From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 11:39 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mi-Go Deviousness In a message dated 3/31/00 9:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: << At any stage, someone may be wrong, or have a bad memory, or may be feeding us disinformation. Something to bear in mind when dealing with DG-related conspiracies. >> Something to bear in mind when dealing with any conspiracy. That's the punchline at the end of the Illuminatus Trilogy's shaggy Lloigor story. Speaking of untrustworthy testimony, I just reread Masks of the Illuminati by You-know-who. In addition to the idea of a mystery involving Aleister Crowley being investigated by Albert Einstein and James Joyce (which is already worth the price of admission), there is a plot element very VERY germane to the discussion of Mi-Go possibly getting their strategems from pulps. And *Chambers'* King in Yellow figures prominently. Mark McFadden Next up: The Order of the Garter: predecessor of Pisces? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 2:36 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Order of the Garter The Order of Saint George is the highest knightly order in Great Britain. Commonly known as the Order of the Garter, which adds that touch of genderbending and cross-dressing so essential to a British conspiracy. Originated with Edward III in 1344 with the motto: Honi soit qui mal y pense (Evil to him who evil thinks of it) The official story is that the Countess of Salisbury dropped her garter at a dance, when someone laughed at her, the King picked it up, put it on his own leg and said "Honi soit qui mal y pense" Hmmm. She dropped her garter, someone laughed so the King made a comment and a knightly Order. Nope, I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing that blue garter dropping off the Countess' leg as a real faux pas with other dancers stopping in their tracks and courtiers trying not to stare and this big silence broken by a dropped glass. So *the King himself* steps into the breach, picks up the offending object, *places it on the royal leg" and dares everybody to say something - anything. Anyone? Anyone? Sir Bueller? I'm seeing Ian McKellen. Or, I don't know...Al Pacino? They both played Richard III. Nah, too dark. Kenneth Branagh, that's the ticket. Kevin Kline? Ooooo, Mel Gibson. I think we've got a package people. Someone hot for the Countess. What's Gwynneth doing? Blue garters at Taco Bell! We're so happy we can hardly count. And on the basis of this occurence at the dance, he immediately created the Order of Saint George. The OOSG was the Big Frat On Campus (among the Greeks they would be Alpha Alpha Alpha) among the knightly orders from the git-go. It wasn't ancient and respected with tradition lending it respect and deference. It was declared top dog at it's creation and the King chose the membership by hand and bankrolled it to a hefty fare-thee-well. The King is the head of the Order of Saint George and don't you forget it. I don't think he could have done what he did as fast as he did without putting scores of noses seriously out of joint. This bold and decisive show of power was a dominance display that worked. He let them know he loved them all equally, but some more equally than others - and it was a private club. And BTW, don't even THINK of accusing the Countess of Salisbury of anything because she's our house mother. That's why we all wear blue garters. The blue garter was commemorated in the Coat of Arms for the order. It includes a dark blue garter with a gold buckle, and 26 gold garters pendant from the collar above it. And the motto "Evil to him who evil thinks of it." Blue garters. That dropped garter was a bombshell, but why? Would a ladies frillies dropping from under her dress be a reputation-shattering event at the time? Couldn't the King just pick it up, hand it back, look around and say "What are *you* looking at?" and tell the band to play a rhumba? I have to tell you that I honestly do not know at the moment, I just know what I read in a book oncest. But it just doesn't feel right. I feel the scandal was the fact that it was a *blue* garter, and oh yeah, maybe because it was the Countess of Salisbury. Apparently, the blue garter was the insignia of the Queen of the Witches in those days of 1344. Which means that (ahem) the Countess of *Salisbury* was in danger of being (wait for it) burned at the steak! Ba dum ching! When the King placed it on his own thigh while saying "Evil to him who evil thinks of it" he was telling them that they would have to denounce *him* to the Inquisition if they denounced her. He let them chew on that, then he showed them why it's good to be the King. He can give the orders and he can make or break the Orders. He must have really liked her. So why the 26 gold garters hanging from the Coat of Arms? First of all, it's 3 too many so it better be good. Well, there are 26 members of the Order, max. Yeah, but why 26 when we were *so close*? Numbers = Kabbalah whenever we're talking about this sort of thing, so let's see what the good rabbi has for us. Bingo! 26 contains Yod=10, He=5, Vau=6, He=5. I don't neeed to buy a vowel, that's my main man YHVH. We're like > I don't want to hammer this into the ground or anything, but I am interested >in cartoons as meme vectors, so I'd like to know: > >a) which Merkin cartoons are big elsewhere OK, I bite. Right now? South Park (which I find supremely stupid), the Simpsons (good in small doses), Animaniacs (the most brainless waste of badwidth in the world). All three series arrived with extreme hype on the part of the network offering them, and are very much the 'trendy' choice for teenagers. There's more about this but I'll cover it later. Kids of any age go for the recent Batman series or the Flintstones, and for Warner cartoons - yes, Bugs Bunny and the lot. Admitting it in public is considered a social suicide for those in the thirteen-twenty age bracket. There's also a lot of Disney stuff on saturday afternoon/sunday morning, but it's (apparently) very popular only with pre-teens. >b) what non-anime (which, face it, is a thread unto itself) cartoons were a >part of growing up elsewhere I grew up on a steady diet of cartoons including Scooby Doo first and foremost, the old Johnny Quest series, way old Popeye the Sailor and Tom&Jerry shorts and the whole Warner and Hanna&Barbera back catalogue. It is important to notice that in the mid '80s, as part of the anti-anime backlash started by the classic 'anime induce teenage suicides' arguments, an awful lot of american cartoons were deleted because they were diseducative, violent or excessively sexy (!). Along with most anime, this saw the end of Popeye and much Tom&Jerry (too violent), Scooby Doo (too scary), all the old Tex Avery stuff with sexy takes on Little Red Riding Hood (are you joking?), and a lot of the rest. Interim '80s series like Real Ghostbusters and He-man also had to bite the dust for the same reasons. Which makes the introduction of things like South Park or Animaniacs even more ridiculous (or suspect, depending on your politics). > and yes indeedy do, it will all be tied into a grand fully DG compliant >meditation on sex, fnord, and getting to them while they're young to lay the >foundation for the future. You are about to open an awful can of worms. My personal observation: in recent series, sex is more blatantly exploited, and intelligence is generally ridiculed. Not good. Teenagers today are incredibly dull. > Now back to your previously streaming tentacle sex hentai program. Again hentai tentacle sex! Can't we have just an old Gundam rerun instead? Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mi-Go Deviousness > I've found this thread fascinating, but of course no one's brought > up the > other possibility from "Whisperer" - that the mi-go themselves are > merely a fabrication created by a person or persons for reasons > unknown. Perhaps the entire Mythos was created by MJ-12 to keep meddlesome people out of their way while they negotiated with the Greys. Come on guys, you can over-think this stuff, ya know. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust In a message dated 4/1/00 3:46:22 AM Central Standard Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: > Animaniacs (the most brainless waste of badwidth in the world). Gotta take issue with you on this one. I happen to find Animaniacs very funny---maybe it's due to my third-rate mind and my second-class sense of humor, though. Groo, it's late here. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:52 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mi-Go Deviousness In an ephiphanous missive dated 4/1/00 3:51:26 AM Central Standard Time, forvalaka@juno.com reminded us: > Come on guys, you can over-think this stuff, ya know. Thank you. Someone had to say it. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:59 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: RE: Mi-Go deviousness So, Mr Noyes - what was your granddaddy doing in 1928? Anywhere near Vermont? We need to know. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Farnell > You certainly do. I read this message three times trying to figure out > Yes, before you were born. "The Whisperer in Darkness" has a minor character > named Noyes, From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:03 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust Duh. Flintstones. Johnny Quest. Deputy Dawg. Scooby-do. Whacky races. UK 1966-76ish. Not much "classic" animation and not much really good stuff. And AFAIK cartoons are considered naff by todays UK young. Anticipating DG bits The Glove Cleaner. ----- Original Message ----- From: > b) what non-anime (which, face it, is a thread unto itself) cartoons were a > part of growing up elsewhere From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:16 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust We'd never have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for those meddling kids!!! Actual quote heard at the conclusion of a Conspiracy X adventure. Andy Robertson wrote: > Duh. Flintstones. Johnny Quest. Deputy Dawg. Scooby-do. Whacky races. > UK 1966-76ish. > > Not much "classic" animation and not much really good stuff. And AFAIK > cartoons are considered naff by todays UK young. > > Anticipating DG bits > > The Glove Cleaner. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > b) what non-anime (which, face it, is a thread unto itself) cartoons were > a > > part of growing up elsewhere From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: quantum teleportation ----- Original Message ----- From: David Farnell > One of the feature articles of the latest Scientific American (April 2000) > is on a topic so hotly discussed here a few days back: quantum > teleportation. As Will correctly stated a few days back we can only teleport photons at the moment. However in principle it can work with any well defined quantum system. (in practice? well. . . .) One interesting thing about QT is that, though it can be used to _transmit_ an unknown quantum state over long distances, it can't be used to _copy_ that state. If the quantum state is transmitted to the receiving end, it is _necessarily_ destroyed at the transmission end. This makes me think furiously about the possible quantum nature of consciousness and our old friend Yithian mind transfer. (sorry but the Y do interest me a lot) I mean, why don't the Yithians increase their population a million fold by copying their minds into every potentially sentient being in the galaxy? Wouldn't that be a good move? Possibly because you can't _copy_ consciousness? Because it's a delicately organised quantum system and it can be transmitted, by Quantum Teleportation, but not copied? If we got our hands on one of those Yithian mind transfer devices I bet we could get an answer to this in short order. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Noyes [ft203004@fsinet.or.jp] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: Re: RE: Mi-Go deviousness >So, Mr Noyes - what was your granddaddy doing in 1928? Anywhere near >Vermont? We need to know. Well, actually, the Noyes's hail from New England -- my part of the family is now in Missouri -- which is probably how the name ended up in an HPL story. Amusingly, my kin in New England did once have a brush with the occult: Rev. Noyes was one of the people responsible for hanging the Salem witches, and we are supposed to be from his line of the family. He did say that he regretted doing it afterward. I'm sure that made the supposed witches feel much better. Oh, much later, in the 19th century, a later Reverand Noyes started his own utopian cult. Of course, IIRC it was one of those "Sixteen year old women should marry the patriarchs of the cult" type societies, but there you go. Jay From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Noyes [ft203004@fsinet.or.jp] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: RE: Mi-Go deviousness > was going on. Did someone take my name in vain and use it in a story? >Yes, before you were born. "The Whisperer in Darkness" has a minor character >named Noyes, who poses as Akely's friend, but in reality is a cultist/agent >of the Mi-Go, or perhaps part of a Nyarlathotep cult just working with the I'll be damned. I knew that, but had forgotten completely about it. Thanks for reminding me. Hmm. Nice to know the family has connections when the balloon goes up. Jay From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Tolga Yanasik [yanasikt@superonline.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Children of Shugoran While I was skimming Countdown, I realized that there wasn't any description of Children of Shugoran. Or was there ? Anyway I created my own description. But first there's a short story ; ---------------------------------- It's been three days since we lost Derek. His wife told us that he went after a phone call in the middle of the night. I know it was about this new drug on the street and some thugs who call themselves White Shadows. Now I'm waiting patiently behind a crate in a crumbling warehose. Waiting for a trade to take place before my eyes. Then I heard that sound again. It was like something dropped onto the ground, something like a bone rattled once or twice, scratched the floor and then silence. I crawled a bit and found another crate to hide behind. Now I can see the mouth of a corridor, illuminated slightly by the street lamps peering from the windows up on the walls. Something which reminded me of bones clattered on the floor and a man appeared in the mouth of the corridor. Yet, there was something strange about the posture of the man. It seems like he was hovering above the ground while dragging his legs on the floor. He moved forward by first rising up and then down with a movement like falling. He moved into the light. He turned his pale face to my way, opened his mouth wide with a silent moan, eyes moving frantically. Then I saw something very much like a bone glistening and spiky protruding from left side of the man's neck. As my eyes followed down, the thing moved and dragged the man like a puppet. It entered from under the man's right lung. There was more of it hiding in the darkness of the corridor. Rest of the thing came into the light. It was like a huge spider walking on many thin and spiky limbs making the sounds I heard before. The limbs ended at the center mass which was the body of another man. Two limbs have grown at his both arm pits, several limbs have emerged from his groin. His useless arms and legs were flailing on their own with the movement of the bony limbs. On one of those limbs was the penetrated man I first saw. The thing came for me. Spiny, bone like limbs hit the stone floor, scratched walls and knocked over crates while bodies silently lamented with gaping mouths. Then it stopped. Just a step before me. It moved the first man into my view. Just after the man vomitted blood and phlegm over me, recognition snapped something in my brain. Now, I'm hiding in a waste bin in an alley I don't know, many blocks away from that warehouse. Still squeezing the trigger of the empty MP5. I remember clearly. The man was raised over me. Muted words moving his blood covered lips. Then I recognized him. He was Derek. -------------------------- I hope you enjoyed this very short story which will remain forever so because of my laziness and please forgive my English. I'm working on a campaign which can be summarized as Deep Ones with the help of a Cthulhu cult creates a drug which will convert humans into Deep Ones. The drug is processed after a substance which is extracted from a kind of deep sea spider. These spiders are now grown in a fish farm owned by a Brazilian front company. Then spider eggs are placed in the body cavities of some people and they're transferred to USA. Of course American side of this conspiracy finds the operation of taking out the eggs costly, they simply left the poor people to the mercy of hatching spiders. But when I decided to integrate Tiger Transit into this campaign, a new hope emerged for these doomed people. Some of them who are evaluated worthy would be honored by Shugoran. Also I replaced Liao drug with the drug of Deep Ones. Thus Shugoran created its children from these people. And children of Shugoran prefers to carry their victims with them who now became undeads like the child itself, so that they can share this awful existence and loneliness. To kill a Child of Shugoran, one must spot and destroy the host body among the the victims. The victims when seperated from the Child or the Child is killed die instantly. Tolga From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Velma Velma? Well, I'm glad that while you guys are scrapping over her, I can move in on Daphne... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: quantum teleportation Greetings. I was almost forgetting! Thankfully, our resident Glove Cleaner disseminated the following.... >As Will correctly stated a few days back we can only teleport photons at the >moment. However in principle it can work with any well defined quantum >system. (in practice? well. . . .) Who knows? OK, weird bit of the week. Three nights ago I attended an 'orientation seminar' for the volunteers that will handle the crowd control side of the Holy Shroud exibition here in Turin this summer. [I posted about my involvement in the thing quite a while back]. As usual the evening went half with an overview of logistics and other practicalities, including, ironically, how to handle fanatics and weirdoes. After that, a short lecture was given by the director of the Shroud museum about the current status of the relic, and the informations that an observer can extract from the thing in the naked eye (as opposed to instrumental analisys). Interesting. A round of questions and answers followed, most centered on the most obvious mystery - to wit, how the heck a photographic negative of a human figure ended up impressed on the linen. So, while the museum head is going on about various working theories, a guy two rows in front of me asks for attention. Steel tipped boots, jeans, heavy-duty sailor's sweather, one of those arab headscarves (kefiah?) around the neck. He is with a young woman in an Emma Peel/Catwoman skintight black leather suit and a purple synthetic fur. She looks a bit.... unfocused. He is dutifully handed a mic and.... According to the guy, that is supposedly involved in a series of teleportation experiments with two teams of researchers in Genova and Florence, the image impression could well be the result of the body entering an alternate dimension through matter/energy conversion. Following the theories of G.A. Rol for an Einstein/Jung approach to reality perturbation, infact, the speaker and the two research teams have so far been able to partially de-materialize some objects and also to partially imagine into being some objects. He is pretty sure, he says, that the high-tachion emission observed during such a phenomenon could well cause phoytographic effects on a sheet like the Holy Shgroud. After all, he adds, it is plausible that after his death the man we know as Jesus Christ teleported to a nearby paralled dymension to invert the entropy effect affecting his material body before he returned to complete his task. After which, he gave the mic back and left the hall. I admit I was positively impressed by my fellow citizens, and the guy was not chased through the city streets with torches and pitchforks. On the other hand, saying the assembly was stunned is a big understatement. The museum guy was the first to regain his ability to speak and applied Occam's razor to what had just been exposed (embracing metaphisical theories would increase wildly the number of questions without providing a definite answer) and unwittingly applying the 'handling weirdoes' guidelines exposed a little earlier. And this is it. It was, believe me, an experience. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 6:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Velma Velma? Well, I'm glad that while you guys are scrapping over her, I can move in on Daphne... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jimmie Bise Jr [jimmiebjr@olg.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 8:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust > There's also a lot of Disney stuff on saturday afternoon/sunday morning, > but it's (apparently) very popular only with pre-teens. > I'd double what's on today with one notable exception that the Good DocDee didn't mention... Pokemon This particular cartoon has managed to infiltrate several age ranges and, form my observations, educational levels. In adults, there's no telling exactly who enjoys Pokemon, or finds it cute, or stays up for hours and hours playing their new Pokemon Nintendo game. Before it comes up. Yeah, I watch it when I'm home to do so. I like Bulbasaur. You have to give it up to a little sturdy frog- thing with a flower bulb on its back that can use something called a Vine-Whip Attack. > I grew up on a steady diet of cartoons including Scooby Doo first and > foremost, the old Johnny Quest series, way old Popeye the Sailor and > Tom&Jerry shorts and the whole Warner and Hanna&Barbera back catalogue. > Yep..I watched all of those, especially Jonny Quest and Scooby-Doo. I also recall a couple or three shows that, though only one of which was technically a cartoon, were the rage in my neck of the woods. There was Ultraman (and yeah, I cried both times he "died". Admit it, the sad music and the giant Ultraman coming to take the body of our hero home made you cry.), Johnny Sokko and his flying Robot (you mean I'm the only one who ran around as a kid yelling "Robot! Robot! into his watch?), and lastly, the only cartoon on this list, Kimba the white Lion. I don't know quite why I watched this last one. The little white lion was a bit of a wimp and got beat up pretty often, but always managed, WWF- style, to rise from the ground and give the bad guys a fearsoms smack-down. And there was none of this standing up and acting like a human. They fought teeth and claw, like you should! > Which makes the introduction of things like South Park or Animaniacs even > more ridiculous (or suspect, depending on your politics). > You know, though, Animaniacs does have its moments. Some of the new Warner stuff, like the Animaniacs and Pinky and the Brain do venture often into the realms of "Jokes Only Adults Will Get". the Animaniacs, for instance, have traveled to frolic with Sigmund Freud, Rasputin, Beethoven, and other notables, have spoofed Agatha Christie and Modern Movies, and other silliness that, quite honestly, would be beyond most kids. Then again, their songs truly are insipid and some of the episodes just aren't funny. > Again hentai tentacle sex! Bag that! Bring on Josie and the Pussycats! Meeeeeeow! -Jimmie ==================================== Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 9:50 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust Hello All, Mark wrote: > a) which Merkin cartoons are big elsewhere > b) what non-anime (which, face it, is a thread unto itself) cartoons > were a part of growing up elsewhere I always liked "Stop the Pigeon", Clunk could no doubt come up with something to do the job of those microlights everyones on about. Then there was (UK specific I think) Mr. Benn (about to be made into a movie with ohhh whats his name? umm the one who played the partner of the scotsman in 4 Weddings and a funeral whose funeral it was. Also Rhubarb and Custard, a slightly surreal cartoon about a dog. Then there eas (don't start me on cartoons ;-) Later Rob "make mine Velma" Thomas From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jeff Ewing [ambjpe@gis.net] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: sing baby sing like a bird LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > > In addition to controlled addiction for interrogation motive, I got thinking > about some of the really unpleasant but non-damaging sensations that can be > triggered with drugs. Or without. Here's something that occurred to me, but I've never heard of in use: I recall reading a Time/Life on perception as a kid and seeing a diagram about heat and cold sensors in your skin. There was an experiment which showed that if you grip a pipe that has cold water running through it, you naturally experience it as cold. If you grip one with warm water running through it, you experience it as warm. However, if you grip two pipes that have been twisted together with warm and cold runnning water, you experience it as hot. It seems to me that you could probably adjust the water temperature to where it was what my judo instructor used to call "somewhat uncomfortable", duct tape the unfortunate victim's hands in place, and Wala, discomfort without damage or scarring for as long as you have electricity to heat and pump the water. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of biology would care to care to comment? Jeff From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:23 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Shroud ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > Three nights ago I attended an 'orientation seminar' for the volunteers > that will handle the crowd control side of the Holy Shroud exibition here > in Turin this summer. I remember 'way back in the early 80's checking out the Catholic claims about the Shroud. I'm fairly sure this will have been discussed on list but apparently they claim 1) it records an anatomically accurate crucifixion (nails through wrist bones, not palm) 2) it isn't painted. I always thought the image might have been imprinted by chemical reactions with the sweat of a human body. Of course, the whole thing is a locus of infinite loony speculation. But Cosmic Energy? More likely ammonia. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steven Kaye [box_nine@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mi-Go Deviousness At 4:52 AM -0500 4/1/00, EdDrWho@aol.com wrote: >In an ephiphanous missive dated 4/1/00 3:51:26 AM Central Standard Time, >forvalaka@juno.com reminded us: > > > Come on guys, you can over-think this stuff, ya know. > >Thank you. Someone had to say it. Really? Why? Because it contradicts the sourcebook? Steven ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.netcom.com Reason - rationality - is a concentration camp, where the sets of concepts for surviving in a chaotic universe form vast, though finite, rows of huts, separated into blocks by electric fences, which the searchlights of Attention rove over, picking out now one group of huts, now another. Thoughts, like prisoners - imprisoned for their own security and safety - scurry and march and labour in a flat two-dimensional zone, forbidden to leap fences, gunned down by laser beams of madness and unreason if they try to. Ian Watson, THE EMBEDDING From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Order of the Garter Correction: 1348, not 1344, which either means the date was wrong or (more likely) the dance was in 1344 and it took four years to put together a coalition to impose a New Order. Okay, so we keep the feel of white-hot immediacy through a montage\music video (Carmina Burana or do we save that for the trailer?). This isn't George Thatch-, uh Bush putting together the Rainbow Coalition or whatever we called that dogpile on Iraq, this is Mel fucking Gibson giving the nobility a come-to-Jesus, so I want lots of fist pounding on tables and backlit shots of him silhouetted in doorways with people reacting and slamming down the teleph- uh, royal seal and then we'll come back to realtime with the signing or stamping of the parchment and we see how the gathering is obviously divided between the King and his favored 25 knights, and everyone else. Then the King addresses [everyone else] and says "Give us the room for a minute, will you?" and [everyone else] scurries out of Westminster Cathedral. Who the man? Found at http://www.royal.gov.uk/faq/honour3.htm : "The origin of the emblem of the Order, a blue garter, is obscure. It is said to have been inspired by an incident which took place whilst the King danced with Joan, Countess of Salisbury. The Countess's garter fell to the floor and after the King retrieved it he tied it to his own leg. Those watching this were apparently amused, but the King admonished them saying, 'Honi soit qui mal y pense' (Shame on him who thinks this evil). This then became the motto of the Order. Modern scholars think it is more likely that the Order was inspired by the strap used to attach pieces of armour, and that the motto could well have referred to critics of Edward's claim to the throne of France." Uh huh. It could happen. See, it isn't even a garter, it's an armor strap. Why is everyone focusing on garters when we're talking about claims to the throne of France? I'm sure glad those unnamed modern scholars used Occam's Razor to cut away all that conspiracy occult stuff and get to the simplest explanation for the incident. You see, obviously the King was taking the opportunity offered by the dropped garter to fire off a cryptic convoluted elliptical broadside in the direction of his critics and took four years to create an uber-Order to commemorate his bon mot. It's so obvious when you have experts to guide you. Incidentally, "Shame on him who thinks this evil" seems like a better translation of 'Honi soit qui mal y pense' to me than "Evil to him who evil thinks of it", but my Latin is sporadic at best. More from www.royal.gov.uk : "The Order, consisting of the King and twenty-five knights, was intended by Edward III to be reserved as the highest reward for loyalty and for military merit. Like The Prince of Wales (the Black Prince), the other founder-knights had all served in the French campaigns of the time, including the battle of Crécy - three were foreigners who had previously sworn allegiance to the English king: four of the knights were under the age of 20 and few were much over the age of 30." and "Since the early fourteenth century, foreign monarchs have been appointed to the Order, as a means of marking and securing alliances - one of the earliest such appointments was that of the Duke of Urbino by Edward IV in 1474. Such appointments were and are occasionally made to non-Christian rulers (for example, the Shah of Persia in 1902), which prompted some debate over removing Christian imagery (the cross of St George) from the Order when it is given to non-Christian recipients; in the end, the design remained unchanged. Foreign monarchs in the Order are known as 'Stranger Knights'. These knights are in addition to the number allowed by statute, and they include the kings of Spain and Sweden and the emperor of Japan." That's pretty much what I have so far. Mark McFadden Stranger knights? Stranger than what? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Edward III \ Order of the Garter I downloaded Edward III from Project Gutenberg and the lovely Countess plays a large role. Here's the first description of her: ACT I. SCENE II. Roxborough. Before the Castle. {much snipped. This is the first time Edward sees Joan, Countess of Salisbury. She was being held captive at her castle by King David and (the)Douglas, Edward arrived, they retreated, she's looked better.} [Enter Countess.] KING EDWARD. This is the Countess, Warwick, is it not? WARWICK. Even she, my liege; whose beauty tyrants fear, As a May blossom with pernicious winds, Hath sullied, withered, overcast, and done. KING EDWARD. Hath she been fairer, Warwick, than she is? WARWICK. My gracious King, fair is she not at all, If that her self were by to stain her self, As I have scene her when she was her self. KING EDWARD. What strange enchantment lurked in those her eyes, When they excelled this excellence they have, That now her dim decline hath power to draw My subject eyes from persing majesty, To gaze on her with doting admiration? {In other words, she's a stone cold fox now, what does she look like after a bath and a good nights sleep?} COUNTESS. In duty lower than the ground I kneel, And for my dull knees bow my feeling heart, To witness my obedience to your highness, With many millions of a subject's thanks For this your Royal presence, whose approach Hath driven war and danger from my gate. Ahem, while I wait for my heart to return to a reasonable beat and I try to get the image of fair Joan on her knees and feeling grateful (and obedient. Yes!) out of my head for awhile, let me demonstrate a really sophomoric sort of code searching I automatically do whenever I read "significant" passages in Shakespeare. Actually, I think the secret code is that Sweet William invented subliminal advertising ahead of his time. But, here it is: read the last word of each line in a stanza to get the meaning. Kneel, heart, highness, thanks, approach, gate. Or, just to get silly: Not fear, winds done. Is all Self, Self. Eyes have draw, majesty, admiration. Kneel Heart. Highness, thanks. Approach gate. I wonder which gate was in danger and which one is OK to approach? OK, I'm seeing kinda Dionysian\Celtic\pagan themes, so maybe some Enya and why not? private tatoos. Some of that sauna action from Tequila Sunrise in that candlelit hot tub in that Rutger Hauer \ Jennifer Jason Leigh bodice ripper? ObDG: your Honor, due to the complexity of the chain of alleged events, and the compulsive need of the defense to frame everything in his, uh, singular style, I need to ask the indulgence of the Court and ask that I be granted some small leeway as we lay a foundation. We are still in the Middle Ages, we have a ways to go. But after all that Shakespeare-ifying, here's a little something to mull over while I take a cold shower: From http://www.bartleby.com/215/1005.html "X. Plays of Uncertain Authorship Attributed to Shakespeare. Edward III. Of the historical plays attributed to Shakespeare, but not included in the first folio, the most important is Edward III. The conjecture that he had a hand in this play was not put forward during his lifetime, and rests entirely on internal evidence. Edward III was first published, anonymously, in 1596, and a second edition followed in 1599; but it was not until Capell re-edited the play in his Prolusions (1760) that the claim for Shakespearean authorship was seriously put forward." Mark McFadden OK, sit down. Are you sitting down? Countess, the new line from Victoria's Secret. All feature a blue garter. Different colors, but all coordinated with the blue garter. And this Queen of the Witches thing. Can we have Goth *and* Titania? Maybe we could work this sort of public / private theme. Good / naughty? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 11:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Family tree From: Noyes To: > Well, actually, the Noyes's hail from New England -- tell me more . . . . > Amusingly, my kin in New England did once have a brush with the > occult: Rev. Noyes was one of the people responsible for hanging the Salem > witches, and we are supposed to be from his line of the family. a Salem Witch Judge. What a coincidence. > Oh, much later, in the 19th century, a later Reverand Noyes started his own > utopian cult. Of course, IIRC it was one of those "Sixteen year old women > should marry the patriarchs of the cult" type societies, but there you go. and great-grandnuncle had a train of modest sweet biddable soft-eyed long-tressed white-throated handmaidens, for God's glory. Did he discover something new about God? One imagines far darker things than the ordinary powerplay of alpha males. After all, Noyes was a worshipper of SHUB-NIGGURATH, and that deity seems a natural end for the delusions of those binding themselves into a cult of sexual dominance. So please do tell me (if you don't find this investigation of your family tree offensive. Seriously) whether this "utopia" was rural or urban; whether it was in New England: and just what you think could have led the son, presumably, of a Reverend Noyes, to become a devotee of the Mi-Go and the Magna Mater? Agent, I'd KILL for a pedigree like yours!! The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 11:19 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: sing baby sing like a bird ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Ewing Subject: Re: DG: sing baby sing like a bird > LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > > > > In addition to controlled addiction for interrogation motive, I got thinking > > about some of the really unpleasant but non-damaging sensations > Yeah, heat and cold. Never forget, it's the little sensitive bits that hurt worst. FX - Slam two nuclei together at 99.9999% of light speed and generate a quark-gluon plasma. - Cool portions down to 0.00000001 K and see if you can make it all run together in a single spatially extended quantum state So now we're getting somewhere. "WHAT GEOMETRY, SUCKER? HYPERBOLIC OR SPHERICAL? OR FLAT? FLAT ISN'T IT? SO WHERE'S THE MISSING MASS?" We aren't getting anywhere here - pass me the Sombunal . . . . . "WHERE'S THE MISSING MASS? DOES IT HAVE TENTACLES?" The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 11:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Edward III \ Order of the Garter ----- Original Message ----- From: > > ObDG: your Honor, due to the complexity of the chain of alleged events, and > the compulsive need of the defense to frame everything in his, uh, singular > style, I need to ask the indulgence of the Court You've got it from me. I'm awed. I won't even mention the other derivation for "honi, soit qui mal y pense". "Honey, your silk stocking's hanging down" The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jimmie Bise Jr [jimmiebjr@olg.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 11:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Edward III \ Order of the Garter > I need to ask the indulgence of the Court > Speak on, King Lizard I! And while you're at it. I've a question. Why the Garter? Maybe you've been all over it, but why do garters pop up all over the place, from this order to the masons and so on? -Jimmie ==================================== Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Family tree Was he related to John Humphery Noyes who started theOneida community about 150 yeard later in upstate New York? Phil On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:05:40 +0100 "Andy Robertson" writes: > From: Noyes > To: > > > > Well, actually, the Noyes's hail from New England -- > > tell me more . . . . > > > > Amusingly, my kin in New England did once have a brush with the > > occult: Rev. Noyes was one of the people responsible for hanging > the Salem > > witches, and we are supposed to be from his line of the family. > > a Salem Witch Judge. What a coincidence. > > > > Oh, much later, in the 19th century, a later Reverand Noyes > started his > own > > utopian cult. Of course, IIRC it was one of those "Sixteen year > old women > > should marry the patriarchs of the cult" type societies, but there > you go. > > and great-grandnuncle had a train of modest sweet biddable soft-eyed > long-tressed white-throated handmaidens, for God's glory. > > > Did he discover something new about God? > > > > One imagines far darker things than the ordinary powerplay of alpha > males. > After all, Noyes was a worshipper of SHUB-NIGGURATH, and that deity > seems a > natural end for the delusions of those binding themselves into a > cult of > sexual dominance. > > So please do tell me (if you don't find this investigation of your > family > tree offensive. Seriously) whether this "utopia" was rural or urban; > whether > it was in New England: and just what you think could have led the > son, > presumably, of a Reverend Noyes, to become a devotee of the Mi-Go > and the > Magna Mater? > > > > Agent, I'd KILL for a pedigree like yours!! > > > > The Glove Cleaner > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Velma In a message dated 4/1/00 4:41:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, j.turner@irishnews.com writes: << Velma? Well, I'm glad that while you guys are scrapping over her, I can move in on Daphne... Jonathan >> Dude. Been there. Bimbo *and* frigid. Not one dynamo hum the entire time we were together, now that has got to tell you something. signed, Some guy who borrowed Mark McFadden's keyboard. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust In a message dated 4/1/00 6:54:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk writes: << I always liked "Stop the Pigeon", Clunk could no doubt come up with something to do the job of those microlights everyones on about. Then there was (UK specific I think) Mr. Benn snip Also Rhubarb and Custard, a slightly surreal cartoon about a dog. Then there eas (don't start me on cartoons ;-) >> I just noticed that you are the first I've read to mention any cartoons that aren't US product. Unless someone chimes in otherwise, I'm going to assume that Scooby Doo, Tom & Jerry, Warner Bros. classic, much Warner Bros. now, Disney, Popeye and some others are nearly universal. Also, most people who've commented so far think Velma's babeliscious. Since we have so much in common... linger on that phrase for awhile. People can take a 'tude about movies and TV can be a despised, but most people seem to like Scooby Doo. That was Eddie Izzard's observation in an HBO special. I'm not talking RW I don't think, but surely the scenarist is looking for the conspiracy. Do you see any common themes in them, some distinctive aspect that imprinted you, some parallel? What are the lessons they teach? In the DG world. Always always in the DG world. Now, what about local programming? Maybe not *your* favorites but the local cartoon show with the human host. What cartoons were on that show? Minor league US stuff or something homegrown? I'd love to hear some thumbnails of the things I've missed. What's this "Stop the Pigeon? Mark McFadden Silent quiz, meant to be a, uh. Anyhow, don't respond. After you got tricked into seeing the remake of The Haunting, in any scene with Catherine Zeta-Jones in spandex and Lili Taylor in saggy jeans and a shirt, who were you scoping out to whatever extent you were inspired to scope? Girls too, for whatever reason. Whoops, Catherine dropped something. Oh, Lili is reaching for it too. Now, was there hesitation to abandon the spectacularly revealed to check out the possibility of the hidden to be a bit more revealed, hinted at against tightened denim? No hesitation? Eyes didn't waver? Girls too, for whatever reason. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: sing baby sing like a bird In a message dated 4/1/00 8:21:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, ambjpe@gis.net writes: << snipped explanation of experiment with warm and cold water pipes and Wala, discomfort without damage or scarring for as long as you have electricity to heat and pump the water. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of biology would care to care to comment? >> The temperature stuff reminded me of the experiment conducted on a volunteer French condemned prisoner. The man was blindfolded and was given a superficial cut that he was convinced was an incision made to bleed him to death so doctors could observe the process. They trickled a constant stream of blood warm water off the "cut" and into a bowl so he could hear the splash. He died with all the symptoms of major blood loss. I read somewhere. How's that for an Outlook scenario? Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust In a message dated 4/1/00 1:51:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, someone writes: << > Animaniacs (the most brainless waste of badwidth in the world). Gotta take issue with you on this one. >> This is how OT threads start, this is that little dust devil that someone caught on video which turns into that double twister that rampaged through that trailer park that time would ..look , if it was like what you said there. So stop it. Mark McFadden Leading us on an OT Wild Hunt is *my* role around here. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 12:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Order of the Garter At 03:35 AM 4/1/00 EST, you wrote: You've managed to duplicate a significant portion of the back story for "Lammas Night", a 1983 novel by Katherine Kurtz. To simplify - a connection between witches and the British kings has existed since, at least, the Norman invasion. There's a druidic / pagan connection so occasionally someone has to play the role of the Summer King. ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net