From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 6:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: OSS and Hitler URLs I've been researching the OSS lately, and I found some interesting pages: http://www.wku.edu/~kuhlenschmidt/oss.htm links to some pages concerning the psychological assessment tests given to OSS candidates. I wish I had been on hand to watch Joe Camp taking the Construction Test. "Kippy" and "Buster"; priceless. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/profile-index .html links to the OSS psychological profile of Adolph Hitler. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gregory A. Muir [gregmuir@flinet.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 10:10 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Last Monday's Buffy episode -- those guys gotta be Mythos > > < while. I almost thought they did when they introduced the demon Asteroth > but then I realized it was spelled and pronounced differently. Besides, > how do you stake the insane chaos at the center of the universe? > Certainly not with Mr. Pointy!>> > > The show was explicitly derived from the Cthulhu Mythos from the beginning; Well damn me for not catching the first episode. > the first episode featured a long, expositional speech about the Old Ones, > ancient alien demons who pre-existed humanity but who are bound away in an > alternate plane until some uncertain date in the future in which they hope > to return. Then there have been all the encounters with creatures who could > easily be construed as renamed Deep Ones, Yig, and Shub-Niggurath (or at > least a dark young thereof). Hmm, this is interesting. The one thing I thought was lacking in the show is that they never put enough development effort into the backstory to give the episodes a greater history to play against. You would often end up with the ancient demon/cult/artifact of the week that's all powerful but has never been mentioned until now and can generally be wrapped up in an episode. I always shrugged this off by saying "hey, this is horror comedy, not B5, quit nitpicking." It's interesting that thought *was* put into the background but it's never really bled through in the episodes I've seen. Hmm. > > I recently put a lot of thought into writing a Buffy/CoC/DG article for the > DG website (one of those apocryphal intel reports, perhaps focusing on The > Initiative as a Friendly organization), but, well, time's too short and the > copyright law is too dark and scary. > Just say it's a parody. :) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gregory A. Muir [gregmuir@flinet.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 10:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Buffy (c) & tm issues > Publishing a Buffy-related article in a commercial website or other > publication still seems iffy to me, though. In a forum that is not meant to > make money, things may be a little more easy-going, but that may not be an > easy line to draw. Delta-Green.com isn't offered by subscription and makes > no income directly, but it is a promotional service for Pagan Publishing and > therefore has commercial value which would potentially be enhanced by an > article featuring trademark-protected Buffy materials. Which could > translate to legal liability if we crossed that line. > > At least, that's my admittedly fuzzy take on it. Anyone with more accurate > information (Alphonse? Any of the lawyers on the list?) should correct it > as needed. And the suits would of course ignore all associated benefits with having their show and things related to it featured in places that could very well attract new fans. This is absolutely insane and exactly what would probably happen. :( If one remembers back when Parasite went around busting up Trek fan sites in order to promote the "officially licensed Star Trek MSN Site", I remember it well . . . If people want Trek on the net it's MSN or nothing. I imagine how the meeting went. Suit Drone 1: "Hey, I got this great idea. Let's completely alienate the fanbase by acting like a bunch of boorish smegheads. After all, we need to protect our intellectual property, can't have fans dilluting the copyright by using images and sounds for free." Thinking Person: "Um, doesn't any value related to your intellectual property derive specifically from fan interest? If you drive away the fans the value you're trying to protect will vaporize. It's probably a better idea to suffer a little copyright erosion in order to build more support in the fanbase. After all, the more fans we have the more money we make." Suit Drone 1: "Again with that strange thing you call logic. No, my idea makes much more sense. And while we're at it, let's completely stifle any actual creative development related to the show so we can protect the value of the franchise." Thinking Person: "Well, it seems to me that what made Trek popular was it's liveliness, it's willingness to experiment and push boundaries. If you starch, press, and package the concept then you remove the exact properties that made it popular." Suit Drone 2: "Get this looser out of here! We've still got to discuss ways to add more of a Gen-X edge to Voyager." From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 4:38 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: players in Seattle Hello All, Jason Moore wrote almost unbelievably: > Is there anyone currently running a DG campaign in the > Seattle area? sorry for the waste of Bandwidth but LOL. I think that there is a group in Seattle that runs Delta Green but be carefull they have Kalashinikovs! ;-) especially be aware of that Tynes guy, hair trigger I believe :-) ObDG: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_572000/572529.stm interesting article from a DG perspective if you translate the risks as incidences of Cthonian activity. A geologist friendly has a run in with one Cthonian and then maps this out. (sorry I will have performed summon Davide now!) ;-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/newsid_575000/575635.stm some excellent pictures of the moon especially the last one where its rising over Alcatraz which may be of use to anyone running a SF based campign maybe even The Stars Are Right is that a Byakhee backlit by the moon? BCNU Rob. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@iol.it] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 10:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Cthonian Risk Map Greetings. Rob summoned what he could not be able to put down and wrote... >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_572000/572529.stm > >interesting article from a DG perspective if you translate the risks >as incidences of Cthonian activity. A geologist friendly has a run in >with one Cthonian and then maps this out. (sorry I will have >performed summon Davide now!) ;-) It's not the Summon spell that matters, old man, it's the Bind! Anyway, here's a pair of silly ideas. Please notice I'm not overly conversant with Cthonians - I read just the first Crow book, in a bad translation and a long time ago, and little else, so much of what I know about the guys comes from the Ecyclopedia Cthulhiana or from CoC supplements. And yet, as it can be plainly imagined, I'm quite interested in cthonians, and have produced over the years a lot of pseudology on the critters, including a set of theories about how could geologists become aware of cthonian activity. What I'd love to know is - do Cthonians favour a specific tectonic setting? If the answer is yes, this might give us a lot of insight about their biology and ecology. 'Tectonic setting' after all translates into temperature, pressure, and chemistry of the environment. If the answer is no, then the new Seismic Map covered by the BBC site is most probably useless. Infact, if the Cthonians do not have pregerential habitats, then they could be anywere under the crust. Cthonian activity in high stress areas, already subject to a high number of seismic events, would simply be lost in the mess. Cthonian activity in non-seismic areas would probably have been edited out of the final published map as "that's in the middle a stable craton. it's a fluke". Think it unlikely? I still remember a German friend (and geology student) greeting the news of the '92 quake in the Rhine valley with the words "Pull the other one. The Rhine Graben's notoriously a non-seismic area." She was later quite relieved when she discovered that her parents's house had been only slightly damaged - but she had to get the radio broadcast of the news to believe it. There was no way we (her course fellows) could convince her. [for some reasons she considered us all a bunch of jokers] So, any idea about the Cthonian's favourite hangout? Later. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of becole@juno.com Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 10:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthonian Risk Map On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:09:43 +0100 Davide Mana writes: >SNIPPAGE> >If the answer is no, then the new Seismic Map covered by the BBC site >is most probably useless. >Cthonian activity in non-seismic areas would probably have been edited >out of the final published map as "that's in the middle a stable craton. >it's a fluke". > >So, any idea about the Cthonian's favourite hangout? I don't know if this is even feasible, but I'm assuming from your reference to the BBC site 'seismic map' that, as a whole, the Earth's tectonic landscape is mapped out, and with all the recent activity in Turkey (reported live by Tolga) and......damn, short term memory failure, there was another spot where a quake had struck... Anyway, what if you looked at the bigger picture (using a map) and plotted the instances of earthquakes (this would work out SO much better if earthquakes had vectors of travel or specific directions in which they traveled, I honestly don't know if they do or don't) and could plot/create 'linear' paths of travel based off of times/dates of the earthquakes that showed 'movement' towards a certain point on the planet....what if you were already there when you pieced it together??? OF course, I guess you would first have to decide if Cthonians would want to congregate, and if they did, why? Or perhaps, for who???Maybe Cthonians migrate (heaven help the cities along their travel path).... -B From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of jpetheri@cyberbeach.net Sent: Thursday, December 23, 1999 12:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cthonian Risk Map On Thursday, December 23, 1999 at 03:09:43 PM, Davide Mana wrote: The Delta Green consulting geologist posited: > > What I'd love to know is - do Cthonians favour a specific tectonic setting? > > If the answer is yes, this might give us a lot of insight about their > biology and ecology. 'Tectonic setting' after all translates into > temperature, pressure, and chemistry of the environment. > I am also not particularly conversant with the Cthonians, but they would likely favour certain locations for nutritional reasons. If they have something remotely similar to a conventional metabolism, they probably require a particular element or elements as trace nutrients. Or possibly a particular combination of elements or minerals. Even if they subsist on a thermal or pressure based metabolism, there would also be a set or range of preferred conditions. These might be required for survival, for growth or for reproduction. Since Cthonians apparently have a life cycle and reproduce, it is also probable that they require different nutrients or conditions at different stages in the life cycle. Seismic activity may be the result of migrations of a year / decade / century-class of young from one feeding ground to another. > If the answer is no, then the new Seismic Map covered by the BBC site is > most probably useless. > > Infact, if the Cthonians do not have pregerential habitats, then they could > be anywere under the crust. > Cthonian activity in high stress areas, already subject to a high number of > seismic events, would simply be lost in the mess. > Cthonian activity in non-seismic areas would probably have been edited out > of the final published map as "that's in the middle a stable craton. it's a > fluke". > If the Cthonians move in search of nutrients, they might move into a stable craton if it once had seismic activity. (I'm about to venture into geology, so Davide will probably roast me). The Pre-Cambrian shield, an area identified as stable on the above map, was once active in terms of both volcanism and seismic events. Most of the economic mineral concentrations are located along or near fault zones, nost of which are no longer subject to significant activity. The Timmins-Matheson-Rouyn-Noranda corridor is a good example of these fault zones. The significant exceptions to this are meteorite impacts, with my current home being the most famous. Even in this stable mass, there are seismic events unrelated to human activity. People expect this, although it's disconcerting to be underground when one occurs. Could these be the result of Cthonian migrations to feed on these mineral concentrations? The other alternative, of course, is that Cthonians find the pressure changes and piezoelectric discharges associated with seismic activity to be pleasurable. So they move to high activity areas to "surf" the waves. ======================================== John Petherick, CIH e-mail: jpetheri@cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Did you know ? Cyber Beach has extended its monthly plan to 300 HOURS per month. Happy Surfing ! http://www.cyberbeach.net ----------------------------------------------- Brought to you by Cyber Beach's BottleMail ! http://www.cyberbeach.net From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 6:18 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Invasion of the Ice Weasels (was Re: DG: Re: Legal issues) Graeme wrote: > ObDG (and you didn't think it could be done on this thread, did you?): > This reminds me... on my return from the supermarket a couple of nights > ago, I opened my bags to find a pot of yogurt had burst and was proceeding > to coat everything else in the bag. The thought which proceeded to run > through my mind can best be summed up by associating the following phrases: > > Protomatter. > MJ-12 Food Scientists. > Strategic Medium Range Yoghurt Factory. [redacted] This reminds me of a Cold War era joke: TASS Press Release, 198x, Moscow. After a collision with an iceberg, the USS Enterprise has sunk today. The crew of the iceberg has been nominated Heroes of Soviet Union. OBDGML: I'm pleased to announce that my review of "DG:AI", titled "Wspomnienia z koszmaru" ("Remembrances of a nightmare") got published in Issue 120 - December 1999 of "Miesięcznik" ("Monthly") - journal of Silesian Science-Fiction and Fantasy Lovers Club. This is in Polish[1], and not avaliable online yet - "Monthly" is avaliable online a month later than paper version. This is a third mention of DG in Polish gaming literature (after two articles DG description in "Magia i Miecz" magazine). Alex [1] I could attempt to translate it if begged enough :-) -- * | Janusz A. "Alex" Urbanowicz, | DSS: 1024/0x21939169 --+~| | http://eris.phys.uni.torun.pl/~alex/ | D-H: 2048/0xA2E48564 \_|/ | |_ RSA: 512/0xAB425659 | | "Hell is only a word. Reality is much worse." From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew john Farrow [afarrow@kirkmoorrd.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 4:50 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: poisoning reservoirs for the ultimate " poisoned water " scam checkout - " the committee" by david seaman - isbn No- 0 7088 1556 1 . uk edition by futara the basic plot is -" use a high pressure pump to inject a strontium 90 solution/ suspension into a water main via an adaptor connected to a domestic supply pipe " the theory being - guarding reservoirs would be piontless , the terrorists could strike from any location , they could escape before an attack was detected . my latest book reccomendation - " ultra" by tim sebastian - isbn 0 75280 792 7 while it has no mythos content - it is a 1st rate conspiracy thriller on "gulf war syndrome" - and spliced w/- elements from the " immortals" story from thr dg website and some imagination it has the makings of a dg adventure . final thanks - to martin ostergaard 4 his link to http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/Map_collection.html its just what i have been looking for From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 7:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com; mark.mcfadden@warnerbros.com Subject: DG: Neo-Nazi URL with some possibilities I was using a new search engine (google.com) looking for signs of a cousin of mine on the Net. While sorting through the chaff I found this: http://www.14words.com/ The home of 14 Words Press. Well, I can't leave something so cryptic alone, so I delved deeper. The 14 Words refers to quote by David Lane (who I will have to research further), a "racialist" with pretensions of paganism. The 14 Words (yes, it's always capitalized) are: We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children. Some of the books available are: 88 PRECEPTS Auto-Biographical Portrait of the Life of DAVID LANE & the 14 Word Motto THE MYSTERY RELIGIONS & THE SEVEN SEALS.....Introduction to Hermetic Philosophy and the Teachings of David Lane WODENSSON IN VERSE.....that the beauty of the White Aryan woman shall not perish from the earth! REVOLUTION BY NUMBER WHITE GENOCIDE MANIFESTO Also, they appear to be the press organ for a group called Wotansvolk. Suddenly all the graphics are a weird Celtic-Viking hodgepodge with more beards and muscles than a San Francisco "bear" convention. As almost always happens when reading white racist spoor, there is a pathetically obvious psychosexual dynamic that permeates every paragraph. One page is very revealing, and goes hand in hand with the "that the beauty of the White Aryan woman shall not perish from the earth!" vibe from above. More queasy worrying about White Aryan womanhood being, well, you can't quite make out whether they are being defiled or (shudder) *seduced*!! The graphic is a bride in white lingerie coyly undoing a garter, write c/o yada yada. Intrigued by the "Hermetic Philosophy and Teachings" of David Lane, I followed the link to Wotan's Volk and found the Iron Manifesto: "Before the dawn of recorded history was Wotan. Through the millennia the Aryan tribes have called him Odin, Woden or Wotan. Recognizing that religious belief springs from the soul of a people, from the consciousness of the blood, so sprang Wotan. Volk is Nordic for 'Folk,' the culture-producing, culture-bearing part of the race, who value ancestry and heritage! Wotansvolk live by these 14 Words: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children." Wotansvolk have appeared and reappeared throughout the endless chapters of history. When Aryan survival is threatened, the spirit of Wotan re-emerges in the race. Wotansvolk is a state-of-mind, a folk-consciousness, both individual and collective. To be Wotansvolk is to fulfill the upward evolutionary path of natural instinct and biological determination. It is the will to preserve our own kind by the acknowledgment of our genetic uniqueness. It is to honor our ancestors who have built the greatest civilizations ever to exist on this planet. It is an innate battle spirit with a noble mission and the courage of steel which knows not fear. It is the will to victory and the ability to secure it. Wotansvolk is a pure expression of Nature in its unquestionable perfection. The first and highest law of Nature is the preservation of one's own kind. Nature decrees that 'might is right' and the will to survive justifies the means. After two thousand years of universalist, alien religion imposed by force of government on the Aryan tribes, White man must face his reality. Racial integration is genocide, forced integration is deliberate and malicious genocide. Until the Wotan consciousness awakens our racial imperative, extinction is a very real danger. Wotan is the spirit within the Aryan male which tortures his soul with the knowledge that the beauty of the Aryan woman may soon cease to exist on the earth forever if the 14 Words do not become reality. The spirit of Wotan must again stir the souls of our valient warriors, to unite us in purpose and to inspire wisdom, courage and noble deeds. The power of Wotansvolk is invincible and eternal. To be triumphant is the only recourse; there are no alternatives; there is no compromise. So, as generations of our martyred forefathers laid the foundation for our continued existence, we strengthen that chain of heredity with our nature ordained determination and duty. It is the mystery of the blood. Wotansvolk rises out of the mystical soul of our people to bind us together as one Folk, one Destiny, certain Victory! HAIL WOTAN! .......HAIL VICTORY! ......HAIL THE 14 WORDS! ****************************************************************************** ************************************************ Me again. "I'm not sure I like the sound o' them boncentration bamps." It seems to me that someone's been into the Cliff's Notes "Mein Triumph". Note the typos in the era of spellchecking. 88 Precepts, 14 Words, Hermetic Philosophy, Seven Seals and REVOLUTION BY NUMBER. Is this guy some kinda goyim kabbalist or what? But that's not all! They also have T-shirts and (coming soon) belt buckles. You've got to wonder about the esthetic or crossed wiring that feels a T-shirt with a poorly drawn Viking saying: "Kinsmen, just as fear is contagious likewise is courage and chivalry. He who fears death will never do anything worthy of a living man. Kinsmen! If your folk and heritage are not worth fighting for, then I ask you.......What is??" is a must-have fashion accessory. These guys are about as subtle as a hardon. I was also fond of the Romanesque Nazi eagle standard grasping a wreath that says "14 Words". All that was missing was a button saying "Ask me about the 14 Words". Just the destiny-laden White Race, being superior. ObDG: just a little flavoring for anyone contemplating US-based Karotechia plots. Wotanism seeking tax-free status? Racism protected as a religious practice? Mark McFadden If Kabbala is based on Hebrew and the Torah is code, what text and language are these guys using? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Tim Craft [deadtim@thefaxcompany.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 10:19 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Book Stuff Just finished a book that is somewhat DG-related. It's called UFO's, JFK, and Elvis by Richard Belzer. Yes, THAT Richard Belzer. Great, great book for those interested in conspiracy theories and such (and aren't we all??). There are basicallly two sections, one about JFK and the other about UFO's. He touches on Majestic-12 and quite a bit of other stuff that I *thought* was fiction, but appears to be fact! (at least as far as Belz puts it) Go buy this book! DeadTim (and no, just because I *look* like Richard Belzer does not mean I *am* Richard Belzer) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:40 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Neo-Nazi URL with some possibilities This neo-Nazi stuff sounds a little like some of the rhetoric used by the neo-Nazis from Clive Cussler's newest novel "Atlantis Found". (I wonder if Cussler also found it on the net, and adapted some of it for these newest villains to confront Dirk Pitt and NUMA?) By the way, I recommend Cussler's book as a possible source for some DG ops -- parts of it sound like the Special K (or a splinter group thereof) up to new versions of their old tricks... With megalomaniacal plots and conspiracies, adventures in Antarctica, Nazi U-boats, odd artifacts of long-lost civilizations, and... Well, "that would be telling!" Michael Layne (No relation whatever to the neo-Nazi -- who even spells his last name differently!) DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "Swastikas! They're wearing _swastikas_! We beat those guys forty-five years ago, and I'm still fighting guys wearing _swastikas_!" -- Captain America ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Gregory A. Muir [gregmuir@flinet.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 12:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Something many have probably seen but is worth mentioning again I'm sure that many of you have seen this one before but, for the benefit of those of you who haven't, I decided to post it to the list. Personally I think it's one of the greatest Mythos filk songs ever. The effect works the best if you sing along to it out loud. Sung to the theme of ``Tiny Toon Adventures'': We're slimey, we're squishy, we're all a little fishy, and in this adventure we'll be feasting on your brains. We're abysmal creatures, with gross horrific features. In Cthuloid adventures, lose alot of sanity. So here's Miskatonic U. where all the creatures dwell, take a look at a mythos book and find yourself in hell. Your guns aren't defective, they just aren't real effective. Our feast of human flesh and souls is about to start. Your magic, and voodo will not stop Great Cthulhu. Don't eat with the Tchoo Tchoo, and the Migo steal your brain! Here's Narly, Tsathoggua, over there's Cthugha, don't forget Ithaqua, and Hastur hates his name. So here's sunken R'lyeh where the angles are all wrong. You'll lose your soul, and go insane if you stay there too long. We're slimey, we're squishy, we're all a little fishy, Our feast of human flesh and souls is about to start. And now we'll eat your heart. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jesper Anderson [jesper@pobox.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 1:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Snowcrash ideas On Tue, Dec 28, 1999 at 10:52:33AM -0600, G. Wyckoff wrote: > > In Snowcrash, the "neuro-linguistic hacking" is presented as a programming > language, not a "voice technique" ala Dune. In essence, the method used > to manipulate the brain in Snowcrash relies on the idea of there being a > "machine language" that the brain operates on which can actually be > interpreted into syllables which can be pronounced by humans. Also, it only works on computer programmers. Ho hum. > The Bene Gesserit used a technique which was, in my opinion, > believable but less "realistic" then the portrayal in Snowcrash. Actually, the Snowcrash aproach is completely in disagreement with what we know of the human nervous system. The Dune aproach is much more realistic, much more believable and of course, the book is a lot better. I can't recommend Snowcrash. I had it recommended by many people, but when I read it I was severely disappointed. The author has very little grasp about a lot of things that he places as central in the plot, making it extremely illogical and at times severely forced. Besides, all the stuff that was allegedly so groundbreaking in Snowcrash wasn't, so nobody's missing anything by not reading it. Just my counterweight opinion. :) Jesper -- Assassination can seldom be employed with a clear conscience. Persons who are morally squeamish should not attempt it. -- CIA, "Operation PB Success" training files From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 3:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Snowcrash ideas In a message dated 12/28/99 9:18:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, gwyckoff@midway.uchicago.edu writes: << In Snowcrash, the "neuro-linguistic hacking" is presented as a programming language, not a "voice technique" ala Dune. In essence, the method used to manipulate the brain in Snowcrash relies on the idea of there being a "machine language" that the brain operates on which can actually be interpreted into syllables which can be pronounced by humans. The Bene Gesserit used a technique which was, in my opinion, believable but less "realistic" then the portrayal in Snowcrash. >> Indeed. In Dune, Jessica had to study the two Harkonnen guards for a few minutes to get a feel for what tones would work on them. The Snowcrash ur-language worked universally and instantly. The Invisibles had an issue awhile back that had the team being attacked with words in ur-language. The unseen assailant croons that there are more than 26 letters in the alphabet, and he knows them all. Then another blast of Wingdings and everyone's eyes roll back into their skulls. There was also a cryptic remark about someone's conditioning starting to break down when they accidentally saw a "triple-u" in some urban grafitti. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of moorebros@earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Snowcrash ideas For those of you who don't read The Invisibles: The King in Yellow is making an appearance as villian in the current story line. I couldn't sum up all the plots in just a few paragraphs, but there is a kick ass web site with issue by issue breakdowns that are bursting with Delta Green-type ideas. http://barbelith.com/bomb/splash.htm Today I armbarred 6 guys!!! Roger Moore Shane Ivey wrote: > < break down when they > accidentally saw a "triple-u" in some urban grafitti.>> > > At least the sign wasn't Yellow. > > Shane Ivey > www.zealot.com - www.gamejudge.com - www.delta-green.com > HECKLERS ONLINE IS HIRING: Programmers (HTML, AOL, Java, C++, Shockwave, > PERL, PHP), Writers (Comedy, Game Reviews), Graphic Artists, > Webcasters/Audio Producers, & Ad Sales Reps - email me! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:06 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: Re: DG: Burning Zone From: Colin Creitz > In Snow Crash, for those unfortuante enough not to have read it, > Stephenson postulates the existence of a sort of meta-language underlying > the language-learning mechanism of the brain - every sentence uttered in > that language engages deep mechanisms in the brain during speech > processing, causing efffects other than those usually accompanying hearing > - for instance, shutting down voluntary muscular activity in the legs, or > causing the sentence's propositional content to be believed and obeyed > unconditionally. A bit far-fetched but good in a "What magic?" type > campaign. I just loved it for the killer Inuit, myself. But another bit that might be of interest--not about viruses, but about reprogramming your brain. Shades of Robert Anton Wilson. It's in the Dec 29-Jan 3 edition of Newsweek, called "Rewiring Your Gray Matter," by Sharon Begley. I recognize that Newsweek, like all general news sources when reporting on science, is unlikely to have gotten the facts straight, but it is nonetheless quite interesting. It reads like a description of some of the doings at the OUTLOOK group. Of course, that's only if you've rewired your brain for conspiracy-spotting. Dave PS: That's the East Asian edition of Newsweek--the date could be different for the European or American editions. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@iol.it] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 1:35 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Snowcrash ideas Greetings. The subject was 'neuro-linguistic hacking' - nice figure of speech, but.... >In Snowcrash, the "neuro-linguistic hacking" is presented as a programming >language, not a "voice technique" ala Dune. In essence, the method used >to manipulate the brain in Snowcrash relies on the idea of there being a >"machine language" that the brain operates on which can actually be >interpreted into syllables which can be pronounced by humans. not overly original as a concept. More of the same, apart from the bene Gesserit Voice: . Jack Vance - The Languages of Pao . Samuel R. Delany - Babel-17 Language is a weapon. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@iol.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nick Brownlow [stabernide@netscape.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 12:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [RE: DG: Snowcrash ideas] >Dammit. After spending the last hour at that website I now have to go and >buy every issue of The Invisibles ever published. Thanks a friggin lot, >DGML. Relax- there's at least three trade paperback reprints on the shelves at the moment which should ease the strain on your wallet (most of the early episodes would set you back a small fortune otherwise). the Invisbles: Say You Want a Revolution- collects the first seven (possibly eight) episodes of vol 1. ISBN: 1563892677 the Invisibles: Bloody Hell In America- first few episodes of vol. 2 ISBN: 1563894440 the Invisibles: Counting to None- vol 2 continued ISBN: 1563894890 all available from amazon, as well, I see. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@iol.it] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 5:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: FWD: Roger Penrose / Penrose tiling / quantum consciousness Greetings. I just received a post from a non roleplaying gentleman by the name of Andy Robertson, that happened to pass through the Cave a while back and was apparently impressed by the stuff he found there (we can all collectively pat each other's shoulder). I of course invited the gentleman to join our list, and I hope he will - he seems to have quite a few sanity-shattering ideas of his own - with the added bonus that he does not look like the kind of guy that manufactures his own gold or his anti-gravity devices in the basement while keeping a day job as a rollerblade courier. Wheter he decides to join our happy family or not, I decided to forward his message to you all anyway. I guess someone will be interested (are you there, Mark?) Good night. Davide Mana ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- I have been reading some of your archives, particularly the ones related to the Mythos entities from a scientific POV. GREAT stuff! Now here's my twopennyworth. I think that the work of the UK scientist SIR ROGER PENROSE would be an excellent source to plunder for Delta Green scenarios. Consider PENROSE TILING. A good link for this is http://tony.ai/KW/goldenpenrose.html another is http://www.mathcs.carleton.edu/penrose/ Penrose tiling is a way of tiling a surface (covering it without any gaps) using two different shaped tiles. The tiling is APERIODIC - it does not repeat if you move sideways or up and down by any finite distance. Mythos relevance? The classic Penrose tiling is done with two different shaped diamonds. One of these has internal angles of 36 and 144 degrees: one has opening angles of 72 and 108 degrees. That is to say, 1/10 and 4/10 of a circle, and 2/10 and 3/10 of a circle. Now check out the first link above to see a tiling . . . What does this remind you of . . . . ? I know what it reminds me of. Certain arabesques which " . . displayed a profound use of mathematical principles, and were made up of obscurely symmetrical angles and curves based in the quantity of five . . . " The wall decorations of the Star-headed Antarctic Old Ones! Amazing how the Mythos keeps popping up in real life and real science, isn't it? Makes you think Lovecraft knew more than he let on . . . . Obviously the classic Penrose tiling was the foundation of the Old One's geometric/decorative art, much as the beehive and the lattice are the foundations of the art that is pleasing to our simpler mammalian minds. And it's even better than that, because in fact Penrose tiling can be shown to be mathematically what you get when you slice a five-dimensional hypercubic array with a plane at an angle which gives an irrational ratio . . Never mind. Just trust me that "The windowless solids with five dimensions" are in there as well. Penrose's books can be gotten at Amazon.com. Try to get hold of THE EMPEROR's NEW MIND and/or SHADOWS OF THE MIND. I haven't mentioned QUASICRYSTALS, the mathematical linkage between Penrose tiling and the TRAPDOOR FUNCTIONS which web security depends on, or Penrose's loonier speculations on other subjects such as the QUANTUM NATURE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. Prepare for sanity checks. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of moorebros@earthlink.net Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 7:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: The Invisibles I'd say the story really hits its stride in the second series, and you could enjoy it almost as much, starting from there. Besides, finding the back issues for the first series is just plain murder. But "IF" you're a completist, don't forget the Vertigo Winter special with the "Cut 'n' dress up King Mob and Fanny". Hours of fun there, Shane, hours.... Another great conspiracy comic shaping up is Planatary by Warren Ellis. Easy to read as there are less than ten issues so far. This has a Mythos investigator feel to is and is a grand story to boot. It's basically the back story to the Wildstorm Universe (ignoring all the very stupid mass market, horribly written parts, thank god!) being rediscovered by three superhero agents working for a mysterious agency. Beautiful, mad ideas as one writer put it. http://www.warrenellis.com/ And while I'm on comic watch, I'd also like to mention The Authority where Warren Eliis and Brian Hitch are spinning a tale about the Old Gods coming back to savage the earth. A bit of fluffing up the easy chair before they sit down. The Authority is the remains of the old Stormwatch book. I don't think any super hero is going to save us in D-G, but any book where the gay superman "sterilizes" the moon has got my vote as fairly original. Trying to get more cash out of Shane's wallet and back into the economy, Roger Nick Brownlow wrote: > >Dammit. After spending the last hour at that website I now have to go and > >buy every issue of The Invisibles ever published. Thanks a friggin lot, > >DGML. > > Relax- there's at least three trade paperback reprints on the shelves at the > moment which should ease the strain on your wallet (most of the early episodes > would set you back a small fortune otherwise). > > the Invisbles: Say You Want a Revolution- collects the first seven (possibly > eight) episodes of vol 1. ISBN: 1563892677 > > the Invisibles: Bloody Hell In America- first few episodes of vol. 2 ISBN: > 1563894440 > > the Invisibles: Counting to None- vol 2 continued ISBN: 1563894890 > > all available from amazon, as well, I see. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 7:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: FWD: Roger Penrose / Penrose tiling / quantum consciousness In a message dated 12/29/99 3:06:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, doctor.dee@iol.it writes: << I guess someone will be interested (are you there, Mark?)>> Huh? Whuzzat? Checks in the mail. Zzzzzzzzzzzz. << I think that the work of the UK scientist SIR ROGER PENROSE would be an excellent source to plunder for Delta Green scenarios. >> I've read Penrose quotes in other people's books, but now I'm gonna have to read first hand. << Amazing how the Mythos keeps popping up in real life and real science, isn't it? Makes you think Lovecraft knew more than he let on . . . . Obviously the classic Penrose tiling was the foundation of the Old One's geometric/decorative art, much as the beehive and the lattice are the foundations of the art that is pleasing to our simpler mammalian minds. >> I know this much.....Penrose tiling will figure prominenty in any Mythos graphics I produce. << And it's even better than that, because in fact Penrose tiling can be shown to be mathematically what you get when you slice a five-dimensional hypercubic array with a plane at an angle which gives an irrational ratio . . Never mind. Just trust me that "The windowless solids with five dimensions" are in there as well. >> My SAN is going. I can feel it. Stop Andy. Please stop..........Daisy, Daisy give me your answer do......I'm...half cra...zzzyyyy..... <> That's where I've encountered Penrose recently: Quantum Psychology by (I swear, I don't read the guy exclusively, he just has a lot of DG relevance) Robert Anton Wilson. Synchronicity is rearing it's non-local head even as I type. I logged on to throw out some ideas that occurred to me on seeing Albert Einstein being chosen as Time's (Person) of the Century. Here's the gist of what I've been thinking about: You can make a pretty good case for a civilization's philosophy being a reflection of the state of science at the time. Consider, pre-Newton the world was a random place with arbitrary rules put in place by God. No particular rhyme or reason other than God's Will, and don't ask what that consists of. Then Newton (I'm condensing and glossing here) presents a clockwork universe that could be depended on and predicted accurately. So of course the Age of Reason took to ignoring God, he wasn't necessary to the workings of Nature anymore. And if God wasn't necessary, and kings got there authority from God...? Then along comes Darwin to give every greedy rat bastard slithering across the face of the earth a convenient excuse for their behavior. Er, I mean along came social Darwinism and a bold new direction for Western civilization. And Einstein? Even if you couldn't understand the math, relativity had it's effect. Papers and magazines and plays of the time all asked what effect relativity would have on painting and writing and ballet and politics and religion and fashion and and and. James Joyce gave a good enough answer to torture generations of pedants. And now we are beginning to integrate quantum physics into our philosophy. And psychology. So what's next? Would the Endtimes be an inevitable result of our harnessing Mythos science/magick? Those UFO glyphs have a lot of potential and I don't see us abandoning our research because it drives the researchers insane. The insanity comes from *understanding* the science\magick behind the glyphs. So put up with a few kooky scientists, then hand over the findings about the glyphs to engineers, who don't need to have the research epiphany to design machines to utilize the Glyph Effect. Some savants can "see" 23 dimensions. Plenty of other people can't, but it doesn't keep them from working with the equations and graphing the results. The ability to *comprehend* Mythos science/magick isn't necessary to engineer products that utilize it. So what are the social, sexual, artistic, political and philosophical implications of Mythos products available at Sears? What would be in the Edmund Scientific catalogue? HeathKit? Here's a thought: would the technology depend on belief? Would Mythos machinery stop working in the presence of Amish observers? Would it work better around true believers? Check out Waldo by Robert A. Heinlein. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 9:02 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: UA Madness/CoC SAN, VERSION 1 (long) Some time back, I vowed to write up ideas for using the very interesting Madness rules from _Unknown Armies_ in CoC. Now, that time has come... (DA-duhhhh). OK, I've got 3 versions of the rules to do this, each of progressively greater complexity. All three versions will require you have access to the UA rulebook for details--I'm not going to risk robbing Tynes and Stolze. If any of this sounds appealing to you, go buy the book--it's available through Pagan or Atlas Games (product # AG6000, ISBN 1-887801-70-7), among other sources. Florian already wrote up some of the reasons for trying this, so I'll skip that. Here's VERSION 1, which imports the UA rules for "Hardening," without much changing the CoC SAN rules. ===================================== Take the normal CoC SAN rules. However, when a SAN roll succeeds, the player becomes Hardened (resistant to further SAN loss). Add a new characteristic, "Hardened," to the character sheet. The character gets Hardened points according to how potentially damaging the SAN-loss would have been if the SAN roll had failed, as follows: SAN loss=1, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8: 1 point of Hardening SAN loss=1d10, 1d12, 2d8: 2pts of Hardening SAN loss=1d20, 2d10, etc: 3 pts of Hardening SAN loss=1d100: 4 points of Hardening (Only use the SAN loss for failure; e.g.: SAN loss 1/1d10 would yield 2 pts of Hardening if the SAN roll succeeded, but the character would still suffer 1 point of SAN loss. For other levels of SAN loss, like 1d4+1, just use your imagination and fit them in with the above chart.) [Example: Agent NERVY returns home from a hard day chopping up bad guys with her katana, only to find a Ghoul in her living room, playing Monopoly with her kids (who don't seem to notice it's a Ghoul). SAN loss is 0/1d6. Nervy makes her roll, so she gains Hardened 1.] [Example: Agent LIZARD KING is smoking some Liao Drug in the bath. He drifts back far enough in time to run across a Hound of Tindalos (SAN loss 1d3/1d20). He succeeds in his SAN roll (still taking 1d3 loss, though), and gains Hardened 3. (When the Nihilists come for a visit with their vicious ferret, he'll be ready.)] Advantage of Hardening: Players can use it to resist further SAN loss. If the character's Hardened score is equal to or greater than the _maximum_ SAN-loss in an event, then the player cannot lose SAN in that event and has no need to make a roll at all. However, if the Hardened score is even one point less than the maximum potential SAN loss, it doesn't help a bit. Thus, it's not quite like Armor. Also, if you don't have to roll, you get no Hardening--the little events that don't bother you anymore can't make you any tougher, either. [Example: Agent DR. DEE, who's time at the Turin Geology Department has earned him Hardened 5, is out looking for evidence of Cthonian shenanigans and is "surprised to find a corpse" (0/1d3 SAN--we'll say it's nobody he liked). Anyway, since the max SAN loss is 3, he doesn't need to roll at all--no SAN loss, no Hardening. However, when the 3rd-instar Cthonian juvenile suddenly rears up in front of him (1/1d10 SAN), Davide must roll and suffer SAN loss normally--his Hardened score does him no good at all. Even if he makes his roll, he'll still lose 1 SAN, but at least he'll gain 2 more points of Hardening.] Disadvantages of Hardening: The more Hardened the character becomes, the more callous, unemotional, detached, alienated, etc. the character is. This should mainly be taken care of through good role-playing, but the Keeper can, if the situation warrants it, subtract the Hardened score from the character's social skills (Persuade, Fast Talk, Psychology, Psychoanalyze, etc), or skills of expression (Acting, Painting, Dance, Writing, etc). [Example: Agent MIB is trying to Persuade a bunch of sniveling-ninny fellow agents that they should attack the giant monster that just ate half of the team. Since he's in a sort of "tough drill-sergeant" mode, he takes no penalty for having Hardened: 12. But later, while trying to convince some high-society ladies to let him into their party (so he can fry Thelassa Chandler), he takes -12 to his Fast Talk skill, as it's hard to be Mr. Congeniality when you've seen as much death and destruction as the MiB.] Also, if you can't lose SAN, you can't gain insight (Cthulhu Mythos skill). If you're too Hardened to lose SAN from a tome, you can't get any Cthulhu Mythos bonus or spells from it. Your jaded, callused brain just can't wrap itself around those insane concepts like it used to. You can still get skill points in other skills, such as Occult or Biology, if the text provides such bonuses, and you'll learn some facts, but they don't get into your subconscious. [Example: CO CHRISTOPHER's shadowy past has left him with Hardened: 9. He gets a copy of the 7 Cryptical Books of Hsan (SAN loss 1d4/1d8), makes his Read/Write Chinese roll, and learns a few things but gains no real insight (no bonus to Cthulhu Mythos skill). Then he tackles the R'lyeh Text (SAN loss 1d8/2d8), again succeeds with his Chinese roll, and gains +15 Cthulhu Mythos. He also has to make a SAN roll as normal, and he has the chance to learn some spells.] Hardening is no help when casting spells. Casting the Black Binding spell is going to cause your subconscious to twist in a way that your toughened fore-brain can't resist, so you're going to lose 1d6 SAN, no matter what. However, your Hardening will help you when the zombie rises up. Ditto for Calling/Summoning spells--Hardening is no use when casting the spell, but it works when you see the monster that is a result of the spell. Hardening can be "healed" in the same way and at the same rate as SAN loss. The player (or psychoanalyst) decides which to try to heal, SAN or Hardening. Only one can be tackled in a round of therapy. OPTION: It's possible to get pretty Hardened without ever encountering the Mythos, perhaps as much as Hardened 6 or so (long-time Homicide cop, 3rd-world refugee, etc). You could argue that people like that should still freak out when they meet a Ghoul or a Deep One for the first time. OK, try this: When encountering a wholly new and radically different SAN-loss event, the Keeper can decree that Hardening will do no good, this time. After a few times of meeting Deep Ones and other freaky lesser critters, the character's Hardening becomes Mythos-compliant. ========================================== Well, I hope that proves useful to somebody. The next one will be up in a day or two, most likely, and will be a step more complex, dividing Hardening into 5 classifications, as per Unknown Armies. The third one will essentially replace CoC SAN with UA Madness rules, and I'll have to run that by Tynes and Stolze for their approval before posting it, probably to the DG site and the Ice Cave if they'll take it (it'll be too long for the list, I think). I plan to tailor it so that you _have_ to have access to the UA rules to be able to use it. I don't want ANDREA coming after me. Dave