From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 3:00 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Movie Cast (so far) At 11:42 PM 4/6/00 -0400, you wrote: >The suggested cast, so far: You are to be commended for drawing together everyone's posts on this, mate... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 3:02 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie At 09:33 PM 4/6/00 +0200, you wrote: > > . Martin landau - Dr Bitterich > Perfect. Ten out of ten... > . Sting - Obherfuhrer Reinhart Galt > ARGHHHH!!! Go to jail. Go straight to jail. Do not pass go... How about David Bowie as a Mi-Go? > From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 3:03 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie At 05:52 PM 4/6/00 +0200, you wrote: >Major Codrington Kevin Spacey Nah, SAS blokes are mostly short and stocky. I think Gary Sinise would be good, cos he's a scary-looking bloke TM... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 5:05 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Montecassino In a message dated 00-04-06 14:21:13 EDT, you write: << Pope: He knows that the place is the ancient burial site of a "fallen angel", that has been chained under the monastery, and that is chained by strange magics performed by god (let's say a really big Elder Sign, or whatever you imagine). He has demanded not to destroy the place because he does not want the symbol destroyed and the "fallen angel" released. He sends there his agents, some from the Order of St. Jerome, and perhaps some Swiss Guards. They have orders to make sure that the symbol/s remain in place, and have some books (or are there in the monastery) with a ceremony to repair the symbol/s in case of damage. In this case the books will be the most valuable thing in the place, enought to protect them with whatever. >> This is starting to resemble the setup for The Keep. Although I do agree that the Secret of Montecassino must be something that can't be relocated, so I don't think the library is it. BUT (dun dun dun DUN!) maybe all the players think the library is the "treasure" and the reason for the monastery. Imagine their surprise when they pull that shepherd's staff off the door to the cell with the howling man in it. Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jean-Loup Sabatier [sabatier@saint-etienne.tt.slb.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 3:34 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Delta Green not horror? I think there is some hope indeed in the delta green setting, but that's still horror, IMHO. In fact, I'm probably using delta green today also because of this touch of hope (among plenty of other reasons) : first, my new team of players are not hardcore horror fans (even if they behave well in horror scenario), they need to solve something from time to time or to win some battles ; and second, I was a little tired of completely hopeless horrors (CoC in the 20s and today Kult), because when player's actions and decisions cannot affect at all the campaign (but only affects how long they will survive and what seat they will get to see the next act of the campaign) something is lost in the rpg, IMHO. Here they make some decisions, if they win, this has some consequences (even if at last, it will probably make little difference). Just my $0.02 :-) Jean-Loup From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 4:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green not horror? When the first edition of Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu game hit the stands, I had to have it. I had to con all my rpg pals into playing it. Not too difficult, several of them were Lovecraft readers too. But I knew very little about the 1920's and I wasn't really motivated to learn more. It just isn't a very intriguing period for me. My solution was to update everything to the 1980's. I knew the 80's. I always started any given scenario on the date of the first session of play. I used current events in the setup and I encouraged my players to take advantage of the news as well. It saved their butts once at least, when someone remembered that the U.S.S. Coral Sea and associated task force were in their area conducting the drug interdiction of Colombia. The players created characters from all walks of life; school teachers, park rangers, business men, writers, truck drivers, private investigators, scholars, bums... And they lived all over the U.S., California to New England, New Orleans to Chicago. None of the characters was created with the idea that they were going to be fighting scary monsters, though all the players knew that they would. My task was to bring them all together. None of them knew the others, few of them even lived in the same area. I created "The Company." ( This was not it's name, this was all the characters ever knew to call it.) It was a small, underfunded, black operation whose purpose was to investigate Mythos phenomena with emphasis on national security threat assessment. It was decided that the Mythos represented a significant threat to national security and was to be stamped out wherever possible. The problem that "The Company" faced was that it lost operatives to insanity without understanding why. The operatives had no better a survival rate than the general public when faced with the cosmic horrors of the Mythos. So they began inducting survivors, often against their will. Ultimately, all these new operatives saw the danger and pitched in, but at first they were actually more afraid of the Company than the Mythos. That changed quickly. This campaign ran more or less contiuously from the publication of the first edition rules to 1998, and has not formally ended, just faded out for a while (which has happened before). Anyway, the point of all this is that I have dealt with the issues of the Horror vs. Conspiracy/Suspense theme, and the ".357 and a badge and a cell phone" issue as well. Delta Green flavored Call of Cthulhu can be played as a firepower geek game. This is true. But we found out years ago that guns ( and grenades and bombs and jets and battleships) are not cure-alls. There are situations where they just are not appropriate. Secrecy must be maintained and many creatures are not impressed by guns. Vulnerable creatures react much more intensly when they suddenly find themselves faced with a bunch of SMG brandishing cowboys. My players quickly found out that the guns should stay hidden until they knew they had the bad guys cold. In fact, the guns were more used on cultists than on creatures. I once popped a Deep One in the head with a 7.62N round on a critical hit and did not kill him. Lobotomized, yes, but not dead. In the same game I got hit with a spear gun and almost died. The cultists and some intelligent creatures used technology too. And time travel meant that they sometimes had stuff that wasn't out yet. We recovered a couple of small arms that turned out to be lasers. They were not alien tech, they were Colt/G.E. We ( the characters ) knew it was a lost cause. We had all read the prophesies. We had seen the kinds of things that humanity was up against. But more than that, we saw the toll on our fellows. Every "adventure" (right!) saw one or more of us badly wounded. Every mission was another chance to get eaten or go insane. Old operatives were treated by the newer ones with a mix of awe and distrust, the "not so great old ones" all had their physical and psychological scars. The Company wasn't picky about sanity as long as you were functional, one of our fellows went on several missions after being rendered amnesiac. The team just briefed him and tried to keep him in a support role. In between missions, he continued his therapy. Each of us knew that it was just a matter of time before his luck ran out. Our victories were mostly small, and our defeats costly. Finding your boss tied to a chair on a deserted ship in the South Pacific is bad. Ungagging him only to hear him say, "Thank God you're here! Shoot me! Now! In the head!" is worse. You can play Call of Cthulhu as a powergamer slugfest, but we always played it the way Lovecraft wrote it. Mythos stories were always about the revelation. My campaign followed in the footsteps of the originator, after all the stories were what we fell in love with in the first place. The Delta Green material has added to my campaigns but it has not changed my take on the game. At it's best, it is at heart a horror genre game. The toys don't change that. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 4:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Creeping longevity > But a question - if you had the chance, would you really want to > live > forever? Absolutely! I'm going to live forever or die trying. Forever is a long time, if I ever felt like ending it all, I'd lie down til the feeling passed. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:18 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Cc: 'LizardRoi@aol.com' Subject: DG: Dragon Kings [was DG: the movie] > LizardRoi regally dictates: > <<< None of your damn business and because I said so, that's why. > Just where did you hear these false and unsubstantiated rumours about > Dragon > Kings? >>> > But liege, I heard tales that something wonderful was coming.... But whether it will be the Lloigor or the Serpent People that will walk over your prostate and craven form is another matter. -- Adam Crossingham Long live the Revolution. Sometime around July, I think. Home e-mail: zodiac@theblackseal.org Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:27 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: the movie <<< > . Sting - Obherfuhrer Reinhart Galt > STING??? It's confusing. But it somehow would work. At least optically. > But would > Sting play a Nazi? >>> > I'd agree with the list about Sting not being able to Galt justice, but he could in a small bit part, pull off a convincing Nazi sidekick. He's done something similar already in Dune... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 6:38 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: RE: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering > EHuelshoff anthropologically reports: <<< when the two teams come from the same city [we call that "Lokalderby"] >>> LOL! As a Brit I feel I much apologise for this soccer imperialism that crept over the world (it's Local Derby where I come from). Reminds me of the time I was in Berlin and the all-German supporters were chanting in German, "Here We Go" [a well known British football anthem principally because it's easy to learn...]. ObDG: It really is becoming a global village out there... which means we hate the village next door because they worship the Devil, cavort with fish-men and do better than we do. -- Adam Crossingham Just how does the Army of the 3rd Eye communicate with itself? Home e-mail: zodiac@theblackseal.org Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering At 11:38 AM 4/7/00 -0000, you wrote: > >ObDG: It really is becoming a global village out there... which means we >hate the village next door because they worship the Devil, cavort with >fish-men and do better than we do. > I demand, DEMAND, an explanation here!!! What the hell does ObDG stand for, exactly? TELL MEEEEEEE!!!! *deep breaths* JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering BTW: The Turks killed two Englishmen. Istanbul won 2:0! Frightening. Was the killing probably the casting of the spell "Call the God of Soccer and convince him to let your team win"? ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 5:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green not horror? forvalaka@juno.com schrieb: [snip] > Anyway, the point of all this is that I have dealt with the issues of the > Horror vs. Conspiracy/Suspense theme, and the ".357 and a badge and a > cell phone" issue as well. Delta Green flavored Call of Cthulhu can be > played as a firepower geek game. This is true. But we found out years > ago that guns ( and grenades and bombs and jets and battleships) are not > cure-alls. There are situations where they just are not appropriate. Like: Weddings, funerals and Thanksgiving Dinners. > In fact, the guns were more used on cultists than > on creatures. Which is - though not too unorthodox - a very wise thing to do. >I once popped a Deep One in the head with a 7.62N round on > a critical hit and did not kill him. Lobotomized, yes, but not dead. And, did you spot any changes in his character? ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:51 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering Jonathan wrote: > I demand, DEMAND, an explanation here!!! What the hell does ObDG stand > for, exactly? TELL MEEEEEEE!!!! > > *deep breaths* well it stands for Obligatory Delta Green its an attempt to ensure that the signal to noise ratio of the list remains high. every e-mail must have some DG relevance even if its tacked on at the end it was instituted way back at the start of the list befor all the movie threads and casting option which should have been making use of it. (HINT HINT) Rob ObDG why dosen't anyone check the cave ever about anything before posting these days? J.R.E.Thomas. ThomasR@cardiff.ac.uk Our kind. Us people. All of us that started the game with a crooked cue, that wanted so much and got so little, that meant so good and did so bad. Jim Thompson 'The Killer Inside Me' http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/tshirt.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:06 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: RE: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering At 12:50 PM 4/7/00 GMT0BST, you wrote: >the list befor all the movie threads and casting option which should >have been making use of it. (HINT HINT) Oh right. Ok. ObDG: Delta Green, the movie. How about that? >ObDG why dosen't anyone check the cave ever about anything >before posting these days? Uhhhhh... sorry... JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:08 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: ObDG [ Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering ] Robert Thomas schrieb: > Jonathan wrote: > > > I demand, DEMAND, an explanation here!!! What the hell does ObDG stand > > for, exactly? TELL MEEEEEEE!!!! > > > > *deep breaths* > > well it stands for Obligatory Delta Green > > its an attempt to ensure that the signal to noise ratio of the list > remains high. every e-mail must have some DG relevance even if > its tacked on at the end it was instituted way back at the start of > the list befor all the movie threads and casting option which should > have been making use of it. (HINT HINT) Ah, come on, don't be too strict. This casting game was pretty amusing and it even had at least some DG relevance since it was a great way to tell the other on the list just how you imagine your favourite NPCs to look like. And when you compare it to the as legendary as infamous "Starship Troopers/Heinlein a Fascist"-Thread....shudder... ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: strange-aeons@chaosium.com Subject: DG: Interesting reading Greetings. [I'm sending this to both DG List and Strange Aeons - sorry to those that will get two of these] I just received from my British supplier a copy ofa book that might sit well on the same shelf where you keep your copies of Call of Cthulhu and Delta Green. I'm no reviewer, but I'll try.... The book's called "Suppressed Transmission", by Kenneth Hite, and is produced by Steve Jackson Games. [ISBN 1-55634-423-6]. It's an expanded compilation of the Hite columns from Pyramid. Curiously enough they present it as a 'generic supplement' - so that it has no official tie with GURPS. The fact that practically each page carries at leas one reference to one GURPS handbook or other was evidently overlooked or considered unimportant. My impressions from skimming through it and reading a few chapters.... Pros . Wide variety of Conspiracy-oriented informations . Offbeat tone and amusing style . Good, ample and varied bibliography and resources section . Lots of useful ideas . Good artwork overall - better than the average GURPS book, IMHO . Introduction by John Tynes Cons . Strong Anglocentric interest - too scarce or sketchy references to non-Anglophone conspiracies and weirdness . Kitchen sink approach (but some might consider this apro) Final opinion: This one is most of all a good starting point to develop an original conspiracy setting, as it throws at you some rarely mentioned weird facts. It gives you a summary of the basics, plus lots of pointers for you to do your own research. I'll certainly use some bits off this to spice my games and give a run for their money to a pair of players of mine that normally check through Altavista all the weird references I throw at them. And this is it, I guess. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:17 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Delta Green not horror? In a message dated 4/6/00 10:35:35 PM Central Daylight Time, dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: > Not necessarily - people seem to have a great fascination with lost causes. > > As for Feng Shui - the game encourages you to become a member of the > Dragons. The Dragons are hip, the Dragons are cool. The Dragons arise > again and again, to battle oppression and wrong. The Dragons are always > destroyed utterly by their foes, time and time again. > Point taken. I think what I was trying to go for is the fact that Feng Shui, or really most games on the market, is a lot more upbeat in theme; it's good against evil, et al. Whereas in Delta Green, with the whole uncaring cosmos bit, if you emphasize the unwinnability of the conflict too much, people will stop playing. People generally play to have fun; it's not very fun to be thwarted at every turn by Invincible Minions Of Evil. Just my opinion, Ed From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Crossingham, Adam [Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:21 AM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: DG: RE: Interesting reading I too picked up Ken Hite's "Suppressed Transmission" and was mildly amused by the way everything links to everything else. Definitely one for delving. I'll second Davide's recommendation. -- Adam Crossingham 02 05 10 14 18 43 Home e-mail: zodiac@theblackseal.org Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie In a message dated 4/7/00 2:36:06 AM Central Daylight Time, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > Failing that, perhaps Sylvester McCoy? > > (10p oints to anyone who knows THAT actor...) > > > > He played Harry Pimm in "3 Kinds of Heat" [ USA 1987 / Directed by Leslie > Stevens > ]. Not to my knowledge, no. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:25 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie In a message dated 4/7/00 4:47:11 AM Central Daylight Time, nerva@escape.com writes: > SYLVESTER MCCOY AS ALZIS? I can't fit my mind around that... but I"ve only > seen him on.... well,... you know... :::Hums that eerily catchy and strangely appealing piping music::: I think he could pull it off. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Robert Thomas [ThomasR@Cardiff.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:30 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: ObDG [ Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering ] > Ah, come on, don't be too strict. This casting game was pretty amusing > and it even had at least some DG relevance since it was a great way to > tell the other on the list just how you imagine your favourite NPCs to > look like. > > And when you compare it to the as legendary as infamous "Starship > Troopers/Heinlein a Fascist"-Thread....shudder... I wasn't too worried about it it was only a hint! but just a list of NPCs and actors isn't really that thrilling (ok I smiled at some of the suggestions) Sorry if Jonathan took offense it was not meant as a go at him more a plea for sanity on behalf of everyone on the list. Over the last week or so there have been a lot of "me too" posts adding one line to a previous message and posting the entire previous e-mail all I want is a bit more thought, people is that too much to ask? Or do I have to go get the MiB? Rob "ohh the plea for sanity dollar - huge market" ObDG: A bit more info for the Fetus scenario a current UK issue: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_703000/703133.stm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie At 08:22 AM 4/7/00 EDT, you wrote: > >Not to my knowledge, no. > > He was Dr Whooooooooooo!!!! And he's coming back to play him again on the radio! ObDG: Has anyone used any Who stuff as inspiration for DG? Great Lovecraftian stories like the Horror at Fang Rock and Image of the Fendal (sp?) spring to mind. Jonathan (Hiding behind the sofa til the Daleks go away) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:48 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: ObDG [ Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering ] At 01:29 PM 4/7/00 GMT0BST, you wrote: >Sorry if Jonathan took offense it was not meant as a go at him >more a plea for sanity on behalf of everyone on the list. No, no! I didn't take offense at all! I save that for a blistering once a week venting of the spleen. I often write short messages because I don't get time to compose more in-depth stuff at work. Sorry. But I try and trim my quotes, personally. I think if one useful thing came out of this thread it might be a wish-list of a cast. Just to compare and contrast how we picture and visualise the characters in the DG universe. Personally, a lot of players I know use actors as a form of short-hand in their character description. ``Michael Keaton in a cheap black suit'' or whatever. Jonathan (Still behind the sofa in case the MiB IS called) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Austin Chamberlain [austin@light.mth.uct.ac.za] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Delta Green not horror? On Fri, Apr 07, 2000 at 08:17:03AM -0400, EdDrWho@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/6/00 10:35:35 PM Central Daylight Time, > dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu writes: > > > Not necessarily - people seem to have a great fascination with lost causes. > > > > As for Feng Shui - the game encourages you to become a member of the > > Dragons. The Dragons are hip, the Dragons are cool. The Dragons arise > > again and again, to battle oppression and wrong. The Dragons are always > > destroyed utterly by their foes, time and time again. > > Point taken. > I think what I was trying to go for is the fact that Feng Shui, or really > most games on the market, is a lot more upbeat in theme; it's good against > evil, et al. > Whereas in Delta Green, with the whole uncaring cosmos bit, if you emphasize > the unwinnability of the conflict too much, people will stop playing. People > generally play to have fun; it's not very fun to be thwarted at every turn by > Invincible Minions Of Evil. > Weeell, it's possible for DG agents to fight, and push the darkness back ... for another day. Victories can be won, but they are short-term, and don't affect the ultimate outcome. A prime example is Tiger Transit from DG:CD. They're the new kids on the block, and DG can stomp on them with only moderate difficulty. Sure, DG has saved many lives and prevented not a little Mythos infestation - but the Endtimes will still roll around. Austin -- These hands!! I can't get them off my wrists!! Oh, God!! - Happy Noodle Boy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MARTIN WOLFF [martin_wolff@globalcrossing.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:11 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie > ObDG: Has anyone used any Who stuff as inspiration for DG? Great > Lovecraftian stories like the Horror at Fang Rock and Image of the Fendal > (sp?) spring to mind. > I always thought that 'The Pyramids of Mars' would work. It had a cultist, a portal and an intergalactic badie (the god Set) imprisioned. Martin. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:20 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, MARTIN WOLFF wrote: > > ObDG: Has anyone used any Who stuff as inspiration for DG? Great > > Lovecraftian stories like the Horror at Fang Rock and Image of the Fendal > > (sp?) spring to mind. > > > > I always thought that 'The Pyramids of Mars' would work. It had a cultist, a > portal > and an intergalactic badie (the god Set) imprisioned. Then there's The Seeds of Death (IIRC).... Seeds discovered in Antarctic. One infects a researcher who turns into... something, but is disposed of. The other is stolen my a cultistic plant phreak who grows it into a giant alien carniverous plant that even has tentacles. The Daemons might also be workable as DG inspiration. And isn't UNIT's job rather DG-like overall? Dave From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Movie Cast (so far) Well, aside from the technical problems of (a) coming up with the big-budget bankroll, and (b) the fact that several of the key players are _DEAD_, I think that Fred Ward is being overlooked. -Ken- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David Farnell [daf@iwa.att.ne.jp] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 7:58 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering From: Davide Mana > The interesting bit is - sports hooligans in Italy are easily recruited > when there's some noise to be made. > The ultra-left anarch punks are manifesting against the Opera Opening Gala > Night? > You can bet that a small contingent of football hooligans will show in with > crowbars and other implements just to rise hell. One of the great things about Japan is that it seems to be singularly lacking in sports hooligans (although when the local baseball team, the Fukuoka Daiei Hawks, won the series against all odds for the first time in ages last year, people were jumping naked into the river downtown--but I didn't hear of anyone getting hurt). For left-wing-bashing (or any other kind of bashing) fun, the far-right ultranationalists do the job. While they usually just use intimidation (specializing in huge, armored, black trucks with bone-shattering speaker systems), they will occasionally whip out the wooden swords and do some real bone-breaking, and sometimes use real swords on politicians unwise enough to suggest publicly that Japan might have been the bad guy in that little fight 55 years ago. Thing is, these guys are supported by the politicians, in partnership with the yakuza. Since everyone hates them, if you're running for office and you want to make the other guy look bad, you can pay them to drive their trucks around, loudly "supporting" your rival! Then everyone associates your rival with fascist bullyboys and yakuza stooges. > The city thing is just a reinforcing element, as it carries the usual > aggravating elements of racism and parochialism and a ready-made them/us > element. Another oddity: To a great extent, the home city of sports team in Japan doesn't seem to matter much. But maybe that's just my experience, as all the teams in every sport from Fukuoka have sucked for so long (the Hawks being a recent surprise). Lots of people in cities all over the country are Giants fans, or Tigers fans, or Swallows fans. Perhaps it has to with the fact that Japanese teams are far more corporate--and nobody's going to riot over Nippon Ham. Regarding soccer, it may have to with the fact that there are no Japanese teams worth being fans of (and to think we're hosting half of the World Cup). People usually cheer their hometown boy in sumo more than usual, but I can't imagine rioting over sumo--it's so dignified. (You have to be dignified when you're a huge blubbery guy wearing a thick g-string, or it will quickly devolve into the most piteous comedy.) Several of the few riots here have been have centered on foreign players, though--a foreign pitcher beaning a Japanese batter, for instance. ObDG: Use your yakuza connections to send in the bully boys, without telling them that they're hitting a cult hideout instead of a Socialist Party meeting. Whoever gets killed, you've made the world a better place. Dave Join us! http://n.ethz.ch/student/hankef/DeltaGreen/tshirt.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:43 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Montecassino In a message dated 4/7/00 2:25:25 AM Central Daylight Time, j.turner@irishnews.com writes: << Vivien (the spiky-haired medical student/sociopath) is reading a comic. And Rik (the limp-wristed middle-class sociology student) asks him what it is. Vivien replies: ``SS death camp troopers go to Montecassino for the massacre''. >> Hmmm, sounds like Sven Hassel has finally reached 4color comics. -Ken- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steve Allison [sallison@netcomuk.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:47 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Delta Green not horror? Randell wrote: >"And they go insane. But put a .357 into a character's hand along >with a badge and a cell phone and it gives them hope. Not horror." > I'm still mulling over this particular argument. What do you guys > think? I don't find it very convincing. Firstly, the DG setting is hopeless, explicitly so in fact: "Our fate is told in the stars themselves. Our lives have no meaning, our world has no hope". Quite how the reviewer managed to deduce that the DG setting is relatively hopeful compared to the 1920s setting I'm not sure. IMHO, that quote really is the bottom line as far as the DG setting goes, and against that background any number of minor successes are insignificant; the efforts of DG may keep the patient alive through one more night, but the patient's condition remains terminal. Secondly, yes, there will be successes to celebrate, but there always were in the 1920s setting, and also in some of Lovecrafts stories. DG Agents may even believe that they can save the day, and why not? That doesn't mean that the setting per se is 'hopeful' and therefore not horror - dashed hope is a staple of the horror genre, isn't one of the features of horror (particularly Lovecraft's brand) that it steadily erodes hope? (or perhaps that is what horror *is*). As far as most of the mythos being put behind the scenes, I think that is neccesary for a modern setting to work - the greater part of the setting must seem normal (i.e. real) in order for the elements of horror to be really effective. If there were too many monsters running about, then the sense of the workd being real would be lost, and so I think players would be more likely to react to them more like they would in a fantasy game, say. DG's moving the monsters out of the limelight, and highlighting instead mans inhumanity to man (IMHO) was exactly the right thing to do for a game hoping to create a credible modern day horror background. I also think that while it is a move away from the way HPL wrote in the 20s, it may not be too far removed from what he might write if he were writing now - which is what I personally try (largely unsuccessfully I fear!) to achieve for when running games of DG / CoC Now. Steve -- Stephen Allison sallison@netcomuk.co.uk From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steve Allison [sallison@netcomuk.co.uk] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:01 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering > And let's not forget that many towns have two or more teams - and the > racist, them/us engine is at work even there! Often more so than elsewhere. The rivalry between Glasgow's two teams, Rangers and Celtic, is notorious. People are killed for wearing the wrong shirts in the wrong parts of town from time to time. There, the rivallry is strongly linked to religion - Rangers is the protestant team, Celtic is for catholics. Sadly, I think that this footballing rivalry just acts as a support for sectarian intolerance in the city (and to some extent across the rest of Scotland), and ends up indoctinating people with careless prejudices. And I do believe that people are picking up these prejudices from football, bot bringing them with them (though of course the majority of supporters of the two sides are quite blameless). Not so long ago one of Scotland's top lawyers was disgraced for being filmed singing secterian songs at a celebration following Rangers' winning of some trophy or another. Whilst noone suggested that his professional decisions had been clouded by prejudice, the very fact that football gave some degree of legitimacy to his behaviour seems absurd. ObDG (that's 'Obligatory Delta-Green, BTW!): Gangs of soccer hooligans provide a ready made and easy to find source of muscle. Some gangs (e.g. the 'Chelsea Headhunters', active in the 1980s) were large and well organised. Many have a racist agenda and would be ideal fall guys for Special K operations in Europe. They recruit at football grounds where they distribute their literature. It is possible that they could muster a large number of people very quickly. [ObEnglishDefensiveness: AFAIK, gangs like the Headhunters don't operate on anything like the same scale in the UK as they used to in the 80s, anyone found distributing racist literature at a football game would be in *big* trouble I suspect] Steve. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 8:55 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Movie Cast (so far) Not that he's dead, mind you... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:12 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: RE: Interesting reading Adam wrote: > I too picked up Ken Hite's "Suppressed Transmission" and was mildly amusedby the way everything links to everything else. Definitely one for delving. I'll second Davide's recommendation. Ken's also written NIGHTMARES OF MINE, a useful guide for people running horror RPG campaigns. Ostensibly a Rolemaster supplement, it didn't have rules references in the quick skim I did, also has an excellent bibliography (I want Ken Hite's library), and I recommend it for novices as well as experienced Keepers. More detailed review, um, later. I've got to track down an elusive player for the next session of LIFE DURING WARTIME this Saturday. Steven From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:19 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie At 02:19 PM 4/7/00 +0100, you wrote: >And isn't UNIT's job rather DG-like overall? > The inestimable, the incomparable, the incredible Rik Kershaw-Moore had a template for UNIT on his pre-COUNTDOWN website. PISCES I suppose fills a similar function, but Codrington is hardly the Brigadier... ``Sergeant Benton! That scaly green chap choking the professor! Five rounds rapid! Quick as you like!'' JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering At 02:00 PM 4/7/00 +0100, you wrote: >ObDG (that's 'Obligatory Delta-Green, BTW!): Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ;-) Many have a racist agenda and would be ideal fall guys for Special K operations in Europe. They recruit at football grounds where they distribute their literature. It is possible that they >could muster a large number of people very quickly. Connected to your excellent point about Rangers and Celtic. Many English football fans have connections with groups like Combat 18, who in turn have very strong and well-documented links with loyalist terrorists here in Northern Ireland. So the Special K spread that particular net very wide indeed. Any Rangers and Celtic match brings parts of Belfast to boiling point too. Jonathan From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nerva Vels [nerva@escape.com] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:24 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sports hooliganism and social engineering a brief memory is sparked by Steve's comment: Two years ago, in that incredibly lovely city call Buenos Aires, my friend and I were traveling to La Boca, the most colorful (dead serious - buildings are in primary colors!) neighborhood. The stench from the Riachuelo didn't take away from the charm (okay, obviously touristy, but it was lovely anyway). Suddenly the streets started filling up with police. In this country, it's military past is so recent you could FEEL the tension rising. I turned to my friend (she was living there) and she had no clue (she, like me, is American). We decided, in the interest of self-preservation, to take a cab back to her apartment. We asked the cabby why the increased presence of the police. "Oh, there's a 'futbol' game going on, between the La Boca team and (can't remember who else)." We looked at each other blankly, and then, we realized just HOW fiercely and seriously soccer is taken here.... Needless to say, we practically begged the man to fly us home. We passed the stadium JUST as the last goal was made. We didn't go out that night either!!! ObDG: Nice cover a good nasty soccer match and aftermath would be to rid oneself of anyone or anything needing of disposal without reprisals. Serious investigative ones, anyway. Nervy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of David.Clements [David.Clements@astro.cf.ac.uk] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: > At 02:19 PM 4/7/00 +0100, you wrote: > >And isn't UNIT's job rather DG-like overall? > > > > The inestimable, the incomparable, the incredible Rik Kershaw-Moore had a > template for UNIT on his pre-COUNTDOWN website. PISCES I suppose fills a > similar function, but Codrington is hardly the Brigadier... But if there were a UN equivalent to DG, then perhaps UNIT might be a template... Of course the turf battles between them and, say, MJ12 and PISCES might be a campaign all on their own! > ``Sergeant Benton! That scaly green chap choking the professor! Five rounds > rapid! Quick as you like!'' Just as in CoC, bullets usually did nothing to the beasties on Dr. Who. Another similarity! :-)