From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 12:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Memes links On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > The first thought a human being had . . . and our minds don't work like > digital computers anyway (more like analog) . . Our minds don't work like computers at all, overhyped neural networks aside. You might not have a mind at all, judged by the fact that you *still* refuse to trim your quotes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Juergen Hubert > To: > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: DG: Re: Memes links Ephemeral ideas linke memes operate on a completely seperate realm than the material - even the quantum. My high school math teacher summed it up nicely: "If I have an apple, and you have an apple, and we trade apples - we each end up with one apple. But if I have an idea, and you have an idea, and we exchange ideas, we each have two ideas." The propagation of ideas, related groups of ideas and their gradual mutation is worth study, but calling them memes and pretending it's kewl is worth two things: Jack and Shit - and Ash has informed me that Jack has recently left town. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 1:14 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, David Farnell wrote: > Oh, absolutely. And that's a real problem with CoC--why do people go > freaking insane when they read a book that wouldn't really impress them? > Like with Blair Witch--people who aren't primed for it, who aren't already > into such stuff, come away saying "What the fuck was that? I've never been > so bored in my life!" It is these people who display a lack of empathy combined with the inability to suspend disbelief. Sad, really. Just grift their money and go on with your life. As for bookish insanity, remember that it takes 60-70 weeks to read and comprehend the Necronomicon. That's over a year of pondering ancient greek, aramaic, or latin descriptions of hypergeometric principles cloaked in the occult tradition of centuries ago. This doesn't include spells contained therein, each of which must be decyphered seperately. It's not exactly easy reading for a few points of Cthulhu Mythos. Some Goth poseur will not be able to wrap their puny little minds around the book long enough to learn anything but a few catchphrases like: That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even Death is a hot chick from Vertigo. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 1:42 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe In a message dated 3/13/00 4:24:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: << You're right. But the hardware is equally important. Like with genetics, memetics is not a nature vs. nurture proposition--both are crucial, combining in chaotically complex ways. It's just that we--the only intelligent species we know--don't really have any radically different hardware to compare ours to (even if the dolphins prove to be geniuses, they still evolved alongside us--they'll be very different, but not nearly as alien as the Mi-Go), but we do have plenty of different Operating Systems available for comparison. >> OK, I'm with you. Hardware is important in the development of the OS. But, are you saying that brain (or whatever serves that function) *physical* structure determines receptivity to the Vibe? Because as much as I like the Vibe metaphor, I don't want to take the metaphor too literally. At some point we should drop the EM spectrum metaphor when it is no longer useful. Map and territory time. Just making Aldebaran's presence in the sky significant breaks down any broadcast metaphor using any Einsteinian model. Having said that, I'm going to keep using the Vibe metaphor because it describes TKiY propagation more often than not. But, I'm seeing TKiY packets on the QUIP network. Put down those cables and join me over here by this spiffy 2D pretending to be 3D representation of a virtual flowchart of symbolic relationships between messy details we will label with misleading node names. It all makes sense if you just present it properly. See, Aldeberan's position is significant because it makes the phlogiston *crunchier*. If you mean that physical structure determines the manner in which information is organized\interpreted\stored\retrieved and therefore determines the action\reaction of memes in the receiver, we're on the same page. But if physical structure is important because some lobes make better antennaes (which I don't think you were saying), I think we're driving on the map. Mark McFadden I'm really liking the Vibe as the list term for TKiY propagation, and UUU as the convention for the literal Yellow Sign. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of SGlancy12@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 3:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Contributor Payments for Countdown Okay, we've done this before, but we're doing it again. We've finally worked out the payments we owe for all the Agency Templates and other stuff from Delta Green: Countdown. So what we need now is to hear from everyone who contributed and find out whether you want your pay in free product or a check. Here's who I need to hear from: Bruce Ballon Adam Crossingham Ian Cunningham & Spooke Bruno Di Pentima Brent Dragoo David Farnell Doug Fougere Florian Hanke Jason Hersey Shane Ivey Mikko Kauppinen Rik Kershaw Moore David Kish Anders Larsson Davide Mana John Petherick KJ Potter Graeme Price Alan Smithee (Who wrote the Turkish material) JRE Thomas Phil Ward Mark Williamson If you don't contact me, I'll still be looking for you. Its just that it'll take a little longer to get you paid off because I'm buried alive under piles of work. A. Scott Glancy, Business Manager From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James Holloway [j_holloway26@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe > >Oh, absolutely. And that's a real problem with CoC--why do people go >freaking insane when they read a book that wouldn't really impress them? > I don't really see that as "a problem" with CofC. There is a perfectly good mechanism for not being too impressed by something - it's called "passing your SAN roll." I know, I know, books don't have SAN rolls. And that is a problem. But it surely wouldn't be much of a kludge to add them. Normal, healthy, well-adjusted members of our society (of any culture)tend to pass their SAN checks more often than not, which is to say that they don't "get" it - they come out of the theater going "wait, she was going to marry her brother? Dude, that's nasty!" But the messed-up types come out of the theater going "the horror... the horror..." or never come out at all. >YHO is correct. TKiY was an attempt to express the awfulness of the Vibe in >French (or English, depending on which story you read). It probably >wouldn't work today on 99% of its readers--although, oddly enough, I think >it would more strongly affect someone like Yukio Mishima than a typical >Parisian high schooler. I mean, Mishima was the kind of guy who could get >obsessed about a painting of a Catholic martyr getting shot full of arrows. >He would have grooved on that Hastur Vibe. In fact, maybe he was, when he >sliced his belly >open. Which goes to show that the Vibe can be a cross-cultural phenomenon. In fact, it's probably doubly weird to get that awful, lonely, haunting vibe out of a book/performance which makes no sense whatsoever to you rationally. The play is both a desperate attempt to express the Meme and a vector for spreading the meme - but the two aren't necessarily linked. If memory serves, this has been addressed by someone (Price's foreword in the Hastur cycle? Karl Edward Wagner? sorry...) - the KiY is, to the average reader, just a cheeseball Victorian/Edwardian drama that has dated terribly. Even those who succumb recognize that it's hokey, but they just can't shake that ... feeling ... Even though the KiY is a book that "wouldn't really impress" your rational mind, and even though it has precisely no effect on most people, there are some people for whom it just slips past that barrier of "unimpressed" and goes right to the long-dormant Hastur part of the brain. It's a feature! -- James Holloway "And yet in the end, for all his pains, he only knows how to play a game." - Baldesar Castiglione, "The Book of the Courtier" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 5:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Beauty and the Mythos / The Vibe (long) ----- Original Message ----- From: David Farnell > You're onto something here. I'm still assuming that it's a hardware > thing--some races don't notice the Vibe, as they don't have the reception > equipment, same way we don't notice cosmic rays shooting through us. We > barely have the equipment, but it can become sensitized by the Hastur Meme. This will take a while. Please bear with me while I think this through. The one, prime, thing, that strikes me, is that the "King In Yellow", Hastur, or whatever you call it, is _beautiful_. And how often do we see beauty in the Mythos? Never. We see power, yes, knowledge, utterly alien to us. But beauty? This is very, very, strange, and, I suspect, it should alert us. The GOO are powerful, and power is intrinsically opposed to beauty. Beauty is, by its very nature, a matter of fine adjustment, exact attunement. It is an extremely arbitrary and local thing - you don't need to move to another planet to make it irrelevant, a simple change of culture will do. So. How and why does the "Hastur vibration" project such beauty? How does a "vibration" influence so large a part of the galaxy? ---- ****---- I have been thinking about this and searching for possible analogies in known GOO manifestations. Here is one. We have an account of the activities of the SHUB-NIGGURATH, available in ALIEN INTELLIGENCE, which recounts how this GOO was accompanied, in one case, by women of superhuman sexual beauty who appeared to cooperate with Her in dismembering males to harvest human genetic material. Now, it seems obvious that these were not truely human women, but rather puppet-entities generated by the GOO. This pattern of behaviour is hypothesised for SHUB-NIGGURATH: She emerges into reality; calls on part of Her near-infinite library of somatic pattern to construct a brain that will analyse the world She is in; and, using that brain, decides what species are best to harvest - and what tools of flesh are best to use - and then grows and commissions those tools. All in a very short period of time. But it is absurd to imagine that this GOO (or any other) has any special orientation to humanity. So we are forced to conclude that She can analyse all the aspects of sexual attraction in _any_ species and construct "lures" superior to the natural versions very quickly and automatically. (An apololgy, please. I speak of "decides", "analyse", "strategy" and such terms with reference to SHUB-NIGGURATH. Obviously these are only loose analogies at best. This GOO probably has no "intelligence", properly understood: She has nothing but a ravening desire to cram all Form back into Her womb. But She can _generate_ and _use_ intelligence, growing and reabsorbing conscious minds of far greater size and power than human minds as casually as we would shed a skin cell, and with less compassion. Forgive me. It is necesary to use _some_ sort of language to describe a GOO. Science, Poetry or Madness, all are inadequate.) ----- **** ----- Now Sexual attraction is one aspect of what humanity calls "beauty". Suppose HASTUR is doing the same thing - but with the "beauty" that appeals to our minds and our aesthetic senses, not our balls? Suppose _this_ GOO is one that can generate a perfect understanding of _any_ intelligent species' aesthetic creations - of its entire, elaborated, mental world - and do so as quickly and easily and automatically and thoughtlessly as SHUB-NIGGURATH can bud off a brain that will analyse waist-to-hip ratios, and left-right symmetry (or scale patterns, or feather length and coloring, or . . . ) to tell Her what she needs to know? Agents are to some degree prepared to understand that the "lures" grown by the Magna Mater are fakes. Our cultural baggage makes us suspicious of _sexual_ ecstasy. However, we have a symmetric predudice in favout of _mental_ ecstasy. We are disposed to believe that the things of the mind are good, the things of the body evil. This is an error and weakness. We do not know _why_ HASTUR projects this mental net. We do not know what IT has to gain. Such reports as we have indicate that IT exists in a half-subjective world where ideas and feelings have as much "material" reality as steel has on our common plane. With the knowledge we have now, this defies analysis. However, one thing remains obvious. An effort like this, stretching across light years, is not done for trivial reasons. If HASTUR is sending messages across such distances IT expects to harvest something, mental world-stuff, consciousness, ideas, "qualia", to be melted down and remoulded into ITS own flesh. ----- ***** ----- I will try to explain by example. If you saw a woman more beautiful than the sun, walking towards you, smiling, - but coming from out of a place where no woman could live - - - you would at least have the sense to suspect _something_. But, when you hear the story of Lost Yhtill, of Cassilida, of The King In Yellow - where are your defences? Agents. The GOO do not play by our rules. On their scale there is _no_ difference between the lust of da Vinci to complete the Mona Lisa, and the lust of a cockroach for a crumb of bread. Armour yourselves. Fear Beauty. Fear Beauty, at least, when you meet it within the context of the Mythos. Fear Beauty - because when you meet Beauty, within the context of the Mythos, you have been acquired, ranged, and targeted. Fear Beauty - because when you meet Beauty within the context of the Mythos - - you have understood - and you have been understood. Fear - The King In Yellow. Some thoughts from Your Glove Cleaner Andy R From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 7:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: The Vibe From: > OK, I'm with you. Hardware is important in the development of the OS. But, > are you saying that brain (or whatever serves that function) *physical* > structure determines receptivity to the Vibe? > Because as much as I like the Vibe metaphor, I don't want to take the > metaphor too literally. At some point we should drop the EM spectrum metaphor > when it is no longer useful. Map and territory time. Well, it's just a metaphor. But I think it could indeed be that a physical structure in the brain is crucial--why not? True, HPL's stories allow for OBE, life-after-death (sometimes), that kind of thing, so the Mind can exist at least partly independent of the Flesh. Still, the physical structure and the OS are interlinked, obviously. We can't see without eyes and optic nerves. > Just making Aldebaran's presence in the sky significant breaks down any > broadcast metaphor using any Einsteinian model. Yes, it is instantaneuos transmission, isn't it? Still, I can't think of any better way to describe it than a broadcast signal. _Other_ ways to describe it, but not better ways, at least not for this discussion. > Having said that, I'm going to keep using the Vibe metaphor because it > describes TKiY propagation more often than not. > But, I'm seeing TKiY packets on the QUIP network. QUIP? > If you mean that physical structure determines the manner in which > information is organized\interpreted\stored\retrieved and therefore > determines the action\reaction of memes in the receiver, we're on the same > page. But if physical structure is important because some lobes make better > antennaes (which I don't think you were saying), I think we're driving on the > map. Actually, I was thinking of that as a possibility--my idea was that the artsy types (like young Wilcox from "The Call of Cthulhu") are more receptive to such mental "broadcasts," but whether this is a brain-structure/genetics thing, or that artsy folks are sensitized through their thought patterns, is left up in the air. I doubt my request for funding to perform brain surgery on artists (with salarymen for "controls") will be approved. Again, I think the most likely answer would be an interaction between hardware and software. And in the end, Mind and Body is a false dualism. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jesper Anderson [jesper@pobox.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 8:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 10:59:20AM +0900, David Farnell wrote: > > > Just making Aldebaran's presence in the sky significant breaks down any > > broadcast metaphor using any Einsteinian model. > > Yes, it is instantaneuos transmission, isn't it? Actually, if it was instantaneous it wouldn't follow the presence of Aldebaran in the sky. It will only do this if there is a broadcast at the speed of light. All according to Einsteinian models. :) Jesper -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:06 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe In a message dated 00-03-14 21:18:44 EST, you write: << > But, I'm seeing TKiY packets on the QUIP network. QUIP? >> QUantum Inseparability Principle. Sorry, I've used the term before a few times, but that might have been when you were on vacation. The basic premise is that everything is connected on the quantum level because everything came from the same Big Bang. So my trimmed toenails are still connected to me even when added to a voodoo doll on another continent, or that sort of thing. Any sufficiently advanced magick is indistinguishable from science. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: The Vibe (AND Shubby) In a message dated 00-03-14 21:18:44 EST, you write: << Actually, I was thinking of that as a possibility--my idea was that the artsy types (like young Wilcox from "The Call of Cthulhu") are more receptive to such mental "broadcasts," but whether this is a brain-structure/genetics thing, or that artsy folks are sensitized through their thought patterns, is left up in the air. I doubt my request for funding to perform brain surgery on artists (with salarymen for "controls") will be approved. >> When you consider that "artistic type" and "sensitive" were once polite euphemisms for homosexual, and the latest nature/nurture flaps over the "gay gene", maybe you are on to something.....not that there's anything wrong with that. Mark McFadden Never shit where you eat, and never piss off the nice waiter bringing your food. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:12 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Beauty and the Mythos / The Vibe (long) On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > We do not know _why_ HASTUR projects this mental net. You obviously have failed to read the Hastur chapter in DG:CD. Perhaps next paycheck... HASTUR isn't projecting anything. It simply *is* - like space/time, or dirt, or failure. The Vibe is not active and neither is our limited human perception of it. It's something beyond our comprehension. > However, one thing remains obvious. An effort like this, stretching across > light years, is not done for trivial reasons. If HASTUR is sending > messages across such distances IT expects to harvest something, mental > world-stuff, consciousness, ideas, "qualia", to be melted down and > remoulded into ITS own flesh. "Science is based on the irrational belief that because we cannot perceive reality all at once, things called \"time\" and \"cause and effect\" exist. -- Dogbert" The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:36 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, David Farnell wrote: > Well, it's just a metaphor. But I think it could indeed be that a physical > structure in the brain is crucial--why not? True, HPL's stories allow for > OBE, life-after-death (sometimes), that kind of thing, so the Mind can exist > at least partly independent of the Flesh. Do you mean to imply that there are no ghosts in Carcosa? Please elaborate. Now. > Still, the physical structure and the OS are interlinked, obviously. We > can't see without eyes and optic nerves. Most of the time, but Psychics and Ghosts are certainly exceptions. The blind Clairvoyant sounds like a Kewl character. > > Just making Aldebaran's presence in the sky significant breaks down any > > broadcast metaphor using any Einsteinian model. > > Yes, it is instantaneuos transmission, isn't it? Still, I can't think of any > better way to describe it than a broadcast signal. A perception model. You see it/feel it and get the nasty. And Lizardking? is wrong. Just because Aldebaran is required doesn't exclude Einstien. The light from that star is arriving in a very Einsteinian way as far as I can tell. Byakhee and HASTUR aside. > Actually, I was thinking of that as a possibility--my idea was that the > artsy types (like young Wilcox from "The Call of Cthulhu") are more > receptive to such mental "broadcasts," but whether this is a > brain-structure/genetics thing, or that artsy folks are sensitized through > their thought patterns, Maybe it's that their thinking isn't straight-jacketed which leaves them more open to all that nasty. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thanks, and short review of a novel... On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Jean-Loup Sabatier wrote: > Thanks for your reception. :) Ken, is this a local custom to > write down our own stats as an NPC ? :) Personal stats adapted > to DG ? Or imaginary stats of a character ? Make YOURSELF. I know that your lameness knows no bounds and you come from a nation of snaileaters, but just suck it up and provide a accurate description of your pathetic self. Try not to leave out the Coprophagia 62% quirk skill. The MIB know everything, absolutely *everything*. It's a fact! > C U > :-) F U The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 8:21 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: The Vibrating Hune From: The Man in Black > The internal organ of the Byakhee most affected by Hastur has got to be > the Hune. C'mon Dave, that one was so obvious. It was, but I didn't want to cloud the issue with introducing more musings on that curious organ. Back in that Byakhee Thread, someone (Davide, Mark, or me, I think) came up with the idea that the hune is a receiver/transmitter for deep-space signals, as well as an engine for interstellar flight. The otherwise-useless (in space) wings act as antennae. Dave likes his phlogiston *extra*-crunchy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 8:32 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: First posting From: Jean-Loup Sabatier > I just joined this list, and would like to introduce myself. Welcome. You'll find we have a few of your countrymen on the list already. Please just ignore the occasional flare-ups of nationalistic bashing (for those who feel the urge, please go here: http://www.fadetoblack.com/bestcountry/). Unfortunately, we've just had a big discussion on handling large groups of players, and at the moment, the list HAS NO ARCHIVING SYSTEM (sound of teeth grinding). Anyway, if no one has told you yet, here is the URL for the Ice Cave, a most useful resource to anyone starting out (or continuing, for that matter) a DG game: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm Be seeing UUU, Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 9:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Beauty and the Mythos / The Vibe (long) From: Andy Robertson > The one, prime, thing, that strikes me, is that the "King In Yellow", > Hastur, or whatever you call it, is _beautiful_. > > And how often do we see beauty in the Mythos? Never. We see power, yes, > knowledge, utterly alien to us. But beauty? Excellent as usual, Mr. Robertson. We actually had a rather in-depth thread on this very subject once (long-enough ago that it should be in the Archives, and maybe even in the Ice Cave), but I believe you have added to it without even having read it. > (An apololgy, please. I speak of "decides", "analyse", "strategy" and such > terms with reference to SHUB-NIGGURATH. Obviously these are only loose > analogies at best. This GOO probably has no "intelligence", properly > understood: She has nothing but a ravening desire to cram all Form back > into Her womb. But She can _generate_ and _use_ intelligence, growing and > reabsorbing conscious minds of far greater size and power than human minds > as casually as we would shed a skin cell, and with less compassion. > > Forgive me. It is necesary to use _some_ sort of language to describe a > GOO. Science, Poetry or Madness, all are inadequate.) A point that cannot be made too often. It's a common failing that we humanize the GOO. > Suppose HASTUR is doing the same thing - but with the "beauty" that appeals > to our minds and our aesthetic senses, not our balls? > > Suppose _this_ GOO is one that can generate a perfect understanding of _any_ > intelligent species' aesthetic creations - of its entire, elaborated, > mental world - and do so as quickly and easily and automatically and > thoughtlessly as SHUB-NIGGURATH can bud off a brain that will analyse > waist-to-hip ratios, and left-right symmetry (or scale patterns, or feather > length and coloring, or . . . ) to tell Her what she needs to know? This is also something we've gotten into before (the big Avatar discussion). My only nit-pick is that I'm operating on the assumption that Hastur doesn't actually generate the Vibe--it IS the Vibe. In other words, Hastur might be fundamentally different from other GOO, in that it can't properly be defined as a being at all. To avoid getting too attached to the broadcast analogy, we could call the Vibe/Hastur a curdling of the ether, or something. > However, one thing remains obvious. An effort like this, stretching across > light years, is not done for trivial reasons. If HASTUR is sending > messages across such distances IT expects to harvest something, mental > world-stuff, consciousness, ideas, "qualia", to be melted down and > remoulded into ITS own flesh. Not necessarily. Hastur might be more like gravity--a cosmic force--than a life form. But i like the idea nonetheless. > But, when you hear the story of Lost Yhtill, of Cassilida, of The King In > Yellow - where are your defences? All agents should read lots of HPL, RW Chambers, and Karl Edward Wagner. > Fear Beauty - because when you meet Beauty, within the context of the > Mythos, you have been acquired, ranged, and targeted. > > Fear Beauty - because when you meet Beauty within the context > of the Mythos - > - you have understood > - and you have been understood. Well put. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:39 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: HPL's Vibe From: > In a message dated 3/13/00 4:24:55 PM, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: > > >but reading it last night, I absolutely > >loved it.) > I've never been a big fan of CooS either. But Lovecraft (and horror in > general) reads _so much better_ at night. I mean let's face it, dear Howie > Phil had a mediocre writing style (I wont even metion the spelling). You probably shouldn't, seeing as you misspelled "mention." ;-) Anyway, his spellings were often archaic, and so his "misspellings" were usually on purpose. Well, I don't like to get into pointless LitCrit discussions, but this actually has some relevance: HPL's style is sometimes not so great, true. However at his best, he is fantastic--but you must be in the right frame of mind to receive it! That was the point of my mentioning "The Colour out of Space"--I'd often just sped through it and taken it rather lightly in the past. I mean, the subject matter is somewhat lightweight compared to "The Call of Cthulhu" and "At the Mountains of Madness." But that evening I read it and _really_ paid attention to the words themselves. I let them carry me away and, oh, it was wonderful. There are very few prose writers who can do that, and at his best, HPL was a true master at it. Problem is, it's not what most people expect or are ready for. Without the right state of mind in the reader, it fails, and so the subject matter becomes the only attraction--the complex sentences feel like obstacles to the reader who is used to "easier" writers. But if you let yourself feel the rhythm, get into HPL's "vibe," he'll take you on a real ride. Reminds me a bit of my first exposure to Shakespeare--took a bit of getting used to, but once I'd learned his "language," I was hooked. I hear a lot of people say "Shakespeare is over-hyped--he's boring." I shake my head and think, "What fools these mortals be"--learn how to read him properly! (I mainly blame teachers for this--they teach him in the most boring manner imaginable and erect a wall between student and Shakespeare that takes massive effort to knock down.) ObDG? Well, it's just what the MiB said about how the average Joe who reads a Mythos tome isn't going to get much from it. You've got to bend your mind to _connect_ with the words. Dave Senor Sock says: "Read a book!" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 10:40 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: Re: DG: Mission to Mars From: > >except for Texans, we just can't make ourselves do that > Malevolent aliens. Texas is really part of Mexico anyway. Hah! The mighty Republic of Texas was once a hale 'n' hearty independent nation (for 9 years, anyway) and will be again! The Tex-Mex Vibe (which sounds like conjunto music and causes those males it affects to rename themselves "Bubba," talk very loudly, and eat rattlesnakes; females grow massive hairdos and wear skin-tight pants no matter how old they are), emanating from the present incarnation of Nyarlathotep (Faux-Texan Richboy Avatar, currently running for president) is the strength of our nation, and will lead us to victory, before it turns inward and forces us into decadence and self-destruction. In the last few years, we've received a large influx of California yuppies, but they are beginning to succumb. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel M Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Graeme Price wrote: > I believe this has been proposed on the DGML before (IIRC, it's the old > "Dan Harms memorial 'It's not real, it's only fiction' compound learned San > loss rule" - viz. no San loss until you spot incontrovertable proof that > the mythos is real (eg. spotting a Byakhee perched on your mailbox), and > then take the San losses from the tomes in one big lump sum... from the > Keeper's viewpoint, this rule is always good for a laugh: especially if the > player in question can rolepay thrashing around on the floor whilst > drooling and muttering incomprehensably!). What are you talking about with this "Dan Harms Memorial Ru- AAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHH! Actually, the original rule had Sanity given for succeeding Cthulhu Mythos checks. On my eventual playtest, however, I found that players with a 5% Cthulhu Mythos score have an annoying tendency not to succeed in their checks. So this fix might get it to work. Yrs., Daniel From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel M Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:18 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 Appelion@aol.com wrote: > But Lovecraft (and horror in > general) reads _so much better_ at night. I mean let's face it, > dear Howie Phil had a mediocre writing style (I wont even metion > the spelling). As the local HPL snob, I'd comment, but I think this speaks for itself. Yrs., Daniel Harms From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jesper Anderson [jesper@pobox.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Tue, Mar 14, 2000 at 10:06:11PM -0500, LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > > QUantum Inseparability Principle. Sorry, I've used the term before a > few times, but that might have been when you were on vacation. The > basic premise is that everything is connected on the quantum level > because everything came from the same Big Bang. You'll have to make a couple of backup reasons for this interconnectiveness as it appears some nasty scientists with a new telescope are starting to blow holes in the big bang theory. Of course, we'll see how well it holds up, but a backup plan is never a bad idea. I don't have the URL handy, but I'll see if I can recover it from the Big Bitbucket. Jesper -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thanks, and short review of a novel... In a message dated 3/14/00 10:47:13 PM Central Standard Time, mib@cyberspace.org tries to make the new guy feel at home: << Try not to leave out the Coprophagia 62% quirk skill. The MIB know everything, absolutely *everything*. It's a fact! >> Coprophagia> I thought the new guy was from France, not Berlin. Ken