From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Martin Ostergaard [MAOS@int.tele.dk]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 4:18 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: new campaigns
Spoilers to my campaign and DG in general ahead
!!!
!!!
Andrew Kenrick wrote:
>
> just a question for all of you running DG campaigns out there.
> what sort of pace is yours going at? i mean, at what stage did
> you spring MJ12 and the karotechia (or whoever) on your players?
Easy, first scenario, only 2 players, a U.S. Marshal and a DEA
Agent, both longtime friendlies uninitiated in the mysteries
of DG. They got _very_ small bits of the puzzle, but (without
knowing it) got to see MJ12 in action and meet Alzis in person.
I introduced Alzis as a sort of CSM/Deep-Throat like informer,
but hinted at more as I had the players actually do him a favour.
The scenario was intended as an initiation to the world of DG,
and I offered them membership of the conspiracy afterwards, but
not letting them know its a conspiracy, they think its a
government
agency.
They had worked on a case before together (non-DG related),
with a lowlife druggie who wanted to witness against a bigger
fish (U.S. Marshals handle witless relocation program'ees, DEA,
well guess). They are now called to NYC by a DG case officer
because this druggie had died in weird circumstances, that is
he looked like a piece of charcoal. (spoilers ahead) What really
happened was, that the druggie was an adept, he was assigned with
collecting newspapers from a dumpster in an alley of a quite bad
neighbourhood (his apartment is _full_ of old newspapers, the only
clue being an business card saying "Club Apocalypse"). The few
people who live in the building next to the alley only saw lots
of lights, and heard what sounded like a muffled helicopter. This
is MJ12 testing (along with the greys) a new weapon, right in NYC,
a weapon that will fry anything biological in seconds almost
sound-
lessly.
The players will almost certainly (mine did;) investigate
the Club Apocalypse lead, and after a few days of frustratingly
not being able to get anywhere, they will be approached by Alzis.
He will offer the players a deal, he will tell them where and
when a conversation will happen that will shead some light on the
matter, and in return he wants the conversation taped and a copy
of the tape (he _will_ get this, even if he will have to kill the
players). The conversation will be between a
senator/mayor/wellknown
political person (with some power) and MJ12 on a peer at the
harbour.
Two black limos will drive up right on time, MJ12 agents will file
out of one and enter the other.
The conversation will mention "the strangers" and "you dark suit
boys going out of line". After the players have taped this and
listened
in on the _very_ vague clues and the limos have left, the players
will notice a glowing cigarette (let them think X files, etc;)
coming around from the darkness behind a container, Alzis stepping
into the faint light and demand the tape. The next day the
political
person resign on the news. All this just to introduce a few
enemies ('allys'? Depending on how much they piss off Alzis).
> i started my campaign at the weekend and used MJ12 on them right
> from the start (not that they knew it!) but now i want to get
> away from them for a while and introduce a few other foes (and
> maybe friends). is session 2 too soon to run an encounter with
> the karotechia?
Depends on how much you intend to let them know, surely?
-Martin
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of McGloin, Michael [Michael.McGloin@Olsten.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 6:10 PM
To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com'
Subject: DG: Obviously an MJ12 plot
I like the list of agents on the web site and I was wondering if between the
people running games on the this list if we could start to build a more
comprehensive list of the delta green cells. I am curious what are the most
common character types and what agencies seem to produce the what number of
agents. I also thought it would be cool if we could start to assemble a
common list of friendlies (npcs) that could be used by other groups. I would
enjoy seeing pcs and npcs written up for Delta Green.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Pencis [cpencis@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:28 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: Self trepanation discussion
Those of you who've read through Countdown will know its relevance.
Interesting and quite gruesome in and of itself... Countdown relevant
spoilerage below.
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ee0r/trepan.html
C
o
u
n
t
d
o
w
n
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
I think the material here would be essential reading if one is to involve
the Army of the Third Eye anywhere. However, there's parts of it which
made me a bit squeamish (the discussion of the self application of a hand
held/hand cranked trepanning saw). This guy _must_ be the basis for
AotTE...
__________________________________________________
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From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Pencis [cpencis@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:34 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: another link for previous message
I guess I jumped the gun before completing my research....
http://www.trepan.com
... um .... these guys are nuts
Chris
...who needs another scotch a lot more than a hole in the head....
__________________________________________________
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Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jpetheri@cyberbeach.net
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 11:47 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: Ciudad Juarez Murders
There has been considerable attention in the media concerning serial, mass and multiple murders in Ciudad Juarez. Recent reports concern U.S. federal enforcement agencies involvement in the investigation of possible mass graves thought to contain the bodies of people murdered by a drug cartel. One news article identifies FBI informants as being among the deceased.
Some descriptions of the rape and murders of young women working in the maquiladora factories suggest a ritualistic component. One suggestion is that an Egyptian pharmacist began the killings and has since continued to orchestrate them from his jail cell.
Since more than 600 women are believed to have been killed in a similar fashion, and frequently with similar mutilations, it does suggest the possibility of an conspiracy.
Obviously, this should be of concern to Cell A.
Some briefing sites on the WWW -
http://www.aztlan.net/ParaSagrario/
http://gomexico.about.com/travel/gomexico/library/weekly/aa991129a.htm?iam=mt
And the Toronto Globe and Mail had a good article yesterday, but their website is too poorly organized to isolate a specific story. Go to their website, http://www.globeandmail.com and search in the Review section.
========================================
John Petherick, CIH
e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net
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From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Tim Craft [deadtim@thefaxcompany.com]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:23 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: CoC mechanics question
I am new to both CoC and DG, and I have a rather simplistic question.
When/how do you use Dodge?
The rules in CoC 5.5 talk about it vaguely, or else I'm not looking in the
right place. Can anyone explain this skill, and perhaps give an example? =)
DeadTim
"The only good Tim, is a DeadTim."
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Addis [addisj@xorbit.com]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 2:06 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: CoC mechanics question
Odd you should ask about dodge. I was planning on posting my new house
rule for dodge later today to ask for comments.
I really hate the, as Shane put it, "Matrix style bullet-jumping" sort of
dodge for CoC. It totally doesn't fit with the tone of the game. On the
other hand, I don't want to totally do away with dodge.
Here's what I'm contemplating:
1) Players must tell me at the start of the round what they're planning on
doing. If you expect to get a "dodge" roll you'd better be taking some
evasive action. Ex: "I'm going to shoot at grunt #2 and roll under the
table."
2) Rather than reduce the chance of being hit (if you're hit you're hit) I
reduce the amount of damage to model the effects of momvement, cover,
etc.
Against a succesful hit:
a) A successful dodge will reduce the amount of damage by 1/2.
b) A critical success will negate all damage.
Against a critical hit:
a) A succesful dodge will reduce the damage from 2x back to 1x.
b) A critical success will reduce the damage to 1/2 normal.
3) I'm considering some sort of skill penalty for using (or bonus for not
using?) your dodge in any given round.
Comments? Questions? I haven't actually played it yet and I'm curious what
everybody thinks.
--john
On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Tim Craft wrote:
> I am new to both CoC and DG, and I have a rather simplistic question.
>
> When/how do you use Dodge?
>
> The rules in CoC 5.5 talk about it vaguely, or else I'm not looking in the
> right place. Can anyone explain this skill, and perhaps give an example? =)
>
>
> DeadTim
> "The only good Tim, is a DeadTim."
>
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Adam Marler [adam_marler@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 12:27 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: Real life Charnel Dreams?
Thers a band called Neurosis out there.... bizzare stuff. Heres a blurb
from Alternative Press:
"For (over) a dozen years, the soundtrack to the Apocalypse has been under
construction in San Francisco's Bay Area. ...since their formation in the
mid-'80's, NEUROSIS has been creating music that sounds like the End Days.
And perhaps ... the band may actually help bring them about."
-Alternative Press
Ahem. Check out their website www.neurosis.com. Specifically the bio page
and the lyrics. http://www.neurosis.com/biography/ and
http://www.neurosis.com/discography/ respectively. Not that this is a plug
for the band, just any band that has something about brining about the end
times in its mission statement should be investigated.
-Adam
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 1:47 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Ciudad Juarez Murders
Mythos activity in Mexico and Central America?
C'mon, guys, that's going a little overboard:)
I mean, everyone down there's a good Catholic:) :) :)
Seriously, what's the readout on a book concerning same? I got some
heads-up on a supplement having to do with Mythos influence in
Mesoamrican societies, or something like that. I dropped the message (of
course) after only having read it once. Now I can't even remember if this
was going to be from Los Paganos or Chaosium.
I have a few starts that I can use on my own, but not for most of
present day Mexico. I have to go on two books from Dennis Tedlock, both
concerning the Maya peoples. Though one of them, BREATH ON THE MIRROR, is
about the current day, but again, only concerns the Maya of far southern
Mexico, Near Guatemala.
I don't want to leave out the legacy of the Mexica folks (and
those they assimilated). There's crossover between Mayan and other
C.American religions, but I don't know them very well. And my ideas about
Mythos "pushes" in the same, well, they need some work. Does anyone know
about this supposedly comprehensive supplement? Am I merely losing my
mind? The POPOL VUH is just, wow, man, it always gets to me. And I'm
reading the English-major-friendly translation Tedlock made.
Mr. Harms, if you are out there, a couple questions. First, and
most irritating; has Tedlock's work been, say, refuted or knocked out by
considerably different, more recent translations? Are there other
sources that I should go to? Also, is Barbara Tedlock's TIME AND THE
HIGHLAND MAYA as good as Mr. Tedlock's stuff? The Phys. Anthro guys I
know don't have much interaction with either prof., I guess. I was hoping
that you might know better. But then again, maybe not.
My mother-fathers went to Xibalba,
And all I got was this lousy 4ot4ouach.
xJAYx
___________________________________________________________________
Why pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW!
Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 1:05 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Ciudad Juarez Murders
>Seriously, what's the readout on a book concerning same? I got some
>heads-up on a supplement having to do with Mythos influence in
>Mesoamrican societies, or something like that. I dropped the message (of
>course) after only having read it once. Now I can't even remember if this
>was going to be from Los Paganos or Chaosium.
Wasn't there an essay or something on the Cthulhu Mythos in Mesoamerica in
the (really quite ancient... I'm guessing '83 or '84) Cthulhu Companion?
I'm not being very helpful I'm afraid, but I have to go and oil my Zimmer
frame.
Later
Graeme
Oh. Just remembered. Not sure if I've bought it up before, but there have
been a whole bunch of rape/murders of migrant workers in the Juarez area
over the last few years. Mostly young female factory workers crossing the
desert late at night on the way back from US owned factories. There was
something on this on ABC's 20/20 programme a few months back. The startling
thing which struck me at the time was that the owner of one of the
factories that they interviewed definitely had the deep one trait.
http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/mexico991011.html
...has a little more in the way of detail, but IIRC there was a lot more to
it that this article suggests.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bruce Ballon [Bruce_Ballon@camh.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 2:58 PM
To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com'
Subject: RE: DG: Ciudad Juarez Murders
I think it was in Fragments of Fear, the second companion book after the
main rules came out. It has that adventure into the valley of the 4 shrines
etc.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: graemep@immagene.mcg.edu [mailto:graemep@immagene.mcg.edu]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 2:05 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Ciudad Juarez Murders
>Seriously, what's the readout on a book concerning same? I got some
>heads-up on a supplement having to do with Mythos influence in
>Mesoamrican societies, or something like that. I dropped the message (of
>course) after only having read it once. Now I can't even remember if this
>was going to be from Los Paganos or Chaosium.
Wasn't there an essay or something on the Cthulhu Mythos in Mesoamerica in
the (really quite ancient... I'm guessing '83 or '84) Cthulhu Companion?
I'm not being very helpful I'm afraid, but I have to go and oil my Zimmer
frame.
Later
Graeme
Oh. Just remembered. Not sure if I've bought it up before, but there have
been a whole bunch of rape/murders of migrant workers in the Juarez area
over the last few years. Mostly young female factory workers crossing the
desert late at night on the way back from US owned factories. There was
something on this on ABC's 20/20 programme a few months back. The startling
thing which struck me at the time was that the owner of one of the
factories that they interviewed definitely had the deep one trait.
http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/mexico991011.html
...has a little more in the way of detail, but IIRC there was a lot more to
it that this article suggests.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Rob Shankly [ludo@bigpond.com.au]
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 2:21 AM
To: The Delta Green List
Subject: DG: Character Bios
Konrad Talmont-Kaminski, one of my DG players, has provided the
following biographies of his past and present PCs:
http://www.geocities.com/ktalmont/Karlbio.htm
and
http://www.geocities.com/ktalmont/burnside.htm
Please feel free to borrow Muller and Burnside as required. Note that in
the setting I use, Muller is diagnosed as criminally insane and is
currently incarcerated in a high security institution. The character
lost INXS 20 SAN in a single day (he had a very close encounter with
Eihort, with all that entails) then proceeded to shoot a fellow PC to
death on syndicated TV. The other PCs had already spent a great deal of
effort trying to get him institutionalised, so the damage to DG has been
quite minimal. As the effects of his encounter with Eihort develop,
however, this situation will change: feel free to use this idea in any
way you want...
--
Rob Shankly
ludo@bigpond.com.au
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of moorebros@earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 6:09 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: Looking for a Cell
I am fairly new to Los Angeles. Can someone point me in the
direction of a Delta Green game in the area? I live in Hollywood but
wouldn't mind riding a distance for a good game. Thanks...
Stay out of Trouble
Roger
moorebros@earthlink.net
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 4:04 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Self trepanation discussion
On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Chris Pencis wrote:
> Those of you who've read through Countdown will know its relevance.
> Interesting and quite gruesome in and of itself... Countdown relevant
> spoilerage below.
>
> http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ee0r/trepan.html
My man, you have *got* to see this page, just for the title graphic alone.
http://www.trepanation.com/
The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum
"Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead
http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jon Capps [narlymon@ioa.com]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 8:37 AM
To: DeltaGreen
Subject: DG: thoughts on Hastur
Ok, I haven't been paying much attention to the list for the last couple
months or so, so this may have been covered, but I have been thinking
through the whole Hastur mythos thing ever since I picked up Countdown
(about a month ago), so here're some ideas:
<.....Don't know if these really qualify as spoilers or not.......>
<.....Don't know if these really qualify as spoilers or not.......>
<.....Don't know if these really qualify as spoilers or not.......>
<.....Don't know if these really qualify as spoilers or not.......>
In Carcosa, things only keep their form while they are under direct
observation. While you look at something, it remains stable, but if you
glance away and then look back, it has changed. And the amount of change is
generally related to the amount of time that has passed since you last saw
it.
According to quantum physics, things only exist as a realm of possibilities
("possibility matrix", if I remember) until they have been observed. The
act of observation collapses the matrix, and all possibilities go away
except for one, which becomes "reality." This is an oversimplified
description, but it presents the general idea.
>From what I read of Carcosa, the laws of quantum physics have changed there
so that once an object is no longer observed, it returns to its possibility
matrix state. Then, once it is observed again, the matrix collapses again,
this time to some other possibility.
>From this, it seems that Hastur should have some effect over theoretical
physicists as well as artsy types.
Anybody have any other ideas along these lines?
Narlymon
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew Kenrick [andrew.kenrick7@virgin.net]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 2:20 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: [DG: Arkham and stuff]
> Depends. I tend to haul them in when I need them; Brichester and
Severnford
mmm severn valley. and to think, i've lived there for almost 10 years and
never noticed the slightest mythos activity. except opnce when i was in the
forest of dean (goatswood?) and passed a group of men in robes carrying
torches and looking rather shifty. now i think about it, that does seem a
bit suspicious...
ahem, slightly off topic there. but when i run pisces in my campaign, i'm
shifting all the names back to real world places. gloucester, forest of
dean, dowty aerospace and all. my players will never see that coming!
Andrew
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joseph Camp [alphonse@delta-green.com]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 2:45 PM
To: dgrpg
Subject: Re: DG: RE: tomes
>I was wondering what DG policy is
>regarding the acquisition of other mythos tomes. If a team came across a
>copy of a known mythos tome would they be ordered to relinquish it to A Cell
>or might they be allowed to keep it for study.
Occult works, religious items, and suspected paranormal artifacts should
all go promptly to Cell A unless they are believed to have some immediate
bearing on the op, whether it be as forensic evidence for a possible
prosecution or as a lead to the solution of some problem or as a tool
against a pending situation.
Generally speaking, such material is stored away safely. We put few
resources towards their study, however, as such study invariably leads to
corruption of one form or another (cf. Dan Fries or Agent Nancy). Still,
should the situation warrant it we would certainly attempt to research
the item or items in question, to establish their history if not their
content.
be seeing you,
Alphonse
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Svend Andersen [Svend.Andersen@MCS.VUW.AC.NZ]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 7:54 PM
To: Delta Green Secure Server
Subject: DG: Not really 'Fractal Gods'...
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/wli/images/orabanms.gif
Svend Andersen BSc(Hons), BA(Hons), DipCompSci Programmer
School of Mathematical and Computing Sciences Cotton 328 (x8395)
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Colin Creitz [cocst6+@pitt.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 10:18 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: CoC Dodge mechanics question
On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, The Man in Black wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Colin Creitz wrote:
>
> > (1) "Matrix style bullet-jumping" has its place - if you're playing
> > Cthulhupunk! I refer here not to the pure crap GURPS supplement
>
> I take exception. GURPS CthulhuPunk was meant for cyberpunk players not
> familiar with the Mythos. You needed GURPS CyberWorld and CyberPunk to mix
> it up with NERRC. Mythos keepers just needed it for the GURPS stats.
>
> As GURPS products go, it wasn't that great. I consider the non-background
> stuff a lot better anyway; Psionics, Magic, Supers, High-Tech, Ultra-Tech,
> Other-Tech, etc.
No disagreement that it [Cthulhupunk] was an awful product, but it
inspired me to actually take the Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0 material and adapt it
to CoC. It was indeed impossible to run GURPS Cthulhupunk without
Cyberworld and Cyberpunk, which I found unacceptable.
The only thing I liked about it was the premise, so I felt free to dump
everything but the name in putting together my setting. Mythos horror,
especially as represented by born-again cultists divorced from their
humanity, plays well against a background of humans struggling with
questions of belief and identity.
Think of it this way: Cultist X chose to sacrifice his humanity for power
- the spells of the Outer Gods. Cyberguy Y needs to decide, when he sees
Cultist X, whether what happens to him (scaring off children, ranting
incoherently under the influence of nanodrugs, waking up restrained &
under observation in a psych ward with blood and skin under his nails,
other soul-sapping experiences) is like what is happening to his cultist
nemesis, and whether it's worth it, and even whether or not the cultist is
really any worse than he is.
Your mileage may vary. I liked that setting a lot, and my players managed
to hang themselves better and in more personally satisfying ways than I
could have managed. It is the only time a player of mine has decided to
go over to the 'Dark Side,' and it was a great ride. I think six PCs
(well, five PCs and one new-minted cultist-of-the-Prolonged-of-Life
sorceror) had maybe fifty SAN among them, and every lost drop was a
consequence of a decision that a player made, rather than 'You open the
bathroom door and see Great Cthulhu on the can. Roll dem bones.'
> > While I'm on my stump: Have you considered just letting go? Dice suck.
> > Rolling them typically just interrupts the narrative flow.
>
> Wrong. Dice are an excellent instrument of storytelling. Rolling Dice
> increases tension in dramatic moments.
'Wrong'? Naah. Dice can indeed increase tension in dramatic moments,
which is why I still like to roll things like damage and Sanity. But
honestly, how does it increase dramatic tension to make everyone roll Sopt
Hidden in every room they enter? If an investigator has a Handgun skill
of on the order of 100%, why make him roll to hit mook cultists? That's
just boring.
Ever play Puppetland? Whispering Vault? They don't have dice for combat,
and I have to turn people away when I run Puppetland.
A note on one of your GMing tips, to wit, '7 - Just have Fun!' That's why
I choose to roll or not to roll dice. I roll when it makes the players
hold their collective breath. They roll when they they think it will help
get me on the edge of my own seat. Together, we keep the tension high.
It just deflates the game to have to say 'Roll your Fast Talk.' (even
before I kicked the dice habit, I abolished Fast Talk, Bargain, Persuade,
Credit Rating, and for different reasons Martial Arts)
Dramatic dicelessness probably doesn't work with AD&D hackenslashers, but
even they can be rehabilitated. I see proof every week at the table.
Hell, I was one of those once, until live-action (Paranoia and (even
better!) NERO) cured me. I guess the converts tend to join the choir;
now I minimize mechanics more than anyone I know, and breed diceless memes
on the side.
[...]
> > sheets, think about how hard the task is, and then say something
> > like, "I pull out the picks and tension wrench and feel out the lock,
>
> Here is when the Dice need to be rolled.
>
> > but it's a new lock with at least five pins. Frustrated, I pull out the
> > drill and punch out the cylinder..." - and that just makes my day.
>
> This is too late unless you're a locksmith or trying that nice safe
> diceless cowardice.
It tells the story. It is not too late, and it seems reasonable to me
that if (reasonably quiet and nondestructive) lockpicking doesn't carry
the day, a determined break-in artist goes for plan B, instead of just
giving up.
But 'Nice safe diceless cowardice'? This sums up everything that is wrong
with this reply - the character doesn't roll dice, or know that s/he will
automatically succeed or fail. Skill numbers and bonusses mean nothing to
characters. The investigator is taking a chance by trying to pick the
lock, and the player is moving the story along by justifying the
character's reservation or cockiness, as appropriate.
> I think Combat requires dice in a way that no other game mechanic does.
> This is because I feel that the Fog of War where neither the GM or Players
> have a total sense of control is the *only* way to go. Sometimes you have
> to roll with the punches and improvise.
Combat is the one region in which I do the most rolling - often the only
region. Of course, sane players playing sane characters try to avoid
combat, since it has the upsetting consequence of getting people killed.
A great way to make diceless near-combat more interesting is to do it in
real time. [breathlessly] "You look down the hallway and catch a flash
of now-famliar black pleather shoe running behind the far wall!"
[player 1]Back to the wall! [motions to other players as if to get them
against a wall] I draw.
[p2-5]I scramble... I hit the wall... I cover the hall behind us!
[gm] [... indicating silence in the hall - a standoff ...]
[p2] [whispering]I'll get their heads down. Janice, Tyler, you run across
on my signal! I poke my gun around the corner and fire toward the ceiling
somewhere in the hall. Go! Go!
[p4] I dive across the hall and breakfall on the other side. [marks sheet
preparing to cast Voorish Sign to locate mysterious MIB-type agent's
mostly invisible 'partner']
[p5] I take a step out of cover and a sprinting step, skidding to a halt
on the other side!
We ran this scene (not quite verbatim, but...) in about 15 seconds. Dice
would have helped how? In fact, that whole scenario ran very well with
the only dice rolls being for SAN loss.
Actually, I'm curious why no one has responded to my attempt at diceless
mechanics, for when they're felt necessary. I figured the mere assertion
that it is possible and even desirable to run the game without dice would
be relatively uncontroversial! Too much White Wolf, I guess.
It most be the penalty I pay for being a promiscuous GM. :)
------------------------
Colin Creitz [cocst6@pitt.edu]
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of McGloin, Michael [Michael.McGloin@Olsten.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 10:55 AM
To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com'
Subject: RE: DG: Legal issues (knife example)
When we were kids in Brooklyn the cops would hold the blade across their
palm, if if extented beyond their palm they would either snap on the curb or
keep it. I always wondered what the cops did with all the stuff the
confiscated from us.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Ewing [SMTP:ewing@postbox.csi.cuny.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 9:38 AM
> To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
> Subject: Re: DG: Legal issues (knife example)
>
> At 06:14 AM 12/14/99 -0800, you wrote:
> >I carry a 2" blade clipped to my pocket everywhere, except maybe a night
> >out to a bar or to the airport - no big deal.
>
> The last time I went through the metal detectors in the airport, the
> security guy opened my Buck, held it up to his thumb to measure it, and
> nodded approval. Presumably they teach them this in rent-a-cop school.
>
> >Generally, knives here in
> >Texas are seen as occasionally necessary and commonly carried. However,
> >carrying a combat knife (k-bar?) in public would get you some strange
> >looks.
>
> In _Dog Soldiers_ the crooked DEA guy kicks his
> drug-addict/stoolie/sidekick/catamite's leg and says "What have you got
> there?" DASSC replies "A bayonet taped to my calf." DEA agent: "You are
> not a self-respecting individual."
>
> >Not that they're seen as bizarre or unusual (geez, I mean the
> >namesake of the huge blade, David Bowie (not the singer - wise guy), died
> >_somewhere_ around here).
>
> That would be *Jim* Bowie, I believe.
>
>
> >http://www.spyderco.com/displaycategory.cfm?Categoryid=2
>
> I can see we're on the same page.
>
> Jeff, no-longer-Young American.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joseph Camp [alphonse@delta-green.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 5:50 PM
To: dgrpg
Subject: Re: DG: RE: Re: From Hell (Re: Jack the Ripper) ]
>No Jack the Ripper discussion should rear its head on this list without
>mentioning Alan Moore's painstakingly researched 'From Hell'. Ripper murders
>as Masonic conspiracy, with all the usual suspects (Gull, Eddie etc.) and
>cameos by the Golden Dawn.
This has finally been published as a collected paperback edition, which
arrived in stores just this month. A deluxe hardcover edition selling for
$100 arrives in January.
be seeing you,
Alphonse
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Bruce Ballon [Bruce_Ballon@camh.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 10:46 AM
To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com'
Subject: DG: Internet Mythos:was tomes(minor spoilers)
Hi all,
minor spoilers
Isn't there a story on the DG pages somewhere where some avatar of Y'golonac
e-mailed/chain-lettered tons of people with passages from the Revelations of
Glaaki?
In terms of other mythos baddies,NWI has numerous mythos texts on their
database system. In At Your Door, one can print out (sections?) of De
Vermis Mysteriis for instance.
The Trail of the Loathsome Slime also has similar themes in the beginning
section.
Minor plug, do not kill me, but I do have a certain villain starting a
webpage with mythos info, with dire consequences e.g. developing 'internet
addiction' for absorbing mythos knowledge in Unseen Masters.
I'm sure some of you also must of thought of certain mythos beings that
could inhabit cyberspace. Fractal Gods, anyone? I wonder if a mythos baddy
has developed a mind transfer spell for a computer interface? Adapting
Zelazny's 24 Views of Mt Fuji, for instance.
Cthulhupunk has a section on whacked out equipment, including a VR interface
'The R'lyeh Interface' that can lead to other dimensions.
Anyone else have internet mythos stuff to share?
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Ivey [mailto:sivey@zealot.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 11:32 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: RE: DG: SV: RE: tomes
Martin Ostergaard wrote:
"And you have to think about the consequences.. every person with occult
interests and an internet connection would be a possible insane sorcerer..
Is this the end, gentlemen?"
At least, a step in the right direction. Lovecraft wrote something to that
effect, in the person of one of his protagonists.
"The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us
little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open
up such terrifying vistas of reality . . . that we shall either go mad from
the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a
new dark age."
Shane Ivey
www.zealot.com - www.gamejudge.com - www.delta-green.com
HECKLERS ONLINE IS HIRING: Programmers (HTML, AOL, Java, C++, Shockwave,
PERL, PHP), Writers (Comedy, Game Reviews), Graphic Artists,
Webcasters/Audio Producers, & Ad Sales Reps - email me!
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jeff Dennis Campbell [cthulhu@leland.Stanford.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 11:16 AM
To: Delta Green Mailing List
Subject: DG: Fool Moon
Maybe this is just a netrumor, but it might be a good night to go find
that mysterious ritual in the woods.
JDC.
****************************************************
Something to look forward to on December 22, 1999.
This year will be the first full moon to occur on the winter
solstice, Dec. 22nd, commonly called the first day of winter. Since a
full moon on the winter solstice occurs in conjunction with a
lunar perigee (point in the moon's orbit that is closest to
Earth), the moon will appear about 14% larger than it does at apogee
(the point in it's elliptical orbit that is farthest from the
Earth). Since the Earth is also several million miles closer to the sun at
this time of the year than in the summer, sunlight striking the
moon is about 7% stronger making it brighter. Also, this will be
the closest perigee of the Moon of the year since the moon's
orbit is constantly deforming. If the weather is clear and there is
a snow cover where you live, it is believed that even car
headlights will be superfluous.
On December 21st. 1866 the Lakota Sioux took advantage of
this combination of occurrences and staged a devastating
retaliatory ambush on soldiers in the Wyoming Territory.
In laymen's terms it will be a super bright full moon, much
more than the usual AND it hasn't happened this way for 133
years!
Our ancestors 133 years ago saw this. Our descendants 100
or so years from now will see this again. I hope someone else
might find this interesting!
Remember this will happen December 22, 1999.....
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 5:00 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: [SPOILERS] CyberPunk Sequel to Convergence
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Shane Ivey wrote:
> Incidentally, the scenario "Convergence" was originally published as the
> first half of a loosely two-part CoC/Cyberpunk crossover adventure. I never
> managed to get my hands on the other half, set in the Cyberpunk future and
> printed in an issue of INTERFACE magazine. Has anyone read the follow-up
> scenario?
I have that issue safely stored at Steven Lo's house, where it resides in
an Raider's of the Lost Ark, X-Files, Warehouse 23 sort of pile of white
cardboard comix boxes that fill two rooms, a closet, and some plastic tubs
under his house.
It had a lot of really kewl but short ideas in the form of extended
ShotGun Scenarios or Adventure Seeds. The Convergence sequel was basically
about protomatter cyberware built at an Antarctic Arcology HQ for
Revolution Genetics.
The evil korp used protomatter to control folks in the manner of Hope's
Kiss from The New Age scenario. Every so often, the gook would get too big
and burst forth in all it's black, bubbly, iridescent glory. One such
chance occurance slimes the (un)fortunate PC's as they are getting
aquainted at a local tavern^H^H^H^H^H^H sleazy bar.
The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins
Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum
"Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead
http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER]
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jay Dugger [duggerj@reed.edu]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 11:04 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: [SPOILERS] CyberPunk Sequel to Convergence
On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, The Man in Black wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Shane Ivey wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, the scenario "Convergence" was originally published as the
> > first half of a loosely two-part CoC/Cyberpunk crossover adventure. I never
> > managed to get my hands on the other half, set in the Cyberpunk future and
> > printed in an issue of INTERFACE magazine. Has anyone read the follow-up
> > scenario?
>
[snip]
In the same issue of INTERFACE there exists a scenario set in an
isolated agricultural arcology. PCs go there for various reasons (hiding
out, chasing smugglers, old friend in trouble, etc.) and find some of the
migrant workers are...
...wait for it...
Tcho-Tchos (like you didn't see that coming). A cult of Y'Golonac among
that group fissioned, and their opposition takes an awful toll on the
general population. There are some very nice bits of stage business,
including cybernetic versions of the Hands That Feed, a child drawing on
walls with severed fingers instead of crayons, and a Mr. Squick TV Show.
No, really.
---------
Jay Dugger : Til Eulenspiegel
til_e@hotmail.com : duggerj@reed.edu
---------
Sometimes the delete key is your best friend.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@iol.it]
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 8:30 AM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: Nerva' hooey - part one
Greetings.
Nerva wrote
>I wouldn't mind more details, actually, on all counts above - tectonics and
>geology and ad nauseum.... please?
It being a well known fact I just can't say no to fascinating women,
expecially when they ask me to ramble on about geology (not that it happens
often, you see), I spent a few hours collecting data.
As it usually happens, my science-fiction reader background caused me not
so much to list why the Nibiru Hypothesis is junk, but on how this could be
used in a game or a story.
And here it comes. Be warned.... this will be really rambling.
I noted that a planet formed by tearing off a chunk of another world would
not turn out like our own.
The reason for this is to be found in the work of a nonconventional
Norwegian (no jokes, thanks) geochemist called V.M. Goldschmidt. Faced with
the problem of determining what rules (if any)=) control the distribution
of elements in a rock body, the guy analyzed all the available meteorites,
rock samples from all over the world, and even native iron ores.
He found out that elements tend to fall into four categories as to their
distribution.
Some will form ties with iron preferentially, are normally found in native
iron and are therefore likely to be concentrated in the Earth's iron core
(he caled these 'siderophile elements'); 'calcophile elements' were called
those that Goldschmidt found preferentially in sulfide ores; elements
forming preferentially silicates (that are therefore enriched in the
earth's crust) he dubbed 'litophile'; finally, and for good measure, he
noted down 'atmophile elements' that do occur preferentially in planetary
atmospheres.
So, any earth-like planet (like Tiamat should be) would show a
non-omogeneous distribution of elements throughout its structure.
Siderophiles in the core (with minimal amounts in the crust - like gold and
platinum), litophiles in the crust, etc.
If you tear a chunk off it, you do not get an even sample of the planet. In
particular, the chunk will be most likely poor in iron and siderophile
elements, as it is unlikely for a tear-away effect to reach deep down to
the palnet's core, were iron's concentrated.
So, if we look at our own planet now, we notice a rather large iron core
(true, nobody but Shudde M'ell and his cronies ever saw it, but we have
other ways to get our data), surrounde dby thick layers of silicate rock.
If the percentages of elements on Tiamat are roughly the same as we get on
Earth, the planet born from Tiamat's side should be poor in iron by
comparison. Which means little or no magnetosphere (lots of cosmic
radiation - bad for life) and a different pattern of heat dispersion; that
in turn means there's a reduced rate of convective movements in the mantle.
As a result, continental plates move at a slower rate, or can't move at
all. Tectonics slow down, no mountains are formed, oceans do not spread.
The planet is dead - like the Moon.
If on the other hand the iron in the Earth core comes from the chunk that
Nibiru bit off Tiamat, and is therefore just a fraction thereof, then we
have to imagine Tiamat as a large planet with a very large amount of iron
as its constituent - probably more iron that it's available in the system.
Why such a concentrated iron should be so far out in the system's also a
problem, because gravitation should tend to keep it closer to the sun, but
let's not get into that...
Tiamat should be very large also to account for all the rest of the matter
that's distributed between Mars and Jupiter, and that Nibiru's discoverer
claims to be the planet's remains.
I do not have figures at the moment, but Tiamat would be a hell of a planet
- large as one of the outer planets, with a gravity well that would
probably cause Mars orbit's to wobble.
Nibiru, in turn, to be large/massive enough to gravitationally break-up
Tiamat, should be another heavy weight.
As I already noted, we should get Nibiru's gravitational pull from here -
and increasing, as it goes with the square of the distance, and Nibiru's
supposedly getting closer.
Finally, we have the other elements - the calcophile and litophile stuff -
of which there is not enough between Earth and asteroids to give Tiamat a
proper litosphere and crust.
Tiamat would be a large molten iron ball withg a thin skin of crust.
Little or no radioactive elements (they are litophiles), but plenty of gold
and platinum.
You picture the place (more about this later).
So what we get is
. a . planet like no other we ever saw, both structurally and chemically.
. b . a wandering planet that should wreak havok on our system at regular
intervals, but...
. c . no orbital irregularities to justify it.
What's this about orbital irregularities?
Well, orbits are not arbitrary tracks followed by planets - there's rules
governing them.
And if all of a sudden you push or pull a planet off its track (like the
appearance of Nibiru and the destruction of Tiamat would cause), it's not
likely that it will just start running on a difefrent path and that's it.
Orbital destabilization usually causes the planet either to sprint
off-system, or to fall into the sun (which means other problems, as you can
guess).
So, all in all, the Nibiru Hypothesis does not survive Occam's razor - what
we see in our planetary system, from planetary chemistry to orbits and
planet positions work perfectly without Nibiru and Tiamat, and what's more,
doing without those two spares us a lot of trouble.
And you can say it's not fair, but science also works that way.
But enough of this dry stuff, let's talk Mythos.
My kind of Mythos, if you will - with a liberal dash of science.
But I'll save that for a later message ;>
Sorry for the ramble so far (and the one to come)
Davide Mana
Torino, Italy
doctor.dee@iol.it
The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gregory A. Muir [gregmuir@flinet.com]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:07 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Last Monday's Buffy episode -- those guys gotta be Mythos
Jeanne Edna Thelwell wrote:
>
> Oh, yeah, they were something else. The first murder was really
> quite disturbing, even though you didn't actually see anything.
Exactly. Almost on a level with Psycho. Not being able to see anything
makes it all the more terrifying.
> Their henchmen were also well done (the unfastened strait jackets
> were a nice touch ) and, even though they were kind of comic, they
> made my skin crawl too. Exceptionally well done for prime time tv.
>
Agreed. I've always wanted to see Buffy take a Mythos turn once in a
while. I almost thought they did when they introduced the demon Asteroth
but then I realized it was spelled and pronounced differently. Besides,
how do you stake the insane chaos at the center of the universe?
Certainly not with Mr. Pointy!
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 6:13 AM
To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com'
Subject: DG: Seahenge update
For anyone who was following the Seahenge excavation in Norfolk (which I
wasn't with a close eye, hence the lateness of the link) here is a précis of
English Heritage's findings:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/Science/seahenge021299.shtml
Particularly interesting is the comment: "...the builders may have viewed
the tree as possessing a spiritual identity". Prehistoric avatars of
Nyarlathotep anyone?
UK listers may want to know about the C4 documentary about Seahenge on 29
December...
--
Adam Crossingham
E-mail: adam.crossingham@octavian1009.e-mail.com
Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not
necessarily the company.
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mike Marchi [mikemarchi@demonground.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 12:41 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Last Monday's Buffy episode -- those guys gotta be Mythos
> I recently put a lot of thought into writing a Buffy/CoC/DG article for
the
> DG website (one of those apocryphal intel reports, perhaps focusing on The
> Initiative as a Friendly organization), but, well, time's too short and
the
> copyright law is too dark and scary.
Shane,
I assume you're mostly concerned about the Buffy subject matter being a
cause for copyright concern (more so than the CoC or DG angle). Do you have
some reason to think that fan fiction based on Buffy is frowned upon by the
WB?
In DEMONGROUND, we regularily have references to various movies and
television programs that influence some of our contributors. We make sure
we include information attributing the inspiration to the proper source.
Most studios or publishers (there are exceptions) allow fan-related fiction
as long as you
1. aren't trying to make money off their trademark
2. aren't infringing on their ability to make money at it
3. are clear as to the rightful owner of the trademark
So far, we haven't had any problems.
If you should find yourself with the time to put together the Buffy/CoC/DG
article you mentioned ... why don't you submit it to DEMONGROUND too? We're
always looking for new material - especially for the game systems like Delta
Green that we've recently added to our lineup.
--
Mike Marchi (ICQ# 11878805)
Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future
www.demonground.org
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mike Marchi [mikemarchi@demonground.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 1:22 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Last Monday's Buffy episode -- those guys gotta be Mythos
> Most studios or publishers (there are exceptions) allow fan-related
fiction
> as long as you
> 1. aren't trying to make money off their trademark
> 2. aren't infringing on their ability to make money at it
> 3. are clear as to the rightful owner of the trademark
> So far, we haven't had any problems.
I think I should preemptively add a few things to the preceding. Copyrights
protect the rights of the creator of a work to exclusive use of that work.
If you have the permission of the creator, then copyright is not violated.
In this case the most appropriate action would be to send an e-mail to the
WB asking what their policy is regarding use of the Buffy characters for a
gaming article you want to write.
For more information on Internet copyright laws, a very good site is:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
--
Mike Marchi (ICQ# 11878805)
Editor - DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future
www.demonground.org
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [sivey@zealot.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 1:29 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: DG: Buffy (c) & tm issues
Actually, Fox has earned a great deal of notoriety recently in going after
Buffy fan sites that crossed the line by publishing images, sound files, and
(most egregiously) episode transcripts without permission. To my knowledge,
they have not bothered with fan fiction.
Publishing a Buffy-related article in a commercial website or other
publication still seems iffy to me, though. In a forum that is not meant to
make money, things may be a little more easy-going, but that may not be an
easy line to draw. Delta-Green.com isn't offered by subscription and makes
no income directly, but it is a promotional service for Pagan Publishing and
therefore has commercial value which would potentially be enhanced by an
article featuring trademark-protected Buffy materials. Which could
translate to legal liability if we crossed that line.
At least, that's my admittedly fuzzy take on it. Anyone with more accurate
information (Alphonse? Any of the lawyers on the list?) should correct it
as needed.
Shane Ivey
www.zealot.com - www.gamejudge.com - www.delta-green.com
HECKLERS ONLINE IS HIRING: Programmers (HTML, AOL, Java, C++, Shockwave,
PERL, PHP), Writers (Comedy, Game Reviews), Graphic Artists,
Webcasters/Audio Producers, & Ad Sales Reps - email me!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com [mailto:owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com]On
Behalf Of Mike Marchi
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 12:41 PM
To: dgrpg@delta-green.com
Subject: Re: DG: Last Monday's Buffy episode -- those guys gotta be Mythos
. . . .
Shane,
I assume you're mostly concerned about the Buffy subject matter being a
cause for copyright concern (more so than the CoC or DG angle). Do you have
some reason to think that fan fiction based on Buffy is frowned upon by the
WB?