From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: SV: Re: Russian Defections At 06:03 PM 3/16/00 EST, you wrote: > I never managed to plow my way through all of the Mitrokhin Archive, but it certainly had extensive pieces of Russian agents, so it may be of use. Sadly, I don't have the ISBN to hand but will seek it out if you like. JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:23 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Thermobaric weapons Sounds good, eh? Well, it's just the thing for dealing with pesky ghoul warrens. From the excellent MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) site - a short article on the Russian RPO-A `Shmel'. A combination rocket-launcher/flamethrower, it uses similar technology to that favourite of DG-agents everywhere - FAE. Apparently, the Afghans called this things Satan Sticks because they were so effective. I read recently they had also been very effective in Grozney. I'm sure any self-respecting cell would have no problems getting their hands on one. Or a crate of 12... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Map source This is a pretty good source for those of us who don't really know squat about the city's of the You-nighted States... could the Pagan guys head to the West Seattle Rec centre and wave so we can get a group pic? Cheers... Satellite imagery of major US cities... http://www.city-scenes.com/index_Seattle.html From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: More Cookbook stuff? Bees... yes, bees... trained to look for landmines. That can't be normal, can it? Especially when you look what they did with bees in the X-Files! http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/bees/ JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:43 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: New from HK Thought this might be of interest to gun-fondlers on the list. Heckler and Koch have produced a replacement for the venerable MP5k... Any agents interested in pistol-sized fuill-auto mayhem should check out: http://www.unsuave.com/~hkpro/home.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Wormhole generator On 16 March 2000 AD, Jonathan Turner had this to say about the Modified Tesla Lightning Machine -- er, Wormhole Generator: >If you had really built this, wouldn't your SAN be too blasted to worry >about legal dibs? Wouldn't you just be waiting for a thunderstorm and >cackling a lot? Well, I'm not sure you would _have_ to be nuts to build the device, but it would sure help!:) Normally, before building such a machine, you would need to obtain the following equipment: An Old Castle on a mountaintop (or, alternatively, a new castle on a mountaintop, specially built to look old and decrepit). Not only is _atmosphere_ (in the scenic and meteorological senses) important to an experiment such as this one, but the fortified nature of the castle can prove surprisingly useful when the citizens of the nearby village (there is _always_ a nearby village) learn of your work, and send a committee of representatives (with their own handheld illumination sources) to your address to make known their displeasure... Electronic and computer equipment for your lab (Irwin Allen Industries has some available from the same stocks they used for the SEAVIEW, the JUPITER II, and the Time Tunnel; it has the requisite Large Tape Drives, Meaningless CRT Displays, and especially Large Quantities of Unlabeled Blinking Lights!) Note that this equipment is far less expensive than you might think, due to its complete lack of fuses, circuit breakers, and surge arrestors; keep a fire extinguisher handy... Two Large Metal Spheres for lightning to jump between at a dramatic moment... A Large Insulated Metal Switch suitable for wall mounting... A White Lab Coat (If you are a Mad Scientist, you should look the part! You also appear significantly more professional when CNN covers your demo...) One pair Dark Goggles (the new rapid-polarizing type are best, although earlier types, such as those used in observing nuclear explosions, will do) for all personnel who will be in the lab when you throw the above Large Insulated Metal Switch... An Assistant (traditionally addressed as "Igor" -- it is unknown whether this is a name, nickname, or job title...) By tradition, this assistant has been a hunchback (likely a Notre Dame grad student on an athletic scholarship), although current affirmative action policies now permit employment of non-hunchbacks as Igors... A Grant from a large Corporation, or the appropriate (US, UK, French, Transylvanian, etc.) National Government. (You didn't think this equipment was free, did you? And the electric bill you'll be running up is something best handled by a Megacorp or National budget!) A large supply of Pyrex (tm) laboratory glassware is suggested, even though this is a _physics_, rather than a _chemistry_, experiment. Besides adding a welcome ambiance to the laboratory, it is useful for preparing coffee or tea. However, this glassware -- and other items, such as radiation shielding, Life Insurance, Fire Insurance, a Beautiful Daughter (somehow, nobody ever seems to care about any other relatives of a Mad Scientist), etc. -- is purely optional... Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "Hahahahaha! They said I couldn't do it! They said I was crazy! They were right!" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 6:03 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Wormhole generator At 06:45 PM 3/16/00 EST, you wrote: > Electronic and computer equipment for your lab (Irwin Allen Industries >has some available from the same stocks they used for the SEAVIEW, the >JUPITER II, and the Time Tunnel; it has the requisite Large Tape Drives, >Meaningless CRT Displays, and especially Large Quantities of Unlabeled >Blinking Lights!) LOL Personally, I prefer the Blake's Seven style rickety cardboard box with train set lights glued to it... I always find that I get most interference not from enraged villagers, but from the third cousin of that pesky investigator who broke into the castle and got wolfed down by the shoggoth - but not before mailing a worried letter to his fatally-curious relative. You know, the worrying thing is I think you had this prepared, ready for use... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of PaganArt@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 6:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? In a message dated 3/16/00 2:26:36 PM, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: << Later, he disconnected the Pagan fax line and set it to downloading tentacle sex hentai in the evenings in lieu of accepting fax orders. Mark McFadden >> Hrrmmph. You're thinking of Scott Glancy... -Dennis "I did as I was ordered" Detwiller. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Adam Weishaupt [illuminati_13@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:12 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mission to Mars (with question) >From: "Frank Frey (SOK)" >Reply-To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >Subject: Re: DG: Mission to Mars >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:28:27 -0500 (EST) > >Greetings, > >Amen to "this movie sucks". I went to a free advanced screening and I got >what I paid for. > >The technical gaffs wouldn't have been so if the script had been decent >which it was not. This was one of the most derivative, ineptly written >pieces of CGI junkfood that has ever been put on the big screen. > >We should perhaps be glad that Hollywood doesn't seem interested in making >a Cthulhu Mythos again. I mean one "Dunnwich Horror" was quite enough. I actually thought Mission to Mars was fairly entertaining for what it was, right up until the end (which really, really pissed me off). I knew I wouldn't get my wish, but I was hoping and preying for mi-go or elder gods or Hastur or something, not that lame E.T. ALIENS ARE FRIENDLY shit they seem to put into every movie. The last good evil aliens movie was ALIENS (198?) by James Cameron. Illuminati_13 "I am Homer of BORG . . . Mmmm, donuts!" P.S. Just as a question, what H.P. Lovecraft stories would you guys be interested in seeing as movies, and who would you want to direct them? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:51 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Something new... On 16 March, 2000 AD, "Andy Robertson" had this to say about a reported item of Russian naval ordnance: >A question for you, specialist. > >About six years ago I was chatting to an American guy who worked for >JANE's. > >He told me about a Russian torpedo which, he claimed, could reach 120 >knots. >"It's only in experimental stages and nowadays they only have the resources >to build about three". > >When I expressed wonder, he said (IIRC) that the torpedo lubricated itself >through the water on a cushion of air bubbles. He also added that the >Russians were tops in certian types of weapon systems because "they are >comparatively poor and they don't have good computers, so they are forced >to >_think_ a lot". (he said it, not me) > >The torpedo - total nonsense, or what? Maybe... Maybe not! This fish may sound like something from a Michael DiMercurio novel, but it may actually exist! There is a listing in the 1999-2000 Edition of Jane's Fighting Ships (p. 556) under "Torpedoes" in the Russian Navy section, for a weapon called the Shkval (Russian for "Squall", IIRC). The weapon has a diameter of 53cm (one of the standard diameters for Russian submarine torpedo tubes (the other being 65 cm), equivalent to the 533mm (21 inch) tubes on US and UK submarines). Length is 8 meters, which puts it in the same general size range as many more conventional antiship torpedoes. It is apparently effective versus both submarines and surface ships. It is gyro-guided (apparently much like the torpedoes familiar to us from the WWII movies), but the designers apparently felt that such a system couldn't be distracted by decoys, and besides, at a speed of 200 knots (no typo -- that is 200 knots), the target will have little time for evasive maneuvers... It is reportedly boosted to this speed by rocket propulsion (but, unlike the USN's old SUBROC, remains underwater rather than flying through the air to splash down near the target). Range is 10 km, which means I'm not sure I'd want to be aboard the firing vessel, as the warhead is listed as "Nuclear"! (This sounds a little like the USN's old Mk-45 ASTOR nuclear torpedo -- since withdrawn from service -- which was rumored to have a Kill Probability of 2.0 (Target vessel _and_ firing vessel)!) It undoubtedly employs a decent run-to-enable before the warhead can arm, but still, the blast effects will be considerable, even 10 km away... As far as the air-bubble lubrication, this sounds like it might be possible... It would be noisy, but, when the rocket engine lights off, they'll hear this beast clear back in Pearl Harbor and Vladivostok, anyway! The time-frame sounds about right, too... IIRC, there was something of a flap in Jane's Defence Weekly in mid-1995 concerning this "super torpedo", and a Russian source stated that it had actually been introduced a couple of years before, and was just now being publicized. It's very possible only three were built before the Russian Government decided to quit paying the engineers, but, if the Special K get hold of these things... Watch out! Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joab Ben Stieglitz [stieg@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: Book Recommendation Pretty nasty reviews of this on at Amazon. Of course most of them appear to have come from neo-fasicsts... -----Original Message----- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com [mailto:owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com]On Behalf Of Frank Frey (SOK) Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:50 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Book Recommendation Greetings, With all of this talk about DG WWII ops, I would like to recommend a book that I've found to be most useful: "The Occult Roots of Nazism" by Nicholas Goodricke-Clark. I believe it's from New York University Press. Anyway, it's an excellent history of the Ariosophical Movement from its beginnings in the 1870's to WWII (when many of its followers were imprisoned by the Nazis). The style is emminently readable and the information is solid and well documented. I might add that the author is an Oxford Don. Anyway, it is well worth the price. Frank Frey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- "The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad!" Salvador Dali ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 8:35 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: More Cookbook stuff? >Bees... yes, bees... trained to look for landmines. That can't be normal, >can it? Sounds reasonable to me. Now getting _bacteria_ to look for explosives, that's not normal... (RW: I had a friend whose PhD was indirectly funded by the MoD. His project involved developing a portable gas chromatography kit that would pick up the specific trace chemicals produced by soil bacteria breaking down Semtex. The idea being that buried arms caches would come into contact with the appropriate bugs and start producing a unique volatile chemical fingerprint. Don't laugh - it apparently worked fine in the lab!) Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steven Kaye [box_nine@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: SV: Re: Russian Defections At 11:19 PM +0000 3/16/00, Jonathan Turner wrote: >At 06:03 PM 3/16/00 EST, you wrote: > > >I never managed to plow my way through all of the Mitrokhin Archive, but it >certainly had extensive pieces of Russian agents, so it may be of use. >Sadly, I don't have the ISBN to hand but will seek it out if you like. Doesn't look to have anything on defectors in the 1980's and 1990's, from a quick look-through. ISBN for the hardback's 0-465-00310-9. Steven ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.netcom.com Reason - rationality - is a concentration camp, where the sets of concepts for surviving in a chaotic universe form vast, though finite, rows of huts, separated into blocks by electric fences, which the searchlights of Attention rove over, picking out now one group of huts, now another. Thoughts, like prisoners - imprisoned for their own security and safety - scurry and march and labour in a flat two-dimensional zone, forbidden to leap fences, gunned down by laser beams of madness and unreason if they try to. Ian Watson, THE EMBEDDING From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: More Cookbook stuff? In a message dated 00-03-16 21:36:01 EST, you write: << >Bees... yes, bees... trained to look for landmines. That can't be normal, >can it? Sounds reasonable to me. Now getting _bacteria_ to look for explosives, that's not normal... ( >> Which reminds me. An excellent book chock full of tradecraft, "Spooker" by Dean Ing. One element of the story included some experimenting with a instrument that utilized an actual insect antennae in the circuit as a pheromone detector/quantifier. But don't check it out for insect powered detectors, it's about a "retired" spy that preys on other spys for a living. Basically, he follows likely suspects until he has some good recon on an agent. An agent can be an industrial spy, a mole, a foreign agent, or LEO in deep cover. Doesn't matter, they all have an escape plan that includes a "spooker" (a private Green Box with cash and ID) in case they have to leave in their socks as Smiley's People would put it. Scare the agent into thinking they've been discovered (or better yet, betrayed) so they make a break for the spooker. Kill them, take the money. Repeat until independently wealthy. Good stuff, with some lovely pointers on tailing a suspect and other tradecraft basics. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thanks, and short review of a novel... From: Davide Mana > Hopefully - as I'm taking my vacations from work on monday - I'll have more > time to finally do my duty to Delta Green (or die trying). > > Sorry for the inconvenience, but it's been a hell of a six months. Take care of your exams, soon-to-be-Dr. Mana--we can wait. :-) Besides, you've done so much for the Cause already. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? From: > Yes Dave, Machinations of the Mi-Go will be reprinted shortly, in a new > format, with a color cover and a 21,000 word scenario along with it. Oh well--it means I'll have a birthday present (my old Machinations of the Mi-Go) for my old Keeper back in Texas. Now there's an idea for those of you who don't want to shell out the bucks for the new MotMG: give your old one to friends and get them addicted to Pagan Products. Dave (the Super one) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: T-Shirt (was Re: DG: The DELTA GREEN FAQ~!) From: Robert Thomas > Q: What's this DGML shirt all about and how can I get one? > > A: It's a shirt designed by list members for list members which has > got to the stage where the people organizing it are just waiting for > one thing the money of the people who wanted one. Well, I guess we've given up trying to hide it from the MiB--sorry, MiBster, we've been keeping it a secret because were planning to send you one as a get-well present way back when you were in the hospital. > Q: What is going on then? > > A: Well so far the nice people at Pagan have 25 orders (ie credit > card details) and I had approximately 70 expressions of interest > and e-mail addresses which made the shirt producable at the costs > mentioned so things may well change unless more people do the > decent thing anyway. Right, then--To those who said they wanted one but haven't yet called in the credit card numbers: Pay up, maggots! I've been waiting long enough! I want my damn T-shirt! Now, since we know that's only going to get maybe one or two people to do their duty, perhaps we can make up the difference by appealing to the dozens of new list members to take a look at the artwork and the price (it's on the DG website somewhere--Rob, can you post the URL?) and consider buying one of these EXTREMELY limited run collectable T-shirts, just the thing to wear to conventions, perfect for that Green Box off-list meeting, etc.. Dave "Let's meet at Joe's...how will I know you?" "I'll be wearing my DGML T-Shirt." "Oooo." From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: DGML Advisory From: Shane Ivey > I have begun a daily project to maintain DGML archives at Delta-Green.com. > Be warned, the archives from July 1999 to the present are incomplete, but > future archives should include all messages sent to the list. New archive > files will be added once or twice a day. Shane, you're a prince. Thank you. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:26 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: Re: The Merits of Derleth From: > Another good use for the ideas that Derleth and his followers is that of > disinformation, regardless of your opinion of his works. For this, once again I recommend A Guide to the Cthulhu Cult, available from Pagan. It is, quite simply, a tome that the players can find, full of a rather Derlethian take on the Mythos. Makes a great prop, and excellent for disinformation. Give it a minor SAN loss and Mythos bonus, maybe 1/1d4 SAN and +4% Mythos. >Benevolent cults or individuals could have sprung up worshipping > these entities in the hope that the universe has some meaning to it and there > is something out there looking over us. In reality, they don't exist or > worse, are another face of our old GOOs/OGs. Derelth (and others) provide a > blueprint of how humans would want to view a Lovecraftian universe. Absolutely. Hope springs eternal in the human mind; it is our species' insanity. You could even say that 0 SAN equals the extinguishment of hope. And resident Glove Cleaner Andy Robertson wrote: > Makes me wonder - are we deceived? I mean, could things in reality be even > _worse_ than we think they are? Depends on how bad you think things are, I suppose, but things usually are worse--we're such an optimistic species. Optimism is of course a survival trait for us. As the stories have pointed out again and again, knowing our odds tends to drive us mad/give up hope. Another reason A-Cell doesn't want us reading those tomes. And I've always operated on the assumption that even the worst of the tomes (the Al-Azif and the like) barely scratch the surface of the truth (even Alhazred insisted that no shoggoths were ever brought to Earth--there's optimism for you). So think of it this way--Whatever will happen to us is probably much worse than: 1) Being enslaved by alien deities, 2) Species extinction, 3) No afterlife, 4) An afterlife of eternal horror, 5) Destruction of the Earth, 6) Living in a universe where we are tiny defenseless fish in an ocean of very hungry sharks, Or any other of the depressing themes of Lovecraftiana. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Juneau [djuneau@io.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 00-03-16 13:52:37 EST, you write: > In an interview for Soulless Corporate Life, the infamous bloated plutocrat > Dennis Detwiller stopped fondling his obscenely large pinkie ring and took > his Churchill-sized cigar away from his mouth long enough to say "We're > working on a line of Delta Green collectors cards.and action figures, that'll > keep the shee... fans busy." Yah, remember that Weebles of the Coast is just down the street from stately Pagan Manor... Don, eagerly awaiting the DELTA GREEN Saturday morning cartoon series on Fox... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:36 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Wormhole generator Michael wrote > Normally, before building such a machine, you would need to obtain the >following equipment: [snip] C'mon. This is _so_ low tech. These days we Insane Researchers (Mad Scientists is so passe) can get by with a couple of PCR machines, a centrifuge or two, an automated DNA sequencer, and some Quick-Fit glassware (it comes in more shapes than the Pyrex). Bung in a couple of dozen common household chemicals, a refrigerator, some dry ice and a few squeaking animals, and you get the basis for an NIH grant application. Once the grant is approved you can hire a couple of dozen postdocs and grad students (more likely to be called "Chen" than "Igor"), publish a few papers and apply for tenure. After that, it's institute funded trips to conferences and lecture tours all the way. You see, the modern scientist isn't concerned with global domination or building a better monster anymore, but is quite content with free lunches and leering at the co-ed's. OTOH, building an army of better co-ed's and conquering the world.... now there's a project that would make the NIH study section sit up and take notice! Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Matt Cowger [mcowger@kc.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 8:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? Maybe the real secret of DG is beyond Humorous Anecdotes except in the most morbid sense, beyond dog's heads.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Juneau To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 2:04 PM Subject: Re: DG: Books? > On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, James Holloway wrote: > > > >PS The dog's head in Dead Letter... I heard that little gem was based on a > > >real incident. Any truth in that? > > > > This unnerving incident is covered in the very earliest issues of TUO. When > > I encountered it in "Dead Letter," I literally whooped for joy. > > > > I'm sure someone more qualified than I can tell it in greater detail. > > It's enough of a legend that it should be written up (with the pictures, > damnit!) on the PaganPub website; Steve Jackson Games has the Secret > Service Debacle on theirs, why not a nice, family-oriented severed dog > head story? > > Don > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:32 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons In a message dated 3/16/00 5:22:25 PM Central Standard Time, j.turner@irishnews.com writes: << From the excellent MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) site >> WHAT excellent MOUT site? Or did I just overlook the www address? -Ken- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 11:50 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Club Dumas On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Matt Cowger wrote: > > As if the claws and fists of scale wasn't enough, I have to say that your > > review of Foucault's Pendulum was quite self-indulgent, poorly thought > > out, and contains no information on the book's merits or flaws > > Wow, oddly much like your blazing gun detraction. My what? A review about subjective quality needs to expound upon details. Otherwise, it becomes useless as a recommendation to others. If you write that Delta Green is bad because it involves Bug-Eyed-Monsters (TM), people who like BEMs might look into it. If you write that Delta Green is good because it involves lots of federal agencies, then folks who dislike any hint of that sort of technothriller stuff will be warned away. But if you only say Delta Green sucks, then your recommendation is completely worthless. When you give your opinion in context of a judgement tool for others, the rationale for that opinion is absolutely necessary. ObDG: Stop posting off topic. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:03 AM To: Delta Green List Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Vibe On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, David Farnell wrote: > Er...huh? Where did you spot that implication? The implication of a ghostless Carcosa is here: > > On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, David Farnell wrote: > > > > > Well, it's just a metaphor. But I think it could indeed be that a > physical structure in the brain is crucial--why not? Assuming Carcosa is a manifestation of the Vibe, and ghosts aren't meat, and meat is necessary for Vibing, wouldn't this imply that ghosting in Carcosa is not possible? Of course the theory that ghosts are the remnant of the meat mind in the Vibe could make an end run around that play. > > > Still, the physical structure and the OS are interlinked, obviously. We > > > can't see without eyes and optic nerves. > > > > Most of the time, but Psychics and Ghosts are certainly exceptions. The > > blind Clairvoyant sounds like a Kewl character. > > Yes, but are they actually "seeing" in the same sense that we do? It could > be something more like sonar/radar, astral waves bouncing off and through > objects. I admit I'm a bit weak in gobbledygook theory in this area--I'm > more into the UFO side of paranormal theorizing. All I know is that blindness is a -50 point disadvantage in GURPS Psionics , Clairvoyance costs three points per power level, and buying them together negates the physical blindness. I'm sure remote viewing is all quantum in nature anyway. That's all anyone needs to know. > > Maybe it's that their thinking isn't straight-jacketed which leaves them > > more open to all that nasty. > > Yeah, their thought patterns. That's what I said--I didn't say which > thought-patterns. No you dummy, thought patterns connote order and regularity. Creative thinkers think outside the box, without a limiting "pattern" imposing a set of rules on the mind. The Man in Black is : neither in or out of the box. He *is* the box. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Sorisio [macros@twd.net] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons The MOUT Site: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6453/ Though I cannot find the exact article referred to. cs On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/16/00 5:22:25 PM Central Standard Time, > j.turner@irishnews.com writes: > > << From the excellent MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) > site >> > WHAT excellent MOUT site? Or did I just overlook the www address? > -Ken- > > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Club Dumas (Davide Mana's reply) On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, REFLECTING SKIN wrote: > what I am wondering is if YOU the READER would prefer the page to be written > as a "real" DG resource, or as a regular gaming page. What do you mean "real?" I can imagine a lot more suck than I can kewl. > I'm also working on a > Charnel Dreams faux fan site and a page for Phenomena-X... These sound excellent. But here's a brilliant idea: why don't you just post your current work? What are you, dumb? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:46 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Michael Layne wrote: > On 15 March 2000 AD, Napoleon48@aol.com says: > > >I know about the 3rd Eyes Only, sounds really cool. > > "3rd Eyes Only"? Is this some special Anti-Shan Classification Code?:) Delta Green Eyes Only Vol. 3 : PROJECT RAINBOW. But you already knew that you big silly. > ...who is glad to hear that the extraterrestrial mutant Grey squirrel > invasion can probably be dealt with by the Zombie Gerbil Army, rather than > by a B-2 armed with thermonuclear weapons! (And if the Gerbils don't work, > send in the Fighting Hamsters!!):) That's the Zombie Horde. The Gerbil Zombie Horde (TM). If undead rodents don't work (the MIB don't "do" hamsters) we'll show no hesitation in unleashing all the tribbles, and damn the Klingon Genocide! The Man in Black is : wondering where the quadrotriticale went. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "BUZZ~!, wasn't this full of grain before?" - me http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:50 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 PaganArt@aol.com wrote: > Black Cod Island: An ancient Deep One colony located in southern Alaska > still survives today, despite an attempt by the Haida indians of the > northwest to stomp out the alien threat in the 1730's. How much will this have to do with the oil industry? I bet Mcfadden could call Steven Segal if you want :) The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? In a message dated 3/16/00 8:02:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, djuneau@io.com writes: << Don, eagerly awaiting the DELTA GREEN Saturday morning cartoon series on Fox... >> Well, Agent Tynes is dabbling to good effect with the screenplay form, the iambic pentameter of the new millenium. OK, having fun and without wandering OT or dissing anyone's tastes, in addition to noodling with dream casts and crews of HPL stories, how would you cast DG: The Movie? Big bucks studio version? Big buzz at Sundance indie version? TV series? Voices for the Saturday morning cartoon? Dream artist for Dark Horse comic series? Personally, I fantasize sitting with the 'bots and MSTing the movie after showing off my new Azathoth-powered Wormhole Walkman for the invention exchange. How was that sirs? Mark McFadden Who has dibs on Dennis Miller as The Lizard King. Although a younger longhaired Richard Dreyfus would be closer. Just as the androgynous EdDrWho must bear the burden of of his Leonine resemblance, I got a lot of ribbing when The Goodbye Girl came out. The lead character's name was Paula McFadden, and it must have started a chain of associations because everyone kept telling me about this movie with that Jaws and Close Encounters guy who looked pretty much like me and played a character who had my mannerisms and speech patterns. The "I sleep IN the nude. Buffo!" rant (the Oscar clip) was usually cited, with hand gestures. When I saw the film for myself I was chagrined to find that I could see what they were talking about. Kinda Vibish when I think about it, sitting in a theater and watching someone imitate me. Has anyone else had a similar experience? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Something new... In a message dated 3/16/00 2:29:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << When I expressed wonder, he said (IIRC) that the torpedo lubricated itself through the water on a cushion of air bubbles. He also added that the Russians were tops in certian types of weapon systems because "they are comparatively poor and they don't have good computers, so they are forced to _think_ a lot". (he said it, not me) The torpedo - total nonsense, or what? >> I'm years out of date and my resources are not at hand, but the Soviets were doing some envelope testing with boundary layer control and surface effect vehicles. They had a heavy-lifting surface effect "aircraft" that could carry insane cargoes skimming over calm seas (or similar surfaces) at high speeds. There is something to be said about pre- and early CAD engineering and the increasingly rare mental reflexes it required. In a (IIRC) Popular Science article about the famous Skunk Works, they discussed the evolution of stealth aircraft. The equations that allowed you to calculate the radar signature of shapes and materials came from relatively obscure published Russian research. The reason the F-117 is composed of a complex arrangement of flat surfaces is due to the limitations of CAD at the time. The sexy curves of the B-2 are a direct result of the improvements of American CAD, the Russian equations remain sufficient. Mark McFadden also, you can take out US trail sensors by wizzin' on 'em. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:59 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Beauty and the Mythos / The Vibe (long) On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Michael S Beck wrote: > Keep in mind that all our theories assume that these are beings with > independent existences. You haven't read COUNTDOWN yet have you? Their variant HASTUR chapter specifically states HASTUR is a surreal force of entropy rather than a discrete entity. Also, the next time you post, you must trim the reply unless it has something to do with whatever idiocy you have decided to vomit forth. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:12 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Merits of Derleth On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 USFORREC1@aol.com wrote: > idea of tying certain GOOs/OGs to elements (Cthulhu-Water, etc.) could be the Not just bottled water, Cthulhu-Water is a bottled thirst quencher with all natural Pacific health additives. So if you want that greenish refreshment which never dies, try Cthulhu-Water. Good throughout strange aeons, offer valid in all non-angular dimensions - Soooorrry Tindalos! The Man in Black is : selling Cthulhu pee. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:16 AM To: Agents and Case Officers Subject: Re: DG: DGML Advisory On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Shane Ivey wrote: > I have begun a daily project to maintain DGML archives at Delta-Green.com. > Be warned, the archives from July 1999 to the present are incomplete, but > future archives should include all messages sent to the list. New archive > files will be added once or twice a day. Ah, starting that candidacy process for sainthood, or just had your loved ones under clear and present danger. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 PaganArt@aol.com wrote: > >From now on all the Eyes only volumes which contain source material (as > opposed to just NPCs) will have a scenario in them. Kewl, will the NPC's have a paragraph or three of story seeds? The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:38 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Club Eco / reading out loud /The Night Land On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > Hodgson was a far worse stylist than Lovecraft, but I think that Lovecraft, > too, benefits from a more leisurely, more "oral", reading style. Like > others on this thread I find that if you actually try to _hear_ the words as > you read them they sound much better. The style you refer to is called "phonics" or "phonetics" and is the current trend in reading edumacation. I was lucky, my dad had lots of linguistic superiors in the USAF, he inherited some phonics stuff from one of them and put them to good use. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:33 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Something new... On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: > I know nothing about the torp, but that little remark reminds me of the > story, or myth, about the Americans spending thousands on researching a pen > that astronauts could write with in zero-G. We all the remember the ads, > right? It writes upside down, etc? > > The Russians used pencils... But yet another layer of the onion can be peeled back: the Zero-G pen was merely a cute NASA press release. The technology of microfluid dynamics in microgravity has applications well beyond that of putting ink to paper. Most obvious would be keeping gas bubbles from accumulating in the liquid fuel injection pumps, but I'm sure engineers could think of all sorts of applications. This is how that 100mph Carburator got made. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: The Merits of Derleth On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Andy Robertson wrote: > That is a very sharp point indeed. > > Makes me wonder - are we deceived? I mean, could things in reality be even > _worse_ than we think they are? Perception is a sliding scale into infinity. Things can always, *always* get worse. But on the flip side, there is always room for improvement. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 2:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Wormhole generator On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Michael Layne wrote: > Normally, before building such a machine, you would need to obtain the > following equipment: > > An Old Castle on a mountaintop (or, alternatively, a new castle on a > mountaintop, specially built to look old and decrepit). [SCIENCE~! REDACTED] Your real estate agent is a chittering drone devoid of imagination. Paradigma's "labORRatories of the world" special issue shows that the "Spooky Castle," while still the traditional base of operations, is getting a little obsolete and attract the surveillance of certain regulatory agencies. There are several general trends that make themselves fashionable: 1. Basement : this might seem pathetic at first, but just think, that kid from Sliders built his magnum opus in the basement. Now, I don't think anyone would doubt the highly animated nature of Dexter's Laboratory, sibling sabotage aside. Finally, the convienence and low cost make basements attractive, if kooky. 2. High School or University Lab : Why spend your own money? 3. Secret Bases : these large scale operations require the patronage of vast criminal conspiracies like S.P.E.C.T.R.E., HYDRA, AIM, and McDonalds. Think of the possibilities when you can make elaborate speeches of exposition about the Hypnotron II in say; the Secret Volcano Base of TEUFELHAUS, or as you reveal all your villainous plans with a reasonably priced standard made hamburger available to all. The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 2:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Wormhole generator On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Graeme Price wrote: > You see, the modern scientist isn't concerned with global domination or > building a better monster anymore, but is quite content with free lunches > and leering at the co-ed's. Somehow, I find your research into anal-gerbil interaction and the increasingly large size of your genetically engineered gerbils to belie your refutation of non-global domination. Any reasonable observer can tell that you have co-opted the COLON COLONIZATION~! scheme so recently halted. The Man in Black is : hoping those gerbils use protection. Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of The Man in Black [mib@cyberspace.org] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 2:24 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > OK, having fun and without wandering OT or dissing anyone's tastes, in > addition to noodling with dream casts and crews of HPL stories, how would you > cast DG: The Movie? Big bucks studio version? Big buzz at Sundance indie > version? TV series? Voices for the Saturday morning cartoon? Dream artist for > Dark Horse comic series? I would prefer to discuss the means and motives behind casting actors. This could become a very useful tool in role-playing, as an awkward or belated description could be replaced by a simple shortcut of saying: "James Woods in Contact is Justin Kroft." We'd have to be careful of overdoing this, or every scenario would become an opportunity to read Entertainment Weekly. We should also discuss casting strategies, like hiring character actors, casting against type, and the difference between established and rising stars. > Kinda Vibish when I think about it, sitting in a theater and watching > someone imitate me. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Well, there was this one movie... The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Novus Ordo Seclorum : Annuit Coeptus : E Pluribus Unum "Don't make me take off my sunglasses!" - Griss, Bringing Out the Dead http://www.carnwyffa.u-net.com [EMERALD HAMMER] From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 3:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Books? In a message dated 3/17/00 12:25:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, mib@cyberspace.org writes: << I would prefer to discuss the means and motives behind casting actors. This could become a very useful tool in role-playing, as an awkward or belated description could be replaced by a simple shortcut of saying: "James Woods in Contact is Justin Kroft." We'd have to be careful of overdoing this, or every scenario would become an opportunity to read Entertainment Weekly. >> In addition, I was always fascinated by the mental mechanisms involved in recognizing celebrities. Gibson mentions an identification system in Virtual Light that tells you what celebrity someone looks like to aid in spotting them from a description. Like, "Tommy Lee Jones with blonde hair." My friends and I used to play a game at the Universal Studios tour, we'd spot mundanes going about their business and would get excited and start pointing at some bespectacled bearded guy in a ballcap with a passing resemblance and yell "Omigawd! It's STEVEN SPIELBERG!!!" and then count the shutters clicking. When being too-hip-for-the-room I would point at random males and shriek "Holey moley! It's TERRENCE MALICK!", because, like, who would know the difference? I gave an out-of-state visitor a magical mystery tour at the Glendale Galleria by constantly whispering things like "Don't stare! That's Kevin Spacey at the Orange Julius" which embued some anonymous shoppers every action with wonder and fond memories. Mark McFadden Don't look at me like that, you thought Roberto Begnini was charming when he did it. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 4:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: > Sounds good, eh? Well, it's just the thing for dealing with pesky ghoul > warrens. From the excellent MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) > site - a short article on the Russian RPO-A `Shmel'. A combination > rocket-launcher/flamethrower, it uses similar technology to that favourite > of DG-agents everywhere - FAE. > > Apparently, the Afghans called this things Satan Sticks because they were > so effective. I read recently they had also been very effective in Grozney. I have a receollection of British troops in the Falklands using antivehicle missiles for trench clearing - fire one along a trench and anyone in it gets burnt. I guess this may be a development of that idea... Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 7:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Filmic Shame (was Re: DG: Books?) Greetings. Mark 'Silver Screen' McFadden confessed the unconfessable and wrote >Who has dibs on Dennis Miller as The Lizard King. >Although a younger longhaired Richard Dreyfus would be closer. [Snip!] > Kinda Vibish when I think about it, sitting in a theater and watching >someone imitate me. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Yes, but worse - no Oscar material, there. I was in the Air Farce at the time, and Stargate had just premiered. So this guy from the Command Office comes in one day and goes 'Man! I just saw your future! You'll end up in some desert or other... That guy's just too much like you!' And so I had to face the fact that, yes, the sinister minions of demented mastermind Roland Emmerich had spied upon me and used an awful lot of my mannerism (nerdiness it's NOT!) for the James Spader character - it was all there, my clothes (that's MY jacket!), my trademark exposition style, the glasses and messed up hair, the candy bars and sweets; even the classic 'this stuff is all wrong. Who's the idiot that did the translation?' is pretty (TM) Davide Mana Street Geologist. Hell, I was even stood up once during one exposition, delivering my (brilliant!) taphonomic reconstruction of the Perna maxillata ecology to a solitary palaeontologist at the bottom of the hall. Considering that at the time this violation of my life happened I was spending most of my time wearing drab green fatigues, it was downright SCARY. It all happening in a second rate movie like that was simply depressing. On the other hand, it was the only guy that got the girl in the end, so I will not complain too much. And in case you were wondering, yes - James Spader might do, in a round-eyed, dorkish way, should he get a few kilos up. Or even better, should I _drop_ a few! On to some DG-related musings - it is a well known fact that any one of us has about two dozens of lookalikes around the globe - facial features can come only in a finite number of combinations, and there's a LOT of us running around on the old Earth. No reason why mannerisms should not be equally limited in number - cultural globalization etc etc etc are really helping alongo those lines. Books, films and such are gibving us common bases and common clishes.. This should really help those MKULTRA guys in their research - building an exact copy of someone (for research or exploitation purposes) is no longer a matter of devising some new technique; they have just to look for the right guy and feed him the same movies/books. This offers some pretty weird possibilities - considering that your lookalike might not necessarily be a member of your sex, for instance. I'll have to work this on in a scenario. End of rants. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 12:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Derleth, Hastur, test for Eco Yes, Dave K., you get a hearty second from me. Use of Derlethian ideas as background silliness is an excellent idea. Even better is to take that one step further, and go full-on Lin Carter with it. Read "Something In the Moonlight" if you don't know what I mean. Zillions of raving bonkos out there repeating hyperbolic versions of the same series of names and place-names, and your players will soon, inescapably, feel the intense, fervid _seriousness_ of the subjects said bonkos are into. Eventually, they'll mistake that "everyone seems to be really convinced of this", means "Holy shit, all of these people are ON to something". Then everything goes all wrong, ha ha ha. See, the trick is to make at least several of these nuts "discredited professors"; given that the PC academics in your group have probably been alienated because of their "revelations", they will doubtless feel some kinship here. And will be more likely to be sympathetic to the poor bastards, rather than taking everything they say with a whole barrel of salt. God, I love Derleth and Carter. And I love it BECAUSE it's so fucking wrong. It's such wishful-thinking, "gee-if-I-say-and-do-such-and-such-I-can-be-a-powerful-servant-of-essentially-good-beings-and-they'll-whisk-me-off-to-Elysia" (or the Gulf of S'gluho, or wherever the stupid Sgt. Nodens Elder Godly Club Band plays these days). I mean, it really is the kind of fantasy that some person would come up with to keep from shutting down entirely, when confronted with a Reality that beggars the worst paranoid depression. You are so right. On to other things. For everyone participating intelligently in the Movie/KIY/Radio Free Hastur Channel discussion, all I can say is "Wow." It's a pleasure reading all this, I pray it'll end up Ice Caved. Who'da thought there would be a KIY/Hastur Roundtable, Part Two? I was so sure that all the stuff in the Cave I read already had mined pretty much every angle. As for Eco...well, I don't feel too much need (this time) to go off on those who don't like him. Hey, whatever, ya don't get it, ya don't get it. I have to say (Mr. Mana, nyaah) that I really _enjoyed_ it when I read it; this is not to say that I necessarily got anything particularly striking out of it, ultimately. But then again, I'm pretty dense, I don't soak up things too well sometimes. It took me a fucking YEAR to read it all the way through. Rest assured, no amount of possible image-enhancement or implied coolness could have convinced me to trudge through it. It just _seemed worth it_. And it was, in the end. Oddly, it took me less than 48 hours to read the ILLUMINATUS trilogy, which is no less dense, prose-wise. I think the major difference was that ILLUMINATUS was giving me what I wanted to hear, every step of the way, no matter how confusing. Whereas, _Pendulum_ was deliberately made to knock down every idea that every chapter would give you, as to where it was headed, as to what to expect, as to what the Theme or point might be. Irritating, to no end. But I loved it. I can't fully explain this. Fuckin' A, I've nothing much to add, I just wanted to delurk and give a big hand, yada blah yada. Oh, just got _A Guide to the Cthuhlu Cult_ from Armitage. Still laughing my ASS off-I fully intend to tout this as some "scholarly work" to confuse investigators. I predict half of them will buy into it completely ("But it's so meticulous and has so many source notations. How can it be bullshit?"). The other half will be so flabbergasted by the goofy "anecdote-as-convincing evidence" pseudo-scholarship, they'll never trust ANYTHING I hand them from a scholarly source. Consequently, both camps will end up strung by their own ligaments. I win. Ia! Rhan-tegoth! xJAYx "Force you to be Nice to one another Kill you, before you Kill each other- Violent Pacification. Violent Pacification." -DRI ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.