From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Juneau [djuneau@io.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 7:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 PaganArt@aol.com wrote: > I must say, I love to see all this talk about OUR DARKEST HOUR, especially > since so much of it seems to be "They'll never pull it off". Truth be told, I > love a challenge. Huh. I know I'm not reading *every* post but I've yet to see that. My own opinion, of course, is "not only will Pagan pull it off. they'll beat us to death with the wet end of it..." Let's face it, you have some damn picky customers... they weren't satisifed with all of the original Chaosium stuff, and so flocked (spooged?) their way to TUO and the rest of the early stuff. They wanted more, and found it in DELTA GREEN. They gibbered and meeped until the chapbooks were in their rugose appendages. They flayed their own skins to adorn the cover of DG:COUNTDOWN. And still they're picky sonsabitches who would *love* it if DG:THEIR DARKEST HOUR fits their own tastes *just right*. (Ask Me About My Ego!) It doesn't matter. Why? Because even if you retroactively edit World War Two into something *totally* unrecognisable, we'll still *buy* it. And *love* it. Because it'll be one kick-ass book! (Or two, if it gets much bigger... ) Is it going to be everything to everyone? Hell no... but even if you rip out all the DG-specific bits and patch it into your hacked SteamPunk/Traveller alternate universe WWII, it's still going to be one massive bastard of a resource. You may buy it to weigh down your game-shelf and scare small children. You muy it for the art. But if there's anything that can be sure in these End Times, it's that you *will* buy it! (Sign me up for two, guys... I gives 'em away to friends.) I'm not even gonna ask about DG:TDH contents like the proportion of European vs. Pacific Theatre material, Unit 731, balloon bombs, Japanese nukes, Allied complicity in hiding war crimes so they could use the criminals themselves, possible connections to the Honda Point and Port Chicago disasters, automated German weather stations in Greenland and Canada, Ithaqua's influence of the Aleutian campaign, the Mythos reason behind Iwo Jima, Stillwell's recruitment of Tcho-Tchos in Burma, the rate of pneumopulmonary afflictions in Malaysia, ghoul tunnels from the Rock of Gibraltar to North Africa, "foo fighters", funky secret weapons developments that would *never* work with *our* understanding of science, and other such page-filling goodies... > P.S> Just needed to blow off some steam... Sorry guys. 's'cool, d00d. Don From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Purple Kat [kringskeep@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 7:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sylvester McCoy >In a message dated 00-04-07 03:36:06 EDT, you write: > ><< > Failing that, perhaps Sylvester McCoy? > > (10p oints to anyone who knows THAT actor...) >> > > Wasn't he, like, Dr. Who # 7 or like that there? > > Never mind the 10 points, where's my T-shirt and tote bag? > >Mark McFadden > Watching the KCET telethon > Forget the T-shirt and tote bag. Where is my appearing Tardis coffee mug??? Purple Kat ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Don Juneau [djuneau@io.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 7:41 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: World War Two chemical weapons On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Jonathan Turner wrote: > Just asking around about the use of chemical weapons in WWII. I can't think > off-hand of any occasion when they were used in battle. Were they? Uhm. I have some vague recollection of Italian use of mustard gas in Ethiopia, but that may have been pre-war or I could be losing my ind, either way. Oh, and at one point in the battle for Italy, the US had a shipload of gas shells parked in a harbour just in time for a Luftwaffe raid; I forget how many years it was before they admitted it... I have a different vague recollection about gassing Iwo Jima (or some other Last Stand Fortress) and announcing that it was the result of a Death Ray Secret Weapon... *that* one may be entirely fiction, tho, and I've not the faintest of where it came from. (Something I read years ago...) Don From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Napoleon48@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 7:48 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: [DG: Pissing in the Pool] <<<,Pagan *will* pull it off. >>>> Oh no they won't. Your wrong. Pagan has *already* pulled it off. Their unfinished work is probably still awesome. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 8:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Sylvester McCoy In a message dated 4/10/00 7:40:07 PM Central Daylight Time, kringskeep@hotmail.com writes: > Forget the T-shirt and tote bag. Where is my appearing Tardis coffee mug??? When I get one, you'll get one. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 8:56 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: the movie In a message dated 4/10/00 5:24:49 AM Central Daylight Time, daf@iwa.att.ne.jp writes: > ObDG: Alphonse takes a page from Vlad Tepes and gets the ball rolling on > Delta Green: The Movie--a massive disinformation effort to make sure that > nobody will ever believe in DG, even if it's "outed" by some reporter > eventually. (This is just Phase Two--the game supplements were Phase One.) > The casting is so star-studded and the plot so over-the-top-action/adventure I've got this all-worked out. Action Film Synopsis: (OPENING THEME: "Whirlpool" by Young Fresh Fellows) Some wierd Island in the pacific has risen from the sea bed, and Cell D (For Doomsday, of course) is sent to deal with it. Cell D is: Sergeant Hafner (Arnold Schwarzenegger), a GSG Friendly, FBI Agent Judith "Danielle" Kranston (Gwyneth Paltrow), U.S. Marshall Vincent "Davide" Larkin (John Cusack), and NSA Operative Walter "Dexter" Croeng (Gene Hackman). They borrow a _Los Angeles_ class submarine (USS Providence, of course), and set course. En route, they're attacked by Deep Ones (MUSIC: "What The Water Gave Me" by Cub/The Potatomen). Beating them off, they arrive at R'Lyeh just in time for the reawakening. Cultists ambush the sub as it surfaces (surplus Grisha III patrol boat as Cultist ship), and most of the crew goes mad, leaving Our Heroes to duke it out with the Star Spawn and The Big C hisself (MUSIC: "Dig My Grave" by They Might Be Giants). In a bold act of self-sacrifice, Hafner detonates a nuke underwater, causing R'Lyeh to sink, and allowing Cell D to escape and prepare for the sequel. (END THEME: "Keep Hope Alive" by The Cure) From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 8:58 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie In a message dated 4/10/00 6:56:07 AM Central Daylight Time, Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM writes: > And then he gets Shanned... then we have trans-temporal and > trans-spacial Shan. Oh dear. I dinna think so. That Gallifreyan will and lead-lined helmet stopped the Vardans, it'll stop the Shan. If worse comes to worse, the Sonic Screwdriver has a "trepann" setting. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: ODH Power limits [was RE: DG: Montecassino] In a message dated 4/10/00 12:14:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, furrylogic@mindspring.com writes: << WW2-era Delta Green takes that limitation away, and that could make OUR DARKEST HOUR campaigns easily degenerate into Wolfenstein 3D: The RPG. That's what I'm concerned about. Not heavily concerned, but shit, it's better than that damn movie thread. >> Tsk tsk. That should be "I like it better than that damn movie thread", which is not as provocative and seems closer to an "objective" truth. There is an easy way to confound your WW2 players with munchkin reflexes. Let them arrange for a Mosquito strike or Commando reinforcements. Then,after they are in country, have "cooler heads" above their rabbis in the Chain of Command prevail and change all the priorities back to what they were before the team left. Or agree to a radioed request for backup and then don't deliver. SNAFU, life's a bitch innit? Or have the Commandos land at the wrong site. Let the bombers miss. Have the wind change and put your reinforcements down in the town square full of Special K (as in The Longest Day). Thoroughly miss the massive AA protection of the site (asking for more recent photo recon instead of Commandos would have saved some lives). There is many a slip twixt the requisition and the delivery. Mark McFadden Adds to the verisimilitude as well. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: the movie In a message dated 4/10/00 2:00:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << I agree with that - this isn't a vehicle for film stars. In fact the only way I could see Delta Green - the movie" being made effectively is on a shoestring budget with no stars and very, very, few SFX. >> I forgot who originally suggested using unknowns, but there was another element in that post that I really really liked. S/He said to put all the stars at the beginning and then kill them *all* and do the rest of the movie with unknowns. Now, this thread is pretty much like fantasy baseball, we are not casting a movie and the most say we would get in the matter would be what we write on the response cards at a sneak preview. But, I am interested in *why* people make their choices. Often, it's just "this is my favorite director so I think s\he should direct", but sometimes you get something like the above. Now, I'd go to the mat over that point (of course, I'm willing to go to the mat for most things, it's quicker and surer than reason :-)). It just suits IMHO. I'd do all stars for a Cowboy Years prologue, show Fairfield's Last Stand and then unknowns from then on. Sorta like Kubrick having Halloran killed within a minute of arriving at the Overlook. Then, even people who had read the book didn't know what was going to happen next. That's one way a master filmmaker creates suspense. Mark McFadden Suspense is the line waiting for the horror rollercoaster. The ride just isn't as good without some an-tici - (say it!) pation. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Creeping longevity In a message dated 4/10/00 8:49:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Adam.Crossingham@Octavian1009.E-MAIL.COM writes: << Did you tell that pock-marked so-and-so who tried to talk to you that you were eating, and not only that, retired as well? >> Yeah, but I couldn't understand his reply. Something about guy-gin pen-day-ho and getting my yar-bulls smashed, if I had any. Mark McFadden When talking to foreigners, I find direct dialogue works better than voiceover. You can say everything s-l-o-w-e-r and LOUDER. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: ODH Power limits [was RE: DG: Montecassino] In a message dated 4/10/00 6:24:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << [Anybody read the recent 'Unknown Soldier' comic from DC?] >> I never miss anything written by Garth Ennis. Does anyone feel up to a comics thread? Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Some Questions In a message dated 4/10/00 2:36:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: Second on Cuckoo's Egg. For those interested in the history of the revolution, you can't go wrong with Hackers by (Stephen ?) Levy No, not a novelization of that, uh, movie. A history of the wonks and dweebs and weird loners who started it all. He begins with the model train hobbyists at MIT who studied phone company techniques to create train switching systems who started hacking the phone system. Or the programmer\engineers who discovered that the spare console for the mainframe was a self-contained computer. Licensed locksmiths all, they would pick locks, climb through ceilings, raid desks for combinations, trash dive; whatever it took to get *access*. The book follows some of them into the heady days of Apple and Sierra. Bob and Roberta in loco parentis for a staff of kids living in empty homes on choice Colorado real estate, furnished with mattresses and beanbag chairs and a card table with the current war game in progress. Thursdays off for skiing. Hacker heaven. Not so much about the machines or code as the people who built them. Lots of inspirations for characters. << c . be able to read Italian (hi, Mark!) >> I'll Alta Vista anything into submission. Mark McFadden Il Re Delle Lucertole Rimanendo fresco, rimanendo freddo. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Tickling the Dragon's tail In a message dated 4/10/00 2:07:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, andywrobertson@clara.co.uk writes: << Who stared, into what abyss, and decided to push that block a millimeter too far? >> Bookmark that thought. I've got some meditations on the death wish, but they are still in progress. But I do have an experiment that I in no way shape or form recommend for anyone to do. Someone note that I said that, I live in the US. Assuming you don't have vertigo, inner ear problems or acrophobia; you could go to a very high place. The best place to experiment is some place to stand with solid footing and no rail. Then, if you wiggle your toes out over the edge, you could look straight down without losing balance if there is no wind. Holding on to something doesn't lessen the effect, so long as there is nothing between you and the edge. If you look for awhile the electrical sensation should pass and you should be able to look without fear. Then it gets interesting. Most people who have done this experiment report the persistent thought of jumping. Some have even found themselves flexing at the knee or in some other way preparing to jump. I know I have. That is why I do not recommend performing this experiment. Do what thou wilt and all, but I'd probably miss your input. Look, I write cute and all, but I'm not kidding around with this. Do not do it on a lark or while in any but the most pleasant moods. In the DG world, this is what makes us want to go to Carcosa when we hear about it. In the RW, damn if I know, I'm suspicious of anything claiming to be an answer. But you can bet I went back to Odysseus hearing the siren's song, and I feel the ancients could hear voices better than most of us can. There was less noise pollution to filter out. The point of this is to raise your awareness of the death wish. You can theorize and discuss, but I don't think you can understand it viscerally without experiencing it without a mask. John Lilley was nearly killed by an unconscious action that he credits to his own death wish. I really don't know what to make of it yet. In either RW or DG. Except dramatically. I do have an NPC\fictional character that does this periodically. He does it as a symbolic act. When he steps away from the edge, he always notes that he is alive because he chooses to be, not out of habit. "Today is a shitty day to die." Mark McFadden From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of LizardRoi@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:42 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: ODH Power limits [was RE: DG: Montecassino] In a message dated 4/10/00 11:20:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, furrylogic@mindspring.com writes: << However, DG Y2K is perfectly set up to maintain that Lovecraftian atmosphere of "alone against the Mythos" by limiting government agent PCs from falling back upon their own official resources; but, this list still brings out a huge power inflation (mini-subs, ultralights, etc) that shouldn't be there. >> How does using an unarmored powered kite constitute power inflation? The only warlike acts I ever described (in the serious part after the joke) were dropping hand grenades from it or firing a machine gun from it *as a diversion*. Although I made the mistake of mentioning Puff the Magic Dragon, mounting a minigun on an ultralight is silly, because along with all of the other obvious restrictions you cannot lift enough ammo to make it worthwhile. That's why I said a .50cal on a sling, an M-60 perhaps (?). Don't plan on hitting anything, just hose in their direction with tracers to get them looking behind them while your team approaches unseen over open ground. Mark McFadden Emphatically NOT a powergamer and probably one of the stingiest Keepers about. But I do admire resourcefulness and, in fact, encourage it by promising them anything and delivering nothing much. You know, like every other organization you've ever encountered. The dice roll said the request was granted, it said nothing about anyone following through on the promise. Luck roll anyone? "Sorry, my bad. The Logistics Desk is a shambles since Agent Radar ate his own hands. How many people did you lose?" Of course, there is also the unseen negotiations that have left your team hanging out to dry "for the greater good." Alphonse seems like a nice enough guy, so I'm sure he'll agonize over abandoning you to your fates or ingenuity, after he abandons you to your fates or ingenuity. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Chris Pencis [cpencis@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 10:10 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Some Questions Le Roi en Scales who's tagline got altalavista'd in English as The King Of the Lucertole Remaining fresh, remaining cold. (You are dabbling way to close to the edge my man... put down the Mentos and back away!) In DG relevance: I went and got _Nightmares of Mine_ by Hite from the local alternate bookshop/plane of existance... I am quite impressed and second the emotions previously expressed on the list. --- LizardRoi@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/10/00 2:36:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > doctor.dee@libero.it writes: > > Second on Cuckoo's Egg. > > For those interested in the history of the revolution, you can't go > wrong > with Hackers by (Stephen ?) Levy > No, not a novelization of that, uh, movie. A history of the wonks and > dweebs > and weird loners who started it all. He begins with the model train > hobbyists > at MIT who studied phone company techniques to create train switching > systems > who started hacking the phone system. Or the programmer\engineers who > discovered that the spare console for the mainframe was a self-contained > > computer. Licensed locksmiths all, they would pick locks, climb through > ceilings, raid desks for combinations, trash dive; whatever it took to > get > *access*. The book follows some of them into the heady days of Apple and > > Sierra. > Bob and Roberta in loco parentis for a staff of kids living in empty > homes > on choice Colorado real estate, furnished with mattresses and beanbag > chairs > and a card table with the current war game in progress. Thursdays off > for > skiing. Hacker heaven. > Not so much about the machines or code as the people who built them. > Lots of > inspirations for characters. > > << c . be able to read Italian (hi, Mark!) >> > > I'll Alta Vista anything into submission. > > Mark McFadden > Il Re Delle Lucertole > Rimanendo fresco, rimanendo freddo. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 11:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: World War Two chemical weapons At 07:40 PM 4/10/2000 -0500, Don wrote: >I have a different vague recollection about gassing Iwo Jima (or some >other Last Stand Fortress) and announcing that it was the result of a >Death Ray Secret Weapon... Aha! So YOU were the one! Amazing what you find out on this list... Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jason R. Armstrong [gerwalkveritech@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 12:10 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool Re: OUR DARKEST HOUR... I have faith. Even if I can level post-purchase criticism at it from here 'til next week, I am pretty sure that I (and I hope everyone else) will love it. Actually, skip the "even if" part. I know dick-all about WW2, and am very credulous concerning much of it. Chances are, I will be wowed by this product, with no reservations. Others may have reservations, but they will probably like it a lot, too. It will not be a dull product, I think anyone can agree. Nor do I think any reasonably hardass Paganic effort will be construed as a "fuck up". Am I wrong? Are there nameless Pagan releases that people say, "Aw, man, what were they thinking?", when they're mentioned? I'm reasonably new, so perhaps this is the case. But not so far as I _know_, nobody says that. I mean, I know I bitched about cover art once, but I don't think I remember a _whole_ product that I had any grounds for disliking. So, I'm looking forward to it. And (he said, muscles tensing in an almost- sexual reaction at the very thought) also the MYSTERIES OF MESOAMERICA, which I intend to preorder. But hey, I think this thread is fun, too. Remember the thread pulling apart the Shan biology and history, after everyone had just seen COUNTDOWN? There wwas a lot of "Well, I think it should have been clarified that..." blah blah blah. What the subtext of even the most aggressive criticism said was, "Hey, this segment made me think about X subject along Z lines; I've got my own ideas that..." It was a great book, and the volume of reaction, positive and negative, is evidence towards that. re: WW2 propaganda. My friend Jesse just got a big poster version of that caricature they showed in (Time? Life?) back in the war. A cartoon of a hawknosed Obergruppenfuhrer (or whatever), cigarrette-holder clenched in his teeth. In the reflection on his monocle, you can see the swinging form of some poor hanged peasant. Caption underneath, in scary gothic font: THIS IS THE ENEMY. Goddamn, I'm a sucker for that stuff. xJAYx "It already started In the city, Suburbia, Will be just as easy- Let's have a war. Sell the rights to the networks." -FEAR ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Daniel Harms [dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 12:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Delta Green not horror? At 03:21 PM 4/9/2000 EDT, Eckhardt wrote: > Just wanted to throw out some thoughts. I am not attempting to attack >anyone or thing in particular or start a flame war, so keep that in mind when >you read. Truly not attempting to make anyone mad :) Fine by me. > Here I do see your point but don't completely agree with it. Every piece >of fiction, game supplement or campaign is going to have a certain amount of >"fluff" added to it, both for realism and because of personal interest. >While Lovecraft was no gunfondler and also attempted to live in a bygone age >in his own times, he still added his own "fluff" to his stories. Yes, he did - but all fluff is not created equal. There's the sort of material that's background data, that enriches a setting - much of Lovecraft's architecture stuff is that, and even gun material can do that. And then there's the attitude that foregrounds that material. If Lovecraft's narrator spent several paragraphs sitting outside a house and commenting on the likely age of the gambrel roof, and that spider-web panel in the fanlight is one that's original to Salem, and - well, you get the picture. >Adding a level of >detail doesn't necessarily add a level of hope or change the underlying >themes as long as they are handled correctly by those involved. First, anything in a RPG can be "handled correctly" by the right GM. But, if I may, let me follow my argument a little further. I took a look at the number of types of hand-held firearms in a few RPGs I've got lying around here (and don't look at me - it only took 10 minutes), and we've got more firearms in DG than in some top-selling action games. Of course, my hat's off to Mr. Crowe for his research on this one, and CoC fans are known for their love of accuracy. But isn't it a little odd that the largest list is in a game in which guns supposedly don't matter? ;-) > Again, the human element is not necessarily the antithesis of >Lovecraftian horror because of its focus. First, the setting tends to show >humanity entering the last phases of its interaction with the Lovecraftian >universe. We have become "as the Great Old Ones" and are writhing in the >chaos that brings. We are already over the abyss and don't even see it. Perhaps. But how far has that analogy been taken in the setting? I'm not exactly sure on that one. Within a conspiracy framework, one of the assumptions is that the people are largely innocent and would undoubtedly rise up against the few who have hidden the Truth. Yet if humanity as a whole is on its way to being like the Great Old Ones, then it's not innocent after all, and we don't have to worry about those covering up the Truth - everyone is on their way to it already. >Delta Green is just a modern reflection of >the same sort of shadowy group that Lovecraft himself was building up within >the halls of Miskatonic. He used an academic network and it wasn't as >developed as DG's but it was there nonetheless. Joseph Camp is our Henry >Armitage. Wilmarth, Peaslee, Dyer and so on are the "cell" leaders of >Lovecraft. Even the way Asenath Waite is hinted at in gaming and fictional >sources suggests a DG-Alzis sort of relationship. In some ways, yes - though I'd say the model is less of a group of people fighting against the Mythos, but of those thrust into it and supported by their fellows. > Again, it is a matter of personal "fluff" and working with the source >material. I don't feel that the DG "canon" steps out of Lovecraft's vision >significantly. Individuals do put different twists on it, though but you >cannot fault the sources for what we do with it. One person may opt for the >techno-thriller bend to the campaign and another for pure Lovecraftian >vision. Delta Green in and of itself is not horror. It is merely a >blueprint for horror. As a gaming/fictional supplement and setting it is >absolutely great in this regard. Agreed on all counts. But my question is, even if it is a blueprint for horror, couldn't it be a blueprint for something else as well? And if it is a blueprint for horror, what sort of horror is it? >Also, some old >topics have resurfaced that I think would be interesting to reexplore, >especially with the recent growth of the list. This people are quickly told >to simply check the Ice Cave or archives and blown off. I agree that some >topics should be referred there (I mean there is very little to say on >Fuel-Air Explosives or other technical subjects once they've been explored) >but if we can return to DG movie topics or theme songs every few months and >engage in some of the off-topic threads we've had, appropriate topics should >be explored again, especially with new perspectives that might have arisen >from new memberships. I think a balance has to be struck on this - I really don't want another discussion of glazier rounds, for example. I think it might be proper to say, "Check the Ice Caves," adding, "Then come back here." > Also, it must be noted that the "fluff" factor and entertainment value >does play in here and that is a good thing. Like Lovecraft's love of >architecture or a Gunfondler's love of firearms, different topics will be of >different interest to different Keepers and authors. Of course. My question, though, is what is interesting to us? And why? And what does it have to do with horror? If something, then let's figure out what it is. If not, let's accept that and go on with business. > I disagree here. The mythos might be subtler but is still integral to >the setting. Technically, yes, you could change everything to suit CHILL or >AD&D but then again you could add the mythos to AD&D and change >the theme of a Forgotten Realms campaign to what it wasn't intended >to be, too. What would the Fate, Karotechia or Tiger Transit be without >their mythos connections? They would be another cliché Mafia, neo- >Nazi or CIA front group. I think they're a little more diverse than that - especially once you re-attach them to the occult. If I attached the spell system from UNKNOWN ARMIES OR ELRIC! to Alzis or Bitterich, it might affect the particulars of what they could do, but it probably wouldn't impact the players' views of them. Even without the Mythos, DG and MJ-12 would be organized in much the same way, their foes could still be powerful and difficult to stop... While the setting works with the Mythos, I don't think you can point to any one aspect of it and say, "This DEMANDS the presence of the Mythos." > We really would have to look at what constitutes Lovecraftian fiction, >here. Lovecraft wrote non-mythos stories. Are they Lovecraftian fiction in >this paradigm? The peers and followers of Lovecraft in fiction, are they >Lovecraftian? We have attached the term to many authors who wrote non->Mythos and try and take it from authors who have written mythos. Where >do you draw the line? Me, personally? I draw the line at HPL, though I do include most of his non-Dreamlands stuff, as well as "straight" supernatural stuff like "In the Vault". >CoC had to step outside that limited view to >make the game work, so DG going a step further doesn't seem to me to be an >erosion as much as an evolution. Or rather, both have to step outside HPL's view (which I don't consider limited) to work as RPGs. I think that, on one level, even the basic RPG model works against the notion of the uncaring universe of HPL's fiction. Yet I think that CoC, at its best (especially with some of its Lovecraft Country lines), has balanced the demands out nicely. As for DG, I don't see it as an evolution, but an interpretation. My focus here is on that interpretation, and how well it works as such. Yrs., Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu The Internet: Learn what you know. Share what you don't. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Philip A Posehn [paposehn@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 12:39 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool Relax Dennis, You've got such a good track record that what we would call "Fucking up" for you would be business as usual for some other game companies. Phil ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 2:12 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool To be honest I thought the "ODH Power Limits" - Thread to be just a thread about how WE would limit DG's power in a WWII campaign. To be even more honest I did not even think of your upcoming product. [ Since I did not get the idea that ODH should mean "Our darkest Hour. Stupid me ] Anyway: I consider talking about how one might handle a WWII campaign or the mood of such a campaign not to be preemptive criticism. Of course everyone of us does have different ideas about just what should be in the book. But that is nothing that should worry or even annoy you. Hey, that's the risk of working in a creative business and dealing with picky customers that consider themselves to be creative as well. Especially if some of them already did WWII campaigns. So, calm down, mates. Get the book ready as you planned it. Use our "criticism" if you want to. If not, even better, since our surprise will be even greater. Will we like your product? Don't know. Probably. Will we like everything? I don't think so, since tastes differ. Will we use every single thing you wrote? Definitely not. I love "DG:Countdown". But not everything about it. I loved the chapter about the "Skoptsi", but was a little bit dissappointed about the "GRU-SV8" chapter. Will I use everything as you wrote it? Nope. There will definitely never be a German character called "Urnst Udel". [ Where the hell did you get that "name" from?] And, honestly, I think when the book will be ready, the discussion about the contents will even be fiercer. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of DocHopt@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 3:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie ECKHARD scribuit: << Jack Nicholson is Stephen Alzis >> Eh, perhaps Kevin Spacey? Give him a suntan and an accent, it could work... Hopt is still behind. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of DocHopt@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 3:44 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie In a message dated 4/6/00 6:01:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: << Sean Connery is Doctor Joseph Camp >> What about Alan Arkin? Not very well-known, but a great character actor IMHO... Hopt From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of DocHopt@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 3:54 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: the movie In a message dated 4/6/00 10:13:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, j_holloway26@hotmail.com writes: << Huh. Note the predominance of male characters... we gotta get a sympathetic female character or even baddie in here somewhere. ANDREA does not qualify as "sympathetic." >> Hey, who would play the agent whose name I forget at the moment, from "ROE" and Alien Intelligence, the ghoul in human form? My vote's for Mira Sorvino... Hopt From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:19 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Some Questions > I second that. > Read Crackdown indeed. > And as you are at it, be sure also to check out I may be able to locate the .txt files as it was put out on the net. > . The Cuckoo's Egg [sorry, no more data handy - my copy was stolen] Excellent book, I loved the irrelevant story about the oral exam for the advanced degree in physics. > And check Bruce Bethke's 'Headcrash' just toadd some lighter touch > (yep, it's fiction). Outstanding book! I'm going to look for the rest of these! Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 2:53 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Encoding messages [snip] > Languages are not "codes" - they are something else entirely. It > might be > possible to break a public-key encripted message through (for > instance) > quantum computing within the next 20 years or so, but that would not > make it > possible to translate an unknown language. [snip] I heard a rumor that PGP had been cracked. It supposedly was done on a large ditributed network of volunteered machines and took a while. I don't have the details and cannot verify this myself, except to ask my source. Is there sufficient interest? The first time I ever encountered a language used as a code was in Frank Herbert's _Dune_ series, where the various Great Houses had their own battle languages. Herbert was probably inspired by the Navajo Code Talkers. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 2:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Re: the movie > So, get a hot young director and lie to him./her - > compel them > to create the thing with no SFX and no stars - and then maybe add a > few SFX > later. > Yeah, we could get Full Moon to back and distribute it direct-to-video then hunt for it in obscure, badly lit indy video stores that specialize in adult themes (and under the counter illegal drugs if you know the cashier). Never been played, only rented once! Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool For the record, I never mentioned the ODH book at all. I'm sure that it will be at least as good as the other excellent books. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 3:05 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Tickling the Dragon's tail > If you look for awhile the electrical sensation should pass and you > should > be able to look without fear. Then it gets interesting. Most people > who have > done this experiment report the persistent thought of jumping. Some > have even > found themselves flexing at the knee or in some other way preparing > to jump. > I know I have. That is why I do not recommend performing this > experiment. I have done this too, both for the "thrill" of looking over the edge and as part of my job ( I designed fire protection sprinkler systems once upon a time). While I did have the thought of what might happen if I fell, I never had a persistent thought of jumping. Do I just lack the "death wish" gene? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Austin Chamberlain [austin@light.mth.uct.ac.za] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Encoding messages On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 02:53:10AM -0500, forvalaka@juno.com wrote: > > [snip] > > Languages are not "codes" - they are something else entirely. It > > might be > > possible to break a public-key encripted message through (for > > instance) > > quantum computing within the next 20 years or so, but that would not > > make it > > possible to translate an unknown language. > [snip] > > I heard a rumor that PGP had been cracked. It supposedly was done on a > large ditributed network of volunteered machines and took a while. I > don't have the details and cannot verify this myself, except to ask my > source. Is there sufficient interest? > A specific PGP key was cracked, allowing a specific message (and possibly others encyphered with that same key) to be read. PGP remains as secure as ever, until such time as quantum computing, or a new algorithm for factoring large prime multiples, is developed. Check out distributed.net for details on distributed cracking of encryption. Austin -- These hands!! I can't get them off my wrists!! Oh, God!! - Happy Noodle Boy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Austin Chamberlain [austin@light.mth.uct.ac.za] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 4:42 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Some Questions On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 04:18:43AM -0500, forvalaka@juno.com wrote: > > > I second that. > > Read Crackdown indeed. > > And as you are at it, be sure also to check out > > I may be able to locate the .txt files as it was put out on the net. > http://www.eff.org/papers/hacker_crackdown/crack.html Austin -- These hands!! I can't get them off my wrists!! Oh, God!! - Happy Noodle Boy From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Janusz A. Urbanowicz [alex@bofh.torun.pl] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 5:41 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Encoding messages forvalaka@juno.com wrote/napisał[a]: > I heard a rumor that PGP had been cracked. It supposedly was done on a > large ditributed network of volunteered machines and took a while. I > don't have the details and cannot verify this myself, except to ask my > source. Is there sufficient interest? Yes, there's interest. Could you elaborate ? But I doubt it. Varius volunteer distributed computing efforts were used in the past to attack ciphers via brute-force cracking. Those were: RSA DSI (now RSA Inc.) DES Challenges I, II and III. Cracked by DNet. RSA DSI RC5 56bits (cracked by DNet) and 64 bits challenge (this one is being cracked now). RSA DSI RSA-129 (and 130 - I'm not sure). Cracked by Arjen Lenstra & friends. CSC company CSC challenge. Cracked by DNet. ? ECC (Elliptic Curve Cryptosystem) Challenge. Cracked lately. There were others I think but no public effort was done to crack IDEA, CAST, Blowfish, Twofish and 3DES ciphers used in PGP/GnuPG. References: DNet is Distributed.net http://distributed.net/ what was called 'Bovine' at the beginning. It attempts to be Internet's computing engine - there are preparations to solve mathematical problems (Optimum Golomb Rulers). DES I was also attacked by Sollentuna DES Challenge Team (SolNET) www.des.sollentuna.se. CSC was also attacked by DCipher http://dcipher.net or .com. Alex, SolNET veteran, now working for DNet. -- Janusz A. Urbanowicz | ALEX3-RIPE | SF-Framling | Thawte Web Of Trust Notary Gdy daję biednym chleb, nazywają mnie świętym. Gdy pytam, dlaczego biedni nie mają chleba, nazywają mnie komunistą. - abp. Helder Camara From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Steven Kaye [box_nine@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:16 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Pre-War Germany At 6:00 PM -0400 4/10/00, MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > > In the game I'm playing in right now, the Characters are about to be >parachuted into pre-war (1936) Germany for some anti-occult-SS operations, >and having stats for all the stuff likely to be encountered'd be nice . It's not stats, but you might want to check out Philip Kerr's Berlin Noir series. If memory serves, the first novel (March Violets) is set in 1936 and the second (The Pale Criminal) takes place in 1938. Of course, they're both set in Berlin, so I don't know if they'd meet your precise needs. Steven ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Steven Kaye box_nine@ix.netcom.com Reason - rationality - is a concentration camp, where the sets of concepts for surviving in a chaotic universe form vast, though finite, rows of huts, separated into blocks by electric fences, which the searchlights of Attention rove over, picking out now one group of huts, now another. Thoughts, like prisoners - imprisoned for their own security and safety - scurry and march and labour in a flat two-dimensional zone, forbidden to leap fences, gunned down by laser beams of madness and unreason if they try to. Ian Watson, THE EMBEDDING From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Nightstar [shepherd@infocom.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 7:28 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool >Again, thanks for the interest, but couldn't you give us even a little credit? >I don't think that's too much to ask. > >-Dennis Detwiller >Art Director "Freelance stress boy who now feels a little better" > >P.S> Just needed to blow off some steam... Sorry guys. Dear Mr. Detwiller: I am 48 years old and have been gaming since I was 18. I have, as a result of my education and profession, been exposed to many publications and projects. From the start, I have always been extremely impressed with Pagan Publications quality. So much so, I have placed a large order to catch up with your past releases based solely on the quality of Delta Green. I have no doubt that if it is coming from your company, it will be top quality. Thank you for providing the quality products that we with this obsession so direly need. Sincerely, David A. Shepherd RN BSN From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 7:22 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Operation:CATHOUSE conclusion? Greetings, looks like this is gong to be my last report on Operation:CATHOUSE. But first, for new listmembers, a short recap. Op:CATHOUSE is a real life investigation, concerning a mysterious drama being premiered in an ancient theatre here in Turin (Italy's most haunted town), about six months ago. Points of DG relevance: . the drama was written by a notorious political chameleon, variously involved with a number of shady connections in the old regime, and currently running for the Green Party. . the drama centers on the figure of Mary Magdalen, portrayes as 'Sacred Whore' and possible avatar of Ishtar, and the one and true carrier of the original Christian message. . the whole acting cast and a large chunk of the technical cast were fully committed Freemasons; non freemasons members of the tech cast complained about being left in the dark about much of what was to be done. . I can add Mark McFadden's observation that the director of the piece was Freemason sister Anna Cuculo, as to say Anne Cuckoo, or A. Changeling if you like. . the show was financed jointly by the local Masonic lodge (one of the oldest in Italy) and by the Catholic Action group - certainly some strange bedfellows. . admission fees were exorbitant, and the agency handling ticket sales was not allowed to sell tickets to people refusing to give full generalities and get yje tickets personally. . such agency afterwards turned out to be a front for a fantomatic 'Fontana Financial Group'; 'Fontana Group' was also the name of the front company that through the first three decades of the century lobbied to build the 'Four Seasons Fountain' in Turin - a monument with explicit Masonic undertones and 'mystical significance' according to various sources. . the Juvarra Theatre, were the show was hosted, was virtually isolated from the outside world during the representation. Two neighbouring venues were bought off so they would be closed for business on that particular night (I met a guy in a band that was scheduled to play in one of such places, that commented about being paid to cancel the gig) . on the night of the premiere, person or persons unknown entered the Turin Egyptian Museum (a few blocks away from the theatre), eluded the security systems and stole a basically worthless stone tablet portraying a man talking with a dog-headed desert demon. . the show was never reviewed in the specialist press; no copy of the script is available. So, here is the news. First - the stone tablet was 'found' ten days ago, in the sub-basement of the Egyptian Museum. Curiously enough, the place was searched when the thing had been reported stolen, but nothing was found. The idea that someone again eluded the security system just to bring back the stolen thing was jokingly proposed by one of the investigators. Or not so jokingly - 'maybe the thief was not able to sell the object'. Everyone's happy. The museum administration has confirmed that the tablet will not be put in display, but it will be again placed securely (yeah, right!) in the storage area were it spent the last 80 years (give or take a few days off, obviously). For the second time, the local newspaper published the wrong picture together with the article - a shot of a basrelief of a guy carrying a goat (?) instead of a guy kneeling and chatting it over with a ghoul. Second - the news has just been published that the old Juvarra Theatre, a national monument and a fine example of Piedmontese Baroque, will be pulled down to make place for a parking lot. The announcement was given today, once the plan had been approved by the town administration, so no amount of protest will stop the caterpillars. Nobel awardee Dario Fo, a regular of the old theatre, has been quite vocal about all this, but has been generally ignored. Meanwhile, in a delirious 'letter to the fellow citizens', our Mayor Valentino Castellani has openly admitted that (I quote) 'our town is now the domain of the dragon, and the dragon will walk the city streets these next few weeks, to swallow the town's spirit and possess the citizens'. No, the guy's not on some hard stuff - this was snipped from his opening speech for the Second Modern Art 'Biennale' in Turin, whose symbol is a blue, three-horned dragon. The beast's a wyvern, I think - it has four legs and eagle wings (guess I should have paid more attention to those old AD&D books). This being a Modern Art thing, the dragon figure is rendered as a collage of blue fishes. Daft, you say. So sais I, but then I remember that the local Masonic Lodge is in an old house, just over a tropical fishes shop (we usually call Turin Masons 'the Pet Shop Boys'). The rampant dragon is currently replacing the rampant bull (according to some a reference to the Apis Bull and the town's Egyptian origins) as the city's crest. Sure the speech wss sugestive. Expecially if you consider that the Biennale officially opened - and the dragon banner was revealed - with a 'do' (invitations only) at the now condemned Juvarra Theatre, on the same day the Egyptian tablet was found. And this is truly it, unless of course the workers on the Juvarra site find out something bad buried in the basement - or are they covering the lot with a six storeys garage just to hide what's buried there? It's good living in Italy's most haunted town. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 6:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool Greetings. Might as well add my voice to the choir.... >I must say, I love to see all this talk about OUR DARKEST HOUR, especially >since so much of it seems to be "They'll never pull it off". Truth be told, I >love a challenge. Sorry. I did not read it like that. Some of us expressed the fear that a WW2-based DG campaign (not necessarily ODH) might turn into a gunfondling wet dream gone ballistic, but you know what we old men are like at times.... >We recieved the same criticisms while COUNTDOWN was in production, endless >speculation about things which were kept pretty close to our chest and so >forth, and somehow, the book still came out alright didn't it? Again, I do not remember open criticism to Countdown prior to its publication. And very little afterwards. [snippage] >It just seems every opinion in gaming is a negative comment >or a "WELL I would have done it THIS way." Wasn't it Charles the Wise that said, had he been present on the Day of Creation, he could have given God a pair of good advices? Whatever you do, there will always be a creep that will pop up and say he'd have done it better. Talk is cheap. But again, I do not think the wild speculations that appeared on this list so far should be interpreted that way. >Again, thanks for the interest, but couldn't you give us even a little credit? >I don't think that's too much to ask. You do not need to ask. Everybody on this list is giving you credit for being the best in the field. Even if somebody says you do not publish a horror roleplaying game ;P [sorry, could not resist] >P.S> Just needed to blow off some steam... Sorry guys. Again, the fact that you take time to do so is a creditit to your commitment, and is highly appreciated. Sorry if our endless chattering contributed to the stress. Davide Mana "As a geologist, I do not believe in stress" From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Frank Frey (SOK) [ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 7:43 AM To: PaganArt@aol.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool Greetings, I agree with you Dennis. As someone who has, in a much more limited way, contributed to the gaming industry, I can sympathize with how you feel. I have both DG and DG:Countdown and have found them both to be very well done. Countdown, especially, was worth the wait. Pagan Publishing has done more to modernize the Mythos than any other publishing house that I can think of. Chaosium's efforts have had rather spotty results and SJ Games Gurps CthulhuPunk is...well...uh somewhat flawed. As for adventures in Pre-War and Wartime Germany, I've had no problem finding background for them. The biggest difference in mine is that I don't use the Karotechia(well done but a little too "pulp" for my tastes) I even ran a mini-campaign called "Shadow Dance" in which the PC's were members the Sipo(see-poh), the Reich Security Police, which was a multi-agency unit that drew from the Criminal Police(Kripo), Gestapo, and the SD (Nazi Party Security Service). This unit was officially put together by Reinhard Heydrich in 1939 but teams of Gestapo and Kripo officers had been working together since IIRC 1936. BTW, instead of Credit Rating, they had "Party Standing". As for sanity, same as everyone else. It was quite an adventure. Anyway, thanks for listening, and to the folks at Pagan: Keep up the good work. Frank Frey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad!" Salvador Dali ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Graeme Price [graemep@immagene.mcg.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 7:50 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool Dennis blew off (what we hope was) steam and wrote: >Just once though, considering our pretty solid track record, I'd like to see >someone maybe say "Pagan will pull it off." instead of "I hope Pagan doesn't >fuck it up", if you can't see the difference between the above comments, >trust me, I can. Dennis (and John, and Adam), don't worry. We all have absolute confidence in you (except, possibly, regarding german names :-)) and fully expect ODH to be yet another awesome project.... with only one slight reservation. How many volumes will it be it? I'm going to get panned for that, aren't I? Graeme graemep@immag.mcg.edu From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 8:49 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pre-War Germany In a message dated 4/11/00 6:48:29 AM Central Daylight Time, Steven writes: << you might want to check out Philip Kerr's Berlin Noir series. If memory serves, the first novel (March Violets) is set in 1936 and the second (The Pale Criminal) takes place in 1938. Of course, they're both set in Berlin, so I don't know if they'd meet your precise needs. Thanks for the tip on the books. I'll send 'em to the GM and see if he wants to do a lil reading. -Ken- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of MurfNMurf@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 9:03 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool In a message dated 4/11/00 7:31:17 AM Central Daylight Time, doctor.dee@libero.it writes: << Some of us expressed the fear that a WW2-based DG campaign (not necessarily ODH) might turn into a gunfondling wet dream gone ballistic >> The FEAR? FEAR? Hell, while I'm sure whatever adventures actually wind-up being in the book will be just _great_, _I_ want to get ahold of said book for the stats; previous communication with Pagan World HQ leading me to believe that there's going to be extensive RULES for proper, heavy, tanks and artillery, meat-grinder simulation! YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! -Ken- Who has never classified himself as a gun-fondler. But the HEavy Stuff? [Insert Tool Time ape-grunt here]. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Paul Radford [paulradford@innotts.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:15 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: re:DG: Encoding messages Where creating new languages is concerned, I have no idea how difficult it is but i do believe, if my memory serves me, that there are a growing number of Star Trek fans who are learning to speak Klingon. I think there is an ever evolving dictionary for those wanting to learn Klingon(-ese?). Someone, even if it were just the producers at Paramount, has managed to create a new language where words have meaning and not simply nonsense. Just a passing thought, Cheers, Paul From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of box_nine@ix.netcom.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:27 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: The Home Life of Agents We've talked about this to some extent before (the "agents in a restaurant with their kids" thread, but I'd like to broaden the scope. How many Keepers in their campaigns incorporate the non-DG life of their agents into their campaigns? I'm not talking about "They turned his son into a balloon animal. Now he would make them pay" family-as-hostage scenarios, but stuff like the basketball game in RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. Hanging out with friends. Vacations. Family stuff. I think fleshing out agents' home life raises the stakes, in that it gives agents something to be fighting for. It also can help counteract the 'agents as trigger-happy maniacs with no personalities' syndrome. Comments? Thoughts on how to make this work in a campaign? Steven ------------ Will probably start having dreams about balloon animals one of these days... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Juergen Hubert [snjuhube@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:31 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: The Neverending Story (Was: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Dreamfusions) Eckhard Huelshoff wrote: > > William Timmins schrieb: > > Regarding grey men... anyone here read Momo? > > > > Great novel by Michael Ende (who also wrote the also great Neverending > > Story). > AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrghghghghgh! > > Do not - I repeat: DO NOT read this book. You might end up chosing "The little > Prince" as your next book. > > This is not meant ot critisize you, Will, but I really hated this book. Be careful what you say about Michael Ende - his book "The Neverending Story" is probably the only work of German post-war literature that I could unreservedly reccommend with a straight face... ObDG: Most of the realms of Fantastica could be dropped into the Dreamlands without any changes. In fact, mabe that's what the "Fantastic Realms" are... And the "Alte Kaiser Stadt" (probably called "The City of old Emperors" or something like that in English) would be a great place to meet old friends and fellow investigators who never woke up from a coma - there they are, without any memories, and are kept busy by creating works of literature by randomly rolling dice with letters on them... And of course, the REAL book "The Neverending Story" is a Mythos tome - it allows access to the Dreamlands if the right name is uttered... - Juergen Hubert BTW, the movies suck. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Juergen Hubert [snjuhube@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 11:21 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Interesting reading John Petherick wrote: > > >The book's called "Suppressed Transmission", by Kenneth Hite, and is > >produced by Steve Jackson Games. [ISBN 1-55634-423-6]. > > I've looked at this but not picked up a copy. Every single copy that I've > seen isn't properly bound - the perfect binding wasn't glued along the > spine, so it's only a matter of time for the book to split and lose pages. That's not a bug, it's a feature - SJG's (relatively) new lay-flat binding. It really is better than the old binding - plus, you can leave the books open without putting a rock between the pages... - Juergen Hubert From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 11:38 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Home Life of Agents box_nine@ix.netcom.com schrieb: [snip] > How many Keepers in their campaigns incorporate the non-DG life of their > agents into their campaigns? I'm not talking about "They turned his son into > a balloon animal. Now he would make them pay" family-as-hostage scenarios, > but stuff like the basketball game in RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. Hanging out with > friends. Vacations. Family stuff. > > I think fleshing out agents' home life raises the stakes, in that it gives > agents something to be fighting for. It also can help counteract the 'agents > as trigger-happy maniacs with no personalities' syndrome. > > Comments? Thoughts on how to make this work in a campaign? It differs. The PCs in my campaigns, or PCs I played, usually had a very detailled background. But only few of them had the usual[?] happily-married-with-children-a-dog-and-an-own-house-background. It just does not come with the job. When your every day mission is to face the certain coming of the Endtimes, it's kind of difficult to have "normal" family life: "How was your work, honey?" "Ah, the usual. We found out about a cult praying to Shub Niggurath. Killed 5 of them, imprisoned 26 of them, but who cares, the Stars will someday be right again and mankind is doomed. What's for dinner?" Examples: One of my Players had a PC, a DEA agent, who was married and had 5 children. He tried to have a regular family life, but found it difficult to cope with the situation of not being able to tell them about what he does. One day he suffered from insanity an killed his family in order to save them from their faith. But often my players prefer to have unusual backgrounds. A good example is one of our classics: A DG-friendly Catholic priest, who, in his private life, killed prostitutes. Now he's on death row. But he still does have guest appearances. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of john ogden [goidel@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 11:52 AM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Encoding messages While it was in an X-Files episode, it is still historical fact, much like I'm told the IRA and SNLA currently use Gaelic as a code language. John Ogden >From: Jonathan Turner >Reply-To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >To: dgrpg@delta-green.com >Subject: Re: DG: Re: Encoding messages >Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:17:59 +0100 > >At 11:05 PM 4/10/00 +0100, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Michael Layne > >> Good thing they thought to encrypt it -- IIRC, Robert Heinlein, in > >one > >> of his novels ("Friday"?) mentioned the use of telepaths for secret >data > > > >The most effective encoding is surely an unknown language. We've never > >broken Linear B. And didn't the US use Navaho in WWII? > > > >That was in an X-Files episode, wasn't it? > >JT > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of James Holloway [j_holloway26@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 12:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Names >There will definitely never be a German >character called "Urnst Udel". [ Where the hell did you get that "name" >from?] Now I could be wrong about this... but I have this odd notion that names in DG are often intentionally misspelt. The only ones that spring to mind off the top of my head are "Carssandra" and "Jordon" in "Alien Intelligence," although I think some of the Russian names in the Skoptsi section might be wrong (oh, "Lavrenti" is consistently rendered "Laverti" throughout Countdown). But "Carssandra" and "Jordon" are not misspellings - they are clearly the character's names. They're just odd versions of the common spellings. Why? I don't know. I suspect it is intentional. On the other hand, someone accused Tynes's scenario in ... what was it ... one of the 90s books... of "silly name syndrome," so maybe this is another manifestation of it? Am I reading too much into this stuff? -- James Holloway "And yet in the end, for all his pains, he only knows how to play a game." - Baldesar Castiglione, "The Book of the Courtier" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of PaganArt@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 12:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Pissing in the Pool In a message dated 4/11/00 5:51:07 AM, graemep@immagene.mcg.edu writes: << Dennis (and John, and Adam), don't worry. We all have absolute confidence in you (except, possibly, regarding german names :-)) and fully expect ODH to be yet another awesome project.... with only one slight reservation. How many volumes will it be it? >> Graeme, after having our "working out the nuts and bolts" coversation about the exacting contents of the book, this comment is not as funny as it was intended to be! Gods help us! P.S. Thanks for putting up with me guys... -Dennis Who has to finish illustrating the Unspeakable Oath, a miniatures game, while wrapping up DG novel #2 at the same time. For my next trick... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 1:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Encoding messages The website of the Klingon Language Institute is http://www.kli.org. There is a postal language course available. There is a nice Klingon font available at: http://babel.uoregon.edu/yamada/fonts/klingon.html Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur On Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:15:28 +0100 Paul Radford writes: > Where creating new languages is concerned, I have no > idea how difficult it is but i do believe, if my memory > serves me, that there are a growing number of Star Trek > fans who are learning to speak Klingon. I think there > is an ever evolving dictionary for those wanting to > learn Klingon(-ese?). Someone, even if it were just the > producers at Paramount, has managed to create a new > language where words have meaning and not simply > nonsense. > > Just a passing thought, > > Cheers, > > Paul >