From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:04 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 In a message dated 00-03-21 16:31:29 EST, you write: << Suppose the Vibe that passed over our planet 1895-1925 had an effect on scientists as well as artists? Do you know Quantum Mechanics got started as far back as 1905? It's nearly a hundred years old. QM and Relativity both started in the same general period as DAEDALUS - and as The King In Yellow. )) >> Now that's not a bad at all at all. Musings on the relationship of science and art, hints of other forms of "sensitive" natures. Y'know, the usual talents that get dubbed prodigies seem to always show up in 1) Mathematics 2) Music 3) Chess combine that with the apparent Mythos prediliction for non-Euclidean geometry and preying on math savants and the ubiquitous insane piping and I'm starting to wonder if we've been overlooking chess. Mark McFadden Oh wait! There *was* a brilliant essay on the symbolic interpretations of chess pieces in relation to the Karotechia ranks. The author escapes me at the moment.... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Juneau [djuneau@io.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:20 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Michael Layne wrote: > BTW, recoilless rifles have a backblast problem very similar to rocket > launchers -- it is as dangerous to stand directly behind the breech as it is > to stand in front of the muzzle when they are fired! One history of > artillery I read mentions the fate of some VC who, during the Vietnam > unpleasantness, managed to capture an American (or possibly ARVN) 105mm RR > (the weapon you sometimes find in plastic form mounted on the old GI Joe > Jeep). Deciding to use it against its former owners, they loaded it up, > brought it to bear on a bunker, and (the gun crew tightly clustered just aft > of the breech) commenced firing. It is unrecorded whether or not they hit > the bunker, but, needless to say, they never got off a second shot! Sounds like the (possibly foxhole-legend) story that Bill Mauldin heard in Korea: sees the North Koreans had glommed a 57mm recoilless, and curious, tried it out. WHOOSH. Hmmm. Maybe we have it backwards? WHOOSH. Try sideways? WHOOSH. Damn, this sucks. Trash it. (According to the story, they never used the captured weapon against ROK/US/UN foreces... as told in BILL MAULDIN IN KOREA, ISBN unknown.) Now, to wander vaguely on-topic, what-all happened in the DG vein during the Korean War? Some reports suggest that a large portion of the Japanese effort to create an atomic bomb was either moved to or originally based in what later became North Korea. (There's even rumour of an actual test detonation, right around August '45.) Oddities may have wandered out of Russia during the Russo-Japanese War, or after the Revolution; same goes for China in all its varied upheavals. Maybe the stuff the Japanese were *afraid* to mess with in Manchukuo or the Home Islands was located in a nice, isolated, rocky penennsula? Japanese biological & chemical researchers and data were quietly slipped away for further study; Chinese and Soviet claims of US biological warfare against the North Koreans during the Korean War didn't have any connection to this, did it? In a more postwar era, the USS PUEBLO, a US Navy intelligence-gathering boat, was captured by the North Koreans in, uhm, '68? or so; a book I read a short while back (THE PUEBLO CONSPIRACY, I think; I'd have the correct date, title and even an ISBN if it was where I'd left it) points out all sorts of suspicious actions and details, and eventually claims that the PUEBLO was sacrificed to feed compromised encryption hardware to the Soviets. (A report on the USS SCORPION, sunk in 1968, says that convicted spy William Walker had sold the Soviets "keycards" for the cryppie gear lost on the PUEBLO prior to its capture; this was linked to suspicions that the SCORPION was betrayed by its own communications while spying on a Soviet naval force, and torpedoed.) At least since the 1970s, North Korean tunnels have been being discovered running under the DMZ, for use by infiltrators and (eventually) invasion. And one thing that *I* particularly liked, for idea-fodder, was a North Korean sub, abandoned, with most of the crew dead (murdered, suicide? I forget offhand), and a number of commando-types running around the countryside. (This may have happened more than once.) Korea makes a wonderful place to run; the Korean War involved a fresh Communist Menace, with the Chinese and Soviets right in the neighbourhood. Add in elements from UN forces, who might be DG-type veterans of World War II, leftover Japanese goodies of all sorts (not to mention the Home Islands just a little ways off), Ghu only knows what "native" ickiness there might be, and anything else you desire... and all in a relatively short timeframe! Can your agents evacuate a mouldering library in the face of the Red Horde? What else was up at Frozen Chosin? Bubonic plague-infested fleas, or some SAN-blasting horror, secretly dropping from B-29s? Brainwashing, or brain*swapping*? I seem to recall a massacre of NK prisoners (on an island?); what - or *whose* - purpose did it serve? Heheheheh. Don From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 8:10 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 From: Andy Robertson > Suppose the Vibe that passed over our planet 1895-1925 had an effect > on scientists as well as artists? I do like the idea that the Vibe waxes and wanes as the stars change. > Do you know Quantum Mechanics got started > as far back as 1905? It's nearly a hundred years old. QM and > Relativity both started in the same general period as DAEDALUS - > and as The King In Yellow. )) HPL was also profoundly affected by what he read of quantum mechanics, IIRC. And don't forget, from the same period, I believe, one of the earliest comic-strip characters: The Yellow Kid. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 7:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Trail of the Lloigor Another Lliogor bit, quite heterodox (is this my new favorite word?), is The Illuminatus Trilogy (RA Wilson and R Shea). In this, the Lloigor is a term used to identify the GOO as a whole--they are all Lloigor. The term basically means something like "incredibly foul, powerful energy-matrix life form." It is also possible (through the mass sacrifice of large numbers of sentient beings) for lower-order sentients (us) to make the jump to Lloigor-order levels of being. In other words, they are not a race per se, but rather individuals of many races who have achieved Lloigor status. In most cases, through mass murder. The theory would make yet another good red herring for the players. Or it could even be true, in way--but I find it to be a bit too pat, myself. Quite appealing, though, and a good Mythos explanation for Hitler. Like it or not, The Illuminatus Trilogy presents a lot to think about for players of CoC/DG. And you'll get a lot of the in jokes on this list (and at the Steve Jackson Games site, and many other bizarre places) after reading it. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mike Marchi [mikemarchi@demonground.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 11:32 PM To: Delta Green Mailing List Subject: DG: DEMONGROUND Volume 8 - Now Available!! DEMONGROUND: Reflections of a Darker Future VOLUME 8 NOW AVAILABLE!!!! That's right! The moment you've waited for has finally arrived. The eighth issue of DEMONGROUND is now available for download. We hope you enjoy it. This is the first issue that includes material for game systems other than Dark Conspiracy, and we couldn't be happier. We have an excellent plot hook for Dark Matter. Plus, the guys at Eden Studios were kind enough to let us provide you with an excerpt from their new game, "All Flesh Must Be Eaten". It's zombies and mayhem at its finest. Be sure to check it out. Since we last sent you an update, we have two announcements. First, we've added a new associate editor to the DG staff, Chris Carpenter. Second, another game system has signed on. Chaosium has given us the go-ahead to support Call of Cthulhu as well! Volume 9 is currently slated for June 6, 2000. The deadline for submissions to DG9 is May 1, 2000. We realize the Dark Conspiracy folks have the drop on you, and also that the All Flesh and Dark Matter supporters got a jump on the rest, but it's not too late to make a grab for the title of most prolific game system in DEMONGROUND. We're looking for articles and artwork for All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Call of Cthulhu, Conspiracy X, Dark Conspiracy, Dark Matter, Delta Green, Unknown Armies and Witchcraft. This fanzine is for you! Once again, we thank you for your patience and continued support. The DEMONGROUND editorial staff http://www.demonground.org From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 11:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Trail of the Lloigor In a message dated 3/21/00 7:29:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: << Like it or not, The Illuminatus Trilogy presents a lot to think about for players of CoC/DG. And you'll get a lot of the in jokes on this list (and at the Steve Jackson Games site, and many other bizarre places) after reading it. Dave >> For example, the code phrase Alphonse used in DG:ROE to activate the defenses at [an undisclosed location] Also, the name of a certain PISCES resource who is Asking The Wrong Questions. Mark McFadden Celebrity spokesman for the Fnord Foundation Hail Eris. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 11:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 In a message dated 3/21/00 7:22:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: << And don't forget, from the same period, I believe, one of the earliest comic-strip characters: The Yellow Kid. >> I've been waiting for Charles Fos..uh, William Randolph Hearst to rear his head. The Yellow Kid was the seed of the term "yellow journalism". Hearst bought the character to show off that Hearst papers could print the color yellow, sort of the "matte on a white background" barrier of the time. "Yellow journalism" became a way to talk about Hearst and his style of journalism without invoking the army of lawyers Hearst had on call, among other things. Mark McFadden Next up, William Randolph Hearst and the Cannabis Conspiracy. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 11:43 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Trail of the Lloigor In a message dated 3/21/00 9:29:01 PM Central Standard Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: > Like it or not, The Illuminatus Trilogy presents a lot to think about for > players of CoC/DG. And you'll get a lot of the in jokes on this list (and at > the Steve Jackson Games site, and many other bizarre places) after reading > it. Yes. Even so, I was unable to enjoy that book(s?). Something about it just set my teeth on edge. Especially when they bury the Nazis in a Jewish cemetary. But I digress. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:25 PM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: Re: LLWs From: Jonathan Turner > Saw a documentary on Discovery last weekend about Less than Lethal weapons. > Please bear in mind that there was no date on this show, so it could be a > few years old and hence old news to youse guys. I have it on tape from at least a year back. Good stuff--I wonder how some of it's developed since then. > The turbine > creates a sonic wave at a frequency which creates ``bodily discomfort'' - > ie nausea and uncontrollable vomiting. So the cops are still gonna need > water cannons! Long ago, I read an article or a book (can't remember which) by Hunter S. Thompson in which he reminisced fondly about using such a thing when he was working for a police department. I suppose that would have been in the 60s. So the effect has been known for a while. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jeff Boles [chronos@ou.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 2:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Status Report from B-Cell (fiction) Here's a report from a different DG agent in my campaign. This one captures a lot of emotion and the feel of the story, so I thought I'd share. As I said before, responses or comments are much appreciated. -------------------------------------------------- TO: A-CELL@DG.COM FROM: BELL@DG.COM RE: THE STATUS OF B-CELL BODY: I've been in this game too long. We went into the op three agents strong. We were well armed, and completely prepared. Agent Benson was young and fit, these kind of things his speciality. Agent Ophelia was sharp and clear. I, perhaps a bit tired of it all, was ready as well. Benson is dead. He shot himself through the bottom of the jaw an hour ago. Ophelia is all but crippled, after being tortured. And I was so drained of blood I nearly died. I'm sorry this is so unclear. My mind isn't exactly ordered right now. I know this report should be concise and to the point. I've written more than a few of these in the past thirteen years, so it should be second hat. But I can't get the look in Benson's eyes as he pulled the trigger out of my head. As you may recall, B-Cell had only two members since it was formed six months ago. Ophelia was assigned to assist us on our current case as she was already in the San Francisco area for the Thanksgiving holidays. The case we were researching was the investigation into a series of murders taking place in the Brakensville neighborhood of SF. Seven 20-30 year old women had been killed by means of slit throats and surgical blood draining. Our best forensic intelligence pegged a hypodermic device to be the means by which the blood was removed, post-mortem. With Ophelia's help we were able to determine the killer to be a nonhuman being, who when he was declared Missing and pressumed dead in 1986, had been named Owen Travers. See attached jpegs for images. Owen was cleary not human as he was cadaverous in many aspects. He possessed no heart beat, and his temperature was sub-standard. He claimed that he had been experimented on by someone, and they had changed him via some kind of chemical and/ or genetic means into his subhuman state. Despite the obvious signs, he did not possess the central vampiric trait: pronouced teeth. It was for this reason he utilized the hypodermic device. While pursuing and capturing Owen Travers, we were assaulted by several creatures who I can only described as vampire-like beasts. These things were terribly destructive. They moved like gods. The speed and ferocity they displayed was matched only by their inhuman resistance to our firearms. We managed to slow one down by blowing off the majority of its upper cranial region, but others pursued. Owen Travers gave this explanation for his status [I have filled in the details with what we have determined from our investigation]: An international medical research firm called JERICHO TECHNOLOGIES {hereafter refered to as JT} based out of Frankfurt, Germany, had kidnapped him some time before. A scientist he called Dr. Von Neusum, who he claimed was German and a vampire, had used him as a test subject. Under a project entitled Aponanov [Immortal? Benson thought it was Russian], Owen claimed this Von Neusum was attempting to alter vampires to allow them to be immune to sunlight. It was later discovered that Dr. Von Neusum had attempted to kidnap normal human beings and convert them to solar resistant vampires, but they died in the process, or were non-viable [witnessing some of the rejects is what I believe helped unhinge Agent Benson]. For this reason Owen was kidnapped for use. Owen Travers had been a vampire for nearly a decade, and thus it was believed, we think, that he would have a greater chance of surviving. Let me be clear. Owen Travers was able to function in clear unfiltered sunlight. But the process was not perfected; Owen suffered constantly from pains and chemical imbalances in his brain, and his eyesight was begining to grow impared. His strength was greatly reduced, according to his testimony, and he underwent frequent seizures and other attacks. I don't think I need to emphasize what the sucess of this research could have meant for the human race. These things, they tore through us like we were nothing. They toyed with us, playing with us as a cat does with an insect. If these creatures were unleashed on the unsuspecting world with the ability to move in broad daylight, the effects would be catastrophic. For these reasons we, including a vengeful and perhaps dying Owen, agreed to strike at the project. What we walked into was a nightmare. Dr. Von Neusum was one of the creatures. He was quick, powerful, and cunning. According to the data we found on him, we was supposedly born in 1930 in Switzerland. I believe that was a false indentity. He looks 65, but his true age could of been anything. Owen saved Ophelia's life, helping her to stop one of the creatures in its tracks. Your information was very useful, Alphonse. After penetrating the heart, the creatures become sluggish and almost paralyzed. With the quick usage of a Fire Axe they can be destroyed. The problem is their speed and strength. While one drained me, Ophelia did her best to stop it. For her efforts her wrist was shattered. These things simply walked all over us. When only Dr. Von Neusum was left, we ran into a serious problem. The Doctor had someone with him, who was NOT a vampire. A fortyish blonde-blue-eyed Aryan poster-boy was with him. Somehow this man wracked and tore Owen's body all out of proportions without even breaking a sweat. I did not witness the act. Benson, who will soon be interred, did see it. Before he killed himself, he described hearing words from the German stranger's mouth which burnt inside his ears, and then a presence was in the room with them. He said he saw something like snow, gray and white, and then the virgin Mary. She beckoned to him, he said. And then Owen was ripped apart and torn stretched all out of any kind of sense. We were able to stop and kill the Doctor, and I personally eliminated Owen. Ophelia and Benson managed to stop the German, who I can only conclude was some kind of bizarre magician. While in pursuit he made Ophelia think her coat was on fire, and nearly shot her as she desperately attempted to put out the flames. We did not attempt to help the test subjects. They were in a horrific state of inhuman suffering, and therefore we simply planted the charges and evacuated. I will never forgive myself, but I did not realize at the time how gone Benson was. I had lost nearly enough blood to pass out, and the adrenalin that was keeping me going was about gone as well. Benson drove back to our meeting place on his own, due to my inability to drive. Perhaps those last minutes of silence sealed his fate. I will never know. Benson helped Ophelia and I, gave us medical attention, and saw to our immediate needs. Ophelia was horribly beaten and hurt, the bones in her wrist literally crushed. I couldn't move, on the edge of unconciousness. Then agent Benson began to talk oddly. He spoke of what he saw. He acted desperate to tell us what he had seen. I grew concerned, and ordered Ophelia to disarm him, but he drew his weapon and kept it on both of us. God help me, I was so tired and weak. I wasn't there for him. There is no forgiveness. He explained how it was all in order now. He had seen the holy mother. He was ready to go to her. Ophelia, in intense pain and distraught, did everything she could to stop him and calm him. He just put the gun under his chin and fired. I know I've done a lot of good. I have fought for things I believe in. I still believe in. No doubts. But I don't think I can fight anymore. I can't write anymore. I am sorry. Bell -------------------------------------------- Jeffrey Bryan Boles English Major Computer Science Major ----------------------------------------------------------------- chronos@ou.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ "It is the child in man that is the source of his uniqueness and creativeness, and the playground is the optimal milieu for the unfolding of his capacities and talents." Eric Hoffer (1902-83), U.S. philosopher. Reflections on the Human Condition, aph. 27 (1973). ============================================================ "Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense." -- Mark Twain (1835-1910) ============================================================ "There ain't no Devil. That's just God when He's drunk." --- Tom Waits ============================================================ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 2:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 Greetings. Mark McFadden noted.... >Y'know, the usual talents that get dubbed prodigies seem to always show up in > 1) Mathematics > 2) Music > 3) Chess > > combine that with the apparent Mythos prediliction for non-Euclidean >geometry and preying on math savants and the ubiquitous insane piping and I'm >starting to wonder if we've been overlooking chess. There is a little article by Fritz Leiber about Knight moves and non conventional geometries. Leiber was (IIRC) a Master level chess player and was obviously the right man in the right place. I'll have to dig it out and go through it again. Unless I'm mistaken, it's in 'The Second Book of Fritz Leiber', originally published by DAW. Also worth noticing is a book called "The Psychology of the Chess Player" - author escapes me, and I'm not sure if it was ever published out of Italy. I'll come back as soon as I have more data. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons At 02:11 PM 3/21/00 EST, you wrote: Deciding to use it against its former owners, they loaded it up, >brought it to bear on a bunker, and (the gun crew tightly clustered just aft >of the breech) commenced firing. It is unrecorded whether or not they hit >the bunker, but, needless to say, they never got off a second shot! A True Lies moment if ever there was one... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:28 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Unconvention At 08:35 PM 3/21/00 -0000, you wrote: >dont worry - cyst on brain - no shan here :-) > > Yikes! Good luck! JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:29 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Bloody Tongue At 07:33 PM 3/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >Cause we must respect their culture. Until they off themselves, then we have >to pity them. > >NOTE: To all readers, joining a suicide cult can be hazardous to your health > Well, I suppose the problem is when they take a lot of innocent people with them. But hey, that's why DG are there, isn't it? ;-) JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons At 08:30 PM 3/21/00 -0000, you wrote: > >good trench design is about keeping the defenders alive in the face of >enemy bombardment . > Exactly. This story may arise from one isolated incident, however. Even a very basic trench network should be zig-zagged at least to prevent a lucky artillery shell from spraying shrapnel right along it. JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: LLWs At 12:25 PM 3/22/00 +0900, you wrote: >Long ago, I read an article or a book (can't remember which) by Hunter S. >Thompson in which he reminisced fondly about using such a thing when he was >working for a police department. I suppose that would have been in the 60s. >So the effect has been known for a while. > > The documentary did mention some forms of experimental crowd control such as huge amounts of detergent had been around since the 60s, then abandoned but returned to later. I think that the latest research seems to be aimed more towards the military end of the market. JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Edgar Riceboro [rlyehswimmer@angelfire.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Thermobaric weapons On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:20:25 Don Juneau queried: >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Michael Layne wrote: >Now, to wander vaguely on-topic, what-all >happened in the DG vein during the Korean War? What happened in Korea? Quite possibly a catastrophic predecessor to DG's bungled Cambodian operation. Check the following URL for more details. http://www.freep.com/news/nw/qkorea30.htm The part you need to stick on is the "women and children aspect"....sometime back someone commented on the aspects of My Lai, IIRC. >Korea makes a wonderful place to run; the >Korean War involved a fresh Communist Menace, >with the Chinese and Soviets right in the >neighbourhood. As for Korea being a "wonderful place" to run in, consider that the location of most of the fighting is way the hell upwards of the equator, and therefore, unsuitable to preventing the freezing off of one's masculinity. There are also stories about GIs using their dead buddies as cover because the bodies froze within seconds..."Gee Lt., you sure make a good sandbag!" Okay, fun for keepers, maybe. But your players will want your head. -Edgar Riceboro Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 7:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: LLWs >I think that the latest research seems to be aimed more towards the >military end of the market. "Aimed towards the military _end_ of the market", eh? Pun intended? Seriously, the military would be bound to be interested in such technologies (IIRC, it's ULF sound wave based). Anything which has the potential to incapacitate the enemy (ie. prevent them shooting back) has to be a good thing. Bear in mind also that if the enemy is expecting an attack from an enemy using low lethality weapons, then chances are they will be expecting tear gas. ULF sonic attack on someone in an NBC suit and respirator, anyone? Unpleasant, yes? (Did this to a Cyberpunk team I was reffing for once. It was fun.) Later Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Alternity / Dark Matter / Wizards of the Coast News There was some mention of a "group statement of protest", and it's possible use (against) WotC. Ummm...we (you?) on the list are reasonably mature. Won't be swayed _merely_ by good artwork, or facile-but-slick marketing. Won't be swayed into apathy by protests of, "C'mon, it's just business". Won't be fooled into giving up a bunch of money because we want to keep up with the Joneses, and have the latest of everything. We know everything about the games out there, past and present (collectively), and have a marked interest, not only in the mechanics and gameworld, but in the meta-gaming stuff as well; the real-world stuff that makes up the "industry" part of the industry. In short, WE'RE NOT THEIR "TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC". Young children with disposable allowances and/or gullible parents ARE. Stupid twink scumbags with plenty of smarts when it comes to averaging d10 rolls, but no self-control or sense of forethought when buying the latest "cool Monstrous Compendium, duuuude!" ARE. . I repeat, we're not who they care about. We SHOULD be, but we aren't... Answer? Fuck 'em. Try not to buy their products. Ever. Slop 'em off the Inter-Web-thing. That's where I've gotten over 500 pages of free Planescape/Al-Qadim stuff. If I'd've PAID for that hogwash, I'd hafta slash my wrists. Let's face it, their stuff is going to get more and more juvenile, and we're getting less and less likely to fall for it, the older we get. So get your kicks someplace else. Don't give 'em your money, bad-mouth them to every gamer you know, tell all of your younger gamer friends the reasons they might want to try other stuff (like Pagan, who've yet to turn to the Bastard Mammon, and many thanks for that). If other companies that DESERVE to thrive (or just survive) don't make it, it's because geeks like me (and YOU, just admit it) didn't do enough to talk them up, and support them monetarily. Which means you'll be left to make shit up on your own. Having seen what you guys can do, that's not such a hideous thing, as worst-case-scenarios go. I always found out about the little guys passing far too late, it seems...I always ended up mourning them far too late. Maybe it seems my apparent cynicism is just a reaction to that. But that's not how I mean it. I just don't won't these Hasbro dicks getting everyone all reactive, as if we MUST face up to them as this nigh-unstopppable force. Fuck 'em. Pay attention to the guys you want to _SAVE_. "No more bullshit- We've had enough We can't take Anymore of your shit- You've got the power, And you've got the guns, Don't shoot me now Just 'cause I'm having fun... What's with you? What's with you?" -AF, "Smell the Bacon" xJAYx (I'm hoping Hogshead stays around; "Warpstone" makes WFRP seem as appealing as it was in sixth grade, the first time; truly a breath of fresh air). ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 8:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Trail of the Lloigor...extra Hopefully not redundant, but there's an 1890's scenario w/ lloigor in "Sacraments of Evil", by the same name. Not really that good, IMHO, but I was never one for Gaslight anyhow (I thought I was, for a while...sigh. $40 later, I'm sure it's not for me). Anyhow, there's some wierd imagery in the scenario, but it's overall kinda 'ehhh'. Best lloigor bash is definitely in "Tales of the Miskatonic Valley", for sure. Excellent B. Reynolds art, and a story taking elements of the excellent "Five Million Years to Earth". Take cues from that one. And always, ALWAYS allow for the mindset of the lloigor to gradually infect the campaign, for as long as the beasts remain present. See how far down the road to getting the characters thinking like suicidal paranoids can go. Let them REALLY GROK what it means to have no reason for anything except to live, and live, and live, and destroy the opposition. Then once the threat is over, let 'em think about how they'll face a human world, having felt the absolute pointlessness of artifices like "hope" or "interest". On second thought, most agents end up that way as a matter of course. Forget I said anything:) "I never fell for your cause But always pointed out your flaws So don't you try To come off as a friend..." -Sheer Terror, "Not Waving, Drowning" xJAYx (turning my frown upside-down!) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: LLWs They also had a simulation of a Blackhawk - basic matte black of course - using an underslung sonic weapon to force people out of buildings. Designed to prevent another Waco. JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 8:12 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Trail of the Lloigor I just sent a couple of extremely belated messages, one concerning the lloigor scenarios, et al. Seems I'm in the definite minority on the "Sacraments of Evil" scenario. So prhaps it just gets to me because of the setting...in truth, all the "good parts" I noticed _did_ have to do, specifically, with the lloigor. And I guess that's what was was asked for, good lloigor stuff. But don't buy the WHOLE book on that account, fa chrissakes. Xerox it off of somebody else. xJAYx ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Martin Ostergaard [MAOS@int.tele.dk] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Delta X Chris Sorisio wrote: > ObDG: One adventerous fellow took one of King's books (Mists?) and turned > it into a CoC gaming scenario. Are there any other stories by King that > would work well as inspiration for a DG campaign or one-shot? Jerusalem's Lot (NOT Salem's Lot), its a short story involving De Vermiis Mysteriis og Dholes. I was quite baffled to find this sort of story from King, usually his stories consists of the usual formula, much like Koontz's books (used to read that sort of thing when I was a wee not so old thing). -Martin P.S. sorry if this thread has been dead for a while. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 1:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 From: > Next up, William Randolph Hearst and the Cannabis Conspiracy. Now, now--that's in the Archives. :-) And I've just read the article by JBS Haldane at www.santafe.edu/~shalizi/Daedalus.html --thanks very much to Andy the Glovecleaner for suggesting that one. On a related note to the above, his views on drugs were most interesting, and really make me ponder the theory that the negative properties of certain social drugs (notably cocaine and heroin) have caused such a backlash against others that today we can barely bring ourselves to do any objective research toward finding better ones, or improving the ones we have (Cannabis Light, anyone?). Haldane was quite sure that we would find new things to brighten our lives. Question (English-teacher mode kicking in): Did Haldane himself write those lines of poetry in the article, or are they quoted from somewhere--and if so, where? Interesting stuff. Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 9:05 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: Trail of the Lloigor > Jason R. Armstrong opens mouth before engaging brain about Chaosium's > 'Sacraments of Evil': <<< But don't buy the WHOLE book on that account, fa chrissakes. > Xerox it off of somebody else. >>> > But 'consumer choice advocate' Jason R. Armstrong had earlier said: <<< If other companies that DESERVE to thrive (or just survive) don't make it, it's because geeks like me (and YOU, just admit it) didn't do enough to talk them up, and support them monetarily. >>> Follow your own advice Jason. Chaosium ARE one of the little guys with a 1% market share and a troubled financial past. Ill considered samizdat suggestions won't help them survive. Keep them in business by buying their stuff, even it's flawed, that way you get something like 'Masks of Nyarlathotep' and 'Beyond the Mountains of Madness' every couple of years. -- Adam Crossingham War in English = Wanting more cows in Sanskrit Home e-mail: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Shane Ivey [sivey@zealot.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:30 AM To: DGML Subject: DG: FW: GO Weekly Newsletter If you haven't already heard... -----Original Message----- From: comments@gamingoutpost.com [mailto:comments@gamingoutpost.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 12:58 AM To: sivey@zealot.com Subject: GO Weekly Newsletter ---------------------------------------- The Unknown Green Armies of the Delta Contest (thru April 30) John Tynes himself will choose the best fiction vignette of 1000 words or less that combines Delta Green with Unknown Armies. The prizes are... well, it's the motherload! http://www.gamingoutpost.com/contests/greenarmy.shtml ---------------------------------------- Shane Ivey Today at Zealot.com: Dicht Theeselv to Ficht: Zealot Reviews TIMELINE GameJudge.com: The Game Review Superportal Delta-Green.com: Lovecraftian Horror and Modern Conspiracy Full-time Positions & Freelance Writing: Zealot.com/jobs/ From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 11:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Salutations! Well, after a LOOOOOONG hiatus I am back. Among other things, I got a job at Lycos, Inc, moved from Pittsburgh, PA to Boston, MA and got married. I have started working on CoC Endtimes again! A bunch of updates. I had sort of stalled out over some issues, such as how to reflect a complex future with minimal rules. I also have to get my paws on Convergence so I can smudge continuity issues. Anyhow, glad to be back, guys. It's William TimmIns, by the way. Odd English spelling or something. And the site has been moved to: http://wtimmins.tripod.com/DG/ Once more, into the pit... -Will ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew Kenrick [andrew.kenrick7@virgin.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:39 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: DG Fiction > Keep up the good work and if there are any DG fans in the UK on this list > let me know. i'm in the uk! and free from marauding shans thank you very much! Andrew "What is the mythos? Noone can be told what the mythos is, you have to see it for yourself" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 1:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Turbine powered sound weapon and similar toys In a message dated 00-03-22 01:16:50 EST, you write: << > The turbine creates a sonic wave at a frequency which creates ``bodily discomfort'' - ie nausea and uncontrollable vomiting. So the cops are still gonna need water cannons!< Long ago, I read an article or a book (can't remember which) by Hunter S. Thompson in which he reminisced fondly about using such a thing when he was working for a police department. I suppose that would have been in the 60s. >> It was also briefly described as an option for a hostage situation in Oath of Fealty by Niven & Pournelle. Interestingly, the device was descibed as a full size jet engine with adjustable baffling to produce the desired tone(s). On a vaguely similar note, has anyone else grooved on the "pillar of fire" concert speakers? Here's the Mr. Knowitall explanation, let me just break out the 3D BB. Ready Tennessee? Get the lights, Chumley. Sound is vibration, waves, propagated through a medium. Look at a speaker in action, its just a surface getting pulled back and forth like a toilet plunger to "push" the "air" at you. So some smart guy figured that what you really want to do is get the "air' accelerated to the frequency you want, so you don't need to move any mechanical surface back and forth if you can convince the air to get with the program. Ionize the air, then manipulate it like a solenoid. What eventually came of it is these outdoor speakers: instead of air, go for something that rises and can be uniformly ionized to the same polarity. Some liquid that evaporates quickly into a lighter than air vapor. As the charged vapor rises, it passes through the open drivers that accelerate the charged particles and make a sound. Move the vapor a little too fast and it combusts, which isn't dangerous on a tower in an open air venue and looks cooler'n all get out. BOOM! shaka lakka lakka BOOM! I have some FOAFs who make custom speaker systems and have a few patents. And a project that got shut down as soon as they tried to get a patent. They tried to make a home version of the vapor speaker. They figured that the ambient air is sufficient for home use, so you can skip the liquid and vapor if you can just guarantee a steady source of of identically charged particles for the drivers to accelerate. Without providing too many details, they used a material that is available from most chemical suppliers (and doesn't require permission to buy) that is a mild emitter of charged particles. They were having a wonderful time trying to figure out the limitations and advantages of the system. Insane frequencies were possible because they didn't have to be limited by the mechanics and material of the usual speaker/solenoid. And the upper limit was determined by the limits of the driver, not the material of the speaker cone. My friend says he was visiting them in the early days and mentioned that they might want to put a grounding screen between the speaker and listeners. The next time he visited, there was a long scorch mark along the worktable, and a grounding screen in front of the speaker. A few months later, when they applied for a patent....all they will say is that they were visited by representatives of the government and were advised that they wouldn't be getting a patent and their country would appreciate it if they would just drop the subject. And please don't try to put that sucker on the market. This would have been about 1985-6 Mark McFadden Wonders if the headphone version is still an option. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 2:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: > 3) Chess > > combine that with the apparent Mythos prediliction for non-Euclidean > geometry and preying on math savants and the ubiquitous insane piping and I'm > starting to wonder if we've been overlooking chess. > There was an early Leiber story (pause for futile scrabbling search to find title) about a chess player who is enlisted in a battle between two hypercosmic antagonists, which battle plays itself out as a transformed dream-chess match. It has a definite Mythos "feel". What was it called??? (furthur search. Damn you all, you are taking up my time. The clock ticks. The bird flies again to polish its beak against the cube of stone, one parsec wide, one parsec high, one parsec thick). No, I can't find, it but I think it was in the same early collection as "The Automatic Pistol" and "Smoke Ghost". The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos poetry ----- Original Message ----- From: David Farnell To: > Question (English-teacher mode kicking in): Did Haldane himself write those > lines of poetry in the article, or are they quoted from somewhere--and if > so, where? Interesting stuff. > The rest of the poems were by Haldane, but _this_ bit is a quote: Though in black jest it bows and nods * * * * I know it is roaring at the gods Waiting for the last eclipse. A quote from - you'll never guess where and by who - from THE BALLAD OF THE WHITE HORSE, by GK Chesterton - the man who wrote the Father Brown stories. It's on the web at http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dcs0mpw/gkc/books/white-horse2.html This may seem to be totally OT but bear with me. GKC was a major Christian apologist and an excellent epic poet. TBOTWH is a profound meditation on religion, war, Paganism and Catholicism, and has some wonderful passages. The bit quoted above is from a viking bererker's prophecy of Ragnarok. Because of the difficulty of finding it in the (very long) poem, I have copied the verses that contain it below. Haldane respected Chesterton, even though he was deeply atheistic (as am I) and Chesterton was Catholic. I'm not going to recommend the poem as a Mythos source, but those interested in literature might like to look at it, and it might be applicable to Dark Ages background, religious visionaries, or pagan cults. To give you an idea of the "flavour" and power of selected parts of it, be advised also that the poem was an influence on some of Robert E Howard's ideas (he mentions it with great praise in his letters). Haldane-Howard-Chesterton, a logical triad. Conan and Father Brown! It's a wierd world. The Glove Cleaner "So rides my soul upon the sea That drinks the howling ships, Though in black jest it bows and nods Under the moons with silver rods, I know it is roaring at the gods, Waiting the last eclipse. "And in the last eclipse the sea Shall stand up like a tower, Above all moons made dark and riven, Hold up its foaming head in heaven, And laugh, knowing its hour. "And the high ones in the happy town Propped of the planets seven, Shall know a new light in the mind, A noise about them and behind, Shall hear an awful voice, and find Foam in the courts of heaven. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 3:36 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Chess and the Mythos Andy wrote: >There was an early Leiber story (pause for futile scrabbling search >to find >title) about a chess player who is enlisted in a battle between two >hypercosmic antagonists, which battle plays itself out as a >transformed >dream-chess match. It has a definite Mythos "feel". What was it >called??? (furthur search. Damn you all, you are taking up my Found it. "Midnight by the Morphy Watch" (after Paul Morphy, the legendary eccentric chess master who died after taking a cold bath on a very hot day). You do realize, of course, that you're an unwitting pawn (pun intentional) in McFadden's conspiracy to relate everything to Fritz Leiber stories. I'm trying to think of other useful examples, but most just ring changes on the "humans as chess pieces" theme. Steven Kaye From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 4:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Games and the Mythos ----- Original Message ----- From: > Found it. "Midnight by the Morphy Watch" (after Paul Morphy, the legendary eccentric chess master who died after taking a cold bath on a very hot day). That's it > You do realize, of course, that you're an unwitting pawn (pun intentional) in McFadden's > conspiracy to relate everything to Fritz Leiber stories. Hey, I was born to suffer > I'm trying to think of other useful examples, but most just ring changes on the "humans as chess pieces" theme. Chess is culturally bounded. But surely gaming is not. How about games from other cultures? GO (surely the human race's most profound game) seems to me to have the potential to be instantly understandable by almost any being, with any physical basis for their entity, or none. Chess does not share this. If I had to prove my fitness to survive to a bunch of star-headed Antarctic Old Ones who had the whip hand - or something like that - I'd try to teach them GO. Wouldn't you grant life and respect to a starfish that taught you how to play GO? (I don't play GO at anything above the beginner level, alas). Wouldn't work for the really powerful, non-social, Mythos entities - but some of the lower races show motivations not totally opaque to us. But beside that, GO seems to me to have great potential as a "symbol" of the eternal conflict of the Mythos around us. That was the theme (IIRC) of "Midnight.....". But I think GO would be a more accurate and universal symbol than chess, and so might produce a deeper vision. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 4:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mythos Science 1920 In a message dated 00-03-22 15:57:29 EST, you write: << There was an early Leiber story (pause for futile scrabbling search to find title) about a chess player who is enlisted in a battle between two hypercosmic antagonists, which battle plays itself out as a transformed dream-chess match. It has a definite Mythos "feel". What was it called??? (furthur search. Damn you all, you are taking up my time. The clock ticks. The bird flies again to polish its beak against the cube of stone, one parsec wide, one parsec high, one parsec thick). No, I can't find, it but I think it was in the same early collection as "The Automatic Pistol" and "Smoke Ghost". >> I think it was in a Leiber collection called "The Ghost Light and other stories", and that story is what I had in mind when speculating on chess & the Mythos. Howzabout that List Synchronicity, huh? As Davide notes, Leiber was a chess master. Therefore, most of his descriptions of chess dreams and the way chess would take over his waking life was inspired by his own experience. He talked of chess like a 12 Stepper talks of their addictions. Probably with good reason, if I remember some other autobiographical references correctly. Mark McFadden Of course I'm a Leiber fan, I live in the template for Lankhmar don't I? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 4:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Chess and the Mythos In a message dated 00-03-22 16:39:52 EST, you write: << You do realize, of course, that you're an unwitting pawn (pun intentional) in McFadden's conspiracy to relate everything to Fritz Leiber stories. >> Sputter! Spit take! Cough cough. Mark McFadden I thought I was conspiring to relate everything to R A Wilson From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 4:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: Games and the Mythos Greetings. Our resident Glovecleaner just tipped the balance for a decision I was uncertain about >GO (surely the human race's most profound game) seems to me to have the >potential to be instantly understandable by almost any being, with any >physical basis for their entity, or none. Chess does not share this. [Rest of Go ponderings deleted for brevity] I was offered a Go course by the same institution in which I'm currently learning Japanese (and habving lots of fun with it). I was fidgeting about it - I'm a basic level Go player - but this settles the score: I'll take that course. Yes, gentlemen, that's what Glove Cleaning can do to you. For the rest, if someone's keeping score, I'm just another mediocre chess player (gone are the days of high-school, when I played about four hours a week non stop) and a fully committed Fritz Leiber fan. And here I can stop, I guess. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Appelion@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point In a message dated 3/18/00 4:54:48 PM, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: >The history of science as a series of Aphrodites springing >complete and vital from singular Zeusly brows. You mean Artemis, as I remember. Aphrodite came out of the sea. >ObDGML: you can't really understand HPL unless you really understand the >20s Got a very interesting excerpt from a 1881 history text in history today... "The white races are imbued with the greatest share of intelligence, courage, and wisdom..." Especially when you realize your great-grandfather (whom I respect very much) probably used that book, or one much like it (to his credit, I highly doubt he held any of those beliefs, but then, he would have been the exception). Xavier It's days like this that make it worth all the rest. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:12 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Turbine powered sound weapon and similar toys In a message dated 3/22/00 2:03:26 PM Central Standard Time, LizardRoi@aol.com writes: << << > The turbine creates a sonic wave at a frequency which creates ``bodily discomfort'' - ie nausea and uncontrollable vomiting. So the cops are still gonna need water cannons!< >> How about the 1950's "juvenile" series the Rick Brant Electronic Adventures: In the Whispering Box, the weapon being used by a team of intelligence operators was a sonic weapon contained in what passed for a box-type browniie snap shot camera. When you depressed the "shutter" a CO2 cartridge was pierced and the escaping gas passed through an aperture that created a precise high frequency vibration which "paralyzed" the victime - actually caused him to drop to the floor and lose control for a fifteen minute period over his balance and voluntary muscles. A great weapon for immobilizing the intell oeratives iin an office and having time to rip-off documents and intelligence fiiles. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point In a message dated 3/22/00 5:17:32 PM Central Standard Time, Appelion@aol.com writes: << You mean Artemis, as I remember. Aphrodite came out of the sea. >> Quite right. Artemis sprang forth fully formed from her father's brow and Aphrodite was born from the sea foam. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point No, that was Athena who was fully formed from her father's brow. Zeus ate her mother, Metis, while Metis was pregnant with Athena. Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/22/00 5:17:32 PM Central Standard Time, Appelion@aol.com > writes: > > << You mean Artemis, as I remember. Aphrodite came out of the sea. >> > > Quite right. Artemis sprang forth fully formed from her father's brow and > Aphrodite was born from the sea foam. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jeffrey Moeller [jsm@akimmlaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:46 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point And Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo, whose mother, Leto, was pursued by Hera.... ObDG: Oops, cant think of one. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Beck To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 2:42 PM Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point > No, that was Athena who was fully formed from her father's brow. Zeus ate her > mother, Metis, while Metis was pregnant with Athena. > > Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 3/22/00 5:17:32 PM Central Standard Time, Appelion@aol.com > > writes: > > > > << You mean Artemis, as I remember. Aphrodite came out of the sea. >> > > > > Quite right. Artemis sprang forth fully formed from her father's brow and > > Aphrodite was born from the sea foam. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 5:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point In a message dated 3/22/00 5:44:59 PM Central Standard Time, msb216@is7.nyu.edu writes: << No, that was Athena who was fully formed from her father's brow. Zeus ate her mother, Metis, while Metis was pregnant with Athena. >> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (runs away madly, bowing head in shame). From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:12 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point Nope, that was Athena. Artemis was born to Zeus and Leto on the Isle of Delos (The Encyclopedia of Myths and Legends, Stuart Gordon) -----Original Message----- From: Popeyesays@aol.com To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:17 PM Subject: Re: DG: Re: Minor sci point >In a message dated 3/22/00 5:17:32 PM Central Standard Time, Appelion@aol.com >writes: > ><< You mean Artemis, as I remember. Aphrodite came out of the sea. >> > >Quite right. Artemis sprang forth fully formed from her father's brow and >Aphrodite was born from the sea foam. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Juneau [djuneau@io.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sonic weapons and other kewl toys On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > A turbine powered non-lethal weapon was briefly described as an option for a > hostage situation in Oath of Fealty by Niven & Pournelle. Interestingly, the > device was descibed as a full size jet engine with adjustable baffling to > produce the desired tone(s). As I recall, the suggestion was scotched because, while it was Real Good at being fatal, they weren't sure how "denatured" they could get it. (Also as I recall, the one suggesting it was rather pissed at the time...) If so, this makes for a truck-mounted weapon just right for terrorist/cultist use; yeah, the cops (or whoever) will inspect a truckload of fertiliser (or even just a tanker of fuel) pretty closely, but even with warning that "something" is going to happen, a truckload of turbine engine? "Yeah, some guy down in the Loop is building a jet-powered dragster... all this? That's just to keep the sound levels down so's he don't get complaints - these things are *loud*." Hmmm. Evil idea: On-the-fly baffling, preferably without interfering overmuch with power output. (A protected cockpit would be nice as well..) 15,000 people at an NHRA drag-racing event would be a quick sacrifice, eh? Or modify the engines on your chopper and go flat-hatting the neighbourhood... kicking it on after landing on the rooftop helipad might work, altho I'm not sure on how the soundproofing and construction-in-general of the building will affect your attack. Another sonic goodie I'd seen on a scientific pranking page was the engineer who calculated the resonant frequency of the building's stairwells, and then used several speakers and the correct freqency to shiver the entire building. "Yeah, we're FEMA, this is a localised tremblor, get out now!" "OK, toss the place." Continued use might even dump the place in entireity... Don From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Alternity / Dark Matter / Wizards of the Coast News From: Jason R. Armstrong > Pay attention to the guys you want to _SAVE_. Agreed. The idea of sending a protest letter just makes me think of the "Coffee House Wars" episode of _Southpark_. Dave