From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of john ogden [goidel@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 4:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Shroud By the way, does anyone out there know the Church's official position on the Shroud? I'm idly curious and, incidentally, a Protestant, so I became aware of this item relatively late in life. John Ogden "Hodie merdam dare dificila est." L. Reed >From: "Andy Robertson" >Reply-To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >To: >Subject: Re: DG: Re: Shroud >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:23:01 +0100 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Davide Mana > > > Three nights ago I attended an 'orientation seminar' for the volunteers > > that will handle the crowd control side of the Holy Shroud exibition >here > > in Turin this summer. > > > > >I remember 'way back in the early 80's checking out the Catholic claims >about the Shroud. I'm fairly sure this will have been discussed on list >but apparently they claim 1) it records an anatomically accurate >crucifixion >(nails through wrist bones, not palm) 2) it isn't painted. > >I always thought the image might have been imprinted by chemical reactions >with the sweat of a human body. Of course, the whole thing is a locus of >infinite loony speculation. But Cosmic Energy? More likely ammonia. > > >The Glove Cleaner > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 4:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG:Naff/two nations divided . . . From: john ogden > Pardon my blatant provincialism, but what the @$%^&* is "naff"? > "Naff" = naif, naive. An affected abbreviation of the original word that carries the important modification of "not cool" rather than "innocent". Slightly effete slang, moving towards mainstream acceptance, but not yet in the OED. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 5:08 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Al-Andalus At 10:08 PM 3/26/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Well, here in Spain we have a rpg designed that happens in our middle age, >that game have lots of info related to the moslem presence in Spain, the >name is Aquelarre, that means meeting of witches, is a very good game if >somebody is interested I will try to translate some info. I know also that >the author is a Cthulhu fan, maybe he could write something about this. I think Aquelarre was translated into English at one point - at least, I read a review in Dragon magazine a loooong time ago, and I'm pretty sure they were critiquing an English translation. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of PM [mermoud@easynet.fr] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 5:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Jean-loup stand up >From "David.Clements" >On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 Popeyesays@aol.com wrote: >> mermoud@easynet.fr writes: >> << BTW : Noone use "Merkin" and noone would use it (unless I can start >> a trend ;-) >> Considering that a "merkin" is a hair piece for the crotch, I doubt that it >> will catch on. >Errr - some friends of mine have using this to refer to USians for years, >so it *has* caught on, precisely *because* of the double meaning. In the UK, possibly, but not this side of the Channel... ============================================= Patrice Mermoud (Paris - France) mermoud@easynet.fr ============================================= From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jeff Ewing [ambjpe@gis.net] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 8:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Eh, did I miss something!? Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > > Good Evening. > > The 3 months are over and I am back from France Hurrah, our man in the FRG is back! > 2. page 349: > The spelling is Grenzschutzgruppe 9 Funny you should mention this; I'm working on a "dubious Westphalian who claims to be a public-spirited lawyer" but is in fact one of GSG 9's most lethal operatives. This in aid of a potential 1989 scenario. > 3. Concerning Grenzschutzgruppe 9 > In the Book it is written that they assassinated an unarmed member of the RAF > terrorist group. Umm, surely you mean "IRA"? Jeff (note new e-mail address) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 10:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Really Big Ships In a message dated 4/2/00 4:41:51 PM Central Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: > Have you noticed the things we make only ever get really beautiful after two > or three generations of refinement as a killing machine? > And then there's the FFG 7 (Oliver Hazard Perry, if you must) class... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 12:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Mi-Go Deviousness At 10:40 AM 4/2/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Am I the only one that wonders why Mr Harms is so eager to convince us that >there are no traces of real Mi-Go activity in the Wilmarth report? >What did they promise you, Daniel - eternal life in a silver brainbox and >the opportunity to travel through space? >Is that enough to betray your own species? Let me put it this way. Here's your choices on who to trust: 1) Me 2) The librarian who talks with MJ-12 and PARIAH 3) Some drug-crazed Arab who told us that shoggoths don't exist (that's a good one!) Besides, I'm holding out for the canisters with wheels and cable modems. They should be coming out in another couple of years. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 12:42 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Tests, recruiters, identity (far-too-long reply) I checked out the Mark McFadden who is not the Scaly Ruler of Everything. Shit, that was scary. Because I just felt so _bad_ for the guy. In between being really perturbed by the quotes he set in to give us all a taste of what he's all about. His life is so seemingly truncated. Truncated into a world where people sit around saying variations on the "War isn't _GOOD_, mind you, but...." And the "but" always seems to imply (especially with the constant reiteration of the mantra) that "War isn't what we are allowed to call 'good,' but everything it does/is, is what makes life worth something to live". Quickly turned into a subliminal "War isn't good, but it IS good" (wink, nudge). A crass generalization about this person, and utterly unfair. Absolutely and purely the product of what he'd chosen to put up on that page. I demonize, at the sight of that which I've been told to see as Other. He's a human. Like me. Wait, not like me. But close. Regardless, his little screeny-act bothered me. But for all I know, he could be the somewhat more militaristic version of the Groovy Grimlock McFaddden whose stories I read. From what I _know_, he COULD be the same McFadden. I mean to say, this may be the way Mr. McFadden is when he's not DGML. For all I know. despite his assurances Most of us only know others by what others choose to show and tell us. We hardly have a chance to find something other than persona. Even in ourselves, sometimes. This goes a hundredfold, for those of us who write to one another, and never meet. None of you are who I think you are. I am not who I appear. I may also be someone else. A text-only persona. Someone else who posts here is actually "me" sometimes. Count out the times "I" write and reply, and to whom. Check for common misspellings and sentence-structure misuse. Note occasional trope categories that crop up far too often in both of "me". Maybe you'll guess correctly. Nobody is "who" they appear to be. "Who" we appear to be, is all that we are. Both of the above are true. "For all we know" is a useless phrase in terms of each other. We've no idea, even of our selves. We are No One. We are Nothing. We wear no mask. We are masks. I'm not going anywhere with this post. It's just that the SSG McFadden site had the (desired?) effect on me. Creeeepy. Anyone we are sure is our friend, anyone who feels close to us, anything that feels like a constant, secure part of life, anything that is the world we "know"; it could all just...go away. There is nothing we have or know or remember or assume or see or think or conclude by virtue of emperical evidence, that can't be taken away. That perhaps, never was there. Those whom I am addressing could all be SSG McFadden. Waiting for a time to prove firsthand that "war isn't good, but that's irrelevant, this is a police action, routine liquidation, for a good cause, My country, Right or Wrong, and by the way, I lied, it is good". It's a reminder To the Truth that we all face Nothing lasts forever And our efforts, They may go to waste- Truer words were never spoken. That's what I know, for all it's worth, that's what I've learned. That's the lesson I got reminded of. And it's no help at all. Heee. "...and it makes me wonder When the time will come for me to stroll; When ideals that I've embraced Have nothing left to hold, And the life that I've worked for, It can be bought and sold..." )+(, "Last Song" xJAYx ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 12:31 AM To: Delta Green List Subject: DG: Cartoonland and such Wow, the weekends are usually a time of list-slowness, but that cartoon thingie touched off a whirlwind of posts. But first: From: Jeff Ewing > Say, SuperDave, are you getting pelted with ash and volcanic debris? Thanks for the concern, but I'm on the opposite end of the Japanese island chain--we won't even get any smoke from it (but we are getting a yellow haze from sand blowing off the Gobi Desert, oddly enough). Even the pedigreed and internally contradictory Jay No-Yes, who is much closer than I am to the Mt. Usu eruption, is too far away to be affected. Anyway, to answer Mark's original question about what Merkin toons are popular overseas, the mainstays here in Japan are Disney and Peanuts--Mickey and Snoopy are on everything. Interestingly, "Peanuts" is referred to as "Snoopy" by most people, whereas in the USA, most people I knew called it "Charlie Brown." Everyone knows the real name, but they don't usually call it that in ordinary conversation. Hmm. Another big one is Tom and Jerry, which well deserves its Itchy and Scratchy spoofing, IMHO. I used to have them on my bank book, with Jerry's annoying diaper-wearing little cousin or nephew or something. And there's a question: What's with the whole nephew thing? I mean, why can't these cartoon characters ever have their own kids? Is just the thought of Donald Duck or Popeye having sex too much for the censors? ObDG: The grotesquely disfigured Popeye the Sailor. South Seas Islands populated by goons. The Jeep, creature from the Dreamlands or sidekick of Nyarlathotep? The horrifically emaciated Olive Oyl, strangely attractive to the manly Bluto. Anyway, of the classics, what isn't popular is perhaps more interesting: Looney Tunes and Scooby Doo. Bugs and Daffy are only just breaking in to the Japanese market, and we all know the new stuff sucks compared to the classics. Scooby Doo never made it, but I recently got an 8-hour tape packed with Doo, and the Missus was rocking out to the chase-scene music, so it has hope. Most Hanna-Barbera stuff didn't make it here, although Muttly pops up on notebook covers, so Wacky Races or Stop the Pigeon or something must have been a hit long ago. ObDG: Did Bugs' parody of the Imperial Army keep him out of Japan for decades? What about the long-rumored suppressed toon of Bugs taking on Unit 731 in the snowy wastes of Manchuria? (Pops up out of the snow behind a vivisectionist, among "frostbite experiment" victims. "Ehhh, what's up, doc?") As for modern toons, the Simpsons have a small fan base, and I know a few who enjoy King of the Hill. Beavis and Butthead were hot with some of my high-school students, but they've disappeared. Southpark doesn't make it--it is far too topical to be anything but confusing to most non-Americans, I think. (Most Americans, too, for that matter, but I love the exceedingly sharp skewering of hypocrisy and dearly-held beliefs.) What doesn't make it is all the "glandular heroes" toons, starring deformed-looking inverted pyramids smashing each other. Japanese heroes tend to be slimmer, smaller, more "David" than "Goliath," so when they win, it's more satisfying. Even in sumo, the most popular rikishi are often the smaller ones, the ones who usually get smashed flat but can win through cleverness. Think of Astro Boy (aka Atom Boy, aka Astro Boy) or Jungle Emperor Leo (aka Kimba, the While Lion). ObDG: What the hell is this "Mummies Alive" crap?! I've only seen the commercials (my contact in Texas doesn't record the show for me, thank goodness), but it looks like "Under the Pyramids" meets GI Joe. Of course, the US/Japan cartoon trade is even more imbalanced than the automobile trade--Japan is very much a net exporter of toons. Usually the USA got them after they were almost forgotten in Japan: Speed Racer (Ma Ha Go-Go) and G-Force (Gatchaman) were pretty old by the time they reached Merkin shores. Sailor Moon, too. These days, though, the anime are moving out-country faster. Pokemon is still on the TV here, and I've heard that Card Captor Sakura (my daughter's favorite) is already appearing there, and it's only just finished its first season, I think. ObDG: Of course CardCaptor Sakura is just a marketing engine for CCGs, but notice all the ritual gestures, props, etc. Magic becomes the plaything of cute children. She turned me into a newt! BURN HER! Note on Gatchaman: Soon after arriving here, I searched through the video shops for all my old anime from childhood. Couldn't find most of them, but I did find a couple of tapes of Gatchaman. I was surprised to find out that, as Davide mentioned, they're supposed to be ninja, but I should have guessed it from the "tengu" costumes. I can't remember the characters' real names, but I do remember that the "Cheop" character had a perfectly normal pre-adolescent voice in Japanese, and "Tiny," the fat guy, also lacked his "dumb fat guy" voice from the Merkin dubbing--in fact, he seemed pretty darned smart. There was a _lot_ more violence and death, often with hundreds of innocent-bystander and mook deaths per episode. Usually no blood, but those bat- er, birdarangs were slashing mooks' throats on screen, every episode. The team lineup is the classic Japanese team: two handsome tough guys (so they can be rivals, and one must be level-headed leader material, while the other is rash but just as heroic), a big, _very_ strong guy who acts as a calming influence on the aforesaid rivalry, a token female (who _must_ wear pink and, in between kicking mook ass, must act very "cute"), and a token kid (who usually has a pet monkey, so Gatchaman was breaking new ground) who's always getting in trouble. And as for "Princess" being Kate-Moss thin, keep in mind that the whole Kate Moss/anorexia controversy was a bit mystifying here, because Kate would look pretty much normal in Japan, except for being eight feet tall. ObDG: Why are Americans still cracking jokes about fat Russian women and fat Italian women and fat East German women, when Americans are the fattest people on the planet? Are we being prepped for the mass-market release of The Revelations of Glaaki? "It's a glandular problem, really--no matter how much I diet, I can't mmph mmm mmph..." (head disappears into shoulders) Now, what interests me is which Japanime are not playing on Merkin shores. Sure, the anime-freaks are lusting over the fantastic gender-bending of Ranma 1/2, but it's on video--it'll never hit the main channels because of all the innocent nudity and tit-jokes. (If only Akane would embrace her bisexuality, she'd see the marrying Ranma would give her the best of both worlds.) Another that'll never make it is Crayon Shin-chan, one of my favorites. Think Southpark, but in Japan with a more free-wheeling approach and slightly better artwork. Or maybe Calvin and Hobbes, with no limits. The main character (a small, severely disturbing child) has been known to drive off attackers by whipping them with his penis. It makes great fun of Japanese culture while lampooning just about everything it can. There's also the most popular of all Japanese anime, Sazae-san, but that won't make it overseas because it's just too damn boring. Simpsons stripped of anything even remotely offensive or controversial. It's a sort of comforting ritual, like the tea ceremony, to watch Sazae-san every Sunday evening. Reaffirms the feeling of Japanese-ness. ObDG: Create a toon that simply makes everyone happy to be [insert nationality here]. Let it reinforce that feeling for 30 years. Then insert the UUU. Keep it subtle! The Scooby-Doo equivalent here is Conan. No, not the barbarian--think Arthur Conan Doyle. The main character was a dashing detective until he got too close to breaking up some SPECTRE-type ring, and they zapped him with a "youth-ray." Now he's a kid with big glasses, still solving crimes while hanging out with his old partner, another detective who's a bit of an arrogant idiot. It's a bit dumb, and the violence is really terrible: nude women with slashed throats floating dead in tubs of blood, with horrified looks on their faces. Ugh--hey, I might write about it, but not for kids, OK? But it has potential. No monsters, sadly, but all the sex-and-death brings in a touch of the UUU. Combine this with a new character--a girl who may or may not have suffered the same fate as Conan. She certainly seems very "adult" in attitude, and there's a definite chemistry developing between these two adults in 6th-grade bodies (although this girl is sporting a rather well-developed chest for a 6th-grader--a Japanese 6th-grader, I should say--but I don't want to get into the whole Loli-con thing again). ObDG: Get the kids well-hardened and wake up those investigative instincts at the same time. Then by the time they grow up, they're ready to pick up a gun and work for Alphonse. Now, as for kids screaming at the thought of entering cartoonland, well, sure! Roger Rabbit made it a bit more palatable, but these kids know that the Dreamlands (Cartoonland is just a neighborhood in the Dreamlands, the place where all the sicko animators go when they dream--of course!) is a dangerous place. Dave PS: WELCOME BACK, ECKHARD!!! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Noyes [ft203004@fsinet.or.jp] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 2:09 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RE: Cartoonland and such >from sand blowing off the Gobi Desert, oddly enough). Even the pedigreed and >internally contradictory Jay No-Yes, who >is much closer than I am to the Mt. Usu eruption, is too far away to be >affected. Hasn't even shaken my ancient apartment building, which is designed around non-uclidean measurements and sways in strong breezes. >sharp skewering of hypocrisy and dearly-held beliefs.) What doesn't make it >is all the "glandular heroes" toons, starring deformed-looking inverted >pyramids smashing each other. Japanese heroes tend to be slimmer, smaller, >more "David" than "Goliath," so when they win, it's more satisfying. Even in >sumo, the most popular rikishi are often the smaller ones, the ones who >usually get smashed flat but can win through cleverness. Think of Astro Boy >(aka Atom Boy, aka Astro Boy) or Jungle Emperor Leo (aka Kimba, the While >Lion). The phrase that I most often use to describe them, which I also use when any conversation about boy bands crops up, is "faggoty little girly-boys". And I might add, the Japanese don't seem to admire so much their success as their willingness to fight. To lose valiently is often considered even better than victory. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Erik Johansson [erik.johansson@karen.oru.se] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 2:04 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: SV: DG: Eh, did I miss something!? RAF, that's Rote Arme Fraktion (German terrorist group) (Not Britains Royal Air Force, which I think is the reason for your outcry?)) Erik Johansson ---------- >From: Jeff Ewing > >> 3. Concerning Grenzschutzgruppe 9 >> In the Book it is written that they assassinated an >> unarmed member of the RAF >> terrorist group. > > Umm, surely you mean "IRA"? > > Jeff (note new e-mail address) > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 3:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Velma At 01:31 PM 4/1/00 EST, you wrote: > > Dude. Been there. Bimbo *and* frigid. Not one dynamo hum the entire time we >were together, now that has got to tell you something. > >signed, > Some guy who borrowed Mark McFadden's keyboard. > > Listen, I heard that about you two. Apparently, you were WAY too possessive. But Scooby still likes you... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 4:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: RAF In a message dated 4/3/00 12:05:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, erik.johansson@karen.oru.se writes: << RAF, that's Rote Arme Fraktion (German terrorist group) (Not Britains Royal Air Force, which I think is the reason for your outcry?)) Erik Johansson >> Thank you. I was >Mark McFadden > Boy, is my face red. > > Again.... ;-P From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 4:53 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: New pyramid found A French archeaological team have found the foundations of a previously undiscovered pyramid south of Cairo. They have also recovered some `pyramid texts' on stone tablets in another tomb, and some new chambers and tunnels which they've only seen so far through an endoscope. The head of Egypt's Supreme Council on Antiquities, Gaballa Ali Gaballa, said: ``Who knows what else they might find?'' He obviously knows far too much for his own good... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 5:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Eh, did I miss something!? Jeff Ewing schrieb: [snip] > > 2. page 349: > > The spelling is Grenzschutzgruppe 9 > > Funny you should mention this; I'm working on a "dubious Westphalian who > claims to be a public-spirited lawyer" but is in fact one of GSG 9's > most lethal operatives. Damn. He finally found out. I bet you do not even dare to ask just what I was REALLY doing in France... > This in aid of a potential 1989 scenario. Unfortunately "GSG9's most lethal operative" was only 17years of age at that time . [snip] > > Jeff (note new e-mail address) Oh my, you seem to have a new e-mail address! ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:18 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Eh, did I miss something!? Jeff wrote: > > 3. Concerning Grenzschutzgruppe 9 > > In the Book it is written that they assassinated an unarmed member > > of the RAF terrorist group. > > Umm, surely you mean "IRA"? I think your confusing The IRA who attacked British bases / personnel in Germany as an outgrowth of the troubles in the UK / Ireland, with the home grown Greman terrorists the Red Army Faction of the 1970's and 1980's? I think (not sure here) they were / are an extreeme left wing group - marxists / maoist / communist in politics. Later Rob. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:29 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: TRADECRAFT: ultralights and such > EdDrWho@aol.com writes: > <<< Frankly, that [drop-dead gorgeous Sophie Marceau] failed to impress me. The FN P90s rocked, though. >>> Oh dear. I think you've said it all..... What exactly is the problem? Bad experiences with women or good experiences with firearms? You took your USMC drill instructor's advice seriously?? :) -- Adam Crossingham War in English = Wanting more cows in Sanskrit Home e-mail: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Stanley [nytmair@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 6:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Neotissue in 'Wired'? You have GOT to get Rules of Engagement, this story reeks of the awesome new DG fiction. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Austin Chamberlain [austin@light.mth.uct.ac.za] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 6:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Eh, did I miss something!? Eckhard wrote: > If anybody should be interested in a brief outline of that campaign > I might post it here. Just ask. > Yes! Please. Welcome back, Eckhard. Can't have the Merk^H^H^H^HAmericans outnumbering everyone else .... Austin -- These hands!! I can't get them off my wrists!! Oh, God!! - Happy Noodle Boy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust The King of the cold-blooded things writes: 7F00,0000,0000> I just noticed that you are the first I've read to mention any > cartoons that > aren't US product. < 7F00,0000,0000> I'd love to hear some thumbnails of the things I've missed. What's > this > "Stop the Pigeon? well "Stop the Pigeon" is Hanna Barberra from the 60s/70s basically a Dick Dastardly / Muttley vehicle, featuring them two other characters called Clunk; the inventor / mechanic / handyman with a bizzarre speech impediment, and Zilly (sp) a cowardly character who could understand and translate for Dick and the audience what Clunk just said. Basic plot set in a war never made clear where exactly and they have to stop Yankee Doodle pigeon from delivering his dispatches, which they never do. So not UK in origin however having done some research (which was fun) I present the following Toons which may actually have some DG relevance even! ;-) : DangerMouse: 0100,0100,0100DangerMouse, for those of you who DON'T know, is a cartoon secret agent created in England By Cosgrove/Hall Productions Limited. http://www.dangermouse.org/index.html Cosgrove Hall the producer of DangerMouse also produced some other great animation: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5144/cosgrove.html for a list of their titles, Chorlton and the Wheelies there was also "Trapdoor" great claymation about the horrors lurking below the aformentioned trapdoor mainly for kids that one as the following web page shows (still I liked it :-) http://www.angelfire.com/sc/cheekychilla2/ Is it me or is UK animation just bonkers? Later Rob "off to buy SW:TPM" Thomas From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust > >Is it me or is UK animation just bonkers? > No, you're right. Charlton and the Wheelies scared the piss outta me as a child. And could I see Dangermouse versus the Servants from Glakki? Yep... This thread reminds me of another British comic, Zenith, which appeared in 2000AD and had a strong Mythos element. Basically, superhumans are created by the government, rebel against their would-be masters and go off to become their world's equivilant of David Heseltine, Jim Morrison and other notables. Fast-forward to the present, where the child of two of the original superheroes is wasting his abilities as a drunken rock-and-roll star. As the series unfolded it harked back to the original British super-human, Maximan, and his Nazi counterpart, Masterman. The Nazis, Special K lovers that they were, had managed to bring forth various Mythos entities - but they could only survive inside the body of a superhuman. Terrestrial tissue wasn't strong enough to contain their forms. There was lots to Zenith, including a battle between alternative realities which saw one superhuman have a close encounter with Yog-Sothoth... Later! Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:05 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust The UK seems to have produced a lot of home produced animated (rather cartoon) series during the late 1960s and 1970s some of the most notable being: Mr Benn, Rhubarb & Custard (both already hon. mentioned); others include: * Bagpuss (a saggy old cat doll that wakes up to a magic organ) * the Clangers (knitted beings inhabit the Moon who drink soup and swear) * Ivor the Engine (dragon powered steam engine in the Welsh valleys) * Noggin the Nog (a nice Viking forerunner of 'Eric the Viking') * the Herbs (a walled garden of stereotypes based on herbs, sorry, 'erbs) * Crystaltips & Alistair (A girl obviously on drugs and a talking dog ) * Rainbow (three men in anthropomorphic suits played for gay larfs, and a dance combo, of which the sole female member and age group sex goddess, never ever aged; not strictly animation but couldn't be excluded) * Charley the Cat (a public education cat who warned about the dangers of doing dangerous things that there were quite gratuitous enough) * The Magic Roundabout (original version only mind you; trippy English narration over surreal French animation; sugar cubes anyone?) * Captain Pugwash (the antics of a middle class pirate captain and his crew, any connotations of English sexual practices perceived are completely false) * The Wombles (furry creatures pick up litter and recycle; obviously a PISCES inspired social indoctrination experiment that never worked) * Paddington Bear (another PISCES social indoctrination experiment that didn't work either: accept a strange Peruvian bear (or anything else) into a family unit and it will become a productive member of society) Finally... * Trumpton, Camberwick Green and Chigley - the ideal, white, pastoral world of the late 1960s that our Fishy Masters want us to buy into. Everyone wants a place in the country, near a small unspoilt town that still has a viable High (Main) Street, no out of town hypermarkets, and where the farmers prosper, don't chase foxes, don't use very smelly pig shit as fertiliser and don't drop dung on the road so that it splashes the Volvo. The antidote is Half Man Half Biscuit's 'Trumpton Riots' EP. Technical note: lots of these series were produced in small batches. The UK traditionally makes TV series in 6 or 13 episode batches. Apparently there are only 13 Mr Benn episodes. Therefore a lot of this stuff was in *very high rotation* throughout the 1970s and early 1980s. -- Adam Crossingham War in English = Wanting more cows in Sanskrit Home e-mail: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Stanley [nytmair@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Rules of Engagement I dont know how long this has been out, but I just got it from Amazon.com friday. It is a great edition of modern Mythos, and a must read for all of us DG'ers for atmosphere and content. I loved Alien Intelligence and have so far found this book, to be just as good if not better (Especially the fact that it is really just one story, instead of a bunch of shorts). I havent finished it yet (about 60 pages remaining), but I already cannot wait for another. There will be another Mr Tynes, right ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust At 01:05 PM 4/3/00 -0000, you wrote: >* The Wombles (furry creatures pick up litter and recycle; obviously a >PISCES inspired social indoctrination experiment that never worked) What do you mean?? I ALWAYS tidy up!! It worked on me! But then I am rather soggy-brained... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 7:54 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The RAF... no not THAT RAF [was: Re: DG: Eh, did I miss something!? ] Robert Thomas schrieb: [snip] > > I think your confusing The IRA who attacked British bases / > personnel in Germany as an outgrowth of the troubles in the UK / > Ireland, with the home grown Greman terrorists the Red Army > Faction of the 1970's and 1980's? I think (not sure here) they were > / are an extreeme left wing group - marxists / maoist / communist > in politics. They were. At least we hope so. One or two years ago they officially declared that they would end their fight. The 70s definitely were the most important years for the RAF and especially the year 1977 when they planted bombs in malls and kidnapped and/or killed politicians, important men from law enforcement agencies and even managers. The most important operation featuring RAF terrorists was probably the hijacking of a Lufthansa flight to Mogadishu in 1977 - a cooperation with Palestinian activists. By taking hostages the RAF wanted to free their comrades imprisoned at the High Security prison in Stuttgart-Stammheim. As we all know, the GSG9 ended this affair. Some of the imprisoned terrorists commited suicide after the failure of their colleagues. It is still a legend very well loved in German left-wing groups that these men and women did not kill themselves but were killed by German authorities in retaliation for the hijacking. In the 80s many left wing activists and politicians, especially from our notorious Green Party, flirted with the RAF's ideas. This ended in 1989 when the RAF killed Alfred Herrhausen, the president of the DEUTSCHE BANK, a man who was not only a manager, but also philosopher, supporter of arts and artists and the first German manager who planned to help 3rd world nations by letting them keep the money the received as credit. [ Since I knew this man in person, I have to say that this murder really made me both angry and sad ] Killing such a man left the RAF whithout supporters and sympathy and they nearly ended their activities. The last operation that I remember is the killing of a Mr. Rohwedder in 1991. This man was the President of the TREUHAND, the agency that tried to privatise factories and firms that once were state property of East Germany. Another note on the RAF: Two of the terrorists' defense lawyers are now members of the German parliament or even the Government: Hans - Christian Stroebele,60, member of the Green party and notorious enemy of the capitalist system is now a member of the government organisation that investigates Helmut Kohl's "black money scandal". With the beginning of the NATO strikes against Serbia, Stroebele declared in parliament that he is "ashamed to be German". Yeah, right. Stroebele was [ and probably still is ] an RAF-sympathizer and even was judged for the crime of supporting a terrorist organisation. Many believe that Stroebele smuggled illegal material for the terrorists into their prison. Some believe that it might have been him that smuggled the guns that were later found in the cells. Otto Schily changed from the Green Party to the Social Democratic Party in the late 80s [ or early 90s ]. With the election of Kanzler Schroeder in 1998 Schily became the secretary for the interior. I consider it kind of ironic that a man who sympathised with terrorists is now responsible for the protection of the security of German people and the nation itself from interior threats and terrorism. But some of his old friends are confused, since he changed from a left-wing lawyer to a "Dirty Harry"-Style defender of law and order. Which leads to the following question: Might he be infected by our favourite pets from Shaggai? ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:05 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Neotissue in 'Wired'? DocHopt wrote: >"Human skin is a well-knit fabric of collagen fibers whose structure gives >the organ its strength and flexibility. But cut more than skin-deep, the >injured flesh mends itself with scar tissue, a grow-quick layer that's stiff >and fragile. Now a British biotech firm is improving on the body's Bondo: >Electrosols's spray-on mist coats a wound with biodegradable polymer fibers >that normal skins cells adhere to. The sprayer uses an electrical field to >distribute the fibers in the cross-weave of healthy tissue, laying a pattern >for new skin to follow." Sounds pretty straightforward and non-MJ-ish to me. The only new thing here is using the electrical field to distribute the fibres (note that much more creepy things have been done in this field - anyone remember the immunodeficient mouse with the artificially grwon human ear grafted onto it's back - now _that's_ science!). I suspect that this article would best be exploited as a red herring to irritate gullible investigators. >This was accompanied by a 1000x pic of eerile -purple- skin cells. Note the >"British biotech firm." According to the quip, the company that's developing >this (Electrosols, www.electrosols.com) was founded in 1992. How long has the >AoTE been around? I don't have 'Countdown' yet... possible link to the >Greys/MJ-12? The purple cells are obviously a false colour photo.... although it might make an interesting player handout for a certain scenario (plus, I wonder if the biotech company also make dishwasher detergent? But I digress). However (most important point!) if you don't have COUNTDOWN yet... why not! The Paganites are only a phone call/fax away. >Who's never had a skin graft, thank you very much... It can be arranged. I have the technology.... Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu Something is coming. Something wonderful.... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:13 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Neotissue in 'Wired'? At 09:05 AM 4/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >Sounds pretty straightforward and non-MJ-ish to me. The only new thing here >is using the electrical field to distribute the fibres (note that much more >creepy things have been done in this field - anyone remember the >immunodeficient mouse with the artificially grwon human ear grafted onto >it's back - now _that's_ science!). I suspect that this article would best >be exploited as a red herring to irritate gullible investigators. There's also the newt or salamander with two heads, one of which is growing out of its eye socket. Am I read, or did I have too much cheese before bed last night? JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust Crossingham, Adam schrieb: > The UK seems to have produced a lot of home produced animated (rather > cartoon) series during the late 1960s and 1970s some of the most notable > being: [snip] > * The Wombles (furry creatures pick up litter and recycle; obviously a > PISCES inspired social indoctrination experiment that never worked) Argh, don't insult my childhood heroes! And those were heroes bearing the names of beautiful rivers like the broad, majestic Orinoco! But if you do need a mythos explanation for the Wombles, than I would prefer to follow the Martense or De La Poer route: Greenpeace activists and tree huggers after several generations of inbreeding! > * Paddington Bear (another PISCES social indoctrination experiment that > didn't work either: accept a strange Peruvian bear (or anything else) into a > family unit and it will become a productive member of society) Did anybody ever mention that "ALF" was just a cheap Paddington Bear ripoff!?! And when I think about it, I think that even the idea for the glorious "Mr.Belvedere" was stolen from PADDINGTON. And, when trying to spot the mythos in childrens' television [and especially British childrens' TV ]: The most obvious example is probably "CATWEAZLE" about an immortal [!] wizard who is obviously insane! [ And we all know where wizards get their 0 SAN Points from ] ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:16 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: End Time Does anyone out there own the old Pagan Publishing product End Time? What's it about? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Frank Frey (SOK) [ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:27 AM To: Eckhard Huelshoff Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The RAF Greetings, Eckhard, I just finished reading a book on Carlos the Jackal. I was amazed to find that Gabrielle Krocker-Tiedemann, a known terrorist, got off scot free in a German court.(due to witness intimidation, I might add). Do you know what has become of her? Thanks, Frank Frey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad!" Salvador Dali ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Frank Frey (SOK) [ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:32 AM To: Crossingham, Adam Cc: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust Greetings, When you refer to Mister Benn, are you talking about a series with Rowan Atkinson? Over here it's called Mr. Bean and BTW the movie's already been out in theatrical release and is now available as a rental. Frank Frey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad!" Salvador Dali ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:37 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: End Time dgrpg@delta-green.com wrote: > Does anyone out there own the old Pagan Publishing product End Time? What'sit about? Never was published. Check the Delta Green website for a transcript regarding END TIMES. Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:43 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust At 09:31 AM 4/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings, > >When you refer to Mister Benn, are you talking about a series with Rowan >Atkinson? Over here it's called Mr. Bean and BTW the movie's already been >out in theatrical release and is now available as a rental. > >Frank Frey > No, this is a completely separate animated series... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Al-Andalus >From: "FAC" >Reply-To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >To: >Subject: RE: DG: Al-Andalus >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:08:38 +0200 > >Well, here in Spain we have a rpg designed that happens in our middle age, >that game have lots of info related to the moslem presence in Spain, the >name is Aquelarre, that means meeting of witches, is a very good game if >somebody is interested I will try to translate some info. I know also that >the author is a Cthulhu fan, maybe he could write something about this. > >Fernando Aznar I'd be very interested to hear about this... My mother's family is originally from Spain but, alas, I speak/read spanish VERY VERY poorly. Which is ironic... my grandmother was a linguistics teacher in San Juan University. She'd visit in the summer and try to teach us spanish... but, well, kids don't like having a class in the summer, you know? One interesting family story is that my grandmother's grandfather (I believe) deeded the family home in Barcelona to the side of the family that stayed, with the provision that the side of the family going to Puerto Rico would, forever after, be allowed to stay there when they visited. ObDG: Well... could work that family story into a DG episode. Perhaps one of the agents has family he doesn't know much about... I can think of various 'Coming Home' riffs on this. Better yet, have family secrets and skulduggery that doesn't actually involve the Mythos or supernatural, for a change of pace. -=Will ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:45 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Cc: 'Frank Frey (SOK)' Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust > Frank Frey (SOK) enquires: > <<< When you refer to Mister Benn, are you talking about a series with Rowan > Atkinson? >>> > Nope. Mr. Benn and Mr. Bean are different entities. Mr. Benn lives on Festive Road, Somewhereville, UK. He either goes to lots of fancy dress parties or is rather bored because he tries on lots of different fancy dress at his neighbourhood fancy dress shop. The shop's owner is somewhat like Stephen Alzis because he knows what Mr. Benn wants, and when Mr. Benn tries on the latest outfit he obviously travels by gate via the dressing room to a dimension appropriate to the latest fancy dress. When Mr. Benn's time is up, the mysterious shopkeeper appears. Mr. Benn is either a cat, or he's really Faustianally in debt to the shopkeeper. -- Adam Crossingham War in English = Wanting more cows in Sanskrit Home e-mail: tigger@the-wolery.demon.co.uk Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of William Timmins [wtimmins@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:28 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The King in Yellow Dreams SO I just finished the King in Yellow. An interesting read... Chambers was obviously a much better writer than Lovecraft. Anyway, so I'm considering the source material (the book, that is), and note a few things. For one, Hastur is referred to obliquely. In several places, he is referred to as a person. Mulling about that, and other KiY-isms, led me to the following... Hastur dreams of the Earth. The Earth is the Dreamlands, to him. He dreams up a mortal self, toddles around, moves things about, then wakes up and does various GOO stuff (hyperchartered accountancy, etc), then goes to sleep again and dreams... He's created various ways to travel between Carcosa, a dream representation of his reality, and Earth, a more fun playground. Like Earth> Dreamlands, the Earth has separate existance from him. But he can, over time, warp and weave the reality of Earth by dreaming things to be true. The play, King in Yellow? The Yellow Sign? These are dream symbols, pieces set down by Hastur to draw folk into his dreamcreations. They are threads of his dream, interfacing the rest of Earth-dream. This would tie into the other groups... perhaps Cthulhu tumbled between dream-worlds, landed here, and is stuck between the GOO reality and this dreamworld. Eventually he will pull out of his other-worldly coma and gain his full dreaming... The Gods of the Dreamlands. Original inhabitants, before we dreamed all the humans in? Did they dream us, did we dream them? -=Will ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust At 02:45 PM 4/3/00 -0000, you wrote: >> Frank Frey (SOK) enquires: >> >He either goes to lots of fancy dress parties or is rather bored because he >tries on lots of different fancy dress at his neighbourhood fancy dress >shop. > I always reckoned he was a sort of pervy civil servant... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The King in Yellow Dreams Will wrote: > SO I just finished the King in Yellow. An interesting read... Chambers was obviously a much better writer than Lovecraft. Read his 'shopkeeper romances' and tell me that. I dare you. You might want to keep the number for the Samaritans handy during the exercise. [snip] >This would tie into the other groups... perhaps Cthulhu tumbled >between dream-worlds, landed here, and is stuck between the GOO >reality and this dreamworld. Eventually he will pull out of his >other-worldly coma and gain his full dreaming... In one of the Price books (CTHULHU CYCLE?), Price draws the connection between Cthulhu and the god in a Dunsany story whose servitors keep drumming to keep him asleep, Mana-Yood-Sushai. Check out http://w1.2638.telia.com/~u263807840/Writers/Forfattere/Dunsany/Pegana.htm (especially "Skarl the Drummer"), an excerpt from the Introduction to THE GODS OF PEGANA follows: And it has been said of old that all things that have been were wrought by the small gods, excepting only MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI, who made the gods and hath thereafter rested. And none may pray to MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI but only the gods whom he hath made. But at the Last will MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI forget to rest, and will make again new gods and other worlds, and will destroy the gods whom he hath made. And the gods and the worlds shall depart, and there shall be only MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI. He also draws the obvious connections with Azathoth. Stomping around the landscape might be the worst of our worries if Cthulhu stops dreaming... Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Stanley [nytmair@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: I Need my Angel fix!!!! When is the next chapter coming out ?, I am really looking forward to what happens next!!! John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:55 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: Cartoon lust > Jonathan Turner quips: > <<< I always reckoned he was a sort of pervy civil servant... >>> Nah... couldn't afford to do it on a civil servant's salary :) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Noyes [ft203004@fsinet.or.jp] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 10:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Lucky me A friend of mine just gave me a 1939 compilation of some of Lovecraft's stories, including "the Hound", one that I haven't previously come across. The book (almost a booklet, really) was printed on pulp stock as a special edition for soldiers heading overseas. Of course, one must wonder at the dubious wisdom of including a story like "Call of Cthulhu" in the morale packet of a bunch of men slated for extended duty in the South Pacific. Jay