From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:47 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed In a message dated 4/12/00 6:51:49 AM Central Daylight Time, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > Hitler did not drink, he > did not smoke and he was even a vegetarian! [ And I will not start to list > all > the theories about Hitler's sex life, or the lack of it. ] Actually, this is incorrect. The Vegetarian rumour was spread by Hitler's inner circle; Hitler himself enjoyed sausage quite a great deal. Furthermore, Hitler had several sexual liasons, including one with his niece. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:48 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Betrayer In a message dated 4/12/00 7:50:08 AM Central Daylight Time, abel_123@hotmail.com writes: > "Agent Zaphod is gone! We should go find him!" > "Uh...later." Agent Zaphod? Of the second head and third arm? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed At 01:46 PM 4/12/00 EDT, you wrote: >Actually, this is incorrect. The Vegetarian rumour was spread by Hitler's >inner circle; Hitler himself enjoyed sausage quite a great deal. Fnar, fnar! Honk, honk!!! JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 12:54 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: The Neverending Story (Was: Re: DG: Dreamspaces & Dreamfusions) In a message dated 4/12/00 11:34:09 AM Central Daylight Time, snjuhube@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de writes: > And where in the movies is the big battle at the Ivory Tower where > Bastian is provoking a bloodbath when he tries to declare himself as > Emperor of Fantastica, and nearly kills Atreyu in anger? I tell you, the > movies left out all the good bits from the book... > I think the Translation leaves that all out, too... From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 1:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed EdDrWho@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 4/12/00 6:51:49 AM Central Daylight Time, > EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > > > Hitler did not drink, he > > did not smoke and he was even a vegetarian! [ And I will not start to list > > all > > the theories about Hitler's sex life, or the lack of it. ] > > Actually, this is incorrect. The Vegetarian rumour was spread by Hitler's > inner circle; Are you sure? >Hitler himself enjoyed sausage quite a great deal. Furthermore, > Hitler had several sexual liasons, including one with his niece. Yes I know about his affairs, but many experts and historians [ at least over here ] doubt that those affairs were fully functional sexual relations on a normal level. But even if he had relationships that were satisfying for him and even if he did eat meat, one thing is pretty sure: He wasn't a hedonist. And I find it interesting that in the real world the worst villains are rarely of the James-Bond-type that terrorize the world to maximize their private pleasures, guys that we can understand and that we adore for their grandezza. ObDG: Try a really boring arsehole as a main villain of your campaign. A leading cultists that irons his boxer shorts and handkerchiefs. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 1:38 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed In a message dated 4/12/00 1:37:14 PM Central Daylight Time, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > ObDG: Try a really boring arsehole as a main villain of your campaign. A > leading > cultists that irons his boxer shorts and handkerchiefs. What's wrong with that, I ask? From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 1:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed At 02:38 PM 4/12/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 4/12/00 1:37:14 PM Central Daylight Time, >EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > >> ObDG: Try a really boring arsehole as a main villain of your campaign. A >> leading >> cultists that irons his boxer shorts and handkerchiefs. > >What's wrong with that, I ask? > > No, no. A villain, not a hero, mate. JT BTW, Irving hasn't even been to Auschwitz, the fat pin-striped arse that he is. Galt would probably eat him. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 2:17 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Jonathan Turner schrieb: [snip] > BTW, Irving hasn't even been to Auschwitz, the fat pin-striped arse that he > is. Galt would probably eat him. Which brings the tread back on a DG track: What role could a man like Irving play for Karotechia? A useful marionette? Somebody who is in their way? Perhaps such an Irving-type finally finds out about Karotechia. What might he do? Will he try to contact them? ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Abel Lindburg [abel_123@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 1:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Betrayer astutely noted: > Agent Zaphod? Of the second head and third arm? Exposure to the mythos *changes* a man. Abel "That's not another head, its just a bad prop" Lindburg From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 2:29 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed At 09:16 PM 4/12/00 +0200, you wrote: >Jonathan Turner schrieb: >> >Perhaps such an Irving-type finally finds out about Karotechia. What might he do? >Will he try to contact them? > Ok, ObDG: (Finally, I know what it means!!) Apparently, for all the vitriolic criticism levelled at Irving, he was at some point a very gifted historical researcher. It was just that he got sucked in by the revisionists - and no, I'm not apologising for the fat Nazi-loving swine. Anyway, he's also a fluent German speaker and has extensively researched original documentation, including stuff now held in Russia. Though he never got to go to Auschwitz to see the hell for himself, as I've stated earlier. I think that such a methodical researcher would find some kind of trace of the Karotechia, even if most of the relevant documents have been hidden away by the Allies. We're not talking about Irving here, but someone like him, I guess. But he was very capable of justifying almost anything, so no doubt the fact that the Fourth Reich consists of a bunch of nutters who either worship Hitler as a diety or like to eat fat young boys wouldn't be a problem for him. And as for the use of such publicly-outspoken nutters as Irving? Simply put, he and people like him draw fire. They are public targets who attract attention and activity aimed at silencing them or proving them wrong. And while the energy of those who oppose the neo-Nazi movement is focused there, it's not directed towards tracking down the Karotechia. JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of forvalaka@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 2:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:38:23 EDT EdDrWho@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 4/12/00 1:37:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > > > ObDG: Try a really boring arsehole as a main villain of your > campaign. A > > leading > > cultists that irons his boxer shorts and handkerchiefs. > > What's wrong with that, I ask? > Interesting idea, many of Lovecraft's bad guys, like Crawford Tillingast, were originally geek scholars and such. Charles O. Baucum Jr. Mortuus non est quod in aeternum insiditur et aetate ignota mors ipsas finiretur From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 2:44 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: ODH Guys: Gotta have some of this in ODH. From a WWII mailing list I'm on that features several veterans. Must ask them about the Special K some day. No military use of a real helicopter. However, late in the war the German Navy had Fache-Achgelis Fa 330 "Bechstelt" ("Sandpiper") unpowered gyrocopters. These were carried in knocked-down form by some U-boats, and could be assembled on the after deck, and hooked to the sub by a cable which could be paid out by a winch. The forward speed of the U-boat was enough to make the rotor turn, and a crewman flew the gyrocopter (still connected to the U-boat by the cable) up to a low altitude, so that he could look for enemy activity. I believe the crewman carried a telephone, and if the sub had to crash dive, he would need to come down quickly, and the gyrocopter would be abandoned. Some of the aviation history magazines credit the gadget with having been used a little. The Gauleiter who bugged out did it in a Flettner helicopter. (Fl 225?) A few had been built. They were in an experimental phase. Prior to the war, Hannah Reich flew an early twin rotor Focke-Wulf helicopter INDOORS inside the Deutschland Halle before an audience. That's show biz! The trapped noise must have been incredible, and the exhaust fumes very bad. Bill Carmody JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 2:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed In a message dated 4/12/00 12:56:26 PM Central Daylight Time, EdDrWho@aol.com writes: << Actually, this is incorrect. The Vegetarian rumour was spread by Hitler's inner circle; Hitler himself enjoyed sausage quite a great deal. Furthermore, Hitler had several sexual liasons, including one with his niece. >> He had a weakness for sausage indeed - but was very disciplined generally eating a vegetarian diet. He was under the godawfulest pharmaceutical cornucopia prescribed by a probably insane doctor (he was probably chin-deep in the Karotechia bureaucracy) drugs would have counter effected and potentiated each other every time he swallowed another load of pills or got another injection - it's amazing he was as physcially active as he was, considering his medical condition (brought on by the insane use of drugs). He did indeed have a sexual liaison with his niece (she comitted suicide in fact under circumstances which can be described sypathetically as "suspicious". His sexuaol interests were always much younger and very submissiive - witness Eva. He was indeed a teatotaler and a non-smoker. Irving started out as a "rebel" historian - shunning academia, learning his fluent German working as a steveador in Germany. His studies of higher level Nazi's are amazing, but he has no use for "secondary" opinion (other than his own). He has translated a vast number of primary documents and is quite right in noting that there is no extant document linking Hitler to the Holocaust. He chooses to ignore the remarks of Himler, Goering and others that they were following orders from Hitler as "hearsay". He is a carbuncle on the posterior of historical academia to put it mildly, and has enough fact and suasion to make his points seem very attractive to the "fringe" revisionist. He himself is not a Nazi by any means, but he enables many neo-Nazi's by his "research". Upshot - read his work on Hitler and Goebles: it is an amazing, peek into the bureaucratic minutiae of the Third Reich. Judge for yourself whether his tendency to insist on "truth" in black and white is justified. I do not. I think iit is easy to infer the very highest levels of the Nazi Hierarchy (Hitler himself) were well aware of the murder of "untermenschen" and accepted it - even considering it be their highest calling in life and history. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:07 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed In a message dated 4/12/00 1:43:24 PM Central Daylight Time, EdDrWho@aol.com writes: << > ObDG: Try a really boring arsehole as a main villain of your campaign. A > leading > cultists that irons his boxer shorts and handkerchiefs. What's wrong with that, I ask? >> As say I. It only becomes a problem when you iron them fresh and new from the package. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:15 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Jonathan Turner schrieb: [snip] > > And as for the use of such publicly-outspoken nutters as Irving? Simply > put, he and people like him draw fire. They are public targets who attract > attention and activity aimed at silencing them or proving them wrong. And > while the energy of those who oppose the neo-Nazi movement is focused > there, it's not directed towards tracking down the Karotechia. Sounds familar: One of Germany's most influential party from the extreme right [ I'd call them neo-nazis ] is the DVU, the "Deutsche Volksunion". In Sachsen-Anhalt, an East German state [ don't forget, we have a federal system ], they managed to get into the parliament with about 20%. It's a party that follows the "Fuehrerprinzip", they have an untouchable leader called Dr. Gerhard Frey. This man is a rich publisher from Bavaria; he publishes books about the Wehrmacht, some revisionist stuff and newspapers, the most notorious is "Die Deutsche National-Zeitung" [ really frightening stuff ]. The guy is a real stinker, unsympathetic as hell. And here the conspiracy theory [ or is it a theory? ] starts: There are journalists who claim that this Dr. Frey is a puppet of the Bundesverfassungsschutz. They say that he is paid by our agency for the protection of the constitution to make right wing parties look unsympathetic. I am not convinced of this, but it is still an interesting - and inspiring - theory! ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:27 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Popeyesays@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 4/12/00 12:56:26 PM Central Daylight Time, EdDrWho@aol.com > writes: > [snip] > His sexuaol interests were always much younger and very > submissiive - witness Eva. And then there were the rumours about his relation with his female German Shepherd called Blondie.... [ snip ] > He himself > is not a Nazi by any means, but he enables many neo-Nazi's by his "research". But he is a true fan [ in the original sense of being fanatic ] of Hitler. One can really see his eyes shine when talking about him. > Upshot - read his work on Hitler and Goebles: it is an amazing, peek into the > bureaucratic minutiae of the Third Reich. Judge for yourself whether his > tendency to insist on "truth" in black and white is justified. I do not. Trying to read his work will pose a real problem for me: All his stuff is forbidden in Germany. As is "Mein Kampf". Perhaps an interesting side note: The state of Bavaria is the owner of the Copyright of that book and in the moment they are planning to sue a Czech publisher who sells both a Czech and a German version! ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Frank Frey (SOK) [ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:32 PM To: Eckhard Huelshoff Cc: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Yikes! I hope this Gerhardt Frey is NOT a distant relative of mine. My father's ancestors came from Bavaria. ObDG:Here in the US we have been plagued with "Southern Revisionist" Historians who promote "The Noble Cause". According to them, slavery played a very minor part in causing the American Civil War. Hmmm! How about a revisionist look at the Innsmouth Raid of 1928. Especially, if you a have a "historian" who is solidly anti-government and tries to make it look like an early version of Waco. Frank Frey ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The only difference between myself and a madman is that I am not mad!" Salvador Dali ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:49 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed In a message dated 4/12/00 3:38:01 PM Central Daylight Time, EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: << And then there were the rumours about his relation with his female German Shepherd called Blondie.... >> Alsatian - not German Shepherd - let's get our facts straight -after all wee are discussing David Irving are we not? His new book on Geobels is available on the web, I believe - in English of course - but you seem to do well enough! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Quiller [quiller@quiller.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 7:37 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Home Life of Agents In message , box_nine@ix.netcom.com writes >We've talked about this to some extent before (the "agents in a restaurant with >their kids" thread, but I'd like to broaden the scope. > >How many Keepers in their campaigns incorporate the non-DG life of their agents >into their campaigns? I'm not talking about "They turned his son into a balloon >animal. Now he would make them pay" family-as-hostage scenarios, but stuff like >the basketball game in RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. Hanging out with friends. Vacations. >Family stuff. > >I think fleshing out agents' home life raises the stakes, in that it gives >agents something to be fighting for. It also can help counteract the 'agents as >trigger-happy maniacs with no personalities' syndrome. > >Comments? Thoughts on how to make this work in a campaign? >Steven >------------ >Will probably start having dreams about balloon animals one of these days... > I love doing this - it adds so much depth. I like players to flesh out their characters to include family and friends, where they live, hobbies, car they drive - the lot. Then I like bringing friends and family into stories, just innocently to begin with. Role-play through a night out with the lads, maybe sort out a noisy neighbour for an elderly relative - giving the supporting cast personalities and quirks. Make juggling a home life, career and DG operations a real nightmare. But best of all, when you've given your players a real chance to get used to and like these other people in their life, then you can let the creeping horror of the mythos begin to cross over... I've seen bunch of mature players (30 somethings) be put through far more of an emotional wringer by this sort of thing than direct threats to their characters. Player: "Ok, I head home for a change of clothes and a shower before resuming the search." Keeper: "After a quiet drive home, you go up to put your key in the front door, but notice its partly open..." Player (frowning) : "I draw my Glock and push the door open." Keeper: "The hallway is empty, but a vase that sits on the telephone table is now broken on the floor, and a large pool of red liquid is seeping out from underneath the kitchen door." Steve Pritchard Business Systems Analyst Hampshire, England "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" -Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347 From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:57 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: Neverending/Dreams ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason R. Armstrong > My only enduring loves of childhood that I don't actively hate > now are the "Black Company" series, Peter Beagle's "Last Unicorn" (quit > laughing goddamnit!), and Shepard's "Life During Wartime" (a common > re-read). the first two help a lot with the integration of fantastic with > "real"; I agree with you about "The Last Unicorn" - one of the last significant original fantasy novels to arise before the great surge of popularity of Tolkien & Conan swamped the field. If you haven't read them already, might I recommend "Phantasties" and "Lilith" by George Macdonald? Worth a look. Late Victorian works, but full of powerful religious/erotic dream imagery. Thje Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:59 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed In a message dated 4/12/00 3:41:45 PM Central Daylight Time, ffreyiii@luna.cas.usf.edu writes: << Hmmm! How about a revisionist look at the Innsmouth Raid of 1928. Especially, if you a have a "historian" who is solidly anti-government and tries to make it look like an early version of Waco. >> As long as he does not exhibit the "Innsmouth look" himself, he would do very well on the "fringe" lecture circuit I am sure. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Popeyesays@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:02 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: The Home Life of Agents "Who shall watch the watchers?" Who else but the Keeper, of course. From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:18 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: DG: Re: was Encoding messages ----- Original Message ----- From: Noyes To: Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:15 AM > The utterly cool thing about all of this is that the grammar and vocabulary > developing skills needed for creolization seem to rest entirely within the > young. Its as thought there is a section of the brain that demands a certain > traits in its communication with other people. If you learn a language, any > language, then those requirements are fulfilled, and that portion atrophies > from lack of use, and you get the average person. > And one last note: Please realize that this isn't really an example of > racial memory, or some kind of natural language. Like I said, it seems more > that the brain has certain minimums that it demands from communication. > Nevertheless, I am sure that the fevered minds of the DG list can make a > DG-relevant connection from this post. > Thank You. All I knew about this was derived from reading Stephen Pinker's book "The Language Instinct". I think I gathered the point about the language itself not being encoded, but there being some sort of human grammar-generating machine or "submind" (to use a term I've applied before) that assembled it. What I wanted to lead on to was the idea of ripping this machine out of the human context, (whether or not by "fissions so adroit as not to be called surgery"), and employing it in other "contexts". Those kids made it work with sign language. So What might a mind in a Mi-Go cylinder - (perhaps a brain that had been physically manipulated to regenerate this "machine", assuming it to come from an adult) - be employed to do? Suppose the Mi-Go gave this brain only one form of "communication", and made that form useful to them? Machine control, perhaps, or their research into human "intuition"? The isolated brain is trying to organise chaotic sensations into communication. Perhaps this is on a pre-linguistic level - the level of a baby's babbling. However the Mi-Go are using the outputs of this process for purposes which have nothing to do with communication. Shades of our future in the Mythos hives? And what if it was an actual baby's brain? The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:34 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Neverending/Dreams ----- Original Message ----- From: Juergen Hubert > > I don't really recall liking the novel too much either, I am afraid to > IMO it is more of a dark fairy tale than a children's book - and perhaps > you should re-read it again now. Like I said, it's my favorite book > written by a German author... Another very good "Dreamlands" writer is Jonathan Carrol. Try "The Land Of Laughs" and "A Child Across The Sky". The GloveCleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Eckhard Huelshoff [EHuelshoff@t-online.de] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Popeyesays@aol.com schrieb: > In a message dated 4/12/00 3:38:01 PM Central Daylight Time, > EHuelshoff@t-online.de writes: > > << > And then there were the rumours about his relation with his female German > Shepherd called Blondie.... > > >> > > Alsatian - not German Shepherd - let's get our facts straight -after all > wee are discussing David Irving are we not? I am totally shattered by my ignorance. [snip] > His new book on Geobels is available on the web, I believe - in English of > course - but you seem to do well enough! 1. Thanks for the compliment. 2. Purchasing stuff like that on the web is not a good idea in Germany. Purchasing [ or possessing ] material that is considered illegal is illegal as well. And even it may not be a crime, the Bundesverfassungsschutz might start to become interested in your activities. Example: Subscribers of the most notorious right-wing-newspapers, like "Deutsche Nationalzeitung" or "Junge Freiheit" are checked and watched by the Bundesverfassungsschutz. And concerning "Mein Kampf": Nearly every major library [ at least the libraries of universities ] has a copy of it, but in "special collections" [ Doesn't us remember that of something? ]. To check it out you normally have to fill out several documents and explain your academic need to read it. And believe me, writing "hey, I need it to spice up my DG-campaign" won't work. But of course there are still many copies left from the original era. ECKHARD From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:32 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Greetings. It's Hitler Gossip Time! >> Actually, this is incorrect. The Vegetarian rumour was spread by Hitler's >> inner circle; > >Are you sure? Do not know about the vegetarian bit. In my files he was particularly fond of cream pastries. About the coke use, now, we'll have to trust the word of a guy called Benito Mussolini, who reported, quite horrified and not little disgusted, that Der Fuhrer had used cocaine in front of him during their first meeting. Apparently a totally buzzed Adolf advertised the mind-clearing efects of Colombia's most famous export with Mussolini but the Duce - coming from a country were coke was _the_ ultimate sign of the rich debauched pervert - courtly declined. The whole is in the memoir of one of Mussolini's aides. I'll try and track the source. >He wasn't a hedonist. He was a little man. >And I find it interesting that in the real world the worst villains are rarely of >the James-Bond-type that terrorize the world to maximize their private pleasures, >guys that we can understand and that we adore for their grandezza. > >ObDG: Try a really boring arsehole as a main villain of your campaign. A leading >cultists that irons his boxer shorts and handkerchiefs. Hmmmm, I once shared an apartment with a guy that did iron his ties, boxers and socks. Does that count? I guiess so, considering that I found natural describing him as a 'Little Hitler'. But I agree with the proposition - nothing's scarier than the faceless bureaucrat that can do the most incredible amounts of objective evil as a matter of routine. I tried to describe something like that in my old 'Grey Eminence' piece, but I'm still not satisfied about that. Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:40 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Neverending/Dreams Aha! >If you haven't read them already, might I recommend "Phantasties" and >"Lilith" by George Macdonald? Worth a look. Late Victorian works, but >full of powerful religious/erotic dream imagery. I second the motion - so much so, that I already suggested the the first of these two tomes a while back. Be warned - they are a bit.... heavy. And of course, you can't do wrong by checking Cabell & Eddison. Powerful fantasy, excellent anti-Tolkienoid stuff and a true inspiration for Dreamlands sequences. I was also told wonders about the fantasies of George Meredith - another victorian, whose 'Cassandra of the Crossways' and 'The Egoist' are standard feminist press fare and good reading. Apparently he wrote a few exotic pieces that disappeared wihout a trace from the XXth century. Pity! From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of EdDrWho@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:24 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Betrayer > Exposure to the mythos *changes* a man. > > Abel "That's not another head, its just a bad prop" Lindburg ObDG: Might especially devoted followers of, say, Shub-Niggerauth or one of "that crowd" (to quote Tom Lehrer) accept surgical alteration to appear more like their brethren favored with "the change" or whatever it is? Or, for that matter, accquire prosthetics? It could make things difficult for DG agents at a party. ("Yes, but which one of us is the Favored One, and not just dressed up, Agent BOND?") From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Jonathan Turner [j.turner@irishnews.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:53 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed At 11:32 PM 4/12/00 +0200, you wrote: >Do not know about the vegetarian bit. > >In my files he was particularly fond of cream pastries. Your files?! You fool! Now they know about them you'll have to burn the lot of them!! Or hide them in a slurry tank, wrapped in plastic!! JT From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Dorsey, Damon R [dadorsey@indiana.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:57 PM To: 'dgrpg@delta-green.com' Subject: DG: RE: The Home Life of Agents I've been listening in on the list for a while, and haven't had much to contribute yet since the Delta Green game I run is only a couple months old. But this is a topic I have some direct experience with, so I figured it was time to chime in. I see a lot of benefits to having characters interact with their family, be that a wife & kids, or their brothers & sisters, or even their parents. Not only does it give them something to fight for but it also helps reinforce the fact that there are people out there living mundane lives. If the players don't get to see the mundane side of the world it can quickly hurt the integrity of the game. The supernatural and bizarre is only interesting if it's clearly the exception rather than the rule . . .otherwise it just becomes, well, natural. Family can help keep the contrast alive. And while not all characters have spouses or children, most of them will have parents. Many of them will have brothers and sisters, and probably nieces & nephews. If you want characters to have a family life without having to constantly explain away week-long absences to their spouse, then these kinds of family members are a good way to go. Families can also provide an alternate source of stress to the characters. Certainly they can be used as adventure hooks: "Damn. The Deep Ones ate my sister . . .it's payback time!" But if you do too much of this the players will quickly learn not to get too attached to any NPCs. Aside from being adventure hooks, families can provide plenty of mundane stress that isn't easily resolved. There's plenty of dysfunction out there to tap into. Check out "The Sopranos" for good examples of how everyday family life can adversely affect people who are accustomed to solving their problems with guns. I think you can take this too far though, having a character quit the FBI to take care of his invalid mother will put a serious hitch in the game. I try to have a good balance in my games, with family & friends featured prominently early on to get them established. In later sessions they come and go, stepping out of or into the background as needed. The best way I've found to introduce a character's family life is to arrange for a short one-on-one game session with a player. This lets you focus on one character's family life without rushing through it or boring everybody else to tears. During one such session, I sent one character home to attend her father's funeral--a funeral being a good excuse to introduce the whole family at once. But with larger groups it may not be possible to arrange one-on-one sessions. A bonus is that family & friends offer a nice opportunity for campaign continuity should a character bite the dust. There are plenty of mythos stories where the protagonist is drawn in solely because of the mysterious death or disappearance of a friend, family member or colleague. If a character dies let the player take over his former NPC brother (or wife, or husband, or whatever) as his new character. You can get the new character into the game by having him investigate what happened to the old character. By the time they find out what happened they're in too deep to turn back. This lets the Keeper & the player continue to build on what the first character did, rather than starting over completely. Hopefully it will take some of the sting out of losing a character in a game with a fairly high mortality rate. Damon From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Davide Mana [doctor.dee@libero.it] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 4:55 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: David Irving's lawsuit failed Greetings. The following comment by Eckhard reminded me of something.... >And concerning "Mein Kampf": Nearly every major library [ at least the libraries >of universities ] has a copy of it, but in "special collections" [ Doesn't us >remember that of something? ]. To check it out you normally have to fill out >several documents and explain your academic need to read it. And believe me, >writing "hey, I need it to spice up my DG-campaign" won't work. >But of course there are still many copies left from the original era. Now, when the Mana Brothers hit the town, it's not a good day if they stay out of some of the big reminder books stores that are to be found near the university. We were in one of these big stores looking at old books when my brother turns, grins and tells me.... 'Hey, we've got Adolph Lepus at striking distance.' There was this guy, over-forty, pretty anonymous looking, wearing an overcoat and a hat. A plain anybody. He was kneeling, squatting by one of the lower shelves, browsing a red-jacketed copy of Mein Kampf. He was totally absorbed, eyes fixed on the pages, face set. Then, at irregular intervals, he simply smiled and let out agiggle, an infant sound if I ever heard one. It was _creepy_. We kept an eye on him 'till he replaced the book on the shelf and went out, serious looking and business like, disappearing in the late afternoon crowd. Later, commenting on the incident, we also came to a conclusion - through reminder booksellers, discount bookshops, book stalls in stations and what, Mein Kampf has to be one of the easiest books to find in Italy, and one of the cheapest. Now this is suggestive, eh? Davide Mana Torino, Italy doctor.dee@libero.it The Ice Cave - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/leiber/50/ice_cave.htm From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Andy Robertson [andywrobertson@clara.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 5:26 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: Re: Neverending lists of Dream Writers ----- Original Message ----- From: Davide Mana > I was also told wonders about the fantasies of George Meredith - another > victorian, whose 'Cassandra of the Crossways' and 'The Egoist' are standard > feminist press fare and good reading. Thank you, I'll check him (wasn't him a her?) out. I thought someone had mentioned "Lilith". Trust it to be you. Cabell and Eddison - both very entertaining writers, but IMHO they have the wrong "vibe" for Lovecraftian sequences. Cabell is Rabelasian/satyrical, Eddison heroical. What about - TS Eliot? "Unreal City" and all that. Apart from the poem itself, there is a deeply wierd and screwed up writer called Charles Williams who wrote a number of powerful "Supernatural fantasies". One of them starts with the heroine slowly realising she has been killed by a bomb - she is in a ghost London, very like Elliot's. The subsequent plot involves a new world religious leader who (basically) attempts to fuse this ghost London with the real world. The story is full of "Waste Land" imagery and ends with the Leader trapped in a supernatural fire/rose. Other novels in the (loosly connected) sequence involved the Tetragrammation, the Tarot, the Platonic Archetypes breaking through into reality, the Grail, and the Lilim. Williams was associated with C.S.Lewis and Tolkien but don't let that put you off - he's the pure quill. The Glove Cleaner From: owner-dgrpg@delta-green.com on behalf of Michael Layne [theherald@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 5:28 PM To: dgrpg@delta-green.com Subject: Re: DG: World War Two chemical weapons On 11 April, 2000 AD, Don Juneau had this to say about WWII Chemical Weapons & Alternate Universes: >On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Daniel Harms wrote: > > > >I have a different vague recollection about gassing Iwo Jima (or some > > >other Last Stand Fortress) and announcing that it was the result of a > > >Death Ray Secret Weapon... > > > > Aha! So YOU were the one! Amazing what you find out on this list... > >Hmmm? Did I sideslip into an alternate history again? This incarnation >enjoys noir movies, big-band music, and big ol' chrome-laden boats of >automobiles, but isn't of the correct vintage to have done this... > >Or just that Vague Recollection that I might have posted before? I >*really* wish I could remember the source... My guess is that you read of it in Stanley Lovell's book "Of Spies and Strategems", but did so years ago, and didn't remember the book itself. I've done that, myself, on occasion... Of course, I'm not ruling out an alternate timeline as the source (One where the military did not veto the suggestion of the head of the OSS' "Q Branch"). I wonder if sometimes, we apparently do slip between alternate realities... I vaguely remember hearing, in the spring of 1963, of JFK getting shot and wounded in an unsuccessful assassination attempt. Of course, that never happened (at least in this timeline), and I'm no more surprised that I can't find any record of it now, than I am that I can tell you exactly where I was when I heard of the successful assasination attempt in Dallas that November. (I was in my 4th Grade classroom, the teacher was Mrs. Johnson, and they had broadcast the radioed news as it came over the school PA system. While waiting for more news from Dallas, I checked the classroom World Book Encyclopedia (Volume "P") for information on the other US Presidents who had been assassinated...) That was many years ago (I was nine at the time), but why the recollection of the unsuccessful attempt on JFK in the spring? Misunderstanding of news of a different shooting? Alternate timeline? Michael Layne DGGF#688 theherald@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com