From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andrew John Farrow [andrew.j.farrow@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 6:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Some questions > >This list has so many odd topics. > >Okay, I have 2 questions. One, is there really such a thing as a nuclear > >bullet? If so, tell me about it. If not, stop taking advantage of gullible > >lurkers. californioum bulletsmake an appreaence in the top secret G4 source book - a good source of wird science / cookbook ideas in general an earlier post on list complains the energy requirement to make one far out strips the explosive power - so what that maxim allpies to many weapons surly - the point is a weapons factory can afford to * waste * energy - the soldier on the ground gets the bang in a portable form direct at the target - that is what you require- > > Two, a while back there was a discussion of a very, very, very > >flammable chemical. Water made it's fires worse, etc. I would like to know > >more about this. magesium alloy will burn more firecly w/- any std fire fighting agent - water / foam / co2 all can makee the job worse - at the scale i have encountered it , a granular "sand" which fuses over the fire is about the only thing that works . From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 6:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pocket nukes On 5 August 2000 AD, Jonathan Turner said, re pocket nukes: > >Apologies. But what I was actually theorising about was even smaller nukes. >There was a mention of Californium bullets theoretically causing small >nuclear explosions. What kind of evidence would it create? How small can a >nuclear reaction be, and still cause damage. Starship Trooper tac-nukes, >maybe? Traveller mentioned the use of 20mm (?) Californium rounds, which would compress into a critical mass on impact with the target. Of course, these made use of Third Imperium (51st Century) tech -- nuclear damper fields covering the magazine and the breech -- to keep the Californium around long enough for you to shoot it at the Vargrs or whoever! Ultra tech would also explain how they were able to mass produce enough Californium to use it as ammo! IIRC, most of the "Traveller" Californium-firing ordnance was supposedly mounted on grav-propelled RPVs and fired by remote control. (So maybe, even with the dampers, the stuff was considered a bit too hazardous for the average Trooper to tote around in the pockets of his battlesuit?) Even so, the rounds would have to be fired with a very high muzzle velocity, to minimize time of flight and decay of the Californium after it exited the damper field -- this would be a purely direct-fire weapon, which means it doesn't enjoy one of the advantages that would keep projectile weapons around even in an era of Death Rays... (In a Traveller game many years ago, a Vargr character (not mine) did major damage to a starship while firing an LMG-sized version of such a weapon at an attacking alien a few meters away!):) Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com (Who would really rather use an X-ray laser on the target...):) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 6:31 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Dreamfusions Greetings. OK, set me up a nicely padded cell with northern exposure.... >Let me just say I was astonished by the response to this. I had thought >that "Dreamspaces" like mine were unusual. Obviously we are all a lot >madder than I thought! My thoughts exactly. >Now some comments on your amazing posts . . . >> In there I met a person whith whom I've been chatting these last few nights. >> Notice she's a real person I used to know a long way back - something like >> fifteen years - but I've not been in touch with for the last ten years or >> more. > >Amazing stuff. Without wishing to be impudent, or stupid, my mind tiptoes >up to the question: is she dreaming of you, and of this town, too? Beats me, but sure I did think about that, too. As I said, we sadly lost contact a long time ago (life's a bitch and all that). For all I know she might be dead, and have been for years. I hope not, for she was special. And yes, I've been trying for a month to trace her wereabouts - no use. Are we actually sharing a common Dreamscape? Rationally, I find this difficult to accept. I'm simply going over an unresolved issue from a long time ago, possibly fueled by a fatigue trip. BTW - I explained my vivid dreams as an effect of stress. SuperDave's "Gambare!" directed me to an alternative, less melodramathic interpretation. These dreams come when I acquire lots of new informations - through study or such. I've been overtaxing my old steam-powered brain with lots of different subjects - from structural geology to Japanese language to Go. I actually like it like this - despite the long hours and the inconvenience - but maybe at night my brain has to take a true tour-de-force to reorganize all these info, and I get the Technicolour Dreamlands Mystery Tour as a side effect. On the other hand, the last time I met the lady in questionin the wakeworld she was about 20 years old. Now I dream about an about-thirty version of her - sign of aging and all. The character in the dreams has been pretty detailed about her last few years - we have been trading memories in my dreams. Her story sounds plausible and it has a certain degree of internal coherence - for what I can remember. If my mind's making all this up, well I'm far cleverer (and a damn better fiction writer) than I ever imagined. I guess I'll have to use Dr McFadden's patented method and try and look at my hands during the next dream in which we meet. Jeez, all this is weird. But this discussion is getting really interesting. I wonder what will come out of it. And now I stop - it's half past one in the night and I have to catch some sleep. Take care. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Re: Threshold for Real Life Horror Finally the truth is out. The trick is to shed the illusions without shedding the sanity -----Original Message----- From: Andy Robertson >All human values are meaningless in the _real_ Universe - as HPL said. That >meaninglesness does not stop when it dissolves the values of blustering >Victorians and cork-hatted 1920's adventureres. It extends to us and to the >core values of _our_ society - be they egalitarianism and sexual equality on >the one side, or the "sanctity of human life" on the other. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:01 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Threshold for Real Life Horror AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Sorry, automatic reaction. I work for the company that produces them. -----Original Message----- If not: Better try "Carebears - The RPG" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: Dream Madonna [was:Re: DG: Threshold for Real Life Horror] That story is worth way more than 2 cents. Very good. Disturbing in that it takes human caring and turns it into something negative, and works in something that everyone generally feels very strongly about. -----Original Message----- From: Jean-Loup Sabatier >The mother and son were not direct antagonists: the son is a >murderous dream lord who is protecting and avenging his mother >(partially against her will)... > >Just my two cents... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:09 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Paperhouse I think I may have died in a dream, but I don't think it was mine. Probably one of my ex-roomies dreams though! -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Hubert >Since we are on the subjects of dreams, I once (many years ago) had a >dream in which I was killed in a road accident one-third into the dream >and spent the rest of the time in the dream wandering lonely country >roads and wondering what was going to happen next... > >Has anyone else here died in his dream? > >- Juergen Hubert From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Mused [mused@idirect.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Cartoon lust -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Turner >> No shit Jonathon. From now on stick to loud eructations and methane music >in >>houses of worship, and insisting that your Muslim guests try the wine and >>pork rinds. WOW! We seem to have the same hobbies! > >I was obviously mistaken in thinking that someone out there might like to >know that it wasn't the case, and incidentially offer a link to a good >urban myths site. Sorry if that upset you. Take deep breaths and go sit on >the patio in your bath chair for a while. And if you're going to be so >insulting, you could at least spell my name right, Rakm. HELLO! It is called possible story leads.... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Brent Dragoo [clownsaw@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Evil Government Projects Howdy- So I guess I'll finally, officially delurk and introduce myself now. My name is Brent Dragoo. I'm a Freshman at Wabash College, an All-Male (thats right kids, no girls. Not a single one.) college deep in the cornfields of Crawordsville Indiana. As a point of excitement, Hyperion author Dan Simmons attended here, and he's going to talk to our sci-fi class tomorrow. Other than that, Brent's a pretty average fellow. I don't have much planned out for my life. I guess I'm an exceptionally pitiful human because I subscribe to this list, but I've ran a DG game like maybe 5 times, and thats it. My "group of players" are a worthless bunch of human beings. I still hold out hope that I'll get something rolling this summer, though. Anyway, thats me, onto a question Anyway, what are some creepy projects or operations that the government has slapped onto the populace at large, or at least on a minor scale. Examples that come to mind are the Forced Sterilizations in the 30's, the radiation "treatments" on mental patients, dropping soldiers next to atomic bomb blasts, stuff like that. Can you worthwhile people think of anything else that seems grossly barbaric? Thanks brent. man on fire From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:19 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Some questions In a message dated 00-04-05 18:10:06 EDT, you write: << Anyway, there _must_ be someone more physical chemistry minded on the list... >> I'm not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV. However, most veterans of the USN who joined after about 1970 receive firefighting training in Boot Camp, usually supplemented by another more specific firefighting course after tech school and before being sent to sea. Consequently, airdales such as your humble narrator learned how to put out fires on flight desks, snipes learned about engine room fires, submariners have their own course and so on. Due to all of the exotic materials that could be in aircraft, the presence of fuel and warheads etc etc, the standard combination to put out any flight deck/aircraft/hangar fire was a tow tractor fitted out with tanks of Purple K and a connection for a standard fire house. This led to a dual-pistol shaped nozzle that shot Purple K from one nozzle and foam from the other. Purple K is a powder that smothers flames by displacing the oxygen, so it was perfect to use on reactive metals and such. Foam is an organic liquid that resembles oxblood and is combined with air and high pressure water to lay out a smothering blanket of foam that keeps hot material from combusting again after the Purple K kills the flames. The only time we would use plain water in firefighting was for the fog rig that kept the nozzle crew on the foam hose cooled down so they could closer to the flames. The policy of universal firefighting training began (at least for airdales) due to a series of serious fires on aircraft carriers off of Vietnam. The best documented was the fire on the USS Forrestal which was caught on video from beginning to end by the flight deck cameras. An Aviation Ordnanceman tested a connector to see if it was "hot" before rigging a missile. It turned out that the multimeter he was using was defective. When he connected the cannon plug, the missile launched across the deck and struck an A-4 that was fully loaded and armed, ready for flight. Damn, I wasn't really planning to talk about the Forrestal fire, but it is the stuff of legends. If you see the tape, you can see that the crash crew had managed to put the fire completely out with the Purple K and foam....then the missiles exploded, killing them all. It is estimated that due to the explosions, every man qualified in firefighting on the flight deck was dead within the first 10 minutes. There are shots of men literally reading the instructions for wearing their Oxygen Breathing Apparatus before they could continue. Shots of men *without shirts on* grabbing a hose and heading to a wall of flame, then BOOM and video flare, then an unmanned hose wriggling across the deck which gets picked up by some more guys who charge the firewall with it. One guy *kicking* a scorched smoking 500lb. bomb across the deck and over the side. I swear, there are moments caught on those tapes that make me proud to be a primate. Anyhoo, Purple K (and Halon) kills fires dead dead dead, but you have to smother the area to to keep it that way. Mark McFadden Hose Team Charlie, Fly 2 And the proper nomenclature for the foam generating nozzle adapter is "donkey dick". Call it anything else and you'll get a blank look. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 8:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Paperhouse This reply is way too late, as I think the thread is wrapping up, but I have to discharge my centavos. Most of my dreams are forgettable (and I do, generally). But sometimes, I get dreams with continuous theme and locational similarity. I get these in the same manner that other people mentioned. Basically, when real Life is just not giving me many reasons to like it, my internal Life revs up a notch. My dreams share traits with what others have mentioned as well. For instance, flying happens, but it is accompanied with a weird feeling of pressure along my spine, and it takes great effort to "balance" my way through a flight, as if it were being done by moving along aseries of invisible wires, tangible only to me. If I screw up or unbalance, I fall, and I have to spend great effort to "get onto" the appropriate path of flight. It's very slow, the only thing to recommend it is the altitude, and straight-line travel. Also, there are a lot of admixtures of various houses that I have been in or lived in; they are often connected differently each time. But they are places that I _know_, even if they are also strange to me. Often the entire town I am in is a mix of various towns I have strong ties to. This is no surprise, really. There are some differences, though. First, I've never had one of these dreams where I could even discern a library or bookstore in the place. I hardly ever read a word in the dreams.This seems to be at odds with what many of you have reported. If I need to search for an idea, I think or talk about it. With much effort, it comes. Completely. As if I had a monitor and database in my head. Or... it doesn't, and I feel hurt and start to forget what I was even trying to do. The anxiety level jumps a notch, and I begin to panic. That makes it into a Bad Dream, even if it wasn't before. Also, the mundane landscape is always off. Hills, to put it simply, are absurd. They are always like Chinese Monumentalist paintings. Do you know what I mean? As if the foreground, background, and middle of a mountainous area were all piled right over next to one another, in order that everything is in the same focus. And the hills are exaggerated, much in that same monumentalist style. Every hill of my various hometowns is now a tower of rock and trees, going up at a 70-90 degree angle. Houses are perched all over these things, streets too. For some reason, it all looks perfectly comfortable. Even though when one looks off the street "over the hill", it's a Tex Avery- Wily Coyote drop. The _other_ landscape is a little more important, though. I've long since classified two types of trip in my dreams of this type. They are Inside-House and Outside-House. Inside-House is a type of journey where I go into (or start in) a house or building, and I tend towards more and more "inside" movement, between rooms, hallways, et cetera. The more into looking through a house I get, the more "inside" I get. Stairs, or any up or down access, tend to more firmly cement my "inside-ness"; the more I travel them, the less likely I'll get outside of the building(s) I'm in anytime soon. It's an actual feeling. I can _feel_ that I'm too "inside" to get out, even there's usually no reliable point of reference. Eventually, I can find a deeper "inside" consisting of framework staircases, earthen basements, rooms made of crawlspaces. It's very bad to be here. My innate claustrophobia guarantees a Bad Dream shift. But sometimes, if can make it even more "inside" than that, "inside" becomes so "in" that it becomes "outside". It's not that I find an exit, so much that I find a part or room of Inside-House that IS Outside-House. Again, I know this to be true in a way that has no empirical backup. And Outside-House? Well, that's outside, the hills/mountains, the trees, the sky, what-have-you. It's simultaneously inside AND outside of Inside-House. But it's not really a house, obviously. I call it Outside-House because it is _housed_. In me. I can see the Me that it's housed in, if I look hard enough. I can see the vault of my ribs and the great mass of my organs, up past the sky, if I look, and I remember what it is I'm experiencing. And past that I can see a great Me, looking at me looking out at Me, who is looking into Me...usually I have to wake up then, it's too sick-making. When I'm sick already, and I have a really bad fever, or the dream is about to take a really bad turn, the real structures of things become clear. Inside-House and Outside-House have really obvious intrusions of my internal body in them, such as vascular tunnels and swampy lymph-like areas. the sky is my ribs (or maybe sometimes my stomach?). It's not so much terrifying, as it is a feeling of ugly inevitable breakdown, of the essential plainness and claustrophobia of the dream being made more and more clear. And in these bad spells, I don't wake up for a while, and there's no real easy exit. A person always looks like someone else I know. But it's a REALLY rare thing if they are who they appear to be. Very few of them seem to know me, but they often have very swift (and often contradictory) reactions to me, if I let them notice me. They don't fly or do anything spectacular. But then again, neither do I. I seem, in the dream, to be even more defined by my limitations than I am in real Life. If I can't remember how to do something perfectly, I often can't do it _at all_. Most of the time I'm a pair of eyes and a mouth, figuratively speaking. If I get too upset, I can't even remember how to run without tripping. But the flying, clumsy as it is, helps:) About three years ago, I had a series of these, where an omnipresent set of UFOs watched and followed me. They looked like (get this) old turn-of -the 20th-century ceiling fans. Even with the flowery motif on the lights, and around the blades, and they looked to be made out of brass. They just floated in the background and...rotated slowly. For some reason, I knew they were from outside of Me. And finding things that I can specifically tell are Outside Me, is, shall, we say, a bothersome event there. Any other details depend on the dream. But these things are ALWAYS there. Even now, the damned Ceiling Fans, which I'd like to go away. xJAYx PS-I hope this isn't a question answered already, I may have deleted w/out reading. Have you ever met anyone you were SURE was from outside of your experience? Like, you came out of the dream CONVINCED that the person was not a subset of you? Mr. Mana seems to be iffy on it. But that is with some reflection, of course. He also seems to find the idea that he could make up this woman's life hard to believe. But has there been a time when, even with persistent, logical thought, you KNEW that someone else had been there? Despite what you knew, you KNEW. I realize this is kind of like asking, "Hey, will you admit you're possibly nuts?" Feel free to ignore the ramifications. Or the question, even. This thread is something I'm clearly recieving in it's dying eve. Ah well. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Dreamfusions Crap. I guess Mr. Robertson is asking (much more lucidly) the same question I'm asking, more or less, a la "dreamfusions". My question is old before it's sent. Sigh. Should have read faster, better, more. They'll replace me with a new me soon. I just know it. My answer to the "dreamfusion" question is, I' ve met people (?) in my own dreams whom I'm sure (without any reasonable evidence, mind you) weren't a product of Me. Yes, it's entirely rare as to be almost never. I can't explain why I'm so sure that that's what's happening. xJAYx ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: West Memphis 3 OK. You've got my attention. As soon as I respond to the 107 e mail in my in box I'll check out the web site. My personal favorite is the poor bastard who was finally proven innocent after 25 years in the joint for a murder. He's still in prison for life though...for the three escape attempts he made. Then there's the McMartin pre-school trial... Phil Posehn ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jeff McSpadden [jeferi@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Some questions LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > > best documented was the fire on the USS Forrestal which was caught on video > from beginning to end by the flight deck cameras. > I swear, there are moments caught on those tapes that make me proud to be a > primate. Mark, I hate to kill your warm fuzzy with a conspiracy, but do you recall which historical figure and mythos sleeper agent was on deck ready to launch when the bombs cooked off? Jeff From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of John Petherick [jpetheri@cyberbeach.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 10:11 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Evil Government Projects At 09:19 PM 4/5/00 -0500, you wrote: >Howdy- >> >Anyway, what are some creepy projects or operations that the government has >slapped onto the populace at large, or at least on a minor scale. Examples >that come to mind are the Forced Sterilizations in the 30's, the radiation >"treatments" on mental patients, dropping soldiers next to atomic bomb >blasts, stuff like that. Can you worthwhile people think of anything else >that seems grossly barbaric? >Thanks > >brent. man on fire > > In the USA in the 20th Century, there's Tuskeegee (untreated syphilis to document its course in black men) and prison medical experimentation. Hmm, MK-ULTRA would probably also be here. Digging into the past practices of chemical warfare research by the US Army would be pretty unsavory also. And the practices of the Department of Energy, particularly early uranium mining and the operation of Hanford, aren't too clean. If you go back further, there's the forced relocations of the Indians (Trail of Tears, etc.) that directly resulted in many deaths and social disruption. In Canada, there's the same eugenics programs - the Germans came to Alberta to find out how to run a proper eugenics program and deal with the mentally retarded. And sterilizations continued in Alberta until the 70's. We didn't forcibly relocate many natives, but in the 20th century we did have residential schools (and I think the US did also). In an attempt to assimilate natives, children were taken from their families and introduced to the tender care of a variety of religious organizations (Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, etc.). In hindsight, the physical and sexual abuse isn't surprising since the same things happened in orphanages and correctional schools for white children run by the same groups. In the same vein, there's the Duplessis orphans in Quebec - children deemed to be mentally retarded (most simply because they were illegitimate) were delivered into the care of the Catholic church. Physical and sexual abuse, plus long-term neglect and/or 1940's and 50's psychiatric treatment has resulted in some really damaged people. Then there's the stuff that we did for Britain and the US. During WW2, most of the chemical warfare experiments occurred at Camp Sussex in Alberta. Military "volunteers" were exposed to a variety of warfare agents to document effects, treatment and antidotes. A little bit later (1950's and 60's), CIA brainwashing experiments were conducted off-shore in Montreal on psychiatric patients. ObDG: If my Canadian adaption of DG ever gets off the ground, the residential schools and other measures to assimilate First Nations people were attempts to break the influence of traditional Mythos cults among a few tribes. A lot of innocent bystanders got hurt to do it, and it may now all be for naught as First Nations return to traditional beliefs. ********************************************************************* John Petherick, CIH jpetheri@cyberbeach.net From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 11:14 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Evil Government Projects On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:11:10 -0400 (EDT) John Petherick writes: > At 09:19 PM 4/5/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Howdy- > >> > >Anyway, what are some creepy projects or operations that the > government has > >slapped onto the populace at large, or at least on a minor scale. > Examples > >that come to mind are the Forced Sterilizations in the 30's, the > radiation > >"treatments" on mental patients, dropping soldiers next to atomic > bomb > >blasts, stuff like that. Can you worthwhile people think of > anything else > >that seems grossly barbaric? > >Thanks > > > >brent. man on fire > > There were also the testing of radioactives on unsuspecting humans in the late 50s and early 60s. Phil > > > > In the USA in the 20th Century, there's Tuskeegee (untreated > syphilis to > document its course in black men) and prison medical > experimentation. Hmm, > MK-ULTRA would probably also be here. Digging into the past > practices of > chemical warfare research by the US Army would be pretty unsavory > also. And > the practices of the Department of Energy, particularly early > uranium mining > and the operation of Hanford, aren't too clean. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Beck [msb216@is7.nyu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 11:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Evil Government Projects During WWII, the OSS dropped several thousand troopers into Germany in order to gather intelligence. At least, that's what the troopers were told. In reality, it was intended that most of the troopers be captured (which happened) in order to distract the Germans from realizing OSS had broken the German codes, which was where their intelligence really came from. Philip A Posehn wrote: > On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:11:10 -0400 (EDT) John Petherick > writes: > > At 09:19 PM 4/5/00 -0500, you wrote: > > >Howdy- > > >> > > >Anyway, what are some creepy projects or operations that the > > government has > > >slapped onto the populace at large, or at least on a minor scale. > > Examples > > >that come to mind are the Forced Sterilizations in the 30's, the > > radiation > > >"treatments" on mental patients, dropping soldiers next to atomic > > bomb > > >blasts, stuff like that. Can you worthwhile people think of > > anything else > > >that seems grossly barbaric? > > >Thanks > > > > > >brent. man on fire > > > > There were also the testing of radioactives on unsuspecting humans in the > late 50s and early 60s. > > Phil > > > > > > > > In the USA in the 20th Century, there's Tuskeegee (untreated > > syphilis to > > document its course in black men) and prison medical > > experimentation. Hmm, > > MK-ULTRA would probably also be here. Digging into the past > > practices of > > chemical warfare research by the US Army would be pretty unsavory > > also. And > > the practices of the Department of Energy, particularly early > > uranium mining > > and the operation of Hanford, aren't too clean. > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 1:29 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Montecassino At 03:02 PM 4/5/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Montecassino must have been pretty important for him or the whole church. >A secret library? A secret brothel where young boys work a clergymen's sex >slaves? Or a secret facility where researchers worked on secret weapons for the >Swiss guard? The scary thing is, I've heard of Monte Cassino in connection with the Mythos before, in Joan Stanley's EX LIBRIS MISKATONICI (Necronomicon Press). According to her work, Monte Cassino was actually the repository of a copy of the Necronomicon (Greek or Latin), which was supposedly destroyed in the bombing. Of course, there could have been other reasons, but this might be a good place for a Keeper's inspiration to start. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:17 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Here a Mark, there a Mark, everywhere a .... At 04:52 PM 4/5/00 EDT, you wrote: >http://www.gonesouth.com/artsupport/GalHistory.htm > > I am honored to be on the same page as Ansel Adams, Elliot Erwitt, Weegee, >Robert Mapplethorpe, Man Ray and ...Harry Callahan?!? > >Mark McFadden > The one and only. > > Dirty Mark McFadden? JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:16 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Rebuttal of the Californium Bullet Idea At 03:56 PM 4/5/00 -0400, you wrote: >>From Global Ideas Bank (http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-528.HTML, specifically): > >"The idea of using californium or antimatter as bombs fails to take into account the fact that, in >either case, the whole world output of those materials is less than 1 gram. Another bubble burst... *sigh* Well, I think it should work anyway! Cos it's cool!! And there's bound to be some way to do it!! *maniacal laughter* From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:35 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Electric gun You're right about talking guns being a staple of Sci-fi culture. Once again I drag 2000AD to the fore - Gunnar in Rogue Trooper could talk and shoot and do all kinds of stuff - no, wait. he was a rifle. He could talk and shoot. That was it... Anyway, Jonny Alpha's gun obeyed voice commands (Number Four Cartridge!) and Dredd's Lawgiver recognised his palmprint (even though he always wore gloves), detonating an explosive charge if anyone else tried to use it. It too recognised Dredd's gravelly tones (High-explosive! Rubber-ricochet!) and so on... I used to love the rubber-ricochet bullets in Dredd. I wonder if you could ever make a real one? Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:37 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Electric gun At 10:53 PM 4/5/00 +0100, you wrote: > >having a bad day too - so take last it in spirit of things :-P > It's okay. We're here for you. Actually, I was most cheered up by the general attitude of folk on this list yesterday, having witnessed terrible flaming and rows on other, less enlightened lists. We may be bitter, twisted and cynical, but we're basically Good Guys... Well, apart from the MiB, because protomatter doesn't qualify. I think... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:44 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Some questions At 06:06 PM 4/5/00 -0400, you wrote: > >My take: theoretically possible, Igor. You forgot to say ``theoretically possible, Igor'' before rubbing your hands together and cackling... Reminds me of the old Travellers cartoon in WD, where >Mad Gavin the ex-marine produces a similar-ish weapon and pronounces "The >atomic handgrenade. Great weapon. Now all they need is someone who can >throw it 25 miles." > LOL It reminded me of that yesterday as well. That's two Traveller references on this thread. Interestingly enough, and on topic for a change, I had a friend who ran a scenario for 2300 which involved a mysterious shadowy group using Colours to power ships. As they leech power though, I don't see how that would work. Jonathan Now brimming with nostalgia for deck plans, battledress and FGMP-15s... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: the movie Has this been discussed before? Who would we have directing Delta Green: the movie? Who would our composer be? Who would do the theme song for the marketing blitz? And what about a cast? And what would the Pagan crew do as a cameo? The Lone Gunmen? ;-} As I'm surfing on the back of my latest update from the Mission:Impossible 2 site this morning, I'd have to say John Woo... with music by Basil Poledoris or Jerry Goldsmith... Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Juergen Hubert [snjuhube@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:57 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Paperhouse MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > I hope to return again and I know that if I can surround myself in something > for a while I can dream about it. But, as I get older, it gets harder. Well, I still dream regularily, though remembering the details of my dreams gets harder... Last night, for example, I dreamed that I was wearing the teeth of another person - old, diseased teeth that were rapidly falling apart. And, indeed, one tooth came out when I tried to brush them - it only was connected to the rest of my teeth by a long, diseased strip of flesh... I tend to see my dreams as a source of entertainment... - Juergen Hubert From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:05 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Evil Government Projects Michael Beck wrote/napisał[a]: > During WWII, the OSS dropped several thousand troopers into Germany in order > to gather intelligence. At least, that's what the troopers were told. In > reality, it was intended that most of the troopers be captured (which > happened) in order to distract the Germans from realizing OSS had broken the > German codes, which was where their intelligence really came from. I hate to be nitpicker but this wasn't OSS that broke German codes... Those were Brits and Poles working in Bletchley Park.. Alex -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Those German WWI Dreadnoughts In a message dated 4/5/00 4:16:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, theherald@hotmail.com writes: << > > They also changed a definite nationalistic bend of the series - I mean, > > it's the _Yamato_ they retrofit to save the planet. > > But it was good. Too bad the Japanese thought of it first... Could you imagine a German amime series "Space Battleship Tirpitz"?:) >> I think the best name for a ship to defend Earth would be HMS Thunderchild. Mark McFadden Powered by Cavorite, of course. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Some questions In a message dated 4/5/00 7:34:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jeferi@earthlink.net writes: << Mark, I hate to kill your warm fuzzy with a conspiracy, but do you recall which historical figure and mythos sleeper agent was on deck ready to launch when the bombs cooked off? >> Nothing can harsh my fuzzy. That would be c) John McClain, Regis. It all happened long ago, and the heroism was just as heroic as it was it was. And the future Presidential candidate paid his dues at the hands of teenaged female Tcho-tcho orphans raised to be fanatically loyal to Uncle Ho on a diet of enemies of the state. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Dreamfusions In a message dated 4/5/00 4:37:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << I guess I'll have to use Dr McFadden's patented method and try and look at my hands during the next dream in which we meet. >> When you do, ask for her number. Get her to write it down if you can. This will a) get her to look at her hands which could easily guide her into a lucid state (and is more subtle than shrieking "Look at your hands!") and b) makes the number a visual element, not a spoken one. I'm not sure if that helps everyone retain information into the waking state, but it helps me. I have no problem with the possibility that you might actually be in contact with the "real" person. I hope you are. But even if you are only conversing with your conception of her, it's better than a kick in the upper lip with an icey galosh. Isn't it? I had a similar experience that was somewhat verifiable. Circa '76 I was stationed aboard the USS Midway, homeported in Yokosuka, Japan. In addition to my grieving subjects, I had left a girlfriend behind. We corresponded on a regular basis and were becoming good friends. One night, at sea after a 12 hour workday and a 4 hour watch, I dreamt that I was back in my 'hometown' of South Gate, CA. I was wandering through the drive-in theater by the 7 (now 710) Freeway, you know, on Firestone Blvd? Anyhow, I'm wandering between the rows of cars and California Custom vans parked backwards with rear doors to screen. Then I spot the rather distinctive and familiar camper truck of a good friend. We knew each other since we used to go to the same YMCA summer camp every year when we were in grade school. Later, we ended up at the same Jr. High and *he* was the one that recognized the other 3 musketeers (the first day! at lunch) and made us an instant clique that lasted through High School, picking up newbies along the way. No way was I going to pass up a chance to see Bob again, so I headed over. One detail that I only find significant after the fact is: I have no idea what movie was playing. Me. I don't even know what kind of movie was playing. Also, despite the High School-ish theme, the drive-in was not a particularly special place to me (hmmmmmmmm. I just realized that that is not the case with Bob. Curiouser and yada.) I was more of the cruise up to the Griffith Park Observatory, doing my James Dean impression ("I've got the bullets!!") and winding up with where the deer and the uh, rabbits play on the slopes below it kinda guy. Unless it's raining so the drive-in gets kind of Zen. So I look in the rear window and see Bob, and my inamoratta, Janet. And Barbara, the girl Bob dated the longest in High School. Sitting cross-legged and talking. I tap on the window and there are exclamations all around. We open the hatch and I climb in. We babble and remark often about how weird it is that I would be there since I was supposed to be in Japan. That really bothered me because I was pretty sure that I was in Japan. Well, at sea, but you know, same difference. I didn't get agitated so much as distracted. I'd lose the conversation or would stare off trying to remember anything between work that day and now; plane trips, driving over, anything. When they asked me about wandering off, I told them and asked if they were hanging out together often. Janet thought about it and said that they had gotten out of touch and she didn't remember driving over or getting in Bob's truck. Bob just kind of shrugged it off. Another thing I only find significant after the fact is how unnoticeable Barbara was. Not like she turned transparent or got all Gothic novel mute, just dropping out of the conversation the way some people do when they are reading (not rude, just into it) or knitting or putting pictures in a scrapbook or whatever. Bob, Janet and I formed a triangle when she dropped out. We talked about the situation a bit more, and Janet and I agreed that we were dreaming. We started trying to work out the permutations of what was "really" going on. Another thing I only find significant after the fact is how Bob dropped out of the conversation. We didn't remark on it, didn't notice it. The only awareness I can remember of his not being in the conversation was a sort of assumption that he must be talking to Barbara. All I had to do was turn my head left to find out, but I didn't, it wasn't important. What was important was figuring out who was dreaming. We both were able to recall a day leading up to going to bed, so we figured that we were *both* dreaming the situation and wasn't that cool? I told her about being at sea for over two months, crossing the Equator and being on the way to Karachi, Pakistan. She told me about the LA Academy of Theater Arts, but we already knew most of this stuff because we were corresponding regularly. The conversation sort of wandered and got indistinct and at some point I stop remembering. No sensation of nothingness, no fade to black; I was dreaming, I started to nod off in the dream, I was being shaken awake by the watch. Weeks pass. Our mail catches up to us and I see that Janet sent me a letter in August. In it, she describes her dream about the drive-in and gives a good outline of the events. Funny, huh? She can remember the date easily enough, it was the night before. My birthday. Yep, that would be when I had the dream. I remember being particularly pissed about the day and the watch duty on my birthday, the night I had the dream. I'd often forget to make special arrangements for my birthday; I'm notorious for forgetting birthdays and my own is no exception. That's why that surprise party Bob and Janet set up for me just before I went to boot camp was so special. The only embellishments made to the events in the story was emphasis added, footnotes and timing. That is really the way I remember it I type with a straight face, fully aware of what unconscious editors we are. But I am telling the truth to the best of my recollection at this point in time. I like to think that the dream wasn't all that uncommon, that people do it all the time. Mine was dramatic because I remembered it, it had a framework that fixed it in time which made it verifiable and (possibly the most important element) the other person also remembered the dream. Anyhow, that's why I believe in the QuIP network. Mark McFadden Got a few ghost stories from Nebraska. I saw dead people. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Those German WWI Dreadnoughts At 04:07 AM 4/6/00 EDT, you wrote: > I think the best name for a ship to defend Earth would be HMS Thunderchild. > >Mark McFadden > Setting down his champagne glass... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:45 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Paperhouse At 09:56 AM 4/6/00 +0200, you wrote: >Last night, for example, I dreamed that I was wearing the teeth of >another person - old, diseased teeth that were rapidly falling apart. >And, indeed, one tooth came out when I tried to brush them - it only was >connected to the rest of my teeth by a long, diseased strip of flesh... > > I dreamt I was Robocop... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 3:17 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Some questions > Anyhoo, Purple K (and Halon) kills fires dead dead dead, but you > have to > smother the area to to keep it that way. > > Mark McFadden > Hose Team Charlie, Fly 2 > And the proper nomenclature for the foam generating nozzle adapter > is > "donkey dick". Call it anything else and you'll get a blank look. On an interesting note, halon is a heavy dense neutral gas that displaces oxygen. It does nothing to remove the heat and it oxygen returns to the formerly buring and still hot material, it will flash again. Halon does not know the difference between a fire and your lungs. Although it is not at all toxic, it will sit in your lungs and set up housekeeping. You can suffocate from that sort of thing. Exhaling will not clear it (or not completely anyway). To get halon out of your lungs, bend over so that your mouth is below the level of your lungs then exhale and inhale deeply a few times. I told a friend of mine about this stuff when I found out that he had been assigned to drive tanks after he completed basic training. The U.S. Army puts halon cannsters in armored vehicles to put out fires. In the motor pool one day, a halon cannister went off in one of the tanks. One of the other soldiers was in the vehicle with it and got a lungful of the stuff. My friend stopped him from stumbling around gasping and got him to bend over and breathe deeply, clearing his lungs. Halon is frequently used in fire protection systems around computers and electrical equipment. My first "real" job was designing fire protection systems and I got to look at alot of these in the field. They are especially popular in larger hospitals. Incidently, you will find all kinds of things lurking above ceiling tiles. Some of my favorite finds were; liquor bottles (some still holding liquor), porn magazines, mice, poisonous spiders, lizards, old lunches and snacks, manuals, tools, a flashlight we had left on a previous visit (oops), architectural drawings, and a great deal of dust. One alcohol and porn find was in a psychology ward in a hospital. There was this patient who kept staring at us as we were doing our site survey. He went away after we reported our find to the orderlies. Ceiling tiles have played a part in many of my games, CoC and others. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 2:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Evil Government Projects There was a medical project done long ago to see what the ultimate clinical effects of syphillis would be. A group of subjects having syphillis were assembled and studied by doctors until the disease killed them. All the subjects were black males, thus adding a racist dimension to the project. I no longer have any details of this experiment, but I studied it in Experimental Psychology where it was presented as a case study in failure of ethics in scientific investigation. There were photos, so it is not just an urban myth. People going to the Persian Gulf during that little party in the sand a few years ago were injected without informed consent with a number of experimental drugs, at least some of which were supposed to protect against nerve agents. Many of the psychological and physiological problems associated with "Gulf War Syndrome" are suspected by some to a result of these experimental drugs. These are the ones I could come up with off the top of my head, there are others I am sure. Go to any Internet search engine and type in "conspiracy" and you will get more info-bits than you can eat! Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:50:47 +0100 Jonathan Turner writes: > Has this been discussed before? Who would we have directing Delta > Green: > the movie? Who would our composer be? Who would do the theme song > for the > marketing blitz? And what about a cast? > > And what would the Pagan crew do as a cameo? The Lone Gunmen? ;-} > > As I'm surfing on the back of my latest update from the > Mission:Impossible > 2 site this morning, I'd have to say John Woo... with music by Basil > Poledoris or Jerry Goldsmith... > > Jonathan > > Poledouris is cool, but we'll need that pop music soundtrack CD for the kiddies. For the lead song, I'd suggest Godsmack, based on the eerie-yet-trendy sound of "Voodoo." But of course I'm old school, Blue Oyster Cult *must* be in there somewhere. :-) John Woo is a great director of action movies, but Delta Green: the Movie is more than just an action film. It is also a horror film on a cosmic scale. John Carpenter has a track record in both, as does James Cameron. Who directed _Saving Private Ryan_? That had some really well done cinematic effects going on. Too bad Kubrick is lost to us. As for the Pagan crew, and other interested parties, there will have to be hordes of cultists... Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie At 04:01 AM 4/6/00 -0500, you wrote: >> >Poledouris is cool, but we'll need that pop music soundtrack CD for the >kiddies. For the lead song, I'd suggest Godsmack, based on the >eerie-yet-trendy sound of "Voodoo." But of course I'm old school, Blue >Oyster Cult *must* be in there somewhere. :-) > Well, I was also thinking of Howard Shore, >John Woo is a great director of action movies, but Delta Green: the Movie >is more than just an action film. It is also a horror film on a cosmic >scale. John Carpenter has a track record in both, as does James Cameron. Cameron would be good, but even though I deeply love John Carpenter's stuff, he'd just try and make it another western... We could have the Lizard King in it, though... ``Call me Snake...'' Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:29 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: PISCES operation in Turkey gone wrong? Good Morning. This evening Leeds United will play against Galastasaray Istanbul in the UEFA Cup. [ For our American friends: This is the European soccer cup ] Last night two British fans were killed and many others hurt by Turkish fans. The officials say that the Brits got attacked after making trouble, like insulting people on the streets, breaking windows and general drunken misbehaviour. I guess the British hooligans might very well have been under-cover PISCES agents on a mission to fight the Brothers of the Skin [ The English were murdered with knifes ]. Probably the Brothers of the Skin have brought fan groups under their influence. This would be a further example of cultists where you don't expect them. While nearly every players might expect cultists behind new age groups, powerful high-tech companies or government agencies, you might well surprise them with cult activities in soccer-fan clubs, billard bars, workers' unions or Star Trek conventions. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:31 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: the movie > Jonathan Turner asks: > <<< Has this been discussed before? Who would we have directing Delta Green: > the movie? Who would our composer be? Who would do the theme song for the > marketing blitz? And what about a cast? > > And what would the Pagan crew do as a cameo? >>> > What the initial ground rules - are you talking current Hollywood talent or All Time Greats? -- Adam Crossingham Who exactly are the Dragon Kings? And why are they returning? Home e-mail: zodiac@theblackseal.org Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:44 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: PISCES operation in Turkey gone wrong? At 11:29 AM 4/6/00 +0200, you wrote: > >I guess the British hooligans might very well have been under-cover PISCES agents >on a mission to fight the Brothers of the Skin More likely Special K stooges... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:44 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: the movie At 10:31 AM 4/6/00 -0000, you wrote: >> >What the initial ground rules - are you talking current Hollywood talent or >All Time Greats? > Cut loose with whatever feels right, IMHO... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Noyes [ft203004@fsinet.or.jp] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Dreamspaces & Paperhouse >I tend to see my dreams as a source of entertainment... I've always looked at them as sort of an in-flight movie myself -- something to keep the concious mind (whatever _that_ is) occupied while the guys in basement get things organized. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Noyes [ft203004@fsinet.or.jp] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: the movie >cinematic effects going on. Too bad Kubrick is lost to us. Yikes. _There's_ an idea that's worth a SAN check. I mean, his work on non-horror stuff was disturbing enough. Jay From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jean-Loup Sabatier [sabatier@saint-etienne.tt.slb.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Threshold for Real Life Horror dgrpg@delta-green.com The Glove Cleaner wrote: > There are any number of abortion supporters who will say "abortion isn't > murder". I do not share this illusion. I think it is an example of the > routine and healthy lying-to-oneself so necessary to thrive psychologically. I really don't want to create a hot debate about abortion, but do you really think that a foetus with an unfinished brain, with neither elaborate thoughts nor language can be called a "human being" ? It has all the potential to become a human being, but in my opinion it is not. So, in my opinion, the abortion is rather "killing something that may have become a human being", but not killing a human being, and to me, that's completely different : it's still "killing" but it's not a "murder" (in my opinion). Just my two cents... Jean-Loup