From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 1:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Steam-powered Conspiracy Hi David, Since you're undertaking this project don't forget...Capt. Nemo's men had a weapon that sounds an awful lot like a lightning gun. Where did they come by such a thing? Was it stolen Mi Go technology or did he make the same dark bargain that MJ 12 made half a century later? Phil Posehn "Dice,n. Small polka dotted cubes that, like a lawyer, may lie upon any side, but generally the wrong one." Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steve Allison [sallison@netcomuk.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:04 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Mind virus warning Agents may be interested in the following development, as reported in 'The Observer' (London) on 26 March under the headline: "Mind virus could give us shopping bug" Synopsis: By luring people to play various games on the internet (typically word-association type tasks) Brand Genetics hopes to be able to determine the types of advertising that an individual will be most susceptible to. This information will be sold to companies who will use it to create a product that is branded and packaged in such a way that the consumer will find it irresistable. Psychologist Paul Marsed (of Brand Genetics) claims it will be able to help businesses trigger shopping crazes for their products. It is suggested that a the consumers' enthusiasm for something that fits so well with their own mindset so well can go on to create a social pandemic, "People are drawn to mimic the behaviour of others" adds Marsden. Successful 'brands' can easily be 'cloned' and 'genetically modified' - tweaked in one small area so the brand fits into the mindset of a new target. Demand for the service is so great that Brand Genetics already has a multi-million pound turnover. ----- DG relevent questions that arise include: 1. The origin of this technology. This science is based on an advanced understanding of how certain aspects of our minds become active in response to certain concepts. It is not impossible that the Mi-Go have mapped this stimulus-response pattern extensively in their efforts to understand the unbounded nature of the human intellect. If the knowledge required to develop the system is extra-terrestrial, exposure to such technologies could have implications for the mental-health of the entire populace. 2. Applications. The ability to start a 'social pandemic' is clearly of great interest to any number of groups that may wish to alter society at a level beyond the individual. At least one group (The Cult of Transcendence) has this as its explicit goal. The experiences of other agents may well suggest other uses/misuses and implications. -- Stephen Allison sallison@netcomuk.co.uk From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Theme Song From: Michael Beck To: Subject: DG: Theme Song I think it's very good. Makes me wish you could make it - I mean for "video streamer" or whatever they call the online thingy - and put it on the site. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: On Gates and similar matters At the temporal co-ordinates Thursday, 23 March, 2000 AD, EdDrWho@aol.com peered out of his TARDIS and stated: > >Er-HEM. It's a TARDIS, and a gate is much closer to a SIDRAT, the dinky >localised version of the classic TT Type 40 Capsule. The newer Type 120's >are said to be much better... > I should hope so -- 80 model numbers later!:) TARDIS (according to the Doctor) supposedly stands for Time And Relative Dimensions In Space, which (as it is in English) has sometimes made me wonder if this is also the acronym for something very similar in Gallifreyan?:) SIDRATs were (I believe) only used by one Time Lord, the renegade known as the War Chief, in the multi-part story "War Game". Since SIDRAT is TARDIS spelled backwards, I strongly suspect the War Chief came up with the acronym first, and then retconned the title (which I don't remember at the moment) which the acronym supposedly stood for. From what I remember of the episodes, it sounds like his sense of humor... As another link between Doctor Who and Delta Green, has anybody else read or played the module "The Hartlewick Horror" for the old FASA "Doctor Who" RPG? It deals with a remarkably Cthulhoid creature, in a 1920s Britain setting reminiscent of 20s CoC! (I've heard rumors that the author originally wrote "Hartlewick Horror" with Chaosium in mind, then reconsidered, revised it somewhat, and sold it to FASA for "Doctor Who"...) Even so, the Hartlewick creature certainly wouldn't be the first Mythos-like menace the Doctor faced... Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com "Earthmen are not especially famed for being the most fearsome warriors in the Galaxy, or the most wily thieves, or the most intelligent scientists. What we seem to be best known for among the other Galactic Races is that we invented the game of "Monopoly"..." -- CPT Lawrence "Perisher" MacInnes, USN ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:33 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: On Gates (relativity and time travel) >From: The Man in Black >materials change resistance with temperature). The fact that you mention >"the normal universe" shows that you are not dwelling in the realm of the >mythos, where causality; like I have stated on many an occasion, is a >total sham. The only true understanding is that nothing can be understood. >The Gate can only be created by abandoning nonsensical human science. > Then the challenge to the Keeper is to define where the universe that we understand leaves off, and where the Mythos picks up. Our science and understanding of things may be like applying gas law to social dynamics (to whit, Isaac Asimov's 'history science' discipline), but there's at least some instances where it applies, and good reasons why. If nothing else, coming up with a way which paradox resolves (or fails to resolve) gives the Keeper a guideline for determining what to have happen next. And understanding the issues gives the Keeper good ways to fuck with players who understand them or play characters who do. -=Will ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 1:52 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mind virus warning It's a two way street. It's possible the Mi-Go may attempt to *acquire* this technology, in pursuit of learning how the human brain works. A Cell might be assigned to prevent the technology from falling into the wrong hands. Still another possibility is that the technology doesn't exist--this is a ploy by Delta Green, PISCES or that Russian group whose name I can't remember right off to lure cultists and Mi-Go out of hiding. Steve Allison wrote: > Agents may be interested in the following development, as reported in 'The > Observer' (London) on 26 March under the headline: > > "Mind virus could give us shopping bug" > > Synopsis: > By luring people to play various games on the internet (typically > word-association type tasks) Brand Genetics hopes to be able to determine > the types of advertising that an individual will be most susceptible to. > This information will be sold to companies who will use it to create a > product that is branded and packaged in such a way that the consumer will > find it irresistable. Psychologist Paul Marsed (of Brand Genetics) claims > it will be able to help businesses trigger shopping crazes for their > products. It is suggested that a the consumers' enthusiasm for something > that fits so well with their own mindset so well can go on to create a > social pandemic, "People are drawn to mimic the behaviour of others" adds > Marsden. Successful 'brands' can easily be 'cloned' and 'genetically > modified' - tweaked in one small area so the brand fits into the mindset of > a new target. Demand for the service is so great that Brand Genetics > already has a multi-million pound turnover. > ----- > > DG relevent questions that arise include: > 1. The origin of this technology. This science is based on an advanced > understanding of how certain aspects of our minds become active in response > to certain concepts. It is not impossible that the Mi-Go have mapped this > stimulus-response pattern extensively in their efforts to understand the > unbounded nature of the human intellect. If the knowledge required to > develop the system is extra-terrestrial, exposure to such technologies could > have implications for the mental-health of the entire populace. > > 2. Applications. The ability to start a 'social pandemic' is clearly of > great interest to any number of groups that may wish to alter society at a > level beyond the individual. At least one group (The Cult of Transcendence) > has this as its explicit goal. > > The experiences of other agents may well suggest other uses/misuses and > implications. > > -- > Stephen Allison > sallison@netcomuk.co.uk From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Theme Song Thank you. It was originally intended for a horror universe I was writing called Conspiracy Practice. The idea was the usual secret organization fighting against evil, but with a deeper look at how such a secret organization would actually run. One of the twists was that Agents had to collect all of their urine, feces, vomit, semen and menstrual blood to be used in Agency's various magical rituals. The Agents themselves had been artificially enhanced to be smarter, faster and stronger than normal--but at the cost of royally screwing up their biological clocks. Instead of sleeping for 6 to eight hours a night, Agents stayed up for a hundred hours straight and then fell asleep for twenty. Their hunger ran on a similiar track. My favorite part of all was that saving the world got very expensive: in order to pay for it, Agency fictionalized its adventures and sold them as movies, novels, comic books, etc. That's how we got Aliens, H.P. Lovecraft, the X-files and It's a Wonderful Life. Needless to say, it was weird. Andy Robertson wrote: > From: Michael Beck > To: > Subject: DG: Theme Song > > I think it's very good. Makes me wish you could make it - I mean for > "video streamer" or whatever they call the online thingy - and put it on the > site. > > The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Mystery cancers in Iraq An article by John Pilger touching on the current pandemics in Iraq. Kind of the flip-side of Gulf War Syndrome? http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/Iraq/pilger.htm Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: On Gates and similar matters >From: The Man in Black >On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, William Timmins wrote: > > > The 'normal' Gate listed in the book does not limit speed. I seem to >recall > > trips of many lightyears, from various stories, going at signification > > multiples of c if not instantaneous, and so forth. > >You are still confused. Gates do not teleport. You can see the other side. >You walk through at about 1mph. You walk out at 1mph. Teleportation is >instant travel from one place to another, completely seperate, place. >Gates allow two places (however far apart) to be linked as one. When I >walk though a door I do not exceed c. When I walk through a Gate I do not >exceed c. I hope this clears things up. > >The Man in Black is : Kenneth Scroggins Hmm. Well, you misunderstood me, I think, but your comment brings up some interesting points. First of all, no matter how you go from A to B instantly, it's FTL so long as space-time is unchanged. Whether it's some hyperspatial bridge, an information-transmitter, or what, instant travel has causality problems. (It's not instantaneous to others, etc etc etc) There are also some aspects of Gates that suggest it 'sends' characters, notably the MP cost. Regardless, the colocational comment brings up another point. Theoretically, points in space COULD be pulled together. Now I expect such an effect would propogate, at most, at light speed, but let's ignore that. Points in space pulled together would, normally, have some rather ... bad aspects. You'd have to construct massive, shaped gravitational fields that would likely rip apart anything nearby. But let's assume that you can make a Gate that is a big, kind device that can help someone jump through massive tidal forces unharmed, transport them through a line of warped space smaller than the size of a particle, and spit them out, unharmed, somewhere else. With super super super handwavy science, this is possible, although you might get some nifty side effects. (Maybe slight gravitational weirdness around the edges of the gate, or weirdly shifting light, a glow, etc) Personally, I would assume that Gates are generally maintained/composed of Outer Gods, like Yog-Sothoth. Creating a Gate would then be a very specific sort of summoning, or, perhaps, causing an 'irritation' that the being solves by creating a Gate. Or something. Anyhow, Gates that are actually warps in space-time solve a lot of causal problems because, as the esteemed Black on Man states, the distance between ends of a Gate is... 0. However, you do get OTHER cuteness. By linking spacetime this way, you essentially pull EVERYTHING, the entire universe, into a new shape. Remember lightcones? One definition of a lightcone is that the forward cone (everything 'above' in time-space within lightspeed left and right) is potentially affected by the observer. Everything 'behind' in time can potentially affect the observer. Anything 'outside' the forward and backward sweep of lightcones doesn't exist, in any way shape or form, to that observer. Since it is impossible for anything outside the lightcones to propogate an effect to the observer, they don't exist. Relatively speaking. Now, in normal spacetime, lightcones are simple. In the next year, the 'you' of this instant could possibly affect anything within one lightyear. The 'you-now' exists, after one year, to everything within a lightyear. Going backward, things a lightyear away don't exist after a year ago. A planetoid 1 lightyear away could have exploded 6 months ago, but it hasn't happened as far as you know. Simple, yeah, but everything in the universe is tied by this simple distance/time thing. It's linear. However, once you start pulling far apart locations together, you start really screwing up the neighborhood. Lightcones become spotty. Events near Earth might propogate to another galaxy in a year. And so forth. And, keep in mind that GRAVITY should transmit via Gateways. Gravitational potentials are going to be spreading in all sorts of weird ways, causing, perhaps, observably off orbits. Why is this at all interesting? It does some weird things with physics, but it's more fun to consider Mythos sorts of things. Perhaps rampant Gate creation can change the fabric of space and make it more hostile to us/comfortable to others. Perhaps specific alterations of the fabric of spacetime can be set up to create some sort of weird secondary Mythos effect (stars are right???). Perhaps Gates are taught to humans so they can spend their energies helping one being, or hurting another. In a game which heavily mentions the multidimensional nature of other beings and the universe, this all becomes highly relevant. Perhaps Cthulhu 'tumbled' here, found spacetime too flat to be comfortable, and set up affairs so he could rest until spacetime got groovy again. Anyway, there you go... -=Will ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Intelligence >From: Steven Kaye >The cultural definition of SAN's been batted around some on this >list, but it might be amusing to have agents forced to deal with >someone like R.D. Laing or Thomas Szasz (sp?). > >An interesting support function for DG could be 'Mythos psychology' - >though there are obvious methodological problems ("The Shambler keeps >teleporting out of the Skinner Box! And that's the fifth lab >assistant we've lost this week!"), to say nothing of >over-identification with the subject. > >The Tcho-Tcho in Derleth's original story, for example, don't fear >guns - because they're outside their experience, so they don't >associate guns with death (even after they know several of their >tribe have been killed by such things). Various Mythos creatures >might have instinctive behavior which could be taken advantage of by >especially brave agents. > >One could invoke neurolinguistic programming to offer a >pseudo-scientific rationale for tomes costing SAN - they're imposing >a foreign concept set on the readers. Anyone with linguistics >background care to comment further on this? > >Steven I've been considering the various aspects of Sanity for years. I propose a new handling of Sanity rules in my Endtimes project (in http://wtimmins.tripod.com/DG/endtime/etrules.html, near the end) Basically, I see sanity as being divided into two, very different aspects. Sanity's basic purpose is survival. A sane person engages in behavior and chooses decisions that promote survival. An insane person engages in behavior and choices that, well, don't. Now, before people start with the 'so altruism is insanity?' sort of thing, note that survival is not synonymous with INDIVIDUAL survival. Altruism, sacrifice, even some of the odd quirks and mistakes we make in our decisions and choices, most have dramatically successful results in promoting group survival. Whether the immediate family or the species as a whole, we have an enormous list of traits which, taken at a large scale, promote survival. Even dangerous and criminal behaviors can be defined as helpful to the group, in limited amounts. Chaos and order, in dynamic shifting balance, can be very helpful to a group. Granted, the specifics can be argued. So... insanity? Insanity hurts survival. Some will label, as insane, others who don't support the same scale of survival as themselves. A person who is selfish and looks out only for himself may be seen as insane... but as long as that person's results match what he is trying to achieve, that person should be considered sane. What level of survival is 'important' is axiomatic. Some will label, as insane, people who are different or quirky. I don't think I need to expound on that point. So, to sum up, there is a spectrum of sanity, depending on scale, but it's mainly about survival. In my trait system, I divide sanity into Survival (that is, personal survival) and Humanity (that is, sociability and cultural belief). So I have Mythos score limit Humanity, and not survival. This allows 'insane' sorcerers and races to have Survival, but not Humanity. They can work together for common goals, but from a very mercenary viewpoint. Regarding 'Mythos psychology', this model allows Mythos races to have something like Humanity (like I do with Dimensional Shamblers), but these should likewise be limited by Mythos score. I would make the philosophical argument that knowledge of Reality and the Mythos is detrimental to Humanity and feelings of group survival because, at its root, the knowledge corrodes group identity, any hope of group survival, and any hope of meaning in the universe. Hmm. This would suggest that most cultural/group survival is based on delusional beliefs in 'meaning' of some sort. That could be interesting. Also would be interesting to see what sort of meaning other races believe in. Perhaps the Elder Race just succumbed to loss of their version of Humanity, as a group. Oh, regarding Tomes... I think any book which requires you to think like a madman and to creatively come to realize the nature of the (Lovecraftian) universe, plus the stress of focusing so intently on that understanding, justifies the SAN loss. Personally, I'd levy SAN loss for all sorts of things. Studying for BAR exams, frex. -=Will ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Joab Ben Stieglitz [stieg@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: Tradecraft goodies I found the camera in the sunglasses that could be remotely connected to a recorder such that it records everything the wearer sees was pretty neat. -----Original Message----- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com [mailto:owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com]On Behalf Of Jonathan Turner Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 2:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Tradecraft goodies This site is a useful source of goodies for DG agents. And I'll even remember the URL this time! www.spyzone.com My particular favourite is the camera hidden inside a car aerial. Park the car, bugger off and pan and scan by remote. http://www.spyzone.com/catalog/videosurveillance/ae-62.html Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Purple Kat [kringskeep@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:45 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Illuminati On this subject,,, A friend of mine had to sell his van with all of his precious bumperstickers on it. He has replaced all but a few. The ones he can't find are: A sticker with the Illuminati pyramid on it with the words (or something close) "Illuminati someone you know is one of us" Also he needs "Cuthulu loves you" [Please don't yell at the spelling my skill is in taking apart safes & infiltrating Secret Volcano Bases(tm). If you wanted a speller ask the Flying Dutchman.] Anyway, since my friend is e-mail unknown I said I would steal... er FIND yea, yea,yea, find him some replacements. Purple Kat Flying Dutchman, the wallpaper in your Secret Communications Room is old and stained, if you like I'll replace it for you. hehehehehehe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Tradecraft goodies At 04:37 PM 3/26/00 -0500, you wrote: >I found the camera in the sunglasses that could be remotely connected to a >recorder such that it records everything the wearer sees was pretty neat. > True Lies, eh? Good site, I thought. My players will be glad I found it, at any rate... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 3:12 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: A new mythos tome I was in the bookstore today, and a copy of the Necromonicon caught my eye. It was the usual cheesy Lovecraft takeoff, but it sparked this idea. Necronomicon: Mass market edition Study time: One day Mythos Gain-will *reduce* Mythos score by 1D6 percent, but only on first reading. SAN Loss: 1D6/1D10 Even during its official existence, DG was overworked and underfunded. MJ-12 never really had problems with limited resources--- alien technology was something high-ranking military and intelligence officials could be very afraid of, and like most people at those ranks they tried to allay their fears by throwing money at them. Eventually those monies were supplemented by the importation of illegal drugs to the US--today Majestic doesn't even need it's black budget to continue it's operations, and most of the money sticks in the pockets of various underlings. The Steering Committee prefers blackmailable underlings to honest ones. However, it's very hard to convince people without direct experience with the Mythos that a bunch of primitive tribesmen drawing sigils is a major threat to national security. The few who had such experience were either cultists themselves or, occasionally, investigators who preferred to keep the government out of their way. As a result, Delta Green was forced to get creative. The system of Friendlies was instituted to solve the manpower problem, and funding was largely supplied by accounting tricks that would set the IRS foaming at the mouth. In fact it did--the financial irregularities of Delta Green's records were a major contributing factor to its final disbanding. When Delta Green was reorganized after the Waco Incident, A-Cell realized that it needed a great deal of money to set up the system it desired. The usual accounting tricks are used, and a standard part of ops is to loot the bank accounts and possessions of cultists. One of the more creative attempts was the Mass Market Necromonicon. The book, a staple at many occult bookstores, draws upon Delta Greens hard-won knowledge of the Mythos-but it's just a little bit off. It describes a series of rituals to be enacted to gain contact with and power from the Great Old Ones. All but the most "powerful" of the rituals described are pure fiction, and will do nothing. There are a few actual spells contained in the book--but they have been modified so that anyone doing them with die rather horribly. It's a very well written book and extremely disturbing book, thus the SAN loss. The MMN has more than met A-Cells expectations. It has generated some much needed funds, discredited the idea of alien gods with incredible power in the occult community, and many of those desperate or desirous enough to truly seek the power of the Mythos have died. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Depleted Uranium This is often blamed on DU, but I have a feeling that these cancers are more likely of chemical source and that DU is actually pretty safe radiologically. Anyone know for sure how dangerous it is? (Not that it undermines the thrust of Pilger's article one way or the other). The Glove Cleaner ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Turner > An article by John Pilger touching on the current pandemics in Iraq. Kind > of the flip-side of Gulf War Syndrome? > > http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/Iraq/pilger.htm > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Illuminati If all else fails Pegasus makes them to order. Phil On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:45:29 EST "Purple Kat" writes: > On this subject,,, > > A friend of mine had to sell his van with all of his precious > bumperstickers > on it. He has replaced all but a few. The ones he can't find are: > > A sticker with the Illuminati pyramid on it with the words (or > something > close) "Illuminati someone you know is one of us" > > Also he needs "Cuthulu loves you" [Please don't yell at the > spelling my > skill is in taking apart safes & infiltrating Secret Volcano > Bases(tm). If > you wanted a speller ask the Flying Dutchman.] > > Anyway, since my friend is e-mail unknown I said I would steal... er > FIND > yea, yea,yea, find him some replacements. > > Purple Kat > > Flying Dutchman, the wallpaper in your Secret Communications Room > is > old and stained, if you like I'll replace it for you. hehehehehehe > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Depleted Uranium At 11:08 PM 3/26/00 +0100, you wrote: >This is often blamed on DU, but I have a feeling that these cancers are more >likely of chemical source and that DU is actually pretty safe >radiologically. > >Anyone know for sure how dangerous it is? > >(Not that it undermines the thrust of Pilger's article one way or the >other). > > There was a long discussion about this a while back, wasn't there? And everyone seemed to think it was actually pretty safe because it was technically inert. But I know I wouldn't want to be breathing it in. When you say these cancers are more likely to be caused by chemicals, what substances do you mean? JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:22 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Police resource www.officer.com Lots of links to police forces all over the US of A, including many special units like SWAT, EOD, etc... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: On Gates and similar matters from: William Timmins To: > Perhaps rampant Gate creation can change the fabric of space and make it > more hostile to us/comfortable to others. Perhaps specific alterations of > the fabric of spacetime can be set up to create some sort of weird secondary > Mythos effect (stars are right???). Perhaps Gates are taught to humans so > they can spend their energies helping one being, or hurting another. Dyson and the eschatalogical science / Doomsday theorem crowd claim that universes can "reproduce" in this way - the fertile ones, which permit life, eventually generate enough tech to jazz their spacetime up to the level where new universes pinch off. On another subject, click on this link for a laugh, Mr T. http://www.theophys.kth.se/%7Emax/toe.html The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 4:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Depleted Uranium ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Turner > When you say these cancers are more likely to be caused by chemicals, what > substances do you mean? > Virtually any stress can make cancer more likely including disease, starvation, bruising and heartbreak, but AAMAF I was thinking of oil-related pollution and industrial chemical pollution following the war, not explicitly war-weapon related chemicals (if that's what you mean). Lots of carcinogens in crude. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 5:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Depleted Uranium At 11:49 PM 3/26/00 +0100, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jonathan Turner >Virtually any stress can make cancer more likely including disease, >starvation, bruising and heartbreak, but AAMAF I was thinking of oil-related >pollution and industrial chemical pollution following the war, not >explicitly war-weapon related chemicals (if that's what you mean). Lots of >carcinogens in crude. > The damage to the Iraqi infrastructure during the war has also created a lot of industrial pollution... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mintarr@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 6:30 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: DARPA Exoskeletons > This will be interesting. It's generally accepted that biological limbs are > about 10 times stronger and more robust than artifical ones - at the moment. Although, and I'll admit this was a while back so my memory is a bit fuzzy, I remember reading about fairly successful work being done on something quite similar to the monomers in Battletech. Joel From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mintarr@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 6:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mind virus warning This sort of thing has been around for a long time. Its what advertisement today is already based on. Hell, its even the sort of thing good programmers take into account when writing user interfaces. Joel