred and disgust for the resurrected Agent Ben). Amid sundry backbiting they continue the investigation, and cover their tracks from the police (who are naturally interested in the machinegun battle). Eventually they break into Tait's house, and collect almost everything inside (including all the porn tapes) for analysis. They also interview his brother and retrieve the journal. So far so good. Then Davis and Phillips went off on their own to "look at" Tait's country house (the one with all the animated carnivorous plants). Thankfully they did this at night, so they lived. Davis however lost buckets of SAN (13 points I think) when the animated corpse/scarecrow attacked him. It did not help that Phillips did not see this happen, and denied it occurred. The two of them ran away, almost killing each other, to contact the other agents. They met up, Davis was almost raving mad and so the others tried to calm him. He lost it, ran from them, then returned to the farm in daylight with a pickup truck full of petrol cans. The others were in close pursuit and called their cell leader for help. The SNAFU at the farm was not as bad as it might have been. Davis could not be made any worse in his delusions by seeing more animated plant things, and the others rolled well. Phillips and Ben were both injured, but will live. Copious amounts of petrol were thrown everywhere and all the "evil" creatures burned. The gell-creature was destroyed by a helicopter-equipped Alpha Squad who also provided the PCs with medivac. Phillips was sent to hospital (where he still is). There he has struck up a close relationship with his DG-provided doctor, who is closely based on Debra Constance (ref "Alien Intelligence"). Davis was sent to the funny farm (from whence he will likely return after about 4 months game time, ready to go irrevocably mad in the finale...) and was replaced by D-Cell's Agent Banham. The group was also joined by D-Cell agent Burnside. Bonham replaced Davis as a PC. He is ex-NSA, a computer cracker / surveillance expert. He is also, apparantly, a paranoid psychopath (see below). He is there to assist P-Cell. Burnside is a CIA Case Officer who has been tasked to determine if P-Cell are fit to continue (their SANs are getting very low indeed). He has Cthulhu Mythos 13, SAN 78, and a host of useful skills. A new player is running him. The PCs went back to SF and checked out Gall, the "mad scientist" who sold Tait the farm. They got a good look at him and decided he is too dangerous to live, but could do nothing at the time because they were seen entering his house. This is where the shit hit the fan. Bonham hit on a scheme to incriminate Gall for a series of child murders (these are a red herring I threw in for the hell of it). Accordingly he visited the scene of three child kidnappings and took pictures. At the first he was observed by the missing child's parents, while at the third he was seen by police detectives. He was not followed, but later on his van was spotted parked outside the investigator's hotel. The detectives staked it out, and interviewed the desk clerk. They had no real suspicions, but equally they had no other leads. The PCs spotted them from their window, but didn't think they might be cops. Bonham went down to move his van (I don't know why) and was intercepted in the carpark by the police. Burnside and Field evaded detection and ran away. Ben, meanwhile, was questioning the desk clerk: "What did those men want to know?" "Nuthin" (the police had detailed the kidnappings to help persuade the clerk to answer questions- he was terrified) "I don't believe you!" "I didn't say nothin mister!" making a break for it. Ben and the clerk got into a fight which culminated in Ben firing a warning shot. This diverted the attention of the police holding Bonham. Three of them ran towards the hotel, leaving the fourth to deal with him. Bonham turned on the detective and shot her in the ankle: her return fire missed him. He then shot her again (chest). One of the three cops turned to fire on him but also missed. The two police who went to investigate the shooting in the hotel were shot up by Ben. Both were wounded. The clerk was killed. Ben was badly wounded. Bonham retrieved an M16 from his van and killed the policeman shooting at him. He then sprayed the hotel lobby, finishing off Ben and both police in the process. Bonham set fire to the policecars with phosphor grenades, grabbed Ben's corpse and drove away to a green box previously established in a self-store garage. The run of phenomenally lucky dice rolls continued and he (they?) escaped. He packed Ben's body in party ice, rigged a booby trap and left. Cue scenes of incredible player/character infighting: 1/. Field went berserk when she heard the others plan to resurrect Ben again. 2/. Burnside went berserk at Bonham. 3/. Field went berserk at Phillips when she discovered who his girlfriend is (the two ladies go back a long way). Finding Phillips eating steak tartare didn't help. 4/. Field was nearly killed by Debra. 5/. Bonham attempted to "Summon Ghoul" inside the hospital mortury (he and Phillips were scouting locations for a repeat resurrection) and was nearly killed by Debra. Burnside went to the green box to collect some other equipment, and was lucky to spot the booby trap. Hence 6/. Burnside went berserk at Bonham again. Who needs to supply plot? This lot are their own x-file... The session ended with Phillips and Bonham attempting to resurrect Ben for the second time. Field made a last attempt to stop them, failed to persuade Bonham not to deliver the body to Phillips, and so she called the police. Hoopla! But once again Bonham was lucky and the cops missed him. The resurrection succeded, but Ben lost 20 SAN and now has the room next to Davis. Field has called Burnside and told him what she did. He in turn called Bonham, who wants to kill her. And that's where it stands right now. Ben is being replaced by a Delta-Force soldier (from the Alpha Squad mentioned above). Burnside is taking control as soon as he can arrange for Field to be captured and placed in the room on the other side of Davis'. I've no idea who/what is going to replace Field. The PCs are off (asap) to check out Jenny Armbruster in the hills. The potential is appalling. As for the Canadian section: getting this lot across the border boggles the mind. It's worth noting that except for the guy playing Bonham, none of the players roleplayed badly in this mess: I keep their SAN secret most of the time, then lie to them about their character's experiences when their insanities come into play. But Bonham shooting the cop came completely out of left field. Sorry if this rambled or was unclear. The session left me a little breathless. = = There are a couple of things I'd like help with: 1: Suggestions for the ongoing police investigation into the multiple hotel killing. They have physical evidence from the scene, blurry video footage from a jewelry store surveillance camera across the street (graphic scene of Bonham giving a copthe coup-de-grace with a pistol shot to the head), and a photocopy of Bonham's (fake) ID used to hire the van. In 24 hours they will find the burned out van. In about a week they will match Ben's blood from the first gunfight with his blood from the hotel. 2: A-cell's likely action now that the "investigation" has attracted so much attention (admittedly none of it seems to relate to DG). Would they pull out Bonham? They are certainly getting VERY negative reports from Burnside... Would they pull out completely (see q3, below) because of the risk of exposure? 3: I'm not in the US, so a query for those of you who are: how much attention would all this get on the news? I've assumed it would be bigger than Columbine, almost as big as Waco. Is this fair? Should the PCs be dogged by detectives, reporters and police? If yes, how long will it take their last set of cover identities to be blown (which will get back to Jatik and Full Wilderness, who know them by those names). Answers to the above, plus comments, would be appreciated. -- Rob Shankly ludo@bigpond.com.au From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [sivey@zealot.com] Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 11:24 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: "At Your Door" debacle- please help. Rob Shankly wrote: <<[Details of monumental clusterfuck redacted for the sake of brevity.] 1: Suggestions for the ongoing police investigation into the multiple hotel killing. They have physical evidence from the scene, blurry video footage from a jewelry store surveillance camera across the street (graphic scene of Bonham giving a copthe coup-de-grace with a pistol shot to the head), and a photocopy of Bonham's (fake) ID used to hire the van. In 24 hours they will find the burned out van. In about a week they will match Ben's blood from the first gunfight with his blood from the hotel.>> Did they leave fingerprints? You've already mentioned serological evidence (blood): the government won't have samples of Ben's blood on-hand to identify him outright, but you can bet that sample will be compared to any suspects until a match is found; and if a match is not found, that will remain a big question mark for investigators to resolve. Evidence technicians will go over the area with microscopes for hair samples. Don't forget footprints: slight irregularities in a shoeprint (from individual gait) can help identify a suspect from the same irregularity on other shoes. Bullets can be matched to firearms if the players failed to dispose of the guns they used: if they used official, line-of-duty weapons, then they are well and truly fucked unless somebody can interfere with the evidence records. With dead cops involved, the local and federal police will be ALL OVER this case, from SF police to state police to FBI to ATF--if the players left any traces, they will have detectives on their trail, and damn good ones. OTOH, DG has a vested interest in throwing the investigation off and the resources to do so, though it will probably cost them and be risky in itself. The group will need patsies who can't prove that they didn't do it. Even then, it's possible that legitimate investigators will smell something fishy and may pursue the case on their own, doing the sort of rogue work that player-characters love to do themselves, if you feel like throwing that particular wrench into the works. <<2: A-cell's likely action now that the "investigation" has attracted so much attention (admittedly none of it seems to relate to DG). Would they pull out Bonham? They are certainly getting VERY negative reports from Burnside... Would they pull out completely (see q3, below) because of the risk of exposure?>> Speaking as a Keeper, there's too much solid story potential here to have them drop out now; DG should pull out completely only if there is imminent risk of exposure. Certainly they should take steps: have the team lay low for a few days while Cell A gets to work throwing the cops onto a false trail. Bonham needs to be enlisted in the .44 retirement plan, ASAP. As a communications security expert and the loosest cannon imaginable, he could do more damage to Delta Green than the players might realize. And if the cops have a fake ID for him, then they have his actual photo, which can and will be compared to driver's license photos and government employee files nationwide until his actual identity is found. One bold option might be to use him as the patsy: have A-Cell set Bonham up as the child-killer and say he went berserk when he thought he would be discovered. Get a handwriting specialist to forge a crazy suicide note on Bonham's behalf, or just set Bonham up with newspaper clippings pertaining to the various child murders. If the other players were witnessed around him, concoct a story that they were investigating him the whole time. If it works, DG will have to secretly pull out all the stops to determine the REAL serial killer so he doesn't screw the whole scheme up by killing again--and they will have t obe the first on the scene to make sure it looks like any further killings are copycat murders. This will probably require using sorcery on a victim to aid the investigation: NANCY can do her brain-eating trick, or perhaps Resurrection can be applied. Unfortunately, this may only be feasible with a fresh corpse--which means they have to wait until the real killer strikes again. And Resurrection of a murdered little girl will lead to its own moral quandaries to dwarf what the players have dealt with until then. <<3: I'm not in the US, so a query for those of you who are: how much attention would all this get on the news? I've assumed it would be bigger than Columbine, almost as big as Waco. Is this fair? Should the PCs be dogged by detectives, reporters and police? If yes, how long will it take their last set of cover identities to be blown (which will get back to Jatik and Full Wilderness, who know them by those names).>> Three cops and one civilian killed in an inexplicable shootout: it will make national news, but only a 5-second headline outside California. It won't be as big as Colombine or Waco unless more details are revealed. It will get more publicity if it is revealed that an NSA employee was involved; but that's nothing compared to what'll come out if there are any signs whatsoever of a cover-up. Cell A will have to be very, very careful about the situation, and they will need to make sure all surviving and active agents understand exactly how dire the situation has become. Shane Ivey, Editor and Webmaster, Zealot.com Hecklers Online, Inc: www.hecklers.com - www.ant.com - www.zealot.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 12:14 PM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: Re: Ancient civilizations > Davide Mana: <<< As for ancient civilizations, the main problem is: where's the artifacts? > OK, OK, I know, there's a number of causes that can have completely > cancelled the traces of those ancient civilized men. > The problem is, when dealing with the past, if you do not leave lasting > traces, you never existed. [keep this in mind, you End Times campaigners] > It's true for about 75% (some say 90%) of the dinosaur genera, it is true > for an equal proportion of faunas before and after the Dinos. > Might as well be true for human civilizations. > Sad, but true. >>> > Davide is bang on the button. What goes for Geology goes for Archaeology too. Archaeological remains have a slight edge because the passage of time isn't as great as for geological remains, and in extreme circumstance traces will remain. But any longer and they turn into oil or coal [gross generalisation]. Bottom line is: bury anything, and most things will eventually disappear. And what remains isn't representative of what life was about. It's a sub-set of what was abandoned, dumped or lost. It's part of a story forever lost to us. For example: * A grave (either a poor Saxon warrior or King Tut) isn't about how the occupant lived their life, it's about how the occupant's society perceived their afterlife. * A site like Pompeii, or ?Thera (Mediterranean, Minoan), or an Aztec farmer's shack in Latin America isn't representative about everyday life - it's what's left after the inhabitants flee oncoming disaster taking what's valuable and what's left after burial by mud flow, ash, whatever. Then after all the burial, decay and preservation stuff, the archaeologist has to find the site which isn't as easy as it could be (and could be a whole new thread). -- Adam Crossingham E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the company.